Tech Trade Under Pressure; Musk Sells His Vision of the Future

Summary

Bloomberg Tech – June 5, 2026

Episode: Tech Trade Under Pressure; Musk Sells His Vision of the Future

Host: Ed Ludlow
Overview:
This episode of Bloomberg Tech dives deep into the technology sector’s volatile week, anchored around anticipation of SpaceX’s record-breaking IPO and ongoing market corrections—particularly in chip stocks. The episode features a mix of market analysis, interviews with industry leaders, and discussion of the growing intersections between innovation, capital markets, AI advances, and hardware (especially in space and manufacturing). Notably, it highlights Elon Musk’s effort to sell his vision for SpaceX’s future, the ripple effects for the market, and how investors and tech companies are positioning themselves for what's next.

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Main Themes

• SpaceX IPO as a Market Catalyst: Deep-dive into why SpaceX is going public now, its massive valuation, and anticipated market impact.
• Tech Sector Market Correction: Market analysis focusing on chip stocks, interest rates, and the surprisingly hot jobs report.
• Capex Boom Driven by AI: Exploration of major AI players’ capital needs, Anthropic’s IPO plans, and the implications for infrastructure and inflation.
• "Physical AI" and Hardware’s Comeback: Venture capital’s renewed interest in merging software innovation with physical systems like robotics and satellites.
• Space Industry Disruption: How new startups and manufacturing bottlenecks are shaping the future of space infrastructure.
• AI's Economic Impact: Discussion about whether AI is showing up in productivity, the labor market, and macroeconomic data.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. SpaceX’s Anticipated IPO Sets the Tone ([01:59]–[06:56])

• Record-Breaking Scale: The SpaceX IPO is expected to raise $75B+ at a $1.77T valuation—the biggest ever. ([05:30])
• Capital Needs: Elon Musk is clear—the company is embarking on a "massive new growth phase" and needs capital.

  "We're embarking on a massive new growth phase and we need capital for that." – Bloomberg Tech Host channeling Musk ([03:28])

• Investor Enthusiasm and Concerns: The IPO is already "way oversubscribed" despite being excluded from S&P 500's fast track, which some see as a blessing for market stability.

  "Perhaps that's actually for the best given that there is so much concern about all of these sort of market mechanics and just how disruptive this will be." – Craig Trudell, Bloomberg ([06:07])

• Geopolitical Complications: Chinese and Hong Kong investors are reportedly excluded from the IPO for security reasons. ([06:56])
• Ripple to Other Companies: JP Morgan flips its Tesla share outlook positively the day after co-hosting the SpaceX investor event.

  "JP Morgan...increasing the price target by more than 200%." – Craig Trudell ([07:10])

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2. Tech Stocks Under Pressure & Macro Forces ([07:34]–[13:24])

• Market Movements:
  • Chips Down: 4.7-6%+ declines this week despite strong year-to-date gains.

    "The underperformance is in chip stocks. We're down 4.7%." – Host ([01:59])

  • S&P Breaks Streak: Fails to hit 10th straight weekly gain due to jobs data and interest rate fears.
• Strong Jobs Report:

  "Job growth is really strong. Some lags on the wage side, particularly compared to inflation." – Martha Gimbel, Yale Budget Lab ([08:45])

• Fed Policy Uncertainty:

  "We just have to wait for the economy to evolve. Everybody wants to resolve the uncertainty today, but I think that's a mistake." – Mary Daly, SF Fed President ([09:27])

• AI Seen as Early in Economic Impact:

  "It doesn't really seem to be showing up in the productivity data...it is still early in this technology." – Martha Gimbel ([10:13])

• AI Capex and Inflation: Gigantic capital infusions for AI, both from IPOs and established giants like Alphabet, may add to inflation, but evidence is nuanced.

  "These models are not free, the data centers are not free. And so as you're having money pile into that sector, it's going to drive prices up." – Martha Gimbel ([12:16])

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3. The Capital Intensive AI Arms Race ([14:39]–[17:32])

• Anthropic’s Strategy:
  Anthropic President Daniela Amodei blunt about why they’re going public: compute is the main constraint, and public markets are the best place to raise the required capital.

