Ark Investment CEO Cathie Wood Talks H-1B Visas, China Tech Sector, TikTok

Summary

---

Bloomberg Talks

Ark Investment CEO Cathie Wood Talks H-1B Visas, China Tech Sector, TikTok

Date: September 22, 2025
Host: Bloomberg
Guest: Cathie Wood, Founder, CEO, and CIO of Ark Invest

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Cathie Wood, founder and leader of Ark Invest, joins Bloomberg to examine a range of pressing topics shaping global technology and finance. The discussion explores the impact of H-1B visa changes, the divergent paths of Chinese and American tech sectors, the competitive future of large language models and artificial intelligence, strategies for Ark’s own ETF success, and the shifting landscape for TikTok and digital assets.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

H-1B Visas and Tech Talent in the US (00:22–03:03)

• New Application Fee & Impact: Cathie Wood suggests the U.S. government’s H-1B visa maneuver is “part of President Trump’s negotiating process,” particularly with India, and likens the strategy to previous tariff headline tactics. Despite the headline noise, she asserts much fundamental progress is occurring in U.S. policy.

  “This is a little bit like tariffs and it’s going to capture all the headlines... a lot of really good fundamental activity happening in the United States relating to policy.”
  — Cathie Wood (00:40)

• Silicon Valley Innovation & Labor Pool: The host raises concerns over the consequences for American innovation and “mega cap tech stocks” that are dependent on foreign skilled labor.

• Long-term Outlook: Wood anticipates that current restrictions are a negotiating ploy and expects eventual loosening of visa rules.

  “When all is said and [done] we’re probably going to loosen up the H1 visa program.”
  — Cathie Wood (01:43)

• AI’s Transformative Impact on Coding Jobs: Wood points out the decreasing demand for traditional coding roles due to the rise of AI and natural language programming, suggesting enhanced efficiency may offset pressures on labor markets.

  “The number of coding jobs and openings has dropped dramatically because of AI. All of us can become coders...”
  — Cathie Wood (02:15)

  “Generative AI is prompting chatGPT to get your programs going. We can all do that. That’s simplifying it. But I do think it gives you a sense of the kind of productivity that’s possible...”
  — Cathie Wood (02:40)

---

US vs. China Tech Sector & Market Competition (03:03–06:33)

• Chinese Tech Valuation & Strategy: Wood notes Chinese tech stocks are valued at roughly half of their US counterparts. She describes China’s aggressive open-source movement as a reaction to US companies’ retreat over IP theft fears, suggesting that the resulting competition is “a good thing for the United States and for China.”

  “We forced them into [the open source route]... and are moving very quickly. I think competition is a good thing.”
  — Cathie Wood (03:12)

• Electric Vehicle (EV) Market & Commoditization: She mentions China’s realization that extreme commoditization — especially in EVs — may have gone too far.

• AI Profitability & Market Concentration: Wood observes the field of companies truly competing in the large language model space is shrinking, citing “acqui-hires” by firms like OpenAI and Meta as evidence.

  “The number of companies competing, truly competing in the large language model space... has shrunk.”
  — Cathie Wood (05:01)

  • The current AI “big four” are: OpenAI, Anthropic, xAI, and Gemini.
  • Profitability will hinge on signaling — that companies are willing to pay for these powerful models, citing willingness to pay a spectrum from $20 to $2,000/month per client, depending on use case.

  “As long as these companies get that signaling that companies are willing to pay, they will continue to invest in this race.”
  — Cathie Wood (06:18)

---

Ark Investment’s Competitive Edge (06:33–08:49)

• ETF Differentiation: Wood credits Ark’s success to a unique research-sharing approach, describing Ark as “the first sharing economy company in the asset management space” for research.

  “We give our research away. We have given our Tesla model away... the open source from that point of view. I think we have a very loud voice out there when it comes to innovation...”
  — Cathie Wood (06:45)

• Track Record: She revisits Ark’s early and contrarian bets (Bitcoin, Tesla, Palantir, Coinbase, Nvidia) and expresses pride in their “loud voice” within innovation circles.

• Performance & Flows: Despite Ark’s ~40% gain for the year, flows remain flat, which Wood positions as notable relative to industry-wide outflows. She emphasizes Ark’s rapid growth in Europe, anticipating crossing $1 billion in UK/European AUM soon.

