Instant Reaction: Judge Rejects Subpoenas of Fed in Powell Case, DOJ to Appeal

Summary

Bloomberg Talks Podcast Summary

Episode: Instant Reaction: Judge Rejects Subpoenas of Fed in Powell Case, DOJ to Appeal
Date: March 13, 2026
Host: Bloomberg
Featured Guests/Analysts:

• June Grasso, Bloomberg Legal Analyst
• Michael McKee, Bloomberg Economics and Policy Correspondent
• Tim O’Brien, Bloomberg Opinion Senior Executive Editor
• Additional Bloomberg hosts/co-hosts and political/economic commentators

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Overview:

This episode offers immediate analysis of a major legal and political development: a federal judge has rejected subpoenas issued by U.S. Attorney for Washington, D.C., Jeanine Pirro, to the Federal Reserve in the Jay Powell case. The conversation delves into legal reasoning, political motivations, implications for Federal Reserve independence, and the ongoing impact of the Trump administration’s strategies—exploring the entangled confirmation process for Kevin Warsh as Powell’s potential successor.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Judge’s Rejection of Subpoenas Against the Fed (01:59–04:16)

• Breaking News Recap:

  • U.S. Attorney Jeanine Pirro is vowing to push her investigation into Fed Chair Jay Powell, despite a judge quashing subpoenas to the Fed—a move that postpones the confirmation of Kevin Warsh as Powell’s replacement.
  • Economic and legal analysts break down the ruling and its legal, political, and institutional implications.

• Legal Rationale (Rule 3:17):

  • The court cited lack of evidence and overt political motivation, interpreting the subpoenas as unreasonable and oppressive under Federal criminal procedure.
  • Quote (June Grasso, 03:13):
    “They've presented no evidence. On the other side, there's a mountain of evidence that this is about retribution against Powell by Trump, and that's why Judge Boasberg put that out there. So political.”

• Political Backdrop:

  • The ruling’s introduction included a compilation of social posts by President Trump, a highly unusual legal approach highlighting the political vendetta aspect.
  • Quote (Legal Analyst, 03:05):
    “So, wait, the judge started with a page and a half of social posts by President Trump.”

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Judge Boasberg’s Profile and Controversy (04:02–05:16)

• Judge Boasberg’s Background:
  • Known for rulings against the Trump administration and past controversies.
  • Appointed by both Republican and Democratic presidents, Democrats and Republicans have both called him “activist”—a label guests note has lost all meaning due to partisan overuse.
  • Quote (Legal Analyst, 04:51):
    “You really can't put any credit on that because they call dyed in the wool Republican judges appointed by Ronald Reagan activists.”

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The Fed, Politics, and Legal Next Steps (05:35–08:50)

• Powell’s Position:

  • Powell is neither celebrating nor at ease, as an appeal is imminent.
  • The Fed had always maintained there was no crime, a view echoed by Senate leadership and now the judge.
  • The judge’s opinion likened the “get Powell” campaign to a political vendetta—referencing “Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?” and casting Pirro as Trump’s instrument.
  • Quote (Economic Analyst, 06:33):
    “…Jeanine Pirro is the person who's trying to do that.”

• Next Legal Steps:

  • Pirro plans to appeal and request reconsideration, initially citing alleged date misstatements in the ruling—considered legally weak grounds.
  • The D.C. attorney’s office has consistently failed to secure grand jury indictments in similar overcharged cases.
  • Perjury or misleading testimony cases are notoriously hard to win—even referencing the failed Barry Bonds prosecution as an analogy.

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Impact on Fed Succession and Warsh Nomination (09:23–11:37)

• Powell’s Tenure:

  • Powell can serve as a Fed governor until January 2028 but may remain as acting chair if a successor isn’t confirmed.
  • FOMC (Federal Open Market Committee) has latitude to elect its own chair until confirmation.

• Political Gridlock:

  • GOP Sen. Tom Tillis vows to block Warsh’s nomination as long as the legal battle drags on, meaning no quick succession.
  • Quote (Economic Analyst, 11:15):
    “If this is going to continue through the appeals process, it's going to continue for months…Warsh is not going to be confirmed anytime soon.”

