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- [00:01]
Deloitte Representative
The right technology can strengthen human judgment. That's why Deloitte brings together AI and data analytics with multidisciplinary teams who can help you connect the dots across your enterprise, from risk to operations to customer needs. So opportunities don't slip by and surprises don't spread. Because the smarter your systems, the sharper your instincts. That's how technology makes people better at what they do best. Deloitte Together makes progress. Learn more@deloitte.com TogetherMakesProgress okay, before we get
- [00:35]
Windows 11 Pro Promoter
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- [01:07]
Cincinnati Insurance Narrator
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Caroline Hyde
Studios podcasts Radio News. Bloomberg Tech is live from coast to coast with Caroline Hyde in New York
- [02:26]
Cincinnati Insurance Narrator
and Ed Ludlow in San Francisco.
- [02:31]
Ed Ludlow
This is Bloomberg Tech. Coming up, Bloomberg News pulls back the curtains on Apple's revamped Siri design ahead of its WWDC debut.
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Caroline Hyde
Plus, Snowflake jumps the most since 2020 after the software maker gave a stronger outlook and signed a $6 billion deal with Amazon. We'll hear from the CEO and Matter
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Ed Ludlow
introduces paid chat bot subscriptions to help offset its infrastructure costs.
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Caroline Hyde
First, we look at infrastructure and how actually an infrastructure deal with Amazon is helping some in the narrative around Snowflake Extraordinary move, the biggest in the stock since 2020, we're looking at 34% gain after a 34% gain in product revenue for this company. It was a beat, it was a raise. And there's real acceleration in people using their AI coding tool. In particular, $22 billion added in market cap. So much to digest today at a
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Ed Ludlow
lot of news headlines this morning. One coming from the information that Microsoft next week is going to introduce a coding model, a model focused on coding, a marketplace. We've covered so much of late, the stock off session highs but we saw gains three and a half, almost 4%. So the market taking it seriously. If we hear more, we'll give you more.
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Caroline Hyde
We will. And now we can give you more on what to expect with Apple's Siri overhaul because it's going to take center stage in the company's next major software update. And Bloomberg News has details on what to expect ahead of the WWDC debut. Now these Bloomberg creator get illustrations. They offer a look at the revamped Siri interface including a new chatbot style app that the images that you're currently looking at, they're based on information viewed by Bloomberg and people with knowledge of the company's plans. Well, who brings us those plans? It's Bloomberg Consumer Tech and Apple Managing editor Mark Gurman. So the look, the feel is really building on some of the updates we've had in the past and improving them.
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Mark Gurman
Well, I'll just say this, this is an incredibly exciting moment for Apple. I think consumers should be pumped. What Apple is doing here is they've seen thing that OpenAI and Google and Anthropic have done. They believe that AI has a place at the center of its products and they're finally going to implement that. So this is a really big deal for consumers. People have been clamoring for a version of Siri that works properly for the better part of 15 years. And my strong belief is we are finally going to get that this fall. So I see this as a major development and accomplishment for Apple in its quest to try to bring AI to the max masses taking a slightly different tack than their rivals in the space.
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Ed Ludlow
Mark, there's two parts to this as you report it. There's the standalone Siri app, let's say it's akin to a chat GPT app. And then there's how you interact with Siri on the screen of your phone. You know, however you open up the phone, we're going to go through some of the images that you included in the story. But could you just explain those two parts that we're detailing? And as we cycle through the images. We're showing them on the screen right now. Again, these are Bloomberg generated images based on our reporting, both discussions with sources and documentation that we viewed. But those two new features, please.
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Mark Gurman
So to launch Siri today, you say obviously the Siri wake word or hey Siri, if you have an older device or you can hold down the power button that continues and there's a new animation that pops out of the dynamic island. Obviously they added that with the 14 Pro back in 2022. So this is with modern iPhone hardware in mind. The second thing you can do is swipe down from the top center of the iPhone. So how you open notifications today will be how you open a new Siri interface called search or ask. And that essentially takes you into a type to Siri interface, basically a system wide AI agent. You can tell it to get things done on your behalf. You can do searches on your device as well as the open web. So there's a perplexity competitor from Apple, built by Apple, developed by Apple, designed by Apple in there as well. And then there is the Siri app. You know, chat bots have taken the world by storm. Chatbots has nearly a billion users. People are using Gemini, people are using Claude. This is clearly something that people want. So this is a product, an app in line with what you're getting from Google Gemini, obviously, as we reported last year, the underlying models for a lot of these new technologies in Siri are powered by Gemini and running on Google's cloud infrastructure.
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Caroline Hyde
How worried should like a Chachi beat should Open Air be right now? You reported that maybe they were considering legal action. Is this going to be a real standalone competitor?
