Gene Simmons Talks American Music Fairness Act

Summary

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Bloomberg Talks: Gene Simmons on the American Music Fairness Act

Date: December 10, 2025
Host: Bloomberg
Guest: Gene Simmons

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Episode Overview

In this episode, legendary Kiss frontman Gene Simmons joins Bloomberg to discuss his recent advocacy for the American Music Fairness Act (AMFA). The conversation centers on issues of royalty payments for recording artists, music industry regulation, consolidation in radio, and broader implications for the future of American music—touching on everything from AI and IP law to the motivations of up-and-coming musicians.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The American Music Fairness Act: What’s at Stake?

• Unfair Compensation for Artists (02:11–03:34)

  • Gene passionately argues that American radio stations (AM and FM) pay nothing to performers for airplay, unlike other countries—even Russia—where artists are paid.
  • Quote:

    “The astonishing, stunning and shameful fact is that no matter who you hear on AM and FM radio, they're getting zero pennies for the airplay.” — Gene Simmons (02:29)

  • Cites icons like Jimi Hendrix and Elvis Presley who, despite their legendary status, have never been paid for radio spins.

• Contrast with Other Platforms (05:30–05:41)

  • Recognizes that satellite and digital platforms do compensate artists, underscoring how “behind the times” radio remains.

• Legislative Progress & Presidential Support (07:50–09:04)

  • Gene met privately with lawmakers (Sen. Marsha Blackburn and Rep. Adam Schiff) and affirmed “a lot of support” for the bill from both parties.
  • While he spent time with the President in the Oval Office, specifics of their conversation remain private.
  • Quote:

    “Let’s just say as soon as Congress gets their act together, the President will sign this. I am convinced of it.” — Gene Simmons (08:56)

2. Radio’s Business Model and Ongoing Consolidation

• Radio Makes Billions, Artists Get Nothing (05:11–05:28)
  • Radio earned $14 billion last year; none of it went to the performers whose music fuels the industry.
  • Quote:

    “Radio last year made $14 billion. You know how much of that went to the Sinatra estate or Tame Impala or all the new bands?... Yeah.” — Gene Simmons (05:12–05:28)

• Consolidation Making Things Worse? (06:35–07:50)
  • Host points to industry consolidation (iHeart, Odyssey) and how it hasn’t improved outcomes for artists.
  • Gene likens it to being run over by a truck: “The result is nothing's changed. The artists are not getting [paid].” (07:02)

3. Gene Simmons as a Businessman and Artist

• Kiss Catalog Sale & Future Projects (09:04–10:25)

  • Correcting a Bloomberg report, Gene details the recent Kiss sale to Sweden’s Pophouse, encompassing branding as well as publishing rights.
  • Quote:

    “An entity called Pophouse...came and bought Kiss. The underlying rights, the makeup logos, as well as the writing publishing for a respectable sum. Enough to buy Rhode Island.” — Gene Simmons (09:17)

• Embracing Transformation (10:02–10:28)

  • Sees Kiss’s future as entering a “cocoon phase” before soaring, invoking the metaphor of caterpillars to butterflies.
  • Quote:

    “You’re short sighted. You don’t understand that it’s going into a cocoon, which is where we are now. And we’re going to come out and defy gravity with beautiful wings and soar to the heavens.” — Gene Simmons (10:25)

4. Why Chase Down Old Formats Like Radio? (10:55–11:48)

• Despite innovations and lucrative deals in new media and licensing, Gene feels a moral imperative to fight for fairness in radio:
  • Quote:

    “Somewhere between paying artists 0 and 14 billion billion, there should be a...” — Gene Simmons (11:16)

5. AI and the Future of Music Rights

• Worries About Lack of Regulation (12:09–13:53)
  • Gene expresses deep concern about the unchecked rise of AI-generated music and the absence of a unified legal framework.
  • Advocates for federal (and even international/UN-level) laws to manage IP, income streams, and protect creators.
  • Quote:

    “Anything—a beautiful horse that you just bring in—if it runs wild, you’ve got to have some parameters that we control instead of AI.” — Gene Simmons (12:11)

  • Warns of “AI gold rush” states without federal oversight; calls for global collaboration.

