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- [00:00]
EY Consulting Representative
You have invested in artificial intelligence. Maybe you have pilots or even proofs of concepts that show real promise. The next opportunity is scaling that success across the business. At EY Consulting, we help organizations redesign how work gets done so innovation can move beyond the nascent stage. By addressing architecture, operating models and governance, we help AI deliver real, lasting value at scale. When AI fits how you actually work, that is EY Consulting.
- [00:30]
IBM Representative
The thing about AI for business, it may not automatically fit the way your business works. At IBM, we've seen this firsthand. But by embedding AI across hr, IT and procurement processes, we've reduced costs by millions, slashed repetitive tasks, and freed thousands of hours for strategic work. Now we're helping companies get smarter by putting AI where it actually pays off, deep in the work that moves the business. Let's create smarter business.
- [00:59]
The Hartford Representative
IBM when you're running a business, the best days are the ones where priorities stay on track. For midsize and large companies, that isn't always easy. Risk can touch multiple parts of an organization at the same time, often in ways that aren't immediately obvious. It might involve property liability or cyber. It could stem from regulatory requirements or challenges tied to a specific industry or or the scale of an operation. At that level, managing risk becomes an ongoing discipline, not a one time decision. the Hartford, the focus is on helping businesses manage risk before it turns into something more disruptive. That means working with companies to identify where they're exposed, decide what matters most and put practical standards in place so risk is managed as part of day to day operations. And when losses do happen, the Hartford can pair that risk control work with insurance coverage grounded in underwriting or risk engineering and claims experience developed over time. Learn more@the Hartford.com Risk Mitigation
- [02:01]
Ed Ludlow
Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News. Bloomberg Tech is live from coast to coast with Caroline Hyde in New York and Ed Ludlow in San Francisco.
- [02:20]
Caroline Hyde
This is Bloomberg tech. Coming up, SpaceX gear is up to finalize its IPO pricing today. This is the Office attracts more than $70 billion in orders from retail investors alone.
- [02:32]
Ed Ludlow
Plus Oracle is under pressure after the company reported higher quarterly capex than expected, raising concerns about the returns on AI
- [02:41]
Caroline Hyde
and 776 found and Reddit co founder Alexis Ohanian joins us live from Super Return in Berlin later this hour.
- [02:49]
Ed Ludlow
First Ed with us both here in New York. We check in on these markets that we see the bounce back continue an extent NASDAQ 100 up 3. 10% but coming down from earlier highs. But still, there seems to be a lot of muscle memory Back in the memory perspective, we've got semiconductors up 2.4%. If you're looking at that stocks index, we are buying back into the hardware. But it's not all pretty out there if you're looking at certain names amid the geopolitical angst as well.
- [03:14]
Caroline Hyde
Okay, so the big earnings story is Oracle. Right. It's down 12%, basically falls the most in six months. And everyone is still worried about how much it costs to get data centers built. And it's so funny because like out there in the market, in the AI trade, the same anxiety exists on the other side of the table. Like you can't get it built fast enough. You know, give us the compute. We're so compute constrained. But we're going to dig into that a lot more later in the hour. There's still only one story in town.
- [03:39]
Ed Ludlow
There is, and it's why you're in town, is why we all gather together in town. Because we've got the big story of the day, of the week, of months. Space X's IPO is upon us almost. It feels like we've been building to this crescendo moment for, for a very long time. Bloomberg's IPO reporter Bailey Lipschultz joins us around the desks. Space reporters in town, Lauren Grosch. And look, you've been along this ride with us for many a month. Lauren, what does this mean when we're just galvanizing the amount of demand, when we're starting to see that retail investments are so extreme and order books are filling up? But this is a space story. What does it mean for your industry?
- [04:19]
Lauren Grosch
Well, it has become something more than a space story. You know, if I had my bets on how Space X would ipo. Ipo, I do not think I would have had it IPO in this kind of current form. Right. It's. We were, we were told they would never IPO until they had achieved the Elon's dream of going to Mars. Now it's this hybrid rocket telecom AI company. But I just think it speaks to the value that Space X has provided up until now as a launch provider, as this telecom satellite operator. You know, it's hard to really understate the value that this company has brought to our space program and now also to, you know, telecom business as well. So it's hard to quantify. But I think you're seeing it with these, you know, astronomical numbers. If you are sorry, you know, all the puns.
- [05:07]
Christina Hooper
Yeah.
- [05:08]
Caroline Hyde
You know, this is out of this world. Right. This is also Unusual. Like Bailey, you and I have been sort of banging our heads on our desks because there's a process to it. It's an atypical process that's playing out. But catch the audience up on. On the Mechanics, I guess what happens likely after market close today, what happens tomorrow and where we think the numbers stand. And then we can get to the kind of more intergalactic theme that we want to.
- [05:33]
Bailey Lipschultz
We just got to look back a week ago they came out with a fixed price. Abnormal thing here in the us doesn't normally happen. No. Normally come out with a range. You want to walk Wall street up to it. You want to start low, then come up size, raise the number of shares, raise the price. Baking a big pop. Elon and company over at SpaceX said, We're going to treat this like a private equity private deal. This is the price, this is the size. Are you in or are you out? So that's been playing out for the last week. The bankers closed the formal order books yesterday at around 4:00'.
- [06:00]
Brian White
Clock.
- [06:00]
Bailey Lipschultz
They're all meeting today, deciding who's going to get what. They're eventually going to take that to Bret Johnson and Elon Musk and say, this is what we're thinking. Allocations are expected to go out this evening, early tomorrow morning people are going to find out either they got zero or maybe they got billions of dollars worth of shares. And then tomorrow the fun will start to take place. When we start seeing more shares are indicated probably in the 10 o' clock hour. Expectations are we'll get first trade sometime later in the afternoon and we'll see if the plumbing holds up. Because we again have never seen a deal of this size. We've never seen a deal of this size with retail being what it is with Robinhood and others and Bailey, you've
- [06:36]
Ed Ludlow
been front and center along with that, breaking the detail on how much demand there is and what allocations thus far we're anticipating. So it's going to be slightly less to an international perspective. Japan still getting a couple of billion or more. But talk to us about how much retail demand there is, how much they might be allocated, how much demand there is coming from the Middle east and from US investors.