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Mark Gurman
Well, we've seen this time and time again where Apple releases a standalone app of its own that's built into the operating system. I think Chat GPT has the strongest brand. Siri doesn't have a very strong brand. I still think they should rebrand the whole effort. That's neither here nor there, at least for now. But definitely having a chat bot built into iOS, macOS, iPadOS, north of 2 billion devices, that is threatening, I would say to Gemini, to Chat GPT and to Claude, especially if over time Apple's able to make it really competitive to what you're seeing to Chat GPT. So we'll have to see how this plays out over time. But at least, you know, in the short term a lot of people are going to be introduced to the concept of a chat bot or a conversational AI interface who haven't used it before. Despite the popularity of chatbots.
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Ed Ludlow
Bloomberg's Mark Gurman, thank you very much. Let's get to another story. Shares of Salesforce up about a percentage point. Kind of a muted move. And you're going to understand why in a few minutes time. The company gave a revenue outlook for the current period that just fell short of analyst estimates. Bloomberg's Brody Ford covering Salesforce with us now. We're kind of waiting for a different story in a minute's time, which might give us some context on that move. But what was the story of Salesforce? Forget the outlook. The numbers were they said application companies
- [08:42]
Brody Ford
are trying to reinvent themselves as AI companies. And so Salesforce came out and said, we have an AI product that's kind of ramping in revenue. We have all these positive traction points, performance, but our core products for, you know, sales and service are slowing down. And so it's. How quickly can they reinvent themselves? At this point, not very. I mean, they're up a percentage point today. But if that chart zooms out, it has not been a rosy picture for Salesforce in the last year or two.
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Caroline Hyde
It's down 30% year to date. Brody, I loved your content on LinkedIn. Just showing that basically all earnings calls are now turning into podcasts. So they're trying to reframe and rebrand the way in which they present these results. But Mark Benioff is saying this is still a record quarter. So how do we get more confident that there is going to be that second half inflection on organic growth?
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Brody Ford
Yeah, it's just that reacceleration story, right? I mean, their biggest products keep slowing down. They've done acquisitions, they've added new products and so there's kind of a lot of rosy things to look at. But until that kind of core sales, cloud, service cloud that really built their house, until that speeds back up due to AI, they're going to stay in that penalty box.
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Ed Ludlow
Should we just very quickly talk about the actual story today? Team, throw it up on the screen. Snowflake is going absolutely parabolic.
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Brody Ford
Yeah, why? It's a tale of two cities, right? I mean, Snowflake makes data infrastructure software. So a lot of companies have their most important, important data sitting in Snowflake and they have to use it if they want to do all these cool air features on top of it. And we're seeing in the numbers that demand for Snowflakes products is kind of going gangbusters. So they had a great day.
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Trinity Kajuria
They did.
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Caroline Hyde
And Brody Ford, you're going to stick with us to talk about a little bit more Snowflake. So you can see that move means it's added $22 billion to its market capitalization. I mean, after beating expectations, look, they've also locked in that massive $6 billion infrastructure deal with Amazon. We could talk about that with Brody in a minute. But first of all of all, just hear from the Snowflake CEO himself, Sridhar Ramaswamy. We spoke to him earlier.
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Sridhar Ramaswamy
First of all, they're a longtime partner. They are the biggest cloud service provider that we run on top of it, on top of Azure as well. At gcp. The important thing with Amazon is how we go to our customers together. Both teams are extraordinary value that we deliver for our. For our customers. And with deals like this, we get massive economies of scale that let us pass on some of these savings back to our customers. We announced a huge change in how we price AI that makes a lot less expensive for our customers. It's aided by deals like this because of this ability to bulk purchase confidently, which, as I said, in turn, we give to our customers, create amazing products on top. This deal makes us much more effective together. Amazon is interested in solving customer problems and having a data platform is a key part of solving customer problems. Us being able to go to market together, we work at every level of the hierarchy. Matt and I are. Garma, the CEO and I are in constant touch, but so are our teams. It's that ability to collaborate at a deep level to solve complex problems, for example like metadata migration, that makes us pretty unique. It is truly a better together story.
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Ed Ludlow
What timing Caroline's conversation with the CEO of Snowflake. Some audio issues there. That's tech happens. Is this stock up 35% because of a compute deal with us, or is it up for a different reason? Like, it's really difficult in this moment to see the impact of that relationship in how the market's cheering the name today.
- [12:32]
Brody Ford
It seems that most of the rally is due to their own products and the fact that they have a pretty strong outlook. But the Amazon deal is interesting because a big part of the software story right now is when you're spending all of this money on lens on AI features that does hurt your margins. And so anything that companies are able to do to get economies of scale and drive costs down, which appears to be what's happening, that's also good news.
- [12:57]
Caroline Hyde
I mean, Ed will know this more than anyone, that the Graviton offering that comes from us and the idea in your story, you make clear that maybe they're pushing towards that because of these efficiency gains and we're going to hear from Sridhar a little bit later in the show about that. Brody but more broadly, how are we seeing the adoption of coding tools, Cortex in particular 7,000 more than subscriptions. Is that a lot when you're thinking about the competitors out there?
