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Indiana University Narrator
Indiana University is proving how higher education can create solutions with industry. We're working side by side with industry partners to fuel economic growth that powers a future ready workforce. Explore IU's impact at iu.edu impact.
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Bloomberg Announcer
Bloomberg.
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Amy Morris
Audio Studios Podcasts, radio news talk about.
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Interviewer / Host
These geopolitical issues, you said. I was joined on set here on the Pulse with Vice President, former Vice President Mike Pence. We thank you so much for your time. Welcome to London.
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Mike Pence
Thank you. Thanks for having me on.
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Interviewer / Host
It's a thrill to have you. Well, as my colleague Francine just said, it's a big day in Washington today. We have Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman coming and visiting President Donald Trump as well. This is a relationship that's really deepened over the last couple of years and certainly since his trip to May, to Riyadh in May as well. What do you make of that deepening alliance between the United States and the Middle East? You would think that these are two places that would be in competition when it comes to the oil markets. When it comes to defense, we're seeing the opposite. What do you think?
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Mike Pence
Well, I think it's important to remember the very first days of our administration. Back in 2017, President Trump's first international trip was to a conference of Arab nations in Riyadh. From very early on, we sensed that it was important to begin not just with Saudi Arabia, but to reach out to Arab countries, even while we stood without apology for our most cherished ally, Israel. I mean, we, we moved the American Embassy to Jerusalem. We recognized the Golan Heights. Many said that would be inconsistent with peace in the region. But what they forgot was that President Trump, in our four years together, aggressively reached out to Arab nations. At the same time, we isolated Iran, which is a leading state sponsor of terrorism in the region, and at the end of our four years signed the Abraham Accords. And my hope is, as NBS comes to the House today, that in addition to the other issues that I'm sure will be discussed from the standpoint of AI and energy and others is I am hopeful the president will engage the crown prince very directly on the need for Saudi Arabia to lead other nations into an expansion of the Abraham Accords.
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Interviewer / Host
Well, to your point, that's a key pillar of one of the successes in the first administration under, under Donald Trump. You mentioned that key piece of the kind of withstanding support for Israel, Donald Trump talking earlier this week about actually selling F35 fighter jets to Saudi Arabia. As you know, this has been a contentious issue, especially among several of the Middle Eastern allies. There do you think this is going to have ripple effects if you sell F35 jets to Saudi Arabia? Are more going to be knocking more other nations going to be knocking at America's door? And is that a good thing?
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Mike Pence
Well, the F35 is our most advanced aircraft stealth technology. And I'm very confident that as the President gives consideration to the sale of F35 to Saudi Arabia or any other country that will put the interest of America first. It's, it's extremely important in any sale that, that we ensure that, that that technology does not make its way into China's hands or into hands of other adversarial nations. And so I have concerns about the sale of F35s to Saudi Arabia or, or any nation that could not states that technology and, and the, the great advancements that we made with the F35 don't, don't fall into the hands of nations that are hostile to our interests.
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Interviewer / Host
You're not alone in those concerns. Have you seen this before in your time as Vice President, the sale of these, this high technology, one of America's finest, to the countries that maybe don't rise to the ranks of some of the other closer allies?
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Mike Pence
Well, I think one of the things that our administration did in our four years was recognize that China is the great and strategic threat facing the United States. And we, we imposed historic tariffs on China. We brought China to the table for the phase one trade deal, which you may remember from January of 2020. But I have concerns that with the administration allowing TikTok to continue to operate despite the fact that Congress and the previous administration passed a law saying it must be sold or banned within a set period of time. And the recent arrangement, Nvidia to sell significant chip technology to China just simply in exchange for a revenue sharing agreement with the United States. I think it's absolutely essential that we continue to put the security of the United States and our ability to defend our interest and our treaty allies across the region as China continues its military provocations and, and its extraordinary investments in its own military technology. And that would be my concern with any, any weapons sale to any country around the world.
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Interviewer / Host
Well, Vice President, let's continue our tour around the world and talk there about China and the relationship, the deepening relationship, it seems, with not only Russia, but India as well. Earlier this year, we had images of Vladimir Putin, Narendra Modi and Xi Jinping arm in arm at the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. I was in Washington at the time, and they really caused shock waves in terms of this action. Axis that you are seeing on the other side of the ocean, on the other side of the Pacific. Do you feel like those images as they were interpreted at the time showed that the United States is losing its dominance on the world stage?
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Mike Pence
Well, I think there's no question that nature abhors a vacuum and that's equally true on the world stage. And the previous administration in so many ways projected weakness on the world stage. The disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan. The Biden administration actually, after inflation, actually cut military spending in the United States. And particularly after Afghanistan. We saw Russia launch its brutal and unprovoked invasion into Ukraine. We saw Hamas surge across the borders of Gaza with the most brutal assault on the Jewish people since the Holocaust. And we've seen China continue its, its military provocations across the Asia Pacific. When, when we were in office we spoke about what the new Trump administration speaks about and that is peace through strength. And I think the relationship between the United States and our allies across the free world has never been more important and trade is a part of that. I would hasten to add that I believe in free trade with free nations. And the President's unilateral tariffs imposed on friend and foe alike I think have been contrary to the long term interest and prosperity of the West. We ought to be working always to lower trade barriers and lower, lower non tariff barriers and subsidies. That's what we did during our four years. We used tariffs and the threat of tariffs to negotiate to open markets. But what we're seeing in this new Trump administration is the use of broad based tariffs that I think ultimately harm US Consumers, harm growth, but also more profoundly, they really threatened to fray long standing relationships in the free world at just the time that we need them stronger than ever before.
