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For every six Chinese people, there's a Ping an customer. We have accumulated a massive amount of the customer data, not just on the financial side, but end to end across channels thanks to our AI advancements. This is the Technology Empowered Growth at Ping an podcast. In our latest episode, Ping an is utilizing technology to provide integrated and personalized 24. 7 support for China's rapidly growing elderly population. Now available on Spotify, Apple Podcast and Ping An's website.
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Bloomberg Audio Studios podcasts Radio news Bloomberg Tech is live from coast to coast with Caroline Hyde in New York and Ed Ludlow in San Francisco.
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This is Bloomberg tech. Coming up, SoftBank sells its entire stake in Nvidia for close to $6 billion. This to help bankroll its other investments.
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As we sit down with Core Weave CEO Michael and Trader to talk about the company's earnings. And that data center delay.
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And more earnings with Paramount Skydance as the company reports its first results since David Ellison's takeover.
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Much to digest when it comes to the fundamentals of businesses today, Ed, but overall, we've got a bit of risk aversion here. We've got some of the biggest players in technology. On the downside, you're going to drill into the individual movers, but there is a question of infrastructure. There's a question of pressure on some of these market capitalizations, but just off 8, 10% after yesterday's bounce back on hopes that the government shutdown might be reaching some sort of end. But Ed, take us to the individual movers.
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C
Yeah, Core Weave is where we start. The stock down about 13%. On track for its biggest drop since mid August. The stock trading at its lowest level since early September. In a few minutes time, we're going to speak to the CEO Michael and traitor. The company cut its revenue outlook for fiscal 25 or trimmed it really because of a delay to a specific project. The other thing that's weighing on the markets right now is Nvidia. Nvidia down around 2 percentage points when last I checked. The issue is right now 3%. Now that SoftBank sold its remaining stake in Nvidia in its entirety. It's not unprecedented. SoftBank has sold out of Nvidia before. I'd also remind our audience yesterday, Nvidia jumped almost 6% on track for its biggest jump, or was its biggest jump since April. But the market's a little nervous here. There's a lot to unpack.
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There is, and let's unpack it with our Executive Global Tech Editor, Peter Elstrom. Peter, talk us through what is happening because as Ed says, this is not unheard of. And in many ways what they use the money for could end up being a benefit to Nvidia longer term.
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Yeah, that's exactly right, Caroline. So SoftBank reported earnings for the quarter. They were really blowout earnings. They reported about $16 billion in net income. That's roughly six times what had been expected. A lot of that came from some of their investments in AI, including their stake in Open Air in particular. But as you, as you mentioned, they decided that they were going to sell their entire stake in Nvidia and take, take the $6 billion so that they could make other investments with it. Now, a big part of where they're going to put that money is into their Stargate venture where they're building these AI data centers in the US and they're going to buy Nvidia chips to put into those data centers. So partly Masayoshi Son is getting this cash so it can make investments in AI. Some people may be reading it as a negative sign for AI and for Nvidia in particular. But in fact, he's going to use that money to make investments.
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C
Again, not unprecedented. Nvidia was a stock that Softbank sold out of in 2019, and then in 2020 they started building up a stake again. And some of those paper gains have been to SoftBank's benefit. The issue is that management faced a lot of questions both about what they're doing here, their rationale, what they're going to use the cash for, but also, are we in an AI bubble? Peter, what did they say?
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Yeah, that was one of the questions that came up. So Masayoshi Son doesn't do the earnings calls anymore. He stopped doing those a few years ago when he was taking ARM public. But he has said a number of times that he regrets selling in video shares. In 2019, as you referred to, those shares would have been worth more than $200 billion now, which is more than the market cap for SoftBank at this point. But so the person who subs in for him is the cfo Yoshimitsu Goto. And he talked through these issues. He did get some questions about the Nvidia shares. He said it's not that they don't believe in Nvidia anymore. He got the question you're referring to, are we in an AI bubble? And he said it's hard to tell at this point. Not quite the same kind of conviction you would hear from Sam Altman or from Jensen Huang, but he's realistic about, we're not really sure where we are in this cycle. But to be clear, Masayoshi Son is going to keep making investments.
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Peter Elstrom, breaking it down. We thank you so much. Let's talk about where we are in this cycle because Core Weave shares, as Ed pointed out earlier under pressure, that's after it lowered its annual revenue forecast due to delay at a third party, developing a data center really overshadowed impressive growth in revenue and order backlog. Let's get straight to it with Corvette CEO Michael Entrator. How frustrating is it that you don't own your entire supply chain? How much of an issue is the sort of power you have to give to third parties?
