Bloomberg Surveillance TV: July 30th, 2026

Summary

Bloomberg Surveillance TV: July 30th, 2026 – Episode Summary

Main Theme:
This episode delves into the financial market’s response to the latest Federal Reserve communications under new Chair Kevin Wash, focusing on inflation-fighting credibility, surging bond yields, market uncertainty, and the wider economic and geopolitical context—especially energy markets and global conflicts.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Fed Chair Kevin Wash’s Communication & Market Credibility [02:45–04:35]

• Issue: 30-year bond yields spike to their highest since 2007 as investors question Fed Chair Kevin Wash’s ability to communicate a clear and credible inflation-fighting stance.
• Barbara Reinhart (Guest, Barbi Reinhart, VP Investment Management):
  • Critiques Wash’s communication blunder: “He's falling into the same trap that so many Fed chair people fall into when they take the role. And it's a communication blunder. It's sending the wrong signals to the market. And this is what we were worried about with a new Fed chair coming in.” [03:00]
  • Worries over market nerves and a potential credibility issue, drawing parallels to Jerome Powell’s early missteps.
  • Notes that inflation is likely to roll over, but “it may not be fast enough to stop... more equity market weakness as a result of bond yields climbing.” [03:35]

2. Probability of Future Fed Rate Hikes [03:52–04:35]

• Jonathan Ferro:
  • Brings up the view from Bank of America that “the need to re-establish credibility increases the probability of a hike in September.” [03:52]
• Barbara Reinhart:
  • Disagrees, expecting softer inflation data and sees the market potentially doing the Fed’s “work for it.”
  • Critiques lack of forward guidance, adding to investor uncertainty.

3. Tech Stocks and Policy Risk [04:35–05:45]

• Annmarie Hordern:
  • Explores how credibility questions could impact tech stocks, which are “higher duration assets” exposed due to large capital expenditures.
• Barbara Reinhart:
  • Highlights tech’s cash flow burn—hyperscalers spending big on CapEx without immediate productivity gains from AI.
  • Points to late-cycle behaviors: net equity issuance rising, buybacks and mergers only just offsetting supply.

4. Credit vs. Equity: Changing Risk/Reward [05:45–06:35]

• Discussion:
  • The dynamics may now favor bonds over tech equities.
  • Barbara explains that investment-grade (IG) credit spreads have started to weaken (wider by about 10 basis points), necessitating careful credit analysis, especially with off-balance sheet deals in big tech.

5. Market Internals, Sentiment, and Political Risks [06:35–07:39]

• Barbara Reinhart:
  • Notes the S&P 500 dropped below its 50-day moving average.
  • “30% bulls, 42% bears” among individual investors – sets the stage for potential countertrend rallies.
  • Flags upcoming midterm elections and global uncertainty (esp. Middle East) as looming risks for markets.

6. Geopolitics: Middle East Conflict and Energy Prices [07:39–08:09]

• Geopolitical tensions in the Middle East (strikes spreading, Egypt, Black Sea incidents) are drawing attention, primarily due to their impact on oil prices:
  • “The price of oil is going to hit consumers’ pockets… gasoline, jet fuel…” [07:39]
  • Concerns over “fatigue” among the public and need for focus back on domestic policy.

7. Market Correction, Earnings, and Fed’s Dilemma [08:21–09:13]

• Barbara Reinhart:
  • Markets remain “healthy” with strong earnings and sales growth, but have yet to experience a typical 10% correction.
  • Ongoing uncertainty, especially related to Fed policy and AI-hyped tech names, prevents a more stable bottom.

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8. Energy Markets & Refining Crisis [11:35–16:20]

Refining Margins and Oil Dynamics

• Paul (Refining Expert):
  • “Refiners here… running at 96% utilization. That margin is absolutely massive in terms of profitability. Wholesale gasoline is $140 a barrel. Brent is at $90. That’s a $70 refining margin. That tells you the tightness is in the refining system.” [11:53–12:40]
• Risk Factors:
  • High utilization rates, hurricane season, and El Niño raise risks of supply disruptions.
  • Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPRO) is depleting rapidly, likely running out around September, with unknown technical limits.

Product Vulnerabilities

• Jet fuel crisis avoided due to improved refining yields.
• Gasoline inventories “way below the bottom of the range” as refiners favor jet and diesel. [12:55]
• Disagreement exists on how much oil is actually left in the SPRO; technical uncertainties abound.

