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- [00:00]
Host/Anchor
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Sebastian Shmielski (Klarna CEO)
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Host/Anchor
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Host/Anchor
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Lisa Mateo (Amazon Ads Small Business Minute)
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Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
Bloomberg.
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Host/Anchor
Audio Studios Podcasts, Radio news Bloomberg Tech is live from coast to coast with.
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Lisa Mateo (Amazon Ads Small Business Minute)
Caroline Hyde in New York and Ed.
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Host/Anchor
Ludlow in San Francisco.
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Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
This is Bloomberg Tech. Coming up, Oracle surges on big cloud, contract wins and an outlook that left some analysts in shock. Coming up, it's also a big day for Klarna, which is getting ready to go public with an IPO priced above above the market range. And we will discuss with the CEO.
- [02:01]
Host/Anchor
And we'll bring you conversations from the primary summit right here in New York. Everything from AI tech, sports, investing and more. Ed.
- [02:10]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
Okay, let's get to our top story. Oracle is having its biggest jump since 1990. To move the chart forward, this was a stock that was already up 45% year to date and now has massive performance in the year. They gave us an outlook for cloud not just for this year, but told us what's going to happen through 2030. Then look at the market cap. $960 billion, almost $1 trillion. They have leapfrogged JP Morgan and propelled themselves into the top 10 companies on the S&P 500. Analysts notes everywhere this morning, some of them saying that they are in shock at the numbers that we got. That is the market reaction. What is it the market's reacting to? Let's get out to Bloomberg Intelligence senior software analyst Analag Rana. There is the backlog right of business. The order book, it's like $450 billion. Then there's the outlook for cloud this year and then there's the trajectory through to the end of the decade. Why is the stock reacting like this and what was the data that you jumped on?
- [03:12]
Anurag Rana (Bloomberg Intelligence Analyst)
Yeah, it is the order order book basically, because that order book is going to bleed into revenue over the next several years depending on how soon Oracle can get those data centers live and get those workloads in.
- [03:25]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
When we talk about AI in the context of cloud, we've been talking about the hyperscalers and then we've been talking about NEO cloud renting gp, Hugh capacity in data centers specifically for AI. Where is Oracle now sitting in that field?
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Anurag Rana (Bloomberg Intelligence Analyst)
Yeah, this is very much close to what Core Weave is doing. Basically renting out GPUs to customers to train their models to do inference workloads. It's the same kind of mindset. But the big difference is Oracle has a very high margin software and applications business that can fund some of this, you know, the, the expansion capacities because the rest of the new clouds don't have that. They have to go out and borrow that much money and you know, at a much higher cost.
- [04:07]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
This chart that we're looking at, let's keep it up for a second guys, if we can. It breaks down the outlook. It's almost like ara, but they're basically saying that by the end of this decade there's going to be $60 billion in upside based on what Oracle told us relative to consensus, like what we saw happening. Anurag, you've built a deep coverage of this company. As an analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, can you explain materially what has changed for Oracle, what it is they're actually doing in the real world that's driving the potential growth?
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Anurag Rana (Bloomberg Intelligence Analyst)
I think the biggest thing is they are, you know, they have the latest infrastructure right now they were buying chips from Nvidia. They are creating bare metal computing for, for anybody to come out and host their application or if they want to train their large langu model or small language model, you know, this capacity is up for rental and then that's really the business Oracle is in. The big issue is right now there is a massive shortage of these kinds of computing capacity. So everybody is trying to get as much computing capacity as they can. So they are rushing to, you know, new clouds like Nabius or Core Weave for Oracle, Amazon, everybody, and I think everybody is there is beneficiary here, not just, you know, one particular data center. It's just that the only thing is Oracle's revenue base in cloud infrastructure was, you know, roughly around 10 billion a year ago or so in the last financial years. And then compared to, let's say, you know, Amazon's 125 billion or Azure's 75 billion.
- [05:37]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
Just very quickly, Anurag, I've known Oracle as a database software name and there seems to be a hard pivot. Is the hard pivot the right characterization?
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Anurag Rana (Bloomberg Intelligence Analyst)
Yeah, but the hard pivot started, I mean to be very honest, 20, 17, 20s, I mean it's, it's been, it's been going on for a while but a lot of that was for their own database business. Business and you know, in comes AI and everybody's looking for computing capacity and they're there to offer those services.
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Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
Anurag, stay with us because we have one other piece of news coming out of the Oracle story. After Oracle's results surpassed expectations, its co founder Larry Ellison has become the world's richest person for the first time ending Elon Musk's nearly year long reign in the top spot. Ellison's fortune soared $101 billion as of about 10am New York Times lifting his total fortune according to Bloomberg calculations and the billionaires index to 393 billion USD. Anurag, you're staying with us because I want to get back to another story that's top of mind Apple. Yesterday I was in Cupertino at Apple Park. You wrote that iPhone sales could still get a high single digit lift with this iPhone 17 generation. And like everyone, you are focused on pricing. Build out the rest of your thesis on that.
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Anurag Rana (Bloomberg Intelligence Analyst)
So when you look at consensus right now in unit shipments, it's only building in 1% increase of unit shipments and let's say 3 to 4% increase in iPhone sales. We have a slightly different view. We think the newer model, even though everybody says it's not the best thing out there, but I think it's still going to generate excitement in emerging markets. It's still going to force people that have not upgraded. A new form factor is an act of novelty. It's a new, new thing for people to hold. So you know, giving unit shipments of 3 to 5% is not a big deal. And then when you get a price uplift of that, that increases your average revenue per user and that actually takes it up to the 7, 8, 9% that we are talking about for the next financial year, which is FY26.
