Brad Ericsson (3:16)

Yeah, I think obviously the reacceleration to 20% on us in Q3 was like the headline critical metric they had to do. They did it. And so that, that really got the stock going. And then I think as you think about going forward, they're getting this capacity deployed faster than we would have thought maybe a quarter ago. And they gave some nice detail around some of the power, you know, the gigawatts that they've been able to deploy and some forward commentary there. And it's, and it just comes down to kind of simple math. They're not saying they're going to accelerate necessarily on aws, but if you do the math, it implies that they probably will. And that means there's probably a lot of upside to street numbers. And so that was the point we were making in our Note.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (4:03)

I mean, 3 gigawatts is massive. When you think about each gigawatt, potentially up to a million homes. That's how much they put on in the last 12 months. What are you making of the vertical integration here as well? The fact that they're saying that their Trainium chips are already a multibillion dollar company. How much does that build to future revenues?

Brad Ericsson (4:21)

Yeah, you know, training them to go with your second part first. Training too, is, is largely being used for Anthropic, which is kind of the, the major enterprise player in the generative AI space. They're going to continue to grow a lot. They're going to double the number of chips at the, at the, at the Rainier site by the end of the year. So it's, it's, you know, that is going to continue to scale up and drive a ton of revenue growth and it is material to next year. And this is $130 billion business. So it gives you a sense in terms of just, you know, taking vertically integrating it's massively important. Right. The power grid is not set up for these data centers and they have massive needs, massive cooling needs, massive water needs. And so it has and will always likely continue to make sense for these guys to, to make sure they can do that on their own or at least become less tied to third parties. So I think it's the right, the right thing to do.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (5:20)

And he just has time and time again been like, supply is the issue here, not demand. Brad what's interesting is that generative AI gets rippled through the entire business. We're looking, Rufus, of course, which is helping us decide what we're going to be buying on Amazon. If we needed any more help on that, that's saying they could add another $10 billion. It's interesting to then dovetail that with what came at the beginning of the week. Look, corporate jobs are going at Amazon and many ways, Andy Jassy steered us to that four months ago. Is that inevitable when they're looking to bring generative AI as a way to catalyze the business?

Brad Ericsson (5:54)

Yeah, I mean, kind of two parts of that. Right. Rufus is really intended to sort of, you know, add a, we'll call it a tailwind to your shopping experience in your conversions, so literally get you to buy more stuff. So that's that part of it. The headcount thing is, is tricky because you're right, like initially you kind of follow the fact pattern. And then what we know of some other companies and the efficiencies they're getting, clearly generative AI is it is very likely that it is contributing to job losses right now. And some companies are overtly saying it. Last night, you know, Andy Jassy, the CEO, said that largely it was kind of a function of over hiring middle management, you know, trying to sort of flatten the organization a little bit more. So not related to generative AI, but I think by all intent and purposes you have to think that trend is going to continue. And yeah, it's, it's a little bit concerning from a deflationary standpoint, I would say. But, you know, that's what we know so far.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (6:58)

Ericsson of RBC Capital Markets really appreciate your analysis this morning. Thank you very much indeed. Happy Halloween. Meanwhile, let's talk about Apple, which is looking a little uglier than it did earlier in terms of stock price. But earnings came out yesterday and the iPhone maker said that sales rose nearly 8% in its fiscal fourth quarter, predicted a jump in holiday sales. Shares actually did do very well after market, but they've Come back down this morning. Let's discuss the results and what the share reaction is currently doing. Carolina Melanese, President Principal analyst over at Creative Strategies. You're really the person we turn to when you think about how they're innovating, where they're pushing forward. Were you surprised by the overall sales growth when many thought that iPhone 17 wasn't gonna be the catalyst that we'd hoped for?

Carolina Milanesi (Creative Strategies Analyst) (7:43)

I wasn't. And the reason is because as I talked to you in the past, hardware refresh when the actual hardware looks different always drive upgrades. People still want to rely on the device that is in their pocket 24. 7 but make it look different. And this year we got that with the air which is not the main seller for Apple but it doesn't matter is getting people back in the stores to see the rest of the portfolio. It was really interesting yesterday that Cook mentioned that supply issues on the 16 model, not just on the 17th and that is a good reminder that a new model every September brings people back in stores and upgrade to previous models as well. Is not just the latest. Is the portfolio with maybe some price adjustment and some carrier promotions that drive that upgrade.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (8:45)

Fewer upgrades going on in China though. What did you make of the pullback, the surprising pullback in that particular region?

