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Bloomberg Talks
Warner Bros Motion Picture Group Co-CEOs Pamela Abdy & Michael De Luca at Bloomberg Screentime
00:25:02
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- [00:00]
A
Indiana University is shaping the future of healthcare. Advancing discoveries that become treatments for Alzheimer's, obesity, cancer and rare diseases. And training the providers trusted to deliver them from the lab to the clinic. IU powers medical breakthroughs and the talent behind them. See how IU solves what's next IU Edu Impact Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News well, let's get to the main stage here at Bloomberg Screen Time.
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B
Go into a conversation with Pamela Abdy and Michael DeLuca. They're the co chair and CEOs of.
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A
Warner Brothers Motion Pictures Group.
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B
I want to start on the state of the movie business because you were two of the biggest cinephiles in the world, I'd say. And I was listening to an appearance you guys made on the Smartless podcast earlier this year and you were talking about how there are not enough movies being made and you're sort of. I was struck because you guys run a movie studio that would seem to be within your power to decide how many movies you make. So why don't you and your peers make more movies?
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A
Well, we have made more movies. So you know, one of the first things we were tasked to do when we got to the studio was increase the output. And I think we increased it from I think when we got there it was four to six movies. And we're up to 12 this year, heading towards 18, hopefully. So we're doing our part, I feel like. And, and one of the most amazing things, the reason we're so optimistic about our business is Warner Brothers achieved 4 billion in worldwide gross this year, the first time since 2019. So at least in terms of our studio, we're already at pre pandemic levels. But I think the most significant metric is we did it on nine less movies than 2019. We did it on 11 movies and they had 20 shots at it. Which I think shows that there's a robust theatrical audience just waiting for more movies to get made. They always talk about box office is down anywhere from 25 to 30%, but there's also 25% less movies in the marketplace. So that's why we always feel like it's a glass half full situation and if there were more movies, you'd see that box office climb.
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B
Well, one of the reasons that I assume that the number of movies is down is how expensive it has become to make them. So as someone who's not part of the sausage making process, why does it feel like every major studio Release now costs $200 million?
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C
I don't think every weapons did not.
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B
But can we agree that the cost of making movies has gone up a lot?
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C
Sure, we can. Absolute. I think the way we look at it is a diverse slate, right? And we look at different metrics and different size movies, and it's really about balancing the slate. So there's no one size fits all approach to budgeting a film. You have to meet with the filmmaker. You have to look at what the story is, who the audience is, what genre it is. We share it with our teams around the world, and we all come up with the right size budget for that film. And it really leads with being based on the vision of the filmmaker.
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B
Right. Okay. That does make me want to. I wasn't going to get here yet, but I want to zoom ahead to the movie you just released. One battle after another. Paul Thomas Anderson movie, great movie. Everyone thinks it's, if not the front runner for Best Picture, one of them. You gave $135 million budget to a director who'd never had a movie gross $100 million. Can you walk me through how that worked in the formula you were just.
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A
Talking about not confirming that that's the budget number, however, to point taken that it's certainly Paul's most expensive movie. And I think when we all read it, and as Pam said, in our organization, we are really big on sharing the script with our teams, both international, domestic. Everybody who's got a stake in that movie's success gets to weigh in. And we arrive as many studios, as all the studios do, with a model that basically informs the. The green light process. So we read this two and a half years ago as a. As a satirical action comedy with Leo. And, you know, because it read like the masterpiece it is, we leaned in like, if we set up the kind of, you know, rigorous analysis that enables us to trigger a green light. But if it's a. If it's a, you know, a bold, provocative swing, we're just. Our DNA is to lean in and give it a shot. So Leo's comps kind of gave it the credibility to say, well, we can aim for the high case, but really what carried the day was just. It read like the movie it is. It just read like a masterpiece. And one of the overriding operating principles at the studio is to continue that legacy of Warner's, whether it was Stanley Kubrick or Clint Eastwood or Ben Affleck. But get into these situations with the best filmmakers of the day and try to bring people, try to bring audiences who are starved for originality, you know, new masterpieces, new modern masterpieces. And that's what we feel like Paul's given us.
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B
So we're going to set aside the masterpiece part of the conversation for a second. Do you think that the movie will be a commercial success?
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A
I do. I'm a believer it's a marathon with this movie, not a sprint. I think it's gonna leg out to a number that we'll be happy with, but it's hard. We can't divorce. I'd be lying if I said we're divorcing it from the pride we have in it, and you know it. And also with Weapons and Sinners. What those three movies say about the chances for original films to get made from the best directors working today? It's where Warner Brothers wants to be.
