TUC General Secretary Paul Nowak Talks Andy Burnham's Economic Agenda

Summary

Bloomberg Talks: TUC General Secretary Paul Nowak Talks Andy Burnham's Economic Agenda

Date: June 25, 2026
Host: Carolyn (Bloomberg)
Guest: Paul Nowak, General Secretary, Trades Union Congress (TUC)

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Episode Overview

This episode features a focused conversation on the economic challenges awaiting Britain’s likely next Prime Minister, Andy Burnham, and explores the expectations of the trade union movement. Host Carolyn interviews Paul Nowak, General Secretary of the TUC, on crucial policy hopes, the future of employment rights, tax policy—especially the prospect of a bank surcharge—and union support for Burnham’s economic agenda. Nowak shares candid insights on what working people expect from the forthcoming Labour administration, emphasizing fairness, support for lower and middle-income households, and the need for decisive leadership in the face of powerful business interests.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Economic Challenges for the Next Prime Minister

[00:17 – 01:06]

• Carolyn sets the stage, highlighting Britain’s major economic woes: stagnation, high debt, and borrowing costs.
• Andy Burnham is the presumed successor to Keir Starmer. The question: Can he deliver real economic change for working people?
• Nowak’s stance: Any incoming PM must act immediately to prove they’re “on the side of working people” by delivering an ambitious program in the first 100 days.

Key Quote:

"I want them to show from day one that they're on the side of working people, their families and communities and to set out an ambitious program in that first 100 days of a Labor government..." — Paul Nowak [01:06]

2. Tax Policy: Business, Banks, and the Social Tariff

[01:06 – 02:16, 03:35 – 05:18]

• Paul Nowak advocates a “social tariff” on energy bills, funded through an increase in the bank surcharge or bank levy, targeting windfall profits.
• The rationale: Banks have performed exceptionally in a high-interest environment, so they can afford to give back, helping families with energy bills and combating inflation.
• Carolyn presses on business concerns, quoting J.P. Morgan’s Jamie Dimon, who warns of scrapping UK investment if taxes rise further.

Key Quotes:

"...support for low middle income households, how can you pay for that? We think an increase in the bank surcharge, the bank levy on windfall profits can help the government do that." — Paul Nowak [01:31]
"A bank tax would be an absolute bombshell... Jamie Dimon... said specifically that JP Morgan, in his words, we paid probably $10 billion in extra taxes by now. I don't think that's right or fair." — Carolyn [03:36]

Nowak’s direct response:

"I'll take those comments with a pinch of salt... last year was a record year for bonuses in the city of London. 24 billion pounds handed out at the same time one in three people were worried about turning on the heating... We need an economy that works for everybody, not just those at the very top." — Paul Nowak [04:20]

3. Employment Rights: Business Pushback and Support

[02:16 – 03:35, 05:18 – 05:41]

• Business groups like the British Chambers of Commerce want to ensure the Employment Rights Act is workable for them, raising fears among unions of a potential rollback.
• Nowak stresses that improving employment rights benefits economic productivity and is widely supported across party lines.
• He cites polling showing public demand for better employment rights, regardless of party affiliation.

Key Quote:

"This is about making work pay for millions of working people... The government itself is clear that this could deliver a 13 billion pound boost to the UK economy in terms of productivity." — Paul Nowak [02:52]

4. Union Support and Political Challenges for Burnham

[05:18 – 06:25]

• Carolyn probes potential union disillusionment with Labour, referencing internal friction and critiques from prominent union leaders.
• Nowak affirms a desire to work constructively with Burnham or any new leader, stressing the need for a government that finally shows it is on the side of workers and addresses widespread political disillusionment.

Key Quote:

"There's a lack of faith in the political process and that's why I think... any politician just needs to nail the colors to the mast. Whose side are you? And my answer very clearly and unequivocally should be on the side of working people." — Paul Nowak [06:09]

5. Advisers and Economic Policy Direction

[06:25 – 07:21]

• The role of reported advisers (e.g., Andy Haldane, Jim O’Neill) sparks discussion—you can't let ‘fantasy politics’ dominate, says Nowak.
• His focus: Whoever is in charge, the test will be delivering an agenda that tangibly improves people’s lives.
• Reiterates: Opposition from “dodgy bosses” and billionaire interests is expected, but progressive change remains necessary.

