Musk’s xAI Expands Fundraise to $20 Billion

Summary

Bloomberg Tech — "Musk’s xAI Expands Fundraise to $20 Billion"

Date: October 8, 2025
Hosts: Caroline Hyde, Ed Ludlow
Contributors/Guests: Carmen Arroyo (Bloomberg), Seth Figgman (Bloomberg Editor), Carol Schlife (BMO Private Wealth), Craig Trudelle (Autos Reporter), Steve Wesley (The Wesley Group), Kristen Smith (Solana Policy Institute), Kanishka Narayan (UK Minister for AI), Tom Egermeier (Zendesk CEO)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the latest news and developments in the rapidly evolving AI and tech investment space, leading with Elon Musk’s xAI’s ambitious $20 billion fundraise using creative financing mechanisms, Nvidia’s crucial role, and the emerging risks and ripple effects across markets. The conversation then spans the dynamics of the electric vehicle market (Tesla’s new pricing moves), global AI regulation and government involvement (UK/US partnership), the latest in crypto policy and market structure, and advancements in enterprise AI from Zendesk.

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Key Themes & Discussions

1. xAI’s $20 Billion Fundraise and Creative Financing (SPV for GPUs)

[02:28-06:25]

• Structure Unveiled:
  The episode opens with Bloomberg reporting that Elon Musk’s xAI is raising $20 billion, mainly as debt, partly as equity, to purchase GPUs for its Memphis data center. This is facilitated through a Special Purpose Vehicle (SPV), with xAI leasing chips from investors, including Nvidia, who is also participating in the equity piece.

  • “An SPV or special purpose vehicle is formed...XAI rents or leases those GPUs from the investors and pays them that fee over time. Nvidia is involved in the equity piece.” (Ed Ludlow, [02:28])

• Wall Street’s Growing Role:
  Carmen Arroyo explains this is common in finance but novel in tech: large companies prefer this over adding debt to their own balance sheets.

  • “It’s becoming much more interesting...tech giants basically do these deals because they don’t want to put a lot of debt on the corporate balance sheet...We’re going to see more of these in the future.” (Carmen Arroyo, [03:26])

• The Internal Loop:
  Nvidia, by investing in the equity, is essentially financing the purchase of its own chips, creating a circular ecosystem in AI hardware and funding.

• Long-term Mechanics/Risks:
  Investors get lease payments to pay down the debt; at term’s end, the chips still have value within the SPV. There’s lingering uncertainty about secondary returns or potential equity in xAI itself.

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2. The Broader “Circular” AI Investment Web

[06:25-08:49]

• Market Interconnectedness:
  Seth Figgman highlights Bloomberg’s analysis showing a mad web connecting Nvidia, OpenAI, and their extended networks, emphasizing the systemic size and “circular” nature of much AI funding.

  • “It’s getting to the point where it’s harder to ignore...dozens of investments and business partnerships and chip agreements...almost all lead back to Nvidia and OpenAI.” (Seth Figgman, [06:25])

• Risk vs. Safety:
  While these deals are often backstopped by big, cash-rich companies, the exposure to fast-growing but unprofitable startups like OpenAI introduces market risk.

  • “Is Nvidia about to go bust tomorrow because of this? No. But is there a heightened exposure...because they’re tethering themselves to startups? Yeah, there’s a risk.” (Seth Figgman, [07:34])

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3. Investor Take: Risks, Opportunity, and Portfolio Hygiene

[08:49-14:09]

• Bubble Echoes and Reality:
  Carol Schlife compares the current AI craze to past bubbles but notes today’s solid corporate backers.

  • “It’s rarely ever all black or all white...You might get a ripple effect, but we don’t see it rippling through the economy and taking down major swaths.” (Carol Schlife, [08:49])

• Concentration Hazard:
  With markets heavily concentrated in tech and AI giants, investors need discernment and diversification—even seemingly broad ETFs might be overexposed.

• Due Diligence and Complexity:
  The SPV mechanism for acquiring GPUs is structurally creative and requires investors to dig deeper into what’s truly on or off a company’s balance sheet.

  • “You really have to figure out what’s on the balance sheet, what’s not on the balance sheet.” (Carol Schlife, [12:12])

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4. Tesla’s Cheaper EV Models — Real Innovation or Just Less for Less?

[16:32-24:52]

• Price Cuts & Trade-offs:
  Tesla launches lower-priced versions of its bestsellers in response to lost US tax credits, but the reduction mostly comes from removing features, leading to a “decontented” experience rather than true innovation.

  • “You lose a second row screen, you lose ambient lighting, you have less battery range, slower acceleration...there is a real sort of value equation here.” (Craig Trudelle, [16:53])

• Competitive Landscape:
  Steve Wesley (ex-Tesla board) says this is a step in the right direction, but not bold enough to counter cheaper global competitors, especially from China.

  • “Tesla I believe still needs that $25,000 model to get into new developing markets and attract first-time entrant buyers.” (Steve Wesley, [20:17])

• Tesla’s “Tech Company” Identity Crisis:
  There is skepticism over whether Mercedes-level de-featuring fits Tesla’s tech-forward brand. The discussion also ties in the company’s high valuation and critical dependence on innovation (full self-driving, humanoid robots) to justify it.

  • “The question is, is Tesla going to be right in there as a major competitor or not?” (Steve Wesley, [24:01])

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5. Global AI — UK/US Collaboration, Industrial Policy, and Regionalization

[34:25–42:15]

• UK’s AI Vision:
  Kanishka Narayan, UK Minister for AI, highlights the UK’s ambitions, leveraging Microsoft and ARM investments, and focusing on wide, regional growth—not just London-centric.

  • “The whole point...is to spread opportunity right across the length and breadth of Britain.” (Kanishka Narayan, [37:51])

• Financing the AI Boom:
  The UK is considering support mechanisms for AI infrastructure—not direct government checks, but regulatory, planning, and talent pipeline support. The focus is to enable, not own, the boom.

  • “We’re not going to be playing with taxpayer money where it’s not required...what we are focused on is doing everything we can.” (Kanishka Narayan, [40:00])

• Energy Demands & Clean Power:
  The government’s approach is to co-develop renewable energy and AI infrastructure, ensuring both goals align.

• Attracting Capital:
  The message to investors: “It’s time to put risk on...when you invest with a clear sense of taking on more risk in infrastructure, we will be there hand in hand clearing the way for you...” (Kanishka Narayan, [41:34])

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6. Crypto Markets — Regulation, “Digital Asset Treasuries,” and Global Competition

[27:25–31:57]

• Policy Progress:
  Kristen Smith (Solana Policy Institute) emphasizes the regulatory strides (White House executive orders, SEC guidance) supporting crypto’s legitimacy.

  • “This year we have seen tremendous progress on the public policy front…” (Kristen Smith, [27:25])

• Government Shutdown Risks:
  A US government shutdown slows agency approvals (SEC, CFTC), delaying ETF products and IPOs, but is viewed as a short-term setback.

• Digital Asset Treasuries (DATs):
  DATs have emerged as a new investment vehicle providing exposure to tokens and supporting network participation—a flexible alternative to ETFs.

• Not a US-Only Story:
  Other global hubs (Dubai, Switzerland, Asia) are seen as competitive leaders, reflecting the global nature of crypto.

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7. Enterprise AI Advances — Zendesk’s AI Platform

[43:08–47:20]

• Results-Focused AI:
  Zendesk CEO Tom Egermeier spotlights new AI features focused on “tangible” outcomes, measured in automated resolutions. Their pricing aligns costs only with successful problem-solving.

  • “The only way we charge one of our customers is if we solve the problem for their consumer...So it’s a really unique model where it’s all about AI actually working, not theoretically working.” (Tom Egermeier, [43:32])

• API and System Integration:
  Zendesk’s core strength is robust API connectivity, processing over 800 billion (soon a trillion) API requests annually.

  • “Foundational element of the security API requests...it’s all about connecting to different systems.” (Tom Egermeier, [44:42])

• Debunking the AI Bubble:
  Egermeier believes in AI’s staying power, citing customers already automating up to 80% of their interactions with better customer satisfaction.

  • “The hype is not hype. The hype is real because...customers are automating 80% of interactions already.” (Tom Egermeier, [46:32])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the AI funding structure:

• “Nvidia is invested in the equity, which is really interesting given that they're basically using that money to buy their own chips.”
  — Carmen Arroyo ([04:17])

On systemic concentration:

• “If investors start questioning one, you could get a ripple effect...but we don’t see it rippling through the economy and taking down major swaths.”
  — Carol Schlife ([08:49])

On Tesla’s real challenge:

• “Tesla’s a premium vehicle, they charge a premium and people expect to have the latest and greatest. And I don’t think they’re really seeing that.”
  — Steve Wesley ([21:53])

On the UK’s approach to global AI:

• “We want to be open to the world in terms of business…At the same time, of course, we want...support in the UK as well.”
  — Kanishka Narayan ([36:55])

On Zendesk’s AI reality check:

• “What I say to those nonbelievers is what I tell my kids...you have to learn AI to succeed in the business world for the next 20 or 30 years.”
  — Tom Egermeier ([46:32])

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Important Timestamps by Segment

• xAI/Nvidia SPV Deep Dive: [02:28] – [06:25]
• AI’s “Mad Web” and Market Structure: [06:25] – [08:49]
• Investor Analysis & Risks: [08:49] – [14:09]
• Tesla’s “Cheaper” Models & Market Impact: [16:32] – [24:52]
• UK/US AI Collaboration, Industrial Policy: [34:25] – [42:15]
• Crypto Policy & Digital Asset Treasuries: [27:25] – [31:57]
• Zendesk’s Tangible AI Approach: [43:08] – [47:20]

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Tone & Style

Grounded, data-driven, and occasionally skeptical, with guests offering a balanced view on innovation vs. risk and the interconnectedness of today’s tech investment landscape. The episode’s conversations blend market analysis, policy insight, and frontier technology—with a focus on practical implications for investors, business leaders, and policymakers.

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In Summary:
This episode of Bloomberg Tech takes listeners on a comprehensive journey through the tangled, high-stakes world of AI funding (with a sharp focus on xAI and Nvidia), the growing risk/reward tradeoffs in tech and capital markets, government’s crucial role in industrial and AI policy, and innovations both in the electric vehicle and enterprise software sectors. Whether you’re an investor, policymaker, or industry professional, this edition captures the pulse of what matters most now in technology and innovation.

Transcript

[Caroline Hyde]

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[Steve Wesley]

Bloomberg Tech is live from coast to coast with Caroline Hyde in New York and Ed Ludlow in San Francisco.

[Ed Ludlow]

This is Bloomberg Tech. Coming up, Elon Musk's X AI taps big name investors, including in video in a curious piece of financing for GPUs. Bloomberg breaks the story wide open.

[Caroline Hyde]

Plus Tesla unveils cheaper versions of its top selling EV models. Will it help with falling sales numbers?

[Ed Ludlow]

We'll discuss we sit down with the UK Minister for AI to discuss increased investment between the UK and US on tech innovation and a whole lot more.

[Caroline Hyde]

First, let's check in on these markets that rally once again. If you're Looking in the NASDAQ 100 ED, it is your key players. It is the invitation. We are talking so much about the relentless intertwining of generative AI players at the moment in the market. But what's notable is we still are thinking about fundamentals. We are still thinking about how far we've come from the lows of April. But what are you looking at underneath the hood?

[Ed Ludlow]

Let's get to our top story. Overnight Bloomberg broke details of a financing mechanism that XI is using for the GPUs that are going in Colossus to our understanding from sources is that an SPV or special purpose vehicles formed. They use debt in equity to get the Capital, buy the GPUs. Xi rents or leases those GPUs from the investors and pays them that fee over time. Nvidia is involved, it's getting involved in the equity piece. This morning Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang confirmed a whole chunk of our reporting. Caro, this is very complicated. Let's get into the specifics.

[Caroline Hyde]

Let's do exactly that. Sticking with the two key players of Nvidia and Xai, Bloomberg's common, Arroyo is with us. You help break this story with Ed. And I just want to get to grips of how creative this financing actually is. How often do we see SPVs being set up to buy GPUs and use them as underlying assets?

[Carmen Arroyo]

Hi, thank you for having me. We've seen SPD's in the past before used for other type of assets. It's quite common in Wall street to basically use assets as collateral instead of putting corporate debt. But it's becoming much more interesting and much more common to see tech giants basically do this type of deals because they don't want to put a lot of debt on the corporate balance sheet. So I think we're going to see more of these in the future.

[Ed Ludlow]

Carmen, it's been a busy couple of days chasing this one. Right. So the structure is $20 billion, most of it is debt and there is some equity in there. And this morning Nvidia's CEO Jensen Huang went on another network and in an interview essentially confirmed Nvidia's participation. Just give us the rest of the details that we put in that story.

[Carmen Arroyo]

Sure. So it will be at least 20 billion of capital basically to buy the chips that will use for this data center in Memphis. And there's going to be like a variety of Wall street investors in the debt. We know Apollo is in a diameter. We reported as well. The equity will have a number of investors as well, including Valor, who's leading the financing. But yeah, Nvidia is invested in the equity, which is really interesting given that they're basically using that money to buy their own chips.

[Ed Ludlow]

Where do we go from here? I mean, it's really difficult because I feel there's a lot more reporting to be done. The piece of the mechanism that I'm trying to get my head around is that there's an SPV and XI rents and leases the chips, we think over a five year period. What do the investors get in return? Like are they going to get a stake in xi, are they just being paid rent? Basically. And then that covers their debt obligations. What do we know?

[Carmen Arroyo]

Well, from what we know they get the lease payments, which is how they can amortize the debt over time. So basically you get like, yeah, like monthly quarterly payments for the financing. So you kind of like pay down the debt that way. But the idea from what we understand is basically at the end of it you still have like the chips that have some value right after the five years. So that stays within that spv.

[Ed Ludlow]

I would say just very quick that we haven't heard from Elon Musk or xi. Jensen Huang and Nvidia haven't responded to us formally other than declining to comment. So we'll keep a track of this one. Bloomberg's Common Arroyo, it's great to work with you in the newsroom. Thank you. So that latest funding on Nvidia into AI only adds into what is now a complex web of AI deals that have been occurring. It's the topic of of today's Big take looking at the circular transactions happening within the market. Bloomberg's editor Seth Figgman joins us now. There is this big $1 trillion headline figure and if you draw up a mad web with red string on a board of where everything's going, it all kind of touches Nvidia and Open. I give us the top line of the big take.

[Seth Figgman]

Well, we did try to draw that mad web of red string in our graphic and also thank you for the extra news Peg overnight with the great scoop on video. But yes, I think ultimately we have seen something resembling circuit, circular or interconnected deals for a lot of the boom. But it's getting to the point where it's harder to ignore. There are just dozens of investments and business partnerships and chip agreements. Primarily they all lead back one or two steps removed to Nvidia and OpenAI. And the size and scope of these is just great, grown exponentially, particularly as OpenAI itself has kind of gone from saying we're going to spend billions to possibly trillions on the infrastructure to support this. And also I think as in video has become a $4.5 trillion company that's very eager to keep the good times going by spreading the money around.

[Caroline Hyde]

Seth, talk about the good times and really whether anxiety is vindicated here. The worry on OpenAI's front is that at the moment it's loss making and, and so how does it eventually pay this back? But you have to bet on its growth and its ability to get revenue and really has the money and that's in many ways. Why Goldman, for example, is saying this is not like the.com era. Even if we are seeing these complex web of integrations and relationships, I think.

[Seth Figgman]

Both things can be true. You know, ultimately a lot of what's backstopping the boom as we know it are these very big tech companies with very healthy balance sheets and massive cash stockpiles, including Nvidia. On the other hand, I think the graphic makes quite clear, clear in the story itself that increasingly a lot of these companies are very bound up, particularly open AI affirm that while it's a decade old and a household name everywhere has never turned a profit and plans to spend hundreds of billions if not more, including through debt. So, you know, I think both things can be true. Is Nvidia about to go bust tomorrow because of this? No. But is there a heightened exposure to all these companies because they're tethering themselves to a handful of, you know, fast growing but still unprofitable startups? Yeah, there's a risk.

[Caroline Hyde]

Bloomberg Seth Fiegeman, thank you for talking us through what is an amazing piece of data journalism as well. Go read it. The Big Take. Let's get more investor analysis now, though. Carol Schlife, for more, is chief market strategist at BMO Private wealth has $315 billion in assets under management. And Carol, I'm interested in, there's a great line in that Big take coming from Stacey Roxanne over at Bernstein saying basically Sam Altman is either going to drive this economy lower, we're going to see the world economy tank, or he's taking us to the promised land. Which way are you seeing it going?

[Carol Schlife]

I'm not sure it's either or. First off, thanks for having me. I'm joining you from Toronto today where we're doing a female Eurasia Group US Canada summit. So there's a lot of discussions on AI and other things like that going on here, but I'm not sure it's all good or all bad. It's someplace in between and there are a lot of things to watch. I love the big take already. I caught it in the middle of the night and sent it out to a number of of coworkers. Especially the graphic in there showing that circular nature that's very much like some of the stuff we saw go on in previous bubbles. But as the as your reporter commented on, you've got right now, it's backed by big companies with very solid balance sheets and they're generating revenue off of that. The one thing that we keep in mind for investors though is that you've also got a very concentrated stock market because of that circular nature and the interrelated deals that they're all doing. If investors start questioning one, you could get a ripple effect. But we, it would be a ripple effect. Perhaps you lead to some sort of pullback which we haven't had since April, but we don't see it rippling through the economy and taking down major swaths to the economy. So it's a very nuanced answer, but it's it, it's rarely ever all black or all white.

[Caroline Hyde]

Carol, what we are trying to see though is actually who takes the most of the profits available from all these deals. Nvidia clearly massively revenue generating and profit generating. But then you think of Oracle and some of the questioning about how much of a margin they make on a $300 billion contract for OpenAI. How much do you have to do the due diligence on individual names right now?

[Carol Schlife]

Wise, I think you really do the markets not much because I mean the, you know, one of the phrases we've been using all week is the market seems to be acting like no news on economic data or anything. No news is good news and off we go to new highs. But you have to be very discerning. But we've always been a combination of top down and bottom up and in what we're looking at things. And you also have to, especially in a diversified portfolio, realize you might be over concentrated if even if you're doing individual securities, if you own a pen passive index fund, if you own an AI specific or a technology specific etf, you've concentrated it even more. And so it's doing some of that and it's stepping back and doing some good portfolio hygiene. Looking back perhaps at where we started the year, taking some of those gains off the table and shifting them around to other sectors that are potential beneficiaries because we have energy, we have nuclear, we have a lot of things that have to happen for those, for the switches to go on in those data centers.

[Ed Ludlow]

Carol, you've had a decorated career in markets as a chief investment officer. I just want to run the mechanism that I reported overnight past you again, a special purpose vehicle where you have both debt and equity pulled together by a group of investors who buy GPUs and then in this case X rents those GPUs or leases them from the special purpose vehicle. I haven't heard of this structure before, but just as a structural consideration in financial markets and the debt load and where it's placed. How do you react to that?

[Carol Schlife]

I think it'll be a really interesting earnings season because I am sure a lot of analysts will be asking those detailed questions because we're starting from a place with a lot of those companies other than perhaps Oracle. As I understand it, we're starting from a place of pretty pristine balance sheet rates. You also have tax benefits that accrue to some where you were. I'm not sure exactly how their accounting works in terms of who's expensing everything, who's capitalizing some but you have to capitalize less stuff now. So if you've got the earnings to support writing it off, it's less damaging to the balance sheet. But it is, it is indicative of the fact that Wall street staffed up at the end of last year with an awful lot of deal making people that have had a lot of time to think really creatively about how to put this stuff together. As an investor it makes the job that much more difficult because to your point, you really have to figure out what's on the balance sheet, what's not on the balance sheet.

[Ed Ludlow]

Carol, there's a lot we don't know as well like the tax consideration I'm trying to get after it. Oracle, $100 billion of debt swinging to negative free cash flow for the first time since 1992. I've been tracking the data to you.

[Carol Schlife]

Yeah, we track some of it and we've got a lot of analysts in our global asset management and capital markets units that get really specific about that. I don't as much anymore on a macro basis but I listen really hard and I ask the questions and I started a couple of months ago asking the some of the research teams how are they financing these deals, how are they dealing with, you know, when does it shift to debt? Because at the time it was all coming out of cash flow and I wanted to understand to what goes right through the income statement so it's never showing up on the balance sheet because an Nvidia chip isn't going to last 20 years. And anything less than 20 years you can technically write off against earnings in the period you do it 20 years.

[Ed Ludlow]

So most investors I speak to say try five years. Carol, you've been brilliant. You've been brilliant. We're really grateful for your time here on Bloomberg Tech, BMO Private Wealth. Carl Schlaith. Thank you. Now coming up on the program we're going to take another look at Tesla's cheaper, cheaper version of its top selling EV models. And if it can help with falling sales numbers. That's next. This is Bloomberg Tech.

[Caroline Hyde]

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[Caroline Hyde]

Tesla just unveiled new, cheaper versions of its top selling models priced at under $40,000 to make them, well, more affordable in an effort to counteract the loss of US Incentives for electric cars most. Craig Trudelle, who covers autos, joins us now for more. How much cheaper? Let's get specific on some of the price data and what you're losing for that.

[Seth Figgman]

Yet you know it's somewhere in the range of 11 or 13% cheaper relative to what the base Model 3 and Model Y were costing prior to this. However, when you take into account the $70,500 tax credit that's gone away and what it would have cost you to buy those base models, you know, even just, you know, a week ago or so, these models are, you know, $2,000 more expensive and for less content. So you lose a second row screen, you lose ambient lighting, you have less battery range, slower acceleration. So, you know, will this be helpful for the incremental consumer who was maybe on the sort of line of being able to afford versus not being able to afford a Tesla? I think it does help Tesla's business in that regard, but it's also a case of, you know, not necessarily a slam dunk if you're a consumer, because you're giving up a lot for, you know, for, for a lower price. And, you know, there is a real sort of value equation here, here to do.

[Ed Ludlow]

We reported about 24 hours ahead of time that there would be a standard Model Y. We did not report that there would also be a three. And there was. But I think if you could recap some of the reporting we did on where they engineered out cost, because the reaction on social media at least has been like, hold on, so if you engineered out 70% of whatever, why is it only 13% cheaper?

[Seth Figgman]

Yeah, it's a really good question. And I think, you know, I go back even to April of last year, Ed, when, when you were reporting on the sort of idea that a $25,000 Tesla was sort of falling by the wayside. You know, Tesla sort of came right out and sort of responded to those reports by saying that they were going to introduce more affordable models. And they sort of alluded to this idea of taking some elements of this next generation, you know, vehicle that they were going to sort of incorporate into their existing lineup. I don't get a whole. I don't really get much of a sense that they've actually done that here. It feels more like they've just decontented these vehicles. And so, you know, to the extent that I have questions for, for Musk and the management team, it's how much are you actually sort of innovating your vehicles versus just taking things out and then, you know, charging consumers less because you've taken cost off of, of your own cost of goods sold. And, you know, that's, that's pretty unclear at this juncture whether they've actually, you know, done things with the batteries, with the motors, or have they just taken away content.

[Kanishka Narayan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ed Ludlow]

I mean, the engineering side, that's what we had heard Blueberries create our global autos editor. Thank you so much. Let's continue the conversation with Steve Wesley, founder and managing partner of the Wesley Group, a venture firm with $700 million of assets under management. But we go to Steve because at one time Steve sat on Tesla's board and chaired that their audit committee. He's also been involved at state level finance at a high level for a long time. You heard all of the reporting. I'm sure you've been on Tesla's website and looked at the vehicles. The story here is the impact that a 70$500 federal tax credit was having on the EV market in America, is it not?

[Steve Wesley]

Well, it's going to have a big impact. Look, the big question here is this is a step in the right direction. Tesla's bringing prices down, but 37k for the Model 3, is that low enough to attract a new class of buyers and step back a bit. 37k, it's less than the average US internal combustion engine vehicle which today stands at 48k. But can Tesla's new model compete with the evidence from Volkswagen and Hyundai in the US at 27,000 and how are they going to compete with those $20,000 Chinese EVs that BYD is bringing into Europe? So I think there's a chance the new slimmed down model is going to bring in some new buyers for sure. But how much is it going to cut into the premium market and are they going to end up ahead at the end of the day, looking forward to. Battery prices are going to continue to drop. This may be a stopgap measure, but Tesla I believe still needs that $25,000 model to, to get into new developing markets and attract first time entrant buyers.

[Ed Ludlow]

In the U.S. you know, Tesla considers itself a technology company and, and the leader in global engineering. Right. When you were at Tesla it was about Model S principle plea and like that was value for money because it was so performant and had all of these bells and whistles with it. I guess the route, my question is why would they release this vehicle? You know, to many people it doesn't live up to that engineering or technology value that Tesla's given historically.

[Steve Wesley]

I think you put your finger on the problem. Tesla's a premium vehicle, they charge a premium and people expect to have the latest and greatest. And I don't think they're really seeing that. You see these other brands like BYD with 12 models and Volkswagen and eight, I think and General Motors with 10. Gee whiz. Tesla's only had five models in its history and the cybertruck barely counts because that was a flop. People want to see new technology, new products coming into market. I really think they need that $25,000 car, but they've got to do both. They not only need to bring new models and lower cost cars to market at the same time they have to deliver on this promise of getting full self driving out there, staying competitive. Waymo, they've got some things to prove.

[Caroline Hyde]

Steve, that is the technology that they're now betting on. The innovation cycle moves towards robotics and was to automation. How integral is the cash cow of car sales to you?

[Steve Wesley]

Well again they've got to do both. When you have a company that's trading at a 250 price to earnings ratio, that's nosebleeding high. I mean the cash Nvidia is only at 50 to 1. So they've got to show that they can not only bring new products to market, stay in the ballpark price wise. I'm not sure a 4k reduction really gets them there and get licensing in new cities. So they show that their full self driving is going national and hopefully international. And if they're going to be able to deliver on this humanoid robots, they've got a tough road ahead to show that they can stand up to the valuation they currently have now. Hard to argue with $1.1 trillion market cap. But I'm not sure investors will that for long.

[Caroline Hyde]

Mean briefly you just mention the valuation difference between Nvidia and Tesla, but we know that Jensen Huang saying I wish I put more money into Xi for example in the SPV because he wants to back anything Elon does. Steve, what would it take for you to be interested in buying back into Tesla as a shareholder?

[Steve Wesley]

Well, what you'd want to see is real progress, full self driving. You know, just as the world's going all electric, it's going autonomous faster than people realize. You're going to see that in the next year with Waymo's growth. The question is, is Tesla going to be right in there as a major competitor or not the same time? You're absolutely right. We're heading into this new world of autonomy in every thing from the factory floor to vehicles. And people are going to want to see this new humanoid robot. Can Tesla be cutting edge at new areas? Now who wants to bet against Elon Musk for all he's developed at Space X Starlink? And frankly you got to give them credit for reinventing the auto industry. But the last three years have been lean and you look at three years of flat revenues, people need to hear that new story and I think they need to hear it soon.

[Caroline Hyde]

Steve Wesley of the Wesley Group, always great catching up with you. Thank you. Now coming up, SoftBank gets in on robotics, talking of it in a new deal following Masayoshi Son's growing bets on the emerging tech and AI disciplined by tech. Time now for talking tech. And first up, SoftBank agrees to buy ABB's robotics unit, which supplies industrial arms and robots to manufacturers in a $5.4 billion deal. This is as SoftBank CEO Masayoshi sun aims to build data centers across the US in partnership with OpenAI and Oracle. Plus, Alibaba has set up an in house robotic robotics team, part of its effort to develop physical AI. The team sits within the unit responsible for the company's main AI foundation models. Unit's leader Justin Lin says the focus will be multimodal models which he predicted would become foundational agents.

[Ed Ludlow]

And okay, coming up, we're going to speak with Kristen Smith, Solana Policy Institute president, as signs of some bitcoin support begin to fade a little. A big crypto segment coming up next from San Francisco and Los Angeles. This is Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. If you're just joining us, I thought.

[Kanishka Narayan]

I'd give you a little bit of.