Global Oil Flow & Geopolitics

• Paul (Refining Expert):
  • UAE exports have increased during the crisis due to sophisticated trans-shipment through the Strait of Hormuz.
  • The Russia-Ukraine conflict is destabilizing markets—the region has become “World War 3.”
    • “Ukraine is now a drone superpower… they’re trashing Russia. I don’t know how much longer Russia can handle this.” [16:20]

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9. Fed Policy and Forward Guidance Debate [18:24–24:07]

Fed Chair Wash’s Performance and Impact

• Jim Bullard (Former St. Louis Fed President):
  • “Unfortunately, I thought it [the press conference] was a little bit rocky…higher yields in the 30 year are, you know, kind of nerve wracking for a central banker… He needed to do more to create optionality in September and he didn’t do very much of that.” [19:07]
  • Notes missteps in signaling, a perceived erosion of credibility, and the risk markets now feel the Fed is less willing to act.

Market Interpretation and Forward Guidance

• Bullard:
  • Explains the difference between true forward guidance and simply providing a “reaction function.”
  • Wash seems to want less specific advance signaling, putting more weight on market data and less on explicit Fed action—a shift that may be jarring for markets.
• Annmarie Horden:
  • Highlights the confusion around Wash’s comments, wondering if the market is conflating a lack of forward guidance with a lack of clear reaction framework.

Prospects for Rate Hikes and Inflation

• Bullard:
  • “I would have preferred that he say we’re ready to move… Markets didn’t like that… a bit of erosion of credibility… It can all be managed, but unfortunately it was a little bit rocky.” [23:22]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Barbara Reinhart:

  • “He’s falling into the same trap… communication blunder… it’s sending the wrong signals to the market.” [03:00]
  • “You do have the underlying strength of the equity market… but we haven’t had a 10% correction in quite some time.” [08:40]

• Paul (Refining Expert):

  • “Wholesale gasoline is $140 a barrel. Brent is at $90. That’s a $70 refining margin. That tells you the tightness is in the refining system.” [12:00]
  • “Ukraine is now a drone superpower… they’re trashing Russia. I don’t know how much longer Russia can handle this.” [16:20]

• Jim Bullard:

  • “He [Wash] needed to do more to create optionality in September and he didn’t do very much of that…a bit of erosion of credibility.” [19:07, 23:22]
  • “I would characterize interest rate policy in the US as being partly the Fed and partly the market. He wants that back to dial that back to 50% or something like that.” [20:48]

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Fed Chair Wash’s Credibility & Market Impact: 02:45–04:35
• Tech Trade & High Yields: 04:35–05:45
• Credit vs. Equity Dynamics: 05:45–06:35
• Market Internals, Sentiment, and Political Risk: 06:35–07:39
• Geopolitics & Oil Prices: 07:39–08:09
• Refining Margins & Energy Crisis: 11:35–16:20
• Fed Policy, Forward Guidance, and Rate Hike Prospects (Jim Bullard): 18:24–24:07

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Summary Takeaways

• Bond yields are testing highs as Wall Street reacts to mixed messages and credibility doubts from new Fed leadership.
• Tech stocks face pressure from both macro (Fed, yields) and industry-specific (CapEx, AI hype) uncertainties.
• Energy markets remain volatile—with refining bottlenecks, shrinking reserves, global supply disruptions, and ongoing conflict in the Middle East and Ukraine presenting heightened risks.
• The Federal Reserve’s evolving communication strategy—less forward guidance, more data dependence—is unsettling markets, sparking debate among policymakers and investors.
• Underlying market and economic strength exist, but persistent uncertainty from Fed leadership, politics, and global flashpoints raise the risk of further volatility.

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This episode offers a deep dive into how policy missteps, energy shocks, and geopolitical turmoil are creating an atypical and treacherous market environment for investors, with sharp insights from leading market participants and former policymakers.

Transcript

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This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast Joe I'm Jonathan Ferro along with Lisa Abramowicz and Annmarie Horden. Join us each day for insight from the best in markets, economics and geopolitics. From our global headquarters in New York City, we are live on Bloomberg Television weekday mornings from 6 to 9am Eastern. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify or anywhere else you listen. And as always, on the Bloomberg Terminal and the Bloomberg Business App.

[Jonathan Ferro]

We begin this hour with the Bond Market questioning Fed Chair Kevin Washes inflation fighting credibility sending 30 year bond yields to the highest level since 2007 Barbara Reinhart avoided Investment Management joins us now for more. Barbara, good morning.

[Karen Moscow]

Good morning.

