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Deloitte Narrator
The right technology can strengthen human judgment. That's why Deloitte brings together AI and data analytics with multidisciplinary teams who can help you connect the dots across your enterprise, from risk to operations to customer needs. So opportunities don't slip by and surprises don't spread. Because the smarter your systems, the sharper your instincts. That's how technology makes people better at what they do best. Deloitte Together makes progress. Learn more@deloitte.com TogetherMakesProgress Amazon Health AI presents
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Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
painful thoughts why did I search the
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Deloitte Narrator
Internet for answers to my cold sore problem?
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Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
Now I'm stuck down a rabbit hole
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Deloitte Narrator
filled with images of alarmingly graphic sores in various stages of ooze. I can clear my search history, but
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Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
I can never unsee that.
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Amazon Health AI Announcer
Don't go down the rabbit hole. Amazon Health AI gets you the right care fast. Healthcare just got less painful.
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Deloitte Narrator
Being a small business owner isn't just a career, it's a calling. Chase for Business knows how much heart and effort go into building something of your own. Manage all your business finances, from banking to payments to credit cards, all in one place with Chase's digital tools. Plus access online resources designed to help your business thrive. Learn more@chase.com business chase for business make more of what's yours the Chase Mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply JPMorgan Chase Bank NA Member FDIC Copyright 2026 JPMorgan Chase Co.
- [01:42]
Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio news. Bloomberg Tech is live from coast to co with Caroline Hyde in New York and Ed Ludlow in San Francisco.
- [02:02]
Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
This is Bloomberg Tech Coming up, President Trump says he discussed in videos H200 chips with Xi Jinping will break down
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Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
the latest plus we speak with the CEO Figma after its earnings results defy fears that I would disrupt the design stack.
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Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
And our conversation with OpenAI CFO Sarah Fryer, who says the startup may raise more capital after completing its recent fundraising round. Carriers got the markets I have.
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Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
Let's check in on them. We're currently seeing the NASDAQ 100 actually having its worst day since March 27th at the moment and we're off by 1.3%. Look, over the course of the week it's not nearly so ugly. We're actually only down about a tenth of a percent, but on this day it is the chip stocks in particular and I'm looking at Micron on the downside. That's a key point strike. You're looking at Nvidia as well. Look this is the day in which we digest what happened over in Beijing.
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Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
Yes. And that is reflected in semiconductors in part. So the Philadelphia Semiconductor Index, or sox, is the main gauge of chip makers. Chip equipment, equipment makers is down almost 4%. You have to take into account the astonishing rally in chip stocks year to date, 70% or something prior to yesterday's close in video at one point in the session, its off session lows was down on track for its biggest decline since February, in part, as I say, because the market's digesting. What was the net outcome of the meeting between President Trump and President Xi for Nvidia and for chips? Here's President Trump talking about Nvidia's H200 chips on air Force One earlier today. As you know, Jensen was there. He's amazing at Nvidia and he would be a threat. You know, they have much higher level
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Brett Adcock, Founder and CEO of Figure
than the H200, but the H200 is good. China needs it.
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Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
And so, yeah, it came out President Trump there on Air Force One. Let's get the latest for Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall, who joins us once again from Beijing. Chips in focus for us on Bloomberg Tech. Taiwan in focus between the president and President Xi, what else do we need to take away from this historic meeting?
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Tyler Kendall, Bloomberg Correspondent in Beijing
Well, at this point, we're actually getting some breaking news on how China views how this visit went between President Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping. Chinese state media reporting moments ago that China feels that Taiwan is that number one issue for U.S. china relations. Now, President Trump and U.S. officials here on the ground maintained that the U.S. policy regarding Taiwan has not changed, though the President Trump told Fox News earlier today that he would like to see tensions cool down, in his words, between China and Taiwan. When pressed about future U.S. weapons sales, the president was also noncommittal as Congress waits for him to approve a $14 billion package that's been queued up. That was clearly the biggest point of contention amid a summit that was rather cordial. And both sides said that they were prioritizing steady stability. But we didn't really get a lot of tangibles and deliverables in terms of progress. Right. We're still waiting on some key details regarding planned commitments when it comes to purchase agreements or new investment deals, though we can confirm that Boeing officials were still here on the ground in Beijing over the last few hours, meeting with Chinese officials and what was considered a positive sign for that deal. But as you mentioned there, there was a big expectation that perhaps there could be a deal when it came to Nvidia's H200 chips as the Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang was a last min addition to the travel here to Beijing. President Trump did confirm that they spoke about the chips, but ultimately said that China wants to develop their own and that's why we haven't seen any purchases go through Ed and Caroline. The president also mentioned that the two sides did discuss the future of artificial intelligence and where we could see some collaboration in terms of guard guardrails related to the technology.
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Shari List, Vice President of Global Workforce Development Initiatives at Semi
Pretty much.
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Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
Tyler Kendall, extraordinary work throughout the past few days over in Beijing. We so appreciate it. Look, we've got to get there. For the broader chip industry perspective, what does all of this mean in terms of the United States and its ability to drive up manufacturing capacity and its workforce? Right here. Shari List is with us, is vice president of Global Workforce Development Initiatives at Semi. It's a global industry association connecting professionals worldwide across the chip and electronics design and manufacturing supply chain. It is wonderful, Shari, to have you here with us.