- [07:41]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
I do want to point out that the declines in Apple in this session have really Accelerated. We're down almost 3% on a two day basis, down 4 and a half percent. Biggest drop on a two day basis since May. But it's always a sell the news event. And then we'll look further afield on how the handset resonates. How big a factor of the carriers here in the United States in terms of the discounts?
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Anurag Rana (Bloomberg Intelligence Analyst)
Now they are very big factors because though those discounts are the one that forces people to go out and, you know, go out and get the new phone. Now what we have seen over the last several years, this is, you know, a trend for that we have observed for the last three, four years the refresh cycle is getting extended. There was a time people, the average life was roughly around four years or so. Now that's moving up a little. People are keeping it longer. But if you give them the incentive to go out and get a new phone, you know, you could, you could accelerate that. And the other thing that can accelerate that refresh cycle is if they launch any new features over the next six to 12 months.
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Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
So here's the question. An Iraq, which phone do you go out and get? Everyone's focused on the 5.6 millimeter thickness because it's a category in and of itself. Right. Samsung has the Galaxy S25 edge. People build this as the greatest hardware innovation from Apple on the iPhone in a long time. The technology matters. Does it matter to you and how you're modeling for it?
- [09:01]
Anurag Rana (Bloomberg Intelligence Analyst)
Yeah. See from our side, I think the pro model gets sold in the US More than anything else. And that's the way you have an inherent price increase of $100 because the lower memory phone is not available anymore. You're going to have to pick the 256, you know, gigabyte phone which comes at $100 price increase. So that's the one where we, we think it would be most sold in the US where the benefits are the highest in terms of carriers.
- [09:26]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
Anuragrana who leads our research on both Oracle and Apple at Bloomberg Intelligence. Thank you very much. Now coming up, we're going to talk to Klarna CEO Sebastian Shmielski is the company prepares to go public today. Caro, what do you got? Later this hour.
- [09:44]
Host/Anchor
So much right here in New York City. Primary summit is up. We've got founders, venture investors, but also sports people have become venture investors. With us as well. We've got Larry Fitzgerald is going to be joining the conversation and his work alongside Vasu Kulkarni who's of course Courtside Ventures partner Larry helps advise and thinks about strategy, whether it's about health, AI, whether about the future of sports. Martin Mino of Index Ventures also going to be with us. Really interesting day as we think about the IPOs in fintech. This is Bloomberg Tech Cybercriminals Count on chaos. Count on Veeam to stop them fast. Partner with them and get 24. 7 ransomware support from the first red flag to full recovery. Whatever the world throws at your data, it's all good. Learn more@veeam.com that's V E E A.
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Lisa Mateo (Amazon Ads Small Business Minute)
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- [12:14]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
Shares of Buy Now, Pay later firm Klarna are set to begin trading today. The company and some of its backers sold over 34 million shares at $40 each, giving Klarna a market value of about $15.1 billion. We're joined now by Klarna CEO Sebastian Shimon Koski. Sebastian, first of all, congratulations to you. Caroline and I have quizzed you over the years on when an IPO happens, why it happens. I just want to bring you some news, if I may. In the time that we've come on air, there's a headline on the Bloomberg terminal that the shares are indicated to open between 50 and $52 each. You price the IPO at 40. Just summarize your reaction to that and what it means to you on a day like today.
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Sebastian Shmielski (Klarna CEO)
I'm happy I didn't hear what you said on the price or I pretend not to hear it so I don't have to comment on it. We'll find out. Like, I'm, you know, I'm very, I'm very much looking forward to welcome new shareholders to the company. And I think there is decades of growth and opportunity ahead of ourselves. So I feel very excited about this.
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Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
Today we introduced you as a Buy now, pay later firm. But increasingly, when you've come on this program, we've talked about Klarna as an everything app. How does this IPO reposition you into that domain?
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Sebastian Shmielski (Klarna CEO)
Well, look, I think that was actually my biggest happy moment from the ipo. There were two from the roadshow. One, I got very few questions about Buy Now, Pay later and a lot about our card and how it's growing. We've signed up 700,000 new Americans in the last six weeks to our card. We have 5 million people on the waiting list. But the best part of the roadshow, I tell you, was when we signed into one to the reception at one of our investors. The guy in the reception said, oh, you're from Klarna. It's like, yes. Do you use it?
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Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
I love it.
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Sebastian Shmielski (Klarna CEO)
I use it all the time. And I was like, oh, but what could we do better? He's like, nothing, just get me the card. So that was the, that was the best moment from the whole roadshow.
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Host/Anchor
Sebastian. It's like a marketing event. When one goes public, you get your name in other people's mindset here in the United States. Will you go for a banking license? Talk us through where the growth story is going forward.
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Sebastian Shmielski (Klarna CEO)
Sure. No, look, there is, we have a bank license in Europe, as you're well aware of. We've had it for 10 years. It's fantastic. Gives us access to deposits. It's a very effective way of funding our balance sheet. Allows us actually to do it more cheaply than our competitors. But I think the key thing is in the US there's this group, McKinsey showed this in a study already 10 years ago. They're called self aware avoiders. These are people who've tried the credit card. It actually makes slightly more than your low income household and medium household income. They are, they tried a car, they tried revolving. They say it's the, it's the product of the devil. They don't want to get in $4,000 of credit card debt with, you know, 20, 30% interest. They love buying Alpilator and they love our card. They love the opportunity to put most things on debit and then occasionally put it on interest free installments. Very cost effective. So that's the target audience, 20% of the American households. And you know, now we have 26 million users in the US so we're seeing a lot of pickup.