[Jonathan Ferro]

What was your reaction to that yesterday afternoon?

[Karen Moscow]

Look, he's falling into the same trap that so many Fed chair people fall into when they take the role. And it's a communication blunder. It's sending the wrong signals to the market. And this is what we were worried about with a new fair share person coming in is that equity markets are going to get nervous. You know, you saw the same thing with Jerome Powell. There was an 18% correction within the S&P 500 when he said we're a long way from neutral. A very offhanded remark. And I think you do have a credibility issue at this point. So the Fed's going to need to either get inflation under control or the bond market is going to do it for it. And we do see on some of our forward looking indicators that inflation should be rolling over. Income growth is starting to slow, consumer spending is starting to slow. But the fact is is it may not be fast enough to stop. Probably more equity market weakness as a result of bond yields climbing.

[Jonathan Ferro]

Lots of reaction coming from Wall Street. One of my favorite takes came from Aditya Barfe of Bank of America Daft and and he said the following. We think the need to re establish credibility increases the probability of a hike in September to agree.

[Karen Moscow]

Well I think the inflation data is going to come in a lot softer. So all of our forward inflation indicators are rolling over at this point. So the market may indeed do some of the Fed's work for it, which is what wash was confusing the markets about yesterday. I think this lack of forward guidance is coming at a particularly bad time and I think that this kind of pulling back and relying on some of these task forces, while it's a great idea in theory, the execution of it seems a little bit murky at this point, which I think is also confusing the bond market given some of the

[Annmarie Horden]

confusion and concerns around a lack of credibility that the Fed's going to follow through and anchoring inflation expectations. Do you think that that puts the tech trade more at risk considering that it's a higher duration asset increasingly as a result of its CapEx plans?

[Karen Moscow]

Well, I think we've got two things going on. So number one, the tech trade is really as a result of the hyperscalers burning through their cash flow, not slowing down on their capex spending. Eventually the memory shortage is going to get resolved with more memory so there's this concern that you got this big cash flow burn with the tech stocks. You're not seeing the big productivity lifts from AI just yet, although we all use it in our day to day lives and are finding it to be incredibly helpful. I think that you've got this concern that they're burning through so much cash flow and additionally this equity supply that's hitting the market is really big and the buybacks and the mergers are just beginning to offset it. This is the first time since 2000 in this year that you're going to see net equity issuance and net equity demand kind of coming out of it. So buybacks and also mergers really being even. So it's a lot to hit the tech at the tech trade at this point.

[Annmarie Horden]

About a year ago I was speaking with Howard Marks and he said if you were going to get into the tech trade, even though he's typically a credit investor, he'd rather be in the equity than the credit because he's to going, getting paid for the equity in terms of the potential upside.

[Karen Moscow]

Sure.

[Annmarie Horden]

I wonder if that equation has flipped right now, whether potentially you're getting paid to be in the bond side of things and not necessarily on the equity side as a result of the dynamic, as a result of how high yields have gotten.

[Karen Moscow]

Well, I think there is some, there is some truth to that. However, you have to think about it this way. Credit spreads have just started to weaken really over the past 10 days. You're about 10 basis points wider on IG credit. But I think you have to do a lot of homework as a credit investor in these hyperscalers off balance sheet data center backed bonds that are being issued. You really need to find out whose balance sheet is being decked against these interest payments. And that's going to be a really tricky one even for the most astute of credit investors to look into.

[Unidentified Market Analyst]

So do you think something people want to stay away from for the remainder of the year?

[Karen Moscow]

Well, you know, when we take a look at the internals of the market, look, The S&P 500 just slipped below its 50 day moving average. There's quite a ways to go until it hits its 200 day. But the American association of Individual Investors, it's 30% bulls, it's 42% bears. That could mean that you have a little bit of a counter trend rally. But there's also one thing that we're not talking about that's bugging the market, which is the midterm elections. You know, markets do not like uncertainty generally Those summers before the midterm elections can be very ugly. You don't necessarily need to get all the way to election day, but you probably need to get to maybe mid October for oil prices to come down, for the inflation data to roll over to really probably put in a more sustainable bottom.

[Unidentified Market Analyst]

It's not also just the midterm election, it's also the conflict in the Middle East. The market thought the President was going to take a diplomatic route. And right now we actually see more strikes and it's spreading. Egypt's getting hit. You see attacks in the Black Sea and the Caspian. Is the market starting to pay more attention to this than they were say two, three weeks ago?