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Shari List, Vice President of Global Workforce Development Initiatives at Semi
Thank you so much for having me.
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Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
So if we do see tensions rise and if we do focus therefore even more on a manufacturing footprint brought back to America where chips are manufactured, they're designed, rather than being so reliant on Taiwan, are we able to do it?
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Shari List, Vice President of Global Workforce Development Initiatives at Semi
We are. I mean, I think I speak on behalf of the workforce component of all of this. It is one of the bottlenecks for this industry in the US for sure. But there are a remarkable set of programs that are being built all around the country to meet that need. The chips investments here in the US Are launching an incredible growth year for us on our soil here in this country. And we are going to need another 150 or thousand or so people in this work environment. So we're building programs all over the
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Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
country, away from the geopolitics. You know, the news of the week highlights just capacity reliance.
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Amazon Health AI Announcer
Right.
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Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
So the one thing that Taiwan's really good at is the brutal economics of semiconductor manufacturing. And talent's a key component of that. Of course, there's all this plan on paper to build more fabs, have more foundry capacity in the United States. Do we have the people with the skills to make them run and not just make them run, make them hum. Right. Brutal economics.
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Shari List, Vice President of Global Workforce Development Initiatives at Semi
Yes. I mean, I think that's what we're all trying to work towards. Absolutely. We had, we didn't have as many programs established in the US Anymore because we weren't manufacturing here. With the investments that are happening here, programs are launching all over the country. In fact, under the chips investment, there's a $200 million workforce.
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Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
This is the Chips Act. A result of the Chips Act.
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Shari List, Vice President of Global Workforce Development Initiatives at Semi
As a result of the Chips act, there is a $200 million investment in workforce through the National Science foundation, in concert with the Department of Commerce, to invest in building a national infrastructure around workforce development so that we can fund regional nodes around the country to build what's needed regionally in workforce and how to feed that into a national infrastructure.
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Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
Can I just jump in and ask? I mean, Tim Cook very famously said, didn't he, that China could fill a sports stadium with tooling engineers and that type of talent, and America would struggle to fill a meeting room. What kind of roles are we talking about here that you're trying to skill up this nation on?
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Shari List, Vice President of Global Workforce Development Initiatives at Semi
Yeah, I mean, I think we need everything across the industry, from technicians and operators to fill the fabs, to be on the fab floors, to all sorts of engineers across electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, chemical engineering, to our researchers, our PhDs. We need everybody. We need marketing talent, we need finance talent. So I think the challenge right now in the US Is actually the image and awareness of our industry with students. So we do a lot of work in the space of getting students excited or passionate about this industry or even to know it, because kids walk around all day, every day with their phone in their hand, their phones, their iPads, their computers were in cars that are driven through chips. We are using appliances, everything we use, all day long. And most people, people don't know that, parents don't all that, you know, like, it's so. It's an educating of the country.
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Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
What's been so interesting is the method by which we start to up our fabrication footprint. Now, in some ways, it's about leaning into intel, into local players, but a lot of it's been about drawing TSMC and saying, please build here in Arizona. How much in the past have we relied on sort of TSMC talent coming here? Is that a way that's been reskilled, we've learned from others, or is it really about teaching them in our own education system? System, seeing others being brought up through the STEM education perspective rather than learning from talent abroad?
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Shari List, Vice President of Global Workforce Development Initiatives at Semi
There's certainly been a mix of both, I think. We have, of course, relied on talent abroad as an industry. This is a global industry. This is a really intense, intricate, complicated industry, and we need talent from everywhere. Right, that's clear. What we're trying to do now is make sure that we can build the workforce in the US With US citizens to get us jobs and to fill all of these roles. So we are seeing still learning, of course, we're all learning from each other. We all have different strengths across the world. So, you know, hopefully we'll be able to meet those needs here in the US with all the programs that are being established.
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Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
We're out of time. But actually, Carol, I didn't even think about that. Right. What did not come out of the meeting again between the two presidents? Probably the issue of visas and talent here in Silicon Valley, San Francisco, how long has that been a story? You know, talent from China coming to universities in the world of AI, particularly in the world of AI. Charlie says it's great to have you on Bloomberg Tech. Thank you very much. Listen, guys, tune in Monday for an exclusive interview with the CEOs of Dell and Nvidia from the sidelines of Dell Technologies. World will be jenning over to Las Vegas for what is could not be a more timely conversation. Coming up, Cerebra surges in its trading debut, turning some of Silicon Valley's earliest backers into billion dollar winners. That's next. Bloomberg Tech.
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Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
We have got to check in on Cerebras. What a debut yesterday. Extraordinary. 68% higher close at one point up 89%. Unsurprisingly, there's a bit of profit taking happening today, more of by some 4.8%. Let's call it on the day as we see the rest of the industry being under some pressure across the AI and chip spectrum because of concerns about really where the US China relationship goes. But three of the chip makers earliest venture capital backers of Cerebra said Benchmark Eclipse Foundation Capital, they're poised to make billions from their bets following Cerebrus's ipo. Here for more is Bloomberg VC and startups reporter Rebecca Torrents. So how early did they back this company and what sort of rewards are they going to be able to give? LPs.