Carolina Milanesi (Creative Strategies Analyst) (8:53)

I think part of it is the economic situation in China. We have seen kind of hot and cold from a consumer perspective. The timing was later in the quarter so it takes a little bit longer from a supply chain perspective. We also need to remember the supply chain has moved away from China so there is some adjustment to make as well because of of the US and production shifting to to India. But the most important thing and is what Tim Cook said which is signals towards the end of the quarter was positive. People were going back into the stores. But the big quarter for China is always Q1 that is Chinese New Year. By then there's hope that the supply constraint that Apple has had, especially in the higher models, which is usually where China gravitates towards, will be resolved. And that's where the big quarter should come in. And if it doesn't, that's when I'm going to start worrying. But for now I'm not worried and.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (9:56)

I digest the E Sim situation as well. I spy a Cowboy Carter memorabilia behind you. I love that tour too. Let's just talk about the services side. The music side is part of that, but services really is what drove the strength at the moment. Can that be reliable going forward? When we think about the regulatory pressure on the app store, for example.

Carolina Milanesi (Creative Strategies Analyst) (10:15)

I think it can because more and more is really content and is also advertising. We've seen Apple close the deal with F1 so they'll start streaming F1 which is becoming more and more popular in the US and across the globe with a demographic that Apple is really really keen in keeping and growing, which is Gen Zers and younger Millennials. So I think that that is real. The opportunity for Apple is side is the engagement side and that also over time will come into play with Apple Vision Pro.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (10:54)

I mean very briefly, what about the AI side?

Carolina Milanesi (Creative Strategies Analyst) (10:57)

Well, we have been promised an improved theory coming in 2026 and as we discussed before, Apple has some time to figure this out. I think that most of us have figured out what I can do for us in a productivity setting, but not yet on a personal way and I think that's where Siri is going to play the most.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (11:20)

Carolina Melanec Always great catching up with the President Principal Analyst at Creative Strategies. Happy Weekend. Meanwhile, coming up the parade of earnings it continues going to be talking to Twilio CEO about their results next. This is Bloomberg Tech.

Brad Ericsson (11:35)

For every six Chinese people there's a ping on customer we have accumulated a.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (11:40)

Massive amount of the customer data, not just on the financial side but end.

Brad Ericsson (11:43)

To end and across channels thanks to our AI advancements.

Podcast Narrator / Bloomberg Tech Announcer (11:47)

This is the Technology Empowered Growth at Ping an podcast.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (11:50)

In our latest episode, Ping an is.

Podcast Narrator / Bloomberg Tech Announcer (11:52)

Utilizing technology to provide integrated and personalized 24. 7 support for China's rapidly growing elderly population. Now available on Spotify, Apple podcast and Ping AD's website.

Jeff Lawson (Twilio CEO) (12:04)

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Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (13:04)

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Jeff Lawson (Twilio CEO) (13:56)

Well, we had a great quarter and I would say across the board voice AI was certainly a contributor, but every single one of our products contributed. This time I'd say messaging and voice in particular were particularly strong. In addition to that, across channels, across GEOs, across customer segments, it was just a really good quarter for us and fortunately we were able to beat on revenue, profit, cash flow as well as raise for the year. So we're pretty excited about the results.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (14:22)

You go into the detail of how the 10 largest voice AI startup customers are increasing by 10x. Where particularly are they finding the rewards? Because many have questioned really the sort of pilots, whether they're working or not. Where have yours been working?

Jeff Lawson (Twilio CEO) (14:37)

I think you've got two ends of the spectrum. So on the one hand you've got voice AI startups and these are companies that want to get going super quickly, right? So we're an extremely well known brand. They come to us first in most cases and so we're really lucky to be able to count on their business just to get their workloads out in the world. On the other hand though, you've also got enterprises enterprises. They definitely see an opportunity to take out costs but as well as enhance their revenue experience. And so I think more durably you're seeing enterprise customers begin to adopt these tools. It's probably happening at a slower rate than it is with the voice AI startups, but all the same it's really exciting.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (15:18)

I just think about some of your key customers Lyft, Reddit, Dell, Resi, Uber, Shopify, some of the biggest brands out there KeyBank analysts in particular signaling that this is just a wave that they think is just beginning to build. How much larger do you think this has become? How much am I just going to be talking in a customer relations perspective via voice?