[Karen Moscow]

You'd have to because of the price of oil. Right. The price of oil is going to hit consumers pockets through the transition mechanism, mechanism of gasoline prices and other distillate products, jet fuel, all those types of things. You're even starting to see I think probably some fatigue, you know, on behalf of many of the President's supporters. Right. Saying we've had a lot of this, we've had enough of it at this point. And you need to start to focus back on domestic policies as well because domestic policies will come knocking out the door sooner than you think.

[Jonathan Ferro]

Let's not do the midterms yet. Still July, when people start talking, I'm not there.

[Annmarie Horden]

I think, you know, I'll take the know you're that year off midterms. I'll start talking about, you know what, October 1st.

[Karen Moscow]

Yes, actually Labor Day. That's what I started yesterday.

[Unidentified Market Analyst]

I said I give you till September7, end of September.

[Karen Moscow]

All right, well, Monday is August, so you're certainly getting there. But look, you have the underlying strength of earnings while, look, the market certainly come for us.

[Unidentified Market Analyst]

No, no, no.

[Karen Moscow]

I'm just trying to give you some facts that you need to think about.

[Jonathan Ferro]

I'll take a therapy. Carry on.

[Karen Moscow]

Yes, that's right. I've turned from portfolio manager to therapist. So look, you do have the underlying strength of the equity market. You've got the underlying strength of earnings and sales growth is really off the charts at this point. And the beats are being rewarded, which is signs of a healthy market. But look, we haven't had a 10% correction in quite some time. Even the market downdraft that you had in March, or excuse me, late February into early March, that one wasn't a 10% correction. So it's not surprising to see some, some weakness. A lot of questions about the hyperscalers at this point. Those things need to get resolved and the Fed is not helping.

[Lisa Abramowicz]

Stay with us.

[Jonathan Ferro]

More Bloomberg surveillance coming up after this.

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[Jonathan Ferro]

Oh thank you, thank you. Research writing we have been super bullish on refining and think there is a major crisis here. We argue people are looking at the wrong oil price. Crude is not the issue. Gasoline, distiller and Jet. Paul joins us now for more. Paul, good morning. How small? How thin is the cushion? How bad are things?

[Paul (Refining Expert)]

Well it's just that the Refiners here, for example, refiners are running at 96% utilization.

[Jonathan Ferro]

How unusual is that to run at 96%?

[Paul (Refining Expert)]

That's where we want them. And it's not unusual. I mean, for example, in Mexico, that would be 50%, you know, but it's, it's an amazing performance and it does run. Raise the risk around refining because obviously when they're running that hard. Hurricane season coming up, El Nino, we went through a couple of heat waves, and that causes issues. So I'm worried that the. There may be more problems. But the big idea is that basically wholesale gasoline is $140 a barrel. Brent is at 90. And that margin is absolutely massive in terms of profitability. As I say, it's a. It's a margin, not a price. The $70 refining margin. And that's telling you that the tightness is in the refining system. So there's plenty, more or less, plenty of crude. A lot of it driven by China's behavior and by the spro, which is another big turning point, by the way, because when we run out of spro, which should happen around September, that'll massively change the dynamics of the WTI market here in the US Be very bullish

[Unidentified Market Analyst]

when it comes to the products. Which is most vulnerable right now?

[Paul (Refining Expert)]

Well, jet fuel sort of sits above distillate, is the hardest to make, and the industry has done an amazing job of raising their yield and really addressing the jet fuel crisis. And the reason they do that, it's the highest margin product. So jet fuel has actually not been the problem that we anticipated, basically because we didn't realize the refining industry could generate so much more jet fuel than they've been able to. The tightness at the moment, which is interesting, is that the area that's normally not that tight, which is in gasoline, and that's where we're watching the inventories go, way below the bottom of the range. And that's basically because they're pushing so much into jet and diesel that you're actually sucking down the biggest inventory, which is gasoline. And then, of course, I said you're drawing down the SPRO very rapidly as well.

[Unidentified Market Analyst]

But on the spro, Energy Secretary Chris Wright says it's a, quote, long way from operational minimum. You think there's an issue coming in September?

