AI Funding Frenzy Continues with Cursor, Thinking Machines

Summary

Bloomberg Tech Podcast Summary

Episode: AI Funding Frenzy Continues with Cursor, Thinking Machines
Date: November 14, 2025
Hosts: Caroline Hyde (NY), Felix Gillette (SF)
Featured Guests: Melissa Tokmak, Natalie Gallagher, Lillian Rincon, Jacob Cook, Michael Joel Kosa, Rachel Metz

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into surging private sector funding in AI startups—highlighting massive rounds by Thinking Machines Lab and Cursor—amid ongoing debate about possible overvaluation or an “AI bubble.” The hosts examine the market volatility, discuss how economic/monetary policy affects tech growth, and provide a global perspective with a focus on China’s tech-driven Singles Day, regulatory/tariff pressures, and the changing landscape of enterprise and consumer AI tools.

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Key Segments & Insights

1. Market Volatility & The “AI Bubble” (03:00–06:24)

• Context: Tech stocks whipsawing—crypto drops sharply, while stocks show resilience after initial declines.
• Skepticism over Valuations: Skepticism about the Fed’s December moves; questions about sustainability of massive capex and AI-fueled gains.
• Notable Insight:
  • Melissa Tokmak: “Maybe this is time for a correction because this is a longer period than we’ve seen opposed to normal here, as we haven’t seen a correction here for the broader market…” (03:49)
• Options Market: Intense focus on Nvidia “Super Bowl” earnings next week (04:37). High VIX call option activity signals bracing for post-earnings volatility.
• Michael Burry Mention: Noted for suggesting that some tech companies are artificially padding earnings, raising questions about core fundamental value.

2. Fed Policy’s Impact on Tech & AI (06:24–10:44)

• Guest: Natalie Gallagher, Principal Economist, Board (AI-powered enterprise planning)
• Main Points:
  • The “AI Bubble” debate is nuanced; differences with dot-com era due to contracted services and strong balance sheets among hyperscalers.
  • Fed decisions have a huge impact (“tech is so rate sensitive”—07:14).
  • Real capital investment driving revenue and productivity, but “if we don’t see that…we risk a capital misallocation story” (09:23).
  • AI spending has driven GDP growth, but underlying economy (“K-shaped”) is bifurcated—layoffs even amid high-level tech investment.
• Notable Quote:
  • Natalie Gallagher: “What we really need to track is the investment that’s been taking place. There’s been a significant investment wave really across assets and this is just part of the broader story. What we’re really going to need to see from an economic perspective is this translate into meaningful productivity growth…” (09:17)
• Tariffs & Trade:
  • U.S.–China trade relations still cast a shadow over tech investment cycles—uncertainty means “one year visibility into overall prices” despite 7–10 year planning cycles (09:56).
• Strategic Shifts:
  • “Clear shift in investment strategy towards evidence-based investment rather than just spending on faith alone.” (10:44)

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3. Applied Materials / China Trade Tensions (11:06–11:50)

• Applied Materials Stock:
  • Hit by Chinese sales drop (Q4 sales from China down 8% YoY).
  • Ongoing worries about tariffs; market eager to rebound, but outlook uncertain.

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4. Thinking Machines Labs: $50B Funding Frenzy (14:12–16:52)

• News: Former OpenAI exec Mira Murati’s startup, Thinking Machines Lab, is in talks to raise funding at a $50B valuation, quadrupling its valuation since July.
• Product:
  • Released “Tinker,” a product for fine-tuning AI systems—unclear exactly how much traction it’s getting.
• Leadership:
  • Murati’s crisis experience at OpenAI—was briefly CEO during Altman’s ousting—has given credibility and helped attract top talent, including OpenAI co-founder John Schulman.
• Talent Exodus: Cluster of OpenAI alumni moved with Murati, signaling deep industry experience—a “tech talent migration” moment.
• Notable Quote:
  • Lillian Rincon: “There was a quite an exodus of talent from [OpenAI] to her company.” (16:26)

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5. Cursor Raises $2.3B—AI Coding Goes Enterprise (26:49–34:25)

• Cursor in the Spotlight:
  • Cursor, an AI coding platform, raises $2.3B at a $29.3B valuation.
• Usage:
  • Widely adopted by 6 of the “Magnificent Seven,” plus enterprise names like Starbucks, PwC, Hilton, Stripe, Adobe, Uber, and Shopify.
• Business Model:
  • Pricing based on seats and deep usage (akin to Databricks/Snowflake).
• Productivity Boost:
  • Study shows a 40% rise in productivity for engineers using Cursor (28:39).
• Talent War:
  • Company acquired Growth by Design, a recruiting agency, to bring hiring and talent in-house.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Michael Joel Kosa: “We are just at the very start of how we think building software and coding is going to change over the course of the next few years…” (33:05)
  • On AI displacement of jobs: “Definitely in the data that we have, we don’t see that. … That’s more engineers getting within the fold and growing seats within engineering accounts and growing engineering teams.” (34:02)
• Industry Tension:
  • Cursor is now viewed as indispensable; CEOs reach out frequently to discuss partnerships/acquisitions, but Kosa coy about M&A rumors.

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6. Founders Fund & Netic: Bringing AI to Main Street (37:48–42:49)

• Guest: Melissa Tokmak, CEO of Netic
• News: Netic raises $23M Series B; Founders Fund backs for a third time.
• Mission:
  • Focused on bringing “frontier AI” to “backbone” industries—HVAC, plumbing, electrical, construction—not just Silicon Valley.
  • Leverages partnerships with large enterprises and PE firms to integrate AI into deep, service-heavy workflows.
• Labor Shortage:
  • Echoes Nvidia’s Jensen Huang: massive skilled labor needs for datacenter and energy expansion.
• Market Difficulty:
  • Smallest contractors may not be ready for AI tools; thus Netic focuses on mid-market and larger enterprises.
• Notable Quote:
  • Melissa Tokmak: “For us, we want to back these industries … and help them make more revenue.” (38:20)
  • “These are the jobs that are not replaced for the next hundred years.” (42:22)