- [06:55]
Bailey Lipschultz
So we've put out, just starting with retail. We put out and broke this morning, more than $70 billion in demand, probably well more than $70 billion in demand.
- [07:03]
Caroline Hyde
So you think about that.
- [07:04]
Bailey Lipschultz
You're talking at least three times oversubscribed from retail, which means they have that cash in the bank and are they
- [07:09]
Caroline Hyde
could have done this IPO just on retail, which is crazy.
- [07:12]
Bailey Lipschultz
If you told people a year ago that SpaceX was going to. Lauren, please disagree with me.
- [07:16]
Alexis Ohanian
Laura.
- [07:17]
Lauren Grosch
Less than a year, less than a year that this all kind of came together.
- [07:20]
Bailey Lipschultz
It's come together quickly. We've seen in Bloomberg has reported about the demand from the Middle East. We've seen and reported on potential anchor demand and when you kind of stitch all that together the four times oversubscribed number kind of seems like a no brainer especially because people on the buy side inflate their numbers because maybe you put in for half a billion dollars but you really want to get 10 million. At least you're getting shares.
- [07:41]
Caroline Hyde
Right.
- [07:41]
Bailey Lipschultz
But it's something that we haven't seen before.
- [07:43]
Caroline Hyde
We're going to get to this in a moment with our guests but you and I also reported with the team that pre float they also got basically investment grade ratings for the credit agencies which I think is a big indication that this company will raise money post thing. But I want to, I want to go to Lauren because can we just all remember there is a story here that's not about money. It's about a launch system and spacecraft called Starship and data centers in space. Would you kindly Lauren, just summarize the plan here for Space X.
- [08:13]
Lauren Grosch
Right. It's almost, it almost represents an entirely new direction for the company this idea that they're going to put up to 1 million data center satellites into space to do complex computing for AI. I mean as we mentioned this wasn't even on our radar in terms of what Space X is going to be doing, you know, more than a year ago and now it seems to be the new direction, the future of the company. And yes all of this relies on, on Starship. Starship is that gargantuan rocket that they're building in South Texas. It was meant to or it is meant to fulfill Elon Musk's AI or a Mars dream. But now it's also critical for the AI dream too because it's going to be needed to launch these AI data center satellites at scale. And you know, as we've noted the development road has been a tad rocky for, for Starship. Not saying they can't get there but it's still unclear when they will unlock, you know, full reusability.
- [09:07]
Caroline Hyde
Bloomberg's Bailey, Lip Schultz and Lauren Grosch. Just incredible reporting today and Obviously the next 24 hours are going to be a lot. Thank you very much indeed. Much of Space X is growth forecast actually hinges on Ideas that seem straight out of science fiction. But backers of Elon Musk says he's pulled off the unbelievable before. Brett Winton is the chief futurist at ARK Invest, probably one of the most prominent institutional supporters of Musk's firm. Brett's great to have you back on the show and like, actually as a place to start, I wanted you just to kindly remind us of, of how ARK invested in Space X, the sort of venture mechanism that you have. And then we'll go into the thesis.
- [09:47]
Brett Winton
Yeah, so Space X, Space X AI is the largest position in our venture fund, which is an interval fund that, you know, anybody, not just the rich, can invest in. And we did that because, as you can see from the retail demand for the ipo, people understand kind of like the potential power of these innovation focused companies. And we think that, you know, everyday people should be able to get access to these AI exposures, including OpenAI, Anthropic, Space X, which are the top positions in the fund. And so we've invested in Space X, you know, as long as the vehicle's been available. And you know, from the inception of Ark, we had reusable rockets as a breakthrough disruptive technology. And so have done work all along the way demonstrating how being able to reduce cost of launch from $10,000 to $1,000 to we think much less than $100 with Starship actually unlocks huge market potential certainly on the Starlink side and kind of as a second stage on the AI side.
- [10:50]
Ed Ludlow
Okay, and for AI, one needs data centers. We need therefore maybe data centers in space. This the entire pitch that we now go through, the workings, your numbers, your thesis on orbital data centers.
- [11:04]
Brett Winton
Well, what's interesting about the SpaceX IPO is you actually don't need the AI business to really work that well in order to actually get a great return on kind of just the Starlink business. So you know, Elon and co, they are saying they're going to be able to launch tens of gigawatts per year by the late 2000s. So an easy way to think of a gigawatt, you can rent it out at the current market rate. Over the long term, it's something like $15 billion per gigawatt. So imagine launching tens of gigawatts times $15 billion. So 300 billion in incremental revenue in any individual year that you're doing that. The reality of their AI business today is on a blended average basis, they have just rented capacity to Google and Anthropic for just a little under $40 billion per gigawatt. So actually serving it as an infrastructure, as a service provider could be a wildly lucrative business for them because they can, they can build assets on the ground so efficiently. And once they launch into space, they can build efficiently.
- [12:10]
Caroline Hyde
You know Brett, like you are as a firm regarded as some of the most bullish on, on Elon Musk, like the individual and the plan that they outlined in the prospectus. But there of course are risks, right? You know, Musk posted on X last night this idea that 1 million tons to orbit will be possible in roughly five years. Starship on paper can do 150 metric tons on paper, right? Do the math. That's 1333 launches a year, every year for five years to do that. You know, you would concede, right, that, that this is a long shot.
