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- [00:01]
Paul Arbee
What is actual investing?
- [00:03]
Public.com Representative
We believe that it's a real world task to deliver thoughtful capital deployment.
- [00:07]
Paul Arbee
It's not about speculating over the short term. It's about understanding the long term opportunities for companies through technological progress or new business models.
- [00:17]
Craig Trudell
So we seek out those exploring big.
- [00:19]
Paul Arbee
New ideas that will change the world. Then we back them to give those ideas time to flourish. Bailey Gifford Actual Investors Find out more@baileygifford.com.
- [00:30]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
Introducing the all new Adobe Acrobat Studio now with AI powered PDF spaces do more with PDFs than you ever thought possible. Need AI to turn 100 pages of market research into 5 insights with a click? Do that with Acrobat. Need templates for a sales proposal that'll close that deal. Do that with Acrobat. Need an AI specialist to tailor the tone of your market report to sound real smart in real time. Do do that with the all new Adobe Acrobat Studio. Learn more@adobe.com do that with Acrobat when you own your own business, you own every decision. Now own the card that rewards you for it. Chase Sapphire, Reserved for Business is a painful card that elevates your travel experience and offers premium benefits that can take your business to the next level. Sapphire Reserve for business offers 8x points on all purchases through Chase Travel, 3x points on social media and search engine advertising, airport lounge access, and more. With over $2,500 in annual value, it's the card that gives back all you put in. Learn more@chase.com ReserveBusiness Chase for Business make more of what's yours Accounts subject to credit approval restrictions and limitations apply. Cards are issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC.
- [01:44]
Support for the show comes from public on public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in in a few clicks. Generated assets are completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com market and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com market paid for by Public.
- [02:34]
Public.com Representative
Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member Finra and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor.
- [02:43]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool.
- [02:45]
Public.com Representative
Output is for informational purposes only and.
- [02:48]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
Is not an investment recommendation or advice.
- [02:50]
Public.com Representative
Disclosures available at public.comDisclosures.
- [02:56]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News. You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 10am Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with.
- [03:10]
Public.com Representative
The Bloomberg Business app Listen on demand.
- [03:13]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
Wherever you get your podcasts or watch us live on YouTube.
- [03:17]
Paul Sweeney
Craig Trudell joins us now. Our global autos are because Tesla, which I'm sure Tesla will be at CES and active there and probably has been for well a decade and a half now, is expected to deliver a lackluster number of cars. But I don't know how much it matters at a one and a half trillion dollar valuation, Craig, I'm guessing they could deliver no cars and it wouldn't make much of a difference.
- [03:44]
Craig Trudell
Yeah, it's been fascinating to watch because I mean, just in keeping with this AI theme, you know, on one hand Tesla has had this hugely, you know, effective run of late with you know, selling investors on the notion that, you know, speaking of their vehicles are going to be able to drive themselves. On the other hand, you've seen Wall street sort of get more and more comfortable with the idea that people aren't actually, you know, all that inclined to go out and buy their, their cars. And you know, on one hand you would, you would think that, that you know, vehicle sales would kind of move in at least some correlation with the optimism about the self driving capability that Musk has been promising for years. And yet we've seen a sort of divergence here particularly I would say, you know, in the, in the second half of last year where the stock really took off. To the company's credit they did have a great third quarter but everyone saw coming that there was going to be big payback in the fourth quarter once, once tax credits in the US faded away.
- [04:46]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
So Craig, that's kind of where I wanted to go. I'd love to get your opinion as we finish out 20, 25, where is the industry? I'm talking the Volkswagens, the General Motors, the Tesla's in this transition to EVs. Are we stalled here? Are we stalled on hybrids? Are we about to just reload and reaccelerate? Where are we here?
- [05:06]
Craig Trudell
It's really a messy picture because you do have a situation where Chinese manufacturers by and large are having much less of an issue selling electric vehicles than the rest of the world. You're Seeing incumbents elsewhere in Europe and particularly in the US really struggle to make up lost ground, you know, to the likes of, of Tesla, even as Musk has come back to them a little bit. But particularly with, with those Chinese companies like BYD lately Geely as well, having quite a bit of momentum. And we've, we've seen, you know, policymakers sort of answer to this and sort of bow to this reality just in the last few weeks where, you know, in Europe you saw some softening of plans for 2035 to effectively phase out combustion engine vehicle sales. And you know, in the US we saw, you know, a really dramatic move out of Ford for them to, you know, sort of put out there that they expect to take almost $20 billion worth of charges tied to unwinding all of these EV projects. Getting rid of the F150 Lightning. It's really a messy picture for the rest of the industry.