• Commentary on Administrative Planning:

  • Tim O’Brien contends the administration is navigating Fed succession with little strategy, and infighting is common.
  • Quote (Tim O’Brien, 12:06):
    “Of course, the orchestration of how you get a Fed nominee on track…matters. The fact that they're not suggests ... they actually don't have a blueprint for how to go about this.”

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“Is There a Strategy or Just Chaos?” (13:29–15:06)

• Chaos as Method?

  • Hosts and O’Brien debate whether the flood of conflicting messages reflects deliberate strategy or simply reflexive chaos.
  • Quote (Tim O’Brien, 14:00):
    “…this is an attempt to impose a rational structure on what's an inherently irrational process, which is that Trump is, is a chaotic force of nature.”

• On Trump’s Goals vs. Strategic Vision:

  • O’Brien argues Trump’s goals center on self-preservation and aggrandizement, not long-term strategy.
  • Quote (Tim O’Brien, 14:45):
    “Strategies require patience…that’s strategy. All the rest of it is throwing mud up against a wall to see what sticks.”

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Fed Independence and Market Impact (15:06–20:12)

• Jay Powell’s Likely Demeanor:

  • Powell expected to stick to neutral legal statements and focus on the Fed’s job at the upcoming meeting, regardless of political tumult.
  • Speculation about policy moves—analysts agree that even Warsh wouldn’t cut rates amid current economic uncertainty.

• Administration Advisory Vacuum:

  • O’Brien underscores lack of independent advice in the Trump White House, with surrounding figures now enablers, not checks.

• Press Conference Takeaways:

  • Pirro’s press conference described as combative and performative, more for the White House audience than the public.
  • Administration press events compared to “audience of one” performances for Trump.
  • Quote (Political Commentator, 17:59):
    “I'm here because Donald Trump is the best president in the history of the world. And our goal is to achieve acts, and therefore we will do it.”

• Fed Independence in the Markets:

  • Despite drama, markets still regard Fed independence as largely intact; credibility remains but is always vulnerable to political attack.
  • Quote (Economic Analyst, 19:30):
    “…the markets feel basically that Fed independence is strong. Now, one of the issues is how strong is their credibility because of … the big inflation scare ... But for right now, the markets believe in the Fed.”

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Energy Markets, Policy, and Economic Stakes (20:12–21:39)

• Trump’s Influence on Markets:
  • Discussion of President Trump’s interventions to “massage” energy trades; limits of what can be achieved through PR vs. underlying fundamentals.
  • Ongoing wars and energy volatility create major economic risks for the White House and Federal Reserve.
  • Quote (Political Commentator, 21:04):
    “Nobody does. But... the interesting thing here now...is the whole dance around was he going to impose tariffs or not? Played out over several months…He does not have the time in this situation to let this play out that long at all.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Legal Case:

  • “There's no evidence that Powell committed any crimes. They've presented no evidence. On the other side, there's a mountain of evidence that this is about retribution against Powell by Trump.” – June Grasso, 03:13

• On the Political Showmanship:

  • “I'm here because Donald Trump is the best president in the history of the world. And our goal is to achieve acts, and therefore we will do it.” – Political Commentator, 17:59

• On Strategy vs. Chaos:

  • “This is an attempt to impose a rational structure on what's an inherently irrational process…Trump is, is a chaotic force of nature.” – Tim O’Brien, 14:00
  • “Strategies require patience…That’s strategy. All the rest of it is throwing mud up against a wall to see what sticks.” – Tim O’Brien, 14:45

• On Market Stability:

  • “…the markets feel basically that Fed independence is strong. Now, one of the issues is how strong is their credibility because of what they, the problem they had with the big inflation scare…” – Economic Analyst, 19:30