[Paul (Refining Expert)]

Well, that's depending on the rate. Weekly it's being pulled down, but the refiners now find it a great deal because they're basically taking physical barrels. They're not paying for them, and they owe physical barrels in the Future and as you not pay back more barrels, but in the future, which is a much larger low, something of a lower price. So the refiners want the crude. There's a big debate that hasn't really been addressed by the DOE of where the bottom of the SPRO lies. It's. They put out a note about Cushing, which is a different thing. Cushing is metal tanks above ground. The Spider is a salt cavern that you hollow out by dissolving the salt. Every time you take it down, then push it back up, you push water underneath and you dissolve more of the cavern. So there's actually a technical question. Is the cabin getting bigger? How low can it go? Is all basically not being addressed other than, you know, Chris writes, frankly, has a lot of a very high reputation in the oil industry. But as an energy secretary, he said some things that haven't turned out to be entirely true, particularly regarding the Straits. Poor moves. So I'm not sure that, you know, what he says about the SPRO is really definitive, frankly. We just don't know when we're going to have have to stop downloading it, basically.

[Annmarie Horden]

So the SPRO is like a bag of popcorn where half of it's air and you open it up and you don't realize until you finally get in there.

[Paul (Refining Expert)]

Okay, yeah, it's going to get really convoluted here. No, it's a salt cab.

[Annmarie Horden]

Seriousness. I am wondering how much credence you put to the barrels that are still going through the Strait of Hormuz and potentially through pipelines, actually making it through, which has been in a huge offset to some of the drawdowns that people were expecting.

[Paul (Refining Expert)]

Yeah, I mean, my latest researchers haven't published it actually, but it's on the UAE because the UAE is actually exporting more oil now than it was before the crisis started. And that's been one of the most stunning dramas here. And I'd add that, you know, the front lines in this conflict are shifting. If you just look overnight, what you've seen here is US and Saudi basically fighting Iraq versus Saudi. UAE seems to be at peace now. They've made some kind of peace with the Iranians. There's no issues in Abu Dhabi at the moment. And of course Israel, Lebanon is quiet. And then the other big front which is going crazy is Russia, Ukraine. That one is absolutely out of control. So the conflict has shifted quite dramatically, as any war would. And you know, I think the biggest one is that actually oil is coming out through the Hormuzer, for example. UAE has been trans shipping quite successfully. So what they're doing is using smaller, more discreet tankers, zip around the strait and then load bigger tankers, you know, to, to, to, to export actually more oil than they were before the crisis.

[Annmarie Horden]

Do you think that we need to be paying more attention to what's happening with Russia and Ukraine and that that's going to take more barrels off than a lot of people are expecting?

[Paul (Refining Expert)]

Well, there's no question that one of the stunning aspects of this whole World War 3, because I always say if you're worried about World War 3, you're in it has been the emergence of Ukraine as a superpower, as a drone superpower, that you wouldn't have thought, you know, now that Ukraine is very popular in the Middle east, they're doing arms deals down in the Middle East. But what I will say is they're trashing Russia. And, you know, I don't know how much longer Russia can handle this. It's getting intolerable for the Russian people, I'm sure.

[Lisa Abramowicz]

Stay with us.

[Jonathan Ferro]

More Bloomberg surveillance coming up after this.

[Public.com Announcer]

Support for this show comes from public.com if you're actively involved in your portfolio, you probably catch yourself repeating the same actions. Buying the dip, manually sweeping idle cash, putting on a hedge on public. You can now create AI agents that handle all these tasks on your behalf. Just describe what you want to do in plain English, like if the Vix hits 25, buy a put option on the S&P 500 or if my cash balance goes above $20,000, move the excess into my direct index. You approve the workflow and your agent handles the risk, monitoring the market, watching for your conditions and executing your strategies exactly as defined. An investing platform driven by your intent, not just your clicks. You can also get full read and write access to your account via the public API. Go to public.com market and fund your account in five minutes or less. That's public.com market paid for by Public

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[Jonathan Ferro]

Under Savannahs this morning, it was triggering for Paramo. We're questioning the North Star.

[Jim Bullard]

It was a real family fight. That's the better way to get policy right. That's our North Star. If Inflation continues to be elevated through the forecast period. Interest rates could well be part of that solution revolution. Market participants are learning to play the ball, not the referee.

[Lisa Abramowicz]

So here's the latest.

[Jonathan Ferro]

30 year bond yields rising to the highest level since 2007 as investors challenged the Fed's credibility, fearing chair Kevin Walsh won't temper inflation fast enough. The former St. Louis Fed president Jim Bullard joins us now for more. Jim, for once I imagine you were happy. You were on the inside and you were sitting on the outside. What was your view of how that news conference went down yesterday?