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7. Google’s Agentic AI for Shopping (43:33–47:38)

• Guest: Lillian Rincon, VP Consumer Shopping, Google
• Product News:
  • Using Gemini platform to advance “agentic AI” in consumer shopping—auto price tracking, auto-purchases, agent calling for stock checks.
• Example:
  • Agents can auto-buy once prices drop to a user’s target; agents call retailers to confirm availability.
• Challenges:
  • Need for agent-to-agent communication; system still early-stage.
• Notable Quotes:
  • Lillian Rincon: “We have been doing things like duplex … since 2017, 2018.” (45:53)
  • “Agentic technology is very nascent. … We’re really starting with what are those real problems that consumers have and always giving consumers control of the experience.” (44:51)

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8. China’s Singles Day & E-Commerce Optimism (19:58–25:24)

• Guest: Jacob Cook, CEO, WPIC
• Key Findings:
  • Singles Day sales up ~15% YoY, strongest since 2021—even after accounting for longer sales window.
  • Middle class growth solid, especially for upscale/foreign brands via Alibaba’s 88 VIP program (+30%).
  • AI tools made operations smoother, reduced ad spend—efficient customer acquisition, improved margins.
  • “AI made [the event] a lot more efficient … it kind of reduced the stress level on people’s operations.” (24:52)
• Takeaway:
  • Foreign brands expected to do well in 2026; Chinese consumption recovery appears robust.

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Notable Quotes

• Melissa Tokmak (on market correction):
  “Maybe this is time for a correction because this is a longer period than we’ve seen opposed to normal here…” (03:49)
• Natalie Gallagher (on AI investment payoff):
  “If we don’t see [AI investment] translate into meaningful productivity growth, then we risk a capital misallocation story.” (09:23)
• Lillian Rincon (on agentic AI shopping):
  “We’re really focusing on bringing agentic AI for consumer problems that really matter.” (43:33)
• Michael Joel Kosa (on AI job displacement):
  “It’s not AI that’s going to take your job, it’s somebody that uses AI that’s likely to take your job.” (33:37 paraphrased)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Market Volatility & Bubble Debate – 03:00–06:24
• Fed, Tech & Tariffs – 06:24–10:44
• AI Funding Surges (Thinking Machines Lab, Cursor) – 14:12–16:52 / 26:49–34:25
• China Singles Day & AI E-Commerce – 19:58–25:24
• Netic, Founders Fund & Main Street AI – 37:48–42:49
• Google’s Agentic AI in Retail – 43:33–47:38

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Tone & Style

Direct, high-paced, and accessible for an audience tracking tech business and financial moves. The hosts and guests balance enthusiasm for innovation with healthy skepticism about valuation and macroeconomic risks. The tone is factual, analytic, and occasionally irreverent (“Super Bowl” for Nvidia earnings, quips about market whiplash).

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Summary Takeaways

• AI funding and valuations are surging, with Thinking Machines and Cursor as prime examples, stirring both excitement and worries about a bubble.
• Investors and analysts are closely watching economic policy, especially Fed moves, which have outsized effects on tech sector optimism and spending.
• Real productivity, not just hype, will be the critical measure for whether today’s massive capital investment in AI is sustainable.
• China’s consumer tech and e-commerce sectors demonstrate strong AI-driven growth, despite larger macro tensions and regulatory barriers.
• Next-generation AI tools are rapidly moving from Silicon Valley “elites” toward broader enterprise application, with new platforms for both Main Street businesses and everyday consumer shopping.
• Talent wars, M&A rumors, and the push into physical-world industries all highlight how the AI race is redefining the tech and business landscape in real time.

Transcript

[Jacob Cook]

For every six Chinese people, there's a Ping an customer. We have accumulated a massive amount of the customer data, not just on the.

[Lillian Rincon]

Financial side, but end to end across.

[Jacob Cook]

Channels thanks to our AI advancements.

[Caroline Hyde]

This is the Technology Empowered Growth at Ping an podcast. In our latest episode, Ping an is utilizing technology to provide integrated and personalized 24.

[Lillian Rincon]

7 support for China's rapidly growing elderly population.

[Natalie Gallagher]

Now available on Spotify, Apple Podcast and Ping An's website.

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Bloomberg.

[Caroline Hyde]

Tech is live from coast to coast with Caroline Hyde in New York and Ed Ludlow in San Francisco.

[Felix Gillette]

This is Bloomberg Tech Coming up, tech stocks whipsaw as skepticism grows about the Fed being able to cut interest rates in December.

[Caroline Hyde]

Plus Thinking Machines, the startup founded by former OpenAI exec Miramorati, is in talks to raise funding at $50 billion valuation.

[Felix Gillette]

And we sit down with the CEO of Courser after it raised $2.3 billion in a funding valuing the company $29.3 billion.

[Caroline Hyde]

Carrie Massive private sector funding valuations, but let's get to the public sector because we are being whipsawed on the day that we are flat. If you look stretch, the NASDAQ is currently flat as a pancake as you might say over in the uk. But at the moment we are still seeing this questioning, questioning of valuations, questioning of sustainability of capex spend for the big players, questioning of what the Federal Reserve does next. So we dig into key assets that have seen volatility this week, but I'm looking at crypto has been in the eye of the storm. We're off by 7%. Let's call it on bitcoin. More broadly, we're seeing a lot of pullback in terms of the ETF buying. Another more than $800 million washed out in terms of outflows from those ETF products.

[Felix Gillette]

The mood music of the market has changed this Friday in the context of technology, best laid plans. I was going to tell you that Tesla and Nvidia was two of the biggest decliners actually, both now in positive territory. But over the course of the week, probably in video more than any other, has had volatility starting the week with a really big jump then declining on news flow. Actually in aggregate over the course of the week, it's basically flat. But then there's the super bowl next week with its earnings. Are we really talking about the Fed or are we really talking about an AI bubble and valuation? Probably both at this point.

[Caroline Hyde]

Yeah. And let's get to both of those key elements we want to dissect. Bloomberg TV markets correspondent Nora Melinda is here to really break down what felt like the start of the day of a risk off rally. The risk off is still there in crypto, but we're really getting whipsawed in the stock market.