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Key Timestamps

• 01:59: Breaking news on Judge’s rejection of subpoenas
• 03:05: Unconventional judicial opinion opening with Trump social posts
• 04:03: Judge Boasberg’s background and controversies
• 05:16: How “activist judge” label has lost meaning
• 06:47: Next legal steps, challenges for Pirro’s case
• 09:23: Implications for Powell’s tenure and Warsh’s stalled nomination
• 11:53: Analysis of Trump administration’s chaotic approach
• 14:00: Strategic vacuum vs. deliberate chaos
• 17:36: Reflections on Pirro press conference as theater
• 19:30: Fed independence and market perceptions
• 21:04: The limits of Trump’s influence on markets and global affairs

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Summary Takeaways

• Judge’s ruling is a strong defense of Fed independence and a critique of politically motivated prosecutions.
• The Trump administration’s efforts to replace Powell with Warsh are mired in legal and political gridlock, partly due to lack of unified strategy.
• The episode portrays Jay Powell as the stable nucleus of the Fed amid political chaos, and markets are still betting on Fed independence.
• Legal analysts believe Pirro’s legal prospects are dim and see the process as performative.
• The broader context is a White House and DOJ characterized by a “strategy of chaos” and an ongoing battle over control of critical economic institutions.

This summary captures the content-rich, analytical, and engaged discussion of a pivotal—and highly politicized—moment in U.S. financial and legal news.

Transcript

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[Legal Analyst]

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[Legal Analyst]

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[Legal Analyst]

Right.

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[Political Commentator]

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[Ben Walter]

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[Legal Analyst]

Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News

[Economic Analyst]

this

[Commercial Narrator]

is a breaking news update from Bloomberg. Instant reaction and analysis from our 3,000 journalists and analysts around the world.

[Host/Interviewer]

U.S. attorney for Washington, D.C. jeanine Pirro vowed to continue her investigation of Federal Reserve Chair Jay Powell after a judge earlier rejected subpoenas issued to the central bank threatening to delay the confirmation of Kevin Warsh as Powell's successor. She spoke from her office in D.C.

[Economic Analyst]

jerome Powell today is now bathed in

[Legal Analyst]

immunity, preventing my office from investigating the Federal Reserve. This is wrong and it is without legal authority.

[Co-Host/Interviewer]

That's U.S. attorney for Washington, D.C. jeanine Pirro. We're joined by June Grasso, Bloomberg legal analyst and host of Bloomberg law, weeknights at 6 and 10pm on Bloomberg Radio. Michael McKee is with us too. He's Bloomberg TV and Radio International economics and policy correspondent. June, you brought a printout. This is the full opinion. What have you found?

[Legal Analyst]

Let me first read you, if I may, the first few lines. Jerome Too late. Powell has done it again. It's too late. And actually, he's too angry, stupid, and too political to have the job of Fed Chair. He's costing our country trillions of dollars.

[Co-Host/Interviewer]

It sounds like a true social post.

[Legal Analyst]

So, wait, the judge started with a page and a half of social posts by President Trump.

[Host/Interviewer]

So all legal rulings are like that. Right.

[Legal Analyst]

These days, I've never seen one like this because usually they didn't even give a preface. He just went right into it. And, you know, the thing is that he said there's a. There's no evidence that Powell committed any crimes. They've presented no evidence. On the other side, there's a mountain of evidence that this is about retribution against Powell by Trump, and that's why Judge Boasberg put that out there. So political.

[Host/Interviewer]

Can we read retribution as political or no?

[Economic Analyst]

Yes.

[Legal Analyst]

Yes, I definitely think so. And you heard Jeanine Pirros talk about how there's no evidence and there's no. This is against the rules and all that stuff. Well, you know, I'll just read from Rule 3:17 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, which prohibits subpoenas that are unreasonable or oppressive. So the judge found that this was unreasonable and probably oppressive. So, you know, this is a judge that's well known. He's the chief judge of the D.C. circuit.

[Co-Host/Interviewer]

Judge Boseberg you're talking about.

[Legal Analyst]

He's very well respected. But you also might know he came into prominence because he's the judge who told the Trump administration to turn the planes around when they were flying Venezuelans to El Salvador.