- [12:50]
Brett Winton
Well, he always lays out super ambitious targets for his companies because that's the way he's found to make his workforce most effective at actually delivering world changing technologies. Think about it this way. Just look at the Starlink business and imagine instead of look at Space X, imagine instead of launching Falcon 9 rockets, I'm launching Starship rockets at the same cadence filled with Starlink satellites. That alone would get me in two years of launching to roughly a little under $200 billion in revenue. So we don't, we don't, you don't have to make an assessment assumption that the company is going to be launching, you know, at even a thousand launches a year in order to get into the kind of, mostly on Starlink, 300 to $400 billion in revenue by 2030. So there's, there's this discourse out there that hey, you know, this company on a price to sales basis on the immediate term looks very expensive and poor retail is investing in this thing because they don't understand the whole point of capital markets is you raise capital and then you deploy it in high return on invested capital businesses. And Starlink alone is, it's, you know, a six month cash on cash return for five year linked satellites. They're going to spend a half billion dollars building or launching a rocket filled with satellites and acquiring the customers. And it should generate them $1 billion plus per year over the five year life of the satellite. So, so that's a great, great business.
- [14:28]
Ed Ludlow
I mean unarguable if you think about how much you return. 25,000% has been returned since Tesla went public. But what is also unarguable is as it stands, SpaceX net loss $4.28 billion on revenue of 4.6, $9 billion in the first quarter. When does it become positive? Does it need to become positive? You happy it being loss making for the foreseeable because the revenues are just going to go so astronomically high.
- [14:54]
Brett Winton
No, no, I think that profitability at least as we have it modeled happens very quickly as they launch the Starlink satellites. It really depends upon how much capital they are throwing at terrestrial data centers to try to catch up with the frontier labs. In terms of GROX capability. You can build an amazing business just basically renting compute to others and running Starlink. But there's clearly both an ambition and then a higher margin in actually kind of like competing with anthropic and open AI. In our view that probably doesn't happen until Space X is, is launching so you know, multiple gigawatts into orbit.
- [15:33]
Caroline Hyde
I'm sorry to interrupt you. There is a disconnect and that many people share this thesis, right? The TAM number In the prospectus, 26.5 trillion was for enterprise AI and I appreciate this sub buckets business in the here and now. They've basically played a blinder with a ready to go NEO cloud business. And lots of people keep telling me like in the end it doesn't matter if GROK works or is competitive against anthropic and open AI. They just rent out the capacity and that will fund the, you know, the out of this world ambition. What would you respond to that?
- [16:06]
Brett Winton
I think that's possible as in the way in which we model the business that is the more likely outcome. It's I think to compete to get to the frontier by 2030 you'll need between 30 and 50 gigawatt years of compute and training. It's and there because XI started later and they're trying to build their own infrastructure, it's very difficult for them to catch up on that amount of kind of R and D compute thrown at their model. With the caveat that if assuming that they merge with Tesla over the next couple of years, cash flow from Tesla could actually fund catch up.
- [16:50]
Ed Ludlow
You assume that.
- [16:53]
Brett Winton
I think it's a reasonable assumption or more likely than not after the company lists and its shares are all floating, that there is a merger between the entities. It makes a ton of strategic sense. And as we model Tesla like the cash flow flowing off Robotaxi, they can't effectively deploy it. So you know, I'm not going to want a special dividend out to shareholders for Tesla. I want them to continue to reinvest in growth. Optimus, the robot business, you know, requires it's not capital constrained. It's really like capability constrained. And so whereas Space X actually can use additional capital to continue to accelerate growth.
- [17:29]
Ed Ludlow
Bret Winton we could talk for hours. Chief Futurist and Ark Invest. We are very thankful for the time that you've given us now. Coming up, Oracle makes a costly bet on AI and then massive spending plans are grabbing Wall Street's attention. It doesn't look pretty. This is Bloomberg Tech.
- [17:49]
EY Consulting Representative
You have invested in artificial intelligence. Maybe you have pilots or even proofs of concepts that show real promise. The next opportunity is scaling that success across the business. At EY Consulting, we help organizations redesign how work gets done so innovation can move beyond the nascent stage. By addressing architecture, operating models and governance, we help AI deliver real lasting value at scale. When AI fits how you actually work, that is EY Consulting.
- [18:20]
IBM Representative
The thing about AI for business, it may not automatically fit the way your business works. At IBM we've seen this firsthand. But by embedding AI across hr, IT and procurement processes, we've reduced costs by millions, slash repetitive tasks, and freed thousands of hours for strategic work. Now we're helping companies get smarter by putting AI where it actually pays off, deep in the work that moves the business. Let's create smarter business.
- [18:49]
The Hartford Representative
IBM Support for the show comes from Public. Public is an investing platform that offers access to stocks, options, bonds and crypto. And they've also integrated AI with tools that can assist investors in building customized portfolios. One of these tools is called Generated Assets. It allows you to turn your ideas into investable indexes. So let's say you're interested in something specific like biotech companies with high R and D spend small cap stocks with improving operating margins or the S&P 500 minus high debt companies. Chances are there isn't an ETF that fits your exact criteria. But on Public you just type in a prompt and their AI screens thousands of stocks and builds a one of a kind index. You can even backtest it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks, go to public.com market and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com market ad paid for by
- [19:44]
Public.com Announcer
Public Holdings Brokerage Services by public investing member FINRA SIPC advisory services by public advisors SEC registered advisor crypto services by ZeroHash sample prompts are for illustrative purposes only, not investment advice. All investing involves risk of loss. See complete disclosures@public.com disclosures.
- [20:03]
Ed Ludlow
Oracle shares having their worst day in six months. That's $61 billion wiped out in market cap after they reported reported quarterly capital expenditure, which is above what the market thought. Raising investor concerns about the profitability of infrastructure build outs. Bloomberg's Brody Ford breaks it down. Look, they sort of tried to tell us that they weren't going to raise more debt equity this fiscal year, but we're looking now at next year and there is going to be a lot more raising needed to do.