  “Most active managers are outflowing today. So the fact that we’re flat is very interesting... we are about to cross $1 billion here in Europe and the UK which... in two years is very significant.”
  — Cathie Wood (07:59)

---

TikTok, US–China Negotiations & Investment Potential (08:49–11:24)

• US–China TikTok Deal: Wood frames the US government’s decision to allocate seven TikTok board seats to Americans as an “idiosyncratic” situation, reflective of the election season and ongoing broader negotiations with China.

  “I think this is idiosyncratic... I also think it’s part of a broader negotiation with China. If anyone can re-enact a Nixon in China moment, it is President Trump... Everyone trusts that he will strike a good deal with China.”
  — Cathie Wood (09:29)

• Network Effects & ByteDance Risk: Wood notes a persistent investment concern following corporate separations: “does a company lose some of the network effect?” She acknowledges TikTok’s impressive growth and competitive lessons for US firms, referencing Vine as an illustrative failed precursor.

  “TikTok has been an amazing company, has taught us a lot... a company called Vine in the US... was not able to activate it in the way TikTok has and TikTok ran away with that.”
  — Cathie Wood (10:38)

• Investment Interest: Ark would “have to do a deeper dive” before investing, pending access to more data.

---

Crypto Outlook (11:24–12:09)

• Digital Assets Stance: Wood reiterates Ark’s continued bullishness on crypto, highlighting Bitcoin’s leadership, Ether’s growth, and the rapid rise of Solana and “Hyper Liquid.” She describes crypto as “three revolutions in one” — monetary, financial services, and immutable digital property rights.

  “We’ve been increasing our exposure generally to the digital asset space. I think bitcoin has been the leader, the others are following... This is three revolutions in one: a monetary revolution, financial services revolution, and... digital property rights.”
  — Cathie Wood (11:30)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “This is part of President Trump’s negotiating process... It’s going to capture all the headlines and it’s going to really take the oxygen out of the room...” — Cathie Wood (00:40)
• “The number of coding jobs and openings has dropped dramatically because of AI. All of us can become coders.” — Cathie Wood (02:15)
• “We forced them into [open source]... China is very focused on the open source software movement. I think competition is a good thing.” — Cathie Wood (03:12)
• “The number of companies competing, truly competing in the large language model space... has shrunk.” — Cathie Wood (05:01)
• “We give our research away... the open source from that point of view.” — Cathie Wood (06:45)
• “TikTok... has taught us a lot. This is what I mean about Chinese competition... TikTok ran away with that.” — Cathie Wood (10:38)
• “We think [crypto] is three revolutions in one... only possible because of blockchain technology.” — Cathie Wood (11:30)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:22: Cathie Wood on H-1B visas and Trump administration strategy
• 01:43: Impact of AI on coding jobs and innovation
• 03:12: Chinese tech sector, open source, and competition
• 05:01: AI consolidation, large language model competition
• 06:45: Ark’s research-sharing strategy and innovation bets
• 07:59: Asset flows and European expansion
• 09:29: TikTok board shakeup, US-China negotiations
• 10:38: TikTok’s competitive impact; Vine comparison
• 11:30: Ark’s stance on bitcoin, ether, and new crypto entrants

---

Episode Takeaway

Cathie Wood delivers candid, strategic views on how shifting US immigration policy, AI disruption, China–US tech dynamics, competition in the ETF arena, and digital asset innovation are transforming the investment landscape. The episode offers a robust snapshot of Wood’s perspective as both a disruptor and close watcher of global capital flows — with pointed insights for the future of technology and markets.

Transcript

[Indiana University Announcer]

Indiana University is shaping the future of health care, advancing discoveries that become treatments for Alzheimer's, obesity and cancer and training the providers trusted to deliver them. See how IU solves what's next iu Edu Impact.

[Bloomberg Audio Studios Announcer]

Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio.

[Interviewer (Bloomberg Host)]

News Let's go to one of our favorite tech investors. Cathie Wood, founder, CEO and CIO of Ark Invest, joins us around the table to talk about this world. Kathy, we want to get into your tech investments, we want to get into your views, but we got to put this question to you around H1B visas and this new application fee, what do you make of it? What's the impact?

[Cathie Wood]

Well, again, this is part of President Trump's negotiating process and I think he's negotiating quite intensively right now with India. I think India would be have the biggest impact here in terms of, you know, workers in the United States. So I think this is a little bit like tariffs and it's going to capture all the headlines and it's going to really take the oxygen out of the room because there's a lot of really good fundamental activity happening in the United States related relating to policy.