  "A very capital intensive business to train AI models...the public market is very well suited to that." – Daniela Amodei ([15:58])

• Compute as the Battleground:
  OpenAI paved the way for trillion-dollar compute ambitions, now joined by Anthropic’s public capital push.

  "They need a lot more compute and that is really one of...the main motivating factors for going public at this time." – Shereen Ghafari, Bloomberg ([16:34])

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4. News on Founders, Hardware, & "Physical AI" ([17:32]–[46:51])

• Brian Chesky (Airbnb) Enters AI: Launching a new AI lab as a "side project" focused on design and UI, reflecting a trend of top founders starting AI ventures beyond their main companies. ([17:45])
• Broadcom’s Reluctance Toward M&A:
  Broadcom CEO Hock Tan says their explosive AI-driven growth makes it hard to find worthwhile acquisitions:

  "Meanwhile, organically this phenomenon we call generative AI...makes it very hard to choose M&A over focusing and succeeding in generative AI compute." – Hock Tan ([18:56])

• Capex & Economic Effects:

  "They're unleashing an incredible capex boom and...created an incredible wealth effect." – Jeffrey Rosenberg, BlackRock ([20:51])

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5. Satellites, Space-Based Compute & StarCloud’s Case Study ([27:42]–[31:45])

• Space-Based Data Centers:
  • SpaceX plans a vast orbital network of data centers with 100 GW compute capacity.
  • StarCloud, led by Philip Johnson, already deploying Nvidia H100-equipped satellites.
  • Plans for 88,000 satellite “inference nodes” already filed.

  "We launched the first Nvidia H100 in November last year...we just filed with the FCC for a constellation of 88,000 of them.” – Philip Johnson, StarCloud CEO ([27:59])

• Role of SpaceX as Enabler:
  StarCloud and others are SpaceX “rideshare” customers, suggesting broader ecosystem benefit.

  “We are a very happy customer of SpaceX.” – Philip Johnson ([30:53])

• IPO Ripple Effect:
  Growing capital flows and interest in the entire space sector, not just SpaceX.

  "There's just enormous interest in the Space industry that wasn't there before...a lot of that is fueled by people now understanding space, realizing there's a huge market opportunity." – Philip Johnson ([31:18])

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6. Satellite Manufacturing Bottleneck & Apex’s Role ([31:45]–[36:19])

• Production vs. Launch:
  Apex aims to remedy the shortage in satellite production ("bottleneck"), as opposed to launch, by standardizing satellite SKUs for rapid scaling.

  "We're going to have a set number of products...we go and produce them in the factory I'm standing in right now ahead of any customer demand." – Ian Cinnamon, Apex CEO ([33:59])

• Capital Flows Mirror IPOs:
  Multiple $200 million raises at Apex, driven by market excitement and SpaceX’s success.

  "We don't actually need the capital, but it's simply a way for us to speed up and actually go faster." – Ian Cinnamon ([34:51])

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7. AI, Hardware, and Venture Capital’s New Love Affair ([39:17]–[46:51])

• AI’s Future = Tools for Thought, but with Human Oversight:

  “The most advanced AI systems are the most incredible tools for thought that humanity can ever have...this requires very intentional research work and product work." – Mira Moradi, Thinking Machines Lab CEO ([39:29])

• Software + Hardware = "Physical AI":
  • Investors turning attention from pure software to companies merging AI with physical systems—robotics, manufacturing, aerospace.

  "There's a big white space...what does AI do in the physical world? And that's where we've been spending a lot of time." – Nina Shahjan, Index Ventures ([42:57])

• SpaceX and Elon Musk as Market Proxies:
  Founders Fund’s Trey Stevens says SpaceX has a role in "almost every fund," and the main lesson is:

  "Never bet against Elon. It's just a bad idea." – Trey Stevens ([45:31])

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Memorable Quotes & Notable Moments

• On Tech Correction:

  "Stocks go up and stocks go down. And as you taught me over a number of years, zoom out on the chart. Don't look at the red flashing on the screen." – Bloomberg Tech Host to Tom Keene ([24:18])

• On IPOs Enabling Private Markets:

  "How much do you think private markets will come into it...there's a lot of aspiration from people around the world to get involved in private companies but the mechanisms aren't there sometimes." – Host ([22:43])

• On Breaking New Ground in Space Compute:

  "We're talking about potentially the largest market opportunity ever. We're talking about trillions of dollars per year of capex." – Philip Johnson ([30:13])

• On the New Economic Cycle:

  "When you see that, that is leading to a higher degree of economic growth than anybody expected from those two facets...surge in investment spend coming out of this AI demand for investment and a wealth effect that's powering consumption." – Jeffrey Rosenberg, BlackRock ([21:02])

• On the Discipline of Hardware Startups:

  "If you get one character wrong in this code, something could actually blow up like a nuclear reactor or a rocket." – Nina Shahjan, Index Ventures ([43:41])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment/Topic | Time | |--------------------------------|----------| | SpaceX IPO & Musk Vision | 01:59–06:56 | | Market Correction Analysis | 07:34–13:24 | | Anthropic & AI Capital Race | 14:39–17:32 | | Airbnb’s Chesky & AI Labs | 17:32–18:22 | | Broadcom, Chips, & AI Growth | 18:56–21:14 | | Capex Boom & Wealth Effects | 20:51–22:01 | | Space-Based Data Centers (StarCloud) | 27:42–31:45 | | Satellite Manufacturing Bottlenecks (Apex) | 31:45–36:19 | | AI’s Social/Philosophical Implications (Moradi) | 39:17–42:02 | | VC “Physical AI” Thesis | 42:02–46:51 |

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Conclusion

This episode captures an inflection point: Heavy investor and public interest swirls around the SpaceX IPO, highlighting how AI, space, and hardware innovation are driving not just technology markets, but broader economic and labor landscapes. The market volatility reflects both a needed correction and an undercurrent of optimism for America’s "unstoppable energy" and innovative spirit. With voices from venture capital, public markets, and the front lines of AI and space manufacturing, Bloomberg Tech’s coverage gives listeners a snapshot of a sector—and economy—in fast, uncertain, exhilarating motion.

Transcript

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[Bloomberg Tech Announcer]

Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News. Bloomberg Tech is live from coast to coast with Caroline Hyde in New and Ed Ludlow in San Francisco.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

This is Bloomberg Tech. Coming up, Elon Musk enchants investors with his vision of the future as questions about the Space X IPO are brushed aside at an investor event. Plus coming in hot jobs surge in May, but tech stocks are under pressure as investors reassess the path for interest rates and three of the biggest names in AI at Bloomberg Tech San Francisco, we're going to bring you those conversations throughout the program. Space X is IPO is absolutely dominating the news cycle but there is so much happening in financial markets and a lot with the tech sector. The S&P 500 is down a percentage point but really the underperformance is in chip stocks. We're down 4.7% on the stocks. Interestingly, we're still positive on the week but everyone kind of talking about chips and saying we are due a correction. Actually outside of chips, the rest of the trade is getting hammered. Those jobs numbers for May were hot. US 10 year yield 4.5%. So bad news guys. I'm sorry. I know it's Friday. The S&P 500 is down on the week and that means that it will not, as it stands hit a historic 10th week of gains. It will stop short at nine straight weeks. Again, the Space X IPO, the imminency of the pricing next Thursday and the trade following that is a big factor in the markets. It is going to be some form of catalyst and volatility is being very closely watched. Let's get to our top story. Elon Musk in chance investors.

[Tom Keene]

Why SpaceX public now? Because you had choices you didn't have to. Why now?

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

We're embarking on a massive new growth phase and we need capital for that. Okay. Okay.

[Broadcom CEO Hock Tan]

Number two, another thing is the revenue.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Like I also feel pretty good about like the revenue projections like, like before,

[Broadcom CEO Hock Tan]

like revenue is a little unstable.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Elon Musk still has the power to sell a vision that a Space X investor event yesterday hosted by Jamie Dimon at JP Morgan's headquarters, talk of the company's future overshadowed questions about the IPO itself. The absolute latest this morning is Bloomberg reporting that this IPO is already way oversubscribed. There are a number of other pieces of news you have to get to Bloomberg's. Craig Ruddell is with us. I actually want to start just with last night you were manning the desk managing the team of like, okay, what is new and what Elon Musk is saying here. What's the big takeaway that we need to know about in what's an unusual pre IPO pitch on stage, so to speak.