[Melissa Tokmak]

We're seeing a lot of whipsawing in the market and a lot of conversation here about a potential air bubble. But when you think about valuations for the S&P 500 more broadly, we haven't even seen a 5% decline in the S&P 500 since April. So we do have folks over at Truist securities really talking about the fact that maybe this is time for a correction because this is a longer period than we've seen opposed to normal here, as we haven't seen a correction here for the broader market nor I'm going.

[Felix Gillette]

To let you and the audience in on a secret. I was going to take a vacation next week. Okay, check, check my calendar. Super Bowl Wednesday in video earnings. We got to talk about it. And one of the reasons it's great to have you on the program. Let's talk about it through the lens of the options market and what that's telling us about how they've looked at their calendars and how they're preparing for that print.

[Melissa Tokmak]

Well, a lot of activity happening here in the options market, as you mentioned. Nvidia, of course, being the super bowl event for the market next Wednesday post market. But we are seeing call options here on the Vix, which strikes around 60 here and set to expire right before the Nvidia earnings come out. So it really is showing you a bit of a glimpse into the options market and what that means as we think about volatility more broadly and what that means for the broader market.

[Caroline Hyde]

Someone's taking a bit of a holiday, at least until November 25th. That's Michael Burry. We understand, of course he's been winding down his sec, at least for Scion Asset Management, but he really sparked off this whole narrative about how we assess assets and ultimately the deterioration of them when it comes to GPUs and chips, right?

[Melissa Tokmak]

And he is talking about the fact that potentially a lot of these tech companies are using it to pad artificially their earnings here. So when we think about tech companies and the fact that we do see them flying high, we're seeing valuations super intense here. We're seeing them very high, just really bad. Begs the question more broadly as to whether or not these tech companies are running further beyond what fundamentals will actually allow.

[Felix Gillette]

Bloomberg's Nora Melinda with the tech market. Look, thank you so much. Let's keep the discussion going and break down the signals in the economy, how they trickle into business. Natalie Gallagher is principal economist and director at Board, an AI powered enterprise planning platform providing macro analysis and strategic guidance to global companies on business investment and economic policy. It's been a difficult week. We planned this morning's show with the narrative in the market right now that this is about the Fed and what they will or won't do in December. But actually over the course of the week, it wasn't about that at all. It was about valuations in an AI bubble or not an AI bubble. What's the real driving force right now? That's top of mind for the people you speak to.

[Natalie Gallagher]

You know, the debate has absolutely intensified when we talk about are we in an AI bubble? And there's really, there's two sides to the story. On one side, it doesn't appear to be as cut and dry as maybe a repeat of the dot com bubble. And that's because we have spending on real capital contracted services. We also see profitability, right? We see revenue growth when we look at enterprise planning, when we look at productivity tools, advertising. And third and foremost, we also see that the hyperscalers have some pretty resilient balance sheets to fall back on. Now there's absolutely risk, right, as we, as we approach the potential for an AI bubble. But it's not as cut and dry.

[Felix Gillette]

Let's try and link it to the Fed. You know, why does it matter if the Fed does or does not cut interest rates again in December, it matters.

[Natalie Gallagher]

Extensively, especially for a sector like tech because it's so rate sensitive. When we look at discounted cash flows, we look at M and A activity. You know, the Federal Reserve was already flying partially blind back in October. Very likely data is going to continue to be delayed or offset set as we get into December. And so that elevates the risk of a Federal Reserve misstep that's going to have an outsized impact on tech.

[Caroline Hyde]

What's having an outsized impact on the economy is AI investment. In many ways it's underlying why we've seen GDP growth. But I've been speaking to CEOs of late and underneath the hood they're saying this economy is weak. And actually we're seeing companies, Verizon this week, Amazon earlier, they are laying off tens of thousands of people in many ways to try and right side their cost base. Natalie, what are you actually hearing from the companies that lead right now?

[Natalie Gallagher]

What I'm actually hearing is that there's really two sides to the economy right now. Right. It's regularly called a K shaped economy. So you're absolutely right. We have A valuations that are really driving business investment and overall economic growth. R and D spending, for example, it was up 15% in Q2. That is the highest it's been since the dot com era. Now when we talk about what's also sort of channeling economic growth, those valuations, they're allowing higher income consumers to continue to drive growth in the economy. And that's why it's so important as we get into 2026, we really have to talk about what does the tech sector look like and what does I look like in the next 12 months?

[Caroline Hyde]

Now Natalie, I'm going to ask more of a complex one now and I want your take just more broadly on women thinking about the bubble. Michael Burry Many in the media have been talking about this depreciation of certain assets. In particular, we're trying to work out just how long an Nvidia GPU lasts. You has hit three years, four years, five years and the company is sort of doing accounting, wouldn't say tricks, but accounting changes to try and understand how long these assets really last. From your perspective, what is the asset that we should be analyzing? What is the underlying accounting we should be keeping an eye on?

[Natalie Gallagher]

You know, I would say even broader picture. What we really need to track is the investment that's been taking place.

[Lillian Rincon]

Right.

[Natalie Gallagher]

There's been a significant investment wave really across assets and this is just part of the broader story. What we're really going to need to see from an economic perspective is this translate into meaningful productivity growth. If we don't see that then we risk a capital misallocation story.

[Felix Gillette]

Just a couple of minutes time we're going to go talk about Applied Materials, the chip equipment maker. But that story illustrates that right now there is still an issue with tariffs and with China and with trade policy.

[Melissa Tokmak]

Yes.

[Felix Gillette]

How is that impacting the global economy right now?

[Natalie Gallagher]

Right now? You know we saw an immediate de escalation when we had the US China trade talks back in October. And so that removed an immediate headwind but it also introduced a structural issue. Right. We have an annual renegotiation period for example. Now what that does and in broader sense what tariffs do is they create a situation where companies don't have quite the forward guidance that they would like because we're talking about investment cycles that are seven to 10 years. Realistically we're getting about one year visibility into overall prices.