[Interviewer (Bloomberg Host)]

Well, a lot of that, a lot of the innovation, a lot Silicon Valley kind of goodness really comes from the talent and the labor pool. We've been talking about this for quite some time in terms of how do you train your engineers, you train Americans to do a lot of what Silicon Valley depends on foreign workers to do. Does this impact innovation in Silicon Valley and does it impact mega cap tech stocks, tech companies that are dependent on this?

[Cathie Wood]

Well, from what we know of this administration, they ultimately want to keep students who have been educated in the U.S. foreign students that have been educated in the U.S. in the U.S. so really I just think this is part of the negotiation with India and, and that when all is said and we're probably going to loosen up the H1 visa visa program.

[Interviewer (Bloomberg Host)]

But in the short term, is it, is it, is that going to have an impact on tech companies?

[Cathie Wood]

I think what it's going to do is force tech companies to do what they're already doing and that is become more efficient. And the other thing to to note is, you know, coding is changing dramatically. The number of coding jobs and openings has dropped dramatically because of AI. All of us can become coders. You've heard of Vibe to me there.

[Interviewer (Bloomberg Host)]

By the way, that's a lot of faith in God.

[Cathie Wood]

You know, this is natural language programming. Generative AI is prompting chat GPT to to get your programs going. We can all do that. That's simplifying it. But I do think it gives you a sense of the kind of productivity that possibilities that are possible that that will impact these tech companies longer term.

[Interviewer 2]

Takes me on to my next question. Is Chinese tech going to outperform US tech from a stock market point of view over the next year?

[Cathie Wood]

Well, you know, the valuations are quite different. They're. They're roughly half of what they are in the United States. We're very impressed at how quickly China is moving here. I think the deep seek moment gave us an opportunity to understand the that China is very focused on the open source software movement. We forced them into that. US did because our companies stopped selling into China out of fear of IP theft. So they've gone the open source route and are moving very quickly. I think competition is a good thing. It's a good thing for the United States. It's a good thing for China. I also think what's good about China recently is it is focused now on the idea that maybe commoditization has gone too far. Especially in the electric vehicle space.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Cathie Wood]

So called involution. They are thinking that means. Yeah, whatever that means. So they're thinking that and it is true. It is expensive to develop these large language models even though they say it's not. There's a lot of pre training that takes place before you get a deep seek and if you're not profitable as a company you're. You're going to have a lot of trouble competing in that space. So I think even that is changing, which is interesting.

[Interviewer 2]

When does I become profitable? When can I assume a margin on AI? And I'm talking about the large language model companies here. Huge amount of investment going in at the moment, Kathy and everybody scratching their head wondering does all of it deliver? Does all of it produce a rate of return? Are we going to have to see some sort of, some veteran sort of clearing of the clearing of the market at some point? What does that look like? What is your sense of kind of where we are at the moment?

[Cathie Wood]

I think that the number of companies competing, truly competing in the large language model space.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Cathie Wood]

Has shrunk. These acqui hires that OpenAI and Metta, that's all about, you know, other companies really not making it so that the.

[Interviewer 2]

Process has already solved.

[Cathie Wood]

The process has started.

[Interviewer 2]

But do you think is going to win?

[Cathie Wood]

Well, I think the big four right now are open AI.

[Interviewer 2]

Yeah.

[Cathie Wood]

Anthropic X AI and Gemini. Those four and we don't know if this is going to be a four horse race or a two horse race. Let's see over time how they leapfrog one another and they are doing that regularly. It's very interesting. But you ask about profitability companies that are not hiring people. The number of new job openings is falling. They are already enjoying huge productivity increases. That's why margins have been sustained even with the tariff hit recently. In fact tariffs being put in place, the counter to that is okay. We have to cut costs and that has. And they're willing to pay $20 a month, some are willing to pay $200 a month and those who are replacing PhDs they're willing to pay $2,000 a month or more. And so as long as these companies get that signaling that that companies are willing to pay, they will continue to invest in this race.

[Interviewer 3]

Kathy, you say competition is a good thing. We've talked about the landscape. Let's talk about you. There's a lot more, more tech, innovation, robotics, ETFs out there now. How do you plan to compete?

[Cathie Wood]

It's a great question, Lizzie. I think our differentiation is our research. We have what I believe is the first sharing economy company in the asset management space. When it comes to research we give our research away. We have given our Tesla model a way for exact approach. Yes, the open source for from that point of view I think we have a very loud voice out there when it comes to innovation and I think some of the calls we've made starting in 2015 with Bitcoin and at the same time roughly Tesla, Palantir, Coinbase, Nvidia in the earliest days we were there when most people thought it was a PC gaming chip company. So I think we've got a loud voice. You're asking about conversion because we have these other companies out there which with huge distribution. Well thanks to Bloomberg, you know we are able to share with you our research and it's research that others aren't doing in quite the same way.