[Co-Host/Interviewer]

Okay.

[Host/Interviewer]

Well, we heard from our Elliot Stein of Bloomberg Intelligence, Right. Who said that this is a judge who's been kind of a thorn in the side of the Trump administration.

[Legal Analyst]

They went after him for ethics violations and failed. So it was about a conference, a private statement that he made at a conference of judges, and they actually tried to pursue ethics complaint against him, and that was dismissed.

[Co-Host/Interviewer]

So he was. He was appointed in 2011 by President Obama, but earlier he was appointed to the Superior Court of D.C. by President George W. Bush. So he's had support from. And you know, we're talking about this because these days we. There's a lot of. He was called an activist judge by

[Legal Analyst]

Jeanine Pirro, not only that, by Pam Bondi months and months ago. I have. I can, you know, find the quotes of her calling him and actually calling out Judge Boasberg and a few other judges as activist judges. So, I mean, that's a term that is used a lot by people in this administration. And, you know, you really can't put any credit on that because they call dyed in the wool Republican judges appointed by Ronald Reagan activists.

[Host/Interviewer]

Micah, why don't you come in? You're going to stick around a little bit later and also talk with our Tim o' Brien about all of this. But, I mean, is Jay Powell sitting there being like yahoo or it's not over yet. So he's, you know, because remember, he made that video after these subpoenas and was was unheard of to see a Fed chair come out and do something like that.

[Economic Analyst]

Well, he's not rejoicing. I'm sure he's happy with the ruling. And the Fed had always taken the position there was no crime here. And they point to the senators who all said there was no crime here, which Judge Boasberg notes in his decision. And the administration has just continued to pursue this. So the Fed has had to sit back. This was sort of the Fed's longer shot strategy, trying to get the subpoenas quashed. It's sort of the first line of defense. And they won on that. So now they don't even have to go farther unless she wins her appeal. But Powell is going to have to wait and see what happens with the appeal. And if then she finds some other way to try to indict him for something because they're trying to get him. It's very interesting in Judge Boasberg's opinion, he paraphrases a man for all seasons when he compares. He lays out all these tweets that the president put out. And he said this basically comes down to, will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest? And Jeanine Pirro is the person who's trying to do that.

[Host/Interviewer]

So go back June, then to the legal case. What's next? What does she have to do to get these appeals?

[Legal Analyst]

First of all, she said that this gives him blanket immunity. That's not the case. First of all, she's going to appeal. And also they're asking for a reconsideration because she said the judge had some dates wrong. But does that matter legally? Well, it may not matter legally based on, you know, we have to look at what the context of it. Okay, but, you know, will he reconsider? Maybe he'll reconsider, but I doubt that he's going to come out with a different opinion. So that's next is the appeal. And she can also find, as Mike said, other information to move her case forward. And the other thing is she, and particularly the D.C. attorney's office has had a lot of trouble getting grand juries to indict people in cases and having grand juries reject cases that are, you know, overcharged. This case, I have to say, getting some, a criminal case based on mistaken, based on statements that are mistaken, that is a very tough case to make. I mean, perjury cases are just really cost overruns.

[Host/Interviewer]

This is something the president kind of.

[Legal Analyst]

I mean, it's what isn't he.

[Economic Analyst]

This was not about cost overruns.

[Host/Interviewer]

Oh, okay.

[Economic Analyst]

So what was about his testimony to the Senate Banking Committee. Okay. When he was asked about the cost overruns and what he said was sort of evasive because he apparently he didn't have all the information right in front of him. But there was no lie in it. And Tim Scott, the chairman of the Banking Committee said there was. He didn't lie to us. The rest of the bank committee said he didn't lie to us. But that's what Pirro is trying to build a case on, which is what

[Host/Interviewer]

she highlighted also in the press conference today. Right. In terms of the cost.

[Economic Analyst]

Well, yeah, it all revolves around the cost.

[Host/Interviewer]

Okay.