Jeff Lawson (Twilio CEO) (15:37)

I think it's going to become pretty commonplace. I mean, you're already starting to see it. I'm sure you've experienced it a handful of times in your interactions. I think what's key about being able to deliver a good experience is being able to have contextual data underneath it all. If you have contextual data, which is a big part of our story in communications plus contextual data plus AI. But that data is what really allows the customer's problem to get solved. Right. You don't want just cool tech. You want problems to get solved. You want to be able to create richer and richer experiences that actually create customer engagement. And I think that's where the real unlock is.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (16:12)

The real unlock being about AI agents for many, and I know you've actually been making some acquisitions in that space. You think about Stitch, the identity platform within AI agents. Is M and A going to be a real use case here for you to bolt on to get the talent that you need to get the tech that you need?

Jeff Lawson (Twilio CEO) (16:28)

I think we have optionality. I mean, we're generating so much cash that we've been buying back a lot of our own stock. We also just dipped our toe, as you pointed out, into M and A. Stitch was a great acquisition from our perspective. A small tech and talent tuck in less than $100 million in purchase price. And I think it's exactly the right kind of asset that allows us to accelerate our roadmap with that one in particular. They're very developer focused, which is very much in our DNA. And they also allow us to faster realize our platform ambitions in terms of delivering purely agent experiences that require identity to be a part of it, for us to be able to trust who we're interacting with.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (17:14)

Twilio shares just showing how much people are loving this revenue and the numbers. Gross margins still an area that some called out as being pressured quickly. Is that something you're focused on?

Jeff Lawson (Twilio CEO) (17:24)

I mean, of course we're focused on it. Right. The commitment that we made last quarter to investors was that we would stabilize gross margins. And I think in Q3, that's exactly what we did. We'll continue to work to stabilize gross margins. I think it kind of overshadows the story in some respects. I mean, the reality is, is that we maintain an incredible amount of price discipline A lot of that gross margin pressure frankly comes from two areas. One is the success that we're having in our messaging business, which is growing super fast. I don't really think we should have to apologize for that. And frankly I think that allows us to grow into other customer opportunities over time. And then the other area is just fees that get passed down by carriers. I think that is purely an optical element of the story. It doesn't impact our ability to generate gross profit and importantly has not impeded our ability to drive operating leverage and free cash flow.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (18:15)

That's not impeding the stock today either because I Chandler, great to have some time with you. Twilio CEO now also delivering a better than expected forecast was Reddit social media platform has benefited from data licensing deals of course with Open Air and Google, but it's really about growing advertising business that drives it. This time we spoke the Reddit CEO Gen Wang.

Podcast Narrator / Bloomberg Tech Announcer (18:36)

I think a lot of the things that we're doing are working. You know you saw our active advertiser grow 75% year over year in Q3 and I think that's the result of our go to market in acquisition investments as well as making our platform more automated and simple to use as well as really delivering more performance, particularly at the mid and lower funnel where a lot of mid market and SMB businesses like to transact. We also grew 9 out of 15 verticals over 50% year over year and I think that shows the diversification of our business business, how robust it is across, you know, every vertical and every objective. So every advertiser can find success on our platform. So those investments that we've been made are really paying off and the investments.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (19:27)

In translation really paying off. When you think about diversification internationally, how is that still working? How much low hanging fruit is there to grow outside the United States?

Podcast Narrator / Bloomberg Tech Announcer (19:36)

Well I think there's in there's enormous headroom outside of the US. Our traffic today is about 55% outside of the US and 45% in the US and the rest of world has been growing and every country that is a non English country is just an opportunity to build another Reddit. And the process of doing that starts with machine translation using AI to translate universal conversations so that somebody in France or German Germany who operates in a non English language can have access to great content and community communities on Reddit and then the process of building local communities so that if you're in France you have a local bred community, German, you're in Germany, your local football communities so that it feels local Your city, communities, all of that is opportunity for us and opportunities to build another Reddit for every language and culture.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (20:32)

It's really interesting that AI is really the tailwind here, whether it's ability to serve your companies, those that are advertising advertising with you, that much more sophisticated applications, the way in which they're able to advertise with you, whether or not it's the AI that's helping you do translation. But also we know that a big part of the business has started to become how you're used by a LLM producers. How is that a stage of priority? Can you just weigh it up for us? The prioritization of advertising versus the prioritization of making these deals with big. You already have done with Google and OpenAI.

