Interviewer/Moderator (2:45)

Is the browser the gateway to all of this or is it not because we're using apps like Claude or ChatGPT?

Laura Chambers (2:55)

What we're finding is that the folks that created those apps are feeling that the interface is a little clunky right now, that you might be in a browser and then you have to go to another tab and back and forth a little bit. And so I think that there will be a role to play for apps. But what we're certainly seeing from OpenAI and others is that they're really interested in getting into the browser space. But I think the browser's changing. The browser has traditionally been a container. You have a URL and a search bar, your of some tabs, and the browser renders content on the web for you. The shift that we're expecting to see is that the browser will become more of an agent to actually do work on your behalf in that browser interface. But with that shift becomes a big shift in power of data as well. The AIs now have more information about your credentials, where you're spending your time, where you're spending your money. And we know that people are worried about that. 60% of people in the US are really worried about privacy with AI, and the other 40% probably should be as well. And so I think to be successful in this space, people are going to have to go back to those values that Mozilla and Firefox are really built on, which is around privacy and choice and control over your experience and your data.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (4:05)

Do you feel like it's difficult to compete against the behemoths that are out there?

Laura Chambers (4:12)

It's always challenging to be a smaller company. The big tech companies consolidate a lot of power. They lock you in, they have vertical integration. But it's something that is incredibly important to do. The Internet, if left to its own devices, would always trend to being closed, to being expensive, and to just have a few players. And that's why it's important to have open source solutions. It's important for alternatives for Firefox like Firefox to be there. You know, we have our own browser engine called Gecko. There are only three browser engines left, Microsoft and Opera. Everyone else moved over to Chromium. It's expensive to run a browser engine. I know why they did it. But we think it's incredibly important to invest in options like that because very quickly otherwise you end up in a very sort of monopolistic world, which is bad for the health of the Internet and it's bad for the users of the Internet.

Interviewer/Moderator (5:05)

So is, are you creating a web browser? Are you changing Firefox in order to be an AI first browser so it can compete with whatever browser OpenAI ultimately has, whatever browser Perplexity ultimately offers in the way Chrome changes from Alphabet's Google.

Laura Chambers (5:22)

Yeah, Firefox, we always adapt to where users are going and what they need. And not all of our users want AI. About 12% of users in the US actually don't want AI AI. So there'll always be an experience for them. But we are actually, we just launched Smart Windows. We have signups for those available right now, which will be our version of AI. But it's going to be centered on privacy, on trust and on transparency. So it will be, you'll be able to have a great eye experience in the Firefox browser, but it's going to be one that is really oriented around what users really need and how it can do a great job of protecting the data.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (5:57)

Yeah, I am curious too about, you know, you're thinking about who actually owns the data. We know the data is what's going to make AI and LLMs really powerful. So I'm just thinking about, you know, is some of your concerns too about certain companies again, going back to the big guys, the big players that they will have the access to most data out there as more and more folks use their search within their, their AI chat engines, if you will.

Laura Chambers (6:26)

Yeah, I think that users should be really thoughtful about their data. Now the good news about data is it can create great experiences, right? You can have seamless, faster experiences. There's a lot of good things that data can, can do. But as you give away more and more data, you're actually giving away control. And so the big tech companies control what you see, you know, where you spend your time, how you spend your money, by sort of the algorithms of what they decide to show you. And so even though on the Internet it feels like you have a lot of, actually that choice has already been pre narrowed and it's pre narrowed by the data that's been collected for you. So I think it's incredibly important for users to think about who's got my data, how is it shaping what I'm seeing, what I'm buying, how I'm spending my time, how I'M spending my money and to not sort of give that data away without really thinking it through and to make choices that help to preserve privacy.

Podcast Host/Interviewer (7:16)

Yeah, certainly lots of issues. We're kind of finding our way through all of this. Really good to get your perspective. Laura Chambers, she's chief executive officer of Mozilla, joining us from San Francisco.

Barry Ritholtz (7:25)

I'm Barry Ritholtz, inviting you to join me for the Masters in Business podcast. Every week we bring you fascinating conversations with the people who shape markets, investing and business. CEOs, fund managers, billionaires, Nobel laureates, traders, analysts, economists, everybody that affects what's going on in the market. Whether you own stocks, bonds, real estate, commodities, crypto. You really need to hear these conversations. Sometimes it's behaviorists like Dick Thaler or Bob Shiller. Sometimes it's fund managers like Peter Lynch, Bill Miller, Ray Dalio. Sometimes it's authors. Michael Lewis, author of the Big Short and Moneyball. Regardless of the conversation, these are the folks that move markets each week. That's the Masters in Business podcast with me. Barry Ritholtz. Listen on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.