6. Advice to Aspiring Musicians (13:53–14:47)

• Recommends having a fallback plan since “95% or more” will likely not succeed in the music business.
• Shares his own backup experiences as a teacher and various assistant roles before finding success.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Injustice Faced by Performers:

  “Americans do not [pay performing artists on radio], and this has got to change and should change.” — Gene Simmons (03:34)

• On AI and the Law:

  “If states have the right...the government must get a federal law that encompasses all of AI to get some sanity out of this.” — Gene Simmons (12:34)

• On the American Dream for New Artists:

  “New artists, every penny counts. And the fact that they can be played on radio and not even make one penny for their performance is criminal.” — Gene Simmons (03:53)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:59: Gene Simmons testimony clip before Congress
• 02:11: The roots and global impact of American music
• 03:11: Example of Jimi Hendrix receiving no radio royalties
• 05:12: Breakdown of radio business and artist compensation
• 07:02: Effects of radio consolidation on payments
• 08:44: Lawmaker and presidential support for AMFA
• 09:17: Kiss sale details and industry transformation
• 10:55: Why old formats like radio still matter
• 12:11: Thoughts on AI and the need for regulation
• 14:00: Advice for the next generation of musicians

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Tone and Language

Throughout the episode, Gene Simmons maintains his signature charisma—witty, unapologetically candid, and frequently self-referential. The host keeps pace with Gene’s energy, probing thoughtfully while allowing space for Gene’s metaphors, asides, and bold statements.

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Takeaway

This conversation provides rare insight into the legislative gaps in music royalties, the evolving business of music, and the risks (and opportunities) posed by new technologies—delivered with Gene Simmons’s unmistakable blend of showmanship and seriousness. Simmons makes a powerful case for immediate Congressional action on artist compensation, and delivers a sobering, pragmatic outlook for future music-makers.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News. We zero in specifically on the connection between Washington and the music industry regulation. And I'll point you no further than an op ed in the Washington Post. The headline, congress, I have a plea for you. It was written by Gene Simmons. Yes, that Gene Simmons, who was on stage at the Kennedy center last weekend, the Kennedy Center Awards. You saw him in the Oval Office with Donald Trump. And you also saw him testifying on Capitol Hill yesterday before the Judiciary Committee for something called the AMFA Act. This is about music fairness, royalties. Listen to what he said.

[C]

How do we dare come in second to Russia, an alleged country led by a despot, when they do a better job of paying our king of rock and roll? And we're going to stand by and not pay today's artists and future artists because, let's face it, our children are tomorrow's stars. You got to change this now for our children and our children's children. And I know you will. The president will sign this once. All you guys respectfully get your act together and put this across the board. Let's do the right thing. God bless America.

[B]

He's talking about the American Music Fairness Act's proposed legislation that may or may not get a floor vote. But of course, with the support of the president, that would go a long way. It's got the support of Gene Simmons, and he's with us right now in studio. You spent the week in Washington. Thanks for making us part of it.

[C]

Well, it's my pleasure. And people are shocked. I'll try to encapsulate what all this is for. I know it's a big word, like gymnasium. Look, I don't care what kind of music you listen to, but the American.

Music, let's just stop at that point. American music means we created and invented the music of planet Earth. Rock and roll, blues, jazz, hip hop, country and western, all invented and created. Our stars are the stars of planet Earth. You can go to Africa and hear you ain't nothing. But no matter where you go every Christmas, everywhere around the world, people listen to Bing Crosby. I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas written by Irving Berlin. The astonishing, stunning and shameful fact is that no matter who you hear on AM and FM radio, they're getting zero pennies for the airplay. So let's play a game who's your favorite recording artist?

[B]

Kiss?

[C]

No. Come on. Somebody from the past.

[B]

All right. Jimi Hendrix.

[C]

Jimi Hendrix. Jimi Hendrix has never in his entire career or now ever gotten paid a single penny when his music is played on AM&FM radio. The stunning fact is that the Russians and some other countries actually do pay performing artists on Radio.

Land Radio, AM fm. And Americans do not. And this has got to change and should change. Look, I make a living. And people of my age who've climbed the mountain, clawed and scratched their way to the top, were blessed by the American dream because it is alive and I'm living proof of it. So I make a living. New artists, every penny counts. And the fact that they can be played on radio and not even make one penny for their performance is criminal.

