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- [00:00]
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- [00:40]
Bloomberg Radio Announcer
Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News One.
- [00:46]
Joe (Bloomberg Host)
Of the biggest stories that we have been following in the last 24 hours though, of course has been the important keynote address from Jensen Huang at the Consumer Electronics Show. It has been feeding a number of storylines and moving the stock ever since that took place in Las Vegas yesterday. And joining us right now for a very special conversation conversation, we've got good news for you as Bloomberg's Ed Ludlow with the CEO of In Video, Jensen Huang, as well as the President CEO of Siemens, Roland Bush. They're at the CBS right now and we want to hand things out to Las Vegas. Ed Ludlow, you have the con.
- [01:21]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
Thank you, Joe. Over 175 years, Siemens has been at the forefront of, I'd say several industrial revolutions in video, is at the forefront of the latest AI Industrial revolution. And it's a pleasure to have you both here with us. Gentlemen. Roland, I want to try and understand how real this is. You call it an industrial AI operating system. We're going to talk about how you're joining forces on the software side and the hardware side, but I think the most useful place to start would be could you outline a timeline for when Siemens goes beyond its own footprint around the world using this operating system to customers actually doing things at scale? Because I think when you're on stage, that's the kind of sense I was getting. You want to accelerate to scale?
- [02:03]
Roland Busch (Siemens CEO)
Well, I mean this technology is already in place and it's working. I mean we see there are many examples and I brought some on stage today where you have customers starting with a digital twin of a product they want to manufacture a digital twin of the manufacturing side and bring that all together and not before that. You have it optimized, then build it in the real world. And AI is already working on the shop floor. They call it machine learning. But the point is with the new models you can bring that to the next level. That means you go away from giving an advice to somebody with technology, but really act on your behalf. This is when things go more autonomous or adaptive and you see that already starting. The big thing is how can we scale it? Because it requires a lot of skills from our customers, a lot of technology, and it's still not that easy. Easy to implement. We are working on it to make it easy to deploy and easy to use. But you see picking up momentum in this each stack we do, and we saw some great examples. Is it shipbuilding? Is it? Sure. But even startups using our technology like Commonwealth Fusion Systems.
- [03:09]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
Jensen, we've discussed the five layer cake often. You know, with Nvidia, it started with the GPUs, but it's now software. The element of simulation on stage, you talked about integrating the software side in particular into eda. Again, it's similar question for you, more of a timeline. What is it that you think you'll do first in how you guys work closer together?
- [03:30]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
First thing, let me just say very quickly, we're announcing a big partnership between us. We've known each other for a long time, but this partnership we're announcing is really a big deal. One, we're accelerating their EDA software, we're accelerating their simulation software. We're integrating AI technology, physical AI and agentic AI into their team center and their factory automation operating system. And so we're working together across this entire spectrum. When we accelerate the software, then we'll get to use it to design our chips and systems. When we accelerate their simulation software, we'll use it in our AI factories to simulate the thermal properties of our factories. When we integrate our automation and agentic systems into their industrial operating system, we can then use it in our factory floors with our partners, for example, Foxconn. And so we're working across this entire spectrum together and we're going to put the technology to use basically as soon as we can.
- [04:34]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
What's the net effect for you, Jensen? Is it improves margins, efficient capital allocation. I know that might sound a bit dry, but actually right now that's the answer everyone's searching for. How is this investment in AI and use of the technology actually changed things in the real world for me?
- [04:50]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
Well, we announced yesterday Vera Rubin. It takes six different chips to integrate into this incredible system called Vera Rubin. And when you're done, each one of These Vera Rubin GPUs is 240,000 watts and it is 10 times more energy efficient than the last generation it is 10 times more cost efficient than the last generation. But still the technology is insanely complicated. 15,000 engineering years came together to build this system. And so when we accelerate EDA tools, when we accelerate simulation tools, and when we can eventually, and I'm hoping very soon, design entire Vera Rubin systems inside a Siemens digital twin, the chance, the ability for us to create much, much more complex systems will scale, will do it much more efficiently. And so this is really about being able to do the impossible and being able to do it impossible. The impossible right the first time.
- [05:51]
Roland Busch (Siemens CEO)
And let me add, and once we then realize that AI creates real world impact, this is where it really deploys the full power and also the economic power. It's not only in the data centers or in AI factories, which we see, but also on the edge. Because once you start inferencing with low latency, you bring this technology to the edge. There's a huge potential for our customers to, to deploy this technology. And this includes, of course, it's hardware where we come from, from the jibs, it goes into the controllers. Some of our controllers run on GPUs.
- [06:26]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
Yes.
- [06:26]
Roland Busch (Siemens CEO)
And then it goes all the way.
- [06:27]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
To the industrial PC.
- [06:29]
Roland Busch (Siemens CEO)
Exactly, yeah.