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Oh, so look, I, I think it's important to understand that every single part of this ecosystem is dependent upon other parts of the ecosystem. Nobody controls the entire supply chain. And that's just the nature of doing business at this scale on projects that are as complicated as this, whether it's, you know, you know, the, the, the design and architecture of the chips, through the fabrication of the chips, through the building of the data center, through the concrete that has to go into the data center. Like, it's just, you know, like it's really hard to even contemplate a world in which you have true control over every aspect of it. And so you're going to work with partners and you're going to work with good partners that are able to help you drive your business forward.
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Is this a good partner who's had issues at this powershell level?
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B
Yeah, look, they are a good partner, right? Like we've been working with these guys since 2018. There, there has been a stumble. There's an issue. The issue is going to be cleaned up rapidly and, But I wouldn't say that they're not a good partner. I think that, you know, we are, you know, we've gone back and contracted with them again and again and you know, they've contracted with us again and again because, you know, we do work well together. It's just, you know, occasionally you hit a bump in the road. You know, what we're talking about here is a contract that gets pushed back by, you know, one quarter, let's say, and that the impact of that on our revenue is a delay of revenue, not a loss of revenue. And you know, I think that is the definition of working with an ecosystem of good partners.
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C
Michael, good morning. Which customer was it, please, that was impacted by this delay?
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We don't speak to specific customers within the data centers. That's, that's not how we look at it. But you know, we really are working with the whole, you know, or a material part of the broader kind of ecosystem that consumes compute at this scale. So, you know, that, that's, you know, this is a large project, it's from a large counterpart and you know, like I said, you know, they understand the impact of this delay and that they are shifting with us the contract back to ensure that the total contract value that was being contemplated is going to be captured at this.
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C
I thought you might say that, but I wanted to offer you the opportunity to explain who the customer was anyway. I mean, this is going to sound a little bit like I work in your internal audit team or in your risk team, but there is a bigger issue here of managing third party risk as much as you can. So if your supply is tight today, what procedures are you putting in place for the event that your backlog doubles and supply is even tighter down the road?
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Listen, that's a, that's a, that's, that is the question that we work on across our company continuously. Right. And if you, if you, if you think about the messages that I was trying to communicate during the earnings call yesterday, I talked about the incredible impact of the effort that we've had to diversify our clients. We started the year with, you know, 85% of our revenue to a single client. And we are coming out of the year with our backlog with, you know, which has reached, you know, all time highs where no specific client is more than 35% of it and that is down from 50% even last quarter. So you're seeing tremendous progress on the contracting side, on the supply side. When you're looking at the PowerShells, the data center providers, you know, there is no single provider of data centers that represents in excess of 20% of our 2.9 gigawatts of power that we will be delivering to the market over the next 24 months. You know, so you're seeing a real focus by our company to diversify on both sides of the, you know, the ledger, the clients that we are delivering infrastructure to, as well as the suppliers that are delivering us the components that we need to be successful.
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What can be done? Because we hear about power issues, we hear about how much people maybe need government to help speed up contracts. Supply chain headaches. What is it in this particular datacenter issue that won't be replicated down the road? How are you making sure? Or is it just something we are going to see time and time again? Do you think so?
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B
So look, the way that we are handling this is we are doing several discrete things to ensure that we are future proofing ourselves against these type of delays. Right? So we have our team that has been built out over the past year that builds and delivers data center and so we have self build organization to be able to deliver our own data centers. For instance, Kenilworth in New Jersey or Lancaster in Pennsylvania, where we are building from the, from the ground up those skill sets, being able to deploy those individuals with those talents down to the data centers as they're being constructed by third parties if they encounter problems where we can be useful, helpful thinking through ways of solving and driving the process forward is really important to being able to mitigate these type of delays. We have massively diversified our data center providers so we're not exposed to any specific data center provider in too large of a component. And then the third piece of it is it's important to understand that as we get larger, as our delivered power gets larger, the relative impact of a delay at any one given site becomes less and less meaningful and less and less impactful on our run rate. And that's really important. Like you're, you're, you're encountering scaling issues within a company that's encountering scaling issues within a supply chain. Both of those will get better. Time solves that. Scale solves that.
