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- [00:00]
Optum Narrator
Healthcare doesn't always work great. If you've ever waited on a refill or couldn't schedule an appointment, you get it. That's the kind of stuff Optum is changing. They're using data and technology to integrate patient care, pharmacy and everything else. So healthcare is connected, not complicated. What's that look like? Cheaper prescriptions that are easier to get and care that looks at the whole person how you need it. Optum is helping make healthcare work as one for everyone, everyone. Learn more@business.optum.com Bloomberg Audio Studios podcasts Radio
- [00:36]
Interviewer Katie
news well, let's keep the conversation going now with Andrew Cuomo, who's starting a second act, helping cryptocurrency exchange operator OK X and the owner of the New York Stock Exchange build a new business merging digital and traditional finance markets. Now, part of the plan would be to allow overseas users to trade tokenized U.S. equities. And I'm pleased to say that joining us now live is former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo himself. Governor Cuomo, great to have you with us. So let's start with the why here? Because you think about where you are in your career. What stuck out to you about this venture, and on the other side of that, why? Why would they go with you? What do you bring to this project?
- [01:19]
Andrew Cuomo
Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you very much for having me, Katie and Isabel. I actually started working with the crypto industry very early on. I was governor of New York in 2014. All right, let's say crypto hit a critical mass. 2009, 2014, New York State was the first state to pass a full regulatory regime for crypto. Because we saw the future, we saw the potential of the technology. And we wanted that technology in New York, we wanted those companies in New York. So we put forth a full regulatory requirement and started what's become known as the BIT license in New York. United States is still trying to work through that. But I've always believed that the technology is going to revolutionize the financial sector system for the better. For the better. Faster, more efficient, more access, 24, 7, better for the consumer and better for the economy. And what this joint venture says is a couple of things and exciting things. Number one, the long term vision for the joint venture is tokenized equities through ice, isis, the second largest change globally, largest in the United States. ICE owns New York Stock Exchange. And this would be literally tokenized equities through the New York Stock Exchange. Not synthetic, not wrapped, not some convoluted mechanism. You would own a share as a Token with all the rights that go there with short, that's the long term goal. Mid term goal, we're going to establish an FCM and a broker dealer. Short term, we already started OkX listed the Ice Oil Perpetuals. So that is exciting in and of itself. It also says to me, all this talk about traditional finance opposes the technology. You can't oppose technological advancements since the ticker tape, since electronic trading, it is going to happen. You can't put that back in the box. And there has been conflict, Right. Traditional finance people are worried about the change, worried about the disruption, as they should be. But what this says is you have, okay, X who is a global leader in financial technology and ICE and New York Stock Exchange, right? You put those two forces together as a biased New Yorker. New York Stock Exchange is the icon internationally for finance and trust and credibility. New York Stock Exchange, the origins are 234 years old, right? Only 250 years old. So the coming together of those two entities really shows there is no conflict. We're in the collaborate complement stage.
- [04:53]
Interviewer Katie
Well, Governor, I hear what you're saying, especially when you think about, you know, the legacy that the New York Stock Exchange has here. But as you said, the gold here is tokenized equities. And you know, you have to wonder, you think about what's being built already at Coinbase, Robinhood, Kraken, some of the ambitions that they have when it comes to tokenized equities. What do you think is going to differentiate what you're doing at OKX and ice, that joint venture that isn't already being done?
- [05:23]
Andrew Cuomo
Yeah, well, there are wrapped securities, there are synthetic securities. But the real goal, if you want to talk about true tokenization, right, and everybody uses that word, we're going to tokenize securities, tokenize real estate, tokenize equities, not in a wrapped synthetic form. A token represents a share of stock from the New York Stock Exchange. You have full voting rights, you have different dividend rights, you are a stock owner. That would then make the New York Stock Exchange first directly accessible, get rid of a lot of intermediaries 247 globally. Just think about that. Think about the capital flow that would go into the stock exchange. It would revolutionize the business. Now I say it's a long term goal because we have to get regulatory approvals and the United States is still working through its regulatory regime. Frankly, I think it's taken much too long. As I said, we did it in New York 2014. This is 12 years later. They still haven't passed meaningful legislation. That's the long term goal, but that's where we're headed with medium term goals, short term goals.
- [06:48]
Interviewer Isabel
In the meantime, Governor, you advise OkX before this partnership was announced. How do you respond to concerns that it was your advisory role that helped position you for this leadership? And moving forward, would you recuse yourself from any decision making when it comes to regulators that you yourself have appointed in the past?
- [07:05]
Andrew Cuomo
Yeah, there are no regular regulators that we're dealing with that I had anything to to do an appointing. These are basically federal regulators that we are dealing with. I was the federal Housing Secretary under Bill Clinton. But this is a totally different administration obviously than the Clinton administration and none of the state regulators I appointed.
- [07:32]
Interviewer Isabel
What about the fact that you advised before this partnership? Many have talked. It's one widely regulated. How would you discuss that and if you can talk about how you were compensated when you were an OKX adviser?
- [07:45]
Andrew Cuomo
Yeah, I worked with OK x 23, 24, 25, gave them advice, legal counsel, strategic counsel. Because as I said, I've been interested in this area for a long time. And OK X in my opinion is a not only a leading company, but factually internationally. But I got to know the owner, Star Shoe, who is brilliant and I don't use that word often. He is brilliant at this and he has a tremendous product and he has a tremendous grasp of technology. And I believe he is going to be a pioneer in developing the new financial technology that's going to drive us into the future. So I'm excited about that. You then put that together with ice, one of the largest exchanges on the globe with the New York Stock Exchange. That is tnt. That is dynamite. Right. And it really is going to explode, pardon the pun, the potential of this industry.