[B]

So this is surprising to a lot of people. We're on the radio right now. You see that big radio mic in front of you? It's such a good radio show, Gene. They put it on tv. And I've been knocking around the radio business for a minute. We hear about BMI and ASCAP fees. Has this always been the case or was it simply an exchange? You play my music for exposure, for publicity, and I sell tickets and albums, and that's now out of balance. Is that what happened?

[C]

Artists are not interested in negotiating how their careers are built.

[B]

Understood?

[C]

Radio needs.

[B]

Where did the recording BMI fees go?

[C]

Ascap and BMI specifically relates to writers and publishers, which doesn't affect the masses whatsoever.

[B]

So is this radio's fault or your contract with the record company? How come the middleman isn't giving you money?

[C]

Nothing to do with the record company. Because they make money when they sell records. And writers, producers. This is the actual recording artist. You like Elvis, you like Sinatra. When you hear that song on the radio, the people we tune in for actually never get paid.

[B]

Amazing.

[C]

Everybody else gets paid. The writers and the publishers and the advertising dollars. Radio last year made $14 billion. You know how much of that went to the Sinatra state or Tame Impala or all the new bands?

[B]

I think I'm getting zero.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. That's in contrast to satellite radio, digital platforms.

[C]

But we're not talking about that.

[B]

No, I know, but I just want to square that. You're suggesting the radio industry is behind the times because all of these other platforms are saying.

[C]

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm stating fact that AM FM radio is. Well, I want to use language that doesn't get anybody legal involved in the patois of the street. It's criminal. You cannot America is based on the premise that if you work hard, you should. So everybody's getting paid. When a radio station, AM&FM broadcasts, the executives get paid. The advertisers pay money. The billboards on the street which use our name and likeness for free. If you use my name and likeness, otherwise I would take your firstborn and your house. But radio is allowed to do that. They keep 14 billion. And the new artist, by the way, who's trying hard to make it, is not going to make those precious pennies to help them survive. And that's as far as I'm concern. My opinion is it's criminal.

[B]

Listeners you write in the op ed are more likely today to discover new music on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, TikTok. At the same time, more and more local stations have been bought up by big corporations like iHeart and Odyssey. They still play the music without paying the artists. Often hits that listeners already know in order to generate ad revenue. I've, as I mentioned, worked in radio for a while and I've seen rampant consolidation in this business. Has that made it worse?

[C]

Well, one way or the other, whether it's consolidated but fewer potential payers, the result is the same. A truck runs you over and the guy comes out and says I'm sorry I ran you over, I didn't mean to do it or I don't like you, I ran you over. What's the difference? You've been run over. So the question is an interesting dialectic, another big word like gymnasium. The result is nothing's changed. The artists are not getting, I mean especially our children and our children's children are going to be the next generation superstars after they climb their way to the top and fight for it. And what do they have forward to look? What do they have, you know, looking forward? They're going to get zero pennies when their songs are played on AM and FM radio. And that's insane.

[B]

Do you have the president's support on this? Did you talk to him about it?

[C]

I spent some time with the President alone in the oval office and we talked about family and I've known the president proud to say before he became a politician. But what else we talked about is a private issue.

[B]

Okay, so that wasn't about legislation.

[C]

I guess I didn't say that. But you're leading the witness, your honor.

[B]

Oh, not to. Well, I wouldn't think that would be private.

[C]

Well, these are semantics, but I'm not anti semantic.

[B]

I hope that you're not because we.

[C]

Wouldn'T be able to, you Let's. A little clickbait there. What I talked. Yes, I specifically said what I spoke with the President about is not for anybody else's consumption.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Well, there is such a thing as privacy.

[B]

I completely understand. I only ask you because so many lawmakers come on the air and say if we get a directive from the president, we can make this work. What did you hear in the committee from. From members? Did you get a sense? I've heard a lot of votes on this.

[C]

I've heard a lot of support.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I met privately with Senator Marsha Blackmun and Mr. Schiff. Both sides of the aisle seem.

Let's just say as soon as Congress gets their act together, the president will sign this. I am convinced of it. My personal opinion.

[B]

Well, our audience should know, and you're talking to the business community right now, that you are no stranger to big business. And some pretty shrewd moves. It was a Bloomberg report when you sold your publishing rights last year. Pophouse Entertainment. $300 million.