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C
And it goes into our overall strategy. You know, when we met with David three years ago, we sat down and we said very clearly, let's bring the best storytellers to Warner Brothers. And that's what we've done. And we've tried to do a mix of IP movies, genre films. It's really about the balance of the whole slate. And, you know, David, us, he's been so supportive in that. And I feel like this year our slate really, you know, shows what our mission is.
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B
Would you say that David has always been supportive?
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C
Yes. From day one.
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B
Then. Okay, we have to address the fact that earlier this year he was out there meeting with people. He was not being very subtle about potentially looking for replacements for you.
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C
Listen, we can't address the speculation and rumors and all that stuff. All I can say is, David, Mike and I had the privilege of seeing all these movies early. We knew what we had with the filmmakers and with these stories, and we just couldn't wait for audiences to see them. So David was completely supportive of every film and of Mike and I and the choices we made.
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B
Well, you got re upped yesterday. So clearly when you go on a tear, whatever your boss may or may not be thinking for just the strategy.
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A
Well, it got announced yesterday, but as you can imagine, yes, it had been done before.
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B
The hot streak for the year, I feel like, started with Minecraft. Is that fair to say? Yes. For a long time, movies based on video games, TV shows based on video games didn't work. And that's totally flipped in the last couple years. We just had David talking about Call of Duty. What do you think? Has there been some change in culture as to why these movies are now working, or is it.
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A
I think it all goes back to talent. We don't. I think it's dangerous to traffic in blanket statements for any genre, adapting from any medium. So I don't know how other people do it, but we look at adapting from a video game the way you look at adapting from a book or a play or anything that's not a movie and just try to apply the same basic rules of common sense. Do we have the right writer? Do we have the right writing team? Do we have the right filmmaker? I think anything can become a great movie if the filmmakers are cast. Well.
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B
Got it. That was followed by Sinners, Big Swing. Were you at any point nervous about how it was going to do?
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A
No.
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C
I mean, I think from the moment we read the script, Ryan is just a singular vision visionary filmmaker. The moment we read the script, we saw it on the page, collaborating with him. I mean, I just think what this movie has meant to audiences and how it's ignited them in conversation. I mean, there was this amazing moment that happened over the course of the film when it was released, and there was an open letter written to the studio and to Ryan from a young man from Clarksdale, Mississippi, who drove 90 minutes twice to see the film because Clarksdale doesn't have a movie theater. So we brought a movie theater to Clarksdale, Mississippi, and we went down there for the weekend and we met members of the community and this young man who is an organizer. And it was, honestly, it was one of the most special moments of my career. I can't tell you the conversations that were had and the audience feeling that movie, feeling that music, meeting the musicians who live and who Ludwig and Ryan gathered for the, you know, from the Delta blues to create this movie. You can't take that away. That is the power of storytelling.
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B
You talk about wanting to be in business with the best filmmakers. We have Ryan coming on later today. So I'm curious what, like, you've worked with, between the two of you, probably most of the best directors and in Hollywood, what is it that sets Ryan apart from his peers? Is there something specific about him that.
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A
You feel like, you know, we love all our children kind of a thing.
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B
But I'm not asking you to say why he's not.
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A
I get it. But I'll tell you, I'll tell you straight up. Ryan is all heart and, you know, he did a thing. We didn't think it was going to become a marketing tool, but he did a thing where he explained it was for Kodak, just why he picked the film formats he picked and why. I mean, he's talking about perfs and things that I should know. I mean, I kind of know. But he makes it completely. Not only understandable, but he managed in an instructional thing for Kodak to connect with cinephiles of like, hey, the subtext was, I made this for you. I took the time to really pore over what would be the best presentation of this story for you. A theatrical audience. And they felt, wow, this guy made it for us. I'm gonna go see it on a big screen. Ryan's ability to connect with his audience, both in the material and then just talking about his movies is really unique to Ryan.
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C
Yeah.
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A
And we're now making every director do it, even if they have to get training.
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B
One thing that was really well publicized leading up to the film's release is in order to get the rights, you had agreed to give him ownership. I think 25 years after the fact. Why do you think that became such a talking point? And have you done that with other filmmakers previously?
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C
I think I just think there was an outsized conversation about it because it was unique, but it was unique to this movie and it was unique to Ryan's, you know, to this deal. I think the importance of this movie and how it's affected audiences is what we should all be talking about. Because honestly, I went to the theater that opening weekend and seeing audiences on 70 millimeter IMAX, it's the greatest feeling in the world.
