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- [00:01]
A
The thing about AI for business, it may not automatically fit the way your business works. At IBM, we've seen this firsthand. But by embedding AI across hr, IT and procurement processes, we've reduced costs by millions, slash repetitive tasks, and freed thousands of hours for strategic work. Now we're helping companies get smarter by putting AI where it actually pays off, deep in the work that moves the business. Let's create smarter business. IBM, Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio news.
- [00:43]
B
Let's head to Ankara, where NATO's leaders are gathering for this week's summit. Bloomberg chief political correspondent and surveillance co host Annmarie Hordern is there with Finland's President Anne Marie. Thank you so much, Danny. That's right. Fresh off his meeting with President Volodymyr Zelensky and the host of the summit, President Erdogan. I'm joined by the Finnish president Alexander Stoop, also known in the American press as the Trump Whisperer. Thank you so much for joining us here.
- [01:08]
C
My pleasure.
- [01:09]
B
So give us a sense of what this meeting you just came from with President Zelensky was like, especially given the fact that he's saying the next battle is going to be in the skies and he doesn't have enough defense systems.
- [01:19]
C
Yeah, I think there are two elements to it. The first one is that he's doing quite well in terms of long distance strikes, both drones and missiles. We're seeing Russian oil refineries being hit and 40% of their refining capacity going down. But the other part of it is the way in which Ukraine defends itself. And there he is absolutely right. He needs more air defense. He needs more patriots because we're seeing over 100 civilian buildings being hit just the other night with civilians dying. So this is something that we Europeans and Americans need to work on.
- [01:54]
B
Those long range drone strikes, do you think that's making Russia more emboldened or is it maybe do you think going to push them to negotiating table?
- [02:02]
C
Well, I think our assessment in Finland as Russia's neighbor is to understand that, you know, economic disparity won't end this war. The situation on the battlefield, in other words, the losses of Russian soldiers, 35,000amonth, is not going to end this war. But the strategic thinking of the Russian regime will change if the Russian population begins to be against the war. And that's what's happening right now. And the reasons are many. It's actually coming too close to home, hitting St. Petersburg and Moscow, the Crimean Peninsula. So it's hitting, you know, kids basically. Not hitting, but affecting children's Summers, it's, you know, they're closing Internet. They have long lines at the gas pump. So these kinds of things will probably make Russia reconsider and hopefully get them to the negotiating table.
- [02:50]
B
You are regarded as one of the closest European leaders to President Trump, a golfing buddy sometimes with him. What would your advice to Zelinsky be on how to approach the United States with these requests?
- [03:01]
C
Well, I think President Zelinsky and President Trump are having a really good dialogue right now. And of course, things went off track because of Iran for a while. But now that we are back on track and we see the rhetoric and the meetings they had at the G7 meeting, the phone calls that they've had before this NATO summit around the fourth of July, I think we're going in the right direction. And I think there is a fundamental understanding of the American administration that Ukraine is right now on top and it's always easier to back a winner than a loser.
- [03:36]
B
Do you think at some point, this has been a talk, talk for months, maybe even years, that the US Would allow Ukraine to just produce Patriot missiles in country?
- [03:45]
C
That would be very useful because what we close. I hope so, because, I mean, we have to understand that, you know, Ukraine needs NATO, but NATO needs Ukraine as much as the other way around because we're seeing their defense industry capacity, which we're talking about here at the NATO summit as well. And if the Ukrainians were able to produce their own patriots, I think that would be a, a good thing for civilians and it would be a good thing also in terms of it being more cost effective.
- [04:17]
B
The president's also frustrated with Iran, which is going to be another big topic today, especially given the fact that a Qatari vessel was hit. And of course, they're a mediator in this entire conflict. Is there an inability from Europe because they don't have the hardware to help the United States when it comes to Strait of Hormuz or there's not a political will to want to do.
- [04:37]
C
There's definitely a political will. You know, we've been on the side of keeping the Strait of Hormuz open for from the beginning. Our country, Finland, was involved in a declaration and in the planning of it. And I think the French and the Brits are now talking, for instance, about demining in Oman. So, you know, we have a lot of the capabilities to do it. And of course, on top of that, a lot of the European air bases and military bases were used to service and feed about 4 to 5,000American soldiers.
- [05:08]
B
Some countries said no.
- [05:09]
C
I think in the beginning there was Spain and then a couple of glitches with Italy and the uk but other than that, thousands and thousands of American soldiers would not have been able to work in the Middle east was it not for European Airways. So I think we just need to understand that we are on the same page for this.
- [05:26]
B
What was the last time you've spoken to the President? Do you feel like you guys are on the same page?
- [05:30]
C
Oh, I mean we message and speak. I don't remember when the last time was but, but you know, we are in constant contact. That's part of diplomacy. But again, you know, I don't have any illusions. You know, President Trump is very strong. He's a strong leader. He does his own things. Sometimes we conn that, other times we don't. Sometimes he listens. Most of the time he doesn't.
- [05:50]
B
When it comes to the broader meeting, this is really a follow on from the meeting In Netherlands, Naito's 3.0. At the same time you see Europe trying to re industrialize their defense base. The United States is looking at procurement and potentially withdrawals. They're in the middle of a six month review. Is that going to be one of the big topics discussed here today? And how do you convince the United States to, to stay committed to the continent?
- [06:14]
C
Well, I think it's in the interest of both Europe and the United States that we both stay committed. So what we're trying to do here is to create NATO 3.0, which basically means a stronger Europe in a stronger NATO. And why are we doing it? Basically in order to salvage the transatlantic relationship. And what we're now seeing is enormous deals actually on the defence industry in the tens of billions of dollars both in Europe and in the United States. I think we're going in a good direct with all this. We just need to sort of calm down the language a little bit and make sure that we get things right. As a Finn with 1340 kilometers of border, you can bet that I'm quite happy that Europe is rearming the way in which we are. If someone would have told me in my first NATO summit in Washington D.C. two years ago that we are now going for 5% of defense expenditure and implementing it, I would have said, I don't think you know your stuff.
- [07:08]
B
How has it changed for Finland two years within the alliance? Looking back, was it the right appropriate move for the country?
- [07:16]
C
Oh, definitely. But I should immediately come out in the clear and say that I've been a long term advocate of Finnish NATO membership. I think we are a value added to the alliance. In other words, we're a security provider. And the reason for that is that we were not a part of NATO before, so we took care of our own defence. That meant that we have over 60 F18s. We bought 65 F35s, means that we have long range missiles, air, land and sea. Meant that we went to the secondary market to buy tanks when everyone else was selling them. And on top of this, we have the biggest artillery in Europe, together with Poland. So we are in a good place. We were happily taken into the alliance, of course, together with Sweden. So we think that we are, in terms of security in a better place and that we think that NATO is in a better place because at the end of the day, it's all about deterrence.
- [08:04]
B
Alexander Stubbe, thank you so much for your time today.
- [08:06]
A
Thank you.
- [08:07]
B
That was, of course, the Finnish president, Alexander Stubbe, and as I mentioned, known in the American press as a Trump whisperer European that sometimes the president does listen to, he's able to get on the phone with. Certainly helps that he has a very good golf game. Danny, get the news you need in just 15 minutes.
- [08:24]
C
Start your day with Bloomberg Daybreak, the podcast with a global view on the stories that matter. I'm Nathan Hager.
- [08:30]
B
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- [08:37]
C
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- [08:42]
B
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- [08:46]
C
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