Podcast Narrator / Bloomberg Tech Announcer (21:04)

Yeah, our core business is advertising. It's a, it's a business model that has a lot of TAM and, you know, is a big addressable market. I think we have a lot of headroom there. Our ad platform is growing, our marketplace is growing, as I said, 60% plus year over year. And we really like our roadmap there. There are thousands more advertisers that can be on our platform in addition to more verticals and more geographies to come onto our ad platform. So we see a lot of opportunity there across the funnel, in automation, in ad formats, and even in delivering more performance for, for our advertisers. So that's our core business and that's where we're focused.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (21:47)

What about the chat bots and then actually helping you in terms of driving traffic? When does that really start to bring to bear?

Podcast Narrator / Bloomberg Tech Announcer (21:55)

You know, that's a space that is just under incredible heavy construction because it's also new and it's changing. The UI is changing, the products are changing. You know, how we think about, you know, the use of AI even on our platform, on Reddit is changing. So, you know, it's hard to say, I think, but I think, you know, I would say the relationships that we have with the LMS are not partnerships. The relationships are really healthy and we continue to learn a lot through these partnerships. I think, you know, we've certainly learned that our data is highly appreciated, it's highly used and cited. I think we're the topmost source of domain in Q3. So I think, you know, we're watching that area very, very closely as it evolves.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (22:42)

GEN LONG Reddit CEO they're talking of relationships with lms. Nvidia CEO Jensen Wang says he's still hopeful that the company would be able to supply Blackwell Type Chips, at least to China, quote, someday. This is the company caps off a huge week hitting a $5 trillion market cap. Bloomberg Zen king and covers that semi dank and that to space has been on this relentlessly. What a week in. And look, this is pushing back at some of the anxiety that grew yesterday that China just wasn't on the table when it came to a discussion between Trump and Xi.

Brad Ericsson (23:12)

Yeah, I mean, there's been so many twists and turns in this one. Just in the space of this week, Jensen's been obviously making his case in Washington. Now he's making his case in person in Asia where the President is. President Trump mentioned this Blackwell chip, said raise the possibility, raised everybody's hopes and then kind of took it away a little bit. So we don't really know where we are now other than hoping that, you know, because it's being discussed that there is more possibility of Nvidia doing more.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (23:41)

Business in China, certainly more business in South Korea. I just want to bring what our own Sherry Ann was able to say and catch up with the CEO Jensen Huang, while in a news scrum in South Korea. Just take a listen in what's the potential of sovereign programs that you mentioned, especially across Asia?

Brad Ericsson (23:58)

Well, that's here in Korea. Korea has a chance to be one of the world's major AI hubs. And today's, today's announcement, along with President Lee's passion and enthusiasm and drive and all of my, my CEO friends here who are dedicated to create this journey for Korea, this is a perfect example.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (24:22)

Of sovereign AI CEO friends. Ping, Samsung, Hyundai, SK Group, there was a lot going on, but some sovereign AI too for them in Korea.

Brad Ericsson (24:32)

Yeah, no, he, he's trying to make Korea into yet another example of this push that he sees of. Let's deploy AI everywhere. Let's, let's get it in government organizations, let's get it in corporate situations. And you know, Korea obviously has a vibrant tech economy, companies like Samsung. So he's seeing this as another perhaps exemplary kind of position and country for this push that he's making around the world.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (25:00)

