Ariel Investments Founder John Rogers Talks New York Knicks Finals Win

Summary

Bloomberg Talks

Episode: Ariel Investments Founder John Rogers Talks New York Knicks Finals Win

Date: June 15, 2026
Host(s): Bloomberg Host & Co-Host
Guest: John Rogers (Founder, Chairman, Co-CEO, CIO, Ariel Investments)

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on legendary value investor John Rogers’ insights following the New York Knicks’ historic finals victory, delving into the business and investment implications for Madison Square Garden Sports (MSGS), the potential for strategic corporate reorganization, the evolving market valuation of key Dolan-owned assets, and the remarkable turnaround story of Sphere Entertainment. Rogers also gives his perspective on the Knicks’ prospects for sustained success.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Knicks’ Finals Win: Sentiment, Value, and Investment Impact

[00:25–01:53]

• Rogers has been a longtime and vocal advocate for the value locked within MSG stocks—particularly in the Knicks and Rangers franchises.
• The host inquires about the relationship between fan enthusiasm (evidenced by paraphernalia sales and season ticket demand) and the actual market valuation.
• Rogers’ View:
  • Despite the high excitement, most of the positive developments are already “incorporated in the price of the publicly traded companies.”
  • “I do think it's going to be a good year. I think there's going to be still more good news. But a lot of the good news is already incorporated in the price...” (John Rogers, [01:24])

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2. The Case for Splitting MSGS into Two Separate Entities

[01:53–02:53]

• The host raises the possibility of splitting MSGS into one stock for basketball (Knicks and WNBA team) and another for hockey (Rangers and minor league counterpart).
• Rogers’ Endorsement:
  • Rogers enthusiastically supports the idea, citing the ease it would provide for private equity investment and potential sales.
  • Suggests that a split “will probably never be higher than what's happening during this environment after this iconic championship.”
  • “The spin off and splitting up into two companies is a really, I think, a terrific idea.” (John Rogers, [02:16])

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3. The “Dolan Discount” and Potential Sale of the Knicks

[02:53–04:05]

• The host introduces the concept of the “Dolan discount”—the tendency for Dolan-led assets to trade at a discount due to investor perceptions.
• Rogers’ Perspective:
  • Investors would “love” a sale at these highs because the stocks have never reflected the full value of their underlying assets.
  • The Knicks could fetch $12 billion or more, making a sale attractive at this historic peak.
  • “The markets have never really reflected the true underlying asset value of Madison Square Garden sports...” (John Rogers, [03:15])

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4. Sphere Entertainment: From Doubt to Premium

[04:05–05:55]

• Discussion shifts to Sphere Entertainment, where Ariel Investments is a major shareholder.
• Rogers’ Analysis:
  • Sphere was initially met with skepticism, seen as a costly debacle (“cost over $2 billion when it was only supposed to cost 1.3 billion…”).
  • The stock languished in the 20s–40s but has now surged past $150—a story of investor sentiment turning from “Dolan discount” to “Dolan premium.”
  • Rogers lauds the unique concert-going experience and the innovative use of AI at Sphere.
  • “Once you've seen an act in the Sphere, with all the extraordinary technology and the world class sound system, it's just something special.” (John Rogers, [04:31])
  • Notes global growth potential as more Spheres are planned worldwide.

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5. Managing Portfolio Winners: Discipline and Strategy

[05:55–07:19]

• The host queries how Rogers manages the risk of large successful holdings becoming too dominant in Ariel’s portfolio.
• Rogers’ Approach:
  • Sphere was Ariel’s largest holding last year; MSG Entertainment has also been a top performer.
  • Maintain discipline by not allowing any single company to exceed 6% of the portfolio.
  • “As stocks get more expensive, more people realize the economic value... it's a time for us often to be lightening up.” (John Rogers, [06:29])
  • Remains “well positioned for future growth” but always prudent about risk.

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6. Knicks’ Future: Sustainable Success or One-Off?