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We are currently seeing that time isn't particularly helping the share price as we speak. It's now down 14.3%. Worst day since August. We are here with Michael and Trader across radio and tv and I want to sort of ask whether you think more broadly the US is stunted by the supply chain headache or do you think there is something that can be done from a federal perspective here to ensure that you can build at the rate you want to build, you're not having these sorts of headaches.
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So, so we've been, we and many others have been, you know, quite forceful in making the case that there is a role for government in helping us with some of the permitting issues, speed to which we can get our infrastructure and others can get their infrastructure attached to the grid. You know, all of those type of things where there's a great role for the government to help in that they are the organization or government entity that is correctly positioned to help facilitate that. And I think that's a great role where government can lean in and make an impact across the space broadly.
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C
Michael, you have an agreement with Nvidia that lots of people find very interesting that down the road, if there is spare capacity, there's some flexibility for you to deploy elsewhere. That's a simple summation of it. But I'm wondering how you're thinking about serving some of the smaller air labs and casting that net even wider in your customer base if indeed that capacity gets freed up down the line.
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Yeah, it's a contract I'm actually incredibly excited about, right? It's a contract that we did with Nvidia where we will deliver them compute for the next six years. But in the contract is the capacity to interrupt the flow of compute to them. And that will allow us to repurpose that compute to new companies, startups, companies that have struggled to get access to the compute that they require to bring new companies, organizations, ideas into existence. And I think it's just an incredibly important component of how the infrastructure is so important to allowing the ecosystem itself, of these startups, of these new companies, of these new ideas to become more resilient, to become more scaled. And it's just a great contract for us to be able to position ourselves. It also provides this wonderful on ramp for us to be able to work with the new amazing companies that are coming into existence so that they integrate into our solution and get to make use of the best alternative that exists in the market as they're scaling their companies.
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C
Michael, it's finished. To what extent is Nvidia still the gold standard? Nvidia's GPUs for your customer base and what data are you tracking on demand for those kind of more inference specific chips that are offered by others?
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So look, we have always been client led, right? Our clients come to market and tell us, hey, we would like you guys to help us build a cluster. We need it to be this size in this location and this type of network and we work with them. In a very kind of interactive way to ensure that the infrastructure that we're building is the best infrastructure for them, is fungible for us like all of these type of of of requirements to make for successful delivery of infrastructure. Right now the, the, the reality of the situation is the buy signals from our clients overwhelm our capacity to deliver infrastructure to the market. Matter of fact they overwhelm the entire markets capacity to deliver infrastructure to the market. You have a systemic shortage of ability to deliver the GPUs, the computing infrastructure for the build out of artificial intelligence. And we have never wavered from that position. We have been very, very clear that you know, when we look at the demand signals coming into core weave, the totality of that overwhelms the capacity of the market to deliver that and will continue to do that for quite a while.
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Michael Entrazen, a Core We've CEO thank you for coming back on Bloomberg Tech. Okay, I'm also taking a look at shares of Nebby Us. This is the Neo cloud spun out of Russia's Yandex a year ago. The US listed shares down more than 3% but in the quarter saw growth of 300% year on year and is added a major contract with matters. That's positive upside. Maybe this was a high bar kind of quarter where the market saw it coming in. But you know Carol, I think you'd agree Nebulous a name that's coming up more often in the context of hyperscalers and in this case matter using them for off ramped compute.
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All about the supply of infrastructure. But coming up we steer towards earnings again. Paramount Skydance raising its target though for job cuts and for cost saving measures. We'll dig in next. This is Bloomberg Tech. For every six Chinese people there's a Ping an customer. We have accumulated a massive amount of the customer data, not just on the financial side, but end to end across channels thanks to our AI advancements. This is the technology empowered growth at Ping an podcast. In our latest episode, Ping an is utilizing technology to provide integrated and personalized 24. 7 support for China's rapidly growing elderly population. Now available on Spotify, Apple podcasts and Ping AD's website. Support for the show comes from public.com you're thoughtful about where your money goes. You've got your core holdings, some recurring crypto buys, maybe even a few strategic option plays on the side. The point is you're engaged with your investments and public gets that. That's why they built an investing platform for those who take it seriously on public you can put together a multi asset portfolio for the long haul. Stocks, bonds, options, crypto. It's all there plus an industry leading 3.6% APY high yield cash account. Switch to the platform built for those who take investing seriously. Go to public.com market and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com market paid for by Public Investing.
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Zerohash complete disclosures available@public.com disclosures okay, Canva.
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Back to earnings with Paramount Skydance, which reported its financial results for the first time since a new investor group took over in August. The company raised its target for job cuts and cost saving measures and is forecasting $30 billion in revenue next year. Let's break it all down with Laura Martin, senior Entertainment Analyst at Needham. I don't know, like hello, what's being cheered here. You know, sometimes cutting your way to profit and cutting your way into a good financial position is not the most exciting story. What is the Laura Martin Main takeaway?
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Well, the Laura Martin Main takeaway was I thought they left more questions unanswered than they answered. So I think one of the big questions is they just did an affiliated transaction with Oracle, which for enterprise Software, which is the dad's company so now you can withdrew pricing, move money between these two public companies. That sort of was weird. And then also they said they're going to spend a billion five on content and double their film slate from seven films a year to 15 films a year starting in 2026. And the problem with that is the Skydance track record is one theatrical release a year. So. So going to 5:15 means not only spending the money on the negative costs, but now you're going to spend about 100 million each. Marketing, which all just sounds like an awful lot of money that you're spending in the near term, which is a tax on public shareholders before you get the return. It takes about three years to release a movie between green lining and a release, which means you have a couple of investment years ahead of you, which doesn't sound like, you know. So we're going to stay on the sidelines here. In terms of the shares. I want to go back to that relationship between Oracle and the affiliated transaction that you mention, implying that the value can be transferred between the two public companies. How much is that a help? If you're thinking about the sheer scale of money David Ellison needs, perhaps from Larry Ellison to keep on buying and WBD assets or how much is it a concern just in what are you actually buying an entertainment company here or a tech and AI infrastructure bet? So I think that is one of the differentiated things they're saying is they're saying that our content storytelling is complementary to our tech stack and our tech stack needs investment because Paramount, the old Paramount, sort of starved it. So we're. We Peace guy are going to invest in the tech stack. So from a fundamental point of view, they're going to try to marry storytelling with Jenny Tech, which is sort of a cool messaging, although expensive in the near term, I would say the Oracle point was just a new piece of information we got having nothing to do with Warner Brothers. Like if, if the dad writes a $70 billion check to Warner Brothers, like, you know, that's a bigger deal than a contract, might be several million a year. So it's just an affiliated transaction that I just would really like to see the pricing on when they have to disclose it in a 10k. But that's just a new piece of information. I think the big issue is you don't know what you're buying here. Are you buying a $16 billion subscale, Paramount, Skydance, or are you buying a. Are they going to use money to make a $70 billion acquisition of all of Warner Brothers and then that's a, that's round numbers, $100 billion scaled player with bigger everything including studios. So then you wouldn't have to double the films because Warner Brothers got 15 by itself already. So I think they might be justifying of Warner Brothers bid in some ways with some of their cost estimates here.
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Laura, very quick pivot here. You just heard the call, we've interview you published your research on hyperscaler Capex. Just a quick reaction to what you heard.
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Yeah, so I mean I think one of the biggest, biggest question we get is are the hyperscalers spending too much money on infrastructure? And we published a note this morning showing that the Jenny implementations at Amazon, Meta and Alphabet are accelerating their revenue growth and cutting their operating costs. So they're getting margin expansion by using generative AI tools which gives them the confidence to invest in these infrastructure plays to then sell to third parties those same capabilities to lower costs and drive, you know, faster product innovation for the rest of the US economy. So I actually think that the biggest funders of generative AI infrastructure are seeing the biggest benefits already in their own businesses. Nora Martin on optimistic moat for the end. We really appreciate it always from Needham. Keep coming back. Thank you. The valuations don't look crazy, but they do if there's nervousness on the growth story. And that's why I think the story of which we do remain bullish and.
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We do think that there is a.
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Lot further to go, it is likely to be a volatile ride.
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That was BlackRock's Helen Jewell discussing the nervousness we're seeing in stocks right now. You can see that in video and you can see it in Core Wave. As we've been discussing all morning, the risks aren't only about lack of growth, Bloomberg Opinion columnist Chris Bryant writing about that there's a quote, a danger of depreciation tsunami linked to the short lifespan of AI chips. His piece focuses on AI investors ignoring warnings from short seller Michael Barry. You can check that out on The Bloomberg Terminal or.comCarol yeah.
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Now though, Ed, it's time for talking tech. And first up, Microsoft is trying to build a $10 billion AI data center along the Portuguese coast. It's working with Start Campus, a Portuguese developer, and British startup N scale, one of Microsoft's biggest European investments this year. Plus, Intel's chief technology and AI officer Sachin Katie has left to join OpenAI, where he'll be working on the startup's infrastructure efforts back at intel, while CEO Lip Bhutan will take over Katie's role and reports on another major Departure Matter is set to lose its chief AI scientist, Yann LeCun. According to Financial Times, Lecun is reportedly leaving to launch his own startup, focusing on what he calls world Models is in early talks with investors to raise funds.
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C
Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. If you're just joining us, our top stories are core weave and Nvidia. Nvidia down 3%. SoftBank is selling out of the entirety of its almost $6 billion stake in the company because it needs cash to finance its other ventures. The street not really seeing this as a concern about Nvidia itself. But in aggregate, taken with core weaves almost 14% drop, there are some jitters in the market. Core Weavers down after just slightly trimming its outlook for sales in 2025 because of a delay on a specific datacenter project. That delay attributable to a third party. And in an interview with the CEO earlier in the program, we didn't really get any answers on who the customer impacted is. But with time and with scale, such supply issues will go away. The market right now not buying it, Eric.
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They're not. And let's stick in with the fact the market's not buying it. Bloomberg equities are buying. Porter, come in. Reinickie is here with us. And it's interesting. The jitters around AI of late have been around an AI bubble and demand concern. But ultimately these are supply side issues. Constraints for Core Weave, maybe cash constraints for Softbank and eating sell off in video. Yeah, it's really interesting how this has shifted really from the dip buying that we saw yesterday that drove Nvidia up. Corey, I think was also up before the bell, before it reported its results. And now we're seeing really any concern on either side. AI bubble or supply here is really weighing on these shares. I think as the AI theme just continues to get stretched, investors are, are nervous and they're really, well, really ready to sell at kind of any moment. This especially coming before Nvidia results next week. Obviously the whole market really looks ahead to that. But shares going down into Nvidia results is a little bit different than we what we usually see.
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C
Right. Carbon, you made a really good point and I'm going to bring up a chart to illustrate it. Yesterday Nvidia jumped almost 6% which was its biggest jump since early April. So a drop off of 3% or more in the session taken into account with the news flow. Give that context. Generally speaking though, what is the sentiment of the investors that we're speaking to right now? Are they still like mega bullish on this long term trend that they think will just carry on and keep going.
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A
Yeah, that's a really great question. I think people are very split, but I hear a lot of people that are still very bullish on the long term trend and even say that some selling now or a little shakeout in the market would be pretty healthy. I mean, valuations are very stretched. We've, we're three years into a bull run. These are some of the biggest stocks in the overall market. So it makes sense that they dragged down the entire index. So a little bit of a shakeout here wouldn't be a huge concern. Obviously this is really overlaid though, with the fact that people are really talking about an AI bubble. And so I think any selling and any of these stocks, even, you know, at the end of the year when people are sort of looking to lock in performance, lock in gains, it, you know, sparks more conversation around this entire debate about an AI bubble.
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C
Come in. Reinecke, thank you very much. Meanwhile, shares of Nokia and Ericsson close higher in European trading. Sources say the European Commission is weighing steps to push EU members to phase out Huawei and ZTE gear from telecom networks amid security concerns. More let's get out to Bloomberg's Dylan Deutsch who joins us with the reporting. This is timely and this is very interesting. What do we learn in the course of reporting about how serious this, this move is to push Huawei out of a market that it is very strong in in Europe?
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Yeah, I think it's actually really important to note people do not realize that there's still so much Huawei kit in various EU countries infrastructures. And the European Commission for years has wanted to push EU countries to stop using this technology across their networks. They have really failed to do so. And the new commission that came in two years ago, they're doing a new push. They're going to try to get different EU countries to push out, force out Huawei and zte. Now, I cannot overstate how difficult this is going to be. Like I said, the previous commission tried to do this and they did not have the political backing. Things like critical infrastructure, things like national security, these are left up to the member states of the eu. So essentially what has to happen is these countries will have to come together and say, yes, actually we're to hand over that power to Brussels to the European Commission to make that a reality. That is a tough pill for a lot of people countries to swallow. Countries such as in your piece you make clear Spain, Greece, which have remained relatively Dependent, interestingly, UK we know that they've been pulling away for a long time, banned any Huawei infrastructure similar with Sweden. So it can be done. It's interesting that China sort of tried to point out that it slowed those nations down though. Yeah, it's a great point, Caroline, because you know, a lot of the operators and independent analysis has been done to show that actually by forcing a strip out of Huawei from the UK networks that delayed 5G roll by up to two years. This is a very costly ambition from certain countries if they want to go ahead with this kind of push. Not only does it delay possible technology development, it also comes at great cost to the operators. So if you look at Germany, for example, some people in the government are examining ways that, okay, if they were to try to force Huawei NZT out of their networks, could they compensate? Compensate operators? That obviously would soften the blow for a lot of these operators. But this would come at a great cost then to governments, if not operators. Jillian Deutsch, it's a great read. We urge people to go take a read of it. Thank you very much indeed. Let's take a look at crypto more broadly right now because we want to pivot into the world of bitcoin. It's too seeing some risk aversion selling today. We're off by 2%, 103,000, remember, it remains below its moving average target. So 100 day moving average, for example, 110,000 remains trading below that. People fearful they won't be seeing any sort of breakout. We're seeing Gemini space station though. Gemini, of course, crypto exchange went public recently off by 15%. That's after its earnings just showed that, you know, perhaps they're not managing to ramp into any sort of profitability as soon as people had maybe hoped. Let's bring in Bloomberg senior crypto reporter Olga Kara, who can dig into the Gemini story because they were a beneficiary of the changes in regulation in the United States. But why did it underwhelm on the quarter? Just reporting. So like you said, the Winklewas twins that founded Gemini. They have been very strong supporters of President Trump and a lot of crypto companies went public this year, as we've seen sort of deregulation and more favorable regulatory environment towards the industry. But the fact of the matter is that the company Gemini is unprofitable and some analysts basically don't expect it to become profitable until two or three years from now. And what we've seen this quarter is that the losses widen partially because of this IPO related expenses and marketing expenses. But people are wondering sort of what about profitability? When is that going to come?
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C
Olga, it's good to see you. Dan Chen, the CFO talked about this, the expenses issue and it being strategic for those that have never come across Gemini, what's the business model on paper? Just explain the basics of how it's supposed to function because then that will make the loss probably more digestible.
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Sure. So it's a crypto exchange. So their biggest rival is Coinbase here in the US and essentially they make their money about half of the money off of trading fees as people trade bitcoin, ether and other cryptocurrencies. And then they also have other businesses such as their credit cards have actually been on a roll and they've been able to grab a lot of new users through credit cards that essentially allow you to earn crypto rewards as you spend money. They also have a custody business and some other businesses.
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Bloomberg's Olga Grief, thank you very much. Now coming up on the program, Alibaba's singles day is underway and this year AI isn't an option for shoppers. We have more on that next. This is Bloomberg Tech.
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B
Including loss of principal.
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Brokerage services for U.S. listed registered securities options and bonds and is self directed. Directed account are offered by Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC. Crypto trading provided by Zerohash complete disclosures available@public.com disclosures okay. Canva can take your presentations to another level. It's super easy to use, but do you really know everything Canva can do? Let me walk you through some of the highlights. Take Canva Video. Whether you're a content pro or just starting, you can make standout videos right away. There are thousands of templates a super simple editor and AI powered tools that let you generate cinematic quality videos with sound from just one prompt. It seriously couldn't be easier. Then there's Canva docs create, collaborate and share visual documents that actually make an impact. Reports, plans, whatever you need and with magic write Canva's built in AI. You can brainstorm, draft and even create copy in your own voice. And Canva sheets. It's like spreadsheets if they were fun, which is maybe an over promise because spreadsheets, but they're more visual and insightful plus easy to generate. So whether it's a doc, a sheet or a show stopping video, Canva lets you bring your big ideas to life as fast as you can think of them. Put imagination to work@canva.com when you own your own business, you own every decision. Now own the car that rewards you for it. The Chase Sapphire Reserve for Business card brings the best Sapphire Reserve benefits to business owners who expect hardworking rewards. Designed to meet the needs of business owners at scale, this painful card elevates your travel experience and offers premium benefits and value toward business services that can take your business to the next level. Sapphire Reserve for business provides over $2,500 in annual value. Fuel your business and maximize rewards with 8x points on all purchases through Chase Travel, 3x points on social media and search engine advertising, annual partnership credits and more. Make every journey more rewarding with a $300 annual travel credit and access to a network of airport lounges. Whether you're looking for pre flight productivity or time to rest and recharge. Chase Sapphire Reserve for business with over $2,500 in annual value, it's the card that gives back all you put in. Learn more@chase.com ReserveBusiness Chase for Business Make More of what's Yours Accounts subject to credit approval restrictions and limitations apply. Cards are issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC China Singles Day it is underway now in its 17th year, but shifting consumer habits and a fierce price war. They've turned the one day shopping blitz into a weeks long campaign. Bloomberg TV's chief North Asia Correspondent Stephen Engle really examines China's evolving consumption trends amid a tougher economy. Influencer peddling is all the rage in China online of course, but now more than ever before on the actual trade fair floor as well, where rapid fire hawking of product over multiple mobile phones direct to China's billion plus consumers has never been this well in your face. I don't know how they talk so much. Everything you would possibly need to know about Vietnamese iced tea and other products from overseas. Doesn't matter if it's New Zealand milk powder and ice cream or Italian cleaning supplies complete with a Mandarin speaking European. They're all competing for Chinese cyber shoppers. In a market where around 40% of all retail sales are now done online. A single day 1111 is huge. We have a strong presence on online platform and we have a strong focus.