[Economic Analyst]

But he didn't. She hasn't tried to charge him with anything in relation to the cost. It's a fishing expedition. If they got some paperwork from the Fed, if the subpoenas had gone forward that showed he did something wrong. But that's fishing expeditions.

[Legal Analyst]

I was going to say that if you remember the Barry Bonds case years and years and years ago where they were trying to get baseball player. Yes. They were trying to get him perjury based on statements he made to a grand jury. And if you read it, he just went around and around. He didn't lie specifically. Seven years of pretrial and things like that. He finally got convicted and then it was, it was overturned on appeal. I mean, these are not easy cases to make. And by the time it goes through, Jeanine Pirro will probably be out of the D.C. office.

[Economic Analyst]

Kevin Warsh has to wait seven years.

[Political Commentator]

Well, that

[Co-Host/Interviewer]

we got. Our conversation is going to continue. You have work to do. We have to say goodbye to you. June Grasso, Bloomberg legal analyst. She's host of Bloomberg law weeknights at 6 and 10 on Bloomberg Radio. Mike McKee, you're not so lucky. You're sticking with us.

[Host/Interviewer]

And we're going to bring our Tim o' Brien into the studio as well and also talk with him about all of this. But Mike, one of the things. Yeah, can we go? Can we go?

[Legal Analyst]

We're going to go, Mike.

[Host/Interviewer]

One of the things I think about is what if there is kind of the back and forth still going and Kevin Warsh his nominee, his nomination isn't confirmed. What happens? Does Jay Powell stay in the job? Like, how does this.

[Economic Analyst]

Well, Powell can stay as a governor until January of 2028 because that's when his governor as a governance, he would not be chairman of the Board of governors anymore after May 15. But the open Market Committee that makes the interest rate decisions elects its own chair every year. This year, the Open Market Committee elected him to be chair for the entire year. The last time they elected somebody in this situation, they said until a successor is confirmed. So he could, they don't have to do anything. He just stays as chair until and unless he either resigns or Wash comes in and they decided to replace Powell.

[Co-Host/Interviewer]

This is something we're going to talk about with Tim o', Brien, too, in just a minute. But Mike, it seems like this could have been such an easy opportunity to fast track Kevin Warsh to becoming the next Fed Chair had Janine Pirro accepted the decision from this judge.

[Political Commentator]

Right.

[Co-Host/Interviewer]

And said, okay, he's the judge spoke, we're done. We're, we're, that's it. And we're not going to appeal this. But now Tom Tillis says as long as this process continues, he will not allow Kevin Warsh to move from committee to get confirmed.

[Economic Analyst]

Well, and if this is going to continue through the appeals process, it's going to continue for months because that's the way the legal system works. So Warsh is not going to be confirmed anytime soon. I suppose it makes Stephen Myron happy because he stays in the seat. But you have to, you have to shake your head. You have to wonder and say, what were they thinking? But we're always saying that these days.

[Legal Analyst]

Yeah.

[Co-Host/Interviewer]

Let's bring in Tim o'. Brien. He's Bloomberg Opinion senior executive editor. He's back here in our studio. Tim, we wanted you on because you have a column earlier that we spoke about about the president and plans and planning for this. And I think this is kind of a perfect opportunity to talk about what was the plan here?

[Host/Interviewer]

Is there a plan?

[Co-Host/Interviewer]

Is there a plan here? And I think if we know what

[Political Commentator]

my answer is going to be.

[Co-Host/Interviewer]

Yeah, I know what your answer is going to be. But this seems to be, like we were saying, not necessarily prudent to get the next Fed chair in position for President Trump.