- [06:30]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
And we envy now these industrial PCs are AI industrial.
- [06:34]
Roland Busch (Siemens CEO)
We supercharge it and they can now run algorithms trained in the cloud. They can run it on the shop floor and do all that trick, what we talked about it in real time optimization and running in a plant. And that makes a huge difference, drives economic growth.
- [06:49]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
The question that's being searched for is how is this going to manifest in the real world? You know, the emphasis this year cs, I think is physical AI is not the manifestation of the final stage of physical AI. Just one giant robot that you guys call a factory in the manufacturing context. Is that where you're seeing demand from actual customers? You know, they need a factory that is automated 100% and genuinely autonomous in some degree.
- [07:13]
Roland Busch (Siemens CEO)
So number one is if you want to build a factory, and very often you're missing out on labor and we talk about skilled labor, it's hard to find number one. Number two is once you build it autonomous and automated, then you have a much, much higher yields what you can generate. You use less energy by the way, at the same time before you optimize it in a way. So therefore there's a lot of benefits. And if you want to talk about the United States, ramp up manufacturing United States, you need to go as digital and as automated and supercharged as possible.
- [07:48]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
A factory is robotic and it is orchestrating Robots that are building systems that are also robotic, like for example, self driving cars, a robotic system. And the reason why it's so hard to deploy robots today is because it's hard to program these robotic systems. The software expertise necessary, the customization necessary is really intense. It's just too much. And so the fact that we could now apply artificial intelligence physical AI technology to these robotic systems, make them easier to teach, show that few demonstrations and the I learned it by itself.
- [08:29]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
Would you go as far as say Jensen, that you've solved for that, that software limitation.
- [08:33]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
That software limitation is, is the chat GPT moment of it is now here. I think over the course of the next couple to three years we're going to make some really big breakthroughs.
- [08:43]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
Let's please talk about energy, electricity, power supply, call it what you will in turn for each of you. How worried are you about it as a bottleneck and what is your experience day to day in running both companies in that respect?
- [08:56]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
Energy should always be a bottleneck for any industry. And this is a new industry that's growing incredibly fast. As you know, AI is both a technology that's going to revolutionize many applications and we're talking about some of them here. But the AI industry itself, the manufacturing of the artificial intelligence takes energy. It takes energy, it takes AI factories. It's exactly the reason why from Hopper to Blackwell we increased energy efficiency by 10x. From Blackwell to Rubin we increased energy efficiency again by 10x. And that translates directly to our customers revenues because in the case of an AI factory, whatever factory size you have, you're limited by the power and that power will within that power constraint you want to have the most tokens or most AI per watt that you can possibly generate. And so every time we improve energy efficiency, we're effectively improving both the AI capabilities for our customers and their revenues because they're always constrained by power.
- [10:02]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
The response to your keynote and forgive me one minute was you know, Vera Rubin 10x throughput really important tokens generated at 1 10th. But they'll still say hey Jensen, what if the electricity is just not there? It's not available?
- [10:16]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
Well, there's electricity there, never enough electricity.
- [10:19]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
That's actually what is the anxiety level for you both about that issue?
- [10:23]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
There's always energy there, never enough energy. And this is every and every industrial revolution will be energy constrained. And this industrial revolution is also energy constrained. With now one of the most important things to so here speaking about the United States, if not for President Trump's pro energy growth agenda, we would have a very hard time growing at all. In order for a new industry to emerge, you need energy. And so I think it's safe to say that we wish we had more energy. United States, Europe, we should have more energy. I think the world all wish we had more energy. And so we have to invest in all sorts of different forms of energy. But whatever energy you have, you have to make it as energy efficient as possible. And that's one of the reasons why both of us drive our technology roadmap so hard, because every single new generation of technology is more energy efficient than the last. That's kind of the nature of it.
- [11:17]
Tom Keene (Bloomberg Host)
This is Tom Keene inviting you to join me for the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. It's about making you smarter. Each and every business day, we bring you a recap of what happened overnight in Europe and Asia. The day's economic data and complete coverage of the US Market open. We cover stocks, bonds, commodities, currencies, even crypto, all the information you need to excel. Bloomberg Surveillance also brings you the analysis behind the headlines. We do that with lengthy conversations with our expert guests, the smartest names in economics, finance, investment and international relations. We do all this live each and every weekday, then bring you the best analysis in our daily podcast search for Bloomberg surveillance on YouTube, Apple, Spotify or anywhere else you listen on the east coast, listen at lunch and on the west coast when you wake up. That's the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast with me, Tom Keene, along with Paul Sweeney and Lisa Mateo. Subscribe today wherever you get your podcasts.
- [12:23]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
You are in the air factory. I won't say data center, because data center is where you store data, but you are in the AI factory supply chain. You must see it.