Key Quote:

"Whoever's doing those key jobs... we want them sort of setting out an agenda where, where people can see this is going to make a difference to me and my family." — Paul Nowak [06:51]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On bank taxes:
  "I'll take those comments with a pinch of salt." — Paul Nowak responding to Jamie Dimon’s warning [04:20]

• On political disillusionment:
  "...when you ask people which party is best at sorting the fundamental problems... the don't knows beats any particular party at the moment." — Paul Nowak [05:58]

• On vested interests:
  "It's no surprise, Carolyn, that social media billionaires will rail against any efforts to raise wealth taxes and dodgy bosses will oppose any improvements in employment rights..." — Paul Nowak [07:21]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:17] — Introduction of guest and topic
• [01:06] — Key policies Nowak wants from the next PM
• [02:16] — Debate over Employment Rights Act
• [03:35] — Bank tax bombshell and J.P. Morgan warning
• [04:20] — Nowak addresses big business criticisms and bank surcharges
• [05:18] — Union confidence in Burnham and the Labour agenda
• [06:25] — Discussion of Burnham’s advisers and core priorities
• [07:21] — Nowak’s closing thoughts on vested interests

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Takeaways

• Paul Nowak demands urgent, decisive action from Andy Burnham or any incoming PM to champion working people through ambitious reforms focused on employment rights and fairer taxation, especially from those profiting most.
• The TUC seeks policies that put “more money in the pockets” of regular people.
• Nowak isn't swayed by corporate threats, believing large institutions can afford to contribute more, and wants Westminster to resist elite pressure.
• Widespread public support for enhanced employment rights is cited as a mandate for reform, regardless of party politics.
• Nowak’s tone is pragmatic, combative toward elite interests, and ultimately hopeful for a shift toward a fairer, more inclusive economy.

Transcript

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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[Interviewer (Carolyn)]

Let's get more on the economic challenges that face Britain's next Prime minister. Can Andy Burnham, who looks set to take over from Keir Starmer, help Britain escape weak activity, high debt and elevated borrowing costs? Joining us now is Paul Novak, General Secretary of Trade Trades Union Congress, the tuc, the umbrella body for dozens of trade unions, many of whom are affiliated with Labor. Good to speak to you again, Paul.

[Paul Novak]

Morning, Carolyn. Good to speak to you.

[Interviewer (Carolyn)]

Been speaking to the British Chambers of Commerce this morning. Obviously they represent business. They've got a lot of the leaders. Rachel Reeves speaking to them today. They employ millions of people in Britain. The BCC boss says that increasing taxes for business is, will be a road to ruin. But you do want more support for voters. What do you want to see from potentially Burnham if he does become pm?

[Paul Novak]

Well, well, whoever is our next Prime Minister and Andy Burnham at the moment is the only candidate, I want them to show from day one that they're on the side of working people, their families and communities and to set out an ambitious program in that first 100 days of a Labor government about what they're going to do to, yes, get our economy growing, but get our economy growing in a way that puts pockets in the money in the pockets of, of, of working people. So there are lots of things, I've got a long list of suggestions, Carolyn, but just on that issue around tax, I mean, so for example, we think it's important that, you know, we, we positive plan for the government to introduce a social tariff on energy bills. You know, hard to think on a day like today where the sun is cracking the flags about, you know, the cost of heating. But we know in the autumn and winter because of that conflict in Iran, lots of people are going to see big spikes in the bill. So support for low middle income households, how can you pay for that? We think an increase in the bank surcharge, the bank levy on windfall profits can help the government do that. I think that would be the right thing to do to support families. I think it would help bring down inflation and frankly, I think Britain's banks can afford it because they've been doing very well over the course last 18 months, two years, because we've been in a relatively high interest rate environment. So they're the sort of policies I think that could make a massive difference to millions of people up and down the country.

[Interviewer/Follow-up Questioner]

We spoke to the, when we spoke to the bcc, they said they wanted to have a discussion about the Employment Rights act to make sure it works for business. Are you worried about elements of that act being rolled back?