[Ed Ludlow]

A flavor of what tech's doing in financial markets. Nasdaq 100, up about a percentage point. There's buyers for stocks in tech right now. It's mostly the chip names that are pushing us higher, but some mega caps as well. And of course, we've been talking all morning about what's happening with XI and Nvidia and some other folks. And I'm sure we'll do a bit more. And there are 1 million Bitcoin headlines on the Bloomberg terminal. That's not an exaggeration. If I had time, I'd read them all to you. But about $122,500 per token on bitcoin. Bitcoin's thrived this year, right? Rising 30% year to date with the help of easier monetary policy. By the way, a lot of Fed speakers over the next couple of days. And also a weaker dollar has played its part. But the cryptocurrency's rally is poised to fizzle as support fades. A part of that is some of that headline that I was talking about on the Bloomberg terminal. Joining us now is Kristen Smith, Solana Policy Institute president. Oftentimes when you come on the program, something has happened. There might be a piece of legislation or someone has said something. There are many news stories tangentially linked to Bitcoin right now, but I don't see like one single catalyst that's holding up an entire crypto industry.

[Carmen Arroyo]

Well, I do think there is one common thread right now among the crypto industry and that's that this year we have seen tremendous progress on the public policy front. We've had a very strong leadership by the White House with the executive orders. We've had the stablecoin legislation, the Ghost Genius act, sign into law this summer. And then we have the SEC's Project Crypto, which is issuing guidance for how securities laws apply to this space. And so I do think as we look across crypto generally, but specifically to Bitcoin and also Solana, which I care deeply about, we have this common thread of it's okay if you're an asset allocator or if you're an exchange or a bank to be literally looking at this sector because it's going to be a part of our financial future going forward.

[Ed Ludlow]

But Kristen, we have a government shutdown.

[Carmen Arroyo]

We do, we do. Well, crypto markets never sleep.

[Ed Ludlow]

But the government agencies during a government shutdown.

[Carmen Arroyo]

These do. Yes, I. Listen, I'm not going to lie to you. It is a short term setback to have the federal agencies shut down right now, particularly with the SEC and the CFTC. We have over 90% of the staff furloughed at those agencies right now. And so that means routine things like approval of new S1s or S3s have a real impact, particularly when it comes to things like Solana Exchange traded products which are on the cusp of going live. We just need to get the corporate finance staff at the SEC back or similarly new IPOs in the crypto space like Bitco are impacted by, by the shutdown. But Congress is working, the Senate is in and the legislative discussions are continuing there. And so I think this is a short term setback and as soon as the government opens up, we'll be back on track.

[Caroline Hyde]

What's interesting is some of the froth or the constant headlines, a million of them as ED references, but they were all about digital asset treasuries at one point and that seems to have called a lot. I'm even looking at strategy. The Artist formerly known as MicroStrategy, now off by about 6, 7% in the last few days alone. Is the wind coming out of that particular trade sales?

[Carmen Arroyo]

Well, I think there was a lot of interest over the summer and I think there is continued interest and there will be some consolidation. But if you step back, if you look at digital asset Treasuries, what's going on here is that for a long time there were no way for traditional investors to access exposure to crypto assets. And digital asset Treasuries have kind of filled that void in the more favorable regulatory environment. And I think what we're seeing these digital asset Treasuries do is, yes, they are accumulating the token, but they're also participating in the network. So in the case of Solana, they are staking it. These DAX are operating validators and they're trying to be good stewards of the Treasuries in ways that are a little bit more expansive than an ETF will be able to do once those are approved. So I do think DAX are going to continue to play a role. I think we'll likely probably see some consolidation among the dax going forward. But I think if you think about it, for a long time, these Treasuries were held largely with foundations that were limited in what they could do with the Treasuries of tokens they were sitting on. So I think the DATs are new and innovative model, but it's also a way for investors to have a different option for getting exposure to these assets. And with something like Solana, we think this is going to be the future Rails for finance. And so it's a great way to get exposure to the asset class.

[Caroline Hyde]

I'm looking at Solana up 100% in the last six months alone, Kristen. But this isn't just an American story. This isn't just about regulatory clarity in America. These are global assets. What other countries are doing it right right now?

[Carmen Arroyo]

Yeah, well, I think Dubai is one hub that is particularly strong. I think Switzerland has also had a lot of interest and there is incredible excitement coming out of different parts of Asia. And so, yes, I think the fact that this is a global technology is what makes it so compelling. It means that you can have anyone who has access to a phone on the same set of Rails and provide the same access to investors or access to investment opportunities. And so I think it's a really exciting potential. And I think as the US Continues to move along and get these good policies in place, we're going to see more competition and maybe even a bit of freeing up of some of the more restrictive policies around the globe. But we are seeing competition, particularly out of the Middle east and Asia.

[Caroline Hyde]

Kristen Smith, Solana Policy Institute Always great to have you back on the show. Thank you. Coming up. We continue the story of what's happening elsewhere outside the US because it's the UK Minister of I, Kanishka Narayan is joining us. We're talking about the leaders and the founders are actually gathering in San Francisco for the Tech Week upon us right now. This is Bloomberg Tech.

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[Ed Ludlow]

San Francisco is host to Tech Week, bringing companies and leaders from around the globe, the discussion dominated by AI. Shocking. Joining us now is Kanishka Narayan, UK Minister for AI and also Parliamentary Undersecretary for the State in the Department of Science, Innovation and Technology and Minister, welcome to the program. Delight to be heard. You know it's timely. Your visit. SF Tech Week is a Tech Week. But you come here with a large delegation of both on the policy side, but the companies themselves. Why? What is it that you hope to get out of being here?

[Kanishka Narayan]

Well, I think is a central focus for us in the uk. It is a fundamental part of our growth mission. And one of the things I'm most focused on on here is to talk up the UK US Tech prosperity deal. It is a historic deal in its scale. We have a record set of investments, the biggest ever investment by Microsoft and cumulatively tens of billions going into the UK and deepening our collaboration. But fundamentally on scope, the UK and US have a deep history of a special relationship. We are renewing and rewiring that for the economy.