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Rebecca Torrents, Bloomberg VC and Startups Reporter
Yeah, so two of the, sorry, three of the four biggest backers in Cerebrus of their biggest outside backers came in a decade ago in 2016. They invested in Cerebrus earliest round on the order of $25 million. And they now stand to make billions of dollars each at the ipo. Benchmark is among the venture firms with the biggest stake now around 8%. And this would have, you know, this was its first hardware investment in over a decade at the time. And that big swing has really paid off for them in spades. Obviously the stock trading up massively from its IPO price of $185 per share.
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Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
Rebecca, I Don't know if you noticed yesterday, but when Andrew Feldman, the Cerebra CEO, was on the show, Leor Susan, the CEO of venture firm Eclipse, was hanging over his right shoulder. Every couple of seconds gave a little cheeky glance down into the camera lens. Eclipse, another firm, you know, regulars on this show that made a lot of money here. It's really fun reporting on this review. It's like, you know, it's a really important IPO day look. What else do we need to know? And just reflect what your week was like covering this blockbuster listing.
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Rebecca Torrents, Bloomberg VC and Startups Reporter
Absolutely. So we also learned in the days leading up to the IPO that semiconductor company AAM and its majority backer Softbank had made an attempt to acquire Cerebras in the weeks before its listing. Those offers were ultimately rebuffed. But there is huge competition in this market. There's obviously tons of interest in the private markets and now the public markets as well in chip companies and infrastructure. Eclipse and Foundation Capital, one of the other largest reverse backers. This sort of hardware, this infrastructure is very much their bread and butter. And so they've got, you know, some of the things in the pipeline sort of that follow this general theme. And certainly there are more investments being made all across stages in the private markets very much in line with this theme. So expecting to see much more activity here.
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Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
Rebecca Torrance, big week. Thank you very much. From the excitement around three Risk, his debut to the massive spending that's still ongoing at the hyperscale as investors increasingly focused on whether companies like Alphabet Matter and Amazon can justify the soaring capex with sustained revenue growth on the other side. Let's get more on that with Eric Sheridan, Goldman Sachs Co business unit leader of the technology, Media and Telecommunications group in global investment Research. Some weaker. I mean that's, that's the formula. You look at the hyperscalers, you get the capital expenditures number, we get to the end of earnings season. Nvidia reports next Wednesday, probably the largest beneficiary of that capital expenditure, if we're being honest. You sit here on a Friday morning. Eric, what's your conclusion of the week's news flow and how it impacts those bigger names that you cover?
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Eric Sheridan, Goldman Sachs Technology, Media and Telecommunications Analyst
Well, I think the main takeaways for us is that we remain in an infrastructure led cycle. So capex continues to have an upward bias, albeit the bias to the upside was more muted this quarter than it was last quarter, which we think investors generally received positively. The second element would be that the revenue backlog or the future revenue that can come from this CAPEX is now over $900 billion combined spread across both Alphabet and Amazon's cloud computing divisions. That is giving investors increased confidence that there is revenue that will follow, albeit one to three years after the capex is spent and increasing. Interestingly the margins in these cloud segments also surprised to the upside because non AI workloads are accelerating, structuring data is accelerating. So therefore the, the long term view of earning a return on a larger revenue base gave people more confidence and that's why you've seen Amazon and Alphabet over the last 13 months act very, very well as stocks as there's been a greater appreciation for that.
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Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
I mean Eric, at one point this week we wondered if Alphabet was going to eclipse in video as the world's most valuable company. And we think about that vertical integration that is just helping with this flywheel. The fact that they are able to have such prowess when it comes to TPU and the amount that they're able to gain in efficiencies and I think of Amazon actually using Cerebras share stock more broadly they've been using Cerebras hardware alongside some of their own in house chips. How are you seeing this world of benefit from using your own self made chips alongside those from others?
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Eric Sheridan, Goldman Sachs Technology, Media and Telecommunications Analyst
Custom Silicon or TPU is from Alphabet and Amazon we think continues to be one of the most underappreciated narratives in the market. Firstly, it continues to drive workloads into these cloud ecosystems so they capture more revenue overall secondarily because they design the custom silicon, they garner more of the margin by doing it. And the performance of TPU's while not quite where GPUs are on an absolute performance basis, if you measure it on price to performance, they're actually quite competitive. So this is something where you can go to your customers, offer a price to performance ratio that looks very attractive and they benefit from garnering more revenue and more incremental margins. That's another theme that we think is gaining in prominence across this landscape.
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Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
Eric, you lead the team at Goldman that is covering Amazon and Alphabet. Right. And I just, I'm just saying that's point out the obvious, that's your focus. But you must track Anthropic so closely. Both companies have significant financial interests in Anthropic. Both have some kind of kind of competition with Anthropic at the model level. In Amazon's case, bedrock is the marketplace for Claude that's very tangled as a web. How do you untangle it?