[Bloomberg's Craig Trudell]

I found last night's love fest between Dimon and Musk, you know, fascinating. It's not often that you see Jamie Dimon struggle to get a word in and yet we saw a little bit of that where you know, it took time for, for, for Musk to get through his answers and he was quite long winded and they had some fun about that as we saw in that clip. I think also, you know, Musk was pretty forthcoming about this notion that what's, what's driving this is that he needs capital. And you know, we saw this week as well, you know, even at Alphabet, this, this notion that a company of that size, that is, that cash generative still is going out to raise $80 billion with the backing of Berkshire Hathaway. So I think this is part of, you know, this broader movement by, by tech companies and by, you know, hyperscalers to raise absolutely as much money as they possibly can given just how intensive this race has become.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

If you're watching Bloomberg Tech and you're coming to this story fresh, that's a surprise. But basically Space X is on A roadshow right now. And they plan to do final pricing of the IPO next Thursday. They've already said $135 a share, raising more than $75 billion at a $1.77 trillion valuation. This will be the biggest IPO of all time. Craig, you're the managing editor. That kind of leads coverage of the company. I appreciate that. But there is some kind of market mechanics things that are really important in this news cycle. One being that Space X and these other IPOs waiting in the wings will not get fast tracked into the s and P500. Can you talk a little bit about that and why that matters?

[Bloomberg's Craig Trudell]

Yeah, I think that's a setback. But I think it's also the case that the S and P, you know, is deciding differently from some other indices. And so, you know, the NASDAQ has taken a different, different approach. And so perhaps there will be, you know, some indexes, you know, where you and I, if we're invested in index fund ones, you know, will get a piece of this company. And it's just a matter of some sort of spacing out of when we'll see demand for these shares from, from various, you know, institutional investors. And perhaps that's actually for the best given that there is so much concern about all of these sort of market mechanics and just how disruptive this will be given how, how small a float, you know, we're seeing this company list here.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Another quick story for me this morning. China and Hong Kong investors are being told, or the underwriting is being told, that they can't take orders from investors in China, Hong Kong because of security. There's also something going on with Tesla and sell side coverage that's, that's relevant. Just very quickly sum that up for us.

[Bloomberg's Craig Trudell]

It's fascinating to me. We saw last night Jamie Dimon and Elon Musk yucking it up. These two haven't always been so close. And yet the morning after we see JP Morgan go from one of the the most bearish banks on Tesla shares to a new analyst taking over coverage and increasing the price target by more than 200%. So very notable in light of last night's event.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Bloomberg's Craig Trudell, thank you very much. Nvidia has certified Samsung, SK, Hynix and Micron to supply HBM4 memory for its next generation AI chips. Nvidia CEO Jensen Wong confirmed that move just after arriving in Seoul. All three vendors have been qualified. All three vendors are in production and they're all racing. They're racing all to support Vera Rubin. The Vera Rubin platform now in full production ahead of third quarter deliveries with systems combining Nvidia CPUs, GPUs, with those HBM4 memory chips again today. Right now in the markets, chips under pressure. The labor market keeps refusing to to crack. Today's jobs report came in stronger than expected. But in the market, tech stocks are under pressure. Investors basically reassessing the path for interest rates. For more, we're joined by Martha Gimbel, executive director of the Yale Budget Lab. I always enjoy having you on the show, Martha. I think you make what's happening in the US Economy understandable, digestible for a broad portion of people. What did you see in the data this morning? What was the story it was telling you?

[Martha Gimbel]

I mean, it's interesting. This is one of those reports where as an economist, you kind of open it up, look at it and go, wow, this is really great. Not a ton going on here and then close it and go get to go get your coffee. So, you know, I think this is a report that looks like what it is. Job growth is really strong. You know, some, some lags on the wage side, particularly compared to inflation. But if you're thinking about where the Fed goes from here, this is certainly giving them room to try to do some action on inflation with interest rates.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

There is an AI story here, but when we spoke to San Francisco Fed President Mary Daly yesterday, we had to get to where is policy right now. I just want to play you a soundbite from what she said.