- [20:28]
Brody Ford
Right. The whole question for Oracle is how quickly can you convert this massive AI demand into actual revenue and what are the capital requirements associated? And so last night when a lot of different spending metrics came up a little high, whether it was CapEx in the quarter or debt plans for the next year, all of these things came together to make investors a little bit
- [20:53]
Caroline Hyde
indigested in the top line, right? Like, yes, okay, they're going to go to equity and debt markets again. They've told us that. But are they growing? Like, are they able to actually operate this business effectively?
- [21:06]
Brody Ford
They're growing massively. The question is whether it's empty calories. It's all about that margin question because we see as the business ramps up, the gross margins come down and they fired thousands of people this quarter to try to control those costs, but it's still crunching them. Right. It's still a question around what is the margin of offering AI infrastructure and is this a good business to be in? Generally, Oracle has gone up quite a bit in their share price and investors are hopeful, but it's all about how quickly they can deliver on the big promises.
- [21:39]
Caroline Hyde
Bloomberg's Brody Ford. Thank you very much. The world's largest private equity firms and dealmakers are gathering in Berlin for the annual Super Return conference, navigating a tough fundraising environment where AI is reshaping where capital is flowing. Bloomberg's Dani Burger joins us live from the ground for an exclusive interview with Reddit co founder and 776 founder Alexis Iranian. Danny.
- [22:04]
Dani Burger
And thank you so much. That's right, I am here alongside Alexis. Alexis, thank you so much for joining. Wonderful to see you.
- [22:09]
Alexis Ohanian
Hey, thanks for having me, Danny.
- [22:10]
Dani Burger
So look, the big news of the week, it's inescapable, is a Space X IPO listing tomorrow. You're obviously very intimately familiar with it. Having owned X, I got sold to SpaceX. What is it just mean to have this behemoth coming to market tomorrow?
- [22:24]
Alexis Ohanian
Look, we are all excited, you know, I think right now most of us in venture and in tech have been waiting for some watershed moment IPO to hopefully get the markets back open. Looks like that is upon us. And just generally speaking, I've been so excited about space tech for about five, six, seven years now. And that to me is, I think this is feels like a milestone moment. This was an investment thesis that was unthinkable a decade ago for most investors. And I think now people are coming to grips with the fact that space technology is really here. What would have been science fiction, US maybe 10 years ago, is now science fact. And I think we're only going to see an acceleration of that.
- [23:04]
Dani Burger
But is it all fact when we start talking about like a $29 trillion TAM and 10 million people on Mars? I mean, you own space companies yourself. Is just like this the way you need to think or is a little bit of a fantasy?
- [23:16]
Alexis Ohanian
I oh, it's so these numbers are big. The projections, the ambitions are big. I do think though, when we think about what we are capable of as a species, space has been something that has mystified us, excited us for a very long time, especially in modern history and modern technology. This was a frontier we really, really believed for a long time, and I did. Growing up, it was only a place for governments to build and innovate. NASA, putting a man on the moon, all that stuff was never something the private sector could do. But what we're seeing now here is undeniable. The private sector has been able to accomplish a lot, and I think it's only going to accelerate. And I do think the overall market is potentially that big. I think when we're talking about human ambition, there is no limit to that. When we talk about the opportunities in space, as low as Earth orbit alone just becomes more accessible. We're unlocking pharmaceuticals, we're unlocking biotech. That's going to help us here back at home. And that's the stuff that gets me fired up as an investor. That's what gets me fired up as an American. I want to see that innovation come and help us live better lives here on planet Earth.
- [24:21]
Dani Burger
So is having Space X as a public company, is that a good thing for your space investments because it shows there's a pathway for public markets, or is it a bad thing because so many much money is going to get funneled into this IPO that maybe it leaves less room for some of the other space companies?
- [24:35]
Alexis Ohanian
Well, the good news is where I like to invest is still so early, very few of these companies, you know, companies like Stoke or Astro Forge, are thinking about going public quite yet. They're still thinking about building and shipping and Launching I do think you're going to have undeniably a whole fleet of newly minted millionaires, multimillionaires as well as investors. So not just the early employees industries, but also the investors who believe in space tech who are now going to have capital to put into the sort of next wave. And I think we've seen that play out in tech before and this will be no exception. And I do think that all continues to accelerate, all of us in building the space economy that we're hoping for.
- [25:13]
Dani Burger
Building a space economy though it is something that certainly takes time and I just wonder if there is room for disappointment. I mean I don't mean to harp on sort of the crazy numbers of it all, but is there a fear that it gets too overhyped as SpaceX IPO is just too large and there's some disappointment and it sets the project back to humanity what you're talking about, it sets it back in some time.
- [25:34]
Alexis Ohanian
I do think it is, it is important to have this tempered expectation. I think on the one hand folks have to balance one. What I think is a very important, almost unbridled ambition for human progress which is I think a very important and noble and great quest. And at the same time the realistic expectations, you know, everyone should obviously do their diligence, do their own underwriting, all that important stuff before making any kind of stock decision.
- [25:57]
Dani Burger
Thank you for the legal.
- [25:58]
Alexis Ohanian
Legal compliance is happy with me. But at the end of the day I do think what we're talking about here is, is creating very real value. I know even you think about anecdotally the difference a person has once they've taken a United flight with Starlink. Like there is a, there's a very, very different feeling about how you interact with technology when you've experienced just a little fraction of what the space economy can do. And I do think as we start to unlock pharmaceuticals and biotech that could really only be done in zero G. We're talking about again saving lives, improving quality of life. Things that I know provide a real economic value but at the same time help us live that Star Trek future. I think a lot of us grew up wanting so I think be, be exuberant, be excited but at the same time obviously, you know, be thoughtful in how you're underwriting this stuff.
- [26:45]
Dani Burger
It's not just obviously SpaceX, that's IPO and we also have open air filing anthropic does as well. And these are companies that have had a lot of VC backing in fact so much so we were Talking about this on stage, 65% of VC money has gone to just 0.05% of companies. Is something broken that those are the statistics we're faced with right now.
- [27:05]
Alexis Ohanian
It is a unique time. I think clearly as an early stage investor, you know, I am insulated from this a bit because they're the ones, these multi stages are often marking up my early investments. And so, you know, it's, I think where you start to see the challenge is a lot of these companies in a previous decade would have already been public. And because companies held off going public longer, the private markets became a place that was effectively dealing like a public marketplace. So you're seeing these valuations, you're seeing this increase. I think it is a positive for America and for the world that, you know, retail, that regular folks get access to these opportunities. I frankly wish it would happen sooner because I think historically, you know, people draw up, you know, the market cap of Amazon or revenues of Amazon or Google when they went public. And you know, we're in a different world now where privately held companies are able to generate tremendous revenues and market cap caps before going public. But I do think, I think this has been a long time coming and I do think generally venture should be a place to be contrarian and. Right. It should be a non consensus asset. And especially on the growth side, it's looking more and more consensus. So look, those companies are about to turn public. We'll see what the next wave of private looks like. I'm certainly trying to do my best to be on the non consensus and right side early. And I do think venture is healthier as an ecosystem when it's not looking like a couple of very, very concentrated bets.
- [28:28]
Dani Burger
Well, usually what you say when there's a consensus is that that's a dangerous thing and it means that there can be a correction. Do you think that that's possible for this industry if everyone is crowding around similar bets?
- [28:38]
Alexis Ohanian
Look, your instincts are right and I know you always get in trouble saying why something is different this time.
- [28:43]
Dani Burger
Yeah.
- [28:45]
Alexis Ohanian
And with that caveat, I still think something is different this time. And, and I know, look, I live through the social media wave. I naively thought the social media revolution that we were building with Reddit was like the revolution. It was not. I naively thought mobile was a revolution. It was not. I mean it was, but in a much smaller way compared to what this is. We have seen in just a few years technology go from an interesting novelty that could help you write like a press release to technology that could literally write code as well as, or better than even some of the most senior experienced developers. And it really augments the output of folks. So there's a real technology here, It's a real shift and I don't think it goes away. And I also think it has, as I said on stage, a national security importance.
- [29:29]
Dani Burger
Right.
- [29:30]
Alexis Ohanian
Because so much of our lives are digital. Being able. You saw this with the way anthropic thoughtfully rolled out mythos, like, you know, we used it first and foremost to shore up vulnerabilities that we had in our businesses here in America. And so even if it never got. Even if I never got any better than where it is today, you know, that is already incredibly valuable. And there's so much wood to chop as we look across so many businesses that right now don't have any software in them. This hotel, I am sure.
- [29:57]
Dani Burger
Don't tell me this hotel is going to be an AI.
- [29:59]
Alexis Ohanian
No, no. But I am sure that whatever systems they're using right now are very bad.
- [30:06]
Ed Ludlow
And.
- [30:07]
Alexis Ohanian
And software as a layer of user experience. User.
- [30:11]
Dani Burger
Yeah.
- [30:11]
Alexis Ohanian
Should be able to level that up in a meaningful way.
- [30:13]
Dani Burger
And by the way, I do want to just ask quickly because we have 45 seconds left. There is this idea that the thing that survives in AI is just like live entertainment and you have a lot of bets around women's sports very much has this whole revolution, this thing we're experiencing just made you double down on that.
- [30:27]
Alexis Ohanian
Yeah. I mean, look, I was a rare voice five, six years ago saying this was institutional great ass at not just sports, but also specifically women's sports. I love seeing this. I am certain five, ten years from now we will still watch. No matter how good the AI generated highlights get. You know, watching the AI version of that Knicks final last night would do nothing for the human soul because it requires. Even though even if it was pixel perfect, if it didn't actually happen, it is irrelevant and worthless. So live sports has to. To be fundamentally human. No one is going to line up to see a bunch of robots, you know, play 18 holes of golf against each other where everyone hits a hole in one. Right. The end state of this technology is some version of this perfection that no one's going to want to watch, because sport has to be human. So I've been saying this for five, six years now, and I'm only more confident about it. And I think what this technology does is it makes these assets more valuable, it makes them more engaging for fans, improves training, it improves so many elements, but it does not Replace by any means right of time.
- [31:27]
Dani Burger
But should we just end with Nixon 5?
- [31:29]
Alexis Ohanian
Nixon 5.
- [31:29]
Brett Winton
Nixon 5.
- [31:30]
Alexis Ohanian
I think that's 5.
- [31:31]
Dani Burger
That's a look into the camera.
- [31:32]
Brett Winton
Nixon.
- [31:33]
Caroline Hyde
Perfect place to end it.
- [31:34]
Dani Burger
Alexis, thank you so much for joining me at Caroline. Alexis Ohany Ohanian, the founder of 776 and Reddit.
- [31:41]
Caroline Hyde
Thank you very much. Dani Burger I really want to check back in on markets and I don't mean like what's happening in the here and now. We're like up 810 of a percent on NASDAQ 100. I call it like a modest rebound. Oracle is down on track for its worst day in six months because it warned investors is going to have to tap equity and debt markets. It needs that capital carry. Like it's like can't build compute fast enough. But it's interesting like if you just take a sec, calm it down. Most of the names on the NASDAQ 100 higher. It's the hyperscalers that are lower. The software names are a little bit lower. And there must be an element of like treading water to space at Space X's debut tomorrow.
- [32:19]
Ed Ludlow
Definitely. Maybe people still rearranging as to how much allocation they can, they can have, how much money they've committed. But also look, there's still hardware on the higher side in particular in the chip side of the equation. And let's just talk a little bit about that because questions are clearly around the cost of the boom for Oracle there, but also cost for you and me for the American people. Inflation is spiking with tech giant scrambling to build out data centers, memory chips. Prices have skyrocketed, driving a record spike in tech, hardware and electricity costs. This is exactly the story that Bloomberg's Ender Current is helping tell today. You tell it through an individual who's helping small medium sized enterprises gain access to upgrading memory. And I mean he's just thinking this is out of this world.
- [33:00]
Ender Current
Yeah, indeed. I mean this is where the AI boom is spilling over into real living costs. You mentioned, for example, I spoke to a couple of companies, one of them in Baltimore. More he, he deals with small businesses, he does your IT services. So they come in the door looking for a memory storage upgrade or maybe even a new computer. And he's saying to them, look, because of the AI boom demand for chips, that's driving up the cost for the components he needs like RAM storage, ssd, that's driving it up significantly. And as a result obviously that means their upgrade job will be much more expensive to the point where he says he's telling some customers, look, you might as well go and buy a new computer or a new laptop. And the cost of the new computer, new laptop is also going up as a result. So this, you know, these chips go into everything that we use in every walk of life and flowing through now to the inflation data, I'm going to
- [33:48]
Caroline Hyde
just read this and because I couldn't believe it, it's the AI summary of your story. But the memory squeeze will add 0.4 percentage points to headline inflation before it eases, according to Bloomberg Economics. It is shocking, shocking to me that there is a single basis point. We're talking about a category of specific hardware and chips impacting inflation at a super substantive level. Like I've spoken to you for years, you've been all around the world looking at different economies, different supply chains. Is that shocking to you? What have you learned in the real world economy about that data point?
- [34:25]
Ender Current
It's certainly an impact. I mean, the official data that we had yesterday, today to your point, showed that the technology and computer components part of the inflation indicators was actually up by just about 15% from a year ago. That's, that's a record increase. So it is having an impact. Now, to be clear, obviously, it's not the only issue driving inflation right now. The Iran more, of course, because the impact on energy is a bigger driver, but it is filtering, is filtering through in a meaningful way. And economists are saying it's going to be enough to keep inflation simmering at a point where it wouldn't otherwise be. That's a critical thing. And of course that's a real worry for policymakers. So the inflation story may not be the only factor what's keeping in terms of what's keeping us inflation elevated, but it is certainly one of the factors and that's a direct consequence of this boom that we're all seeing.
- [35:17]
Caroline Hyde
And when we were discussing markets a moment ago, I should also select, of course, the war in Iran. The Middle east is like a driver or catalyst in what's happening in equities at least today. Bloomberg's end of current in D.C. awesome. Really appreciate it. Thank you. So stocks staged, let's say a cautious rebound with tech stocks somewhat leading the way. Like as we were talking about, there's a little bit of bifurcation in the bucket of the NASDAQ 100. But concerns about a potential escalation. Escalation, right. Of the conflict in the Middle east are keeping investors a little bit on edge. Oil prices are still a factor. Again, I still think space X has quite a lot to do with this. Let's bring in Christina Hooper for her chief market strategist in the Man Group. $228.7 billion in assets under management. You know, I say this quite often, particularly for the tech sector, like one session a market does not make. But, but what is the story you see in the numbers on the screen in front of you right now?
- [36:06]
Christina Hooper
Well, I think there is a lot of excitement around Space X. This is I think creating a very significant level of positive sentiment. So much so that markets can really look through all the geopolitical risk and say, hey, this is something exciting. This is something that has incredibly long term potential. Long term. It is, you know, it is to me a story about markets that want to focus, focus on the positive. And this is giving them a reason to be positive.
- [36:42]
Ed Ludlow
As a market strategist, Christina, when you're getting bombarded with calls, should I buy into Space X? Should I be looking at Open Air and Anthropic and all the IPOs that might be coming? What is your answer?
- [36:53]
Christina Hooper
My answer is I think we need to think of it in terms of the context of a diversified portfolio. There is certainly potential there. As I talked about, there's, there's growth opportunity opportunities. We also have to recognize that valuations are high. And when valuations are high, stocks are vulnerable to a rerating, especially in an environment in which you have an enormous amount of geopolitical risk. Now that may impact some stocks more than others, but typically when you have rates going up, that exerts downward pressure on equities, particularly long duration equities like tech names. So, so if you're looking out far longer term for your earnings, for your payoff, so to speak, then you're, you could very well see some kind of a rerating.
- [37:39]
Caroline Hyde
Christina, part of the Space X IPO equation is slightly mechanical. So some of the index fast track inclusion. Right. And in very simple terms the passive funds will have to by their own bylaws, rebalance. Could you explain that a little bit a the basics of it. But when you're a strategist looking across assets, assets, what you think will happen as a result of that?
- [37:59]
Christina Hooper
Well, essentially you have a built in demand that is vast because if you think about all the different owners of, you know, index like fun products, you have this captive audience that will be owning it as part of that. And so that certainly changes the dynamics. That's very different than the other IPOs we've seen. And again it's part of why there's so much excitement. And there's a view that, that this stock price could go up quite significantly from here.
- [38:32]
Ed Ludlow
Isn't it an irony that Elon Musk has always pushed and railed against passive? Yeah, but passive is going to be such a driver of demand more broadly for the ipo, but so too is the commitment to the retail investor. Have you done much strategic thought around the impact of retail investor right now on broader markets? Because they're a loyal bunch quite often but they can also ride in on mean themes and cause more volatility?
- [38:56]
Christina Hooper
Oh absolutely. I think that's why there are so many firms that essentially monitor Reddit and other sites. I think that was learned from GameStop that that retail investors are quite powerful now. I think what we're seeing now is that retail investors are seeing, seeing opportunities in technology, particularly AI related names and they have put their full force behind it. That's not to say we haven't seen institutional investors as well. And so that has created quite a dynamic and that is really I think largely behind the kind of incredible recovery we've seen over the last couple of months. The returns are really quite astounding.
- [39:35]
Caroline Hyde
I would love to dwell on this if that's okay. Christina. So Bloomberg reported that there was $70 billion of retail demand for the Space X IPO though we don't actually know the allocation yet so it's oversubscribed. But one of the thesis that theses that you know the the existing investor base of Space X tell me over and over again retail understands the story better. They're more likely to hold on to the shares for longer and that will support the valuation over a longer time period. You model for that. Do you share that belief?