[Caroline Hyde]

We're about to get a visibility, a bit of visibility next week with our so called super bowl when it comes to Nvidia's fundamentals. But when you're giving analysis, when you're thinking about strategic advice, do you think the commitment to continue spending by big players is there and is there globally at the moment? Natalie?

[Natalie Gallagher]

I absolutely think it continues to be have a lot of weight behind it now. What I also see when I look at the numbers is that there's been sort of a clear shift in investment strategy towards evidence based investment rather than just spending on faith alone. You know we absolutely saw this with how investors responded to share prices following the earnings release back in October.

[Caroline Hyde]

It's been great having you come back to Natalie Gallagher. She's principal economist at board. We appreciate it. Look, Ed just teased us Applied Materials, let's go there. I'm just going to flip on from Tesla and Nvidia and show you what's happening in Applied Materials stock right now because we're off now only by 3, 10 of a percent. This company was sinking as much as 6% at the opening of trade. We were worried about the current quarter sales that are suffering largely because of a decline in Chinese business. In particular that is a significant about 30%. That's called 29% of total fourth quarter sales were from mainland China and they declined some 8% year on year. What do we think about this fiscal year? Look, we've just been talking about tariffs said and we know the outlook isn't great but it's interesting how much this is Stock wants to rebound. How much the market wants to rebound right now.

[Felix Gillette]

Yeah. Coming up, former executive Miramorati startup Thinking Machines Lab could soon rank among the world's most valuable private companies. Give you the latest in the funding talks next. This is Bloomberg Tech.

[Jacob Cook]

For every six Chinese people there's a.

[Michael Joel Kosa]

Ping on customer we have accumulated a.

[Jacob Cook]

Massive amount of the customer data, not.

[Lillian Rincon]

Just on the financial side, but end.

[Jacob Cook]

To end across channels thanks to our AI advancements.

[Caroline Hyde]

This is the Technology Empowered Growth at Ping an podcast. In our latest episode, Ping an is.

[Natalie Gallagher]

Utilizing technology to provide integrated and personalized 24.

[Caroline Hyde]

7 support for China's rapidly growing elderly population.

[Natalie Gallagher]

Now available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and Ping an website.

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[Felix Gillette]

Did my card go through? Oh no.

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[Caroline Hyde]

Thinking Machines Lab the AI startup founded by former OpenAI executive Miramorati. It could become one of the most valuable private companies less than a year after it launched. According to sources, the startup is in talks to raise funding at a $50 billion valuation, quadrupling its value from July. Let's get more From Bloomberg's Rachel Metz, who worked on this story, while the very own Ed Ludlow and Shereen Ghafari. Look, is there fundamental growth? This is vindicating this sort of 50 billion, or is it on the backing that she would. They're in such a leadership position over OpenAI.

[Lillian Rincon]

I mean it's a very young company and they have released a product. So it is possible that they're seeing a lot of traction that they haven't spoken about publicly yet for their product. It's called Tinker and it helps people and companies fine tune AI systems. But it's not, it's not clear how much growth they could actually have. Right. If they've been around for less than a year. So it's pretty tremendous so that they'd be in talks for this kind of money in valuation.

[Felix Gillette]

When we broke the story, people on social media kind of blew up and they were saying, oh, that would be $25 billion per blog post, because the company's only ever done two blog posts. But we did get the sense that this is Mira Morassi. Right. That she is out there talking to investors about this. It's her, she's the face of it. Explain to our audience who she is, why she's important and I guess the intellectual capital that she gives that place.

[Lillian Rincon]

Sure. So Marathi has been in the tech industry for a long time. She has been at Open Air, had been an OpenAI for a number of years and was an executive there. So she was at the company through before things sort of like exploded with the brief ousting and rehiring of Sam Altman. In fact, she was very, very briefly named CEO during that whole debacle. So she has a lot of experience dealing with crisis and also with a company that's grown very, very quickly in AI. And she has attracted a tremendous roster of talent at this company.

[Caroline Hyde]

Thinking, yeah, dig into that talent, Rachel, because she actually drew over with her an awful lot of ex OpenAI. Well, actual co founders came with her.

[Lillian Rincon]

Absolutely, yes. Quite a number of early employees. She has co founder, one of the co founding employees over there, John Schulman with her. And also there are people advising the company that used to work at OpenAI. So it's a very deep bench of experience from that company, but also from, from other companies as well. But OpenAI in particular, there was a quite an exodus of talent from that company to her company.

[Felix Gillette]

And again the reason this is extraordinary, it was only February that they kind of came into existence publicly. July raised at a $12 billion valuation. Now, November talks for $50 billion valuation, maybe more. Bloomberg's Rachel match, thank you very much. Turning to media, Paramount, Netflix and Comcast are eyeing potential bids for Warner Brothers Discovery. Meanwhile, the company has amended CEO David Zaslav's contract to secure his pay in the event of a sale. For more, let's bring in Bloomberg's Felix Gillette, who joins us now. There's a deadline to this, the bid part, and so there's some mechanics to why Warner Brothers Discovery took this step.

[Michael Joel Kosa]

Yeah, I mean, now we know the deadline for the first bids is a week from yesterday, November 20th. So that's coming up fast. And I think this is another signal that, you know, big transaction potentially could be coming down the pipeline sooner rather than later. You know, they change that compensation package to account for all these different possibilities. You know, whether it's the sale of the whole company, whether it's a partial sale or potentially if there is no sale and the company goes through with its plans, original planned spin off of the, you know, the cable networks from the studio and streaming business next year.

[Caroline Hyde]

It's interesting. Now, that's a reverse spin off. Initially it was going to be Warner Brothers. It was spun off the, the actual bit of movies and the magic and the streaming and cables are going to be left, left with Discovery Global. And now it's the other way around. But whatever the case, Dennis Zaslov saying, look, I'm committed until 2030 unless he spent, he, you know, has to leave because the company is bought. From your perspective, you're hearing more that the insiders would like it as a whole sold or would they like it sold for parts and to different players?