- [13:21]
Brody Ford
It's interesting because a lot of application platforms they've had their own tools like a coding assistance system or other productivity tools right there in the platform. In a lot of cases we hadn't seen great uptake for it. And so Snowflake saying hey actually the coding tool that we're putting on here is being used. It is driving revenue. That's kind of new. We haven't seen that from a ton of other companies. And so I think that's a pretty significant positive point that's being reacted to here.
- [13:50]
Caroline Hyde
And you just think about where Sridhar comes from. Like his whole business, AI business was bought by Snowflake Neva before. So no wonder he's managing to integrate it. Bloomberg's Brody Ford. Great, thank you. Thanks for joining. Coming up Navy is going to be joining us. Making a major push towards electric Marine Travel. Deploying 100 electric vehicle vessels. They are across the Maldives. How nice because speaking with the CEO next this Bloomberg Tech.
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Ed Ludlow
Us based maritime technology company Navia is deploying 100 electric vessels across the Maldives to build an inter island transportation network linking airports, resorts, local communities. Roll up marks a major milestone for electrified marine mobility. Joining us now is Navia CEO some pretty bhattacharya back on Bloomberg Tech and with respect last time you're on the program Navier was in a very different place. Just getting started fast forward you're going to put 100 of your vessels in a really interesting market and you really ramping up commercially with with $100 million deal. Let's start with the Maldives piece. When we last spoke you weren't looking at this kind of luxury into island market. Now you are why?
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Someya Bhattacharya
Actually we always saw the potential for you know transportation with the N30 for islands. But what is interesting here is that Maldives is this place where there's a natural need for the technology and that aligns very well with our vision. You know it has a vision for 2030 net zero and there's over a thousand islands today there is over you know 2800 gas guzzling boats. The fit is so on spot and you know we are very grateful for the partners we found who have like the you know gih who have the similar vision of like developing the country's infrastructure.
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Caroline Hyde
Let's talk about the N30 Pioneer Edition. What does it show in terms of performance? What does it do that unlike anything that's on the market?
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Someya Bhattacharya
Yeah, absolutely. You know, at a high level, our goal at Navier is to build a standardized foundational layer, I would say the best possible platform on the water with, you know, dual use case, whether that's transportation or defense. And we are very focused on making these reliable long range and applicable for different kind of sea states. So this is not just the deployment of the boat, but this is also the deployment of a network. So usually when you go somewhere, you know, you have one of boats that takes you to an island. But in this case it's more like what you see in the land, what you see in the air, right. You have United Airlines, you have Blacklane, you have Four Seasons on the land. Right. But when it comes to the water, there is no standardization. And what is different is that, you know, you are in this beautiful resorts, right, which are so into sustainability and then you get on the water and there is a huge disconnect. And that's where we really come in. You know, that experience part of it some pretty.
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Ed Ludlow
How much pressure are you under to deliver for JIH and the Maldives project? Like 100 of these. Are they built? How quickly do you build them? Where do they get built? How do they get to the Maldives? Give us a sense of how real this is.
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Someya Bhattacharya
Yes, absolutely. So just to give a background, you know, GIH is led by Mohamed Alijana. He's one of the most influential business leaders of Maldives who have literally known as the man who built Maldives. A driving force behind most of the, you know, prestigious hotels and resorts like the Waldorf Four Seasons. And they have also presence in in the gcc. So I'm really working very closely with them. The first year, this very year, we are starting with five vessels. Vessels. The first one is going to get there, you know, end of summer and then we are going to test out this fleet. And at the same time we will be working very closely with JIH to plan out the infrastructure, the routes and then the, you know, deployment is phased over the next three years. So there is a bit of like the infrastructure planning, route planning and then the software layer of it. Right. So we want to make this a very seamless experience where Maldives really become almost like the, you know, becomes a playbook of how to replicate this in, you know, many other places.
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Caroline Hyde
Well, how do you replicate that into a defense narrative? Not just luxury, briefly.
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Someya Bhattacharya
Right. Because, you know, if you Go back to it. The company is really focused on what we call building the generalized marine vessel platform. And that is a standardized core. Right. If you forget the, if you strip it to the physics of it. The role of a vessel is to carry per unit payload, per unit mile, reliably, efficiently and go the longest distance at speed. What you put on top of that, like people often get caught into this. Oh, is it a ferry? Is it a luxury boat? It looks too pretty. No, forget it. It's just a physics, you know, it's just the physics of the vessel. Right. And our goal is to get as many vessels out there as possible for us to win as a generational maritime company. What you are seeing today in asymmetric warfare, right. We have to move away from exotic vessel building to standardize, you know, scalable systems. And that you can only do when you're dual use and commercial use cases forces you to like ruthlessly cut down costs, cost. So that's a big part of it. When you have dual use platforms, you streamline everything, the building maintenance supply chain and so on.
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Caroline Hyde
So some pretty fascinating somebody. Bhattacharya, thank you for joining us from Navy and discussing the Maldives. Move meanwhile from electric vessels to electric vehicles. Waymo set to deploy new autonomous vehicles purpose built for robotaxi use without human supervision. Now dubbed the Ohio. The cars will be made available to select riders in San Francisco, Los Angeles and Phoenix. You were one of those select individuals. Talk us through the ride you took and am I saying it right?
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Ed Ludlow
Yeah. Oh I, oh hi. As in the city in SoCal but also like oh hi. But for Waymo like this is very serious, right. This is the next phase of them scaling. So the Bloomberg tech audience has probably seen one of the white Waymo Jaguar I paces. This is a vehicle that Waymo developed with Zika, an arm of China's Geely. And you know, it's completely different design, more like a shuttle. But the point being that they final assemble these in Mesa, Arizona and at scale of like you're talking tens of thousands per annum. So in the first instance, yeah, free rides get user feedback. But if Waymo is going to break into the mainstream, this is what they see as being their mass volume transfer border.
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Caroline Hyde
Fascinating. And particularly the China angle as well
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Ed Ludlow
as particularly the China angle. But I think that's the story here, that because it's final assembly in Mesa and that the skateboard arrives without any of the self driving tech they get, they get going. There you are there I am a lot of fun. Read the Bloomberg story. We'll have more on the socials later. Now coming up, Anthropic's explosive growth has turned into a highly sought after employer. We've got more on that next. This is Bloomberg Tech.
- [21:33]
Deloitte Representative
The right technology can strengthen human judgment. That's why Deloitte brings together AI and data analytics with multidisciplinary teams. People with deep industry experience who can challenge assumptions and help you connect the dots across your enterprise. From risk signals to operational pressure points to shifting customer needs, Deloitte helps you see what's coming sooner so opportunities don't slip by and surprises don't spread. It's not just dashboards, it's real clarity in the moments your decisions are made. When models reveal patterns, people can ask better questions. When data and people are connected, leaders can move faster with confidence. And when your teams are aligned, smart choices can scale from the frontline to the C suite. Because the smarter your systems, the sharper your instincts. That's how technology makes people better at what they do best. Deloitte Together makes progress. Learn more@deloitte.com TogetherMakesProgress the thing about AI
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Ed Ludlow
for business, it may not automatically fit the way your business works. At IBM, we've seen this firsthand. But by embedding AI across hr, IT and procurement processes, we've reduced costs by millions, slashed repetitive tasks, and freed thousands of hours for strategic work. Now we're helping companies get smarter by putting AI where it actually pays off, deep in the work that moves the business. Let's create smarter business.
- [23:02]
Windows 11 Pro Promoter
IBM Support for the show comes from Public. Public is an investing platform that offers access to stocks, options, bonds and crypto. And they've also integrated AI with tools that can assist investors in building customized portfolios. One of these tools is called Generated Assets. It allows you to turn your ideas into investable indexes. So let's say you're interested in something specific like biotech companies with high R and D spend small cap stocks with improving operating margins or the S&P 500 minus high debt companies. Chances are there isn't an ETF that fits your exact criteria. But on Public you just type in a prompt and their AI screens thousands of stocks and builds a one of a kind index. You can even backtest it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks, go to public.com market and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com market ad paid for by Public Holdings Brokerage Services by Public Investing Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors SEC Registered Advisor Crypto Services by ZeroHash Sample prompts are for illustrative purposes only, not investment advice. All investing involves risk of loss. See complete disclosures@public.com disclosures
- [24:17]
Caroline Hyde
landing a job at Anthropic is so fiercely competitive that applicants are spending, get this, $4,600 on average on private interview coaching. Candidates say the startup's intense culture screen feels that's like an interview and more like therapy. While the company faces some incredible pressure to survive economically while keeping its values. People are really clamoring to be part of that story. Bloomberg. Joe Constance, I'm pleased to say is with us. You do this fascinating deep dive what it's like to go through interview rounds at Anthropic. What is it like?
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Joe Constance
Well, I mean, I mean for, for the first thing it's, it's, it's competitive. There are so many applicants now. There are so many people who are, you know, just would be thrilled to join. Even the most seasoned engineers, the most high level executives, recruiters tell me, are willing to take the call from the recruiter and the interview process, while a lot of it is pretty standard, the culture interview, from what I hear from candidates and recruiters is a little unusual.
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Ed Ludlow
Right.
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Joe Constance
And more of, you know, a lot of companies, the culture fit interview is kind of a vibe check just to make sure, you know, you're not
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Caroline Hyde
odd.
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Joe Constance
But then this interview is a little bit more of a they want you
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Caroline Hyde
to be odd in many ways. They want to think differently or push back against thoughts that are different.
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Joe Constance
They have a very defined sense of their own culture and so they are looking for particular people to fit that environment.