- [40:07]
Christina Hooper
So I think it can be a double edged soared. Yes, retail does understand the story. That's part of why there's so much excitement around it and there's so much retail demand for the ipo. But by the same token because retail understands the story, if we see cracks form in critical businesses then you could see retail react to that. Again we have that sort of built in demand because of the placement in, in the index. But having said that, you could see still see a lot of volatility, you could see some kind of rerating in this environment if you see yields continue to go up and if you see retail investors just become risk averse in general, which could easily happen.
- [40:48]
Ed Ludlow
Christina Hoover always so measured, always so thoughtful. Thank you for coming on Man Group chief market strategist there. Coming up from Snacks the software Gopal Partners with Space X AI for a new shopping experience. We speak with the GoPuff Co CEO on why Space X AI why they're offering why Grop this is Bloomberg Tech.
- [41:15]
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- [43:28]
Caroline Hyde
as Space X heads towards its IPO tomorrow, investors are betting on more than rockets and chat bots and satellites. The company says Enterprise AI represents a $26.5 trillion opportunity. But can GROK actually win corporate customers? One of the few companies putting it to work is GoPuff, which built its new shopping assistant on Xi's models. Joining us now is GoPuff CEO Rafael Elisheva. It's a great case study, right? I think a lot of people read the prospectus and were like, okay, the future of Space X AI is enterprise AI. But they have struggled a little bit to get people to use the models in a meaningful way. You are just explain the basics of the relationship and what you've actually done with the technology.
- [44:15]
Rafael Elisheva
Yeah. Ed, Caroline, thank you so much for having me. So over the last 13 years GOPOV has built infrastructure to be the fastest and most affordable player in delivery. And our partnership with Space X and the product that we co developed called Go solves the final friction point that we really had, which is the consumer shopping experience. So we thought about this differently than I think a lot of other folks. And it's not just an LM wrapper that's built within our app, but in fact as a co developed experience where it's a whole new consumer, whole new consumer product where you could shop via voice, you can talk to it, have total, total conversation like you would have with your best friend. Go will build your cart so if it knows enough about you, it'll actually develop and build whole cart. And it has this TikTok style scrolling experience where you can scroll and discover new products that are hyper personalized and cared for you. Yeah, so this is a whole new experience that we co developed together with SpaceX over the last year.
- [45:16]
Ed Ludlow
And Rafael, what's interesting is when you're using data from X, you'll know that I'm all in on the next Sim 5 game on Saturday and suddenly I'm being offered chicken wings or I'm being offered chips or whatever it might be because I'm ordering gopoff on that moment on the Saturday. But from actually embedding within X and within Grok, did you push away other relationships? Did you decide no thanks Open Air? No thanks. Anthropic. Did you look at doing it with competitors?
- [45:44]
Rafael Elisheva
You know this, this kind of relationship that we had and the kind of product that we wanted to build, this wasn't just a plug and play that we could have done with anyone. So we looked for folks that had the right technology and Space X has amongst the best technology both for Voice and Imagine and a partner that was willing to co develop this whole new consumer shopping experience for us. So you know, this was a long, you know, 10, 11 month process that we co developed together with a partner that was willing to work with us, you know, even as early as this morning, talking with our engineers and co developing this thing together to make it even better. So we were looking for a partner that had the right technology, which Space X is I think cutting edge and the best both in voice and in image generation, and a partner that was willing to co develop this new product together.
- [46:34]
Caroline Hyde
Could you talk a little bit about how the economics of IT work? Like how does XI price things with you? It sounds all also a bit like you get good access to the forward deployed engineers, like daily access. All of that is a big factor right now because everyone is counting the cost of tokens.
- [46:51]
Rafael Elisheva
Yeah, yeah. So it's a strategic relationship that we built together with SpaceX from, from day one. And the way that we thought about the scaling is we wanted a provider that can provide, you know, a super high quality product bought across voice and image and is arguably the lowest cost provider. So we built a relationship that scales
- [47:15]
Caroline Hyde
are the lowest cost provider. You benchmarked against OpenAI and Anthropic on the cost as well?
- [47:21]
Rafael Elisheva
Yeah, we looked at, we looked at a lot of players when we did this and cost was one of the factors here. But the quality of the product and the willingness to co develop this together, all of that kind of of gave us a lot of confidence to work together with Space X. And I think the product kind of speaks for itself if you play with it. I think it's second to none from a consumer AI experience.
- [47:44]
Ed Ludlow
I mean, Rafael is interesting reporting out over at Wall Street Journal. For example, there's a thought that OpenAI might be doing some drastic price cuts in particular basically the cost of its product. People are wonderfully, token maxing are suddenly realizing how expensive that is and they want to do that perhaps ahead of competitors like Anthropic. Are you seeing return on such a investment? Is it really driving growth for the business?
- [48:08]
Rafael Elisheva
You know, we're a week in to go launching and I'll tell you, a lot of the consumer metrics really early on are great. You know, basket size is up and frequency within the first week is up. But what's even more special is the kind of conversations that our consumers are having with Go. You know, we saw a conversation earlier today with the mom saying hey, my kid go, my kid is sick, can you help me? Or a conversation a few days ago with someone asking, hey, I'm hosting a barbecue for six people, Go, can you help me? And that kind of relationship that we're building with the customer is kind of very special and I think those kind of relationships are the ones that are going to win and lead to ultimate ultimately better KPIs across the board.
- [48:52]
Ed Ludlow
Rafael, it's great speaking with you. I'm the co founder and co CEO of GoPuff. Appreciate the take on Grok and AI and Space X, but there's a lot to talk from governments around the world at the moment about adopting AI. Many countries still haven't delivered on that adoption. That's according to OpenAI's head of countries and the former UK Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne. He sat down with Bloomberg Tech Europe's Tom MacKenzie for the the Founders Forum in the UK.