- [12:30]
Roland Busch (Siemens CEO)
So what we see is, number one is you see that the energy demand is roughly scaling with the GDP growth. It's decoupling because exactly of this effect that we are providing more and more efficient technology. So that means you are decoupling, but still it grows along with economic growth. And then on top comes a demand for data centers. They demand high quality of energy at the same time, which in some cases creates bottlenecks. Is it now from power generation and to talk, is it either renewables or gas turbines? There's a huge bottleneck for gas turbines as we speak. It goes all the way to high voltage transformers, to medium voltage, and to switch technologies. So therefore you see along the whole supply chain, obviously there's a huge demand we are serving that There's a reason why this business of ours is growing extremely fast. We can keep up with the demand of our customers. But in some cases you might end up in bottlenecks. If you keep on going as fast as possible, it's a regional dependence. In some cases where you have good programs, good policies, you see that it's catching up along with the demand and others you might end up in a gap. But you see as the demand is higher than supply, supply chain and we are ramping up and the case for.
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Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
Invested, which is invested ultimately the condition we want. Yeah, we want a condition where the demand is very strong because there's great demand for new technology.
- [13:52]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
Specific to you Jensen, how severe is the memory bottleneck right now?
- [13:57]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
Well, the memory bottleneck is severe but we're fortunate to have worked with all, you know, first of all, Nvidia is the only company that works with all three of the HBM suppliers and all three of them are major customers and major suppliers of us. And, and so, so we have, we have the good fortune of working with them for a very long period of time and we've got things all planned out. It's going to be okay.
- [14:20]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
You've been asked a lot about China in the last 24 hours. I'm going to ask you a slightly different question. What is the attitude of the Chinese government in allowing H200 to go into the country? I understand the position on licenses, the administration here in the United States. Position, position. But what does China's government say to you about how they want to approach it?
- [14:39]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
I haven't spoken directly to them but, but ultimately the way they'll communicate through us to us will be through the companies. If the companies are allowed to buy Nvidia products in China then there'll be strong demand and we're seeing strong demand. And so I think indirectly they've communicated with their companies.
- [15:00]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
I've learned a lot about Siemens is work in software. And I've always thought the word Siemens to be synonymous with, with industrial manufacturing, physical things. It's the same lesson we've been through recently with Nvidia trying to understand actually the software competencies. Is that an area where we might see you be active in M and A? Think about what you else you might need that you might not get from the Jensen and Nvidia partnership.
- [15:27]
Roland Busch (Siemens CEO)
So you might, because we will, we will increase our software competence, our software portfolio. Actually it's a little bit short of 30 billion which Siemens invested in M and A to build our software competence. Which brings us to the point that.
- [15:41]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
Well, what's missing today?
- [15:42]
Roland Busch (Siemens CEO)
Exactly. Today we can build the most comprehensive physics based digital Twin of whatever you want to build. Still there are pieces in operational software software which runs plans where you can look into that I gives new spaces. Obviously we invested in Dot Matics it's life science so it's about molecules. We can imagine doing more there also in simulation but also building a data backbone for this life science industry. It's super relevant. We did it for other industries with Team Center. We repeat that now with Luma for life science which is again shortening cycle times and reducing costs for life science and drugs and medicines. So and I mean the beauty of it is that we live in both worlds. We have to domain how we know how to run things, how to operate, how to automate plans, buildings, grids, trains. And you have this software competence too. And that makes us brings us in a unique position then and then we need strong partners which are, which have complementary technology which is so amazing Think if that comes together. You see matching things happen when Nvidia.
- [16:48]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
Will have access to new technology on the infant side through Grok I'm going to do my classic Jensen, could you please clarify for me question which is is this an acquisition or is it a licensing deal spread over time? Because Jonathan and Sunny joined we hired.
- [17:04]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
400 or something like that a little bit less incredible engineers and we also licensed the their technology. They, they designed an architecture that's very, very different than than what we've done and it's focused on low latency token generation. Nvidia is incredibly good at inference and we're, we're great at training post training as well as the inference phase and test time scaling of of AI and so, so we've got that, that, that space covered. I'm excited about some of the work that we might be able to do together to invent a new segment that might be able to address future use cases. I haven't described it to people but, but the time will come.
- [17:48]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
So you know Jonathan is kind of behind the TPU and the LPU and you know before all of this happened There was Grok V2 and V3 and you know all of that and it's leading to me to ask what would that new platform formal segment B. What is, what is it that you're trying to build on with those?
- [18:07]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
I haven't told anybody yet.
- [18:08]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
I'm here gents.
- [18:09]
Joe (Bloomberg Host)
I know.
- [18:09]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
Tell me, you know I'm going to look in the camera and tell you that that come to a GTC conference in the future and I will tell you all the secrets.
- [18:18]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
I'm going to make a Hard pivot because I have to Data centers in space. I reported just before the holidays that the reason SpaceX wants to go public.
