A (2:23)

Is it an issue for Ireland as a neutral country if that money would then be used to buy offensive weapons for Ukraine?

B (2:30)

Look, I mean we've given significant support in terms of defensive weapons and there's a wide range in that definition of defensive weapons as to what we can do. We've given huge support in terms of refugees from Ukraine as well. 2% of our population are Ukrainian refugees. So look, we'll examine any proposals. We are a neutral country in terms of we don't join military alliances, but we're absolutely not neutral when it comes to the right of Ukraine to defend itself from an illegal and full scale invasion by Russia.

A (2:59)

We've been reporting this morning on this new peace plan, a new 12 point plan we're told that European countries were working on with Ukraine as well. Is this something that Ireland has been involved in?

B (3:08)

Well, look, it's not something that I've been involved in personally, but I can tell you that the agenda for the leaders at the European Council meeting this week is very much along the lines of helping Ukraine to defend itself, helping Ukraine to build up its munitions and its defenses in the face of this full scale invasion. And also in terms of my own focus, progressing Ukraine's membership of the European Union and the accession process. So yesterday in Luxembourg, we as European ministers had a meeting with our Ukrainian counterpart, Taras Cassius, and that was designed and organized by Xavier Betel in Luxembourg, designed to, you know, continue the discussion on Ukraine's incredible effort to join the European Union. And again, that's the focus of the leaders as well. And it's certainly been a big focus of mine because I think that we, you know, for our own security, for Ukraine's European ambition, we have to progress this as efficiently and as quickly as possible. It's a merit based process, but believe you me, they are really working hard to ensure that they reach the thresholds required to join the European Union just.

A (4:08)

On some of the other big issues that we're expecting leaders to be talking about. One of them of course is trade. And we've seen an increased contacts between the EU and China over recent days over the issue of the restrictions that China has placed on exporting rare earth metals. Now Mara Sheftovitz, the U trade chief, says that he'll be talking to his Chinese counter counterparts in the coming days. More about this, where does Ireland stand on the idea of escalating measures against China in retaliation for those rare earth curbs?

B (4:37)

Well, first of all, China needs to urgently roll back these restrictions and you know, stick to the WTO rules. I mean, you know, I was at a meeting of the G20 trade ministers two weeks ago in South Africa where I was a guest this year. And everybody around that table was supportive of the wto. And I think that that's really, really important. And we all have different nuances, but fundamentally this is in breach. And I think Maris Sefkovic, I think I have to say he's one of the busiest commissioners I've ever seen in terms of his engagements right around the world on really important issues to European jobs, European manufacturing and European trade. And look, I think he's going to take a judgment. We will be supporting Commissioner Sepkovic in his work, we always do, because I think he's done such a good job and takes into account the member states and brings the member states along, I suppose as well. But we want to make sure that we have a level playing field around the world as well. I mean, China is one of the biggest trading countries in the world as well, in terms of its own exports. So it can't pick and choose.

A (5:36)

Competitiveness is of course, the key issue for this commission and it is one of the items on the agenda for the leaders meeting as well. In terms of how we see a simplification agenda being implemented across Europe, it's a common complaint from businesses around red tape, but the most concrete action that we've seen certainly in recent days has been to soften or push back the implementation of some key climate related laws. And thinking about the deforestation law being delayed by another six months, for example. Is that how we should be reading? What simplification looks like in this competitiveness agenda is essentially weakening some of the climate regulations that EU has put in place.

B (6:12)

No, that's not what ARDA wants to do. We want to make sure that we actually can meet our climate ambitions because we believe they're absolutely necessary in terms of basically saving the planet. But also it is worth recalling that the European Union, in terms of some of the laws which are very well meaning over the last number of years, has increased the administrative burden on companies. That's a fact. And the commission, supported by the member states, has decided to roll back on some of this because some of the form filling, etc. Is just too much. And it's been done in the name sometimes of climate targets, are in the name of whatever else it is. And that's wrong. Now, the difficulty is, of course, that we can only pass this simplification, these laws if the Member states and the Parliament agree. And I think it does need strong cooperation between the council and the parliament to get this through and to work with the parliament to listen to their concerns. This is a difficult challenge because some of these laws, quite frankly, have only been brought in in the last number of years, and we're asking some of the same people to roll back on them and kind of admit that maybe it wasn't going to work. So that's a difficult challenge. But I think we need to do it. We badly need to do it, because our jobs depend on us and we're coming under significant external pressure from our investors, from our companies, and particularly small and medium enterprises who are the lifeblood of our economies. So I think the worker simplification is very urgent. There are some rules, of course, in various sectors that will be postponed for a while, but we definitely don't believe that we should be compromising our climate ambitions.

A (7:35)

Okay, Thomas Byrne, Ireland's Europe minister, thank you very much for joining us.

C (7:38)

There are two kinds of people in the world, people who think about climate change and people who are doing something about it. On the Zero podcast, we talk to both kinds of people. People you've heard of, like Bill Gates.

B (7:49)

I'm looking at what the world has to do to get to zero, not using climate as a moral crusade.

C (7:56)

And the creative minds you haven't heard of yet. It is serious stuff, but never doom and gloom. I am Akshat Ratty. Listen to Zero every Thursday from Bloomberg podcasts on Apple, Spotify or anywhere else you get your podcasts.