[Ed Ludlow]

Mr. Norrin, the United Kingdom, as, as, as Europe is, is very dependent on very large American technology companies making investments and innovating. Is that a fair statement to your mind? And how conscious is your government of a dependence on both the software and hardware side? What American companies are doing?

[Kanishka Narayan]

Well, again, I think in any marriage you talk about mutual dependence and a mutual sense of recognition and acknowledgement of strengths. In Britain we have an amazing economy. In particular we have DeepMind, the home of a bunch of transformer models. We have a great chip design company in ARM located in the UK and we have a budding sense set of entrepreneurs for the future of AI as well. And so we have a lot to offer to the analysis. But of course we want to do it when recognizing the deep strengths that the US has. That's why I'm here opening the doors for UK and US but businesses to work more closely together.

[Caroline Hyde]

Kanishka, you mentioned great names, but DeepMind's open, owned by Alphabet and Masayoshi sun in Japan, generally controls arm. A little bit of it trades and it trades on US indices. And I'm interested from your perspective, therefore how much you're likely to see. I rewire that. How much does the UK want to be dependent on the uk? Are you ultimately all still about trade and dependence on other nations too?

[Kanishka Narayan]

Well, I think Caroline, that's a great question, but the fundamental thing I'd say is that we want to be open to the world in terms of business. So if people want to come and invest in fantastic talent and fantastic businesses in the uk, we are open for business. At the same time, of course, we want to make sure that people coming through our universities, people wanting to build businesses, have capital, have compute and fundamentally have a deep community of support in the UK as well. A lot of what I'm here to do is to Try and be the drum for that and to make sure that we're attracting the best folks to come and build in the UK as well as build in the UK for.

[Caroline Hyde]

Countries abroad and Krish across the uk I think that's what's really interesting. There's been this focus on it. Not like the services sector all being dominated in London but spread out. I'm really interested in the growth zones. Have you thought about any more of the cities or the towns that are going to benefit from these data centers and really how much it does benefit those living there? Because. Because data centers don't add that many jobs. They're a big suck on power and water.

[Kanishka Narayan]

Well, this is a really, really critical question Caroline, because in the last wave of software and As a former SaaS investor I saw a huge amount of the gains in the jobs concentrated in a very small number of places for a small number of people. The whole point of what we're doing on the revolution with our growth zones program is to spread opportunity right across the length and breadth of Britain. I represent a constituency in Wales which has a beating heart of the compound semiconductor industry.

[Ed Ludlow]

Exactly as you say.

[Kanishka Narayan]

We are creating 5,000 jobs in the northeast near Newcastle for Premier League followers. They'll know it very well and we are keen on making sure that whilst it's the case that there are some jobs with datacenters that that's the start, not the end of the journey. We want to create a ton of jobs in adapting and using COMPUTE from data centers, not just building them in.

[Ed Ludlow]

South Wales formerly known as New Port Wafer Fab now known as Vishay. I think that's right. I've got a newspaper clipping on a board in my kitchen about that. Minister. The financing of the infrastructure projects in the United States are getting interesting to say the least. We are reporting on mechanisms where investors make a special vehicle raise capital Xi in that example leases the capacity the US government has taken a stake in Intel. Tell for example Caroline and I have been talking a lot about N scale recently. What options does the UK government see in in accelerating the build out but also any direct mechanism that you might be considering financially or otherwise to support those initiatives?

[Kanishka Narayan]

Well, the broad thing I'd say is what is happening I think across the market in terms of financing is a recognition that there is very significant value creation and value uplift lift from building out AI infrastructure. And so that is the starting point for what is going on in the market. And whether we invest in companies or whether we invest more indirectly is an open Question. The fundamental thing that we're focused on is making sure we create a fantastic scale of infrastructure. We have the right level of compute and we have talent that can make the most of it. Nscale is a great example. The largest ever series be in Europe for a British company breaking out outside.

[Ed Ludlow]

Of the United States.

[Kanishka Narayan]

Outside of the United States. Building, building out in the, in the U.K. you know, I don't think there was a direct financing requirement there at all. And so we're not going to be playing with taxpayer money where it's not required. What we are focused on is doing everything we can and I speak to the founders of NScale regularly as well, everything we can on permitting, on planning, on wider support to make sure that the value uplift of AI is captured in the UK.

[Ed Ludlow]

This UK government has net 00 obligations. And so with AI. Could you explain to our global audience, many people, by the way, watch this program in the United Kingdom, how you're going to have an energy policy that supports AI and its energy demands?

[Kanishka Narayan]

Well, look, I think we have two things that we want to make sure we do. We have a clean power mission by 2030 which is critical to what we ran the election on. We have a deep democratic mandate for and we have an AI revolution that we want to make the most of as well. The trick here is to make sure that the two of those reaffirm each other. We are building infrastructure in places with renewable energy and in turn we are using AI to make our renewable energy build out way more efficient as well.

[Caroline Hyde]

Minister, it's a tough time for governments around the world when it comes to spending versus the size of the deficits or their borrowing. And it's interesting that Andrew Bailey, of course, leader of the bank of England just this week talking to Bloomberg and the economy writ large saying the UK must invest more in the air if they're going to ride this wave. What do you, as someone who understands investment, tell the capital markets of the UK and indeed pension funds and those that are based there in terms of actually driving capital investment, not just coming from the big US players into the United Kingdom?

[Kanishka Narayan]

Well, Caroline, I think this is a central question and the thing I say to everyone in the capital markets in the UK and abroad is two things. One, it's time to put risk on. We want to try and make sure that we are investing in the future of our people in the uk, the future of our kids growing up and wanting to build fantastic companies. And I want the capital markets to be deep partners in that mission. But the second thing is there's not a one way ask, it's a two way exchange and the offer from government is a very clear one. We are laser sharp focused on making sure that when you invest with a clear sense of taking on more risk in infrastructure, we will be there hand in hand clearing the way for you in terms of making sure it's an efficient and easy build.