- [06:18]
Paul Sweeney
Paul loved the F1, love the F150. I mean I loved it too. But I got to say, I feel like the GMC Sierra, which they're going to keep making, is an incredibly solid project, the Silverado as well. Therein lies the difference between US electric vehicles and Chinese electric vehicles. Like I guess there are two, right, Craigs. The Chinese subsidize this industry to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars, whereas the US administration is positioned firmly against EVs and you know, you're paying six figures for an electric vehicle. If I could buy one now, I would buy a Porsche Taycan or maybe the Sierra or maybe a Cayenne, you know, and in China you're going to pay more like $20,000 for an electric vehicle. Yeah.
- [07:03]
Craig Trudell
I think, you know, to the credit of, you know, these Chinese manufacturers, you have seen a company like BYD try to have, you know, a little, a bit of a cake and eat it to situation where to your point. Absolutely. They sell a heck of a lot of really, really cheap electric vehicles. They are also trying to go upmarket and sell, you know, sort of position actually, you know, relatively new sub brands of vehicles that are performance cars. I don't think they're by any means moving those in the sorts of volumes that you know, are in any sort of comparison to, to what they do, you know, on the lower end. But that being said, absolutely. The level of commitment that we've seen out of China to this project, we haven't seen, you know, from one administration to the next, these wild swings in sort of approach. We absolutely have seen that.
- [07:59]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
Stay with us more from Bloomberg Intelligence Coming up after this.
- [08:04]
Paul Arbee
What is actual Investing?
- [08:06]
Public.com Representative
We believe that it's a real world task to deliver thoughtful capital deployment.
- [08:11]
Paul Arbee
It's not about speculating over the short term. It's about understanding the long term opportunities for companies through technological progress or new business models.
- [08:20]
Craig Trudell
So we seek out those exploring big.
- [08:22]
Paul Arbee
New ideas that will change the world. Then we back them to give those ideas time to flourish. Baillie Gifford Actual Investors Find out more@baileygifford.com.
- [08:34]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
Support for the show comes from public on public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com market and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com market paid for by Public.
- [09:24]
Public.com Representative
Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and.
- [09:37]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
Is not an investment recommendation or advice.
- [09:39]
Public.com Representative
Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures these days it seems like AI agents are just about everywhere you turn every field and every function. But without identity, you can't trust they'll serve your business instead of jeopardizing it. Fortunately, Okta helps you get identity right by securing your AI agents identities, giving you a single layer of control, a single standard of trust. So whether an AI agent supports a single user or your entire enterprise, with Okta you'll turn risk into opportunity. Secure every agent. Secure any agent. Okta secures AI so have you heard the story about the prescription plan? With savings automatically built in, it's where a family of any size can feel confident the cost of their medication won't hold them back. Go to CMK Co Stories to learn how CVS Caremark helps members save just by being members. That's CMK Co Stories.
- [10:40]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 10am Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.
- [10:49]
Public.com Representative
Listen on demand.
- [10:50]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
Wherever you get your podcasts or watch us live on YouTube.
- [10:55]
Paul Sweeney
Ford Motor Company with probably the news of the year from an American automaker. $20 billion write down. It's just absolutely massive, especially if you add it on to the billions of dollars in write downs. They've already taken on the EV business. Let's bring in Aaron Keating right now. Cox Automotive. She has been covering this industry for years and has been a guest on my podcast. Oh, Bloomberg Hot Pursuit with Elliot. Aaron, what do you think about the move by Ford? Because they have been really spectacularly unsuccessful with EVs at the same time General Motors has. I can't even count how many they've got the Hummer, they've got the Sierra, the Silverado, they got the Chevy Bolt, they've got the Equinox, they've got the Chevy Blazer, they've got all the Cadillac EVs. Like the list goes on and on and on. Such an incredibly broad offering. Are they losing the same amount of money as Ford was on their Lightning and Mach E?