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Ed Ludlow
Hey Joe, a lot of people I know work at Anthropic are pretty odd and if you're watching the show today, you know where to find me. So if you're a candidate because I imagine actually a lot of the Bloomberg Tech audience are aspirational, they want to go and work it anthropic. What is $4600 actually get you like, what are you paying for and is it working?
- [26:04]
Joe Constance
Sure. You know, part of this story was interesting to, to discover a little bit more about this, this cottage industry of interview prep companies, these career coaches that are really selling, you know, you know, their services to help people prepare for these, what feels like an, you know, oftentimes very high stakes sorts of, you know, rounds and rounds of, of these interviews and skills assessments. And so in some cases it's just some resources to prep candidates on, you know, what types of questions they can expect for other coaches. They're offering mock interactions, views.
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Caroline Hyde
And what type can you expect because it is different, you are going to be sort of pushed more than you might be elsewhere because they're really so based on the mission. Right.
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Someya Bhattacharya
Briefly.
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Joe Constance
Right. So I mean that's, that's the thing that I've heard from candidates that sometimes they're not quite expecting as much introspection. You know, these types of questions that are really pushing folks to reflect on, you know, past experiences, audiences, decisions they've made, have they felt about those decisions. Which is a bit unusual for people who are used to just talking about, you know, this project I did at work and how it went and my
- [27:19]
Caroline Hyde
greatest failing being how, how I'm too much orientated.
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Trinity Kajuria
Yes, exactly.
- [27:25]
Ed Ludlow
The most. Joe Constance with pretty much the most read story on Bloomberg today. Thank you very much. Coming up, Matter is selling consumer subscriptions to his Meta AI chat bot for the first time. Got that story next halfway through the program. Heck of a lot more to come. This is Bloomberg Tech.
- [27:51]
Caroline Hyde
Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. Let us take a look at Today's big number, $22 billion and counting is how much the market cap for Snowflake has grown from just one day's market gain. The stock we know is surging today. So after the software maker gave a stronger than expected annual outlook, we in fact managed to speak with the Snowflake CEO Sridhar Ramaswamy on how AI is really helping to boost their bottom line.
- [28:15]
Sridhar Ramaswamy
We had a landmark quarter, Caroline strongest sequential dollar growth in company's history. Product revenue up to $1.334 billion up 34%. Net revenue retention rate, a key metric we watch up to 126%. But I think the basic bigger news really was that this is the quarter where we clearly showed that AI is compounding Snowflake's advantage in data. We did this old fashioned way by creating amazing products like Snowflake Intelligence, which is our work agent which doubled its adoption with respect to accounts and a coding agent which code or Coco which is used by more than 7,000 accounts. And this is what gives us confidence in the business.
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Jared Isaacman
Sad.
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Sridhar Ramaswamy
So we raised the yearly guidance from 27 31%. Solid performance. But I think it's much more of what does this mean for our future that we are very happy with.
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Ed Ludlow
Now the big story in the world of tech is matter. This is a two day chart. Yesterday the stock up almost 4%. We're basically flat. Today Metta is selling consumer subscriptions to its Meta Chat Bot for the first time, two tiers, basic tier, $7.99 cents a month. That's cool. And then one that's like kind of higher tier metal one plus like I guess those of you that are more in it. We write at Bloomberg News that this is about offsetting the infrastructure costs, but other people have slightly different take I want to get to shredded. Kajura Wolf, research managing director joins us now. Because you put research out right when the when the news comes and you're basically saying our thesis which we'd already outlined is playing out, you saw multiple new revenue streams. This is a potential bigger total addressable market for you rather than an action to offset that high capex or high infrastructure spending.
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Trinity Kajuria
Yeah, that's right and thanks for having me Ed. So at a high level, one of the deeper dives that we did prior to the news coming out was part of the reason why media is even underperforming, forming Google and Amazon is that Meta is spending like a hyperscaler without any clear line of sight into demand that Google and Amazon have in their hyperscale business. And so where is Meta spending all this money to really justify this type of spend and capex? And when will we see that revenue? So that's the fundamental question. And so in that when we dug deeper it could be subscription or it could be agentic commerce or it could be business AI. And now we're starting to see with this product release of subscription across consumer businesses and Meta AI that this could be the beginning of it.
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Caroline Hyde
Talk about how this is going to scale. First quarter it was about $1.3 billion. That was in the non advertising revenue. So tiny. But how much could that rise?
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Trinity Kajuria
Yeah, so in the non advertising revenue right now a lot of it could be business AI that they are actually monetizing in WhatsApp through their businesses in WhatsApp now an add on is going to be subscription. So a clearest comp that we have today is Snapchat. And Snapchat arguably has surprisingly done a great job in converting its DA user Daily active users and monthly active users subscriber base if matter can do something similar to that. And I'm not saying it's going to be exactly the same same but say low to mid single digit percentage of their DA use actually convert to subscription. Well that in itself implies about a 1 to 3% percentage point uplift to their revenue. In other words, Approximately anywhere from five to $15 billion of incremental subscription revenue from consumers in the next three to five years.
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Ed Ludlow
Look at it differently. In a world where you're paying monthly for chat, GPT, Claude, Gemini, etc. Is Meta AI worth paying $8 or $20 a month for?
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Trinity Kajuria
That is going to be a key question for them. So there is a consumer subscription piece. There is this meta AI type subscription piece which competes directly with Gemini to your point. And then there is the business like if you are a creator then you can subscribe as well. I see great value in the consumer subscription and the creator subscription because it allows them to create more content. But in the question that you are asking where if I have a Gemini subscription or a GPT, do I need Meta AI? Jury still out on that. You would need it. If you're running out of capacity and you're paying 20 bucks, you don't want to pay additional higher tier to a hundred to 200 tier and you want just a little bit more of access capacity. Maybe you paid bucks to meta. Maybe in that scenario it does make sense. Or if it is highly personalized social sort of a use case that they they give us which cannot be created by Claude because they don't have that information. Or, or perhaps a GPT. Perhaps there is a use case in those instances. Yes, but I'm not fully sure. Jury's still out on that. On the med subscription scaling.
- [33:16]
Caroline Hyde
Trinity Kajuria Great research, great analysis from Wolf Research Research. We thank you NASA. It selected Blue Origin, Firefly Aerospace and other private space firms to help build out its long term lunar ambitions. The agency says near monthly missions could begin in 2027, laying the groundwork for astronauts to eventually live work on the lunar surface. We spoke with the NASA administrator Jared Isaacman about the timeline for a moon
- [33:39]
Jared Isaacman
base starting in 2027, you should see a near monthly cadence of robotic landers on the moon. Several rovers in fact we initially we provided an award for two, you know, crude and autonomous capable rovers for the lunar surface. So when our astronauts arrive on Artemis 4 in 2028, they're going to already have some infrastructure, the moon base waiting for them. They're already going to have a rover waiting for them.
- [34:07]
Caroline Hyde
And then in that time frame it's not just intermittent anymore, it's not just those monthly visits. But when do you think people be working? Humans might even be living in some capacity on the moon there.
- [34:20]
Jared Isaacman
So we are approaching the moon base in phases. So phase one is a lot of littles. We are dusting off the playbook that worked very well for NASA in the 1960s. We're getting back to an iterative approach so, you know, there was the Mercury program before there was Gemini. There was Gemini before Apollo and an awful lot of Apollo missions before we went right to the moon landing on Apollo 11. We are doing the same thing now. So phase one, we're calling it a science of survival. We're not going to lock in what the mobility strategy should be for logistics for astronauts. The power strategy, the surface comms, the orbital comms. Why would we try and nail and get all of that perfect today when we haven't been to the moon in more than a half century? So phase one will be a lot of landings again, that near monthly cadence to learn and inform Phase two, where perhaps now you're putting a lot more tonnage on the, on the lunar surface, you have a lot more direction as to the type of hardware and capabilities you want to lock in on. So you don't need to have maybe monthly landings. When we get into phase two, you have a lot more direction as to what should work for our intended objectives, which is to build out that habitable environment. And then phase two, we're going to learn now having astronauts go from, let's call it a period of maybe even days on the lunar surface in phase one to potentially weeks in Phase two to where you might get, by the time we move into phase three, a similar astronaut rotation like you see on the International Space Station, where we could have crews potentially being on the lunar surface for. For months on end.
- [35:51]
Ed Ludlow
You don't have that marked on your calendar administrator, when phase three might have a base that has humans actually living and working inside it.
- [36:00]
Jared Isaacman
Oh, we absolutely have timeframes. I mean, we are looking at basically 2027 through 2029 for phase one. You have 2029 out into the early 2030s for phase two. But, but again, this is all going to be informed on what we learn during those first landings in Phase one.
- [36:18]
Ed Ludlow
That was NASA administrator Jared Isaacman. All right, coming up on the show, we're going to be joined by Eric Vitria of Benchmark for his Outlook the physical AI space. Yes, we're going to talk about hardware. This is Bloomberg Tech.
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- [39:05]
Ed Ludlow
French startup Mistro AI is expanding into advanced manufacturing, striking deals with new customers Airbus and BMW as it looks to so called physical AI to fuel growth. CEO and Co founder of a Mensch spoke with Bloomberg Tech Europe's Tom MacKenzie.
- [39:22]
Jared Isaacman
For us it's a massive market we see in particular Europe is our ankle market and one of the Europeans.
- [39:31]
Mark Gurman
The strength of Europe is in its high end manufacturing.
- [39:36]
Ed Ludlow
So the manufacturing world is the 30 trillion market.