260,000 accelerated chips to go to Korea. Bloomberg's in King, we thank you. And look, there was more than just chips over in South Korea. Shares of fried chicken stocks have got the Nvidia effect. Restaurant coach on FMB briefly surged as much as 20% on Friday, while Korean poultry processor Cherry Bro also soared by the daily limit of 30%. Trading volume about 200 times on average. And also makers of chicken frying robots jumped. Why? Because Jensen Wong Ate fried chicken in South Korea alongside the Samsung CEO and others. Wow. He manages to drive up share prices across the board. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech Boy. Have we got a busy markets day for you. So many earnings. Let's digest because we're currently seeing the Nasdaq once again trading higher up a percentage point not yet at a record high. Not shaking off yesterday's sell off but we're still trading to the upside as Amazon leads the pack points perspective. We're up 11%. New record high for Amazon growth more than 20%. Meanwhile Apple actually fades into the red. We were trading higher before the bell. We then took off maybe a bit of profit taking going on as they deliver what was better than expected revenue for their fiscal fourth quarter and point towards what at least 10%, 12% sales growth for that all important holiday quarter. Move on. Have a little look at what's on going happening in the world of Netflix. Another stock split yesterday we were hearing it of course coming from ServiceNow today 3.7% higher on Netflix which is $1,129 per share. They want to rectify that. They're going to do a 10 for one forward stock split to reset that share price. But let's return to the world of other areas of AI and in particular Core Scientific shareholders which voted down Core Weaves takeover bid blocking the proposed acquisition. But Core Weaves not slowing down in M and A announcing yesterday that it will acquire Marimo it's a maker of AI software. Just minutes after the Core Scientific deal was terminated. Here joining us to discuss call we've CEO Michael entray to a very busy week and I want to just dwell a little bit on Call Scientific because you're very important Scientific. You are the only customer you'd hope to bring them on keep using their compute. What happens now? How solid is that partnership?

Michael Intrater (Core Scientific CEO) (27:17)

Oh I think first of all thank you for having me and Happy Halloween.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (27:20)

Happy Halloween.

Michael Intrater (Core Scientific CEO) (27:22)

So the partnership is very, very solid. You know we continue to be a consumer of the services they provide. We continue to be a consumer for the next 10 or 15 years of with a series of extensions of the infrastructure that they provide and that we require in order to, to deliver our product. So you know the relationship is in, is in, is in good shape. The, the, the, the shareholders voted down the, the acquisition yesterday and you know from a strategic perspective I think everybody on both sides of the fence really felt like it made sense and it really just came down to price and for us you know we put out out a bid where as you said we're quite inquisitive. We've, we've, we bought Marimo yesterday. We bought weights and biases, Monolith, open pipe. We've really been buying and building the cloud and there is a price point that made sense for us to move forward with that transaction. And we have a plan and we are going to be very disciplined around that plant and you know, at approximately 10% it made sense. And if it, if it's going to be above that then, then we'll continue to use them as a vendor.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (28:48)

Well, Core Scientific now tries to diversify its own customer base other than just you. Does that give you any worry?

Michael Intrater (Core Scientific CEO) (28:55)

No, not at all. Look, you know our footprint within the Core Scientific ecosystem is a, about, I think it's about 580 megawatts worth of infrastructure. This, this quarter we've signed over 600 megawatts of, of data center infrastructure outside and you know, exclusively outside of Core Scientific. So look, you know, they're going to run their business. You know, we hope that they are a strong operator. It's important to us that they are, we are hopeful that they will continue to invest in their business and their ability to execute and deliver infrastructure and you know, we continue to work with them on a go forward basis just as we have for the past five years.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (29:41)

They were a bitcoin miner turned AI supplier. You two were that. There are some others out there as well, Terror Wolf and the like. Would you look to acquire any of those?

Michael Intrater (Core Scientific CEO) (29:49)

So, so I've always talked about acquisitions as strategic and opportunity opportunistic. My view is acquisitions like Marimo or weights, biases model, those are strategic acquisitions. They move the company and broaden our software solutions. The, the, the acquisition of a infrastructure provider is a opportunistic acquisition. We're currently building data centers within Core Weave from the ground up to solve this problem of adding additional control over the infrastructure. So you know we've got a data center in Pennsylvania, in Lancaster that we're building. We have a data center in New Jersey and Kenilworth that we are building. And so you know, we're always, you know, reviewing the opportunities that, that exist within those two buckets, the strategic and the opportunistic bucket. And we're open to, to looking at things that move our company forward. But once again it's got to be at the right price.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (30:50)

Right price. Do you have to raise more capital to keep on building out your datacenter offering?

