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- [00:00]
Podcast Host / Sponsor Announcer
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- [00:50]
Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comDisclosures Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News thank you very.
- [01:17]
Bloomberg Interviewer
President Milei thank you. Thank you very much for talking to Bloomberg again. Last year I think we discussed free market economics, dogs and the Rolling Stones. But this time we are going to begin with Venezuela. You welcomed the removal of President Maduro, but the Trump administration seems quite happy at the moment with sticking with Venezuela's interim President Delsey Rodriguez, who is loyal to Maduro. And you very much describe the Maduro regime as a narco terrorist dictatorship. So what has changed? Are you worried that nothing has changed in Venezuela?
- [02:03]
President Javier Milei
No, it's not. First of all, I would like to recognize the tremendous work done by President Trump and Marco Rubio. First, in order to extract the narco tyrant dictator murderer, Maduro also made a point of spreading terrorism across the whole region, funding campaigns and financing terrorist acts out on the streets, complicating lives for all governments that were not pro 21st century socialism. So I warmly welcome that situation. On the other hand, I think the plan designed by the US Administration in three phases is quite appropriate. The first one has to do with stabilization, which is the current phase will come and then the transition towards democracy. The thing is possible to do it otherwise stabilization needs to be done this way. Our countries in the Americas have suffered and continue to suffer the encroachment of the host of 21st century socialism on the structures of the state. You see they basically as if they were, you know, under 21st century socialism administration when they're not in government, they exercise and they make a point of sabotaging. Governments are not that do not belong to the ranks. It's very difficult. You see, in Venezuela, that would be 100%. Thinking that there could be another possible way of managing the stabilization process truly means not understanding the limits of reality as such. So in my view, the work being done by the United States is excellent. And besides, I think it is working, it's bearing fruit because we see that also political prisoners are being released, something we welcome and we also hope they will finally release all of the political prisoners. We are particularly concerned about the situation of Nahuel Gaggio from Argentina. But as we see the positive evolution of the situation, we are hopeful that Noel will be able to be with us again.
- [04:57]
Bloomberg Interviewer
You know the reason why I asked you flew to Oslo to support Maria Corinna Machado when she won the Peace Prize. And do you still support her to be or her candidate Edmundo Gonzalez, to be the President of Venezuela?
- [05:17]
President Javier Milei
The thing we need to understand is that over the course of the stabilization process, any alternative, actually the force of the regime indoors will make anything fail otherwise. So the way I see it, the approach taken by the United States to deal with the situation is the right thing to do, the right way to go at this time. And, well, when it comes to rebuilding for democratic transition, it will be the time to make perhaps other decisions and see how progress can be made towards democratization in Venezuela. I mean, of course, I do greatly appreciate and I'm fond of Maria Corina, who's a great friend and defender of liberty. But we need for this process to be successful. We shouldn't be too hasty and as a result, finally going backwards.
- [06:18]
Bloomberg Interviewer
And you still talk with Machado and you're still in contact with her?
- [06:24]
President Javier Milei
Oh, yes, I'm in contact with her. We are friends.
- [06:27]
Bloomberg Interviewer
Let's look at the economy. When we came here last year, you had already bought inflation down from 300% to 80%. Now it's at 30%. You've had a good year in terms of the trade deficit. The economy's growing. The two questions, though, always come back. And the first is the currency. As you know, you are a free marketeer. You believe in free, free currencies. And the question is, when will you let the peso go free? And just to be really clear, the peso going clear, going free, you have broadened the band. But a free currency, you know as well as I do, means without any controls or FX bands. When is that going to happen?
- [07:15]
President Javier Milei
The first thing we need to understand is that when you come into office and need to run a country, it's not that you start from scratch. You need to obviously face history and Argentina, there's very bad history on its shoulders. Argentina has removed 13 zeros from its currency. It has had three hyperinflations without a war. So there is a primary problem regarding the currency in Argentina and that is the mechanism by which agents, economic agents, form expectations. If we were to work with a traditional rational expectations model like the one we've all studied, we have so much celebrated Robert Lucas Jr. Well, so much so, you know, I've named two of my four legged children after him. So you can imagine.
- [08:17]
Bloomberg Interviewer
Do they bark at you every day that you do not set the currency free.