- [39:41]
Jared Isaacman
If you think of the uplift that
- [39:43]
Mark Gurman
AI can bring to it, if you
- [39:45]
Jared Isaacman
only look at 10% of that you're
- [39:47]
Mark Gurman
looking at the 3 trillion market and that's happening in the next five years.
- [39:51]
Caroline Hyde
Then over in Asia Minimax is annualized revenue more than doubled these past two months to at least $300 million. As a Chinese startup prepares to roll out its next flagship model. Minimax co founder and president this year joined Bloomberg Stephen Engle on the sidelines of the UBS Asian Investment Conference over
- [40:07]
Minimax Co-founder and President
in Hong Kong Agent and the models are really important for monetization but definitely the foundation model is a key. You will see a better performance models with specialization and differentiation will drive the token consumption also drives the enterprise and the consumers retention and the consumption the model performance product monetization will become the flywheel. So you will see here we did the end to end optimization with the whole group. There are lots of innovation, technical innovation inside. So you will see see we can provide probably similar performance models with probably a lower price, even sometimes higher margin. Yes.
- [40:48]
Windows 11 Pro Promoter
So how do you change your revenue mix? Where most of your revenue is coming from your consumer facing products like the chat box senior and also highly or which just last year that's like the text to video generation. But next year as you go into your model 3 right from 2.07 to 3 how is your revenue mix going to change?
- [41:11]
Minimax Co-founder and President
Yeah so the number you mentioned is last year's number but right now it's almost like 50 enterprise and 50 consumers. So the enterprise increase a lot. And also yes the model is a key. So we think the model is our product. No matter is a B2B or D2C is all the channels for the commercialization. So we spend most of our relationship sources and spending on the model layer. Yes, we are going to release M3 very very soon in a few days which probably I think which is the first open source native multi model.
- [41:45]
Ed Ludlow
That was Minimax Co founder and president. Yay. Along with our own Stephen Engle because stick with AI. And we're going to discuss the outlook for physical AI with Eric Vishri, a partner at Benchmark Today's VC Spotlight. Been really looking forward to this one Eric. Ten years ago you were very welcome to be here. Ten years ago you led a series A in a little company called cerebras. Fast forward 10 years. What an IPO. But it's indicative of where we're at right now in this demand for fast inference. I just want to start with that case study, you know the timing of this IPO and where it fits in what's actually happening in physical AI right now?
- [42:29]
Eric Vishri
Well I think it's very, very clear that the demand for inference and AI is off the charts. And I don't think that's going to stop anytime soon. I think it was Alex gathered at Whale Rock who kind of recently said, if you think of the population of the world, there's like 1% of the world is maybe AI power users today. So if 1% of the world is AI power users today and we're completely compute constrained for as far as I can see, what happens when 3% of the world or 4% of the world or 5% of the world becomes AI super users or power users. And so I think that we are going to be in this compute constrained world world for quite some time. And, and I think that that's going to lead to a lot of success in all the hardware layers. And it's also going to lead to the bottleneck moving around. You know, some days, some months it's going to be memory. Some, some months it's going to be data center and power. Some months it's going to be chips. And I think that bottleneck is going to keep moving around.
- [43:37]
Caroline Hyde
Some days it's all of them combined. Eric so at this exact moment, where are the startups you're most interested in or the ones you already sit on boards of starting to innovate at the edges? When are we going to really see like the movement to photonics or a different type of compute being used?
- [43:53]
Eric Vishri
Well, I think, I think, you know, one of the benefits of being an early stage venture capitalist is we have a very long time horizon. So we're not, we're not trying to figure out what's going to happen in 18 months or 12 months or 24 months. We're really looking, looking and trying to have some idea of what might happen in five years or seven years or 10 years. And as we look out, we were really excited. For example, we invested in Star Cloud, which is a space data center. We invested in Sunday Robotics, which is a domestic robot. And when you kind of look at companies like that, they're very much on the frontier. It's going to take a bunch of time. There are very capital intensive projects, but they're amazing teams that are doing really cool development, pushing the edge and it's going to require a lot of flexibility on their parts as, as the market evolves. There's obviously a lot of unknowns, but there's also tremendous possibilities.
- [44:54]
Ed Ludlow
I just want to go about Cerebrus for a minute and to some this is now ancient history. It's actually academic but two days before the IPO, I broke a story that AAM and SoftBank had basically gone to Andrew Feldman and said we'd buy you for a large number. And Andrew very quickly shut it down. And the rest is history, of course, because they went public. But if somebody that joined the board in 2016 and has had three of the five major investments go to IPO, what would you have made of that, that out of Outcome instead of going public?
- [45:26]
Eric Vishri
Well, obviously you can't comment on, on that specific reporting, but we're a public company now. I think that has opened up a lot of possibilities in terms of what we can do. We've raised a ton of capital to finance the business and allow us to take advantage of the tremendous demand. And I think we're really at the beginning, you know, if you feel like there is and in sight, you might take a different, different tact. But as far as we can see, the demand is, is tremendous.