- [11:54]
Aaron Keating
Well, first of all, it's always great to see you, Matt. Thank you for having me. Hi Paul. As you can tell, I'm one of the sufferers of the cold and illness that came through the holidays. But yes, I mean, GM does have the breadth and depth of the EV lineup, so they've been able to diversify the cost across a pretty broad set of vehicles that are available on the market. So sure, they've also noted that they've taken some hits from having to build out their electrified portfolio, but certainly not anything on the level of what Ford has had to do because they've had such limited vehicles that have been available, whether it's the Mach E or the Ford F150 Lightning. And the Lightning honestly just didn't do as well as they expected it to do. And so, you know, as they say, even when we're talking about tariffs, the more product you have to spread that cost across, across, you know, the better you're off. You're going to be moving into the future and GM seem to have nailed it as far as having some models that were really attractive to people at good price points.
- [12:49]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
That's where I wanted to go. Aaron, affordability, some of the numbers we hear out there on the average cost of a new car, just staggering for most people. What can the industry do, if anything, to address that affordability issue?
- [13:01]
Aaron Keating
I mean, honestly, here's the deal. We talked about this a little bit in our fourth quarter. Call the cars, you know, the price of vehicles. Yes, they've gone up and we really experienced that huge spike during the pandemic which kind of level set us at this new call it average transaction price of $50,000 per car. But we are seeing people generally buy more expensive vehicles, the bigger vehicles. So somewhat of this is consumer choice. They're preferring the larger, more expensive vehicles. And another big story is is the interest rates. I mean this is a no brainer. We have, we've nearly come back to what about 36 weeks of income it costs to purchase a car now back in 2013 that was 33 weeks of income. But what' changed over all of these years is that the interest rate has doubled and so that people are extending their loans. You know they're getting, we've heard the 100 month loan now. So they're not paying less, they're paying longer and in fact they're paying more in interest over time. But the automotive companies, I think, you know how Ford's talking about how they're trying to watch their costs make better decisions on more profitable models, that's going to help them to at least keep costs down or at least stabilize so that pricing will, won't continue to go on some sort of stratospheric rise. But we are going to continue to see normal inflationary pressures on cars just like we see on any other consumer good.
- [14:21]
Paul Sweeney
By the way, reminds me, I was in a, I was in a Dodge dealer last week getting some new shoes on my Dodge Challenger Scat pack Widebody of course.
- [14:30]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
How's that, how's that doing?
- [14:31]
Paul Sweeney
The naturally Hemi and I saw that they were offering 0% APR on a 36 month financing for their, for their trucks. Obviously that's going to be a high payment for the short duration. But are you seeing Aaron, more companies, car car carmakers finance arms eat it for the consumer to give them lower interest rates.
- [14:54]
Aaron Keating
To be fair, I think most of those finance deals are coming in for the well heeled consumers. I mean this is the other thing that we talk about in the automotive market is the bifurcated market. Right. So it's usually the higher income individuals that are actually feeding our new vehicle market in the first place. And those are the individuals that are going to have better credit ratings and are likely getting a lot more of those deals. So would I say that the financial arms are eating it? They were certainly when it came to electric vehicles, I think that they're likely finding mostly well heeled consumers that are able to take advantage of those types of deals. And we're still seeing the lower Income quintile. Just stay out of the new vehicle market. Head towards the used vehicle market as they traditionally have. And I think we're seeing we're just eating into some more of those. Customers who may have had a chance in the past to enter that new vehicle market are just having to shop down into used vehicles.
- [15:44]
Paul Sweeney
By the way, I saw there a RAM with, with the big Hemi that's coming back, thank goodness. And Ford, you know they have this blue oval city or what do they call it in Tennessee. They were going to build their next electric truck there. Now I'm guessing it's going to be a steel bodied Ford Classic with the big 6.2 liter V8. Bring that back, bring that back. Maybe a stick shift. What do you, what do you expect?