[07:19–08:27]

• Host recalls Rogers’ basketball background (Princeton, friendship with Knicks great Bill Bradley) and asks if this championship is a fluke or the start of a dynasty.
• Rogers’ Optimism:
  • Believes New York can attract top free agents and remain a contender.
  • Praises Jalen Brunson as “arguably the best player in the world... his ability to make shots under pressure. There's just really no one like him.” (John Rogers, [07:39])
  • Sees potential for “multiple years again in New York.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the market effect of the Knicks’ win:
  • “A lot of the good news is already incorporated in the price of the publicly traded companies.” ([01:24])
• On the rationale for splitting MSGS:
  • “It'll be easier for Jim Dolan if you want to sell one of the companies… realize the valuation will probably never be higher than what's happening during this environment after this iconic championship.” ([02:16])
• On the Dolan discount flipping to a premium at Sphere:
  • “If you go to see a concert at the Sphere, everyone says they've never seen anything like it... it's just something special.” ([04:31])
• On portfolio discipline:
  • “We don't like to have one company be more than 6% of the Aerial Fund portfolio.” ([06:29])
• On the Knicks’ future and Jalen Brunson:
  • “Jalen Brunson is arguably the best player in the world... the degree of difficulty in the shots that he makes... there's just really no one like him.” ([07:39])

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Fun Fact & Closing Moment

[08:51–08:54]

• The host reveals that John Rogers once beat Michael Jordan one-on-one—“That's actually verified.”
• “We should leave with that next time.” (Bloomberg Hosts, banter)

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Key Timestamps

• [01:24] Rogers on Knicks excitement already priced in
• [02:16] Rogers endorses MSGS split
• [03:15] Rogers on investors and potential Knicks sale
• [04:31] Rogers describes Sphere's unique value and AI use
• [06:29] Rogers on handling portfolio winners
• [07:39] Rogers’ optimism about Knicks future and praise for Jalen Brunson

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Summary prepared for those who want the investment story behind the Knicks’ win, insight into Dolan-led sports business strategy, and the investor perspective from one of the market’s savviest sports stockholders.

Transcript

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[Bloomberg Host]

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[John Rogers]

Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News Our next

[Bloomberg Host]

guest, he's been all in really on some of these Jim Dolan businesses for quite some time. A longtime invest investor in MSG as the sports business at least a decade and the largest holder in MSG Entertainment, John Rogers joins us right now. The legendary value investor. He's the founder, chairman, co CEO and CIO over at Ariel Investments. John, great to have you here. We've talked a lot over the years and you've always been banging the drum here on the value and more importantly, some of the unlocked value in the MSG stocks. Let's start with msgs. This is the business that includes the Knicks as well as the hockey team, the New York Rangers. I know it's hard to sort of put a valuation on sentiment, but when you walk around this city and you feel the excitement, you see jerseys and all the paraphernalia selling out, you're already getting words here that whatever season tickets are going to look like for the next season are going to be a lot higher. Does that mean that the value of this stock goes up with it?

[John Rogers]

Well, as you know, markets are so efficient and even with all this excitement and all this enthusiasm, you know the stocks have done extremely well over this last year as people started to see the team coming together, starting to see a gel and the playoffs have gone on, the stocks have made new highs. So I do think it's going to be a good year. I think there's going to be still more good news. But a lot of the good news is already incorporated in the price of the publicly traded companies.

[Bloomberg Host]

There has been some discussion prior to this series that there was the idea that they would actually split MSGS into two separate stocks. It's basically one stock for the Knicks and its WNBA counterpart and another for the hockey team, the Rangers and its and its counterpart in the minor leagues here. Do you think that that would be a good idea to do at this time?

[John Rogers]

I think it's an excellent idea to split the two companies up. I think it will make it much easier for a private equity investor to put capital into either of the companies or both companies. It'll be easier for Jim Dolan if you want to sell one of the companies he's know he might want to sell at these all time highs as the Stocks have done so extraordinarily well, you know, get out on top and realize the valuation will probably never be higher than what's happening during this environment after this iconic championship. And again, all the excitement of New York City. So the spin off and splitting up the two companies, splitting up into two companies is a really, I think, a terrific idea.

[Bloomberg Host]

Well, I'm curious about that. You've talked in the past about this stolen discount, the idea that for better or for worse, there are a lot of people that don't look favorably on Jim Dolan as a person and to a certain extent, extent as a manager. And I do wonder if some reason he was willing to sell here at the top, whether that would be welcomed by investors like yourself.

[John Rogers]

Well, I think investors would love it because the stocks have not reflected the entire value of these franchises. As we know the Knicks, who have been rumored to be worth 10, 11, maybe now it'll be $12 billion, you know, probably the, the highest priced basketball team in history if it were ever to be sold. So would be the time to really take advantage of all the enthusiasm. You can imagine all those billionaires that are out there would want to be part owner of the New York Knicks and to be able to be in Madison Square Garden, you know, celebrating the next championship as an owner. So it is the right time to be thinking about a sale and again, to be able to realize the value because the markets have never really reflected the true underlying asset value of Madison Square Garden sports. And the Knicks and the Rangers will

[Bloomberg Co-Host]

certainly be interesting to follow along and see what decision Jim Dolan ultimately makes. But I do want to talk about, you know, your other exposure that you have to his sort of publicly listed portfolio here, of course, Ariel Investments, also a big holder in Sphere Entertainment. And I just wonder, you know, how, how you think about that fitting in. When you think about, okay, MSG is one thing. You think about the Knicks exposure that you have there. How does fear factor in?