[Michael Joel Kosa]

Depends on who the bidder is. I mean, Paramount, Skydance clearly wants the whole thing. They're happy to take the cable network networks that would fit in with their portfolio and give them additional scale. But if you're talking about Netflix, they have no interest in the cable networks. They just want, you know, the studios business, the library, the HBO Max side of things. Comcast you could see maybe going either way. But really they want the studio, the library in terms of scale, getting their streaming business peacock. I think they're worried that if they don't do a big transaction like this, this, you know, it's going to be very difficult to keep up with Netflix and Amazon in the years ahead.

[Felix Gillette]

Philos, you've already answered this, but let's leave our audience with the what we know. So explain just very quickly again, the deadline and where we think these bids stand.

[Michael Joel Kosa]

Yeah, the deadline for the first bids is a week from yesterday, Thursday, November 20th. We think these three companies are going to submit bids. And you know, the Warner Brothers discovery is saying that they're hoping to get this decided one way or the other by the end of the year. So we at least now have a very concrete timeline for how they're going to deal with these bids. They've been out there meeting with the bidders, you know, presenting their financials, going through the library and plans. So this is happening quick now.

[Caroline Hyde]

Seemingly a $58 billion offer from Paramount Skydance is not enough. Bloomberg's Felix Gillette, we appreciate you breaking it down. Chinese e commerce platforms. They saw strong sales during the country's month long shopping event Singles Day. Now an integration emerged as a major growth driver of that. Let's speak with Jacob Cook. He's co founder and CEO of wpic. It's marketing and technologies which helps global brands expand their reach in Asia. And boy, have we seen the reach of circumstances Singles day into weeks, into months. But are the numbers actually good when you take into, well, the idea that it is longer than on previous times?

[Jacob Cook]

Yeah, we did a like, for like comparison. We think it's about 14.8% up over last year, which is actually much better than expected. We think this is the strongest one since 2021 and that's, they ran a week earlier and a couple of days later. But even taking that into account, we're pretty optimistic at the Chinese consumer right now.

[Caroline Hyde]

Okay, where is the Chinese consumer right now?

[Jacob Cook]

Well, middle class growth was pretty good. You know, Alibaba is now reporting numbers especially with their 88 VIP program. That, that, that's also really strong and that's focused on a more upscale consumer. They're reporting 30% up in that particular category. So that's pretty good. Middle class consumers are what people have been worried about over the last couple of years. There's been pressure in employment so that really didn't play any consequences here for this. 11 Great. You know, we're seeing close to 15% growth year over year, which is already the largest shopping festival. So these numbers are pretty optimistic.

[Felix Gillette]

Jacob, are we in a position where we can look at all of the Chinese technology companies that participate in this and say this specific company one, they are ahead. Alibaba is the one I'm thinking about most because in early October the shares hit I think the highest level since 2021. But there's no sort of tangible evidence that any one company, at least from what I can see on the Bloomberg terminal, did any Better or I made any more impact than any other in this period.

[Jacob Cook]

Yeah, it's interesting. I think for sure the destination platforms, as opposed to the social commerce platforms did better here. So let's. JD That's Alibaba. But they're definitely, we think, much stronger growth than the Douyin or Rednote platforms.

[Felix Gillette]

Right.

[Jacob Cook]

But AI really did. I mean, the business advisor that Alibaba released is quite effective. You know, it made things a lot more efficient despite that growth of 14.8% that we think they came in at. You know, ad spend growth was much lower than that, which means that acquisition costs have come down and Alibaba is really making it more efficient to find your customers. And I think what's going to happen as a result of that is we're going to see a lot more ad shift maybe away from the Douin and tech talks next year into Alibaba platform, I think, which is going to further drive that growth.

[Felix Gillette]

Jacob, what did you learn about the health of the Chinese economy?

[Jacob Cook]

You know, this came in better than expected for us too as well. You know, so we see really solid growth and we've seen this, what we looked at, we saw labor pressure also picking up in terms of salaries and the amount of household income recently. So this wasn't totally unexpected. But I think if there was any apprehension about the stability of that middle class consumption consumer, upper class consumer, I think that should be over. I think we're heading into a really good 2026 in terms of the story about the Chinese consumption.

[Caroline Hyde]

I mean, the government's been there to prop it up. There's been subsidies. So many ways people would say that they should be able to buy at this moment. What is it that they buy in terms of domestic brands versus well, the companies that you advised who are trying to access Asia at this moment?

[Jacob Cook]

Yeah, I think it's all over the place. I mean, when we look at again when I was talking about the 88 VIP and we look at that middle and upper class consumer, we would see a lot more of the imported products, products consumed by that demographic. So, so that's what's driving a lot of that growth right now. But you know, I think that a lot of the local brands especially, you know, mainly tick tock and do yen focused, a little bit more price conscious. But I think what happened again, you know, Alibaba's business advisor, you know, we expected, you know, in terms of the price recommendations to drive pricing down. We thought that was what it was going to do. But we were actually pleasantly surprised. In some cases it had actually recommended that that prices come up which has been good for margins. So I think all of those factors put into place, I think foreign brands are, are going to be a little bit more focused on that market for next year seeing a little bit more margin growth and top line revenue growth.

[Caroline Hyde]

Stephen Engle, our reporter over in Asia did a beautiful wrap up of like the ways in which they are targeting using E commerce, social media and the influence of influencers. But how are you seeing a AI and some of the ways in which technology are helping some of the brands that you represent?

[Jacob Cook]

Well, I think just from, from being on the ground this year was very efficient. I mean, you know, it did run for a month. Sales were spread out different categories which made it really great to operate. I mean if we go back to 10 years ago is kind of bring your toothbrush and pillow to work because you were there 24 hours around the clock. This year the preparations, the AI, just the assistance in general and efficiency opportunities really kind of made it great for operators and it kind of reduced the stress level on, on people's operations. So that was great and we expect that to continue on into next year.

[Felix Gillette]

Jacob Cook, CEO of WPIC Marketing Technologies, you always on the ground and then somewhere stunning like Vancouver. How do you do that? It's great to have you back on the show.