Michael Intrater (Core Scientific CEO) (30:56)

So you know, coreweave has been at the tip of the spear of Raising capital for the AI build out. Right. Like we were the first ones to do the GPU based backed lending products. And our growth continues to rage along. I mean it's just amazing how fast we're growing, how much interest there is for continued build out of our product of our software solution and delivery to a broader and broader base of clients. And so you know we'll continue to raise capital to support that activity just.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (31:35)

As we have and the reward board is big enough. You know the Gil lawyers of this world at Dao Davison still saying the capital structure doesn't make him happy because the amount the 5% you get back on a 9% investment is are you managing to rectify that?

Michael Intrater (Core Scientific CEO) (31:46)

I first of all I just fundamentally don't agree with his analysis. So we can, we can start there. But more importantly, you know we have built a business that generates great returns and provides the infrastructure that the world needs needs to build and deliver artificial intelligence. We think we have a great business plan. We have a very large and diversified shareholder base that agrees with us and we're going to continue to expand on.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (32:17)

The business that we've built and diversifying the customer base. I think matter is interesting how matters getting a bit beaten up for the amount that they're plowing into data centers. Whereas we're congratulating the likes of Amazon and indeed Google. What do you make of these anxieties around infrastructure build out?

Michael Intrater (Core Scientific CEO) (32:31)

You know it's interesting when, when, when a big investor gets beat up for investing large sums of money into the infrastructure that we're going to have to provide. Feels kind of like that's pretty bullish for us. We're going to have to provide that infrastructure. Look, Metta has a strategy. They have been incredibly disciplined around executing on that strategy. They are going to build their AI solution and we are really excited about adding them to our long list of very large, very active customers that are, that are really going to define what compute looks like and what the world looks like for the next 50 years.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (33:17)

Well keep coming back to give us that vision Michael and trade. It's been a long week for him him. We wish him a wonderful weekend core. We've CEO there. Meanwhile, design startup Canva is rolling out new tools to incorporating recent acquisitions to its main product suite to lure users away from rival Adobe. Our own Ed Ludlow is off today. He sat down with Cameron Adams, Canva co founder and chief Product officer about the launch.

Brad Ericsson (33:40)

It's definitely an advantage and we think deeply about the data we use and how we go about training our models, we're all about transparency. So every interaction you have with AI can be controlled in Canva. We give you all the switches and levers you need to say this data can be used, this data can't be used. And in terms of copyright, we actually offer indemnity for that for our enterprise users. So as they're using Canva, they get the benefit of what we call Canva shield, which means that any content that they generate through any of our AI systems, we indemnify them for any copyright that might arise from that. Although we've never had, we've never had any problems and we don't foresee any.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (34:26)

I think it's really important to sort of acknowledge there is a big body of the technology industry that are like.

Brad Ericsson (34:32)

More relaxed now about the copyright issue.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (34:34)

Copyright concerns are kind of fading. Brings us back to the idea that.

Brad Ericsson (34:38)

In the future there are alternative models out there, third party models. Models. Is Canva flexible to kind of update.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (34:45)

Its stack on the run? You know, if a model becomes available.

Brad Ericsson (34:48)

That can improve the operating system, you.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (34:51)

Would be able and nimble to, to.

Brad Ericsson (34:53)

Integrate it into, into what you're doing. Yeah, entirely. We've always taken a three pronged approach. So we love partnering with the world's best, where some of the first people that open AI anthropic Google, call on when they want to innovate with the models that they're producing and kind of collaborate with us to create an amazing experience. On top of that, we're also building amazing research and development in house. The Canva design model is a great example of that and we're constantly developing those models inside Canva. I think we now have over 100 different models inside Canva that are deployed through the product. Then the third pillar is creating a great ecosystem system. We know a tremendous number of developers also want to build on camera. They want to bring their technology into Canva because we now have 260 million people that use the product.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (35:47)

Canva co founder Cameron Adams there now. Coming up, we'll discuss the future of Tick Tock in the United States after this week's historic meeting between President Trump and Xi Jinping, where it wasn't really brought up. This is Bloomberg Tech.