- [16:06]
Aaron Keating
What wouldn't we love a stick shift. We talk about this all the time. Matt, your knowledge of cars always amazes me. I do think that they' to continue to look at, yes, absolutely. What has sold in the past, what continues to be popular with the American consumer, How do they maintain their base? I think the big question for the future is just going to be where are we losing those entry level customers and will that be hurting us in a few years from now? It won't hurt us now. We're going to still have the consumers be able to get into the market in the cars that they like or I should say vehicles because we really have very few cars. But are some of the automakers starting to work their way out of that entry level vehicle in the future?
- [16:42]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this. Support for the show comes from public on public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you backtest it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com market and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com market paid for by Public.
- [17:38]
Public.com Representative
Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool output is for informational purposes only and is.
- [17:51]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
Not an investment recommendation or advice.
- [17:53]
Public.com Representative
Complete disclosures available@public.com disclosures these days it seems like AI agents are just about everywhere you turn, every field and every function. But without identity, you can't trust they'll serve your business instead of jeopardizing it. Fortunately, Okta helps you get identity right by securing your AI agents identities, giving you a single layer of control, a single standard of trust. So whether an AI agent supports a single user or your entire enterprise, with Okta you'll turn risk into opportunity. Secure every agent. Secure any agent. Okta secures AI so have you heard the story about the prescription plan? With savings automatically built in, it's where a family of any size can feel confident the cost of their medication won't hold them back. Go to CMK Co Stories to learn how CVS Caremark helps members save just by being members. That's CMK Co Stares the Chase Inc.
- [18:53]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
Business Premier card is made for business owners who make things happen. Designed for high spend and limitless cash back, Inc. Business Premier is a painful card with built in flexibility. Get the buying power you need to make large purchases, cover unexpected expenses and help your business grow. Earn a total of 2.5% cash back on every purchase of $5,000 or more, plus earn unlimited 2% cash back on every other purchase, giving you unlimited earned potential to invest cash back into your business. From innovation and technology to everyday expenses, Inc. Business Premier is the only business credit card with 2.5% cash back on every purchase of $5,000 or more and is part of a suite of credit cards from Chase for Business designed to meet your needs every step along the way. Learn more@chase.com businesscard Chase for Business Make More of what's Yours Accounts subject to credit approval restrictions and limitations apply. Cards are issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC. You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 10am Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with.
- [20:01]
Public.com Representative
The Bloomberg Business app Listen on Demand.
- [20:03]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
Wherever you get your podcast or watch us live on YouTube.
- [20:08]
Paul Sweeney
Let's stick with energy, but get into nuclear because AI data centers have been driving obviously a surge in demand for power. And Centrist Energy says it's expanding its uranium enrichment manufacturing in the great state of Ohio, calling it a consequential transformation. We have the CEO of Centris joining us now, Amir Vexler. So Amir, first off, tell us Big picture. Like Dan Ives always says, demand for AI is 12 to 1 compared to the amounts of chips out there. I'm not sure exactly what he means. But what about demand for power? How high is it compared to what we can supply now?
- [20:48]
Amir Vexler
Well, good morning everyone. Yeah, so we, from our perspective, for those of you who are not familiar with Centris, Centris is a uranium enrichment company. Most of the nuclear reactors in the world require uranium enrichment. We are the only American technology, American owned company and we're the only ones that are not majority state owned. To your question about energy, it has been really quite fascinating to watch what has happened in the past year. The demand has been hugely associated with the eye. But let's not forget the demand out there for nuclear fuel and what we're dealing with. For us, AI is just a top up. I mean, we have a base case assumption that really majority of it does not include AI growth. We're seeing a lot of commercial nuclear growth and we're seeing a lot of growth in national security in the United States and a lot of demand for enrichment of uranium. For that.
- [21:51]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
Amir, President Trump signed an executive order in May calling for the US to speed up production of enriched uranium. Are you seeing that practically in the marketplace these days? Is that impacting your business?
- [22:03]
Amir Vexler
Oh, absolutely. I think one of the best things that happened to us in the recent history is the focus that the President in fact has put on the uranium enrichment side of the fuel cycle. It is the largest constraint in my view, in the entire fuel cycle and the ability to, to power the existing reactors and the future reactors. And so absolutely we see a lot of activity, so much so in that we have announced a few weeks ago that we are commencing the construction fabrication of uranium centrifuges in our facility in Ohio. And by the way, we, sorry, in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, by the way, we're headquartered in Bethesda and we operate two plants, one in Tennessee and one in Ohio where the enrichment is done. And I'm here for the holidays in Toronto. So you see the beautiful skyline of Toronto right behind me. But we are based out of Bethesda and the United States.
