Mark Gurman Talks Apple's Lawsuit with OpenAI

Summary

---

Bloomberg Talks: Mark Gurman Talks Apple's Lawsuit with OpenAI

Date: July 14, 2026
Host: Bloomberg Team
Guest: Mark Gurman, Chief Correspondent on Technology and Apple, Bloomberg News

---

Episode Overview

This episode centers on Apple’s unprecedented lawsuit against OpenAI, the recent surge of talent defections from Apple to OpenAI, and what this means for innovation, competition, and Apple’s future product lineup. Mark Gurman offers insider perspectives on Apple’s motivations, the effectiveness of the lawsuit, and what’s next for both Apple and the tech industry as AI reshapes company dynamics.

---

Key Topics & Insights

1. Apple's Turbulent Moment: Leadership, Losses, and Lawsuit

• Apple’s Internal Challenges:
  • Ongoing management transition: Tim Cook set to step down in September, John Turner taking over.
  • Navigating external pressures: memory shortages, global politics, and tariffs.
  • “But like, it feels like the biggest thing they've been dealing with over the last year is actually open air.” (C, 01:18)
• Unprecedented Talent Exodus to OpenAI:
  • Nearly 400 Apple employees have left for OpenAI—estimated to be 5-10% of OpenAI’s staff. (01:29)
  • “In Apple's history, completely unprecedented. OpenAI probably made up between 5 and 10% of that company… from Apple.” (C, 01:45)
• The Lawsuit as a Warning Signal:
  • Lawsuit spurred by a case where an ex-Apple engineer allegedly hacked into servers post-departure, stealing engineering materials.
  • Gurman suggests Apple’s legal move is “kind of flimsy” and partly designed to scare current employees and stem further departures.
  • “What Apple's doing here is they created a narrative to scare their current employees, I think.” (C, 02:23)

2. Why Are Apple Employees Leaving?

• Slowing Innovation at Apple:
  • Gurman notes Apple’s “innovation engine has slowed down” and staff are enticed by the opportunity to “build the next iPhone” at OpenAI. (C, 03:10)
• Financial Incentives:
  • OpenAI offers “3, 4 or 5x what Apple is doing” in salaries. (C, 03:19)
  • “You're getting… more money with the promise of working on something far cooler.” (C, 03:38)

3. Apple’s Next Act: Product Pipeline and AI Integration

• Massive Wave of New Products:
  • Despite rumors of innovation slowdowns, Gurman reveals, “what Apple is going to do over the next two and a half years… has never happened before in its history.”
  • “There’s a lot coming. You've never seen anything like this. My credit card is already… it's shaking.” (C, 04:19)
• Upcoming Innovations:
  • Focus on AI wearables (smart glasses, AirPods with AI), home AI devices (smart home hub & pendant), and the anticipated “iPhone Ultra” foldable phone. (C, 05:35, 07:45)
  • “Apple’s future, the next three years, extraordinarily strong… They've got stuff coming that's going to blow your mind.” (C, 05:37)
• Integration as Market Strategy:
  • Hardware plus AI synergy is Apple’s big play.
  • “Integration of hardware and AI is the next step.” (C, 07:45)

4. Siri’s AI Leap & Changing the AI Narrative

• Siri’s Dramatic Improvement:
  • Release of the new Siri AI “public beta came out yesterday”—from “completely incompetent to competent.”
  • “For 95% of people, the Siri in your pocket now will do absolutely what you expect, and it’s terrific.” (C, 06:15)
• Addressing Fears of “Missing AI”
  • Gurman suggests Apple is catching up fast in AI capabilities, aiming to overturn the “lagging behind” narrative. (D & C, 06:12)

5. Impact of the Lawsuit on Tech Talent Mobility

• Scaring Staff into Staying:
  • Gurman believes the public lawsuit intentionally discourages moves to OpenAI, warning staff that “Apple security is going to go after you.”
  • “If you’re an Apple employee and you read that lawsuit, you’d have to be a lunatic to not second guess going to open air.” (C, 07:01)
• The Core Issue: People as Assets:
  • “It’s the people, they walk out the door. Your assets walk out the door every day at 5:00.” (D, 06:47)

6. Apple TV+ and Marketing Strategy

• Streaming Is Not About Profit—Yet:
  • Apple TV+ is “not a moneymaker… it’s a marketing engine”—used to get people invested in Apple’s brand ecosystem. (C, 08:51)
  • “The tide is sort of turning… they are going to turn a profit on Apple TV at some point.” (C, 09:09)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Talent Losses:
  • “400 people… in Apple’s history, completely unprecedented.” — Mark Gurman (C, 01:31)
• On Lawsuit Motivation:
  • “What Apple’s doing here is they created a narrative to scare their current employees.” — Mark Gurman (C, 02:23)
• On OpenAI’s Competitive Pull:
  • “OpenAI is paying 3, 4 or 5x what Apple is doing.” — Mark Gurman (C, 03:19)
• On Future Innovation:
  • “There is so much stuff coming that I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it.” — Mark Gurman (C, 04:19)
• On Siri's Leap:
  • “What they've gone from on Siri is completely incompetent to competent.” — Mark Gurman (C, 06:15)
• On Lawsuit Effect:
  • “Apple security is going to go after you if you go to OpenAI.” — Mark Gurman (C, 07:13)
• On Apple TV+:
  • “Not a moneymaker... a marketing engine. People ignore that this is part of the marketing budget.” — Mark Gurman (C, 08:51)

---

Important Timestamps

• 01:03 – Apple’s current challenges and leadership transition
• 01:29 – Scope and shock of talent loss to OpenAI
• 02:07 – Apple’s suspicions and basis for lawsuit
• 03:03 – OpenAI’s draw: innovation and salary
• 04:19 – Preview of Apple’s upcoming product wave
• 05:35 – Next-gen Apple devices: AI, wearables, home
• 06:15 – Siri’s new AI capabilities
• 07:01 – Lawsuit’s real goal: deterring further departures
• 08:51 – Role of Apple TV+ in Apple’s strategy

---

The Bottom Line

Mark Gurman breaks down Apple’s bold offensive against OpenAI not just as a legal maneuver, but as a calculated, if contentious, effort to lock down its top talent and shift the narrative around innovation. The episode paints a picture of an Apple facing internal turbulence, fighting to keep its best people, and betting big on a blockbuster pipeline of AI-infused hardware and home devices. Gurman’s perspective: Apple’s next act is about deep integration—hardware plus AI—and a return to aggressive innovation.

---

Useful for listeners who want context on Apple’s legal strategies, competitive pressures from AI firms, and an insider’s snapshot of what’s in store for the world’s most valuable tech company.

Transcript

[A]

The thing about AI for business, it may not automatically fit the way your business works. At IBM, we've seen this firsthand. But by embedding AI across hr, IT and procurement processes, we've reduced costs by millions, slash repetitive tasks, and freed thousands of hours for strategic work. Now we're helping companies get smarter by putting AI where it actually pays off, deep in the work that moves the business. Let's create smarter business IBM.

[B]

So what we're going to do is fly in the men from L A and we're going to have a light. We're commercial free with you this hour. Thank you to our all of our wonderful advertisers for that. And this is on Apple. Mark Gurman flat out drives a conversation worldwide. He joins us, our chief correspondent on technology and Apple at Bloomberg News. How's Tim Cook doing? I mean, the litigation and all were there like tantrums and arguments over the last two weeks as Apple went after SAM and OpenAI.

[C]

I have to tell you, they're dealing with so much right now. They have this big management transition, right? Tim Cook stepping down at the beginning of September, John Turner taking over. They're dealing with the memory shortage, dealing with global politics, Trump tariffs, you name it, right? But like, it feels like the biggest thing they've been dealing with over the last year is actually open air. Tim Cook, the executive team over there, they've been beside themselves.

[B]

They've lost 400 people.

[C]

400 people. And in their mind, they needed to do something to stop the bleeding.

[B]

How can they stop people from leaving?

[C]

Well, the lawsuit, the lawsuit, okay, but

[B]

the lawsuit, every, every day, everybody leaves, we lose people at Bloomberg, we gain people.