- [09:05]
Interviewer Katie
And I do want to zoom out and talk a little bit about, you know, the broader crypto regulatory picture outside of what you're doing with OK X and ice because you know, you think about yourself as a former Democratic leader and then you think about what's going on in the Senate. The Democrats in the Senate are pretty much at this point the main obstacle to finally passing the Clarity act here. I mean, what would you tell them about some of the lingering concerns that they have when it comes to this crypto legislation.
- [09:34]
Andrew Cuomo
Yeah, the I think the first point is you don't want to make this partisan. You don't want to blame Democrats. You want to don't want to blame Republicans because that is the problem. Pointing fingers doesn't work, especially in this federal government right now with the The Balkanization that we have, Democrats have concerns. They want consumer protections, they should have them. They want to make sure that aml, KYC is all in place. That should be in place. So I wouldn't say that the Democrats are the obstacle. I think they are going to have to work through issues, but I think they have to do it quickly. Look, government has often lagged behind changes in the market, always credit default swaps, electronic trading. Government was 9, 10 years in Maple rolls that governed what the market had already done. This is an extraordinarily long period of time. 2009, crypto takes off. We still don't have the rules in place, so called Clarity act, which is aptly named, which would provide clarity. Because what the companies are saying is, tell me the rules, tell me the regulations, I need a referee. Just tell me where the lines are on the field and what I can do and what I can't do.
- [11:12]
Interviewer Katie
Right.
- [11:12]
Andrew Cuomo
Well, the US has been slow.
- [11:15]
Interviewer Katie
Well, Governor, I hear what you're saying that, you know, when it comes to legislation, when it comes specifically to the Clarity act, you know, let's not make it a partisan issue. So if it's not, you know, the Senate Democrats that are the biggest obstacle here, what in your view is what is the main, main hurdle that's preventing this legislation from actually making it across the line?
- [11:36]
Andrew Cuomo
Yeah, it's new, it's different. It raises issues. You're talking about a restructuring of the traditional finance system. And traditional finance players are some of the most powerful people in the country. Right. And they want to make sure that the system is protected. So you have powerful concerns on both sides. You don't have the most cooperative Congress and Senate that I have seen and I've worked with many, and that is an understatement when I say they're not the most cooperative group that we've had. You do have a partisan dividend. I am hopeful and I'm, I'm hopeful because the US Is getting pushed. You look at what Europe has just done with Esma and Mica and kudos to the regulators. What they have done, they've opened up the market. It's good for the industry, it's good for the consumer. Because for this financial ecosystem to work, you need two elements. One, you need the product company like, okay, X Star Shoes, been at it for 13 years. He has the product. Second, you need trust. Trust. Trust comes from government regulation. All these people who say, oh, government regulation is the problem. No, it's not. Government regulation helps the private industry because it provides trust. People want to know they were protected. I was the Housing secretary. People wanted to know that when they signed the mortgage, they had protection, that the government had reviewed that mortgage and they were not going to get hurt by a bank. I was the attorney General in New York. People wanted to know when they bought securities that they were protected.
- [13:46]
Interviewer Katie
Right.
- [13:47]
Andrew Cuomo
They want to know now what are the rules and regulations and do we have regulators who are watching these companies to make sure the bad actors are eliminated and Europe has done that. And if the US doesn't move quickly, they are going to get past by.
- [14:08]
Interviewer Isabel
And speaking of trust, Governor, do you think that crypto legislation should include specific ethics provision when it comes to politicians in office right now and their families who have direct financial interests in crypto currencies?
- [14:21]
Andrew Cuomo
Well, the, that's one of the topics of debate in the Clarity Act. What can the sitting elected officials do, primarily in the federal government? You could argue that it should also apply to state officials who are in the regulation business of crypto. But one of the topics is what is their participation, allowable participation in the crypto industry. By the way, there's a bigger question. What is the allowable participation by sitting legislators in the equities market? In any of these markets? They're making the rules, right? They're making the law. They know what law they're going to pass or may pass. They can foresee the consequence of that law. So they, they have, in many ways, in my opinion, inside information. They're in the room talking about what the rules are going to be. Should they then be allowed to trade on those rules? Rules. So I think it's a much bigger issue, right, than crypto itself.
- [15:32]
Interviewer Katie
Well, Governor, of course, it's particularly in the news right now because you think about President Donald Trump, the disclosures that he's recently made, reporting earning at least $1.4 billion in 2025 from crypto specifically and from Meme coin related firms. Now, he has turned over running his business operations to his two, two eldest sons. But, you know, I wonder what you make of that, how this fits into this conversation, his own personal crypto investments and the profits that he's made from that.
- [16:03]
Andrew Cuomo
Yeah, I would hope that there are guidelines set up in this, in the Clarity Act. I believe public cynicism is very high, especially in the United States, especially on the federal level. And I would hope they build in full disclosure and clear ethics guidelines so the public knows they're not benefiting themselves by their actions.
- [16:32]
Interviewer Katie
Well, Governor, we really appreciate your time today. That is former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo. Thank you.
- [16:38]
Optum Narrator
Health care doesn't always work great. If you've ever waited on a refill or couldn't schedule an appointment, you get it. That's the kind of stuff Optum is changing. They're using data and technology to integrate patient care, pharmacy and everything else. So healthcare is connected, not complicated. What's that look like? Cheaper prescriptions that are easier to get, and care that looks at the whole person how you need it. Optum is helping make healthcare work as one for everyone. Learn more@business.optum.com.