- [08:30]
President Javier Milei
Because of that. Besides, I have even much more liberal libertarian versions of me. But I would like to note that under normal pressure and temperature conditions, so to speak, the price level in the economy would be governed by the money amount. And the exchange rate is one more price in the economy. Strictly speaking, we have set the money amount. This was in mid 2024. And what we are getting to feel now is the effect, the hangover effect after the monetary disaster of the previous administration which printed money in an amount equivalent to 28% of GDP. And all the more so during the last few months before they left office to win the election. You know, this is the sort of sequence that prices follow that I'm going to explain. Let's suppose you have a fall in money demand that leads to a leap in the exchange rate and that leads to an increase in the price of tradables, then in wholesale prices, then retail prices and then wages. Of course, you have spent almost 90 years with that sort of dynamic. It's quite likely that people will think that if the exchange rate goes up, then the prices will go up. So I won't get angry because of the way people form their expectations, because I mean, they've been proven right for 90 years. So what we are trying to do is to understand that people can build expectations that way. And we understand that volatility in the exchange rate can translate into price volatility. Let's suppose you have a change in relative prices and tradables become more expensive. Perhaps there is a deterioration in the terms of trade and the exchange rate goes up. What will happen then? Prices will go up. So you will see a mismatch between the price level and the money amount and the economy will slide into recession. We understand the problem of volatility. So the exchange rate within the Band is free, it is free within the band, it is free. And the bands only serve the purpose of people that the rate will not just any accentuate. So then they learn how to float and they lose the fear. So that's a role of bans to limit the volatility.
- [11:12]
Bloomberg Interviewer
But when do you think this year you will be able to say you have learned, you have discovered what that freedom is like. Now try it properly and float. Let's float the peso. What is the timing?
- [11:29]
President Javier Milei
Well, from my point of view, that will be when we're finally clean up the money overhang. We have had this money overhang because of the hangover of previous monetary policy. Also due to the capital controls that were put in place in the past and also as a result of the price controls. Since we have set fixed the money amount and we only now print against new demand, at one point local inflation will converge towards international levels. Which means that at that point you have have managed to clean up the money overhang and will be in a position to let the peso float freely without any sort of trouble. Because along the way the agents will have learned and if there's exchange rate volatility and they want to translate that into the domestic prices, they will have to face Mega's worst face. They will have no demand and will.
- [12:28]
Bloomberg Interviewer
Have the other big test. And you know, it's a fairly simple question is the international loan markets. You have raised money at home domestically, but as you know very well the last when your predecessor defaulted on the foreign bonds. And so the question is very specific. When will you go and raise money in New York or outside Argentina?
- [12:54]
President Javier Milei
Our nosotros enrigor. Well, strictly speaking, you know, raising money, all we should need would just be to roll over as a general framework because Argentina has zero deficit. In fact, the amount related to interest is paid by Argentina out of surplus. That's the first point. And through the Tax Innocence act we hope to really boost and develop the domestic capital market. Therefore, our need to resort to funds in foreign markets will be less and less in the worst of cases, perhaps we would only be going out to international markets to secure the rollover. And besides, given Argentina's fundamentals, we think that paying a surplus rate with country risk at 550 basis points, we think that is clearly not in line with our fundamentals. So since. We have a very low debt to GDP ratio, because most of the debt is within the public sector and we have achieved fiscal equilibrium, we will need less and less access to capital markets. Aside from the rollover and with the development of the local market, we'll be able to pay and bring down the exposure. It's not something that, given our fiscal performance, should be a great concern. I would be worried not to have you got a large enough.
- [14:42]
Bloomberg Interviewer
Last year you famously got a $20 billion swap line from the US a big success when you got it. Scott Besant, the Treasury Secretary, said that you had committed, as he put it, to getting China out of Argentina. And you have always been very critical of China. But as you know, China still has a space station in Argentina. You still have a swapline with China. What does getting China out of Argentina mean to you?
- [15:16]
President Javier Milei
In my view, what Scott Besant said is well in line with the thinking of the United States administration. And this is a matter related to geopolitics. The United States does trade with China and the way we see it, China is a great trading partner. It means a lot of opportunities for us to expand markets. So that is not any source of conflict when the geopolitical time comes. Do you have any doubts as to where China stands?
- [15:51]
Bloomberg Interviewer
China doesn't have it.
- [15:53]
Podcast Host / Sponsor Announcer
China.