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Eric Sheridan, Goldman Sachs Technology, Media and Telecommunications Analyst
Well, I think there's a lot without getting into any one company and their relationship with another. I think the world overall is becoming more interdependent when it comes to AI. You're going to have foundational model companies that need compute. You're going to have hyperscalers that can deliver that compute. You increasingly are going to have hyperscalers who are effective partners that allow the foundational model model companies to come to market and connect with enterprises like Goldman Sachs. And there is going to be a lot of scale that benefits driving incremental growth in this landscape. The truest measure of technology computing shifts in my career has been that only a handful of companies on both the infrastructure and the platform layer earn excess returns on capital. So there's only going to be a handful of companies that are enterprise platform companies. There's only going to be a handful of companies that are consumer platform companies. And if you come back to the earlier point that you led with, which is the capital need for this entire cycle, there's only a handful of companies that have the access to capital to be able to build to this. So there is going to be an interdependence that comes from just a handful of companies that can actually build at this level of scale.
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Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
Eric Sheridan. Fascinating. Love having you on the show as always. Come back soon of Goldman Sachs now. Coming up, tensions rise between Apple, Apple and open AI. Why the AI startup is weighing possible legal action against the iPhone maker. This is Bloomberg Tech.
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Deloitte Narrator
The right technology can strengthen human judgment. That's why Deloitte brings together AI and data analytics with multidisciplinary teams. People with deep industry experience who can challenge assumptions and help you connect the dots across your enterprise. From risk signals to operational pressure points to shifting customer needs, Deloitte helps you see what's coming sooner so opportunities don't slip by and surprises don't spread. It's not just dashboards. It's real clarity in the moments your decisions are made. When models reveal patterns, people can ask better questions. When data and people are connected, leaders can move faster with confidence. And when your teams are aligned, smart choices can scale from the frontline to the C suite. Because the smarter your systems, the sharper your instincts. That's how technology makes people better at what they do best. Deloitte Together makes progress. Learn more@deloitte.com TogetherMakesProgress Amazon Health AI presents painful thoughts.
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Amazon Health AI User
I. I can't stop scratching my downtown.
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Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
Mm. Yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here
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Amazon Health AI User
to talk about my downtown. Some things you'd rather type than say out loud.
- [21:00]
Amazon Health AI Announcer
There's no question too embarrassing for Amazon Health. AI chat your symptoms and get virtual care 24. 7 Healthcare just got less painful.
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Amazon Health AI User
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Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
it is time now for talking tech. And first up, Samsung Management is making a rare 11th hour visit to union leaders to avert a massive chip factory strike. The world's top memory maker is facing an 18 day walkout that could cost the company $700 million a day and could stall critical AI chip production. Plus, Bill Ackman's Pershing Square has taken a new core stake in Microsoft, with Ackman arguing that the market is underestimating the tech giant Resilience. Now the move comes as Microsoft continues its aggressive push into AI, reclaiming its status in Magnus Portfolio. And Elon Musk's X AI is officially entering the coding agent race with the launch of Grok Build in an attempt to catch up with Anthropics. Claude Musk is racing to close that gap in the developer market. Its coding agents become the next multibillion dollar frontier in AI.
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Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
And let's chat about OpenAI. You sat down with CFO Sarah Fryer last night and she you had the opportunity to basically say good timing. Sam Altman's underway in a very big case against Elon Musk. And then there's the breaking news last night about Apple and the relationship falling apart. Just reflect on it.
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Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
I mean an extraordinary, not saying planned timing though. A joy bounce. Plenty of news when you're sitting down with a key executive. And Sarah Fry is very clear about what she needs at the moment. She needs money for compute. That continues more than $120 billion of it. And she's got plenty of optionality. We talked about her relationship with some Altman. What was so interesting is she's saying, look, if you want your CEO and CFO to be, you know, always agreeing on absolutely everything, you're sort of getting the wrong steer here. That shouldn't be how it works. But they have a really good working relationship. She was just in California at his ranch on the weekend because they're working extra time on things like compute here is a close relationship, but yes, at times they have to disagree. So that was an interesting discussion, particularly when we've had Sam Altman's own sort of way in which he presents himself and the build in the business being under the coals and under the limelight, I think was notable. I asked her about the Open Air and Apple relationship and of course she couldn't comment. But this is a company that depends on partnerships to get their technology into people's hands. Apple is key for ChatGPT, but it was meant to be better integrated into the overall Apple intelligence experience.
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Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
We're going to get the detail on that. Just a sec. We're going to hear more from Carol's conversation with Sarah Fryer later this hour. Stick around for that. Here's the details. Apple and OpenAI's relationship is fraying OpenAI is weighing possible legal action against the iPhone maker, arguing it hasn't seen the expected benefits from the part of the partnership. And it's Apple's use of its technology remains limited and hard for users to find. This get out to Bloomberg Senior Tech Editor Dana Wollman. Incredibly detailed report from the team, I suppose. What was that agreement initially?
