Congressman Jim McGovern Talks US and Venezuela Tensions

Summary

Episode Overview

Title: Congressman Jim McGovern Talks US and Venezuela Tensions
Podcast: Bloomberg Talks
Date: December 12, 2025
Guest: Congressman Jim McGovern (D-MA), Ranking Member, House Rules Committee
Host: Joe Matthew

Theme:
This episode dives into escalating US–Venezuela tensions, the Congressional pushback against unilateral executive military action, and US domestic policy gridlock, focusing particularly on the looming health care crisis. Congressman Jim McGovern discusses his War Powers Resolution targeting potential military involvement in Venezuela, critiques the current administration’s policy motives, and explores bipartisan challenges within Congress, especially related to the fate of the Affordable Care Act (ACA).

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. War Powers Resolution and US Actions in Venezuela

• Congressional Oversight and War Authorization ([01:24]–[02:37])

  • McGovern is about to force a vote on a War Powers Resolution targeting potential US military action in Venezuela:

    “Yeah, I expect to force a vote on it next week … We have Republican co-sponsors … This is a bipartisan effort by those of us who actually believe the Constitution means something.” — McGovern [01:29]

  • Emphasizes bipartisan concern over unchecked presidential war powers.

• Specific Focus on Venezuela ([02:05]–[02:37])

  • The resolution is specifically aimed at Venezuela due to indications that the US may be getting "sucked into" conflict:

    “Wars are easy to get into. They're hard as hell to get out of.” — McGovern [02:18]

• Motives Behind US Policy in Venezuela ([02:37]–[03:49])

  • McGovern expresses skepticism over the administration's stated motives, positing financial and oil interests, not human rights or anti-narcotics, as the real driver:

    “I think it's oil, quite frankly. I think this president is not about promoting human rights … This is about Donald Trump's ego, and it’s about, I think, oil.” — McGovern [02:54]

• Concerns over Human Rights Abuses and Strategy ([03:51]–[04:16])

  • Criticizes lack of Congressional inquiry and transparency:

    “It would be nice if we had a functioning Congress that would call his administration up and ask these questions like, why are we doing this? Why now?” — McGovern [03:51]

• Question of Acts of War ([04:16]–[04:28])

  • On the potential for escalation:

    “If he [the President] does, that’s an act of war. ... We are guilty of serious human rights crimes by actually bombing survivors who are begging for help.” — McGovern [04:22]

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2. Congressional Dysfunction and the War Powers Debate

• Critique of Current Congressional Leadership ([05:00]–[06:13])

  • McGovern laments the paralysis and misplaced priorities in Congress:

    “This is a place where trivial issues are getting debated passionately and important ones not at all. ... Congress, a functioning Congress, means that we do the work of the American people.” — McGovern [05:18]

• Use of Discharge Petitions ([05:00]–[06:13])

  • Describes how gridlock has forced members to resort to rare procedural tactics:

    "We are in a world now where it does seem that discharge petitions and reconciliation bills are the only way to get anything done in the Congress." — Host [05:00]
    “Yeah. I mean, this Congress under Republican leadership does not function.” — McGovern [05:18]

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3. The Health Care Crisis

• Impending Loss of Coverage and Rising Costs ([06:14]–[08:30])

  • McGovern highlights real consequences for constituents:

    “We have a health care crisis right now. People are seeing their health care premiums skyrocket. People are deciding to go without health insurance next year because the costs are so high.” — McGovern [05:18]

  • Calls for extension of ACA tax credits while criticizing both sides' legislative failures.