- [45:58]
Caroline Hyde
You say you just backed a company that's about orbital space centers and that immediately makes us all think of Space X and, and how they're going to be sucking a lot of the oxygen out of the room when it comes to a public offering. How are your companies currently feeling the need for cash? How are you thinking about permanently fundraising or looking for exits right now?
- [46:16]
Eric Vishri
Well, it's really interesting right now the venture landscape is very much have and have nots, which is if you are oriented around AI and you're growing really quickly or have something that's very much on the frontier, there's almost, there's almost like limitless cash available and funding available. And if you're not, even if it's a good business that would have, people would have fallen all over themselves for, you know, five or six years ago, there's almost no funding available. So it's a very, it's a very bimodal setup right now, which is, which is challenging certainly. But each of these financing eras kind of, they come and go and you know, one of the really important things for any of these companies or entrepreneurs is just to keep on, keep on grinding and finding the way that there's building company that is impactful is a roller coaster and it takes a long time. And even if you take this reverse journey, there have been lots and lots of ups and downs over the time. Obviously, taking an AI semiconductor company public in May 2026 is about as good timing as you can get. But you know, part of that is the timing part is, part of that's just luck. And, and then obviously it's all, all built on top of a decade of the team grinding at it.
- [47:37]
Caroline Hyde
Another interesting one that we're looking at in your portfolio. We have to talk about that another time. Eric, it's great to have you on Eric Bishop of Benchmark now coming up, Tick Tock. But it's moving away from music, scaling back ties with major music labels. We'll dig into that next. This is Bloomberg Tech.
- [48:00]
Ed Ludlow
I could provoke a 15% displacement of knowledge workers. That's according to Muddy Waters Capital CEO Carson Block, who joined Bloomberg's Haslinda Amin in an exclusive interview to discuss demand. Listen to this.
- [48:14]
Brody Ford
Our house view is that we're going to see 15% displacement of knowledge workers. You know, we think it could be
- [48:22]
Eric Vishri
as soon as three years. Years.
- [48:25]
Brody Ford
Is it four, is it five at some point and it's in the single digit number of years. This will, this will be a factor or this, this will occur in our view. And yes, there will be jobs that are created by AI, but we're talking about net losses because the technology is increasing in capability faster than we humans are able to adapt to it.
- [48:49]
Windows 11 Pro Promoter
It.
- [48:49]
Caroline Hyde
Let's talk about the displacement of music labels maybe over at TikTok because music's been called to TikTok's identity since its days as musically helping artists like Lil Nas X or Olivia Rodrigo. Just global stardom and waits. Now TikTok though, is scaling back ties with major music labels and focusing more directly on those artists. According to sources that's all discovered by Bloomberg's Alex Levine along with Ashley Kahman. What is happening, happening with a company that identify with music? I mean it's, it's in the icon, it's in their branding. How are they moving away from labels so.
- [49:23]
LPL Financial Representative
Exactly. Music has really been part of its DNA since the very beginning. It is the thing that made tech, helped make Tik Tok this global cultural phenomenon and gotten more than half of America using it. Though TikTok continues importantly to work with major music labels, including some of the world's biggest, it is deeper deprioritizing those relationships in part by building out projects, prioritizing internal efforts to actually have products and services that compete directly with the labels and, and that allow the company to have sort of more direct relations with the artists rather than through the representatives.
- [49:58]
Ed Ludlow
Alex, Tick Tock changed music. Now labels worry it's leaving them behind. But present day, how does music work on TikTok? So it's Friday night, I'm kicking back on the couch, I go to YouTube on the TV and play concerts, music videos. I don't think present day, like you know what. Yup. Music music video. Like just explain what we're talking about mechanically.
- [50:19]
LPL Financial Representative
So mechanically, when you open your app, you've got your for you feed. Every video that you see is going to have some sort of audio behind it, whether that's people speaking or whether that's music. And oftentimes those sounds are, are songs that, that that have gone viral. And sometimes it's new songs from emerging artists, sometimes it's made, you know, it's global hits from artists like Paul McCartney, like Bruno Mars. And sometimes it's simply just, you know, sort of repetitive meme type noises that you can find through, through various other means on the app. But, but I think that there's always sort of been this question, especially more recently about whether blowing up on Tik Tok or going viral can actually mint a legitimate star and have, have them develop really an enduring career from that.
- [51:05]
Ed Ludlow
Bloomberg's Alex Levine with what's going on in music on TikTok. Thank you very much, Carrie.
- [51:10]
Caroline Hyde
And that does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech. What an addition it's been.
- [51:14]
Ed Ludlow
Yeah, a lot of market moves, a lot of great interviews, a lot of top stories recap on the podcast. You know exactly where to find it all the Bloomberg platforms and online Apple, Spot, Spotify and Iheart. This is Bloomberg Tech.
- [51:30]
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