- [23:00]
Paul Sweeney
Why choose my home state of Ohio? You're located right there. Like if I'm driving from Columbus past Chillicothe down to Ashland, you're right in the middle there in Piketon. Why did you choose that location?
- [23:13]
Amir Vexler
We go way back in that facility. That facility was originally constructed for a demonstration program of some of the centrifuges that we worked on with the Department of Energy. I mean, the ability of somebody to get into the uranium business, the uranium enrichment business, the Barriers to entry is almost insurmountable. So I mean, that's a great question. I mean, we've been working on our technology for decades in collaboration with the Department of Energy and that was one of the original facilities where we have installed installed some of our demo cascades and centrifuges. In the past two years we have built a demo cascade that has been producing Hailu, which is a high assay low enriched uranium. It's a slightly more enriched uranium that is meant to power advanced reactors. And that's where we've been operating that cascade from. That's where we've been enriching it from. So our huge build out is going to happen in that facility. Not sure I can exactly answer why Ohio was picked for that. But we love the area, we have some real talent in that area and we're able to attract some real talent in Tennessee as well.
- [24:25]
Paul Sweeney
I mean, I was just wondering if. I was just wondering if the Scioto river has anything to do with it because it runs right through Piketon there.
- [24:32]
Amir Vexler
That's a good question. I may have to consult with some of the historians in the company.
- [24:37]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
Hey, Amir, one technology that's got my attention here as we think about powering this AI revolution is small modular reactors, small nuclear reactors. Talk to us about that technology and what do you think of it?
- [24:52]
Amir Vexler
My personal opinion is it is exciting. I think it's fantastic. There's a lot of companies here in the United States that are developing really exciting new technologies to make the reactors more efficient, more productive, safer. My personal opinion is it really does not matter to Centrist. Centris is obviously cheering everybody on. We want large reactors to win, we want small reactors to win, we want advanced reactors to win. But at the end of the day, the enrichment will be required for that growth. Maybe more specifically to your question, I would love to see a world where we have a real balanced build out of large reactors. And I think you heard President Trump announce that there's going to be build out of the Westinghouse AP1000s. And we're also hearing that there's quite a few advanced reactors, small modular reactor companies that are very close to demonstrating their capability and being able to start putting power on the grid and not too long from now. So my personal view is it's exciting where it comes from. It matters not to Centrist. We're cheering everybody on.
- [26:00]
Paul Sweeney
Amir, what about transportation? I'm just curious about the logistics. I'm sure you don't put it in the back of an F150 and truck it off to Three Mile Island. So how do you move enriched uranium around?
- [26:12]
Amir Vexler
Yeah, so it depends on what state the enriched uranium is in. Typically post enrichment activities it is in uranium hexafluoride state which is sort of like a gaseous form. And this is so tightly regulated by the NRC and the dot. There are licensed containers that are designed and have been tested in a series of stress tests to make sure that all transportation of uranium is done safely and the public is protected. And quite honestly, this the transportation is very standard. It's been happening for decades and decades now and it's been happening in Maritimes. It's been happening on the roads and highways and on rails. It's a licensed activity and there's licensed containers that have been tested and stress tested for that.
- [27:03]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this. Support for the show comes from public on public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com market and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com market paid for by Public.
- [27:58]
Public.com Representative
Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and.
- [28:12]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
Is not an investment recommendation or advice.
- [28:14]
Public.com Representative
Complete disclosures available@public.com disclosures these days it seems like AI agents are just about everywhere you turn, every field and every function. But without identity, you can't trust they'll serve your business instead of jeopardizing it. Fortunately, Okta helps you get identity right by securing your AI agents identities, giving you a single layer of control, a single standard of trust. So whether an AI agent supports a single user or your entire enterprise, with Okta you'll turn risk into opportunity. Secure every agent, secure any agent. Okta secures AI. So have you heard the story about the prescription plan with savings automatically built in? It's where a family of any size can feel confident the cost of their medication won't hold them back. Go to CMK Co Stories to learn how CBS Caremark helps members save just by being members. That's CMK Co Stories.