[C]

That's not entirely accurate. So just here to correct it for the record, please. An entity called Pophouse, a futuristic company out of Sweden, came and bought Kiss. The underlying rights, the makeup logos, as well as the writing publishing for a respectable sum. Enough to buy Rhode Island. I give you a pregnant pause. So that it sinks in. But the future looks even more gargantuan than the past. We are in the middle of the first motion picture to be directed by McG. There's an awful lot of stuff that I can't talk about because nobody wants to find out what they're going to get for Christmas in July.

[B]

Fair enough.

[C]

There is an enormous commitment by Pophouse and the future of Kiss. And this is just the beginning. When you look at a caterpillar and you say, well, that's the end of its life. No, you're short sighted. You don't understand that it's going into a cocoon, which is where we are now. And we're going to come out and defy gravity with beautiful wings and soar to the heavens.

[B]

Very poetic.

[C]

I am kind of a big deal.

[B]

I've heard that. And a poet.

[C]

I was a fan, actually, of Bloomberg when he was mayor. Met the gentleman and he struck me as a powerful and attractive man.

[B]

Well, I can only agree with that.

[C]

And I loved his algorithm that made him rich and fish, but that's another story.

[B]

Well, I'll tell you what. We've got the terminal right here. I'm sure there's a disclaimer I'm supposed to read Somewhere. But with everything you just described, you just outlined the future of the music business. Why are you chasing down the old format?

[C]

Well, look, the old formats are, if they worked and they were justified, should and would continue. But tell me what your retort is, even though I know you're not retorted.

How do you validate our stars, the people who fought their way to the top never getting a cent for radio airplay? How do you validate that while radio is making $14 billion? Again, I'm not demonizing them. It bears noting we need each other. But somewhere between paying artists 0 and 14 billion billion, there should be a. Remember, the name of the act is Fairness American Music Fairness Act. You should let me talk more. I can increase your. You know, more people will watch this instead of spongebob squarepants.

[B]

Come on. Believe that. That's why you're here. Nobody gets this much time, Simmons. Okay, so you said a lot. While we consider the future of the music business, do you worry about AI regulation? Do you worry about these fake old bans coming up? Speaking of algorithms, and by the way, Mike Bloomberg, his not only the boss here, but founder Chairman Bloomberg lp.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

AI is a worry for you or not.

[C]

AI is a concern if left unregulated. Anything a beautiful horse that you just bring in if it runs wild, you've got to have some parameters that we control instead of AI Right now, there's a country in Western Star that's got a number one record of sorts on some chart. Doesn't actually exist.

[B]

Yeah. What do you think of that?

[C]

Well, let me just go. The major problem here, potentially, hypothetically and otherwise, is that if states have the right, and this has to be settled right away, the government must get a federal law that encompasses all of AI to get some sanity out of this. Because if you can do AI legally in Delaware, where you have all your companies, so you don't pay, so you pay less taxes because you're a very bright man besides being good looking.

Why should they want to do real music and real art in New York when they can just go to Delaware and do AI? No, you need a federal law that encompasses the entire country. And I would highly recommend, and I would hope the entire planet really gets together. It's an issue for the UN to get a world body to accept it, because it's going to happen to the same thing that happened to the unions in America. You charge too much here. So we'll do business in China. No, you want to address the AI issue worldwide so we can control what the rules are the comings and the going. And what's the income stream? Who owns the ip? Who's the owner of the trademark ad infra. And I'd like to announce that I'm running for.

[B]

If you were a kid, you bought a guitar, you wanted to get in the music business, what would you tell them? Turn and run?

[C]

Well, I would tell anyone to do as I did, which is to say to have a fallback position. Because anything that you pour your heart and soul into has a pretty good chance. And that means likely 95% or more, you will fail. And in my case, I became a sixth grade teacher and an assistant to the editor of the Vogue magazine, Kate Lloyd, and the assistant to the Puerto Rican Interagency Council, Magdalena Miranda, for the Boricua community, where I did work for a government research and demonstration project, ad infinitum, ad nauseam. In other words, if your thing doesn't work out, what's the backdrop? Like, I know you took ballet lessons. If this doesn't work out and I've.

[B]

Lost my jobs, I'm not keeping up with it. Yeah, it's pretty cool for you to be here and I appreciate it very much. It is the American Music Fairness Act. That's what he came here to talk about. You don't need me to tell you. Gene Simmons.

[A]

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[B]

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[C]

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