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B
Both you talked about the Kodak video. One of the things that I think Minecraft and Sinners shared is they both developed a lot of momentum online which felt organic. And so I'm curious, when it feels like a lot of things become hits almost beyond your control, how do you plan for that? When you're thinking about green lights, when you're thinking about marketing, because you obviously can't factor in like, well, this one's gonna go viral on TikTok and this one's not.
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A
Well, one of the things David tasked us with was even though we inherited the organization, what's the right balance for the era that we're in? So that involved a reorg of marketing and distribution. So when we elevated the next generation of marketing leaders at the studio, we talked about virality a lot. We talked about where audiences are getting their movie advertising now and what the kindling is for each project to light those bonfires online. And getting that core audience, whether it was the gamers on Minecraft or the African American audience on Sinners, really white hot over something that we knew they were going to like. And being able to amplify that heat to the general audience really became the Coin of the realm in our new marketing department. So while you can't plan for it, you can arrange the chess pieces to take advantage of it if it happens.
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B
Are we going to get sequels to either Minecraft or Sinners?
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A
You're definitely going to get a sequel to Minecraft. Sinners is such a singular vision from a signature filmmaker and it wasn't really set up to be an expanded universe. We just think it's again, another cinematic masterpiece we're lucky to have.
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C
Yeah.
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B
Cool. One more question about this year's slate. You have, I think, the only all of the horror movies to GROSS More than $100 million and nothing else has worked at that level other than our movies are good. Can you give some explanation for why your horror movies have worked better than others, including those from some people who've had a lot of success in the recent history?
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A
Sure. I mean, I got to call out Richard Brenner, who pitched a perfect game for us this year, and his second lieutenant, Dave Neustetter. When we looked at the IP that new line was sitting on, reactivating the Final Destination franchise, adding to the Conjuring universe were priorities, but we always try to. When we're doing legacy sequels, we think it's really important to innovate within the genre or innovate within the franchise. So I think one of the reasons they over performed, aside from the fact that we supercharged the marketing department with fresh thinking, is Final Destination wasn't just another chapter. It was an idea by John Watts from the Spider man trilogy. And it's kind of a fun story. He had a first date with his soon to be wife at a Final Destination movie. So it was an incoming call that new line got. John Watts was like, hey, do you mind if I come up with a story for Final Destination? And they were like, yeah, that'd be great. And then Zach and Adam, who directed, brought this incredible sense of humor and you know, they did a reel remember when they were, when they were presenting to us, they worshiped the premise. Their approach to it was fresh and innovative. I kind of give Universal props for bringing that to Jurassic park and through the Fast and Furious franchises. We think with franchises that are particularly long in the tooth, you really have to innovate within the genre. So I think Final Destination overperformed because of Zack and Adam and just the thinking that went into it from Jon Watts and Michael Chavez with Conjuring, he received the reins from James Wan and Jason Blum and kind of became the creative clearinghouse and his, I think the common Element is none of them were phoned in. None of them were. Oh, it's a bunch of executives in a room saying, milk that franchise. It was talent first. So Michael's excitement, Zach and Adam's excitement. Audiences, I think, can tell when something is not prefabricated or phoned in when it has a reason to be. And we always think that's the filmmakers. So we were able to. I think that's why those horror films over perform. And then Zach is it. Craig is just a breath of fresh air for an audience. I still think that star for originality, he's just like a really exciting new presence as the director of Weapons.
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C
Yeah, yeah, Weapons. I mean, that was one of the best scripts I've read in like probably.
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A
The last 10 years. And just the quality of it, I think it was key to that movie over performing.
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C
That's the other thing that's important is the script. You know, it all starts with the story and it all starts with the script. And if it's on the page and you have the right filmmaker that approaches especially some of the IP with zero cynicism, because they love the ip, they love these characters. I just think that magic comes together and that with the marketing is what makes it.
- [15:08]
A
Although to go back to your earlier question, to Pam's point, I think one of the reasons negative costs have climbed out of control and this is just was my experience as a producer, studios, when they greenlight something without a lock script, and then you're writing during production or God forbid, pre production, and then you're fixing in post to make a release date, your cost balloon. So if you can really be. It's hard, but if you can really be disciplined about locking that script before greenlight and not having to have to face 20, 30, 40% of the movie reshot in post, especially on a special effects movie, you can maintain some cost controls. We lowered the average negative cost at the studio from 168 to 128 or 106 even this year. And it just takes discipline.
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B
We're going to ask the audience a question so that we don't have to make you choose between your children.
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C
Okay.
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B
But I'm still going to ask you for your thoughts.
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A
Thank you. That's very compassionate of you.