[Interviewer 3]

But when you look at the numbers, Ark's up about 40% this year. Flows are absolutely flat. What can you do about that if great performance just isn't drawing people in?

[Cathie Wood]

Well, what's interesting about that is most active managers are outflowing today. So the fact that we're flat is very interesting. And what's more interesting to us and very gratifying having entered UK and Europe is that we are about to cross $1 billion here in in Europe and the UK which in. In two years time. We acquired rise in two years ago is is very significant. I think, I think here In Europe. A quarter of our reader base even before we launched was in Europe and the question was when are you coming to Europe? So we are getting the flows here in, in the UK and Europe and we're really excited about the momentum behind those flows.

[Interviewer (Bloomberg Host)]

Kathy, I want to get your take on a deal that was preliminarily announced on Friday between the United States and China when it comes to tech talk. And I think you're a unique person to have this conversation with given your early exposure to Chinese tech stocks. Tick Tock has now been we're still waiting for all the details, but we understand is being given seven board seats to Americans. There's a question of a licensing agreement, there's a question of some of the holders, including the Murdochs or Larry Ellison, among others. What kind of precedent does that set for you as someone who is exposed to Chinese tech? Is this the new norm or is this an idiosyncratic story?

[Cathie Wood]

I think this is idiosyncratic. I think during our election President Trump promised that he would be open minded to keeping TikTok us. It's so important to the young people and many more people in the United States. So I do think it's a one off special case. I also think it's a part of a broader negotiation with China. I think if anyone can re enact a Nixon in China moment, it is President Trump. He has been toughest on China. Everyone trusts that he will strike a good deal in the everyone in the US Trusts he will strike a good deal with China. And I think we're probably going to get more better than expected news longer term. You'll hear a lot of sabre rattling in the meantime, but this is one indication of that.

[Interviewer (Bloomberg Host)]

Is Tick Tock a good investment if the US has more hold over it? And counter to that Is bytedance a good investment if this is a deal that's being created?

[Cathie Wood]

You know the one question we always have when there is a breakup like that is does a company lose some of the network effect in some way? Now they were already supposed to be separate China and the U.S. we'll see. We'll see. TikTok has been an amazing company, has taught us a lot. This is what I mean about Chinese competition. They taught our company companies a lot. I will say, I will say that a company called vine in the US was the precursor and Twitter at the time bought it was not able to activate it in the way TikTok has and tick Tock ran away with that.

[Interviewer (Bloomberg Host)]

So would you, would you want a piece of it?

[Cathie Wood]

You know we have to do a deeper dive when we get into the data room.

[Interviewer 2]

Crypto is down a little bit. Bitcoin selling off this morning. These kind of levels. Are you a buyer or seller?

[Cathie Wood]

Well, we've been increasing our exposure generally to the digital asset space. I think bitcoin has been the leader of the others are following. Ether has followed now Solana and Hyper Liquid is a new one, the new kid on the block. We think this is three revolutions in one. A monetary revolution, financial services revolution and really in a much broader sense a digital property rights immutable property rights online never happened before, only possible because of blockchain technology.

[Interviewer 2]

Okay, down by around Crypto is down. The Bitcoin's down around 2% this morning. Cathy Gracie, thank you very much indeed. Cathie Wood, founder and CEO of Ark.

[Indiana University Announcer]

Invest Indiana University, is shaping the future of health care. Advancing discoveries that become treatments for Alzheimer's, obesity, cancer and other rare and complex diseases. And training the next generation of providers, doctors and nurses trusted to address health challenges with skill, compassion and purpose. From the lab to the clinic, from research teams to patient care, IU talent is driving medical innovation, improving health outcomes and strengthening communities. See how IU solves what's next IU Edu Impact Every business starts with an idea.

[Bloomberg Audio Studios Announcer]

How can you go from daydreamer to industry leader? Amazon Business accelerates your journey with smart business buying. Get everything you need to grow in one familiar place. From office supplies to IT essentials and maintenance tools. Amazon Business takes the buying experience you know and love from Amazon plus tools that help you save costs and make insights based decisions ready to bring your visions to life. Learn [e-mail].