Jeff Lawson (Twilio CEO) (36:02)

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Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (37:02)

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Alexandra Levine (Bloomberg Social Media Reporter) (38:30)

We've been waiting for any clear sign basically since the executive order was signed back in September that said that the deal was going to be advancing. Any clear sign that China is actually on board. And of course everybody in the Trump White House has been very reassuring and saying that China is fully on board with this. But reading between the lines, we really haven't heard a lot from China. And even after this, this meeting that, that, that the two leaders had yesterday, we, you know, we were waiting for any sort of clear signaling that, that, you know, things are really progressing. And I think that most people watching were more interested in what wasn't said than what actually was.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (39:08)

There is still much cynicism, shall I say, over any future relationship of just a spun out tick tock in the US From President Trump's own party.

Alexandra Levine (Bloomberg Social Media Reporter) (39:19)

Absolutely. I mean, I think that you already have members of his own party who have pointed out all sorts of issues with the deal that has been proposed. You know, the law that was passed last year under then President Joe Biden said that there really has to be no operational relationship between TikTok and its parent company by dance under whatever new setup we may have. And there's, there's several different aspects of the deal that show that ByteDance is going to have a, potentially have a board seat that ByteDance will, you know, still have oversight over key parts of the business and its own executives leading key parts of TikTok's business. So it really seems the more that you drill down into the deal that is on the table that there are a lot of points that make it seem like there's, there is in fact going to be an operational relationship which would probably not pass legal muster.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (40:10)

Bloomberg's Alex Levine relentlessly on this story. We thank you. I'm sure we'll come back on it. Meanwhile, let's keep the discussion going on US China relations and its impact on the tech sector at large. Amy Webb's with us. She's a founder and CEO of Future Today Strategy Group and a professor at NYU Stern School of Business. You and your colleague colleagues, you develop predictive scenarios, executable strategies for organizations worldwide with research specializations. You particularly look at AI at biotech. And Amy, what did you make of Trump and Xi's relations this week? Because much was left unsaid rather than just said.

Alexandra Levine (Bloomberg Social Media Reporter) (40:44)

That's right. I mean, I think the result here was certainly a de escalation rather than a full reset. But it definitely did not end the AI Cold war or some of the consternations around other frontier technologies that are often in the mix. We talk about these two countries, so I would argue that this sort of moves the battlefield away from tariffs, but over to transistors for the time being.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (41:08)

Okay, let's go to transistors. Because much was hyped that maybe Blackwell architecture chips from Nvidia would be discussed between the two leaders. And it wasn't we understand today that Jensen Huang is still optimistic that he'll get some sort of access to China. What do you think about the realities of that?

Alexandra Levine (Bloomberg Social Media Reporter) (41:25)

Well, I think at the moment what we have is predictability where all we had before was growing uncertainty. So this could ease some short term supply chain fears. So that definitely helps companies like Nvidia and AMD and other US semiconductor toolmakers who had been frozen out of Chinese markets. But I also don't think that Nvidia is going to be allowed to sell just whatever it wants. That said, given Nvidia's new 5 trillion valuation, which also happened this week, this is really, really important, not just for investors but for our entire economy. I think something like 40,000 companies use Nvidia GPUs and for AI and for accelerated computing. And their biggest customers are the big tech companies, Microsoft, Google, Oracle and by Market Cap, these are some of America's biggest companies. So I don't think that the doors are open and there's going to be a fire sale overnight. But I do think there's reason to be more optimistic than, than maybe before.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (42:23)

But Amy, why does it matter to the US Economy and some of the big players in Nvidia? Because Nvidia hit that $5 trillion market capital capitalization while saying they had zero sales into China. The idea being that they can actually go it alone.

Alexandra Levine (Bloomberg Social Media Reporter) (42:40)

Well, I think that's true today. The issue is what's coming in the future. So the ccp every couple of years, every five years they have very secretive meetings held in Beijing on their five year plans and this happens with regularity. China's top. So this meeting just happened and China's top priority is building what it's calling a modern industrial system, which is really code for making old industries smart and new industries unstoppable. So what this means is heavily investing in frontier sectors like aerospace, biomanufacturing, quantum advanced materials and in improving supply chains, machines. All of this requires those advanced chips. So effectively what this means is today Nvidia is probably fine going into the future. It gives Chinese champions and local chip makers much more time to domesticate their operations, their supply chains and push their own homegrown chips, which is potentially great for China, but bad for the West.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (43:43)

So kind of more deep sea moments performance, but from the actual underlying technology, not just the lens that is built upon it. Amy, I'm interested in what really the chokehold that China had found it had was rare earths and there was some discussion around there. But how quickly is the US And Western nations able to become self dependent in their own way on that front.