- [29:13]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
The Chase Inc. Business Premier card is made for business owners who make things happen. Designed for high spend and limitless cash back, Inc. Business Premier is a painful card with built in flexibility. Get the buying power you need to make large purchases, cover unexpected expenses and help your business grow. Earn a total of 2.5% cash back on every purchase of $5,000 or more, plus earn unlimited 2% cash back on every other purchase, giving you unlimited earned potential to invest cash back into your business. From innovation and technology to everyday expenses, Inc. Business Premier is the only business credit card with 2.5% cash back on every purchase of $5,000 or more and is part of a suite of credit cards from Chase for Business designed to meet your needs every step along the way. Learn more@chase.com businesscard Chase for Business Make More of what's Yours Accounts subject to credit approval restrictions and limitations apply. Cards are issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC. You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 10am Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts or watch us live on YouTube.
- [30:29]
Paul Sweeney
Let's talk now about one of the biggest, biggest deals of 2025, or at least I guess agreed to deal hasn't been closed obviously yet, and that's the battle over Warner Brothers. Paul, this is one you've followed closely. Have you? By the way, have you bought or sold Warner Brothers yourself?
- [30:45]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
I did with AOL paper back in 2000. 2001.
- [30:48]
Paul Sweeney
I knew you'd been involved in that. And I love this deal also because it's one that President Trump had previously killed. Remember when AT and T. Yep. Wanted to buy Warner Brothers.
- [31:01]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
He's got an interest in it now.
- [31:02]
Paul Sweeney
It appears he said no. The doj, they sued. They sued the DOJ and they actually got it done. But then, then AT and T was like wait, this was a bad idea. So then they got rid of it and now it's up for grabs again. Netflix. That was the agreed deal to buy Warner Brothers. Paramount, of course, in with the with the hostile offer. So let's talk about how this works out, how it changes the media landscape, the future of streaming, bundling, movies, et cetera. Paul Arbee joins us to break it down. He's the CEO of Bango Bango is a global tech company that enables providers to reach more paying customers through global partnerships. I guess that's corporate speak. I looked on the website and I guess I could just. Paul, tell me about this. I could go to you and say, I want this, that and the other streaming service. You bundle it for me and I just pay you.
- [31:52]
Paul Arbee
Yeah, not directly through us. I mean, in fact, we enable other brands to do that. So if you're a Verizon customer, for example, and you're getting Netflix and HBO Max together as part of a package, we're the technology that provides that. So we enable anybody who has a subscription service like Netflix or even through to AI based services to basically resell it through a channel. And our product for that is called the digital vending machine. And so we're that technology partner that sits in the middle. So most people will be using us, but without actually having heard of who we are.
- [32:16]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
Paul, what do people like yourselves in the industry, in the media industry, in the streaming business? How are you guys viewing this Warner Brothers potential deal going on out there?
- [32:28]
Paul Arbee
Yeah, I think it's really interesting. I think certainly the streaming landscape potentially brings together the first and the fourth largest streaming service. And that can sound quite dominating. But actually if you look at the number of streaming services we have, it actually potentially solves a customer down. You know, something like 30% of people have four or more different video streaming services and if you watch sports, then you probably have five or six because those tend to be more spread across different services. And all our Bangor data shows that customers are crying out for simplification and consolidation. And that's sort of what we've been doing. So in some ways bringing these two together makes a lot of sense for a consumer perspective. I think it needs to sort of be put in perspective.
- [33:06]
Paul Sweeney
Right.
- [33:06]
Paul Arbee
We're bringing these two together. The question is sort of what follows after that? Because I like the last thing we want to do is recreate and in fact what Netflix disrupted, which was that big cable TV package. So you don't want to end up with one streaming services that is so expensive. It just looks like the cable packages used to look like sort of five or ten years ago.
- [33:22]
Paul Sweeney
By the way, if you were Paul in charge of the FTC and you had to look at the streaming universe, obviously Netflix and HBO and prime are in there. Would you also include YouTube and Instagram and what's the Chinese one? TikTok? Would you include all those as well?