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Dana Wollman, Bloomberg Senior Tech Editor
So the two companies teamed up and really OpenAI saw this as an opportunity to, as you said, get its product as big of a name as it is in front of even more people. Apple's huge user base. So OpenAI's technology would be built into Apple's platforms. And for a lot of users, especially users who are perhaps less tech savvy, it might have been their first exposure to OpenAI's technology. And OpenAI was hoping that this would result in billions of dollars worth annually in new subscribers.
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Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
Let's talk about whether or not they have to be forced to some legal action to get recompense here. But more broadly, it's a time where Apple's own Apple intelligence is not working as they hope. They're having to bend on Google to help build Siri. More broadly, are they just having to go to more players in the ecosystem?
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Dana Wollman, Bloomberg Senior Tech Editor
I'm sorry, can you repeat the question? I don't know if I fully heard you.
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Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
How are we thinking about Apple's own dependence on other offerings for its own Apple intelligence? That isn't working.
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Dana Wollman, Bloomberg Senior Tech Editor
So Apple is going to be opening up its own platforms to other developers as well, which surely is not helping with the dynamic with OpenAI. Something that mark Gurman mentioned in his report. That said, and this has come up in other of Bloomberg Technology's reports as well, is that Apple is sort of benefiting from the investment that all of these other AI developers have invested over the years in AI. Now it's getting to sort of integrate this menu of different increasingly advanced tools as you said, as it continues to build out its own much delayed product
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Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
of its own data. Wolman, we so appreciate you. Thank you for coming on regarding OpenAI and Apple. Coming right up. We're discussing AI in another area. Figma IT is flipping the script on the disruption narrative. CEO Dylan Fields joining us next after earnings were a blowout. Much better than expected and so much for that disruption. There's a Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech and we got to focus in on the company Figma IT is defying those fears that I would disrupt the design stack. The company just reported a massive first quarter. With revenue growth accelerating to 46% it successfully begins to monetize new AI features. Joining us now, Figma Founder CEO Dylan Field. Dylan look there has been many, many a question on software providers about the disruption that will come from the likes of large language model frontier makers, anthropic being one. What is driving your revenue growth and the ability to exceed guidance as well.
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Dylan Field, CEO of Figma
Well first of all thank you for having me and good to see you and yeah strong quarter. We had revenue accelerate 46% year over year and our net dollar retention for customers that were over 10k of air is now at 139% and also strong cash flow with non GAAP margin of 16% in the quarter and free cash flow of 27%. We also raised our guidance so we're very glad with the result results and I think in terms of taking a step back around what is behind the core the quarter and also the moment you're mentioning as AI commodities code and makes it so that code is easier than ever to write. You know the layer above code as that gets commoditized is fine.
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Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
I got an audience question for you on that in just a moment but for me like I don't what you would call it like the credit caps or the way you charge on usage was so fascinating. So in March you started charging customers a fee to use AI in particular beyond a certain limit. And the responses varied. Right when people hit that cap, many were willing to pay for like more credits. There was some drop off though. Like a small group was saying, well if that's the case, I won't use a Figma product anymore more. Where do you see that netting out?
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Dylan Field, CEO of Figma
Well, we have many products and you're always welcome to, you know, as a free user, use one of our free surfaces or as a paid user of the seat, use our traditional design tool. But yes, if you want to use the product we have Figma make, we want to use features in Figma design. What we did was we essentially added some number of free credits to paid seats to make sure that people had a way to try these features out. And then we also made it so that if you want to buy additional credits, you can. And for a long time we actually made it, said everything was free. But you know, that's not exactly the move for business. Do that forever. And we also think weave and weave is extremely exciting. And with weave, what you can do is essentially create a work flow which is a through node based editing tool where you connect up different outputs from models, think images, videos, 3D models and more. And then you can push them through a workflow so that you're able to really mold those model outputs like clay. So for example, nbj, a architecture firm, one of the customers who mentioned call, they used to do these very extensive customer shoots where they would go out to site and they would really understand what is the different lighting at different times. And they would then superimpose the 3D model of the building. And with figma weave they can do that all in a workflow where they can just really easily control all sorts of different parameters and it saves them a ton of time and gets better results for the client. So that's another one where we also see friendship kicking in and you bring
- [31:03]
Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
real anecdotal evidence to bear. And the anecdotal evidence we hear is like if you ever try and strip away Figma from those that use it within the workforce, they'll up and leave. Employees will like march out the building because they so love the product. But how do you then fight this narrative that investors just want to sell first, ask questions later and has put your stock under pressure, pressure since the ipo.
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Dylan Field, CEO of Figma
I mean, I think we control the inputs and we need to deliver for our customers, simple as that. And so we're working very Hard always on making sure that we're doing the right thing for the long term. And I think that the long term is thankfully aligned with our strategy. We're in the best position we think
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Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
we possibly can be.
- [31:51]
Dylan Field, CEO of Figma
And, you know, design is becoming more important than ever. And I think that one area, when it comes to maybe the market or the world, as we're seeing design go more broad in these companies and also be more appreciated as the way that you win, but also you break through a very competitive information landscape, you have to really teach people what design is. It's not just, you know, creating something that, you know, you think is beautiful because, you know, many people have different aesthetics. It's how it works. It's ux, it's forms function.