[Jim Bullard]

Well, unfortunately, I thought it was a little bit rocky. It's probably not unanticipated given that Chair Wash is new in the role. This is his second press conference. But I thought, you know, the sell off, the higher yields in the 30 year are, you know, kind of nerve wracking for a central banker. You know, dollar depreciation on, on the announcement, I think he needed to do more to create optionality in September and he didn't do very much of that. He emphasized the inflation target and that you weren't backing off the inflation target, gave a little bit of a hint that, you know, the measurement, you know, might be a factor there. I don't think that was helpful. And you know, you might as well explain what the main arguments were around the table because the members are going to go out and tell you what, what they are thinking. And basically what they're thinking is there are two more inflation reports to come and we want to see those inflation reports before we get going on any kind of hiking campaign. So you might as well at least acknowledge, you know, the contours of the argument. I understand he doesn't want to give forward guidance, but it's a work in progress and he's very accomplished, I think, in many ways. But Marcus obviously didn't like this.

[Jonathan Ferro]

A work in progress implies there is some intent here, there is an objective. Jim, what do you think it is? What is the intent? What's the objective?

[Jim Bullard]

Well, I think he says what he means. You know, he, I would characterize interest rate policy in the US as being partly the Fed and partly the market. And he feels like it's become 90% fed and 10% market. He wants that back to dial that back to 50% or something like that. And so that it's, you can't get, you can't drive either side to zero. Both sides have a role to play. But he feels like it's been too much Fed, not enough market and you know, maybe he's erring in the other direction now, but I think we'll get to a good equilibrium eventually.

[Annmarie Horden]

Do you think, Jim, that there's a difference between forward guidance and a reaction function?

[Jim Bullard]

Yeah, I do. I think, you know, and we're struggling, I think, to know what, what he means when he says he doesn't want to give forward guidance. If you look at a Taylor rule or something like a Taylor rule, that tells you what the Fed would do in every single state of the world. And so that's forward guidance in some sense. But I think what he means is like the chair would come out at a press conference and say, hey, it's highly likely we're going to move in September, or it's highly unlikely we're going to move in September. That sort of forward guidance, I think is what he wants to get away from that might be warranted, especially when you want to have optionality to see how developments proceed.

[Annmarie Horden]

The reason why I asked Jim is because he seemed to say that we're conflating the two and that people are asking for reaction function when actually all they're looking for is some sort of forward guidance. And I just wonder what you make of the way he answered questions or didn't answer questions. I mean, did you think that this was deliberate or do you think that there is a larger idea that the market isn't understanding?

[Jim Bullard]

Yeah. Well, is it deliberate? Well, I'm sure he thought very carefully about how he wanted to handle things. And I thought, I guess one thing that stood out to me is that he didn't want to bring up, okay, there are two inflation reports before the next meeting because I think he was feeling like that would create too much data dependence independence and too much focus on that. But that's really the story here is can the committee count on inflation coming down, especially coming down core PC inflation coming down below 3% and being on track to go to 2% or are they going to have to get on a tightening campaign to make sure that that happens. So you know, the data is going to be important over the next couple of months.

[Jonathan Ferro]

Jim, do you think that performance makes it more, more likely they'll hike in September?

[Jim Bullard]

Well, he steadfastly stayed away from that. I think I would have preferred that he say we're ready to move, you know, under certain circumstances and we're definitely willing to move. Instead, he only talked about the inflation target itself without saying that we're ready to take action. Markets didn't like that and they actually the two year yield went down and so now markets are less sure that the committee will actually follow through and, and try to drive inflation back to 2%. So I think it is, it is a bit of erosion of credibility. I think it can all be managed, but unfortunately it was a little bit, a little bit rocky.

[Lisa Abramowicz]

This is the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast, bringing you the best in markets, economics and geopolitics. You can can watch the show live on Bloomberg TV weekday mornings from 6am to 9am Eastern. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify or anywhere else you listen. And as always, on the Bloomberg Terminal and the Bloomberg Business app,

[Annmarie Horden]

The Bloomberg this Weekend Podcast. News, politics, and the lighter side of Bloomberg.

[Karen Moscow]

Forget healthspan. Midlife men face pressure to extend hotspan podcast.

[Paul (Refining Expert)]

Spam.

[Karen Moscow]

Spam, yes. So millennial men, you have to stay hot for like, several more decades. David. Okay, so you need to work on this.

[Jim Bullard]

I got to work on this.

[Karen Moscow]

This is like a really not so

[Jim Bullard]

subtle way of telling me that.

[Annmarie Horden]

The Bloomberg this Weekend Podcast. Subscribe today on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen.