Lauren Grosch (Space Reporter) (4:38)

Why? I don't believe I know the cause of it yet, but these holds are fairly common when we do these New Shepard launches, though they used to happen with a lot of frequency, which would be a bit frustrating for us as we were waiting for the countdown to reach zero. So this is pretty standard. I know that earlier this morning they had pushed back the launch because of high winds over the launch site. That's a pretty common reason that they will delay. So I believe the hosts might come on and give some indication as to what is causing the hold. But at this Moment, I don't.

Host/Anchor (5:14)

Think I currently know the Federal Aviation Administration. The FAA has a plan advisory which suggests, look, a backup opportunity is available. We understand, as soon as tomorrow, if indeed this one is postponed. Chad, we go to you of Space Capital, widely known investor, thought leader in the world of space and its ecosystem. How important is that? Blue Origin can seem resilient and purposeful with the way in which it gets its 37th launch off the.

Chad Anderson (Space Capital CEO) (5:41)

Ground. Well, this is great for them. I mean, they have a very solid track record of launching these New Shepard vehicles, launching them to the edge of space, delivering humans and experiments safely and bringing them back down. Like you said, this a really interesting vehicle that has helped set the stage for their larger vehicle, New Glenn, which we've seen come online this year. That was one of the big milestones in 2025, was to see New Glenn not only launch once, but they launched twice successfully. And then they landed their vehicle, becoming the, you know, the second company, the second launch vehicle ever to land and have, you know, now they're looking to reuse that vehicle in a similar manner to what SpaceX has been doing. So, you know, so this is a really important sort of test vehicle them as they scale up and then they use New Glenn, you know, their larger vehicle to scale up and do more things across their lunar ambitions, their space station ambitions and data center ambitions. And so this is a very ambitious company that all sort of started with this new shepherd vehicle. For me, it's a very interesting launch today because it kind of demonstrates how accessible spaceflight has become where it used to be, reserved only for the best of us, you know, the select few who were lucky enough to sort of get selected by NASA or ESA and go through the program and become government astronauts. You know, now you can, you know, you mentioned 80 individuals across 16 flights, right. You probably know someone or you're 2 degrees removed from someone who has flown to space now. And we're launching all different kinds of people, including people with different accessibility needs. And so, you know, this is a, this is a big moment for.

Host/Anchor (7:27)

Me for those reasons, Lauren, we talk about that ambition, many talking about the datacenter opportunity. We were just having you on yesterday to discuss how Eric Schmidt has become CEO of a space company as well. Give us the context of how fast and furious it is to ensure there isn't just one monopoly here when it comes to rockets into.

Lauren Grosch (Space Reporter) (7:44)

Space. Well, I mean, I think the, the thing we are demonstrating with companies like Blue Origin, Space X Relativity, as we mentioned, all sorts of commercial companies is that there is quite a very vibrant and diverse space economy. And clearly everyone is looking for what is going to be the next big thing that provides that big profit that everyone is looking for. I think over time we've kind of questioned whether launch alone is enough to sustain these companies. And I think we've seen, seen that, you know, when it comes to their business portfolio. It, you know, that is why when the likes of Blue Origin, Space X, a lot of these launch companies do more than just launch, because I don't think it's launch alone doesn't seem like it's enough to sustain the business. So we see them building satellites, you know, talking about space stations, launching people. And so data centers seems to be this next big thing that I think a lot of these entrepreneurs think might actually be kind of the, you know, the space gold mine, as it.

Host/Anchor (8:46)

Were. We're just seeing pictures of William Shatner when he was the eldest person to go to space on Blue Origin there. Chad, just lastly to you, at this moment, when we think pushing forward, what is New Glenn rocket expected to achieve, how much more resilience do we need to see for the larger rocket in.

Chad Anderson (Space Capital CEO) (9:02)

2026? Well, they're off to a fantastic start where Space X goes out and is, is known for trying and testing and running their test programs very visibly in public. You know, all of the mishaps and the learnings and everything. And we get to Bezos and Blue Origin has gone the exact opposite route, right? They have done a ton of testing before they launch. And so that's why we've seen the first two launches of that vehicle be successful and the second one even landing successfully. So, you know, if 2025 was the year of launch frequency, and it was, I mean, we, we were launching orbital rockets almost every single day, sometimes multiple times per day. If that was the case, then 2026 is going to be the year of the mass to orbit. We have massive new vehicles coming online. SpaceX, a Starship, blue Origin's new Glenn. And they've, they've announced a larger variant that is similar in size to starships. We have two massive vehicles that are going to launch an enormous amount of mass and enable more and different types of infrastructure, like orbital data centers, like space stations and manufacturing facilities. And it opens up an entirely new sort of piece of the market that didn't make economic sense before. So, so it's a really interesting foundation for what I think is going to be a fantastic and massive 2026 in the space.

Host/Anchor (10:24)

Economy. Important year for a new NASA chief as well. He recently just got Senate approval as recently as yesterday. That of course being Jared Isaac man to lead the space NASA Bloomberg's Lauren Grosch, Chad Anderson the Space Capital Pleased to say we'll be sticking around as this launch happens. Stick with us. There's more to come. This is Bloomberg.

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Host/Anchor (13:39)

AI. Let's give you a quick check on these markets. We're in rally mode. We have relief beset the market as inflation pressures come down some and that CPI reading showing a lot less than the market had anticipated. But we're also seeing individual stocks on a tear, maybe a little bit of exuberance again on the day. We're seeing in video, Microsoft, Amazon, Tesla, some of your biggest points contributors as is micron up 11%. It's actually not at a record high, but it is having its best day since April as it managed to really ease concerns when it comes to high bandwidth memory demand and indeed demand across the board for memory chips in this new AI world. Let's talk about it all, Bloomberg's equity reporter Carmen Reineke who joins us now. And we needed a bit of soothing the anxieties and Micron.

Lauren Grosch (Space Reporter) (14:30)

Delivers. Yeah, totally. And this was actually really great because there was some anxiety building around this trade. We've seen this for a while, but following specifically Broadcom and Oracle's reports last week and then some of the news we saw yesterday that weighed on Oracle as well. So investors were very happy to see Micron do so. Well, as you said, shares are up 11% and it's also lifting some of the other digital storage and memory stocks. So we're seeing Sandisk, Western Digital, Seagate, all on the top performers board today on the S&P 500 and we're seeing a little bit of enthusiasm come back into that AI trade. So Nvidia, Microsoft, Amazon, Metta finally back in the green Nvidia, especially after the sell off.

Host/Anchor (15:09)

Yesterday. What's interesting is that I mean the only laggards are Dell, hp, these those that depend on memory as part of their own supply chain and of course the prices go higher. That's hard for their margins. But really Micron showing that it can deliver in terms of price increases that we're seeing also over at Samsung and high SK.

Lauren Grosch (Space Reporter) (15:29)

Hynix. Yeah, it's totally true and you're right, the Apple is lagging today, so is hp, so is Dell. I think what we're really starting to see is that the trade trade is still going but it's becoming, I think more and more company specific. Right. Investors are really rewarding the shares of companies that do deliver and are showing that they can do well, that they have future growth and are much more cautious on the stocks of companies that don't or that stumble at all. And you know this can change quarter to quarter. I mean we just saw that with Oracle. So it's really a story that just continues to.

Host/Anchor (16:02)

Unfold. Carmen Reineke always unfolding it for us. We appreciate it. Let's get more of the broader tech context. Janet Mui is here with us. RBC Bruin Dolphin Head of Market Analysis and look, we saw really strong revenue growth from Micron. The fundamentals clearly outperforming. Is that what we need? We need earnings proof points right.

Janet Mui (RBC Head of Market Analysis) (16:21)

Now. Hi Caroline. Yes, absolutely. I think investors are being more picky in general. I think as the AI trend continues to accelerate, I think we need solid evidence that it is actually delivering commercial benefits, broadening its application and of course delivering earnings. And I think that that is really the primary thing that investors are going to focus increasingly in 2026, basically going to be much more selective and also being cautious on anything that is leverage.

Host/Anchor (16:59)

Related. So do you think there's more pain to come for those like an Oracle that have to spend significant amounts to be able to build up the infrastructure.

Janet Mui (RBC Head of Market Analysis) (17:09)

Needs? I think there will be certainly increasing scrutiny because the thing is if you look at the commercial commitment of Oracle, it stretches along decades and we know that although you kind of see that the demand is very strong, you, you just can't actually confidently predict the future. Right. And also of course is profitability and I think the key question is it is really the amount of debt that is fueling this infrastructure, particularly for Oracle. I think for hyperscalers or companies that have abundant cash flow, a strong balance sheet that would be less of a problem. But I think a lot of those pain has been released after the share price decline from Oracle. So hopefully we are setting for a better stage from.

Host/Anchor (18:00)

Here. What's been interesting is the desire with which to sell companies that have significant exposure to say an open air and there's been this generalization really out there that you've been buying the Google winners, Alphabet winners instead. Is that trade still on? Are we seeing actually that, that you can have exposure to OpenAI? Look, Amazon with another seemingly circular deal where they give equity to open AI so that it can afford its cloud and compute in the.

Janet Mui (RBC Head of Market Analysis) (18:25)

Future. Well, I think the thing is the market for air is, is huge, right? Is expected to keep growing, keep accelerating. So there isn't necessarily just going to be one winner out There like one software, one model that is going to conquer everything. So there's this competition between Germany and OpenAI which worries investors because Germany seems to be getting a lot of accolade recently. But you know, I think the market is just very, very broad. So in general I think it is normal for investors to to get a little bit worried in the near term. But I believe that ultimately there will be multiple winners and they are likely to be those large in scale and has which is already being on building on very strong existing.

Host/Anchor (19:20)

Foundations. John, your view on breadth because there hasn't been much in 2025 and you can rack up almost like 40% of all the gains of certain indices are down to one particular name or a sprinkling of them. For the broadening to happen do we have to see valuations fall for some of the previous winners or can they remain elevated and others continue to run up.

Janet Mui (RBC Head of Market Analysis) (19:40)

Alongside? I think I think is the latter case. I do think that investors are willing to pay a higher premium for these strong leaders. It can continue as long as they continue to deliver strong growth. And I think the broadening our story we have seen that recently and I think a lot is because of the Fed's upward revision to growth forecast. So we really need to see the economy continue to stay strong or at least resilient and also having some more rate cuts from here. So I think another case is that we may see broadening out in terms of the productivity story. If that happens we see more evidence of that then it could it could keep the rally in the swan it caps.

Host/Anchor (20:32)

Going. Yeah. What about us being the only game in town or broadening out more into Asia? We just referenced Samsung SK Hynix as big winners and high bandwidth.

Janet Mui (RBC Head of Market Analysis) (20:42)

Memory. Yeah, we have a slight overweight position in Asia equities and probably that's based on the story is also as you're right is more diversification away or in addition to that US story I think Asia got some really great and important important names in that ecosystem which is worth looking. And I think the other thing about diversification is that we are constructive on the story. But you know, as investors is good to think about diversification in your portfolio and I think UK actually offers good diversification because the market has very little intact. It's more defensive in nature and the valuations remain attractive. So if you think from a total portfolio perspective having that UK exposure actually help to balance that out that.

Host/Anchor (21:32)

Exposure. Janet, how many calls are you getting from clients who want exposure more to the private markets and private assets the 16 trillion out there, rather than just the public market.

Janet Mui (RBC Head of Market Analysis) (21:42)

Exposure. Yeah, that's interesting. So I think currently there are interest, of course, but I think for us mostly is still in the public market space, but we're certainly looking more into that.

Host/Anchor (21:59)

Space. Janet Muir of RBC Brewing Dolphin, thank you very much indeed. Private tech firms, they are commanding record valuations, particularly as some of the biggest names in AI stay private for longer. Now, according to Patrick McGoldrick, managing partner at JP Morgan Private Capital, this is leading to perhaps a bit of a blurring of boundaries between the public and private markets. Please say Patrick joins us now. So talk to us about that blurring. How much are investors institutional? Anyone really wanting to get more exposure to the private markets right.

Patrick McGoldrick (JP Morgan Private Capital) (22:33)

Now? I think it's a core theme that we're seeing across asset classes, both in the equity market and the credit markets, of course. But as it relates to the equity lens, companies are staying private a lot longer. It's well understood, from 1997 being five years on average and $20 million of sales to 2025 where it's 220 million of sales and 14 years of being a private company. But the demand is there, the depth of the private markets is there. I think the growth we're seeing is fueled by great innovation in the, in the private markets. And so it's a theme that we're excited about. It's something that we think we're well positioned for as a firm and excited to see what the year ahead.

Host/Anchor (23:09)

Brings. I mean, look, a positioning is showing up in these valuations. $134 billion valuation for Databricks in an almost unheard of Series L. I mean, is that the depth in the public markets to support the ambitions of these CEOs and the need for capital to continue to.

Patrick McGoldrick (JP Morgan Private Capital) (23:25)

Expand? I think it's a really important question. I'm glad you asked because inherent in every valuation, of course, is is it supported by the fundamentals. Ali and the databricks management team have done an exceptional job of positioning themselves effectively for the wave, making sure that data and that infrastructure layer is well supported and that they're the market leader and it shows up in the metrics. They're growing two times the rate of public high growth SaaS, comps. They're positioned effectively with net expansion rates of 140%. There are no public companies in the software space growing at that level. So I think that drives the valuation, it drives the demand for the company. They've also been aggressive in their pursuit of assets on the acquisition side. That have effectively positioned them. So to us, it was a privilege to co lead the financing. We think the public markets will view this as one of the premier darling assets in the private markets. And so when they go public, it will be an exciting moment for the company and certainly for.

Host/Anchor (24:19)

Us. There's a few other darling assets out there. One of them, as reported by the Information, is currently fundraising at a $750 billion valuation. That's open air. That's in your portfolio too. Are they.

Patrick McGoldrick (JP Morgan Private Capital) (24:29)

Fundraising? So I will let the company speak for themselves on that. I would say we're very proud and excited investors to be backing open. I think Sam and his team, time and time again, despite a little bit of the negative news or the challenges associated with it, have demonstrated an ability to innovate in the product side, to form formidable partnerships. I mean, Disney and you know what they're doing there, as well as the partnerships with universities across the countries are emblematic of of that. It's not the first time that there's been a little bit of that focus and intensity of product market fit for them. And so to us, we think it's a great asset. We're excited to be investors in it and they continue to be synonymous with growth in large language model space. And so I'll leave it at that. But certainly an exciting journey for the.

Host/Anchor (25:13)

Company. I mean, the same blurring and tussle and mental models are going on in public and private. Yes, too many big names dominating certain indices. Too much VC capital really is totally exposed to the trade. How have you talked to your clients and potential future LPs about, well, the economy not supporting. What is an AI.

Patrick McGoldrick (JP Morgan Private Capital) (25:35)

Bubble? I think there's a few things you have to root yourself in and just taking a step back at times and zooming out makes it a little bit easier to appreciate the growth in the private markets. And in particular, you go back three years ago, chat CPT just emerged on the scene. We're at a billion monthly active users and it is one of the most intertwined assets within a tech stack at both the consumer level and the enterprise level. You have growth curves being completely redefined. That's the hardest part, I think, for public market investors is you have companies achieving $100 million of revenue one to two years faster than their public SaaS companies did when they were private at 2020 to 30%. The number of employees. Think about the compounding effects of that over time. So yes, there will be in any tech cycle, there are assets that are overvalued, there's Excess. There are companies that may completely go bust. But inherent in every single tech cycle, cloud computing infrastructure, 5G mobile Internet, there is a new cohort of companies that define those generations. And we think we're seeing many of those play out in the private.

Host/Anchor (26:35)

Markets. Look, the leading one defining private market valuations at the moment is Space X. We're on tenterhooks waiting for Blue Origin to launch and we're going to go back to it in a moment. But what are your perspective in terms of where 2026 is going to see, really the excitement, the exuberance is going to be all about generative AI, the models, the LMS or more space more.

Patrick McGoldrick (JP Morgan Private Capital) (26:56)

Broadly? I think it's. It's very clear that defense technology in space, it's having a moment and appropriately so, I think the rate of innovation, the Starlink business just a handful of years ago, there's a lot of speculation on what the monetization profile of that asset would look like. For us, we are definitely focused on core assets where there's defensibility of spend from the Chief Information Officer layer on the enterprise side. Right. We benefit from JP Morgan's breadth of $18 billion of technology spend to drive insight there. But importantly cybersecurity, artificial intelligence, those are resilient areas of spend. Why? Because the efficacy that you're seeing now from deploying AI, AI in your organization exceeds the cost is very much an ROI positive trade for people now. So focusing on the right companies, defensible moats, clear and sophisticated management teams to manage the conflicts and competition that comes to the four and then being in a position to back the winners is very much where we're.

Host/Anchor (27:52)

Positioned. Patrick, it's great having you.

Patrick McGoldrick (JP Morgan Private Capital) (27:54)

On. Thank.

Host/Anchor (27:54)

You. Come back. Wishing you well for the end of the of 2025. Patrick McGoldrick, managing partner of JP Morgan Private Capital. Let's get back to Blue Origin now. The launch is back on. We return to our space reporter Lauren Grosch alongside Chad Anderson, Space Capital founder and CEO. Any details, Lauren? On what? Maybe just press the pause.

Lauren Grosch (Space Reporter) (28:13)

Button. I think it was exactly what I thought it turned out to be. Wins something that it originally pushed back the launch time this morning so. But it seems to have cleared. We've got a new T minus 0 and about four minutes, I think. Let me just check the time. Five minutes. Yes. And I would not be surprised if they had another hold for wins again. Fingers crossed that they don't. But as of now it seems like all systems.

Host/Anchor (28:40)

Go. And Chad, just remind us of the business model Here, because this is, these are sort of short and sweet 11 minute rides almost. This is more pleasure tourism, but also still understanding the capacity of what humans can do and achieve just into inner or outer orbital. What do you make of what this precedent is for New Shepard and where else it takes us for human.

Chad Anderson (Space Capital CEO) (29:02)

Travel? Yeah, I think, you know, again, this is a small vehicle, it's going to suborbital space, just basically kissing the edge of space and coming back down. And, and so I think that it's really kind of indicative of the different sort of philosophies between SpaceX and Blue Origin where SpaceX has test programs that they do out in public, they fail fast, learn quickly, adopt those learnings and then apply them to their next iteration and we get to follow along and watch that test program play out in real time. With Blue Origin, they're much more careful. They do a lot of testing internally before they ever launch. And that's why we've seen them have an incredible success rate. And this vehicle, this New Shepard vehicle has an incredible success rate. And they've been launching, they've launched 80 people over 16 flights. You know, all of these, you know, this is a very successful, very reliable vehicle and it's really the, the first step in their larger space ambitions. So the, you know, the landing technology that they use here, they have applied that to their larger New Glenn vehicle. They've got an even bigger New Glenn vehicle that they've just announced, you know, they want to go, they want to launch space stations, they have a lunar lander and contracts with NASA. So their ambitions are large. And this New Shepard vehicle is sort of the seeding of that technology.

Host/Anchor (30:22)

Roadmap. Lauren, we mentioned NASA there and as I said before, we have indeed seemingly confirmed a new chief of NASA, Jared Isaac. Man, it's been a bit of whiplash through the process. What is he set to put in place? What is the government relationship with these new private.

Lauren Grosch (Space Reporter) (30:38)

Startups? Well, Blue Origin has established itself as a very important partner with NASA. I think, as Chad mentioned, they have a lunar lander program which NASA has contracted them to build for their Artemis program, which aims to send humans back to the moon for the first time in over a half century. So they are very bullish on the moon. I think if you've ever heard Jeff Bezos talk about his space ambitions, the moon is a very big part of that. And also it's an exciting time for Blue Origin because before Jared Isaacman was confirmed as NASA administrator, the acting administrator, Sean Duffy had talked about potentially opening up the competition again for the first lunar landing on the moon. So Space X currently holds that contract to land the first humans on the moon for the Artemis program. But because of some concerns about delays in that development process, Sean Duffy had talked about opening up that contract to see if Blue Origin could potentially move more quickly on their lunar lander program. So I think they're going to try and take advantage of that. So it'll be a very interesting time over the next few years to see if SpaceX pulls ahead, if Blue Origin pulls ahead. So we're really in a new age space race to get back to the.

Host/Anchor (32:01)

Moon. And the race is on for NS 37, just 1 minute, 30 seconds or so before launch. Chad, very briefly, the management behind Blue Origin, the likes of Dave Limp coming from Amazon.

Chad Anderson (Space Capital CEO) (32:12)

Important. Absolutely. I mean, the company was around for two decades and never launched anything. You know, they were in R and D mode for a very long time. I think bringing in Dave Lemp, you've seen what's happened. I mean, obviously a lot of work had been done up to that point. But he, Dave Limp is, is a key reason why the company is now launching. It's a key reason why we're seeing New Glenn come online and it's a key reason why they're moving so aggressively on their lunar programs and all these other things so super.

Host/Anchor (32:41)

Important. From, from my perspective, we have one minute to go. Lauren, what will be doing being done by the astronauts in place right now? Oh, we're on hold again. 5,958 seconds to go. Maybe a wind pause for now, Lauren. But what would the astronauts currently be doing? What were the six people who are currently riding likely to be doing in this preparation.

Lauren Grosch (Space Reporter) (33:02)

Stage? Well, I don't know personally, but I imagine their hearts are thumping quite quickly and perhaps the adrenaline is pumping through them at this moment. I think truly the way that the vehicle is designed is that it's very automated so they are strapped into their seats. I think they really just are along for the ride for that, that first ascent portion. So I think for them it's just a waiting game. And they're probably, you know, gripping the handrails a little tight right now, waiting for this hold to.

Host/Anchor (33:32)

Pass. I mean, the background of these people, Chad, it is fascinating. As you say, we're now. Well, I don't think I'm 2 degrees separated from Katy Perry, but certainly apparently I'm maybe 2 or 3, 6 degrees separated from Joey Hyde, who is a physicist and a hedge fund investor from Florida, who's On board. No relation to me as far as I'm aware of it. But we do have Mitchie Benthaus who of course is going to be the first person going into space in wheelchair, which is a significant step. Got German American aerospace engineer Hans Consigman. How are these people ultimately picked? Some of them privately spending, some of them backed by government.

Chad Anderson (Space Capital CEO) (34:04)

Grants? Yeah, I mean I think it's a, a mix. You know Blue Origin and Bezos himself has, you know there's usually an impact angle to what they do. Like there is meaning behind what he's doing. He. The first passengers were, and I call them passengers because they're really like, like Lauren has said it's, you know, it's an autonomous vehicle and they're kind of along for the ride. But the first passengers were selected very carefully. You know they wanted to tell the right story and. But no, I mean people are, they have put down deposits, they paid their way. They. There is a long list of people who really want to go to space in addition to the first person in a wheelchair which again is like really pointing to how accessible spaceflight has become. Hans is a big one for me. I mean this is. He's a SpaceX legend. He was the one of the earliest and most senior employees of SpaceX. He was their VP of Build and flight reliability for a decade. So seeing a key architect of SpaceX's success fly on a Jeff Bezos owned Blue Origin rocket is kind of the crossover moment that has the industry talking. I think it's really interesting that.

Host/Anchor (35:17)

Is now all become weightless as a spacecraft continues towards its highest point on the brief joint. The brief voyage. They're going out to the common line. Stick with us. Lauren Grush and Chad Anderson of Space Capital. We so appreciate your time. We'll go back to this launch as and when the clock restarts. For now let's check in on these markets. We're up 2%. We're in risk on mode. The desire to be buying into equities after inflation comes in cooler than expected. But we get some relief from some of the anxiety they've been building in the market because we've got earnings fundamentals for Micron that was well above expectations with revenue growth rate far above the 50% that perhaps have been expected. And they're pointing towards ever growing margins. How long is that sustainable? We're up 11 and a half percent on the stock is actually not at a record high but boy have price targets been raised. Let's discuss that with Bloomberg equities reporter Ryan Vastelica. And I mean I was looking on overall analysts recommendations. One of the highest price targets is $500 and there's only one sell rating on.

Advertiser/Commercial Voice (36:15)

Micron. Yeah, absolutely. People seem like they are really coming around on this story. I saw bank of America up upgraded the stock earlier today. A lot of optimism around just the overall memory needs that are going to be required as the AI infrastructure buildout continues especially going into next year. So a lot of optimism there. There have been some shakiness in the wake of Oracle and Broadcom results but it really seems like Micron really surprised to the upside. Things were well ahead of expectations across the key metrics and they talked about so much that it man they're not able to like have enough supply to meet their major customers. So sort of a problem there but I guess a good one just in terms of how strong the demand.

Host/Anchor (36:54)

Is. I mean a problem for certain customers that dependent on maybe just the more basic NAND memory part of the business and they're having to pay higher prices already. There were reports that Dell was having to pass on some higher prices last week. Dell is down on the day, so too is.

Advertiser/Commercial Voice (37:07)

Hp. Yeah, absolutely. We are seeing weakness across the hardware space today. Obviously you know, as you increase these memory prices or prices for memory chips that's going to be a problem for the companies that have to pay for it. Obviously a lot of the spending is being done at least on the side of things by these mega cap companies that have such deep pockets, you know your Microsoft's and Alphabet and Amazons and so forth. But beyond that we are seeing places where you know, Micron's gain is.

Host/Anchor (37:31)

Going to their detriment for Celica always across these market moves. We thank you. Let's stick on the moves post Micron. Joanne Feeney is with us, partner and portfolio manager at Visors Capital Management, our guru when it comes to all things semiconductors. Just how important has the high bandwidth memory part of the business become for.

Joanne Feeney (Visors Capital Management) (37:49)

Micron? Oh it's absolutely essential. You know they made that move into that technology space. They're the leader and it is proving to be extremely useful in these data centers for AI because of the intense memory needs to, to keep that processing going as quickly as possible. So you know, not enough capacity out there. They're adding some but in the meantime they're going to enjoy further price.

Chad Anderson (Space Capital CEO) (38:13)

Increases. So good for.

Host/Anchor (38:15)

Them. Yeah, good for them. But we know this is a desperately cyclical market at times and it can be very good on the upside, very painful on the downside. They are committing to more capital expenditure. They are building out to try and meet some of that demand. You and is that the right game.

Joanne Feeney (Visors Capital Management) (38:29)

Plan? Yeah, it's, it's a tough, it's a tough industry industry because we do, as you pointed out, Carolyn, we get these cycles and it's boom and bust that there are a few players, but each of them wants to be first with supply so they can capture the resilient demand, the higher prices and then inevitably they overbuild prices come crashing down. What's different this time perhaps is the strength of the demand for this new product line because of what we're seeing obviously in the build out of data centers. And if forecasts are correct and we're going to see years worth of data center build out, we're going to see that demand sustained at these high levels. That doesn't mean capacity isn't going to catch up. Clearly they're going to try. And so ultimately prices will come down. And then, you know, the question becomes, okay, so once we've built these data centers and that build slows down, what is the need for all of those new factories for making memory chips? So it's a devilishly safe cyclical industry. Very.

Host/Anchor (39:29)

Tough. There are few players who managed to crack the HBM code. SK Hynix, Samsung trying to play catch up. How much do you think competition could really ramp up into.

Joanne Feeney (Visors Capital Management) (39:38)

2026? Yeah, I mean clearly SK Hynix is involved. Samsung is a great company. I'm sure they'll figure this out. Whether they can add capacity quickly is another question. But they have the ability to switch capacity between solid state memory and dram and they'll do that as long as the demand remains. But even with Micron, I mean they talked about pulling in the expansion in Idaho from, you know, the sort of fourth quarter or the third quarter of fiscal 27 into the middle of 27, so maybe moving it up by a quarter. It's just tough to bring on new capacity. There are constraints from the equipment suppliers, you know, LAM Research, Applied, asml. You can only get your hands on key equipment so quickly. So it's always slow and, and therefore that gives investors some visibility to how long the cycle might.

Host/Anchor (40:26)

Last. Were you given any more anxiety around certain players in the space? Yesterday we were all talking about Oracle and perhaps whether its financing was good or not for builds out in Michigan. It feels as though they said they've got the right equity in place, but how much are we going to see this on again, off again bubble problem, problems in 2026.

Joanne Feeney (Visors Capital Management) (40:49)

Too. I think this anxiety is going to continue and for good.

Advertiser/Commercial Voice (40:53)

Reason.