[C]

Yes, but what, so what here we don't lose, you know, another company, right? Competitor, 10% of that company isn't made up of Bloomberg employees, right? It's 400 people leaving one company for another company. And it's in Apple's history, completely unprecedented. OpenAI probably made up between 5 and 10% of that company is made up of people who came from Apple.

[B]

It's.

[C]

In Apple's view, it's absurd. Apple believes there was some shady behavior going on. They couldn't prove it, of course, until they caught this kid, this iPhone engineer named Chang Lu, who hacked into Apple servers after he left the company and was able to pull engineering presentations and all sorts of other material. And so they were able to build a case around that. But, but one thing I'll tell you is even so, the lawsuit is kind of flimsy. Like you said, people transfer between companies all the time. That is commonplace. But what Apple's doing here is they created a narrative to scare their current employees, I think. And if you're an Apple employee right now and you're teetering between staying at Apple and going to open AI here,

[B]

Mr. Bloomberg walks by me, says, if you don't shape up, I'm cutting off coffee.

[C]

Oh, that's funny.

[B]

PA Sweeney with Mark.

[D]

What's the, what's, what's the intent here of Apple here? Is it maybe, as you suggest, maybe to scare existing employees, but if you don't like to be in a position where you have to do that, you want to create an environment where you want to stay at Apple because it's Apple, well, there.

[C]

Okay, well, how much time do we have? But let's unpack this. So Apple has been dealing with a lot lately. Obviously the innovation engine has slowed down. There are a lot of people who wanted to go to OpenAI and work on this new technology with the promise of building something revolutionary, thinking we're going to build the next iPhone. Right. The other thing you have to know is that OpenAI is paying 3, 4 or 5x what Apple is doing.

[B]

Paying them more money.

[C]

They're paying them more money.

[B]

It's like when they go from the Giants to the Dodgers.

[C]

It's the company. It's the combination of. Yeah, there's no salary cap in Silicon Valley. Right. You're getting the combination of more money with the promise of working on something far cooler. Not doing the same phone or iPad or Apple watch.

[B]

And they're all wearing Bruno Cuccinelli T shirts. I get it. Like the way you style. Mark. Is there business? I mean, are we going to get a bombshell for them this quarter like we did from IBM this morning? I don't see it.

[C]

No, that's not going to happen. In fact, if you want a record high yesterday. Well, let's turn the conversation then to Apple's future. What Apple is going to do over the next two and a half years in terms of new products has never happened before in its history. There is so much stuff coming that I am having a hard time wrapping my head around it. There's a lot coming. You've never seen anything like this. My credit card is already. I can feel it in my pocket. It's shaking.

[B]

I mean, I mean, I haven't. Folks, I don't get tweaked nerdy on this, but I'm going to do it with young Gurman. I got an M3 Ultra at home.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

I have a 2019 Mac Pro, which I'm using as a coffee table to put a martini on.

[C]

I didn't know you were that cool. I mean, I know you were cool, but I didn't know you were, like, M3 ultra cool.

[B]

I have an M3 ultra. Blah, blah, blah. I don't want to get into it because you're. Your conversation is more important than mine. I don't see any innovation slowdown here. I got a new Alexis. Go. Would somebody go up, go out to my man bag at my desk and pull out the Neo.

[C]

Okay. The new Just so Mark and see. Incredible. My wife just got one last week. That machine is awesome. Even though they did the $100 price hike, at $700, you're not getting anything in that category. So, yeah, that is an innovative product and she loves it. Everyone I know who has the Neo absolutely loves it. By the way, there's a new Neo coming next year.

[B]

They hit a record high yesterday. Woe is me, Apple. Paul, you got to be kidding me. IBM is down 20%.

[C]

It's ridiculous.

[B]

These guys are rocking the free world because they're not doing all this stuff right.

[C]

Right. I mean, it's funny. People say, oh, Apple's the new IBM. Apple's the new Microsoft, and they mean it in a negative sense. No, no, no, no, no. Apple's future, the next three years, extraordinarily strong AI wearables. They're working on three wearables and they're working on three AI home products. They've got stuff coming that's going to blow your mind. From smart glasses to this new smart home device. I'm pumped. And don't get me started on the iPhone. Ultra. The foldable phone. I'm really excited for that.