[Political Commentator]

Yeah, again, you know, planning matters. It matters when you plan a party. It matters when you plan a home renovation. It matters when you plan how to run a business, and it certainly matters when you plan how to run the federal government in its myriad facets and all the important things it does. So, of course, the orchestration of how you get a Fed nominee on track, how you get a Fed nominee approved and how you then get them seated really matters. And a lot of this, the, you know, the thing that's going on with Lisa Cook, it is theatrics, the issue being looked into. Other members of the Trump administration have wrestled with this, including the Treasury Secretary, who wasn't singled out for an investigation. And it would be just wise for them to let go of it and smooth the waters and get warsh right in there, as Michael was saying. And the fact that they're not suggests a number of things, that they actually don't have a blueprint for how to go about this. They're not communicating well with each other. It's not clear to me how well the President's team communicated with Pirro before she got in front of a microphone to talk about this. How much of it's informed by peak rather than strategy, et cetera, et cetera. And that is a common feature of how the Trump administration rolls.

[Host/Interviewer]

I want to ask you, though, Tim, like, part of us sometimes wonders, is this chaotic approach and, you know, President Trump's ability or, you know, goal of putting so much out there to kind of confuse us is a plan and is a strategy, you know, that flood the zone kind of idea. How much of that do? Should we think that this is part of what he wants to do? I think, and we're not talking about

[Co-Host/Interviewer]

some, about oil prices or the Epstein

[Host/Interviewer]

files or Epstein files. Like we talk about this all the time. There are things we're not talking about as a result.

[Political Commentator]

Well, so I think that this is an attempt to impose a rational structure on what's an inherently irrational process, which is that Trump is, is a chaotic force of nature. This is who he's been forever. He hasn't really had to suffer the consequences of chaos in his own life or his own career. He's come very close a few times. He flirted with personal bankruptcy in the early 1990et. He's been through a number of marriages. He was in the White House, then out of the White House, now he's back in again. So, you know, this is present, but I think it's important to discern strategy from chaos and to discern strategy from goals. You know, I think Trump clearly has goals. It's usually self aggrandizement. Or self preservation. Almost everything that he aspires to is in one of those silos. But that's not having a strategy. Strategies require patience. You have to think long term. You have to build a team around you that can help you execute your vision. That's strategy. All the rest of it is throwing mud up against a wall to see what sticks.

[Host/Interviewer]

Who does have strategy is Jay Powell. And I keep thinking, Mike, about next week and the Fed meeting and we'll know where. I'm sure there will be posts on social media that we will get from, whether it's the White House or the administration or what have you. But I just think about where Jay Powell is going to be on Wednesday, no matter what is kind of swirling around him. And when it comes to this specifically, we know he'll be asked.

[Economic Analyst]

Yeah, the Fed has to make a decision. And Powell, I'm sure, when asked about it, will say something along the lines of, well, we agree with the court. And that's all I'm going to say because it's under appeal and I'm not going to talk about it anymore. And then we're going to ask him, are you going to stick around as governor when your term is?

[Co-Host/Interviewer]

And what will he say?

[Economic Analyst]

And he will say, I haven't thought about that. I'm not giving that any thought right now. I'm just focused on the job in front of me, which will, in a way get easier because of the President. Because the war has pushed up oil prices and is threatening the economy. The Fed is now going to be sitting back and doing nothing. Even if Kevin Warsh were confirmed immediately, he wouldn't be cutting rates under these circumstances, would Stephen?

[Legal Analyst]

Myron?

[Economic Analyst]

No, I don't think so.

[Host/Interviewer]

Okay.

[Economic Analyst]

I mean, we talked to Stephen the week that the war started and he said, I just don't know enough right now. So I'm still on my position, but if you thought that inflation was going to rise significantly, then cutting rates would not be the thing you'd want to do. Myron's argument would be, well, if the economy is going to slow, we're going to get higher unemployment, then that is something you might cut rates for. But for right now, we're not seeing that.

[Host/Interviewer]

Tim, where is the President's advisers? Like, I'm just thinking in a normal White House, they would be like midterms, affordability, like, you know, just as Mike,

[Political Commentator]

as Mike was talking, I was thinking stagflation. Stagflation? Yeah, we take all of the, you know, all the bells are chiming towards that. You know, I think in Trump's first White House, he had advisors around him who talked back, whether it was, you know, General Mattis on the one hand or Rex Tillerson on the other. And I don't think those sort of people exist in this administration because I think the lesson that the President took away from his first administration was people who give you independent advice get in your way and, and they contradict how you see the world. And he doesn't like either one of those things. So what you have now is essentially an apparatus around him that's enabling. But anyone who talks to people in the White House or reports on it describes it as essentially a tornado of, of different, different goals and poor communication.