- [15:53]
Bloomberg Interviewer
China doesn't have a space station in the United States. The last time I checked, it does have a space station in Argentina.
- [16:02]
President Javier Milei
It's on a top level. Well, that's not proven that.
- [16:05]
Bloomberg Interviewer
Well, China does. I will, I will ask President Trump whether the Chinese have a space station there. But if you. But in general, you know, when you were, when you were a candidate, very critical of the Chinese.
- [16:21]
President Javier Milei
But. Let's put it this way. I am present for 47 and a half million Argentines and I make the decisions that best favor the interests of the Argentine people. So part of that is the fact that Argentina, which is a very close country, the most closed country in the world, given its GDP per capita, Argentina should have trade to GDP ratio of a little over 90%. And it only has 90, 30. Sorry, strictly speaking, 28, if you want to be accurate. Consequently, my plan is to open up to the eu, to efta, to the United States and to China. I want an open economy. And if you look at the weight of the Chinese economy in the world, you will understand that I need to trade with China or look at the evolution of India. I need to trade with India. And that's what I'm working on to make Argentina definitely a more open country.
- [17:28]
Bloomberg Interviewer
On the subject of trade agreements, you have a trade agreement with the U.S. when do you expect that to be signed?
- [17:37]
President Javier Milei
We are ready to sign. We are working on the fine detail. We will have good News.
- [17:44]
Bloomberg Interviewer
And the other one is Mercosur, which I remember you were somewhat critical of, but that is the Southern American trading bloc, which I know you think could be even freer than it is, but it's just done a deal with the European Union, which I think you support. But do you worry about the effect that could have on Argentine industry? Or when. When it opens up the field with Europe?
- [18:11]
President Javier Milei
Our when you design policy. And that was the central pillar of my presentation. Yes, in my address in Davos, you see, you design based on ethical and moral values. So please explain to me why you would justify a situation where Argentines, or most Argentines need to pay more for goods they could get more cheaply. Because it's false. And that also destroys jobs. That's one of the big lines of Keynesian economists who are actually ruining the whole planet. Whatever they touch, they break. But when you open up the economy, products that will be cheaper lose jobs.
- [19:07]
Bloomberg Interviewer
Here.
- [19:11]
President Javier Milei
For example, in Argentina used to pay $40 for a T shirt, when it's actually only $5. And the money you save, you will spend elsewhere in another sector. You will create jobs in another economic sector that people are interested in, and this will lead to high productivity. So when you open up the economy, you will see a reallocation of resources, but there will be productivity gains due to greater division of labor and higher specialization. Otherwise, if the protectionist argument were true, one day we would decide to close up Argentina. I will borrow an example from my brilliant, excellent, wonderful deregulation minister. That's taken from one of his books I used to read him. I used to always be a big fan of Federico Schwarzenegger. So he said, okay, so let's close up Argentina and then narrow it to the province of Buenos Aires, and then further down to the city of Buenos Aires and then to Palermo, which is just one district. And then it will be just a couple of blocks. And the end result of this will be full autoarchy. You will live all by yourself. What will your life be like? Miserable, because you'll have to make your own shoes, your own socks, your own suits, your own ties, your own shirts. How do you think you're going to live?
- [20:30]
Bloomberg Interviewer
Badly.
- [20:31]
President Javier Milei
So trade creates a division of labor that leads to increasing returns, leads to productivity gains and to wellbeing. This is why more open countries are. And there's the most closed countries. A lot to do.
- [20:45]
Bloomberg Interviewer
That was a very eloquent defence of free trade, which I should point out, very not enough other people do. But next door to you, you have Brazil, where I Think it'd be fair to say there is a much more Keynesian approach with your friend or not that friend? President Lula, he's up for election this year. What? Mending that relationship with Brazil, is that a priority or do you your dogs just bark every time you mention him? Are you going to call one of your dogs, Lula?