Joanne Feeney (Visors Capital Management) (40:53)

Right? There's uncertainty about how quickly these AI applications will be put into practice to generate profits to keep that demand going for those new data centers. But when you look at the investments taking place by the big guys, by the, you know, mega companies like Microsoft, Google, Amazon, what you see are companies with just immediate, immense free cash flow. Just take a look at their numbers. You know, Amazon reportedly a $10 billion investment in open Air in exchange for Open Air using its Trainium chips. Amazon's free cash flow this year and next year is well over $10 billion. Right. They have plenty of money. And you look at the others that have even larger levels of free cash flow making investments in OpenAI and elsewhere. So I think some of the concern is a little bit misplaced. But you know, you look at Accenture this morning, which you know, we've owned for clients for a long time, they are talking about how difficult it is to get their data and their systems and their processes in place so that they can help customers. What they're also saying is that customers want and need their help. So there's definitely an effort out there to roll out applications and you know, we're going to see that happen. The question that makes people nervous is how quickly will it happen? Will there be enough profits for the users of AI who are paying this money for access to these models? Will they continue to pay in sufficient quantities? That doesn't cause a slowdown in the build out of these data centers. But right now, you know, the valuations for a company like Broadcom are really reasonable. When you just look at two years worth of growth and some are complaining that the valuations are not so reasonable. But I would encourage people to look not just at one year of of earnings growth, but look at a couple, look at.

Host/Anchor (42:33)

Three. I like that takeaway. Joanne Feeney, always great to catch up from Advisors Capital Management. Stay well. Thank you. Just take a look at this. Chinese firms, they have been soaring in terms of share price. New entrants like Meta X like more threads, they've gone public with wildly oversubscribed debuts as China makes an all out push to become self sufficient in semiconductors. So what does it mean for the US firms for global tensions? James Proud, he is CEO of Substrate Founders Fund back chip foundry in the United States. You just come out of stealth. You joined us on the show at the end of October and what I really want to get your perspective on is China's domestic supply right now and how much you've long been concerned about our exposure in the US to Taiwan and the like. Like, how much is China making.

James Proud (Substrate CEO) (43:24)

Strides? Yeah, well, I think when we talk about China's ability to have an advanced semiconductor sector, the question isn't can China make fabs, can they make equipment? The question has always been, will they have access to EUV lithography tools or be able to make their own? And the reporting that came out yesterday shows that China now has a working prototype of some type of which I think to a lot of people came as a surprise. This is something that we've been tracking for a very, very long time and, and something that I think that the US should actually take incredibly seriously. We can't just be playing defense. There needs to be a plan of, okay, how do we regain leadership, but really by a leap ahead so that we can actually maintain that when China is able to actually make advanced.

Host/Anchor (44:10)

Semiconductors. Now, what's so interesting is that just today we're hearing that Tencent has managed to to appoint a new chief AI scientist. Bringing over from OpenAI from the reporting being done by outlets like Reuters that there's some new EUV or some sort of lithography equipment built in China by people who've come from ASML and gone to went back in China. How is the talent war and the brain drain something that you're keeping an eye.

James Proud (Substrate CEO) (44:34)

On? Yeah, well, I think that we underestimate China. Too often peril. Like they are some of the smartest scientists and engineers in the world, and we shouldn't be surprised that they sometimes join Western companies and then often go back and are able to compete very effectively. And so I think that betting that China will do something is always the smart strategy versus betting that they can't do something. And so we should change our approach to, to account for.

Host/Anchor (45:03)

That. Your approach is about taking on EUV lithography in a different sort of ways. And means you've been getting $1 billion valuation already. You're looking to restore American leadership when it comes to actually the equipment needed to manufacture semiconductors. What is your relationship right. With the US Government right now? How much are they taking this into account? And how have things changed since we last.

James Proud (Substrate CEO) (45:24)

Spoke? Yeah, our relationship for many years has been very close with the US government. And so I wouldn't say there's barely been much change. We collaborate very, very closely with them and, and they've been some of our biggest supporters. And frankly, we wouldn't be where we are right now without a very, very close.

Host/Anchor (45:42)

Relationship. With the government you use as you say, particle acceleration, x ray wavelengths to really etch intricate detail, basically patterns into wafers. How to those that are cynical on what you're building, how do you give the proof points, give us something tangible that you've managed to make strides in to be able to ensure that maybe we don't even need asml, let alone Taiwan Taiwanese produced.

James Proud (Substrate CEO) (46:06)

Chips. Yeah. So there's a lot that still needs to be done but I think that we're very excited over the coming months and the next couple of years to begin actually showing some, some pretty big leaps. We've been able to go from sort of zero to having our own working prototype tool in three years. And that is, that is sort of similar to what was just announced from China yesterday. Actually on my ex account this morning we went and posted like one of the key things that was actually in that reporting yesterday is a doubt that China will be able to catch up on the advanced optics required for these systems. And we just went and publicly released some research that we did two years ago on, on, on how China is actually already achieving these opportunities optics domestically. And so the efforts that are going on here are far greater than is really sort of at the public level. And yesterday's news is really only the start of.