[Caroline Hyde]

It's gone. Kanishka Narayan it's been great speaking with you. Enjoy your time in San Francisco. The UK Minister for AI now talking of AI Anthropic. It will open its first office in India, becoming the latest American AI company to expand in the rapidly growing market. Known for of course its engineering talent, Anthropic plans to hire a team to help build unique local applications will advance its capabilities in Indian languages.

[Ed Ludlow]

ED okay, coming up in the program, we're going to speak with Zendex CEO about new AI capabilities the company is launching and how it feels it differentiates itself in what is a very crowded AI powered service market. Final block of the show coming up, this is Bloomberg Tech.

[Steve Wesley]

Foreign.

[Caroline Hyde]

Customer relationship management provider Zendesk has unveiled new AI capabilities with its platform, aiming to offer clients tangible business results from an AI upgrade. These include new video voice tools as well as of course new agents to help streamline workflows. Let's talk about all of this with Zendesk CEO Tom Egermeier. Tom tangible Talk to us about what is tangible. How do you measure it?

[Tom Egermeier]

We measure it by something called automated resolutions. So the only way we charge one of our customers is if we solve the problem for their consumer, the business they're dealing with or the employee they're dealing with. And so it's a really unique model where it's all about I actually working, not theoretically working.

[Caroline Hyde]

What does it allow your customers to do that they can't with rivals or that they haven't done before?

[Tom Egermeier]

TOM it's really simple. Our customers are wanting a complete platform where sometimes they're going to want their customers to self serve, sometimes they're going to want agents solving the problems and sometimes they want human agents solving the problems. Our platform is an end to end platform that our companies that we work with can choose how consumers, businesses, employees interact with them. And we have that whole platform.

[Ed Ludlow]

TOM the promise and utility of an agent everyone repeats time and time again is its ability to communicate outside of the system you're building, right? It needs to be able to actually meaningfully, meaningfully access other systems. How hard has that been to build? Like there's a real data and security challenge there.

[Tom Egermeier]

That's the core, core strength of Zendesk. We're going to process about 800 billion API requests this year on pace for a trillion next year. And so the core foundation in our architecture is connecting to other systems. And so that's why we're now going to finish the year at about $200 million of air, 20,000 customers that are both paid and unpaid. We believe we're the largest customer service AI provider in the world. And the reason, we think, is that foundational element of the security API requests connecting to different systems. Because I totally agree with you. And it's all about connecting to different systems.

[Ed Ludlow]

So you're going to run a trillion API requests next year. How does that reflect in your operating costs? And literally give me more on the revenue number that. I think you just flicked that.

[Tom Egermeier]

Yeah, we're going to end the year about $200 million of RR for AI. And that is not allocating a part of our existing revenue to AI. That's our new AI products that we've launched in the last two years. AI agents, AI copilot and quality assurance. We, we really believe those API requests are key. And how, how does that work is that we've got a foundational architecture that is dedicated to not just conversations, but making sure that you can have actions from our agents. And those actions are key to getting things done, key to getting those resolution rates up, that automated resolution rate. And we think that's what differentiates us.

[Caroline Hyde]

I really feel it's your private equity background that leads you to bring us so much tangible hard evidence, whether it's what actually the clients are using it for, or whether it's not your numbers, but using your brain right now. I mean, we keep talking about a bubble and a bubble, the worry about future productivity and actual revenue streams from these startups. Tom, what do you say to those that are non believers? Believers?

[Tom Egermeier]

What I say to those that are non believers is what I tell my kids that are 23 and 20. You have to learn AI to succeed in the business world for the next 20 or 30 years, you need to be an AI prompt engineer yourself. We believe there's of course, hype about AI right now, but that the fact that we're doing, we just passed a trillion tokens with open air. They announced it two days ago at their developer conference. We're one of the only about 20 or less companies that are doing that. That tells you the hype is not hype. The hype is real because we're able to go automate up to 80%. We have customers that are automating 80% of interactions already with higher customer satisfaction. So of course there's hype about this, but there's actually tangible results that our customers are seeing with their consumers, businesses and employees.

[Ed Ludlow]

Tom, great to have you back on the program. CEO of Zendesk. We really appreciate your time. Thank you. Caro. I think we better go back to to the broad idea of circular financing but the XI SPV debt thing, you know, I'm just looking at markets at what's up and like not drawing a causal link, but there seems to be a lot being placed in what Jensen Wong said on another network this morning.

[Caroline Hyde]

And what he said is, oh by the way, yes, we give money to these companies and he wish he'd given more perhaps to Elon Musk, but they don't have to buy just Nvidia and GPUs. I think it's interesting that AMD is raveling so hard today and that is.

[Ed Ludlow]

Exactly where my mind was at. And AMD is kind of the outperformer in this session. We have a lot more to come this week, but yeah, 6% gain to Nvidia's 2%. I think he couldn't have been any more clear really. Last thing we still concerned about debt?

[Caroline Hyde]

Yeah, I think more broadly. Sorry, you just cut out a little bit there. But at the moment I think we've got to keep on talking about where the investment cycle is going and keep questioning it because we are healthy balance of cynicism and reality. But that does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech. What have you got tomorrow?

[Ed Ludlow]

Yeah, huge balance of the week remains. We'll be live from Bloomberg screen time in Los Angeles speaking with the absolute best of the entertainment industry. And then something big happens after that.

[Caroline Hyde]

And Friday, yeah, big after that we switch gears and go all in on defense tech speaking with the leaders of Andrew Palantir. So many more. You do not want to miss out on a phenomenal rest of the weekend.

[Ed Ludlow]

This was a big show. So recap the podcast. You know where to find it on the Bloomberg platforms online, Apple, Spotify, iheart and as loads of you told told me at OpenAI Dev Day, you listen to the show as a podcast when you drive to work. Love that. From LA and San Francisco, this is Bloomberg Tech.

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