Interviewer/Journalist (4:13)

I'm glad you clarified that point, since we did hear from Iran's envoy claiming that they did see some targeted attacks. When it comes to what's going on in Natanz, I do want to talk about what your, your organization's risk role is here, since you did have a technical role, of course, when it comes to the diplomatic efforts between Iran and the US I know you said earlier today that you're frustrated to see the collapse of those efforts, but how do you view the role that the IAEA has here and whether or not there's anything you can do to bridge that gap?

Rafael Mariano Grossi (4:45)

Well, our role is simply indispensable. As you know, the iaea, AKA the Nuclear Watchdog, we are the nuclear inspector all over the world of all nuclear facilities. And in particular, we have been having a process with Iran, a process which has not been an easy one because Iran has not always complied with all their obligations in terms of informing of everything they were doing. But we were having this relationship since the the war. We lost some access, important accesses to places where we used to inspect, including these three main sites, you know, Fordow, Natanz and Isfahan. And we were in this sort of talking past each other, we requesting them to have access to these facilities, and Iran putting a number of reasons why or arguing that we could not return for this or that reason. Of course, the mediation led by the Omani foreign Minister started. And at some point when the conversations started to acquire some momentum, they judge, and rightly so, that the presence of the Director General of the IAEA would add to the realism and the concreteness of this conversation. Because in nuclear diplomacy, you can express a general principle, for example, not have nuclear weapons or enrich only for medical purposes. But then you have to turn that general principle into something concrete. What does that mean? What are you planning to do? Where? How many centrifuges? How many cascades? What are the levels of enrichment, how are you going to verify that? And for that, of course, each side may have its own ideas, but we, we as iaea, we can tell this is what is necessary for this stated intention or activity and then propose the necessary verification. Any agreement without verification is just a piece of paper. It's not an agreement, it's an illusion of an agreement. So I think this was making our presence around that table indispensable. So we have to see now what's going to happen next.

Interviewer/Journalist (7:09)

And I am curious, I mean, this is the second time in less than a year that we've seen these negotiations be interrupted by a military strike. You referenced that 12 day war back in June. And with that in mind, Director General, do you feel that diplomacy is still the only option out of this conflict?

Rafael Mariano Grossi (7:27)

Well, in my opinion, yes. When you, if you want to define a durable, long lasting, stable solution. So of course, at the moment we are in the middle, the midst of a conflict, of a military operation. So the countries participating or the belligerents may have a different idea. From my perspective, what we see is that even with this kinetic phase of the conflict, at some point this will come to an end, hopefully sooner rather than later. And when that happens, you will still have a question mark around these activities, these nuclear activities, and we will have to go back to the negotiating table. This is what we mean when we say we need a diplomatic solution.

Interviewer/Journalist (8:28)

And next week, my understanding is that you're meeting with Emmanuel Macron of France, France, which just announced that it's preparing to increase the number of nuclear weapons in its stockpile because basically it's uncertain of US Security guarantees. And I'm curious to hear your perspective on how you're interpreting those decisions.

Rafael Mariano Grossi (8:47)

Well, I would say that all of these decisions and what is happening not only in France, but in other countries, in at least in all nuclear weapon states, as recognized by the Treaty on the Non Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. We see that given the strategic fragmentation, given the degree of polarization that we are seeing in the world, unfortunately we are in a phase where there is, we may, you know, be frustrated by these. But there is an increased reliance on nuclear weapons. And this is a concerning development, but it's the reality. It is the reality. We would like to see a world with less nuclear weapons. We would like to see eventually a world without nuclear weapons. You may remember that at some point even the President of the United States, the previous President of the United States was talking about, about that. But today, as we see the world, the world as it is we are seeing an increased reliance on nuclear weapons, in part maybe because of what you mentioned. Countries are looking at their own security in terms of their autonomy to take their own security decisions without depending on someone else. We believe that an increased number of nuclear weapons perhaps is not the ideal way to secure a more stable and peaceful world. But this is the reality that we are seeing. And from my perspective from the iaea, what concerns us is the fact that countries that heretofore have not had nuclear weapons are talking about that. Because you mentioned France. France, of course. France is one of the five countries according to the Treaty on the Non Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. By the way, in coincidence, the five permanent members of the Security Council, they have an arsenal and perhaps this arsenal goes up or goes down. It's not going to change the overall equation. But what we are seeing, and this is more troubling, is that countries that up until now where.

Interviewer/Journalist (11:05)

Director General, unfortunately we are up against the clock. Really hate to cut you off, really appreciate your time. That is Rafael Mariano Grossi, Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency.

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