Host/Anchor (46:58)

This. So what does that mean for maybe easing restrictions on H2 hundreds? I mean all of this. We've seen a clampdown on EUV lithography from ASML going into China from the US Pressure, is it all too late?

James Proud (Substrate CEO) (47:12)

James? I don't think anything is too late. And, and I think that like when, when Jensen says China's only a nanosecond behind, like he's correct. And so I think that our focus at the US needs to be focused on what we're very good at, which is sprinting. Like we can play a defensive strategy but we need to have an offensive, as I said, leap ahead strategy as well. And that's the role that we are trying to.

Host/Anchor (47:38)

Play. James proud CEO of Substrate trying to leap when it comes to chip equipment making. We appreciate it. Now coming up, Trump Media shares absolutely popping as it makes another huge pivot, this time into nuclear fusion. Details next is Bloomberg.

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Host/Anchor (50:51)

Acrobat. It's time now for talking tech. First up, Indian company RRP Semiconductor seen its shares surge more than 55,000% in just 20 months, but the rally is now showing signs of a strain. According to sources. The securities and Exchange Board of India has actually begun to examine the company's shares. Surge potential wrongdoing plus so far it's launched its own US Dollar stablecoin called so Far USD. The company says it plans to make so Far USD available to its members in the coming months and is positioning the token as a tool for 24. 7 settlement across card networks, retailers and businesses. And North Korean hackers are said to have stolen a record $2 billion worth of crypto this year, according to a report from Chainalysis. And the country's haul from crypto theft has risen more than 50% from 2024 since records began. The country is estimated to have boosted its crypto spoils to at least 6.755 billion. Talking of crypto and maybe a bit of a pivot, Trump Media has agreed to combine with TAE Technologies in an all stock transaction valued at more than $6 billion. The companies say it will create one of the world's first publicly traded nuclear fusion companies. The plans to construct the first utility scale fusion power plant next year. Bloomberg Energy reporter Will Wade joins me now. Social media Crypto asset management company is merging with a nuclear fusion company. Let's theorize as to what the upside is for nuclear fusion. Why are they thinking this is a good.

Advertiser/Commercial Voice (52:24)

Bet? You know, this is not the deal I was expecting to see when I got to work this morning. The pieces, I didn't intuitively put them together and I still don't. But what I do know is so TAE has been doing this for a long time. There's a lot of companies working on fusion. TA is making good progress. But one of the things they said is they're getting almost up to $300 million out of this right up front and they need it. Their CEO there was a call this morning and he said capital is becoming one of our problems. I'm like, really? Because infusion physics and engineering and technology has always been the problem. So saying we really need the money is, is an interesting.

Host/Anchor (53:07)

Development. There is a lot of money, a lot of ambition chasing nuclear fusion. Sam Altman is in them. Jeff Bezos, a lot of them have been involved in fusion startups. What's TAE done.

Advertiser/Commercial Voice (53:18)

Differently? TA is using a different kind of fuel. Most of the fusion companies want to use these two hydrogen isotopes, deuterium, tritium. Tritium is hard to get and it's kind of radioactive. Ta yeah, it's TA is using hydrogen, boys. Boron, which is not radioactive and it's easy to get. So they talk about that as one of their differentiators. But you know, really the key for all of them is the super strong magnets to keep this, you know, hundred something million degree ball of plasma.

Host/Anchor (53:50)

Contained. Where are we in nuclear fusion and its efficacy? I mean you're a man who has great patience. You work in the world of.

Advertiser/Commercial Voice (53:57)

Nuclear. Yeah, I mean few nuclear moves slow and fusion moves even slower than that. But the joke on fusion is that it's always 20 years away and it's getting closer. There's a couple of companies that are making, you know, tangible steps. There's Commonwealth Fusion. They're actually working already on what they say will be their first commercial plant. Now they haven't actually achieved a stable fusion reaction yet, but they're getting close to with their demo plant. Tae says they're going to start building their first commercial plant next year with the money from this deal. And there's again on the call today they talked about first power in 2031. He didn't define that. So I'm curious how exactly what that means. But we could have some real fusion power plants sometime in.

Host/Anchor (54:47)

The2030S. It's going to be fascinating to see how the current Trump Media CEO Devin Nunes teams up with the Fusion CEO. They're going to be co CEOs of this business together. It's been great getting a breakdown on just the energy and the innovation side of it all. Bloomberg's Will Wade, he's always there for us when we need to talk nuclear. But that does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech. You don't want to forget to check out podcast. You can find it on the terminal as well as online on Apple, Spotify and Iheart. For now. Blue Origin. The flight has been cancelled. Cancelled. We'll see if that is reconvened for tomorrow. Stick with us. This is Bloomberg.

Advertiser/Commercial Voice (55:22)

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