- [49:18]
George Osborne
I think you are seeing what is true is that many governments haven't yet really delivered on the adoption. They've talked about it, they've, they've got ambitions around it, but they're still in the process of delivering. Now I know I've been in government things take a while but the governments I think that do adopt more quickly will be the big winners. They'll be the winners in their national economy, winners in the quality of their public services and winners intentionally in like where their country is going to be over the next century.
- [49:49]
Caroline Hyde
Coming up, many things about the Space X IPO have been unusual. Going to talk through the mechanisms of this public market launch next, ready for liftoff, etc etc. This is Bloomberg Tech. Breaking news. Crossing the terminal. Space X Preparing to sell $75 billion worth of shares. At least a $5 billion order coming from BlackRock. That's according to the Wall Street Journal, citing sources Bloomberg had reported right that there were several institutions that had placed orders for $10 billion worth of shares. The allocation will get worked out in the next 24 hours through to tomorrow morning pre trade. But BlackRock, according to the Journal, at least 5 billion. Maybe it goes up. We'll see.
- [50:41]
Ed Ludlow
There are some big orders coming from institutional but also from retail. Ed and that is today's big number, more than $70 billion. Retail orders for Space X's IPO have actually topped 70 billion according to sources. And while individual investors are expected to be allocated well at least 20% of the available shares at a $75 billion IPO size, many are going to be left unfilled. That's just one of the rather unusual things about this listing. Joining us to discuss the IPO mechanics, the market impact, the thesis, Brian White, managing director and co head of tech investment banking over at Piper Sandler. You're not one of the banks working on the listing, which frees us up to discuss things at length, Brian. And I'm so fascinated by some of the technicalities because you've put in your notes, look, this is a very small float. $75 billion is enormous, a record IPO, but compared to the valuation of the company, very limited amount of how many stock we get access to. Is that an issue?
- [51:37]
Brian White
Well, it is. It's about 4% of the float. And there's overriding demand. You're seeing demand from retail and institutional as evidenced by the blackrock order right there. But over time, hopefully they will continue to sell more and more. But right now it looks like like the demand is quite high and they could probably actually increase the amount that they want to raise. And I'm sure that that's something that the underwriters are thinking about as we speak.
- [52:00]
Caroline Hyde
Ryan, they did the unusual thing and set out a price pre roadshow 135. How do you think the bankers, the potential investors and everyone else responded to that behind the scenes?
- [52:13]
Brian White
Well, first, what they wanted to do is to back into what they believe is an appropriate valuation. And that's a valuation based on all the facets of the Space X business. Number two. Space X is unique and it's led by probably one of the best entrepreneurs of all time in Elon Musk. And there is tremendous demand for it. And instead of the normal mechanism where you're trying to determine how to price based on where you think demand is and what the market values that they've determined the price from the outset, what that's doing is putting an artificial floor on where it's going to be. But what it also may allow for is a very, very large pop for retail investors tomorrow. And I think that that's going to be what we want to watch, just how much it pops at the open and where it sustains itself. Because much of retail may see such a large pop that what they decide to do is to sell down throughout the day tomorrow.
- [53:01]
Ed Ludlow
But Brian, aren't there limitations as to how much retail is allowed to sell out? Or at least some of the brokers that they buy through will punish them if they sell on the first day.
- [53:11]
Brian White
Well, the we've never seen a IPO with this much retail allocation. And so 20% at least is going to retail and the retail is going to be able to have access to sell. Now, what you may be referring to is some of them may have some issues with future IPOs, but most of the retail that's in this IPO is probably not necessarily planning for much more IPO investment.
- [53:33]
Ed Ludlow
You really think they're not going to be in Anthropic or Open AI if they want to buy into xi?
- [53:38]
Brian White
Well, they would like to be, but it's unclear if Open Air and Anthropic will actually follow a similar mechanism. My instinct is they may not, but we shall see because this is setting a new precedent tomorrow.
- [53:48]
Caroline Hyde
Brian, we reported yesterday that Pre Float Space X has IG rating from the three main agencies. To you, how much of a signal of that is that they will very quickly go back to the markets and raise more money through any mechanism available?
- [54:05]
Brian White
I mean, it's. I think it's a tremendous signal. I think that they are going. Look at the burn that they disclosed in the prospectus. Look at the ambitions that they have, particularly with the XI part of the business and with their vision about where they want to see their AI business and their space business over time. This is a business that will continue to consume massive amounts of capital and it will continue to need to access the public markets to raise that capital.
- [54:28]
Caroline Hyde
You didn't get a brief on this. We're being transparent about that. But is there a way that Piper Sandler can play this IPO event?
- [54:35]
Brian White
Well, what we're trying to do is just continue to advise our clients about where Defense Technology is heading. You know, the exciting things that is happening in space, the future of, you know, defense, those are the areas that we're spending a lot of our time in terms of the future opportunities around Space X. It's something that, you know, our team team is very fixated on, but we're not participating in this IPO tomorrow.
- [54:58]
Caroline Hyde
Brian White, co head of technology investment banking at Pipe Center. Thank you very much. Really appreciate it. Okay, you know, this is it, the final sprint. And this is it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech. Are you ready?
- [55:11]
Ed Ludlow
I'm feeling ready, yeah. You ready? Because you've got a long day ahead of you. Ed Ludlow. There's potentially coverage of these things price as coverage throughout the trading day here on Bloomberg, after the trading day.
- [55:22]
Caroline Hyde
And of course, you know, like the main takeaway from the guests, it's all premeditated. You kind of know what's going to happen. Still lots to review on the pod.
- [55:29]
Ed Ludlow
There is. Get that podcast you can find on the terminal as well as online on Apple, Spotify and iHeart. I have ED here for another day in New York City. This is Bloomberg Tech.
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