- [15:14]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
You guys.
- [15:17]
Host/Anchor
Seeing pick up, you're seeing pick up in your shares. You are significantly oversubscribed as we told you, and you chose not to hear that. You're currently seeing shares being indicated much higher than even they priced at. Did you sell too low? I know you're a man that's had to stomach variations in your market capitalization and history. What does it mean to you to have a valuation out there in public more broadly every day?
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Sebastian Shmielski (Klarna CEO)
Well, look, to be honest, personally I'm not selling a single share in this ipo. I am, you know, a long term shareholder. I love this company. Been doing this for two decades. It's a long period of time. But fortunately I was 23 when we started, so I'm not that old yet. And I hope to continue for a few decades. And if you're truly going to disrupt retail banking and you know, and change this industry that has, you know, amassed so much excess profit because of the lack of competition, the lack of customer focus and you want to bring that back and you want to create a better service for customers, that's going to take some time though. This is not something you do overnight and I just look forward to doing that. And then investors will occasionally lean more into the future and occasionally lean more into profit today and so forth. And that will vary. And you know, it's up to everyone to take that decision for themselves.
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Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
Sebastian, the mechanism in this IPO is really important because you didn't raise like a huge amount of money. And on this program recently we've done all the reporting on some of your peers like Revolut, doing transactions to stay private deliberately. So you faced a choice and you chose to go public. What was the main motivation?
- [16:48]
Sebastian Shmielski (Klarna CEO)
I think, you know, again to your point, we only raised $200 million right in this IPO because the company is, you know, self sustainable from a capital perspective, doing really well. So there's no real need. I think that the, the key thing is we've had 20 years of private investors, employees who bought into the stock and over time it became quite, quite an effort to keep track of private transaction in Google sheets, right so now it's a little bit more efficient to trade the stock on the market. Gives people who's been with us for many decades the ability to get some liquidity out. But most people are not selling much. And at the same point of time, fantastic to welcome new shareholders to the cap table who want to join what we're trying to revolutionize in retail banking. So I'm super excited about.
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Host/Anchor
And it.
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Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
Sebastian, would you kind of illustrate outline what the competitive landscape looks like to you, who your competitors are, and also the regulatory headwinds that you're bracing for?
- [17:45]
Sebastian Shmielski (Klarna CEO)
Sure. I mean, people will always mention a firm revolut, and we are very impressed by those companies, very inspired by them. But the truth is, credit card industry is a $1.3 trillion revenue market. So I would say it's mostly the incumbents. They're all old banks that are, you know, the opportunity and where the competition is and where we can grab tons of market share. And the problem for them is, you know, if you have a credit card program that's running at 30% interest and you're revolving people at $4,000 and you look at Klarna's payment model where our average outstanding balance is $100 and 0% interest, you're not too keen. You don't want to jump into that. You don't want to lose all the profit you're making. But for us, there's just opportunity. There's upside down, you know, grab more market share, become larger. It works well for us. We make money out of that, you know, so it's. That's what we see as the primary competition on the regulatory side. Look, I think at the core of it, if 10 years from now, less people use credit cards and more people use debit cards and occasionally buy now, pay later, that's a better. That's a better society. And as we get the chance to sit down and take all the noise away from media and so forth and actually explain and show our losses are 30% lower than credit cards, our consumers are borrowing much less. You know, I had this conversation. I had a conversation with a customer. She was like, yeah, you. My mom called me and she was like, are you using this dangerous thing called buy now, pay later with Klarana? And she told her mom, she said, mom, you have a credit card, right?
- [19:12]
Martin Mino (Index Ventures Partner)
Yeah.
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Sebastian Shmielski (Klarna CEO)
How much debt do you have? $4,000. What's your interest? 30%. She's like, Mom, I'm borrowing $100 at 0% interest. Who is financially responsible? And you get those. That message across then you realize that regulators actually start embracing and seeing value in that. We're bringing competition to a market that has, you know, extracted excess profit out of customers by tactics that are not in the customer's best interest.
- [19:39]
Host/Anchor
And your tactic in many ways has been to embrace efficiency, adopting generative AI in the workforce, in particular within the product. How much more can you focus in on margins? How much more more are you going to have to keep hiring to scale and to sell?
- [19:54]
Sebastian Shmielski (Klarna CEO)
Well, the truth is, right, we haven't hired people for two years. We've shrank the company from 7000 to 3000, 7400 to 3000 people, which is fantastic. But I would say we probably over index a little bit on efficiency. And now the last six, nine months we've taken much more focus on how do we take all the learnings. We've used ourselves as employees, as guinea pigs for all this AI software, all these tools. We took out all the SaaS software, the Salesforce and all that. And now what we want to do, we want to bring that to our customers, we want to bring that to their merchants. We're very excited in the coming weeks and months to launch AI powered customer retail banking apps that we believe are going to be tremendously more valuable and create more value, save time, save money for our customers and make them feel in control of their finances. So it's very exciting to use AI now to create the next generation of financial services.
- [20:43]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
So Sebastian, you know, you're a public company now, so you have costly earnings. But I want to end by asking what the metric is that you will gauge Klarna's success by. What is the kind of milestone that you are holding your company to from this point?