[Caroline Hyde]

Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. Let's take a check on these markets because we're all over the place today. Look, we started much in the red. We had anxiety building once again tech valuations, what the Federal Reserve might be able to do in December, what economic data is going to tell us. And then the rebound kicked off. We're up 410 of a percent as video and some of the key other players particularly Micron, Microsoft, Broadcom all turn into the green. We're now up 4. 10 of a percent. But on the week was still under some pressure. Bitcoin still hunter some pressure by 6.6% over the course of the week. So we really are seeing that that asset classes in the line of fire even as the NASDAQ bounces on this day and helps draw it, draw it to a weekly gains. The bitcoin area does not. This therefore means that certain stocks that are particular proxies of crypto are having a terrible time of it strategy off by 15%. Look it was down as much as 19% over the course of the five days. In fact its overall valuation in the market cap of the company is now somewhat below that of its overall bitcoin holdings. Right now, so far, has the sell off gone. We understand, according to other reporting, that Michael Saylor still buying Bitcoin. At this particular moment though, there's a.

[Felix Gillette]

Lot going on in private markets this week. The name Cursor has been on the tip of the tongue of big names across tech, including Satya Nadella and Jensen Huang. And it's Vibe coding. Scott Software has been on the tips of the fingers of employees at the likes of Nvidia, Salesforce and PwC. Now the company has roughly tripled its valuation in just a few months, raising $2.3 billion at a $29.3 billion valuation. Michael Joel Kosa, CEO, joins us now in San Francisco. Let's get the rounds out of the way because there is an awful lot to discuss about what Cursor is doing and how has it been being used. But my goodness, you've raised quite a lot of money quite quickly from the last time you raised money at a much higher valuation. Why and what does it mean to you?

[Michael Joel Kosa]

Well, first, thank you for having me. We raised this money to invest deeply in research and we are this company that's something in between a product company and then also an AI and models company. And in parts, it's an important product lever for us to do our own investment in product specific models. And that's something we've been doing for many years. This lets us do that in a bigger way.

[Felix Gillette]

It's AI coding. And you know, I was in Washington D.C. for GTC DC Jensen one goes on stage and he made a very pointed remark that software, generally speaking, is now worth paying for. And he used Cursor as the case study. Would you actually talk us through the case study in Video is a big company. It has many of its own engineers. How are they using Cursor, what are they using it for and how are you charging them for it?

[Michael Joel Kosa]

Well, we've been really happy to see not just the accelerating demand in our market, but also the success in our deployments with customers. There was actually a study that came out recently that showed that customers, after they switch to our agent, get 40%.

[Felix Gillette]

More done and productivity reference for the engineer themselves. The workload that they're trying to get through.

[Michael Joel Kosa]

Yes, okay. It's looking at pull requests, merged and metrics like that. But folks are seeing lots of success out in the field. And so to Jensen's comment, the ROI of buying the tool is just has. Has been so high for many of our customers, which makes us really happy. And on the pricing front, there's two components One is a seat component where we look at usage, we look at how many people are using Cursor every month within an account and then pricing matches that. And then if folks are using the product in a really, really deep way, there's also a usage component similar to a databricks or a snowflake.

[Caroline Hyde]

What's interesting is Vibe coding was all the lexicon in the past few months and many people felt that it was individuals who paying the $20 for cursor and really doing it and really feeling the power of understanding and being able to prompt. How about now what you call AI coding, is this more of an enterprise play? Is it more of a sit at home and play it?

[Michael Joel Kosa]

Being a developer play, we serve professional development teams and in particular professional engineers are our icp. And so when we use the term AI coding, it's to underline that we care. You know, there are some folks that experiment with the tool for prototypes, but the core use case, the reason the vast majority of customers are using Cursor is to get real work done in their real jobs. And that means shipping carefully in professional code bases at the highest degree of quality.

[Caroline Hyde]

We were just talking about all the CEOs of the Magnificent Seven and others who have been using Cursor. Been talking about Cursor. They must have been calling Cassette. Michael, how many inbounds are you getting on companies wanting to buy you at this moment?

[Michael Joel Kosa]

We've been really excited to see demand both across the max. 7, 6 out of 7 of the mag, 7 actually our customers and we're really happy about that. But then also staples of the real economy like Starbucks and PwC and Hilton and Budweiser and then many digital natives like Stripe, Adobe, Uber, Nvidia, Shopify and others like that.

[Caroline Hyde]

I'm going to jump in there and.

[Felix Gillette]

Just quickly because go for it, please. Yeah, you're.

[Caroline Hyde]

You're not answering exactly my question. Has anyone been trying to buy you?

[Michael Joel Kosa]

I can't talk about things like that here.

[Felix Gillette]

You can talk about them here. Bloomberg Tech is the right place for it. What you've been doing is shopping yourself. Find that very interesting. You used M and A to address your own talent requirements. Growth by Design. What was behind that move and what was problem you were trying to solve for in doing that?

[Michael Joel Kosa]

Growth by Design was a talent agency that we had worked with for a long time and the folks that were running that business we got to know over many months working with them on building the team. They're respected recruiting leaders in the industry and we started talking with them A few months ago about whether they would come in house and join us to lead talent for us. And this is a strategy that we've taken kind of across the board, whether it be in R and D, go to market gna, we look for the best people in our industry and sometimes conveniently or inconveniently, they are running their own companies.

[Caroline Hyde]

What's so interesting is how fierce the talent fight has been in many ways. Michael, talk to us about where you are getting your talent from, how you're going to see that growth by design is going to bring on even more of the best people to work and build your business.

[Michael Joel Kosa]

Still, largely, folks that join us, we reach out to, and that's through knowing past colleagues of theirs and we invite them to interview. But more and more we're scaling that and trying to diversify how we find folks. And then we have a deep interview process where, for instance, on the engineering side of things, we invite folks in for two whole days to spend two days with us going end to end on a project project. And that's both given them lots of information on us as a company. That also gives us really great signal about whether they're going to be a fit when they join.