[Paul Novak]

Well, I think it would be a real mistake for the government to roll back on the Employment Rights Act. And you know, we've seen it already. I mean, I think the new Prime Minister will have a short honeymoon period and there will be lots of vested interests making the case or you know, change this or that and there will be some dodgy bosses out there who don't want to see improvements in employment rights. Now where I would agree with the British Chambers of Commerce is that there's going to be lots of change as a result of the Employment Rights Act. I think there's a responsibility on government to work with unions and employers to help employers understand those changes. But fundamentally this is about making work pay for millions of working people. So whether that's giving a million people on zero hours contracts the right to guaranteed hours, whether that's making sure that people have access to sick pay to flexible working, we're very clear. This is a packaging measures that's good for working people. The government itself is clear that this could deliver a 13 billion pound boost to the UK economy in terms of productivity. And I would ask employers to get on board with that agenda. And final point on that, our post election polling was very clear. It doesn't matter whether you voted reform at the last election. Labor, Green, Conservative, people support improvements in employment rights and I would hope that employers would respect that.

[Interviewer (Carolyn)]

Okay. A bank tax would be an absolute bombshell. But you know Jamie Dimon, if you look at him, J.P. morgan Chief, he has directly told Bloom, Bloomberg recently that if there were to be an increase in terms of taxes on banks, that JP Morgan would scrap plans to invest billions in a new London headquarters in Canary Wharf. He said specifically that JP Morgan, in his words, we paid probably $10 billion in extra taxes by now. I don't think that's right or fair. What would that mean, an extra bank tax if a major global bank were, you know, to progress with, you know, investment in London and the uk?

[Paul Novak]

Well, I'll be honest with you Carol, I'll take those comments with a pinch of salt. I mean the Tories reduced the bank surcharge by 3% three years ago. It is now. I think at the very least, considering those windfall profits of the banks are making, the government should Reverse that. But I think they can go further. I mean, the Tories themselves put a 35% levy on the windfall profits of the energy companies. And we're in a similar situation now with banks. And I would say to J.P. morgan and everybody else, reflect on the fact that last year was a record year for bonuses in the city of London. 24 billion pounds handed out at the same time. One in three people were worried about turning on the heating because they're heating bills. One in five was skipping meals because they can't make ends meet. We need an economy that works for everybody, not just those at the very top. And I, I think that those at the very top have done well over the last few years. They haven't been through a cost of living crisis. Millions of families have. So I think an incoming, an incoming Prime Minister has got to be prepared to take on those vested interests and show whose side they're on.

[Interviewer (Carolyn)]

Okay, but is Burnham really going to deliver that? Has he not lost the support of unions? Unites? Sharon Graham, for example, doesn't want the Energy Secretary, Ed Miliband, to become Chancellor. Has Burnham actually lost union support? Is he in danger of losing your union support if he doesn't come up with all of those measures that you want to see delivered quickly?

[Paul Novak]

No, I mean, as I say, I mean we're yet to see if any other candidates declare. I'm very clear if it's Andy Barnum or anybody else. We want to work with the new Prime Minister to deliver the change that people voted for back in July 2024. I think we've got an opportunity now to really reset things and really show working people that the government is on their side. You know, there's a lot of disillusionment with politics. I mean, that same post election poll I talked about before, when you ask people which party is best at sorting the fundamental problems like getting the economy back on track, the don't knows beats any particular party at the moment. There's a lack of faith in the political process and that's why I think, you know, any politician just needs to nail the colors to the mast. Whose side are you? And my answer very clearly and unequivocally should be on the side of working people.

[Interviewer/Follow-up Questioner]

Are you then concerned or what's your view on the people who are advising Andy Burnham on his economic policies? There's a whole list of them that have been reported. The likes of Andy Haldane, Jim o', Neill, Caris Roberts.

[Paul Novak]

Yeah, no, I think a lot of those people have got really Good qualities and we've done lots of work with them. And I'm not going to advise Andy on who he appoints as economic advisers, or Andy or any future Prime Minister or indeed their cabinet members. I mean, that sort of fantasy politics isn't my job. Whoever's doing those key jobs, whether it's Prime Minister, Chancellor, Secretary of State for Business and trade, we want them sort of setting out an agenda where, where people can see this is going to make a difference to me and my family. This is going to put more money in my pocket. And that. That's absolutely essential because if you want us a growing sustainable economy, where can people need money in their pockets? And for far too many people, household budgets are squeezed, work is insecure. I think the government's got an opportunity to do something about that.

[Interviewer (Carolyn)]

Yeah. Okay, so they're not the vested interest that you're concerned about.

[Paul Novak]

No. It's no surprise, Carolyn, that social media billionaires will rail against any efforts to raise wealth taxes and dodgy bosses will oppose any improvements in employment rights because that's what they did with the minimum wage and that's what they've done with every single progressive change in employment law. The new Prime Minister just has to be clear whose side they're on and nail the colours to the mast. On day one.

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