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Sebastian Shmielski (Klarna CEO)
Well, it's very easy. You mentioned already Revolut in the firm Klan as focus in the last few years has been let's get as many users as possible. It's a bit like Facebook, right? You want to get as many users as possible. We're now at 111 million. That means, you know, a firm I think is less than 30, Revolut 50. We're 111 million users. But our revenue per customer is not like as much as there and that is it. You know, revenue per customer is the one metric now because we know that when we start launching things like the card, we see massive pickup from our audience. So now obviously we want to reach similar revenue per customer as we're seeing our main competitors. And that has the potential of bringing us from a revenue sized company as well to a different level. So that is the key metric right now, revenue per customer.
- [21:48]
Host/Anchor
Sebastian Shimon, Koski Kleiner, CEO of the Blockbuster Hat. We hope that bodes about the IPO rather than the future business model. We so appreciate you being here with us today live from the New York Stock Exchange. Now we are here in New York City, the other part of town, at Primary Summit. Now, this is all about the future of investing, the startups that you want to be in more broadly, and the way in which we're seeing investors take shape in the world of sports, in the world of AI, in the world of consumer health as well. So I just want to be digging deep into our next set of guests who are joining us today on the back of really the future of AI and sports with Vasil Kulkarni. Now, he himself a founder, but then became venture capitalist with Courtside Ventures. But Larry Fitzgerald as well, an NFL veteran now turned advisor and investor alongside Courtside Ventures. Gentlemen, it's wonderful, wonderful to be here with both of you. And first of all, start with you. You were once a founder, you're now an investor. What does the future of sports investing look like to you? Because when I look at your portfolio, there's a myriad of health tech, there's about collectibles, it's about fandom, but it's also about new types of sports and keeping them shorter and quicker.
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Vasu Kulkarni (Courtside Ventures Founder)
Yep, I think you hit it perfectly. Everyone who talks about sports today thinks about teams and leagues, but sports is so much larger than just that. Most people buy sports teams as a trophy asset, but then if you look at what they're doing today, they're developing the real estate around the stadium and creating many, many large business opportunities. For us on the venture side, it's always been about the fact that there's media opportunities, there's the world of collectibles. We just saw a Babe Ruth jersey sell last year for $32 million. That's a real asset class. Now we see the world of fitness and wellness and longevity. That's the, that's the name of the game this year, is how are you going to live to be 100 years old? To me, all of that is sports. It's not just what happens on the field. It's so much of what happens off the field as well. And those are the things that we've been investing in for the last 10 years. Now.
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Host/Anchor
Larry, you're a testament to that on the field, known as one of the best receivers of all time. But we think about what you do off the field, whether it's philanthropy, but it's about backing new ventures. Where is your sweet spot at the moment? Where have you thought that the world of sport has changed and where you didn't really foresee that you've made money on?
- [24:01]
Larry Fitzgerald (NFL Veteran and Investor)
Well, there's a lot of different verticals. Like you take for instance, flag football. It's coming to the. It's going to be an Olympic sport in 2028. Like, how is it that we can get young ladies to be able to participate in the game that they love? You know, 50% of our fans are women and they're not able to participate. They're not able to put helmets and shoulder pads on like the boys are. But how can we give them that avenue to be able to continue to follow their passion? They watch with their brothers and their father, fathers and others in their schools and support their fantasy football team. So I look at emerging sports like I still think women's sports is the most undervalued asset class in sports and you see what unrivaled Bessemer just let their recent round. And like, I just think that, that, that, that expansion and opportunities is endless.
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Host/Anchor
Flag football is taking my world upstate by storm. Tell you what also is pickleball. I know you're backing that. I know cricket is an area that almost led the charge in making things more competitive, consumable, more Pacey. Is there a side effect of making everything for those that have a lack of attention span nowadays?
- [24:57]
Larry Fitzgerald (NFL Veteran and Investor)
I don't think so. I think you have your purists. You know, my dad, he sits down and watches the game on network TV like everybody else. But my sons, they have no interest in watching the entire football game. They want to watch Red Zone. They want to see the snippets. They want to see Justin Jefferson's touchdown catches, Chase Jamar Chase's touchdowns. They want to see it quick and easy and they want to see what they're doing on their fantasy teams. That's how they consume it, you know, and so we have to be able to give it to them and buy size pieces like the way they want to consume it. We can't do everything the way my dad wanted to do. If this is the younger consumers watching it in a different way and this.
- [25:29]
Host/Anchor
Is where your expertise versus on content and media consumption comes in. Where are you seeing the innovation coming from? What kind of founders are coming into the game? I mean, Alex Rodriguez is someone that you've backed, of course, A Rod is someone that we know well on our network. He has backed future of media. But where are some of the more innovation coming in when it comes?
- [25:45]
Vasu Kulkarni (Courtside Ventures Founder)
You're seeing sort of a lot of new emerging leagues come in with new types of content. So we just backed a company called Baller League that's based out of Germany, which is now 6 on 6 football. You can't kick the ball backwards behind midfield, so it creates action. It's 250 minutes football. We're talking your football, your football, not.
- [26:02]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
Our kind of football.
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Vasu Kulkarni (Courtside Ventures Founder)
That's exactly right. And two 15 minute halves. So it's basically made for content to be consumed on a cell phone. And oh, by the way, every one of the teams in that league is operated by a streamer or a content creator that has probably more than 30 to 40 million followers on Instagram or Twitter or TikTok. So on day one, you're talking about an audience that's already there. Historically, the NBA, the NFL, it took them several decades to get to the point where they could go get a media rights deal, start to get the sponsorship revenue in and become a real business. These leagues are able to do it overnight. In the first year they can generate tens of millions of dollars in revenue because they can now go straight and free to stream on Twitch or YouTube. So they don't have to wait for the ESPN or the Sky Sports to show up and give them a deal. They're already, they've already got the audience, which means the sponsors are now coming instantly. And those are the types of business that we find really interesting.
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Host/Anchor
I mean Vassar, you're the self proclaimed biggest basketball fan there is, hence courtside.
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Larry Fitzgerald (NFL Veteran and Investor)
An average player too.
- [27:01]
Host/Anchor
Sometimes those things go hand in hand. I'm interested in Basu about how you think fandom fits into all of this and how ultimately we still want to spend on the things that we love. How are you thinking about collectibles, the way in which that pivots to a digital side?
- [27:16]
Martin Mino (Index Ventures Partner)
Yes.
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Vasu Kulkarni (Courtside Ventures Founder)
I don't want to say we're the anti AI fund because we do invest in AI companies, but when I think about 100 years from now and I has eaten just about every industry in the world, I hope that we still want to watch humans play sports and not robots.
- [27:29]
Host/Anchor
Not robots.
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Vasu Kulkarni (Courtside Ventures Founder)
Right. And if that is true, then I think everything that we're investing in here today will still be around. Hopefully 100 years from now. It may look slightly different, but it'll still be here. And when you talk about the world of collectibles, you think back to mankind as a hunter and gatherer. I think from the earliest cavemen, we've had this innate desire to hunt and gather. Back then it was for food. Today we don't have to hunt for our own food, but we still have that desire to hunt for things. And to me, those are the world.
- [27:57]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
That's the world of collectibles.
- [27:58]
Vasu Kulkarni (Courtside Ventures Founder)
And so whether it's watches, handbags, sports memorabilia, trading cards, Pokemon cards, this is a $600 billion industry that is just starting to see the light of technology. It was sort of ebay for the first 20 years of the Internet. And now you're going to see a whole host of new companies that are going to create better buyer and seller experiences for all of us who want to collect things.
- [28:19]
Host/Anchor
Larry, I'm sure in many ways the deals hunt you and people come to you with their innovation and their ideas in the world of sports and media and content. But what have you looked to hunt out? Where have you found that having been an athlete, your edge can lead to courtsides?
- [28:36]
Larry Fitzgerald (NFL Veteran and Investor)
ALPHA Well, I think it's really important you have an inside look of what sports looks like and also like what people are talking about, what they're interested in. You know, so I'll look at a company like, you know, Tomorrow Sports who is essentially stood up a business that took, you know, your grandfather's game. It made it something that young people will want to watch in an indoor stadium environment. Right. And expanding that, you know, now to the west coast. And you think about innovation of games that were maybe older games and finding new innovative ways to be able to make it experiential. And I think people, no matter how much AI and technology evolves, like there's a communal aspect to what we like in sports. Like you sit next to a guy at a Giants game and your favorite player score the touchdown and you high five. And you have no idea who they are or where they're from. But you're sharing this moment together. And I think the more that you can create that, the stronger the sports experience will be.
- [29:28]
Host/Anchor
What's interesting is there's a very global nature of the portfolio. And I'm fascinated that you're backing cricket, but you're also thinking about, well, the way in which very American, uniquely American sports, your own sport, football, become a global in nature. Basketball is doing that. How are you seeing when we're seeing a world that is almost anti global globalization from an economic perspective right now, becoming more globalized when it comes to fandom and when it comes to sports?
- [29:51]
Larry Fitzgerald (NFL Veteran and Investor)
Well, I think sports is really unique because it transcends race, it transcends religion, it's the one thing that you can do and not have to talk about politics or worry about those type of things. So like when I went to India years ago and I saw, I was, I was at an event with Sachin, one of the best cricket players in the world and I saw he had a 10 team security detail, police officers and people would literally, they weren't asking for autographs, they were literally just trying to touch his, touch his shirt, right. And so I thought, wow, he's almost a deity. You know, I've been around a lot of high profile athletes. I've never seen anybody respond the way he did. Then I saw the IPL at the time and only had eight teams in the league. And I look at India, it has over 40 different cities that have over a million people in population that absolutely love the game. And you look here, the Green Bay packers, the Pittsburgh Steelers, the Memphis Grizzlies, these all cities that are nowhere near 500,000 people, 600,000 people, and they still support these franchises in a massive way. To think about the expansion, what could happen in a global sport that's followed around the world. And so it was really intriguing for me to invest in that well, to.
- [30:54]
Host/Anchor
Be able to keep on investing, doing a philanthropic work as well as being a key, well your deity here for many when it thinks of the game and Vassu. So appreciate your time here thinking about the world in which we create valuations, innovation in a maybe not totally pro or all in on AI way. We thank you Vessel Kochani, Larry Fitzgerald from Courtside Ventures and taking it back to you in San Francisco.
- [31:16]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
Awesome interview in the private sector space venture Space Sports. Absolutely love that coverage. Let's get back to some of the technology sector movers in the public markets. Right. First of all, Oracle, we're now up 42%. This is the biggest jump on Oracle shares since 1992. It propels that name into the top 10 biggest companies on the S&P 500. It makes Larry Ellison the world's richest person. And it's all about our outlook, not just for this fiscal year on cloud, but all the way through the 2030. And there are a number of analysts out there saying we are in shock at these numbers. To the downside, a very different story. This is synopsis. A company that makes software for chip design. The stock's down 35%, biggest drop in history. Why? Because they're getting hit by export restrictions from the United States to China. And what they've tried to do is like work very hard on their own intellectual property. But that export of American technologies to China being controlled or banned, that is materially and directly hit sales. And that's the story of that name. We'll continue to track it. Elsewhere in technology news, Joby shares surging as it expands its partnership with Uber. As early as next year, customers will be able to book Joby's helicopter and seaplane services within the Uber app. I want to get to Bloomberg's Natalie Long, who's here in San Francisco. You and I talk about Uber, Joby, some of the Robotaxi names all the time. Most people would know Joby as an evtol or flying air taxi company. But in the near term, you need to be really specific about this deal with Uber and what the offering will be to the consumer.
- [32:53]
Aisha Evans (Zoox CEO)
And so it really speaks to the.
- [32:55]
Reporter/Correspondent
Opportunity that Joby have here. In the future, people would be able to download the Uber app and hail.
- [33:02]
Aisha Evans (Zoox CEO)
Blade helicopters on their app.
- [33:05]
Reporter/Correspondent
Right now it's available in New York, in parts of Southern Europe, and so.
- [33:10]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
It will be available to the millions.
- [33:12]
Sebastian Shmielski (Klarna CEO)
Of people who already have the Uber.
- [33:13]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
App on their phone. Another story you and I have tracked together is what's happening happening in Atlanta in the Robotaxi race. The news is Lyft and made mobility a partnership. And some rides in that market are not really true. Robotaxi rides, yes.
- [33:28]
Reporter/Correspondent
So Lyft is finally launching their AV cars with main mobility in Atlanta today. And there will be a safety operator.
- [33:36]
Aisha Evans (Zoox CEO)
At the beginning as they sort of.
- [33:38]
Reporter/Correspondent
Acclimate customers to driverless rides and sort of take over whenever needed. And it would also have limited operating.
- [33:45]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
Hours at the beginning. Lyft shares up almost 3%. Direct correlation with the news. We don't, we don't necessarily know, but Bloomberg's Natalie Long, terrific reporting, really worth tracking what she's looking at in the mobility space. Sticking with the world of autonomous vehicles, today Zoox is officially launching its service on and around the Las Vegas strip. It marks a first in the United States for a purpose built for Robotaxi that has no driver controls giving rides to member of the members of the public zoo. CEO Evans joins us now from Las Vegas. Okay, finally it's happened and I give our audience the context that you and I have been talking about this for a very long time. There's limits to the service at first. Aisha said to start explain the parameters of what you're doing today and how you expand it.
- [34:35]
Aisha Evans (Zoox CEO)
Thank you. Good morning and thank you again for having me. I actually had a bet that finally was going to be the first thing out of your mouth. So look, we. Yes, we finally launched it essentially to the public, which is really nice. There's an app. Please download it if you're in Vegas and also, by the way, if you're in San Francisco, it's coming soon, so you'll get on the wait list there. But let's get back to Vegas. Essentially, we're starting with five locations. Resort World New York, New York, Area 15, Luxor and Topgolf. And you can go from one to any of those locations and then 11am to 1am and yeah, you basically call it and it comes and gets you and takes you to your location and you enjoy the experience. And we hope you do it over and over again. And you also tell us about it so that we can keep learning. It's free of charge, by the way. For now too.
- [35:30]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
Yes. I show a question that actually comes from our audience is, is a point of clarification. Does the rider in the first instance have a choice in the locations that they go to? In other words, they can say through the app, I want to go from point A to point B. Or do you have to follow a predetermined route?
- [35:49]
Aisha Evans (Zoox CEO)
Nope, you have a choice. You pick your location and we will pick the best right route at the time to get you there. You might go to the same location in between two locations several times and go slightly different way because we'll adjust depending on what's going on around the, around the strip. So you pick your location and we take you there.
- [36:07]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
The technology difference with Zoox is that it is a vehicle that has no steering wheel and no pedals. It has four inward facing seats. But you have been slower to deploy to the public than other robotaxi companies that use retrofitted construction, consumer vehicles that do have driver controls. Was it worth it giving up first mover advantage to go down the regulatory path and the relationship path that you have with various cities?
- [36:37]
Aisha Evans (Zoox CEO)
Oh, it was definitely worth it. First of all, I mean, I think we've been deliberate, is how I like to call it, and very measured. This is the beginning of a massive wave that will be a big market and that will frankly change how people move around cities and, and beyond. And so it was definitely worth it because the experience is magical, because we've done it right. We've gone to the final solution from the beginning. We've learned a lot along the way. We've thought about serviceability, we've been rider obsessed, we've thought about the business and operations at scale. And so we are absolutely thrilled with the path we've chosen, I will start very young, at a young age, do it right.
- [37:18]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
The first time I've been on the Las Vegas Strip in the Zoox vehicle, actually more than once, you know, the experience is more akin to getting into an airport shuttle. With respect, you don't feel like you're in a consumer car. You opened up the availability today. Is there a sort of wait list arrangement in Las Vegas? Was the demand so great that you have a backlog of people to onboard or what has the response been?
- [37:47]
Aisha Evans (Zoox CEO)
The response has been awesome. As you know, we've been carrying members of the public, but on fixed route just to get our bearings and get everything ready. And I frankly, I undercall the demand. So I think I need to get out of the demand forecasting business. As far as Las Vegas from today onward, there's no wait list. You essentially sign up and you ride. And I'm a little nervous today because I'm like, oh my gosh, I hope it's not too many people because obviously we want to, want to provide a great experience. Experience, but it's going to be wonderful. We are, we are, we're just thrilled to bring this to people. As you know, we've been at this for over a decade. We've been measured, we've had a very consistent vision. We, you know, it will have to be resilient. And we, we are excited to share this with others.
- [38:38]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
What is the strategy to start charging fares first in Las Vegas and then later in San Francisco?
- [38:44]
Aisha Evans (Zoox CEO)
So what you can expect is first of all, everything is always pending regulatory approval. But what you can expect in, in Vegas is that we will be adding more and more locations. You know, this is the entertainment capital of the world, so we have a pretty good idea of where people like to go and why. And more robots, more destinations will also be upgrading the customer experience along the way and after regulatory approval. And the end is very important. After we've also had all of the learnings that we're seeking so that we can, we have really a delightful, consistent, magical experience. We'll start collecting fare.
- [39:24]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
Zig CEO Aisha Evans, thank you very much. AI coding startup Replit has raised $250 million in a new funding round that nearly triples its valuation to $3 billion. Prism Capital is leading the financing round, which includes investors such as American Express Ventures and Google's AI Futures Fund. With existing backers including Andreessen Horowitz and Y Combinator. It's a sign of strong investor demand for companies using AI for software. Development. Right, Carol?
- [40:01]
Host/Anchor
Right. Let's keep talking about the how haves to have nots, who's got the money, who's got the checks, whether it's all about I. Marta Mino is with us, partner at Index Ventures, helped found its New York City presence here back in 2022, who now sits with me at Primary Summit. Summit. Right here in the city we see the extraordinary valuations of generative AI enabling companies. Is that really where the activity still is? Is there room and oxygen in the room for others?
- [40:29]
Martin Mino (Index Ventures Partner)
I think that's where the majority of the activity is. We see about two thirds of our deals are in the Genii space but it also other big areas that are still very active. You know we still do a lot in health care, there's a lot in fintech, so it's not all gen AI. The other thing is that gen AI is becoming everything, you know, you talking about health care while a lot of the activity in healthcare is genaid, you know, optimizing backup office, improving patient interactions. So I think this distinction is going to become obsolete very, very soon.
- [41:04]
Host/Anchor
Well, we just had Sebastian of Klarna as the company goes public, he very clear adopter of generative AI within his FinTech business. It's a European star that's listed in America. You have a European and UK based star. And Revolut, how hot is the fintech space going to be after this successful exit? It looks like it's, yeah.
- [41:22]
Martin Mino (Index Ventures Partner)
First of all congrats to, to Klarna, what looks to be a very successful, successful IPO. I think it's a fantastic precedent for European companies. 15 billion plus. It's a, it's an amazing, amazing outcome for, for a great and very unique business. I think it shows that you can build giant technological companies from Europe which, you know, there are some doubters out there I think, you know, with, with Spotify and Adyen and Klarna and then in the future the likes of Revolut, this is coming, you know, again, again and again. I think the reality with Fintech is there were a lot of doubters, you know, saying, well you know, how are they going to replace banks, how are they going to compete effectively? The cost of capital is higher and so on and so forth. And I think what you're seeing is a lot of incredible businesses being created that are increasingly taking market share and customers by being way more customer friendly, adopting new tools, offering new products way faster. And Klan is a good example of that and Revolut is hopefully an even better example of that.
- [42:23]
Host/Anchor
I mean you are all in on the EU on European success stories. But you and I are both European transplants. Moving here to America is the reality that the liquidity is here. When companies eventually do go public, they're going to want to come to the US capital markets.
- [42:38]
Martin Mino (Index Ventures Partner)
I think in general the US capital markets are all deeper. There's more capital, there is more analyst, there's more knowledge. So there's clearly a geographical network effect that is happening, is getting stronger with every ipo the pool gets stronger and stronger. So I think there is, you know, this is the primary market, this is the most obvious markets for most companies. Not only European, you know, the same for look at nubank, another fintech darling listed in New York as well. Although only present in, mostly in Brazil and Latin America. So, so it's not a European only phenomenon. What I would say is, you know, if I were a European market I would try to, to be way more competitive. It's not only about being on par with US market, it's about offering more to entrepreneurs and founders, to early investors to make sure you can, you can attract them and you can compete. Otherwise this geographical network effect, we just keep on getting stronger. And yes, most European companies will end up being, being listed here.
- [43:37]
Host/Anchor
Look, you offer a lot to founders and index ventures and what an extraordinary year you're having. I'm thinking about the Figma IPO success. You've had significant exits. When I think of M and A and Wiz, how does that change the inbound that you're getting when everyone is seeing index so clearly on the map? It always has been from a geographical perspective. WINS in the U.S. in Israel and Europe.
- [43:59]
Martin Mino (Index Ventures Partner)
Yeah, it's. We do have a lot of, we do have a lot of inbound. It's been a, it's been a fantastic year, kind of overnight success, 10, 15 years in the making. You know like Figma, we've been investors for, for way more than 10 years. So you know, it's all happening now in some ways because the market is open, the window is open. But they have been relationship that we've been working with for, for decade, decade plus and that where we bet very early on, on these very young founders. You know, I mean Dylan was, was 19 when we first invested in him was still an intern. You know Alex at scale was 21 with you know, Assaf. We've been working with him for, in his previous business already. So more than a decade. So those are very, very long term relationships that happen to materialize in some exits now. But I think that's the way we think about the business. It's not about, oh, the market's open, let's invest more and let's have a quick, you know, make a quick buck. You know, we are investing in the very long term and investments we make now, we know they're going to take a decade plus to flourish and turn into very large, hopefully independent and public companies.
- [45:07]
Host/Anchor
And that makes LPs excited and committed to stay with you. Very briefly, how's it changing the landscape of VC though?
- [45:14]
Martin Mino (Index Ventures Partner)
The there is a bit of a meme out there where people thinking that this is all going to follow the hedge fund and, and especially the product with the industry where you either go very, very big or you stay very, very niche and there is no place in between. I think our view at Index is slightly different where we believe there is actually a middle ground that is the best not, not necessarily for, for the GPS and the VCs themselves, but definitely for the entrepreneurs where you need enough scale to support entrepreneurs on a global basis. You know, we cover from Tel Aviv, San Francisco. You need to offer them the services that they need in terms of hiring, in terms of marketing, in terms of sales and customer development. So you need a certain size to pay for that infrastructure. But you also don't want to be too big that you become a corporation and you know, you have kind of a conveyor belt of founders and there's no individual relationship. Again, we're investing in people very early on, very often in their journey when they are 19, 20, 21. And that requires to a level of empathy, a little understanding that takes just this interpersonal, interpersonal relationship that you lose when you get to a very large scale. The very large scale can be very good for the themselves but not necessarily what the founders really, really need. And so I think that's why we're sticking to that, that kind of middle size. We think that's the best approach.
- [46:39]
Host/Anchor
Martin Minion from Index Ventures. We so appreciate having him here for the interpersonal relationship that keeps on going. Meanwhile, stick around in the next hour for an interview with New York Governor Kathy Hochul. Right here, here from Primary Summit in New York.
- [46:52]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
And okay, coming up, first responders have told Bloomberg that the design of some Tesla features such as mechanical releases for the doors can add complication in the chaotic moments after a crash. We're going to have the details next on a deep Bloomberg investigation. This is Bloomberg Tech.
- [47:19]
Lisa Mateo (Amazon Ads Small Business Minute)
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Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
Features on Tesla's electric vehicles, including battery powered door handles and mechanical releases, have complicated crashes in emergency situations. In particular, when Teslas lose power, crashes can turn into deadly races against time. Reporting by Bloomberg News has found that regulators have been slow to act and complaints about Tesla's doors have piled up. I want to bring in Bloomberg's done a whole part of the team that reported this. What we're talking about in particular is the mechanical override partly in the rear doors of some Tesla vehicles that you need to use in the event that in an accident a Tesla vehicle loses power. Take us from that point and explain the investigation that Bloomberg News did.
- [50:17]
Reporter/Correspondent
Yes, so to back up for a second, Tesla's to all Tesla vehicles have two batteries. There is the battery that powers the car and dictates the range. And then there's a low voltage battery, typically 12 volts. In the Cybertruck, it's 48 volts. That powers things like the windows, the doors and the touch screen. If you lose power, whether because that low voltage battery dies or you're in a crash, the doors lock and you have to get out. You have to know where the mechanical release is. And finding that mechanical release can be really challenging.
- [50:47]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
There have been some events, case studies, examples in recent years where in fatal crashes the, the, the role or the function of the mechanical overrides was a factor. Can you explain what we learned?
- [51:04]
Reporter/Correspondent
Yes, there have been several crashes. And the trick about crashes is that unfortunately a lot of the people are dead, so we can't interview them. But I found a crash in Virginia where this couple was in a terrible crash. Scores of people ran to their aid to try to help them and they could not open the doors from the outside. They had to break a window in order to finally reach in and use the job. Use hydraulic cutters to cut the door open.
- [51:29]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
This is a deeply reported, it's a long form written piece, so I would say to the audience, go out and read it. Has Tesla responded to our reporting?
- [51:38]
Reporter/Correspondent
They have not. I mean, they were given an opportunity to respond, but they, they typically don't engage.
- [51:42]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
Have any of the relevant regulatory agencies engaged with us on the reporting?
- [51:47]
Reporter/Correspondent
Not really. And I think the thing that's important to note is that there's really a gap in terms of how the regulations around these crashes are currently laid out. Crash testing in the United States really focuses on how well does a Tesla does a vehicle perform in like a rollover crash? And Tesla has an exemplary safety record, five stars across all categories in many ways. But our crash testing doesn't look at what happens to a human being after a crash. How easy is it to get out of the vehicle? Vehicle, how easy is it for first responders to get in? And you're seeing more and more cars with electric door handles and very strong glass that, that's making egress more difficult.
- [52:26]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
I drive a Tesla vehicle, as you know, and actually the regular viewers of the show know I've never been in a crash and I've never had to be in a situation where I've used the manual override because the battery's lost power.
- [52:35]
Reporter/Correspondent
You know where your manual override?
- [52:37]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
I do. So it's different between the front, which is basically a latch in the rear where you remove a pad, and there is a wire mechanism. What I understood from sources in assisting in the reporting a little bit was that you think about the cybertruck in particular. Could you explain why the design or the shape of the vehicle requires such a mechanism in the rear away from battery just very quickly?
- [52:59]
Reporter/Correspondent
Yeah. Well, the doors are very flat or very flat. So there's not as much room inside, inside the, the door panel. The door panel for that, for those, those electronic releases. And I think also child safety latches is also a big part of it. You don't want kids to be able to easily open a door from the back seat. But then the, the downside is that it's very difficult to get out.
- [53:19]
Host/Anchor (possibly co-anchor with A)
Bloomberg's done a hole with the Bloomberg. Big take. Go and read it. We asked Tesla for comment. We invite Tesla to comment if and when they're ready to do so. That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech. Up next, New York Governor Kathy Hochul joins Bloomberg TV from the primary summit. That's a conversation with Caroline that you do not want to miss. Coming up, a lot happened in the show actually on a market basis. It was a historic day for Oracle, for Larry Ellison. We recapped Apple and the iPhone 17 generation event. And that big take on Tesla, that's the podcast. You know where to find it from San Francisco, from New York, this is Bloomberg Tech.
- [53:58]
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