Ed Ludlow (2:26)

Exactly. So that's exactly thought that went through my head. How much does language in a statement matter? And so I'm actually going to throw that question to to anorak. But basically that is the language extraordinary demand but they also basically specifically calling out the 17E. Is that enough anorag to infer an upgrade cycle? Just that that one sentence in a statement.

Anurag Rana (2:50)

See if you go back and look at the previous quarter we saw Apple iPhone's doing really well this quarter. It's done well, we think the consensus of, you know, roughly around 8% increase in iPhone may not be enough. I mean, they may have to raise those numbers, but we'll only find out about on the conference call because they don't give guidance on the there in the release. So, you know, I'm expecting now, based on what I read, that there is a high likelihood that they will talk about another strong iPhone quarter. You know, that's the upcoming quarter honor you said too.

Host (3:23)

In our preview before these numbers, you said Apple's the only one who has not taken up prices because of memory shortages and it has given them an opportunity to gain share. Should they continue to do that, in your view, not raise prices and go after share? I mean, is China indicative of that or is that something else?

Anurag Rana (3:39)

100%, especially if the gross margins were 49, which is 200 basis points above last year. Absolutely. Because it looks like they are doing better deals with their memory providers than the rest of them. Now, I could be completely wrong. And on the conference call they say memory prices is hurting us and we may take some prices. But as of now, what I see is them gaining market share.

Host (4:02)

Ed, same thing. You know your thoughts in terms of what Anurag said in terms of pricing versus market share. This is, you know, the potential for a little bit of a grab here for Apple in some.

Ed Ludlow (4:12)

Yeah, I mean, you know, historically Apple, which, you know, has a relatively recent CFO in the seat, has been the master of the bottom line. Right. And so when it comes to memory, we have fixated on margins. Apple's price strategy has been less controversial. Should we say generation to generation? They, they would argue they keep the iPhone entry level, price static or even if it goes higher, they give you more memory storage for that, for that number. So the way that I look at it is like, is there any evidence that they share with, with the investor base about consumer behavior? In other words, like right now, is there a macro concern about the health of consumers in different markets? If you read down the release, they talk about strength in all geographic segments, but actually if they gave a bit more granularity of like, okay, well, China's good. How's things going in Europe, North America, Latam, Southeast Asia? That to me is kind of interesting.

Bloomberg Producer (5:11)

It is, is that where the NIO comes in? And that's sort of like a gateway drug to get more people into the iOS ecosystem.

Ed Ludlow (5:20)

The MacBook Neo, though, like, remember, different to the iPhone. It's an entrant into a market where Apple's not really played like a Chromebook category. Yeah, exactly. Lower price point go off to students, people in higher education.

Bloomberg Producer (5:35)

I would imagine though. I would imagine those people, though Ed would like experience using the interface of a Mac and then say wait a second, I don't have an iPhone right now, but I want to be able to use imessage as well as I could on this Mac. Would I buy an iPhone? I don't know, I'm just, especially in other parts of the world. I don't know.

Ed Ludlow (5:52)

I don't have anything intelligent to say about that other than, you know, what's interesting about the NEO is the processor is basically the same as the latest iPhone, you know, and that is one way that they were able to get it at that price point. I don't, I don't know how Anurag sees the NEO is like a sort of category defining piece of technology. But again like while you guys chat, I'll go back and look at the Mac numbers overall and see what we learned about everything outside of the iPhone just from the statement alone.

Anurag Rana (6:23)

So I mean when I look at the lower end Mac, frankly, I mean whether you're a student or you are an emerging market, this is a very good place for you to get in. Macs are much more stable than Windows devices. You know, I've had only two Macs in the last 18 years. I mean it's just unbelievably stable. Yeah, I mean it's, you know, it's a completely different ecosystem. But what you, what you actually do is you get more people to buy of services. And remember that's a high margin business there, that's 75% gross margins, whether it's the App Store or, you know, Apple Care, whatever it is. So I think the going down the curve and having an entry level product is extremely important, especially because the growth is only going to come from emerging markets. It's not going to come from Europe, Western Europe and it's not going to come from the US So I think it's a very good strategy.