[John Rogers]

Well, Sphere was spun out into a separate company several years ago and you talked about the Dolan discount. The stock got extremely cheap. People thought that they had spent, you know, way over budget to build the Sphere, cost over $2 billion when it was only supposed to cost 1.3 billion. And people sort of gave up on it. The stock was sort of treading water, you know, 40s, 30s, even into the 20s, and now it's over $150. So that Dolan discount has become a Dolan premium. It's just done exceedingly well and it's been executed In a beautiful way. If you go to see a concert at the Sphere, everyone says they've never seen anything like it. They don't want to go to a traditional venue anymore. Once you've seen an act in the Sphere, with all the extraordinary technology and the world class sound system, it's just something special. And then of course the movies like now the wizard of Oz that plays every day there several times a day day, they used AI to be able to take that old movie and make it spectacularly successful in the Sphere. So Jim Dolan has executed beautifully from the time that he first drew what the Sphere was going to look at look like on, on a napkin.

[Bloomberg Co-Host]

Right.

[John Rogers]

And now to see it where it is and starting to grow globally as you're going to start to see more spheres around the world. It's just something we couldn't be more excited about. The execution around the Sphere.

[Bloomberg Co-Host]

Well, you think about that, that Jim Dolan discount flipping into a premium, as you say. I know we've been focusing on MSG and those associated stocks, but Sphere, Sphere shares higher by 61% on a total return basis year to date. When you have winners like this in your portfolio, John, I wonder how you manage them. I mean, you think about target allocation levels not wanting, you know, a particular holding to go too big. Is that something that you're thinking about as you see these really stellar runs that some of these stocks are going on?

[John Rogers]

Well, it's interesting. These have been some of our largest holdings. Sphere was our largest holding last year. Madison Square Garden Entertainment, that owns the Garden, has been one of our top holdings also throughout the year. So we've had very, very large positions in our Aerial Fund in two of our favorite stocks. But you're right, at some point when the value starts to be realized, it's prudent for us to scale back. We don't like to have one company be more than 6% of the aerial Fund portfolio. And so it just means that as stocks get more expensive, more people realize the economic value of those businesses and the cash flows that are there. It's a time for us often to be lightening up. But now we feel like we're in a great position. We think we're well positioned for future growth and in all three of the companies and just couldn't be more excited to be Tim Dolan's partner.

[Bloomberg Host]

So John, I do want to circle this back to the Knicks here. I mean, you obviously are a basketball fan. You played obviously at Princeton. You know a lot about this sport. When you look at the team and what you saw this year and really coming out of last season as well, is this going to be a one off championship wise and we wait another 50 years or maybe the start of a multi year run?

[John Rogers]

Well, I'm very, very optimistic. You know, I'm really good friends with Bill Bradley, the former senator who was one of the stars of the last Knicks championship. And you know, I think we'll be able to have multiple years again in New York. You know, people want to come and play in the world's greatest arena in one of the world's greatest cities. So it'll help us to attract free agents as time goes on to keep the team fresh and exciting for the future. Yeah, and of course Jalen Brunson is arguably the best player in the world. I mean what he's been able to accomplish is just remarkable. Remarkable. The degree of difficulty in the shots that he makes, his ability to make shots under pressure. There's just really no one like him. So I think he is still at the right age to be able to help us deliver more championships as we go forward and more value for both the guard and as well as the sports.

[Bloomberg Host]

All right, well said. And we had your friend Bill Bradley on on Friday and he was giddy about the prospects of actually seeing the first championship since well, he won that championship. And we should also point out also a princess and tiger himself. John, really appreciate it. John Rogers there, the founder, chairman, co, CEO and CIO of Ariel Investments. And you know, Katie, he's also, I think the first guest we've ever had that's actually beaten Michael Jordan in a one on one.

[Bloomberg Co-Host]

No kidding.

[Bloomberg Host]

That's actually verified.

[Bloomberg Co-Host]

That's quite a size and scope.

[Bloomberg Host]

It is.

[John Rogers]

It is a size and scope.

[Bloomberg Host]

We should leave with that next time.

[Bloomberg Co-Host]

There you go.

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