- [33:42]
Paul Arbee
Yeah, for sure. And I think the media landscape is traditionally evolving and we've talked about things like the death of sort of live TV for some, for some time now. And live TV has really become now to a point where it's sort of news, big social events, where maybe there's a voting element, something like, you know, the Oscars or the Golden Globe Awards or sport, and really sort of really live TV sort of relegated down to those. And the people that have really will survive in this media landscape are the people that embrace these sort of changes. And likewise, we've seen the evolution of sort of short form content that can sit alongside some of the more well produced, longer form sort of content. So the companies are going to survive in this, really are all sort of coming together. And it's really the innovative ones that adopt the live events that make sense, the short form content alongside the more traditional video entertainment content, you know, content that are basically the companies that will ultimately survive and be successful. And I think that's where Netflix have shown sort of great innovation in sort of bringing all these different elements together.
- [34:37]
Paul Sweeney
Do you worry, Paul, about movie theaters all going broke because everything gets streamed and kids just consume content on their tiny little screens in their bedrooms with the door double locked so mom and dad don't come in? I mean, what about the big screen?
- [34:55]
Paul Arbee
Yeah, no, I think that's an interesting thing. And Netflix historically have gone for sort of more niche or limited cinema releases to get sort of prestige or to qualify for sort of awards. I know they've committed to extending and not taking all of the new content, should the acquisition be successful, directly to streaming and still preserving those theatrical releases. But I think actually the theatrical industry has to sort of reinvent itself. It has to create more of an experience, not just be about seeing something on a slightly bigger screen in a slightly different seat. It needs to, it needs to reinvent itself and create that experience. And I think if it does that, there'll always be a place for it. Right. It's a very, it's much more of a social element. And so I think it's a case of just adjusting the experience.
- [35:32]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
Paul, let's talk about big, big time sports. I'm talking NFL sports, I'm talking English Premier League. The stuff that really moves the needle is that programming in size going to move to streamers.
- [35:46]
Paul Arbee
Yeah. I think what we've seen is ultimately it's become fragmented, so it's becoming more and more different places right now. And I think that's a challenge for the consumer. And there's a question of, you know, if you're a, if you're a massive fan. How many, how many of these sporting services are you willing to sign up for to see the complete season? And I think we'll, we'll get to a point pretty soon where we're sort of a breaking point. And certainly our research has shown that if you're a sports fan, you probably have an extra two or three different subscription services purely to get your entire sports, whether that be NFL or whether that be soccer, just so you can see the full elements. So I think it actually will, you know, it actually will for sure evolved to the streaming. The streaming players will be involved. I think that then becomes a question of how many players are really sustainable, you know, how many, how many people can you divide a single season between before, you know, customers just get turned off?
- [36:28]
Paul Sweeney
Yeah, I would think, I would think sports fans are just unhappy people right now. Because you know what, when we were kids, Paul, you could watch all of the greatest sports on your free over the air broadcast television. And now it's just impossible. Possible.
- [36:44]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
No. So it's, that's why everybody's, that's why if you're Paramount, this is a have to do deal. If it's Netflix, it's a nice new deal, but if you're Paramount, you got to own one.
- [36:54]
Paul Sweeney
What does David Zaslav do here, Paul? I mean, this is a guy who, I mean, when he changed HBO's name to Max, he looked like a chump, but right now he looks like an absolute hero.
- [37:05]
Paul Arbee
Yeah, you know, that was one of those brands that sort of came and went, wasn't it?
- [37:08]
Paul Sweeney
Right?
- [37:08]
Paul Arbee
We're back to, we're back to, back to, to where we started. But I think there's, I think there's, you know, there's a great library of content there. And I think having a distribution partner like Netflix, you can take that content and those brands to market, I think is a really, really powerful combination. It sort of creates a sort of question of what's left with the cable assets that are left and what's the, what's the value that's, that's placed on those. But I think it's a, it's a great outlet for some, some great brands that we all know and love.
- [37:33]
Bloomberg Intelligence Host
This is the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast, a available on Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you get. Your podcasts listen live each weekday 10am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg.com, the iHeartRadio app, TuneIn, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live Every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal.
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