[Felix Gillette]

You've grown incredibly quickly and you've joined us on this program to explain how cursor is being used in the real world and generating real revenues. But if you were to reflect honestly on what's still difficult for you and cursor and what some of the, I guess, barriers or headwinds are to your industry or you specifically, what are they? You know, what is it that you need to see change right now?

[Michael Joel Kosa]

Well, we have a long product journey left. We are just at the very start of how we think building software and coding is going to change over the course of the next few years. And I think it can be really, really easy for folks who are removed from writing code all day to stay in touch with just how far away we are from all of software changing. And despite all of the change over the past few years, engineers, there's still so much further to go. And so in particular, we're very focused on making cursor not just more productive for individual engineers, but now helping teams broadly and helping across the software development lifecycle.

[Felix Gillette]

Those that we regard as leaders of industry have talked about the AI displacement of jobs or not displacement of jobs. And actually, as it relates to cursor, you know, many take the view that it's not AI that's going to take your job, it's somebody that uses AI that's likely to take your job just through the lens of what Cursor sees through his customers. And internally, where do you sit on that debate?

[Michael Joel Kosa]

Michael Definitely in the data that we have, we don't see that. We see the the fold of who's participating in the software development lifecycle expanding and that's more engineers getting within the fold and growing seats within engineering accounts and growing engineering teams. But that's also folks in support or in design helping to do small changes within a production code base.

[Felix Gillette]

To Michael true cost to see. I thank you very much. Coming back here on Blue tech and sf, Carrie, what you got?

[Caroline Hyde]

Fascinating conversation, but now it's time for talking tech ed and first up, Jeff Bezos is Blue Origin nails a major milestone. Its next Glenn New Glenn rocket booster safely landed on a platform in the Atlantic after launching a pair of small satellites satellites on its way to study Mars. Now that makes Blue Origin only the second company after Elon Musk's Space X to successfully recover a booster fittingly named Never tell me the Odds. Plus Emirates is reportedly partnering with Space X is Starlink to bring faster in flight WI fi to its fleet. Now that's according to sources. The deal could be announced at the Dubai Air show on Monday, so the service will still need government approval before it can be done deployed. And in a rare split between a chip maker and its biggest customers, Amazon is joining Microsoft in backing legislation that could restrict Nvidia's chip exports to China. So according to the Wall Street Journal, the proposal would require chip makers to meet U.S. demand before shipping to countries under arms embargoes at okay, coming up.

[Felix Gillette]

Founders Fund is backing startup netting aiming to supply AI to small businesses. And we mean small businesses. We're going to speak with the CEO Melissa. Talk about next. This is Bloomberg Tech.

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[Felix Gillette]

Did my card go through? Oh no.

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[Caroline Hyde]

There we go.

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[Jacob Cook]

So have you heard the story about the prescription plan with savings automatically built in? It's where a family of any size can feel confident the cost of their medication won't hold them back. Go to CMK Co Stories to learn how CBS Caremark helps members save just by being members. That's CMK Co Stories.

[Caroline Hyde]

In a show of continued confidence, Founders Fund is backing Netic for the third time in a row. The kind of support and sustained support that the firm has previously shown to the likes of cognition AI or Andrew. Now Natick has raised $23 million in a series B funding round aiming to equip businesses and contractors with advanced AI tools. Talk Max here. Netics CEO Melissa, this is about Main Street. This is about H Vac, this is about contractors coming in, repairing. Why target that part of the market?

[Melissa Tokmak]

Well, thank you for having me, Caroline. I think for us it's very important that we're bringing frontier AI to the industries that are the backbone of American economy. I think a lot of startups are existing in Silicon Valley that backs maybe developers. But for us, we want to back these industries and large companies in these industries and H Vac, plumbing, electric, solar, consumer health and bring the frontier AI for them and help them make more revenue.

[Caroline Hyde]

Why doesn't some of the enterprise offerings thus far be fit for purpose for these small and medium sized enterprises?

[Melissa Tokmak]

Yeah, I think these workflows are really deep. So I think Ed was telling me actually just yesterday about adding heat pump to his own home.

[Michael Joel Kosa]

That's.

[Felix Gillette]

Yeah, did add a heat pump to my home.

[Melissa Tokmak]

Yeah, hopefully it's working really well.

[Felix Gillette]

It works, works. But it was very difficult process. It was delayed. You answer the question. But yes.

[Melissa Tokmak]

Yeah, it's exactly like Ed's experience. Right. Trying to reach out to a company that might help you and help you immediately because you have that need now. So what we help with these industries with they they all actually face seasonality and volatility and have to have deep workflows with their customers like ad. So the other solution solutions that might give you point solutions or easy workflows will not work with these essential services that are serving millions of consumers out there in America.

[Felix Gillette]

My small house in Northern California is one end of the scale. The other is datacenter build out. And Jensen Wong was speaking about this at GTC in dc. I'm going to read you some of his quote but he in order for us to win that the market, we need mechanical engineers, electric electrical engineers, plumbers, construction skill, craft labor. We need mountains of them. We need mountains of them and that's going to create lots of jobs and it's going to be fantastic for the United States. But we need a lot more. He seems to be suggesting that that skilled labor that you want to work with, with contractors isn't there. Is that your experience?

[Melissa Tokmak]

There's definitely labor shortage in these markets. We need more people to go in and get trained in these industries for our country. And it's not just for data centers. It's actually as we have access to more tools, the energy need is increasing from consumers and businesses, data centers across the board. And we're going to need this labor to be able to power it all.

[Caroline Hyde]

Talk to us about total addressable market here, Melissa, because it is such an obvious play to sort of make sure that Main street is equipped here. But why haven't we more tackled it? What are you seeing in terms of the need?

[Melissa Tokmak]

I think when you're building a business in this area, you the mission is the most important thing. All of us at Natick truly care about bringing AI to the backbone of American economy and to the physical world. I think this is maybe not the sexiest area that the Silicon Valley companies are building in one. It's very difficult. You have to get integrated with, with companies very closely. We partner with large private equity firms and large enterprises in these industries to really learn their work.