[Co-Host/Interviewer]

What did you, Tim, were your takeaways of the press conference we saw with the US Attorney, Jeanine Pirro? It was, it was combative, it was energetic. She was, she, I think she was very. I'm just confused about, like, who, who that was for. And.

[Political Commentator]

Well, you know what?

[Co-Host/Interviewer]

It reminded me as an emissary of the President, it reminded me of the

[Political Commentator]

Attorney General's recent congressional testimony where it was similar. It was. I am not going to concede your point. I'm not really going to answer your question. I'm here because Donald Trump is the best president in the history of the world. And our goal is to achieve acts, and therefore we will do it. And I tend to think, I think today the War Secretary, Pete Hegseth, gave a press conference to debrief the American public on where we are. And it was very performative. And again, I think all of these people are cognizant of that when they're on tv, there's an audience of one in the Oval Office that they have to think about before everyone else.

[Economic Analyst]

There's something interesting about this too, because at the Defense Department, remember, they essentially forced all the regular mainstream press out. So people who are at Hegsen Lindell

[Co-Host/Interviewer]

TV asking a question earlier today, all

[Economic Analyst]

basically affiliated with right wing media outlets. But at the Justice Department today, there was a lot of antagonism that she was responding to. She got asked, how does this fit in with all of the other cases that you have failed to get grand juries to indict?

[Host/Interviewer]

Right.

[Economic Analyst]

And that made her very angry at the end.

[Host/Interviewer]

You know, one of the things I think about, too is just. And I just blanked, actually.

[Co-Host/Interviewer]

Well, I wanted, I wanted to ask about Fed independence. And I'm wondering if a decision like this from, from a judge makes you think, okay, the Fed, and maybe makes investors think Fed Independence is strong.

[Economic Analyst]

It's kind of a mixed picture. Yes, the, the markets feel basically that Fed independence is strong. Now, one of the issues is how strong is their credibility because of what they, the problem they had with the big inflation scare and things like that. And everybody doesn't know exactly how this plays out with the President and the Fed. But for right now, the markets believe in the Fed and I don't think it's going to take a lot to change that. And the more this goes on, the more the President turns other members of the Fed against him. And people stick up for the institution. And whether they love Jay Powell or hate Jay Powell, the Fed itself is more important.

[Host/Interviewer]

That's what I actually wanted to go to. So thank you for like triggering my brain, the synopsis. But I mean, I think about Tim too, that we talk about a Trump put right, that the President does watch the markets. And really this week I think we've seen things where he has come out to almost massage the energy trade. So should we assume whether it's the Fed, you know, nervousness in the markets that he will come back to that?

[Political Commentator]

Well, I think, you know, he can't just massage the energy trade forever. You know, oil, there is a point in overtime, prices have been on a yo yo and at some point, because of the nature of the industry, everything will shut down for a period of time and it'll take a while to revive it and there will be economic consequences for that. And I think he's hoping that within these little moments of breathing room, maybe the Iranians come to the table or something else. I don't know exactly what he's thinking,

[Host/Interviewer]

but, but nobody does.

[Ben Walter]

Ever.

[Political Commentator]

Nobody does. But the interesting thing here now if you compare it to like Liberation Day and tariffs, is the whole dance around was he going to impose tariffs or not? Played out over several months because he had the time to do that. He does not have the time in this situation to let this play out that long at all. And he is now dealing with fanatics in Iran who are going to dig in and wage a long war, it appears. And he can be fanatical himself. And if both sides on this end up just digging in, we're going to have a full blown energy crisis.

[Host/Interviewer]

Which is why we also have market watchers saying we've got to know kind of the duration, the impact. And that will determine so much going forward.

[Economic Analyst]

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