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B
Which director has had the best career? I guess that really depends.
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C
What is that?
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B
I know. Are you talking about commercially? Are you talking about who's just made the best movies? Who's made the most interesting range of movies?
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A
It's kind of fun to throw that out there, though, and see how your audience is feeling.
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B
Well, we'll get the answer.
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C
Do you get the answer?
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B
Yes, we will see how the audience feels. I like that I said I wasn't going to ask you a lot about M and A, but I do have to ask you, how are you guys feeling about the spin of your company? And what is the mood internally about the changes to come?
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C
Yeah, I mean, listen, we're focused. As you know, we announced earlier that we're splitting the company into two different entities and that's where we're focused on. And really, nothing has changed the day to day. We're co CEOs of the movie business. We're planning our slates for 26, we're planning our slates for 27. So nothing has changed. And we're feeling really excited, as you can imagine.
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A
You know, when we, when there's a good run at a studio, morale is pretty high. So we have, we have great morale at the studio right now. The team has clicked, you know, almost like a tribe or a family. It's been two years of transformation and this slate was kind of the inaugural slate of the new Warner Brothers. So everyone's morale is very high. But as far as the moment we're in, we just figured there's always going to be speculation and we just try to keep our heads down and stick to the job at hand.
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B
And what has the response been like internally when you have sort of constant headlines about the guy who was just here buying your company?
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C
You know, our North Star. Our North Star is do the work, Keep your head down and do the work. There's always going to be speculation in our business. We're in a, you know, a massive time of disruption and everyone's going to constantly be saying, what's going to happen next? Who's going to be there? Who's, you know, you can't focus on that. You have to focus on the work. And I think what's so exciting about Warner Brothers right now, even though it's an over 100-year-old company, we, we all approach it with, like, startup energy. So it's just, it's actually a really great time to be making movies and tv.
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A
Our teams, you know, have. Our teams are used to it because it's, you know, it's, you know, this.
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B
Company has been bought and sold.
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A
Some of the, some of the inherited Warner people, you know, understand this feeling. But to Pam's point about startup energy, when we started to work for David, one of his edicts to us is challenge all assumptions. The business has to transform. It has to adapt to the moment we're in. And we talked about Moneyball a lot because Billy Beane in that movie and in the book was all about adapt or die. So the company right now has been battle tested and has been challenging assumptions for two years. So we're heading to, as far as the day to day, like we're heading for that split. That's the course that David has charted. And people trust David because this whole slate strategy, this whole diversified slate, the label strategy, getting DC up on its feet, getting new line, pumping, getting animation, which comes online for us next year, pumping. We still think it's the winning strategy. And he was really the author of that for us.
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B
Can we get the poll results back up there for one second? Just because it looked like Jim Cameron was the big winner, followed by pta. Ok. I also would have no Baumbach last on that list, no offense. You have a movie coming out early next year, I believe, which is the Emerald Fennel Margot lobby movie, Withering Heights, if memory serves. You won that in a sort of competitive auction against Netflix. Had a bigger bid, but Netflix did not offer a theatrical release. Why do you think they still don't embrace theaters? And does that help you when you're competing for projects?
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C
I can't speak to their strategy because obviously we don't work there. I just know that it's a choice for filmmakers. And I think both theatrical and streaming, they can coexist. They're just different offerings and a different experience. And I think it really comes down to the filmmakers and where do they see the best way to view their film? And I think I'm withering. Emerald wanted a global theatrical release. It is an epic love story. And she wanted to. She just chose and her and Margot chose that they wanted the big theatrical release and that's show up in theaters first and then go down through its different windows. And that's how it ended up.
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A
Right.
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B
Do you think you could ever work at a company that didn't put its movies in theaters?
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C
Us personally?
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B
Yeah.
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A
To be honest with you, I've thought about this. I've thought about this just as a life choice. Before I went to work for mgm, when I was a producer, just at that point in my career as a producer, I was doing more series than features. And I think, even though I didn't admit it to myself, I think personally, I don't think I want to be around movies unless they're going to movie theaters. I think if I went back to Producing. And I was engaging with streamers who weren't offering theatrical releases. I'd probably be doing a lot of series.
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C
Yeah, I feel the same.
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A
It's a very personal. Just personal feeling.
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C
Yeah, I feel the same. I just. I go to the movies almost every weekend. My daughter and my husband and I. It's something we love to do. There's nothing like it, you know, there's nothing like sitting in a theater and laughing and crying and just experiencing something communally. So I probably feel the same as Mike.