- [21:24]
President Javier Milei
I would never call my dog anything left wing. I really love my dogs. Too much so as to insult them. This is why they have all been named after liberal economists. Murray, Murray Rothbard, Milton for Milton Friedman. Robert for Robert Lucas Jr. And Robert again for Robert Lucas Jr. And Conan, which is the barbarian warrior. That's the original dog. But apart from that we have an adult relationship. I mean this is not some kind of ideological paper based battle in the middle. We have the lives of millions of human beings. So we continue to advance. But we have really given a lot of a boost to Merkaso for it to be more flexible and dynamic. Signing the deal with the EU took 25 years time. That's a very long time. And the world of today needs more speed, it needs to move faster. So this is why we have also encouraged working with a lot more flexibility. We need to adapt. This is not a matter whatever suits the bureaucrats, you know, those who just take up seat space and collect tons of dollars in order to do nothing. Because again, for a bureaucrat the result means nothing. And the process is everything. And people need results. So we work in order to generate. So whatever trade we will do, I will not be breaking anything. Whatever helps gain more trade, I will do. And if other countries decide to take other decisions, well, they're sovereign. It's up to them to do whatever they please. I work for the well being of the 47.5 million people.
- [23:17]
Bloomberg Interviewer
Look at Latin America. When you, when we first met, you know, you were the, you were a sole voice on the right, if we call it that way.
- [23:27]
President Javier Milei
I was more lonely than Adam on Mother's Day. Now I have quite a few friends.
- [23:34]
Bloomberg Interviewer
Yes, that's a very good parallel. Since then, Chile and Bolivia, you have two friends.
- [23:41]
President Javier Milei
And then Cain of course was.
- [23:45]
Bloomberg Interviewer
But then you have Chile and Bolivia. Now we do have elections in Colombia and Brazil. Have you identified people there who you want to support to carry on the same kind of wave of reforms that you would hope to see change in Latin America?
- [24:05]
President Javier Milei
The decision is up to every people to decide whether they will follow socialism. You know, Thomas said, you know, what is the best thing about socialism? That it sounds nice. But you know what the problem is? It always fails. So each society will awaken to the light of the ideas of freedom whenever it can. And I'm optimistic that they will become aware that the best thing they can do is espouse the ideas of freedom. And we can exemplify this with Argentina. We had inflation increasing 1% a day, so we were headed to 17,000%. We halted fiscal deficit, which was 5% of GDP in the treasury. We halted that in the first month. It would have seemed impossible, but it was not impossible for the world's best economy minister, Toto Caputo, and the best minister we've ever had in our history. In only six months time, we fixed the quasi fiscal deficit and we also stopped the money amount printing money. Now we are looking at 24, 25, depending on whether you take the wholesale rates. So everyone was predicting a hyper recession. But Argentina reached a floor in April and then started to grow strongly. The latest figures show the economy growing at 4.2%. We have lifted 30% of the population out of poverty. 15 million people have been lifted out of poverty. What does this mean? The free market works, that free market capitalism works. Those are the fundamentals. As I referred to yesterday in my Davos address. Free enterprise capitalism is not only just and efficient, but it also lets the economy grow more. And when you design policies on the basis of ethical and moral values, the western values thrive. You also enjoy social consensus because you're doing what is, what is fair. One of the things is that.
- [26:23]
Bloomberg Interviewer
Just.
- [26:24]
President Javier Milei
Efficiency, whether it be Pareto efficiency or the efficiency of Machiavelli's political calculus. This is why I said yesterday that Machiavelli is dead and we need to bury him. Because what we are proving is that when you design policies on the basis of ethical and moral values, and when you do what is just not what best suits the political rubbish. People who work only on the basis of political speculation, that's how you gain support. We got 41% of the vote, a 17% lead over Kirchnerism, which in a general presidential election would mean winning on the first round. The latest surveys show that 62% of Argentines support free market economy. And you know what? It works and it is, is only President Milei.
- [27:14]
Bloomberg Interviewer
There are many things that you can defeat, but one of them, perhaps the most socialist things of all, is time. And we have sadly run out of it. Thank you very, very much for talking to us. Please can you all. We have to get President Milei out very quickly, so can you stay in your. Stay in your seats and then we will go out. Thank you.
- [27:35]
Podcast Host / Sponsor Announcer
Support for the show comes from public on public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com market and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com market paid for by Public.
- [28:25]
Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available@public.com disclosures these days it seems like AI agents are just about everywhere. You turn every field and every function, but without identity, you can't trust they'll serve your business instead of jeopardizing it. Fortunately, Okta helps you get identity right by securing your AI agents identities, giving you a single layer of control, a single standard of trust. So whether an AI agent supports a single user or your entire enterprise, with Okta you'll turn risk into opportunity. Secure every agent. Secure any agent Agent Okta secures AI.