- [39:31]
C
On Gen Z. I I know Singers.
- [39:33]
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Day had another few more weeks to go but so far the result has been very, very encouraging. Online shopping in China is growing at three times the pace of traditional retail, with many brick and mortar outlets feeling that pain. CPI did pick up slightly in October, but overall retail spending is expected to have slowed again as households hold on to savings amid economic uncertainty. Add to that are lingering worries importers and exporters here feel about the fragile trade truce with the United States. High tariffs are hurting everybody, hurting both sides. One of the things that as businesses.
- [40:09]
B
We do hope is that there is.
- [40:11]
C
Longer than a 14 month detente, shall.
- [40:13]
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We say, but that there is some.
- [40:14]
B
General baseline of the relationship.
- [40:18]
C
These are areas we're going to trade in.
- [40:19]
B
These are areas that are no go.
- [40:20]
A
This is kind of a gray area.
- [40:21]
C
Where we'll keep negotiating on because that would help us all, to your point.
- [40:24]
A
Really understand what we can move forward. And if I do want to have.
- [40:28]
C
A five year contract with an American supplier, I know no matter what I'm.
- [40:30]
A
Going to get that product.
- [40:32]
B
I think it's been critically important that we have clarity.
- [40:36]
A
US wine exports to China this year were down 77% in the seven months through July from a year ago, with Chinese tariffs and taxes combined amounting to about 75% on American wine. And yet Barros is cautiously optimistic for a recovery as the truce has kept tariffs from escalating further.
- [40:55]
B
It was a very, very positive development.
- [40:58]
A
That they came up with an actual.
- [41:00]
B
Number that's going to be in place for the next 14 months because before.
- [41:05]
A
That I think a lot of importers weren't so upset about the tariff. It's they didn't know what it was going to be. And so now we know what it's going to be at least through the end of December of 2026. And I'm hoping that that brings some.
- [41:19]
B
Normalcy back into the process.
- [41:22]
A
It's an endurance game shared in some respect by the many influencers in nearby booths to keep talking, to keep the parties on the other end engaged.
- [41:33]
C
Stephen Engle, Bloomberg News Check we stay with singles day this year For Alibaba, artificial intelligence takes center stage as the company pushes out AI driven search results. Deborah Weinswig call Site Research CEO says quote, winners going forward are brands investing in AI driven personalization. The retail playbook now blends tech trust and instant gratification commerce. Deborah Weinsteg joins us now. Deborah, that report from Stephen out of mainland China, Fascinating learning about sort of the scale of the event, but we'll zero in on Alibaba and where AI is or isn't making the difference. What's your assessment about where they stand in that market which you just outlined is pretty chaotic at the moment?
- [42:21]
A
Well, first, thanks for having me on. Second, as we look at Alibaba specifically, I would say that last year they were dipping their toe in the water and this year they're, they're in kind of up to their thigh as it relates to air and the shopping experience. So starting at the very beginning, all the way through, right there are kind of the PDPs or the information behind all of the images on the website to what you bought previously is that they serve up products you are more likely to purchase. But it's all AI driven and it's highly personalized in a very short period of time. So that return rates are dropping, which is a positive because your buying more of what you want. And it's also much easier to do the research you need and that you want to do in order to find the perfect gift for your brothers or for yourself.