- [32:24]
Brett Adcock, Founder and CEO of Figure
Yeah.
- [32:25]
Dylan Field, CEO of Figma
And we have to, I think, really help people understand the many different facets of design. And in figma, design is not always just, you know, how it looks, how it works. It's also the thinking process out there and I think in this world.
- [32:40]
Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
And yes, sorry, I don't mean to cut you off, we're running out of time and I want to get that audience question to you because as you know, I think it's really important. Regular of the show, Ben, how do you see inference and token costs affecting your margins going forward? You kind of alluded to it earlier.
- [32:56]
Dylan Field, CEO of Figma
Yeah. We talked about in our earnings call yesterday and how if we see an opportunity to go really big and have a ton of growth, we will take it and we will push hard. But I think there's a short term, there's the long term and sometimes there's ways to push hard on short term and that might create downward pressure in margins. But if you're going for a massive TAM in the long term, I think that's the right move in what our investors should be cheering us on to do. And the TAM is very large, both for design, for sculpting, you know, advertising, marketing, and breaking through noise. And I think that in general, if we're able to deliver on that and able to win this increasingly competitive landscape which is growing so fast of design, when it's the new code, I think that puts us in an amazing position for the future. So very excited to bring more people into the design process. That's what we're seeing with our customers. It's not just designers, it's many others. Well, but also level them up on design.
- [34:01]
Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
Figma CEO didn't feel back on Bloomberg Tech. Thank you very much for joining us. Now coming up, figure is putting their humanoid robots out of the lab and onto the livestream. CEO Brett with us. Next, this is Bloomberg Tech.
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Amazon Health AI Announcer
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Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
I can't stop scratching my downtown. Yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here
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Amazon Health AI User
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My Policy Advocate Announcer
for peace of mind, but every year millions of claims are denied. Not because people did anything wrong, but because their policies quietly excluded what happened. Insurers know every detail. Policyholders rarely do. That's why my policy advocate exists. For just 27 cents a day, their platform reads your policies and explains where you are vulnerable. They don't sell insurance, they deliver transparency. Before you trust your policy to protect you, let my policy advocate tell you what it really says. Go to mypolicyadvocate.com figure says its humanoid
- [36:23]
Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
robots just completed more than 24 hours of continuous package sorting autonomously. A livestream watched by millions across YouTube and X3F O3 robots worked in shifts, scanning, flipping, sorting packages at roughly human speed. All powered by its in house AI software running directly on board the robots. But that demonstration did spark some skepticism. Was it real? Joining us now is Brett Adcock, Founder CEO. Figure that's where we start. You can say Brett definitively over the 24 hours or more there was no telly operation. A lot of people in the comments, as you know, pointed to the idea, and I think we have video of it, that the three on shift kept Gesturing to the head, which is a telltale sign in robotics of teleoperation operation. Your pledge that there was none.
- [37:14]
Brett Adcock, Founder and CEO of Figure
There's absolutely no teleoperation into this. The robots are all operating fully autonomously using an onboard neural network we designed called Helix 2. Sometimes when the robot takes a turn to left to grab packages, it moves its left hand out of the way upwards. You'll see this behavior happen every single time the robot turns for packages. But we've been running autonomously now for close to 50 hours. The robot's operating shifts, there's been basically almost no downtime on the belt. We've pushed over close to 60,000 packages. And we're just going to keep going now and see how far this can go.
- [37:50]
Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
So this was live streamed, right? And that was one reason I really wanted to come on the program because there's the bit people don't see what's happening behind the scenes. Like in shift changes, where does the robot go? Like, does it need maintenance?
- [38:06]
Brett Adcock, Founder and CEO of Figure
For the most part the robots operate on a four hour battery life. After the battery is low, the robot messages another robot to come out to take its place. The robots didn't do a swap there about this, just left. The conveyor system is going to go charge wirelessly on the stand while the other robot continues to do work. If there are issues, say we have a hardware software issues, the robots can basically walk off into maintenance and call another robot to take its place. The goal is to be able to enlist it 247 operations with basically no like, no failures on the, on the use case itself, which we haven't had today. So the robots, the, basically the conveyor system has been running 247 since middle of this week. I think we're now, we're approaching 50 hours of just full, like every single hour since, since we've launched, the robots have been basically I have been doing work now on this line which I think is like wow. Which I think is crazy. You know, figure wants to build like, you know, we want to build like iRobot. You know, we want robots everywhere in the world, in the commercial market. Like this is like the first large step to doing that.