[D]

So you think Apple, from an investor's perspective, can shake the concern that they're kind of missing AI? They're lagging behind AI. Can they change that narrative, do you think?

[C]

Have you tried the new Siri AI on the phone?

[B]

No.

[C]

So the public beta came out yesterday. I've been using it since the beginning of June, the developer beta. But the new Siri AI, what they've gone from on Siri is completely incompetent to competent. I'm not saying it's anywhere near as good as ChatGPT, but for 95% of people, the Siri in your pocket now will do absolutely what you expect, and it's terrific.

[B]

Paul. 28.

[E]

Finally.

[B]

28. Thank you. Finally. Yeah. I don't get Siri. 28.7% per year for the last 10 years, this company is a failure.

[D]

Exactly.

[B]

It's terrible.

[D]

Exactly. So what's next stage for this suit here? Because this kind of goes to the heart and soul of any tech company. It's the people, they walk out the door. Your assets walk out the door every day at 5:00'.

[B]

Clock.

[C]

Well, let me just say, well, in some places, five o'.

[D]

Clock.

[C]

But let me tell you this, if you're an Apple employee and you read that lawsuit, you'd have to be a lunatic to not second guess. Going to open air. The way that Apple frames this, the way Apple, Apple talks about how you're their security is going to go after you if you go to OpenAI. I think Apple employees are going to be very scared to move between companies at this point.

[B]

Do you have winners and losers in your head? You don't have to tell us because I understand it's rude. But if there's like seven players in AI, does Mark Gurman know these two or three aren't going to make it?

[C]

That are not going to make it? Well, I'll tell you this. I guess people are listening in on this one to hear about Apple. Apple's going to make it because Apple's a hardware company at its very core and they have the models now from Google to do cool hardware stuff. And I think that these six AI products that they're coming out with are going to do an effective job. I think they're going to sell well and I think the integration of hardware and AI is the next step for those again. Okay, so we're going to see a few next year and a few the year after. Okay, You've got smart glasses, you've got AirPods with AI. You've got a pendant, you've got the smart home hub, basically. Tom, Paul, you put the smart home command center on your desk, you put it in your kitchen, you put it wherever you walk up to it and it's like, oh, hi Paul, right. Be able to pull up your news, your notes, your music, you'll do FaceTime on it. It's going to be a really cool device. It's a game changer.

[B]

Have you met Rebecca Ferguson? I mean, a guy as cool as you like Silo season three on it. Apple rocking it right now. Are you going to be one of these people at the beginning? That's an executive producer, Mark, you know, how's that whole thing going for them for Apple?

[C]

You're talking about the home devices?

[B]

No, I'm talking about Apple TV and silos. The new season and there's exec, there's all these fancy.

[C]

I see people. I don't executive producers. It's not a moneymaker for them. What it is is a marketing engine. Right. How many people are falling in love with these shows and they're like, I want to be part of the secret system. So I think that people ignore that this is part of the marketing budget, even though it's a money loser. But, like the tide is sort of turning, right? Like a few years ago it felt like, I don't know, how much longer are they going to do this for? Now it's feeling like they can do this forever and they are going to turn a profit on Apple TV at some point.

[B]

What's so great is we have Gerard Cassidy coming up up in Portland, Maine, who's using an iPhone 8.

[C]

It's like Nixon was iPhone 8. 2017. It still works.

[B]

It still works. I think it still works even. What's more amazing is Gerard Cassidy still works. Mark Gur, thank you. Thank you so much for joining us in our studios. Usually I see him at the bar at the Sunset Tower in L. A, but he's here today and that's a good thing on Apple is, is.

[E]

Well, health care doesn't always work great. If you've ever waited on a refill or couldn't schedule an appointment, you get it. That's the kind of stuff Optum is changing. They're using data and technology to integrate patient care, pharmacy and everything else. So healthcare is connected, not complicated. What's that look like? Cheaper prescriptions that are easier to get and care that looks at the whole person how you need it. Optum is helping make healthcare work as one for everyone. Learn [e-mail].