- [43:13]
C
Deborah, we actually had some headlines out of China cross since we came on air. Zhou Mei's single day sales exceed 29 billion yen, which if my math's correct is just slightly above 4 billion USD. That. Show me what do you make of that number and put show me success in singles day into context of what you just told us about Alibaba.
- [43:35]
A
Yeah, we've continued to hear from a lot of Western brands that their sales are exceeding expectations. And I think what they're learning from that is to think about how to bring some of those learnings back to the U.S. but this idea that the consumer can find and buy and when you think about like Shami, right. This, this idea that the consumer and this was actually one of the key areas of interest is that they call them like AI toys, but like toys have been one of the hottest categories. That and beauty. And so the Shami numbers I would say probably are a little higher than we would have expected. But that, that's the trend that we're seeing. And you know, we believe that that'll Continue to strengthen. Shami makes toys on wheels, cars, but also ones that you have in your hand. How much are you seeing at the moment, the luxury perspective, though? Because Xiaomi's been hot on the heels of a Tesla and everyone's thinking about the amount of market share that these local domestic players are now taking the world of EV and of course phones, but relatively luxurious products to be spending on. Where do you see just general consumer appetite right now? That's a great question and we've done a lot of research on this. So what we're starting to see is a, I would say a strengthening at the high end. But when it comes to, let's say, basic essentials, going back to this idea of research and how much easier it is to find product, consumers are, I would say, being increasingly frugal on everyday necessities and then looking to treat themselves. So I would say AI is helping them get smarter. But we are, I'd say probably earlier than many people expected. We are starting to see a strengthening in the high end. What are they buying in terms of wearables? And they're like, I'm seeing you're wearing an ordering. There's lots of new competitive competitors on the market here in the United States, but I can only imagine the raft of options you've got to purchase over in China right now. I mean, we're seeing really interesting things on the wearable side like bracelets and pins and whatnot. Other kind of like even health sensing, body sensing. Can you find your, your mate depending on, right. The, you know, your, your kind of the electromagnetic field that you're like. It's really, really interesting in terms of how it's, it really is their toys to make your life more fun, but also better. And I think going back to this idea around data from a health care perspective, that's increasingly important. And we're seeing it drive improve results for consumers as well.
- [46:11]
C
The data sets that you're tracking, even from this, this year's event and prior years, if you've got any assessment of like the investment these companies have to make to get a payoff, like how committed they are to winning, what you've outlined very clearly is a bit of a scramble to get consumers who are making very conscious, proactive spending choices, differences.
- [46:35]
A
So therein lies the. That is like the question of the day. And one of the biggest differences between the Western consumer and the Chinese consumer is, you know, this isn't like, you know, you're clipping coupons. Well, I guess you're clipping them but digital. And as we're seeing it go into the end of the double oven shopping season, how the couponing rate it goes back to it's adjusting in real time. So if retailers and brands aren't seeing the desired outcomes, they're able to change it in real time. Right. These aren't like marketing plans built out 6:12, 18 weeks ahead of time. And they're therein is why I think we're going to see a much stronger double 11 season than we have in the past. And those retailers, like Lululemon is in the minds of the Chinese consumer that's a local brand because they really embrace this. And they, they did have to invest, of course, early on, but now they're reaping the rewards of that investment. And so that's like Lululemon, l', Oreal, those are some just great examples of brands. Right. So European brand, a US brand, native brand, technically North American brand of companies who have invested and as a result they're seeing outsized rewards, instant gratification commerce is the line on your note. We really appreciate it. Thank you Deborah Weinstein for joining us. Course site research Coming up, Oracle co founder Larry Ellison gets more employees on his supervision after the company's CEO swap. We'll discuss what that entails next. This is Bloomberg Tech. Hiscock Small business insurance knows there is no business like your business. Across America, over 600,000 small businesses, from accountants and architects to photographers and yoga instructors, look to Hiscox Insurance for protection. Find flexible coverage that adapts to the needs of your small business. With a fast, easy online'@hiscox.com that's his c o x.com there's no business like small business. Hiscox Small Business Insurance. In business, a gift says more than thank you. It's a message that reflects your brand, your attention to detail, your values and your relationships. That's why marketers and brand leaders trust 4imprint. 4imprint offers thousands of high quality customizable products like branded drinkware, premium apparel, smart tech and more, all backed by expert support. And with their 360 degree guarantee, you can be for Imprint certain your gifts arrive on time, exactly as expected and on brand. Explore gifting with confidence@forimprint.com for imprint for certain.
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