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- [00:00]
Narrator/Announcer
Indiana University is proving how higher education can create solutions with industry. We're working side by side with industry partners to fuel economic growth that powers a future ready workforce. Explore IU's impact at iu.edu impact.
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Bill Barheit
Bloomberg.
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Interviewer 1
Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News well, with more on the year that was and what may lay ahead, particularly in crypto, now we're joined by Bill Barheit, CEO of and founder of abra, a global platform for digital asset prime services and wealth management for high net worth individuals and institutions. So if you're Abra, Bill, I'm tempted to ask when is the CADABRA coming and is it next year?
- [00:47]
Bill Barheit
Good question. Good to see you. Thanks for having me. Look, there's a lot of things that, as they say, history doesn't necessarily repeat itself, but it often rhymes. There, there's a lot of things going on that feel like 2020 to me. We had a market crash at the beginning, Covid induced here. We had, you just brought up a crash in October which was induced by the initially the 100% tariff announcement on China, but also some serious issues that were uncovered afterwards in one of the large exchanges internationally. And then, you know, gold rallied, right? In 2020, gold rallied from, I think it was 1400 to 2000. Silver rallied from about 12 to almost 30. Bitcoin stayed in a range at that point and it's trading very close to where it started the year right now. So, you know, a lot of this sounds familiar, but by the way, after gold peaked, we had a rotation into risk assets in 2020 and Bitcoin went on an epic run from 12,000 to over 60,000. Right. And the market cap of the entire crypto space went up by 8x by mid 2021. So now gold is near record highs, around 4500, silver is around $80. Bitcoin is basically been sideways this year. I actually think it went up significantly after the election because it was front running the idea that all of the regulatory obstacles to adoption were going to be removed, which has proven mostly true with additional legislation pending. Right. We talked about October liquidation events. So it feels like with the Fed and other liquidity catalysts, 2020 is going to repeat itself in 2026. Rate cuts, you know, leverage reserves. And the banks are likely to get really relaxed, which means more leverage again, regulatory clarity, ETFs, etcetera, etcetera.
- [02:54]
Interviewer 2
Hey Bill, one thing I do wonder, I mean you guys are a platform. You see things, you see investors, what they are doing, high net worth individuals, also institutions talk to us about activity, more money coming in, more money going out. Give us some color on what you are seeing on your platform.
- [03:13]
Bill Barheit
Sure. So I think we're seeing a rotation. There's two types of rotations we're seeing. The first is there was a well known investor who referred to this as Bitcoin's IPO moment. And what I think he meant by that is we had people who've invested in Bitcoin 10, 12 years ago who were taking a little bit of profits, let's say 15, 20% profits. That's a lot of money because those people have massive concentrations. Their entire wealth, if you've been holding for 10 years, is probably based on bitcoin. And so that IPO moment represented a bit of a rotation. Now we're actually seeing rotation where a significant percentage of Bitcoin is no longer being held on exchanges. So we're not an exchange, we're a wealth management platform just like another ria. So money coming in to a platform like ours tends to stay there for a very long time, extending stays in cold storage for a very long time. Now we're seeing a lot of clients asking to be able to borrow against those Bitcoin holdings because they think that it's reached a long term floor with significant upside.
- [04:12]
Interviewer 1
Some of your customers not getting a little scared though Bill, because I mean it is extraordinarily volatile at the best of times. But, but just in the last three months, as we can see, we're down, you know, 25%.
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Interviewer 2
Sure.
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Interviewer 1
We're higher than we were, you know, before the President took office, but still.
- [04:27]
Bill Barheit
Yeah, no, that's, that's not a, that's not, that's a trading phenomenon. Right. So in our world, first of all, Nvidia points this year was in Tesla rule were significantly more volatile than Bitcoin. I would also posit that. Right. It's, it's traders that drive that price. The incremental float that's available for trading at Bitcoin is not nearly as big as it used to be because so much of it is locked up. Now, whether it's ETFs or in platforms like ours, our clients are long term holders, they don't sell. And the rotation of money out of our platform is nearly zero. And that's not just a function of the fact that they like our service, which I'm sure they do, it's that our clients are just not interested in selling Bitcoin. The biggest question I get is what would I possibly sell into? It's the best long term Capital gains, potential asset that I own.
- [05:17]
Interviewer 2
Right.
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Bill Barheit
And they're not speculators, by and large.
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Interviewer 2
What's important that you see from the administration that continues the support of, of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies? We certainly know we have a White House, safe to say, that is very favorable to the crypto environment. The President's family is certainly involved in it. But what is it that you expect in terms of the environment? They're still trying to figure out regulatory. There's still a long ways to go. Does that get solved in 2026, especially when you've got midterm, you know, midterms looming and maybe Congress coming back to kind of insert itself?
- [05:50]
Bill Barheit
Good question. I see three things happening. The first is we're going to get a second bill passed, in my opinion. We got the stablecoin legislation, the Genius act passed, which I think was pretty reasonable. We're about to get the Clarity act out of committee, I believe, which is going to be the biggest overhaul in many ways to securities and commodities regulation in decades, which is going to make it easy for the second part of my thesis, which is the tokenization of everything. So you're going to see markets globally, including the US Start to adopt tokenized versions of equities, commodities, real estate, etc. Etc. And then the third, I think you're going to see more of the same as it relates to global and specifically US Debt markets. Right.
- [06:36]
Interviewer 1
See, I have a problem with this bill because I wonder why replicate and why would you buy the replica when you can buy the real thing?
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Bill Barheit
I wouldn't buy a replica. So. So that's a good question. There's a nuance there. So. So the early days of tokenization are going to be tokenizing existing shares, which has a little bit of value, which I'll explain in a second, but the real value comes in native tokenized equity issuance, and that has huge advantages. The first is stocks. Our stock markets are closed more than they're open. Okay. Crypto markets don't close. So now all of a sudden you have the opportunity to have a 247 borderless market. Right. That is 247 liquid, which is what investors in 2025, 2026 want, in my opinion. Right. That's number one. Number two, as I mentioned, Bill just.
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Interviewer 2
Got about 30 seconds, so I just want to give you an opportunity to wrap up. Go ahead.
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Bill Barheit
Yeah, sure. And then the second part leads to what I said before. What is the fastest growing service we see? It's people borrowing against the Bitcoin if you've tokenized Apple shares, Tesla shares, it's now just as easy to borrow against the value of those shares without having to pay capital gains taxes as it is against Bitcoin. That is going to drive the tokenization of everything.
- [07:49]
Interviewer 2
We will continue this, no doubt, in 2026. Bill Barheid, he's founder and CEO of Abra, joining us.
- [07:54]
Narrator/Announcer
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