- [39:11]
Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
Okay, so what's harder now? Robots getting faster or making them even more reliable? Because the moment you seem to be doing both,
- [39:20]
Brett Adcock, Founder and CEO of Figure
the robot that you're seeing here is, is roughly operating around human speech about three seconds a package. That, that's, that's the requirement to operate on this logistics line. So we're at like, we're at human parity and speed. The Goal is also to have like 90% success rate on the bar. The package flips for barcode scanning. We're, we're in that as well in that requirement. The robots are also like getting extremely reliable. Like part of this whole process of running this 24,7 with no downtime is to show how reliable humanoid robots are. And four years ago when I started the company, humanoid robots were falling. They were extremely unreliable systems. We've designed the systems and engineered this now to a point where the robots are extremely reliable. I think we're showing that now in the livestream to the entire world. The big focus for us is like how do we solve for a truly general purpose machine and then how do we manufacture unprecedented volumes similar to cell phones today? So like so, so this week Barq, our manufacturing facility will manufacture anywhere between like 60 and 70 humanoid robots. Just this week.
- [40:25]
Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
Right.
- [40:25]
Brett Adcock, Founder and CEO of Figure
And we do it right next door on, on the figure campus.
- [40:29]
Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
So I want to get into the idea. This is Full Stack. I've been hearing a lot growing speculation that open I could get back into robotics. And you have a history right where you had a partnership, you decided on the software side you could do better yourself. You know, what do you make of that? That idea that ultimately a big party is going to want to own the entire stack that powers the humanoid robot.
- [40:55]
Brett Adcock, Founder and CEO of Figure
To really do this right, like if we want to really build like iRobot like the movie.
- [41:00]
Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
Yes.
- [41:01]
Brett Adcock, Founder and CEO of Figure
You know, we basically you have to design the entire hardware system almost yourself. Like motors, like stator rotors, all the electromagnetics work. Like you have to do all the battery systems work, you have to do all the actuator design, sensor design, kinematics like structures like which we do all in house. Now here at figure, we also manufacture the robots. So we're like. And then we also test them and we do all the data collection and all the AI neural net training ourselves here in house. So basically this is at a full end to end vertically integrated system that we now have out doing real use case work like humans do. And we can do this at human speeds. And we're doing this now for like, you know, this example. Most of these shifts run like just eight hours a day. We're doing this like 24, seven just to show how reliable the systems are and how like mission ready these things are to get out at scale. So anyway, to solve this you have to have like a truly vertically integrated graded approach from top to bottom.
- [42:02]
Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
What about the bottlenecks for you? Is it now money? Do you want to go public Brett, what is, what are you needing to get this out?
- [42:08]
Brett Adcock, Founder and CEO of Figure
More broadly, our largest two bottlenecks are like data for pre training, our Helix Neural Net and in manufacturing. We're spinning up manufacturing here. Our manufacturing facility is called Baku. We've, we're now doing, we're now of several thousands of run rate annually production that is continuing to scale up. You know, I think on the data side we're collecting and training kind of unprecedented models for like our stack here internally that we've ever done. So I think we're like, we're. And we have, you know, we have well over $1 billion of cash in the balance sheet today. So I think from a, from a financial perspective, we're in a good spot. We're manufacturing at pretty much unprecedented volumes for ourselves and we're, we're building like next generation AI models that I think are, to be honest, are just completely mind blowing. And so the goal is like, the goal is to solve the data problem, the manufacturing problem, to get humanoid robots
- [43:09]
Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
out of scale and maybe come up with even more names for these robots currently getting them from online fans, I think one school, Bob and Gary.
- [43:17]
Shari List, Vice President of Global Workforce Development Initiatives at Semi
Sorry.
- [43:17]
Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
Brett Gadcock, we so appreciate your time today. Founder and CEO of Figure. Now let's turn our attention to Andy Jassy, who was once Jeff Bezos, his deputy, remember? Now, five years into his tenure as CEO, Jassy is steering the company through some of its greatest changes. That's the focus of today's Big Takes. Matt Day joins us with more. You went to see sort of the new real focus point for Andy Jassy, its data centers. And this is a company that is now just scaling so much in a vertically integrated manner. Matt, what did you learn from visiting the hubs and what it says about
- [43:50]
Amazon Health AI Announcer
Andy, it says that there's just such sprawl to Amazon these days. You think you know Amazon from the packages showing up at your doorstep. So much of what they're spending money on its data centers. It's a supply chain behind data centers. That means chips, that means hardware engineering, that means software. At the large language model level, they're really just all over the place. And it's kind of an unfathomable sort of things they got going on. And really the sort of single organizational principle behind it is, is Andy at the top of it. He's making all these calls on where they got to shift money with pulling stuff out of what they're putting into. It's really, really an impressive machine.
- [44:20]
Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
So Matt, knowing that he's watching right Now Andy Jassy is glued to Bloomberg Tech. There is a good chance that's true. What do we learn about him as the Amazon CEO versus Jeff? Like you and I have talked about this in the past, but what's different about him? Does he lean, lean hard into the thing?
- [44:37]
Amazon Health AI Announcer
You definitely did. And if you look at where their bets are today, you know a lot of them are in what can Amazon do uniquely and what can they do differently when it comes to their core retail business? They've left some opportunities on the table there. That's not the case in AI. They want to be everywhere in AI, they want to sprinkle AI through all of their product lines and that is where they're spending a ton of their, their capex right now. So he's definitely brought some of that AWS pedigree with him. We've also just learned learned he is, he is an extreme detail guy. It's not that that was not a Jeff Bezos trade, but for the last few years of his leadership at Amazon, Jeff was checked out in some parts of the business. You know, Andy hasn't let go of anything since he showed up. He's, he's all over the details of this business.