Host (7:14)

I want to just. I'm looking at our live blog guys and Mark Gurman weighing in. We're going to hear from Mark shortly too. He's going to join this conversation. But he points out, I mean the stock's going back and forth between green and red. He says the main reasons are likely that although the iPhone sold extremely well, it didn't blow out Wall street expectations, instead it met them. And he says the other factor is the weaker than anticipated revenue coming from the Americas region. 45.1 billion versus forecasts of 45.8 billion. It's just interesting and to watch this share price in the aftermarket. It's investors kind of going back and forth. I thought it was going to be like maybe settle in and say it seems like you know, investors like it, it's solid, they're okay, let's move forward.

Ed Ludlow (7:52)

But well let's remember that we started this show and segment with Bloomberg's Mark Gurman who leads our coverage of consumer technology and is generally regarded as the leading journalist covering Apple on planet Earth saying this was not going to be about the transition of CEO and it was not going to be about learning about John Turner says the CEO what his strategy is. I don't know guys. To me this seems like a earnings.

Bloomberg Producer (8:23)

Please.

Anurag Rana (8:25)

Yes, save me Apple. Apple is trading at 30 times earnings. Microsoft is at 22, Google's at 29. After even after blowout results. So even after all of this Apple's still more expensive than them.

Bloomberg Producer (8:39)

Why?

Ed Ludlow (8:40)

Yeah.

Host (8:41)

And does it warrant it based on this, this result on Iraq or what?

Anurag Rana (8:45)

So I think it's a lot of has to do with the business model of the company. This is something we go back to. This is a far more stable business model with imagine 3% of revenues going into CapEx compared to 4045 for Microsoft. They are not raising Capex. They have an absolutely stellar ecosystem of products and guess what, whoever has the best model they're going to pay them a little bit of money to get them on their, on their platform. So it's a completely different business model than than the other max 7 and people like stability, people like the free cash flow nature of it.

Ed Ludlow (9:21)

Right.

Anurag Rana (9:21)

They're going to spend, they're going to generate over $100 billion in free cash flow and they're going to buy back their stock with it. They're not going to build data centers for that.

Ed Ludlow (9:29)

Can I read you something Anurag and then you can respond to it? Okay, I'm paraphrasing. Other companies have a clearer AI story and very different businesses to Apple. Apple's bottom of the year was March30. Apple trades at a premium despite slower growth than its peers. And the stock trading flat year to date reflects anxiety on component costs and memory. Do you know who wrote that? It was me. For 26pm Eastern Time. What do you make, what do you think of that?

Anurag Rana (10:03)

Sounds like we absolutely right. Yeah, absolutely right. But, but you know, all I'm saying is you know when you look at a company like an Apple and a Costco, it really different business model compared to all the others. And I think most people forget that this is something that's going to be around for a very long time. Spits out of a lot of cash even if in a quarter they don't grow, does not matter, the free cash flow still comes in and they keep on buying back more shares.

Host (10:29)

Yeah, right. So they, you know, investors are happy, investors are happy. You know so top of mind you guys, when we get to that call with analysts and investors, Anurag, is it memory prices? Is it what else memory prices?

Anurag Rana (10:46)

What's the iPhone story look like in the next quarter and what kind of new products can we see during the September? There will be questions on Citi but I think they will punt it and say well log in on June 8th and see it. But to be very honest, thanks to Mark Gurman we already know what's going to happen on June 8th.

Bloomberg Producer (11:03)

Yeah, I know. You got to read, read Mark to understand everything and not be, not be surprised.

Host (11:09)

Siri to understand me and answer me back questions like you know, a silly little address like it seems so far behind. Ed, you agree? Is it Siri? I mean it's funny, Marc has also shared with us, you know, a lot of the products that the new CEO, I think he did a story about a pipeline of 10 major products whether it's a smart home hub, tabletop robot, security device, smart glasses, AirPods, a pendant. I mean there's a lot of stuff. Are we going to get some, some more details here?

Ed Ludlow (11:40)

Well so, so like that is just not how, how the earnings call works, right? Yes, you get granularity in detail. Tim Cook, you know, I think he, he's the kind of CEO that goes well, I'm not an economist but. And we'll sort of go into the state of the world and Kevin the CFO is very good at explaining all of the, the plus and minus factors of the quarter. But those shiny things, you know, Apple intelligence, improvement on Siri handset innovation foldable. You know, June is wwdc, the annual developers conference. September takes us into the new hardware season. Tonight's not it, you know, and so you just need to find out the sort of plain balance sheet driven factors which sounds boring for the audience maybe, but that, that's so key when you cover a company of Apple's scale.