• Reactions to Republican Proposals ([06:14]–[07:17])

  • Notes that Republican health care plans “don’t go far enough,” and warns about the danger of inaction:

    “They're proposing stuff that doesn't mean anything in anybody's life. Saying I'm fixing health care but in reality, not fixing health care, not making it more affordable. Well, that doesn't help anybody.” — McGovern [08:22]

• Constituent Stories and Policy Impact ([08:30]–[09:48])

  • Shares anecdotes from Worcester, MA:

    “We're hearing some really terrible stories of people basically saying, I can't afford my health insurance. Our office is getting inundated with calls … at the end of the day, they want us to get something done.” — McGovern [08:47]

• Reflections on ACA’s Successes and Shortfalls ([09:48]–[10:46])

  • Defends the ACA while advocating for more comprehensive reform:

    “It’s not perfect. Yeah, but it is better than the alternative, which is no ACA … If it was up to me, we would have a Medicare for all system.” — McGovern [10:07]

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4. Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On War and Congressional Responsibility
  • “Wars are easy to get into. They're hard as hell to get out of.” — McGovern [02:18]
• On Motivation Behind the Administration's Foreign Policy
  • “I think this president is not about promoting human rights. He doesn't give a damn about democracy … this is about Donald Trump's ego, and it’s about, I think, oil.” — McGovern [02:54]
• On Congressional Dysfunction
  • “This Congress under Republican leadership does not function. It is not working. It is a terrible disservice to the American people.” — McGovern [05:18]
• On Health Care as a Right
  • “Health care ought to be considered a fundamental human right for everybody in this country.” — McGovern [07:57]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction to Venezuela Topic / Tanker Seizure Context: [00:24]
• McGovern Introduces War Powers Resolution: [01:24]
• On War Powers, Bipartisan Support: [01:29]
• Motives Behind US Policy in Venezuela: [02:54]
• Human Rights and Lack of Congressional Oversight: [03:51]
• Risks of Escalation being ‘Acts of War’: [04:22]
• Functioning of Congress / Discharge Petitions: [05:00]
• Health Care Debate & Critique of Senate Proposals: [06:14]
• Constituent Impact of Health Care Inaction: [08:47]
• Assessment of ACA & Case for Medicare-for-All: [10:07]
• Closing Banter (Coney Island Hot Dog Reference): [10:52]

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Final Remarks

Congressman Jim McGovern delivers a candid critique of current US foreign policy towards Venezuela and the dysfunctional state of Congress, connecting international aggression and domestic policy failures. While he strongly denounces executive overreach and the shifting of US wars without Congressional debate, he is equally passionate about the need for practical, people-focused health care solutions at home. Throughout, McGovern’s language is direct and, at times, personal—reflecting rising frustration in the Capitol echoed by everyday constituents.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News.

[A]

Let's stick with Venezuela for a moment, though, knowing that this boat has been seized. And look, we've got another six tankers that have been sanctioned so we could soon have our own shadow fleet. It sounds like the president talked about this yesterday at the White House.

[C]

Listen, it's about a lot of things, but one of the things it's about is the fact that they've allowed millions of people to come into our country from their prisons, from gangs, from drug dealers, and from mental institutions, probably proportionately more than anybody else. So it has to do with a lot of things. They've treated us badly, and I guess now we're not treating them so good.

[A]

That's where we start our conversation with a gentleman from Massachusetts who has authored a War Powers act that could soon hit the floor, unless, of course, the speaker doesn't want to see that happen. This is a conversation that Democrats and Republicans are having here in Washington. Jim McGovern, Democrat from Massachusetts, ranking member on the House Rules Committee, with us in studio right now. It's really great to see you.

[B]

Happy to be with you.

[A]

Thanks for coming in, Congressman.

[B]

My pleasure.

[A]

You've introduced this War Powers Resolution some time ago. Will it hit the floor soon?

[B]

Yeah, I expect to force a vote on it next week. It'll be ripe to be considered on Wednesday or Thursday of next week. We have Republican co sponsors, Representative Massie and Representative Bacon and Marjorie Taylor Greene are on, are on board on this resolution as well. You know, again, this is not a Democratic initiative. I mean, these are, this is a bipartisan effort by those of us who actually believe the Constitution means something. And Congress has a role to play. And we don't want this president going into a war without a debate and without a vote and authorization by Congress.

[A]

Would this be specific to Venezuela or.