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Interviewer / Host
Well, Vice President, they're also being used as a mechanism not only to encourage free trade but also to add pressure on countries like India, like Brazil, that are perhaps helping and fuel some, fueling some of the goals in China and Russia as well, especially when it comes to, to the United States relationship in defending or at least helping support the fight for or the war, the Ukrainians efforts and against the war from Russia. Talk to us a little bit about that relationship and that dynamic when it comes to the European Union and the UK as well. Historically, Europe and the United States have been arm in arm. But when it has come to this conflict, at least in the second Trump administration, we do seem to be seeing wobble in that steadfast defense Donald Trump has on the campaign trail. And of course in this year promised and assured the global community there would not only be a cease fire, but a lasting agreement based on his friendship with Vladimir Putin. Why has that not come to fruition in your mind?
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Mike Pence
Well, I. Well, first off, I. I've been a steadfast supporter of US Military assistance to Ukraine. I mean, Russia's unprovoked invasion has cost hundreds of thousands of lives. And America is the leader of the free world. And it's absolutely essential that we continue to uphold the principle that we will not allow authoritarian regimes to redraw international lines by force. A century ago, we looked the other way as authoritarian regimes marched across Europe and. And the. The world inherited the whirlwind and the tragedy of World War II. And so I think it's important the United States continue to stay firm. I'm pleased that the Trump administration has gotten to a better place after, as you said, stops and starts on support for Ukraine. But I do think the time has come for the United States Senate to put strong secondary sanctions on President Trump's desk. Sanctions on countries that are purchasing energy from Russia, that are literally, through those purchases, they're fueling the Russian war machine. I called on that this summer, and, frankly, I was encouraged that just a few days ago, President Trump said that he was okay with the secondary sanctions bill Senator Lindsey Graham authored. I think Vladimir Putin will not stop until he is stopped.
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Interviewer / Host
Yeah.
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Mike Pence
The Ukrainian military has fought bravely. The European Community, with strong leadership from the UK And America, have provided support. But at the end of the day, I think isolating Russia economically with those secondary sanctions could well be the key, key to moving us toward a peaceful settlement and a just and lasting peace.
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Interviewer / Host
Vice President, you talk about these secondary sanctions. Europe, the EU has only recently put sanctions on. On Russia. There's still parts of the EU that are importing that kind of energy. Does America need Europe to hold Russia accountable? Can America go at it alone? That's the. That's the narrative that Donald Trump has taken when it comes to his negotiations at the Munich Security Conference at NATO. So can America do it alone?
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Mike Pence
Well, you know, in my first trip to Europe in 2017 as Vice President, I said, America first does not mean America alone. It simply means America embracing our first obligations at home and secondly, embracing our role as leader of the free world. And I believe during our four years, we actually strengthened our alliances across NATO. Before we left office at the end of four years, our NATO allies were investing $140 billion in our common defense that had not been invested before. More than two thirds were now living up to the commitment we've made to our common defense. I think the ability the European Community has had to support Ukraine against this Russian invasion was greatly enhanced by those years that we strengthened NATO. But look at a time that we see authoritarian regime regimes rising and increasing their provocations, whether it be Russia or whether it be China or Iran, as they languish quietly after America taking down their nuclear program and Israel taking the fight directly to them. I think now more than ever we need to bring together the free world, say that we're going to stand for our principles, defend our interests, and we'll continue to call for that.
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Interviewer / Host
All right, Vice President Mike Pence, we thank you so much for your time. A true tour around the world Old.
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Indiana University Narrator
Playbooks won't solve tomorrow's problems Indiana University is redefining the relationship between higher education and industry. We're addressing future talent and workforce needs through more than 10,000 industry partnerships, supporting and investing in young entrepreneurs and businesses that create jobs and grow the economy, and facilitating the research and development that lead to breakthrough solutions. This isn't business as usual. Indiana University + Industry is a partnership that fuels economic growth. Explore IU's impact at IU. Edu impact.
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Amy Morris
You can get the news whenever you want it with Bloomberg News Now. I'm Amy Morris.
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Karen Moscow
And I'm Karen Moscow, here to tell you about our new On Demand News report delivered right to your podcast Feedback. Bloomberg News now is a short 5 minute audio report on the day's top stories. Episodes are published throughout the day with the latest information and data to keep you informed.
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Amy Morris
Yes, there are other products like this from a variety of news organizations, but they usually rerun their radio newscasts throughout the day. That's not what we do. We create customized episodes that can only be heard on Bloomberg News Now.
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Karen Moscow
And we don't wait an hour to publish breaking news. When news breaks, we'll have an episode up in your podcast feed within minutes. So you're always getting the latest stories and developments.
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Amy Morris
Get the reporting and the context from Bloomberg's 3,000 journalists and analysts. We're all over the world. Listen to the latest from Bloomberg News now on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere you listen.