Alexandra Levine (Bloomberg Social Media Reporter) (44:05)

Look, I would love to offer some better news here, but the reality is that the materials for semiconductors come from, from, you know, basically one place on the planet. While in the future I think we'll be able to engineer our ways around those, those, those materials and those magnets. But at the moment we're kind of hamstrung. And as much as the Trump administration has promised to make significant investments into advanced manufacturing here in the United States, the reality is nobody is going to be able to catch up when it comes to advanced manufacturing at scale, certainly not over the next four years, not even here in the United States. So it doesn't mean that, that we're all at a huge competitive disadvantage. It does mean that even if the domestic market isn't hot within China, the CCP is banking on industrial modernization as the backbone of its national competitiveness. And it has government sponsorship and support and tremendous capital that it can put toward that effort.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (45:03)

Amy Webb, really interesting. Thank you for your analysis today for Future Today Strategy Group. We appreciate it. Venture capital has poured nearly $200 billion into startups in just 2025 alone as of early October. Our colleagues who cover the sector have been really drilling down to find the most influential and best funded ones that you should know about. One of those reporters, of course, is our own Rachel Metz and she joins us now. And you seek out 24 real winners here. And what's so interesting is this real international flavor as well. Just talk to us about how you broke it down. You initially perhaps find the LLM makers that we should really be thinking about other than OpenAI. Yeah, I mean, we've done this list for the past several years and this year we really wanted to try to focus on having a big selection of companies in different categories because as the ecosystem has evolved, evolved, we're seeing people moving into more and more categories of it. We have companies that are building sort of the infrastructure for it. You have only a handful of companies that are actually building models. You have companies that are concentrating on office related stuff, companies concentrating on content generation. So it was starting to feel like we had enough for kind of like a yearbook. Superlative was kind of what I was thinking of it in my mind when we were working, working on this of these different categories. And so we're looking now at the model makers to watch. Deep seek in China, obviously, but humane in Saudi Arabia, an interesting one and one that's been a big infrastructure player. Mistral in France. We had the CEO Arthur on just last week. But move to the vibe Coding because I think this is where people are getting really excited about the application of AI, particularly in the world of engineering. We all know about Cursor but take us to Sweden, take us to other players in the us. I would love to go to Sweden now. So Lovable in Sweden is has grown tremendously quickly similar to how Cursor has grown tremendously quickly in the U.S. lovable and also Relet. Those two are a little more focused on people that don't have coding experience. Lovable in particular is focused on helping you build say a website, even if you don't know anything about coding.

Alexandra Levine (Bloomberg Social Media Reporter) (47:13)

Cursor is more meant for a professional.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (47:16)

Or someone who at least has like a decent to pretty deep knowledge of coding. But these other companies, replit and Lovable, they really are trying to democratize the idea of building something on the Internet or building an app, building software. Democratization is the watchword when it comes to making movies, when it comes to making music. And not without its tensions with ip but briefly thinking of Suno Runway here in New York, but also Black Friday Forest Labs over in Germany. I love that name. Yeah.

Alexandra Levine (Bloomberg Social Media Reporter) (47:44)

So Black Forest Labs, they are really.

Bloomberg Host (Interviewer) (47:47)

Interesting group of people who were behind the initial technology that was used to launch the company. Stability AI so stable diffusion. They worked on that and they are now building their own separate company using technology that they've also built and it's able to create create quite realistic looking images and a lot of companies are striking deals with them such as Matter. Rachel Metz It's a great read. Go and have a wonderful Halloween with the family. We so appreciate you today. Now that does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech. Another must watch story. Our original investigation can't look away. The case against social media. It's now available on Bloomberg platforms. You must go watch it. This is Bloomberg. Running small and medium sized businesses is hard work. Business owners need to be sure that their ads are working just as hard as they do. Amazon Streaming TV ads helps put small and medium businesses front and center on premium content and shows that people are already watching. With Amazon ads you don't have to sacrifice relevance for reach. Trillions of browsing, shopping and streaming insights help you reach the right audience and measurement tools show you what's working the hardest to help you optimize your campaign in real time. Gain the edge with Amazon ads As.

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