[Felix Gillette]

So I think that's the root of Caroline's question though, right? If I said small businesses earlier, actually you work with some bigger businesses as well. But you know, the basic question is can a contractor or a small firm of engineers, plumbers, whatever, afford to pay for your software? That's what it comes down to.

[Caroline Hyde]

Yeah.

[Melissa Tokmak]

I think the question is, is about does that contract contractor, a solo contractor or maybe a few people, do they Need AI today. Right. I think in there in that type of small business level, if anything capacity and labor being able to go take on more jobs is the more problem than maybe investing the small capital you have to AI tools. This is why we actually started with more mid market and large enterprises because they're at a point that they can invest ask for more more growth with AI tools versus not just real quick.

[Felix Gillette]

If you and Jensen Huang are so much on the same page, have you actually met with him and talked about this?

[Melissa Tokmak]

I did not but I got to listen to him in D.C. when he was talking for the executive order and I was front row and love that he talked about this type of jobs because I think we need to encourage the young people to go into skilled labor a lot more more as AI does displace job in more computer backed, maybe small menial task areas. These are the jobs that are not replaced for the next hundred years.

[Felix Gillette]

Melissa Tokmak Netic CEO Great to have you on Bloomberg Tech. Thank you. Air is reshaping holiday retail Google. Google is testing new AI tools through its Gemini platform aimed at making search and checkout more seamless. It's part of a broader push to bring agentic AI into everyday shopping. Here with more is Lillian Rincon, Google VP of Consumer Shopping product. This is interesting because we're going from the domain of agentic AI and we're trying to take it to how consumers already use search marry them in the context of retail scale. How does it work and why is it important?

[Lillian Rincon]

Yeah, so agent tech tech is relatively new and we're really focusing on bringing agent to gi for consumer problems that really matter to consumers. And so for example, taking the tedious parts of shopping and having agent, okay, which is AI that does things on behalf of the user. So for example, with price tracking, you know, we have the scenario of you see a product, maybe the price is too high, you can track the price and we will auto buy the product for you. On the other hand, for example, let's say you, you have a particular product. Let's say Le Booboo is one of the products of the season and you want to find it near you. It will actually make all the calling for you for nearby businesses and tell you whether it's in stock.

[Felix Gillette]

Do you have any evidence or data that this technology change results in an actual purchase or more that increases the likelihood that the consumer goes through with it?

[Lillian Rincon]

I mean anecdotally we do see that consumers are really loving this in the sense that both consumers and merchants actually Especially for the agent calling, because it's allowing consumers to have more confidence, let's say that the product is actually in store.

[Caroline Hyde]

There are some that perhaps don't want others agents coming and making purchases. They want that direct relationship. We've seen reports of Amazon doing a cease and desist on perplexity because of payments but being made. How do you think you'll navigate the ecosystem in that way, Lillian?

[Lillian Rincon]

Yeah, it's a great question. You know, I think all of this agentic technology is very nascent. And again at Google, we're really starting with what are those real problems that consumers have? And always giving consumers control of the experience. So in the agent checkout, for example, as I mentioned, you know, we're starting with a real user need, right, which is that a lot of, a lot of times people will see a product maybe gets too expensive. We let you track the price of the product, we alert you when the product has reached that price and then you can auto buy, essentially have Google buy that product for you on your behalf. And in this case for the merchant, it's good in the sense that, you know, maybe they would have lost that customer otherwise. Right. Maybe they weren't ready to buy it at that price. And so we think this is good for merchants and also for consumers on the back end.

[Caroline Hyde]

Lillian, we've got a beautifully geeky audience. What is it that you've managed to do in the last few months, years that has just allowed for this, that is now seeing the agents able to run. Run free and make purchases on one's behalf safely?

[Lillian Rincon]

Yeah, I think, again, so a lot of this is new. I will say that, you know, on the agent calling piece, we have been doing things like duplex, which you may or may not be familiar with, which is where we're using AI to essentially call a business on your behalf for some years, actually, you know, since 2017, 2018, I think the restaurants.

[Caroline Hyde]

You've been doing it for me for a long time.

[Lillian Rincon]

Yeah, exactly. On the calling piece, I think we've been doing this for a long time and we're really finding real user needs, you know, for, for tedious parts of shopping where we think it can help. On the agent calling piece, also tracking the price is something that we've done over some time. This year. We've actually gotten down to the variant level. So for example, if you see a shoe that you like, it really matters the size and the color of the shoe. And so now we're able to identically really track that price. And, and then the Buying really what we're doing there is we are instantiating a browser and really adding a product to the card on the merchant side and letting you buy it.

[Felix Gillette]

The question is always what happens next and how is this going to go at the enterprise scale. The issue with agentic AI is that you need many agents to be able to communicate with one another. In fact, in the consumer. Think about an airline app for example, and they maybe use a different software platform to book the flight originally. Are you encountering those problems, you know, Gemini and what's outside of Google's control?

[Lillian Rincon]

You know, I would say that it's still nascent. So today for example, a lot of our merchants and the way that they show up is actually through relationships that we've developed over the years. So we have something called, called the shopping graph which is, you know, 50 billion product listings of all these merchants around the world. But as you say over time, you know, potentially you'll imagine a world where merchant has an agent and we will be interacting between the Gemini agent and that agent as well. Yeah.

[Caroline Hyde]

Lillian Rank on of Google. Fascinating. As we head towards holidays, taking a little bit of the to do list off our plate. Thank you for stopping by. Meanwhile, that does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech. And what a week it's been. A what a week we've got coming.

[Felix Gillette]

It's the super bowl and video earnings next week. It's been a weird Friday where markets kind of were quite severely down and now we're kind of up a little bit and I think everyone's just ready for the weekend. Don't forget to check out the podcast. It's a great thing to do on a weekend. You can find it on the terminal as well as online on Apple, Spotify and Iheart. From San Francisco and New York City, this is Bloomberg Tech. Hey, Ryan Reynolds here wishing you a very happy half off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half price, not half the service. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means a half day.

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To $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only.

[Melissa Tokmak]

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