[B]

More broad, it would be specific to Venezuela because that's, you know, that's the conflict we seem to be getting sucked into. Although the clip you just showed of the president, he went on to further threaten Colombia, where he might do further action. But look, wars are easy to get into. They're hard as hell to get out of. And we have a history of talking tough, of getting sucked into these wars that cost billions and billions of dollars. And then we find ourselves in a quagmire that we can't get out.

[A]

Now, I know for a fact that you understand the politics of the Caribbean better than most on Capitol Hill, you helped to begin normalizing relations with Cuba. In the Obama administration, You've spent a lot of time in the region. So what do you think the president's aim is here? Is it regime change or something else?

[B]

Yeah, I think it's oil, quite frankly. I think this president is not about promoting human rights. He doesn't give a damn about democracy, and this is not about drugs. I mean, he pardoned the former president of Honduras, who's one of the biggest narco traffickers in the world.

[A]

Tons of cocaine.

[B]

Yeah. So I think. I mean, there must be some financial interest in pursuing this policy for the President, because that's all he really cares about, making money for his family and money for those who are close to him. Look, our history in Latin America has been one of arrogance, has been one of putting profits ahead of human rights. And by the way, this administration doesn't give a damn about human rights. They just issued their national security strategy, and this is the first administration that has removed the word human rights from the strategy. So this is about Donald Trump's ego, and it's about, I think, oil. I think that's. At the end of the day, I think that's.

[A]

Is that why we're seasoned tankers?

[B]

You know, again, it would be nice if we had a functioning Congress that would call his administration up and ask these questions like, why are we doing this? Why now? Again, this is not about drugs. More drugs are coming from Mexico and China than from Venezuela. So what is the strategy here? And the president is threatening, you know, action on the ground in Venezuela. Now, that's. That's war. He's threatening to cut off, you know.

[A]

Air traffic, says we're going to do the land.

[B]

Right. So do you think that he's.

[A]

He would actually strike brown targets in Venezuela?

[B]

Well, if he does, that's an act of war. Yeah, that's an act of war.

[A]

Is blowing up drug boats not an act of war?

[B]

Well, I mean, I think it is. I mean, we have. Some of my colleagues are debating that issue. But we're not only blowing up drug boats. I mean, it appears that we are guilty of serious human rights crimes by actually bombing survivors who are begging for help. Again, you know, Congress ought to be demanding a clearly defined mission in terms of what he is doing in Venezuela. And up to this point, there have been very few question questions, and he's provided very few answers.

[A]

You said something Interesting. A functioning Congress. Just back off what we're talking about here for a minute. We are in a world now where it does seem that discharge petitions and reconciliation bills are the only way to get anything done in the Congress. Do you feel that way? You're on the Rules Committee. You know how this works.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, this Congress under Republican leadership does not function. It is not working. It is a terrible disservice to the American people. This is a place where trivial issues are getting debated passionately and important ones not at all. I mean, we have a health care crisis right now. People are seeing their health care premiums skyrocket. People are deciding to go without health insurance next year because the costs are so high. We need to be talking about extending the ACA tax credits so that people can afford their health insurance. And we're not doing that. We're talking about stupid stuff. Stuff that is probably not even going to go, even be considered by the Senate. That is going nowhere. I mean, again, Congress, a functioning Congress, means that we do the work of the American people. And I'd like to think no matter, you know, what your politics may be, you know, making sure that we are addressing issues of affordability, which includes the cost of health care, are front and center. I mean, if the Republicans have a plan to bring the plan to us, let's debate it and vote on it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They've got nothing.

[A]

Well, let's talk about health care, because the Republicans put up a bill in the Senate yesterday. It failed. Then the Democratic plan failed. The Democratic plan, of course, would extend Obamacare subsidies. The Republican plan produced by Bill Cassidy would have health savings accounts. Congressman, I spoke with Nicole Malia Takis yesterday, who has signed on to a bipartisan effort in the House D's and R's that would extend the subsidies, would add some eligibility controls as well. Because someone like Nicole Malia Takis is not a fan of the Affordable Care act, as she told us yesterday. Let's listen.