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B
We're gonna do some quick, fun movie questions to end. There's a lot of discussion about the dearth of new movie stars. Who do you think are the. Are three young actors that can open a movie right now?
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C
Timothee Chalamet.
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A
Timothee Chalamet.
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C
Zendaya.
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A
I love Florence Pugh. Zendaya Harris Dickinson, I think is on the rise. I think there's actually a great crop of new talent. I think young moviegoers want to create their own movie stars.
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C
Yeah.
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B
Are comic book movies on the decline?
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A
God, I hope not. She knows I'm a giant comic book nerd. And I still have. I have my adult collection and my childhood collection. I didn't let my mother throw out any.
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C
You can't stump him on any question about.
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A
I don't. I agree with James Gun. I don't think there's superhero fatigue. I think there's mediocre movie fatigue. So I'm very Gun shy of blanket statements. But I thought what he did.
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B
But wouldn't that mean that every superhero movie getting released right now that isn't Spider man is mediocre?
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A
No. But I do think the bar for innovating within the genre is high because you can have a good movie and you could be mediocre only because that movie's been made many times before. It could be a good example of itself. But if you're not innovating within the genre, which I think is a high bar, we all have to clear on every movie. But especially in a movie, in a genre that's been. You've had a lot of it over the last 10 years. The burden is to innovate. And I think what James did with Superman, you know, going back to the DNA of what made the character popular in the first place, was kind of innovative because we've only had the dour version for so long.
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B
Because you're a comic book guy. Do you have a favorite comic book movie?
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A
I love All My Children Again, but I was 13 when Donner's Superman came out and that was really the first big screen treatment of a comic book character. And in those days, you know, being a comic book fan wasn't hoity toity the way it is now. Like you would get picked on and beaten up. So when that movie came out and was like the number one movie, it was very validating and it stayed with me.
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B
I know you don't like blanket statements, but we're gonna go with a couple more. Will comedies work in theaters at any point again?
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C
I believe they can. I'm.
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A
In fact, how about our comedy town?
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C
In fact, we just started shooting a comedy on Monday that Jonah Hill wrote and he's directing and him and Kristen Weger starring these over privileged brothers and brother and sisters who get cut off from their parents and it's hysterical. And we just started on Monday you.
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B
Told me about that movie and then I looked at the release date for next year and I got very nervous that it's dated against the Odyssey.
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C
Oh, I think it's perfect that it's.
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A
We were hoping for like a repeat of Barbenheimer.
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C
We had a good time with Barbenheimer.
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B
What is a movie that either one of you made that you feel didn't get as much credit as it should have?
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A
Well, look, this is very personal. You're probably all going to go, what, what was that movie? What is he talking about? We made a movie called Cyrano during the Pandemic for MGM that Joe Wright directed with Peter Dinklage that I just cry through and love and I love all the music and I was really sorry we couldn't do better by that movie.
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B
Last question. Do you feel that movies are as central to culture today as they were when you started your careers?
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C
Absolutely. I think, I think it's harder to engage the audience today than maybe in the 90s when I started. But I think when you have that, that, that storm that comes of a great filmmaker, a great story and kindling that you can ignite with marketing, I do think it's, it pierces the culture.
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A
I'll go.
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C
I think we've seen that this year over and over again. Whether it was Minecraft or Sinners or Weapons or even Paul's movie. Again, I went to the, I went to the theater, I went to the Vista to watch Paul's movie in VistaVision and show it to my daughter last weekend for. And it was like being at a rock concert. The way it played. It was thrilling.
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A
Yeah, I'll go one better. I think it's a public health service that we provide because it's not a business.
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B
A public health, absolute health service.
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A
When we're In David has TCM playing in his office 24 7. You know, all we do is talk about movies all the time. And we talk about they're empathy machines. When you go into a theater, when you get off your couch, because, let's face it, like, is life better if you isolate more? No, it's better when you go out and feel some collective humanity. So when you're in a theater and you're in Minecraft, or you're in Cineres or you're in any of our movies and people are laughing at the same joke or crying at the same heartbreak, you feel connected. And that's a good thing. And we should have more of it.
- [25:24]
C
There are two kinds of people in the world. People who think about climate change and people who are doing something about it. On the Zero podcast, we talk to both kinds of people. People you've heard of, like Bill Gates.
- [25:36]
A
I'm looking at what the world has to do to get to zero, not using climate as a moral crusade.
- [25:42]
C
And the creative minds you haven't heard of yet. It is serious stuff, but never doom and gloom. I am Akshat Ratty. Listen to Zero every Thursday from Bloomberg Podcasts, on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere else you get your podcasts.