Bloomberg Talks Podcast Summary

Episode: Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro Talks Trump Makes It Harder to Produce Energy
Date: September 22, 2025
Host: Joe Matthew (Bloomberg)
Guest: Governor Josh Shapiro (Pennsylvania)
Interviewer: Tyler Kendall (Bloomberg)
Theme: Challenges and Opportunities in U.S. Energy Policy—Focus on Pennsylvania’s Power, PJM Reforms, Big Tech Demand, and Federal Policy Impact

Episode Overview

In this episode, Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro discusses the urgent need for reform of the PJM Interconnection power grid, the impact of big tech and data center energy demand, and how recent federal policies—especially under President Trump—are complicating efforts to expand energy production and attract top tech talent. The conversation links issues of consumer cost, innovation, job creation, state autonomy, and federal influence in the evolving U.S. energy landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. PJM Interconnection and the Need for Reform

• The PJM Interconnection is the U.S.’s largest power grid operator, serving 13 states and 67 million customers.
• Shapiro criticizes PJM’s opaque processes ("black box") and slow pace, stating it directly leads to higher energy costs for consumers and hampers swift energy generation.

Notable Quotes:

• “PJM has kind of been a black box for too many years... they are raising costs at really an alarming rate.”
  (D, 01:35)

2. State Autonomy—Will Pennsylvania Leave PJM?

• Shapiro threatens that Pennsylvania, as the nation’s second-largest energy producer, is willing to leave PJM if real reforms aren’t enacted to give states greater say and reduce consumer costs.
• The governor references a successful lawsuit where Pennsylvania blocked PJM from raising rates nearly $20 billion for consumers.

Notable Quotes:

• "If PJM is not willing to... really reform itself, then I'm willing to go my own way and Pennsylvania can stand alone in this effort."
  (D, 02:56)
• "I've already sued PJM... We won that suit, and we were able to save consumers nearly $20 billion in added costs."
  (D, 04:09)

3. Big Tech, Data Centers, and Energy Demand

• Pennsylvania has secured a $20 billion Amazon investment for new data centers, driving huge additional electricity needs.
• Shapiro asserts Pennsylvania can both keep residential costs down and meet business demand—if PJM allows for faster progress.
• He highlights projects transforming old coal plants to natural gas, emphasizing innovation and environmental improvement.

Notable Quotes:

• "We can walk and chew gum here in our commonwealth... Economic development in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is directly, directly tied to energy generation, which is also directly tied to keeping consumer costs down. We need to do all of it. We need to do it quickly."
  (D, 05:08–06:36)

4. How Big Tech Pays and Partners

• Shapiro insists tech companies must either invest in new energy sources or pay fully for the energy consumed: "Making sure that they invest in creating new energy or paying for the energy they use on the grid."
  (D, 06:48)

5. Federal Policies & President Trump's Impact

• Trump’s latest moves (blocking approval of new solar/wind projects, cutting clean energy tax credits, and raising H1B visa fees) are making it much more difficult for states like Pennsylvania.
• Shapiro says these federal-level actions threaten to cost tens of thousands of local jobs, stifle economic opportunity, and limit the state’s ability to attract top tech talent and innovation.
• He criticizes the administration's "all but fossil" approach and immigration policies for isolating America and driving up costs.

Notable Quotes:

• "The President's actions are making it harder for us here in Pennsylvania... the president is putting 26,000 Pennsylvania jobs, mostly union trade jobs, at risk of being lost when these projects shut down."
  (D, 07:26)
• "I think the President's immigration policies are making it harder for us to compete... what the President's doing is harming America, isolating America and making it harder for workers here in Pennsylvania, from our farmlands to our universities."
  (D, 08:54–09:37)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On State Preparedness:
  "Pennsylvania can stand alone in this effort. We can produce enough energy for us, and we can produce enough energy at a far quicker rate than PJM is able to right now." — Gov. Shapiro (02:58)
• On Federal Obstruction:
  "I don't know why [the President] is taking these steps that are making it harder for us in Pennsylvania. I'm a governor that wants to unleash our full potential... I think the president's policies are misguided." (07:55)
• On Workforce & Immigration:
  "When we can't attract great talent to be able to produce our food or to be able to produce the next major invention... that makes us less competitive as a nation." (08:57)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Discussion Begins, PJM Reform Overview: 01:23–02:27
• Will Pennsylvania Leave PJM?: 02:28–03:57
• Amazon Investment & Data Center Energy Demand: 04:42–06:38
• Big Tech Paying for Energy, Policy Mechanics: 06:38–07:04
• Trump’s Policies on Renewables & Jobs Impact: 07:04–08:23
• On Immigration Policy & Tech Workforce: 08:23–09:40

Tone & Language

Governor Shapiro’s tone is direct, urgent, and pragmatic, positioning himself as a business-friendly, innovation-driven leader but firmly critical of federal obstruction that, in his view, hinders economic and technological progress.

Summary in Short

This episode presents Governor Josh Shapiro’s forceful argument for urgently modernizing energy policy, both in Pennsylvania and the broader U.S.—with a focus on empowering states, reforming legacy power grid structures, harnessing tech sector growth, and pushing back against recent federal moves that he believes are costing jobs, raising prices, and undermining America’s competitive edge.