Host (12:30)

Well, I get that because you're looking at the stock now down about 1% so investors are obviously looking for a little bit more detail or a lot more detail when it comes to what's on the balance sheet. And Ludlow, we know you need to go at this moment. Thank you so much. Co host of BTECH on Bloomberg Television at 11am Monday through Friday on Bloomberg Television. Anurag is going to stick around, which we are grateful for.

Bloomberg Producer (12:50)

We were just having a discussion about margins on the rag and I know that front and center for you. I asked you that was the most important number to see. Have you had a chance to do the back of the envelope there and get the results?

Anurag Rana (13:01)

Yeah, the gross margins are up about 220 basis points. So that's a very good number. Now that could just be a big shift towards services. But I think the number one call, the question on the call has to be what are memory prices doing to all their products? And up till how long can we anticipate these margins actually holding up? Because when I looked at consensus, even before the call for the next two quarters, consensus is not anticipating any degradation in margins, which it was a bit surprising to me because we all know memory prices are through the roof right now.

Bloomberg Producer (13:34)

So help us out here is this. I just want to make sure we're looking at the right place in terms because it's not broken out in the release, but we're, we're gross. We're gross margins. 47.9%.

Anurag Rana (13:45)

49.2 compared to 47 last.

Bloomberg Producer (13:49)

Okay. 40 compared to 47 last quarter. Okay, thank you.

Anurag Rana (13:52)

Yeah. Last year, same quarter.

Bloomberg Producer (13:54)

Okay. Obviously I'm not looking at the right place.

Host (13:56)

Okay. We're looking on the FA function on the Bloomberg,

Bloomberg Producer (14:01)

on a rug with us.

Host (14:01)

Well, it's always kind of massive numbers. I feel like with Apple overall, which is kind of interesting. I want to go back to the China revenue story, that 20.5 billion, because it's been an area where they've struggled a little bit. Does this indicate a better trend line on Iraq in your view, going forward? Or we'll have to wait and see.

Anurag Rana (14:21)

So two things happen. One is easier comparison. When you really had a bad year, you know, you're going to go into the next year with a baseline that's low. So that's one second. You are also looking at promotions in that geography. Sometimes it's not like all the time, but you know, but when your competitor is raising prices, you take your base model and you push it as hard as you can and you actually get. You know, I would be very surprised if they don't say that China iPhone revenue, which they don't give, frankly, wasn't up more than 20, 25%. Like, I would be very surprised if that's not the number.

Bloomberg Producer (14:57)

Why?

Anurag Rana (14:59)

Because, you know, one of the things, as I said, the base was so small, they, I mean, in a sense the comparison was easier and they have been extremely aggressive in terms of marketing that product while the others have not been.

Bloomberg Producer (15:12)

Okay, okay, listen, you know, can you talk to us a little bit about, remind us just guidance wise, what Apple tells us on the call.

Anurag Rana (15:20)

So, so they would typically talk about a handful of things. One, they would give overall guidance in terms of total revenue growth. Sometimes they would give iPhone guidance. Sometime they want. Last time they did give some indication of where it could be. They talk about gross margins in total. They don't really go down on a segment level. And again, I think the number that usually is consistent is total revenue line. But the others, you know, things do bounce around. But I think the soft commentary around pricing of memory I think is going to be one of the most important factors.

Host (15:54)

How much leverage though? Anurag, I think we've talked about this with you. You know, they have this incredible supply chain.

Anurag Rana (16:02)

Massive.

Host (16:02)

They're a big customer. And when it comes to the supply chain, those who are supplying the components, they listen to the biggest and the loudest.

Anurag Rana (16:10)

You know, I have been surprised because yes, they are the biggest and they are. But you know, when something goes up 50%, 75%, 100%, you know, you, you, you understand even the person who's selling it cannot do anything about it. So you have to eat up some of the cost. So I think, you know, that is probably why I was saying I was a bit surprised when I looked at margins for the next quarter. They still looked healthy in a. I'm not seeing any degradation there. That's an area where we think there could have been hit. We had calculated it a while ago that, you know, that that number could be anywhere between 2 to 3% or somewhere, you know, in that range. But again, we are not seeing any of that at this point.

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