[D]

There's so much fraud here, which is why we think we have the proper balance. And this gives us enough time, by the way, to then work over the next year or two to be able to come up with something that can truly replace the Affordable Care act and bring costs down. Now, what the speaker and leadership are saying is that we're going to take up a health savings account measure which will help people, certainly with their medical costs. And I support that initiative, but it doesn't go far enough.

[A]

Okay, but this is unlikely to see the floor unless the discharge petition makes that happen.

[B]

And even if we do the discharge petition route, we won't be able to get to it until probably in early January.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

My question to Representative Malia Takis is like, where the hell have you been? I mean, you're, you're a Republican. Your party's in charge. We've been talking about this issue for months. This is not something before the shutdown. Right. Since before the shutdown. Well, before. We've been talking about it during reconciliation. Right. So we go back months and months and months and we've been saying we've got to focus on this. And all we've been hearing from Republicans is like, oh, yeah, we'll get to it, we'll get to it. And now we're out of time. People are going to lose their health insurance. Health care ought to be considered a fundamental human right for everybody in this country. You know, I mean, you need health care. If you don't have health care, you end up at an emergency room.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, I mean, this is, this is crazy. So look, I, there are a number of discharge petitions that are going to, that have been introduced with various approaches to, to helping people afford their health insurance. I mean, let's, let's figure out what the best one is and let's move on it. But the stalling and the excuses and the finger pointing, it has to end. You know, we, we have, we want to debate this issue. We want to vote on this issue. We want to help the millions of, of people in this country who are about to get screwed.

[A]

What's the conversation in Worcester, Massachusetts right now? If you stop in Kelly Square and ask somebody about their health insurance, are they seeing these increases in dropping off the rolls or are they saying, I can't afford it anyway? So to your point, I'm going to go to the emergency room when I get it.

[B]

So, I mean, we're hearing some really terrible stories of people basically saying, I can't afford my health insurance. Our office is getting inside inundated with calls. Look, people in Worcester just want us to do our job, and they get it. There are differences between Democrats and Republicans, but at the end of the day, they want us to get something done. You don't have to agree on everything to agree on something, but whatever that something is has to be about improving the quality of life for the people who live in Worcester and all around the country. And the problem with what some of the, what the Senate did on the Republican side is the stuff that they're proposing, you know, it doesn't mean anything. In anybody's life. I mean, you know, saying I'm fixing health care, but in reality, not fixing health care, not making it more affordable. Well, that doesn't help anybody. Right. You know, we ought to have a larger discussion how we fix our entire health care system because it's a mess. It's too for profit oriented. But we're not going to do that in a week or two. Right. Right now we need to extend these tax credits so that millions of people don't see their premium skyrocket and millions don't lose their health insurance.

[A]

We've only got about a minute left here. Terminal user just wrote us. While we're talking, ask the congressman why the ACA failed, that they designed. Maybe I can reframe that a bit. A lot of Republicans come on the air and they say this thing was never affordable. Obamacare itself has raised premiums. Is this plan broken?

[B]

No. Look at, I think it's not perfect. Yeah, but it is better than the alternative, which is no aca. Right. I mean the bottom line is millions and millions of people have now have coverage because of the Affordable Care act, you know, if we extended the tax credits and so it's affordable. But as I said, we, we need to have a bigger conversation. Look at, if it was up to me, we would have a Medicare for all system. I mean, when I was the chairman of the Rules Committee, we were the first committee, neither the House or Senate, to do a hearing on Medicare for all. And I'll tell you, it was a very, very powerful hearing. But you know, to fix health care holistically, you know, is going to take some time. In the meantime, let's extend those tax credits. Let's, let's, let's help people who afford their health insurance.

[A]

Let's talk when the War Powers act hits the floor. We've got a lot more to talk about, Congressman. Let's do this next time at Coney Island.

[B]

With you, onions or no, with onions.

[A]

With onions, it's the only way to.

[B]

Best hot dogs in the world.

[A]

They really are too. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. Congressman Jim McGovern of Massachusetts. This is Bloomberg.

[B]

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