Bloomberg Talks

Episode: Former Meta COO & Author Sheryl Sandberg Talks Workplace Diversity
Date: December 9, 2025
Host: Emily Chang
Guest: Sheryl Sandberg (Former Meta COO, Author of “Lean In”)

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation between Bloomberg host Emily Chang and Sheryl Sandberg, former COO of Meta and author of “Lean In.” The discussion centers around the current state of workplace diversity, the rollback of DEI (Diversity, Equity, Inclusion) initiatives, industry trends affecting women’s advancement, and broader cultural narratives around gender roles in both policy and the workplace. Sandberg offers insight grounded in recent research, extensive business experience, and personal perspective, providing both actionable recommendations for organizations and a candid assessment of the challenges that persist today.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "Ambition Gap" and Corporate Priorities

• Women “leaning out”: Chang raises concerns that women are increasingly disengaging from the pursuit of promotions because it seems “not worth it” in the current climate.
• Sandberg’s Clarification: Not all women or companies are disengaging; rather, organizations are de-prioritizing advancement for women.
  • "About half of companies no longer prioritize advancement for women. And 21% of those companies say women's career advancement is a low or no priority at all." (Sandberg, 00:59)
• Statistical Gaps: Research from Sandberg’s 2025 “Women in the Workplace” report with McKinsey shows some of the “best” companies are pulling back, and where support is lacking, ambition gaps widen.

2. Systemic Barriers and the "Broken Rung"

• Bias in Advancement:
  • "For every 100 that get promoted, 93 women, 60 black women, 82 Latinas. That's because we hire and promote men based on potential and women for what they've already proven." (Sandberg, 01:43)
• Leadership Training Disparities: Men are 70% more likely to be tapped for leadership programs at the same job level as women.
• Treating women's career advancement as an economic imperative: “Do we want to get the best growth in our economy?...We’re at a fork in the road and companies have a decision to make.” (Sandberg, 02:43)

3. Policy Shifts and Societal Pressures (Natalist Policies)

• Trump Administration Natalist Push: Policies incentivizing women to have more children while rolling back workplace protections.
  • Sandberg calls this a rebranding of old ideas rather than true innovation.
  • “The great majority of women do not have the choice to be a full time mother...they have an economic reality that they have to wake up in the morning and leave their home to earn money.” (Sandberg, 03:14)
  • On “trad wife” rhetoric: “That's just telling these women that have to leave their home that it's going to harm their marriages and their kids. That's not what the data supports.” (Sandberg, 03:44)

4. The Attack on DEI and Historical Context

• Rollback and Backlash: Federal threats to DEI under the Trump administration; misconceptions about “special treatment.”
  • “Women got 59% of the college degrees, and women are 10% of Fortune 500 CEO jobs...Do you really think that 59% of the college degrees getting 10% of the jobs means there's systematic special treatment for women?” (Sandberg, 04:36)
• Legal, Actionable Solutions:
  • Use standardized, universally applied criteria for evaluations and feedback.
  • "1% of men get style-based feedback in performance reviews and 66% of women. What can companies do? You establish criteria in advance that everyone agrees to that are universally applied." (Sandberg, 05:29)

5. Meta, Internal Culture Shifts, and Sandberg’s Legacy

• DEI Policy Rollback at Meta: Reports of her legacy being blamed for now-dialed-back policies.
  • Sandberg disputes the narrative and points instead to data-driven recommendations for fair practices such as standardized interview questions and structures.
  • “So for example, interviews. If you don't have agreed upon questions...people sometimes ask the easier questions to the men and the harder questions to the women. Just standardize your questions.” (Sandberg, 06:42)

6. Rhetoric Change in Silicon Valley: Business or Values Shift?

• Chang asks if the anti-DEI shift is substantive or transactional.
• Sandberg sees cyclical progress and setbacks.
  • "We make progress, we backslide, we make progress, there's a backlash. I think the reason these ideas take hold so easily is they were never really gone." (Sandberg, 07:36)
• Generational Concerns:
  • “Eighth and tenth grade boys... in 2018... 63% said women should have the same opportunities as men... Today it's 45. We are seeing that same double ditch slide in middle and high school boys believing that women should get equal pay. That's not okay.” (Sandberg, 08:17)
  • Sandberg underscores this trend as a critical warning for the future.

7. Advice for Companies in the AI Era

• Chang pivots to how companies can build models that survive amid the current startup and AI “chaos.”
• Sandberg draws on her experience at Google and Meta:
  • “There’s times when it really makes sense to invest ahead of revenue and business models...but over time, the revenue is going to have to cover the costs.” (Sandberg, 09:22)
• Simplicity of business models:
  • “Someone has to pay. Who can pay? Businesses can pay...via advertising...via database services...It's not complicated.” (Sandberg, 09:53)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On advancement priorities slipping:
  • “About half of companies no longer prioritize advancement for women. And 21% of those companies say women's career advancement is a low or no priority at all.” – Sheryl Sandberg (00:59)
• On the broken rung of leadership:
  • “For every 100 that get promoted, 93 women, 60 black women, 82 Latinas. That's because we hire and promote men based on potential and women for what they've already proven.” – Sheryl Sandberg (01:43)
• On misunderstanding DEI:
  • “Do you really think that 59% of the college degrees getting 10% of the jobs means there's systematic special treatment for women?” – Sheryl Sandberg (04:36)
• On shifting rhetoric and backlash:
  • “We make progress, we backslide, we make progress, there's a backlash. I think the reason these ideas take hold so easily is they were never really gone.” – Sheryl Sandberg (07:36)
• On future economic productivity:
  • "This is about economic productivity. This is about do we want our companies to succeed?" – Sheryl Sandberg (08:52)
• On gender attitudes among young men:
  • “2018…63% [of boys] said yes [women should have the same opportunities]. Today it's 45. We are seeing that double ditch slide...” – Sheryl Sandberg (08:17)
• On business model clarity:
  • "People make it so complicated. It's not complicated. Ready. Someone has to pay. Who can pay? Businesses can pay. They can pay via advertising. They can pay via paying in some way, shape or form for database services or people have to pay. And it will be a combination of all of these things. But over time, the revenue is going to have to cover the costs." – Sheryl Sandberg (09:53)

Timestamps by Segment

• Ambition gap and lack of advancement: 00:41 – 02:52
• Natalist policy pressures: 02:52 – 04:18
• DEI rollbacks and legal solutions: 04:18 – 05:56
• Meta legacy and process standardization: 05:56 – 07:11
• Silicon Valley rhetoric shift and backlash cycles: 07:11 – 08:56
• Startups & AI-era business modeling advice: 08:56 – 10:13

Summary

This episode delivers a thought-provoking, data-driven exploration of the current and future state of workplace diversity and gender equity. Sheryl Sandberg shares both high-level trends—such as the backslide in DEI support and the “ambition gap”—and specific, actionable ways companies can correct course, including standardized feedback, interview processes, and genuine leadership investment in women.

With urgency, Sandberg warns against regression, especially among the younger generation’s attitudes, while encouraging businesses to see diversity as a route to economic growth. Her practical advice for navigating the convergence of business sustainability and technological change rounds out the conversation, making this episode essential listening for business leaders, policymakers, and advocates invested in the future of work.