- [45:14]
Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
The most day with the big take on Andy Jassy era at US and Amazon must be coming up. Arguments in the trial between OpenAI and Elon Musk wrapped up yesterday. Today we're going to get to the latest and some more of the conversation we've been having with OpenAI the past 24 hours. This is Bloomberg Tech.
- [45:40]
Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
Opening eyes. Chief Financial Officer Sarah Fryer talked about the demand the company is seeing and the compute needs it's up against. She sat down with me at the Conselo Spark Summit in Napa. Take a listen.
- [45:51]
Sarah Fryer, CFO of OpenAI
Compute itself has clearly been a bottleneck. I don't think any of us, even Sam and Greg, who I think were incredibly prescient overall in terms of the need for compute. I don't think they could have foreseen just the sheer demand that we have right now in 2026 and so that it's the energy that sits behind it. We're seeing memory out of Southeast Asia, but there's all of these choke points in the supply chain and this is why it behooves us to get ahead of that strike those partnerships earlier when people are maybe not seeing just the sheer scale.
- [46:23]
Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
Let's talk about partnership and about some of the people you just talked about. Greg Brockman and Sam Altman. They've had a tough week in Terms of being in trial, having their relationships sort of cast into the limelight. What is it like working with Sam? There's been some questioning as to how you work alongside him. Do you work well? Is it a strong bond? Is he trustworthy as it seems he's been grilled by certain lawyers of Elon Musk this week.
- [46:51]
Sarah Fryer, CFO of OpenAI
So I think Mr. Musk is very much out to just distract and we are just staying the course, like building our technology, putting it into customers hands and really creating AGI for the benefit of humanity. Working with Sam is great. We get on incredibly well. I think we have a wonderful partnership, super good yin and yang. Sam pushes, he's super curious. My job is to take that curiosity and create optionality. So just as we talked about whether it's making sure we have enough compute, making sure we have the funds to do it, making sure we build the business strongly. And I spend an inordinate amount of time with customers as does Sam. And we get to compare a lot of notes on that front as well as sometimes our notes on parenting. So it goes the whole gamut, frankly.
- [47:34]
Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
OpenAI CFO Sarah Fry speaking with Caroline about her relationship with the company's CEO, Sam Altman. The relationships and choices of OpenAI's founders have been front and center of the lawsuit brought by Elon Musk over the charitable status of the company. Arguments in the trial wrapped up yesterday. Bloomberg's Madeline Meckleburg has been there every step of the way. And so this is where we're at closing arguments. We wait for, I think, jury deliberation Monday. Give us everything that we need to know at this point.
- [48:04]
Madeline Meckleburg, Bloomberg Legal Reporter
That's right. I think one thing that we learned from closing arguments, it's really relevant to the conversation you just had with Sarah, is that this case for both parties really boils down to credibility. That's the message that they left jurors with on Thursday when they had closing arguments. Musk's attorneys are trying to cast Sam Altman as someone who's deceptive, who's untrustworthy. Meanwhile, lawyers for OpenAI were trying to point to the evidence that's been presented so far in the case saying Musk's story doesn't add up with what we've seen in the documents, what you've heard from witnesses. And so now it's up to the jury to decide whose version of events they believe about this saga of the formation of OpenAI, the dissolution of this relationship and the transition into rivalry between Musk and all Altman that we see playing out today.
- [48:54]
Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
What happens if Musk wins?
- [48:58]
Madeline Meckleburg, Bloomberg Legal Reporter
That's a big question. So at this point, the jury is going to start deliberating and they're going to issue a verdict that's advisory. So it's a non binding recommendation to the judge in this case who's going to have the final say on whether or not Musk has done enough to prove his claims here. And Musk is asking for a lot of he's asking for $134 billion in damages that he says he's going to donate to the OpenAI Foundation. He's asking for Altman and Brockman to be removed from their jobs. And he's asking for the OpenAI company that's been formed to be transitioned back to a nonprofit. These are huge asks the judge is also going to hear arguments on Wednesday about which one of those might be realistic. And we're just going to kind of have to wait and see how she comes down on the main question before we get to that. But the stakes are huge and existential essentially.
- [49:48]
Bloomberg Tech Host (possibly Caroline Hyde or Ed Ludlow)
For Open Air, Bloomberg's Madeleine Meckleback. Fascinating. Thank you. I mean, we wait with bated breath for the rest of the week and what indeed happens in that court case but feels about some confidence.
- [50:00]
Bloomberg Tech Reporter/Analyst (possibly Ed Ludlow)
Well, this part about it is that court case happened in the context of the week. All the other news flow and it's almost kind of, I don't want to say buried, but we do wait for it. That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech on Monday, speaking with the CEOs of Dell and Nvidia 2:30pm Eastern, 11:30am Pacific. You do not want to miss it. Check out the pod for the recap. What a week this is. Bloomberg Tech.
- [50:25]
My Policy Advocate Announcer
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Brett Adcock, Founder and CEO of Figure
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