- [18:30]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
The first GPU in space.
- [18:31]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
Bear with me, bear with me. The reason that SpaceX wants to raise 30, $40 billion, whatever that is, needs to buy the GPUs. Have you discussed data centers in space with Elon and SpaceX, Jensen?
- [18:43]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
I can't discuss what I haven't told everybody I've discussed with anybody.
- [18:48]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
You think it's a viable technology platform?
- [18:51]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
Sure, sure. I mean there's lots of energy in space, right. And, and, and the cooling is, is abundant in space. And so the challenges of, of AI factories are, are different out in space.
- [19:07]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
There would be AI factories in space.
- [19:08]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
Yeah.
- [19:09]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
Forgive the ignorance almost, but are we literally talking about the same architecture for the GPU that goes into an AI factory still just being able to go into kind of a satellite form factor?
- [19:19]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
Yeah, sure. But the way that you would cool it and power it would be very different. And so the system design will be radically different. The chips will be the same.
- [19:28]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
You're pretty concerned with data centers or factories here on Earth to Siemens see the need for or viability of such a technology.
- [19:36]
Roland Busch (Siemens CEO)
I don't know whether we explored oil potentials on Earth yet, but there's one beauty in this idea. Think about any kind of manufacturing which will you want to bring to space. Everything what you produce, you want to bring down to Earth. It's hard if you do energy how to bring it down to Earth. It's hard if you produce any kind of hardware how to bring it down. But tokens intelligence, I mean you can transfer easily to Earth. So therefore if I would start doing produce something in space, I would start there.
- [20:07]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
We should talk about autonomous driving. Have you seen Elon Musk's response to, to your keynote yesterday? What do you say part one in, in short was? Well, we were already doing that smiley emoji on X the other part by.
- [20:23]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
The way, I would be surprised. First of all I think, I think the Tesla stack is the most advanced AV stack in the world. And, and I think the Tesla operations is the most advanced in the world world. And I, I'm, I'm fairly certain that, that they were already using end to end AI.
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Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
Yes.
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Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
And whether, whether they're, they're. I also did reasoning or not is somewhat secondary to, to that first part.
- [20:53]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
His point was that the first 99% is hard enough, but the long tail thereafter is important. You know, it's very difficult. The question I got from the Audience that was at your keynote was on a dollar per mile basis. What is the fundamental difference on your stack and your software approach to Tesla's vision based approach?
- [21:13]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
Ours is also vision based. You know, of course we have, we have, in addition to vision, we also have radar and lidar, but, but otherwise, otherwise the approach is rather similar, I think, I think Elon's approach is about as state of the art as anybody knows of autonomous driving robotics. And so it's, it's a, it's a stack that's hard to criticize. I wouldn't criticize it. I, I would just encourage them to continue to do what they're doing. They're doing a great job.
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Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
Fiscal AI for you is, and forgive my pronunciation, but Erlangen manufacturing site. When's that real? It's the same question.
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Roland Busch (Siemens CEO)
I mean, contrast, in contrast to the side you were talking about before, this one exists. I mean we are, we are ramping up, we are automating it as we speak, using technology. I showcase some of that and we are, we are really deploying step by step now on that very same side, this technology. We was talking about, the AI brain, the digital twin composer revolts in real time connectivity to what happens on the shop floor. So you can act and, and drive basically dynamically what's happening on the shop floor. So, and we will talk about more along 20.
- [22:26]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
Cool. They're used. Siemens is using video technology in the Siemens factory. Yes, Nvidia is using Siemens technology in our Foxconn Nvidia factory. And so, you know, it's a great partnership.
- [22:37]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
Jensen, you are one of the most important and biggest employers in Silicon Valley. I've been down to Santa Clara, see you. You are a leader of the technology industry. Right now the industry and those of us that live in California are reviewing the billionaires tax. The question that a lot of people submitted to me to ask you is how does that impact that talent pool and the industry and Silicon Valley? Is it something that's of concern to you or it is not?
- [23:04]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
You know, I got to tell you, I haven't thought about it even once. We work in Silicon Valley because, because that's where the talent pool is. And we have offices all over the world. Wherever there's talent, we have offices. We have office in Germany, we have office in, you know, all over the world. And so we chose to live in Silicon Valley and whatever taxes I guess they would like to apply, so be it. I'm perfect, perfectly fine with it. It didn't never cross my mind once.
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Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
I appreciate the answer. And again, you know, it's right now in the technology industry. It's what people are reflecting on. We've had really not this person, not this person.
- [23:49]
Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO)
This person is trying to build the future of AI.
- [23:52]
Ed Ludlow (Bloomberg Journalist)
And that's what the conversation was about today. Roland Bush, Siemens CEO Jensen Huang, Nvidia.
- [23:57]
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