[Bloomberg Tech Announcer]

Right now policy is in a good place. We are prepared to respond either way, whatever the economy brings. But I think giving more forward guidance about what's possible could be misguiding in the end because we just have to wait for the economy to evolve. Everybody wants to resolve the uncertainty today,

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

but I think that's a mistake because

[Bloomberg Tech Announcer]

it will cost close off our mind about what we really have to look at.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

I think that's pretty standard interim Fed speak, let's say. But one of the things we tried to get at is, is AI showing up in productivity data or are you seeing anything that maybe suggests in the labor market, companies big and small holding off hiring because they just don't know what I will or won't do for them. I wonder if you see any evidence at all.

[Martha Gimbel]

I really am not seeing any evidence of major impacts in the economic data at this time. I should say, you know, obviously on the investment side and things like that, it is making a difference, but if it doesn't seem to be holding companies from hiring at this point, it doesn't really seem to be showing up in the productivity data. You know, in some ways we wouldn't expect it to. I know I keep saying this and I'm a broken record, but like, it is still early in this. It is really, really early in this technology. And in some ways we're holding it to an impossible standard to say, wow, it must already be impacting the labor market, Martha.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

I mean, you're not alone in saying that. I think that's really important to point out. People come on Bloomberg Tech every week and say this very early. One thing I really want to try and get deep into is the impact of the capital expenditure. So, you know, the numbers are just ginormous. And as you just mentioned, like in the capital markets, whether it's IPO or what Alphabet's doing in its equity offering, is all of that inflationary or is it disinflationary? Like, some of the utilities would even argue that, like, if the hyperscalers take the burden of these big projects, it may cause energy prices to come down. And it's always been an argument that we found hard to track.

[Martha Gimbel]

So, first of all, I think it's important to say that the most important inflationary impact on the energy side right now is what's going on in the Middle East. That's going to trump anything else. I do think the evidence is clear, if you're looking at the inflation data, that there is some upward impact from what is going on in the AI space. You know, if we change what's happening on the utility side and how these things are financed, that might start working in the other direction, but I don't think that's happening quite yet.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Yeah, I just, you know, people sometimes have short memories. I go back, I think it was 2/4 ago when Matter said one reason we're raising CapEx is not because we need to spend more. It's because the cost of what we're trying to do is higher because of the environment. And what I'm trying to work out is how circular that is, how much that feeds back into inflation.

[Martha Gimbel]

I mean, I think right now this is a sector that people really want to invest in. It's also an incredibly expensive sector to invest in. These models are not free, the data centers are not free. And so as you're having money pile into that sector, it's going to drive prices up. And then if you want to keep investing, they're going to have to pay those prices.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Martha Gimbal of Yale Budget Lab Hot Jobs data in May. We talked a lot about inflation though as well. Thank you very much. Now coming up and Profit's co founder explains why the company needs to go public. A really big conversation next. This is Bloomberg Tech.

[EY Consulting Representative]

You have invested in artificial intelligence. Maybe you have pilots or even proofs of concepts that show real promise. The next opportunity is scaling that success across the business. At EY Consulting, we help organizations redesign how work gets done so innovation can move beyond the nascent stage. By addressing architecture, operating models and governance, we help AI deliver real, lasting value at scale. When AI fits how you actually work, that is EY Consulting.

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[Bloomberg Tech Host]

the world is

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innovation economy to invest where progress begins, finding opportunities that build and protect wealth for individuals and institutions that want a seat at the edge of tomorrow. Put the power of Oppenheimer thinking to work for you. Wealth management, capital markets, investment banking. Anthropic is warning that the technology is evolving faster than anticipated, raising the risk of AI systems systems autonomously building their own successes. In a new lengthy log post, the company says it would be good for the world to have the option to show or temporarily pause development on projects that become too dangerous. Anthropic says it will meet with Global policymakers and rival labs in the coming months to coordinate safety thresholds. All while the startup prepares for its highly anticipated ipo. And at a Bloomberg Tech event in San Francisco yesterday, and from its co founder and president Daniela Amodei was on stage explaining why the company needs to go public in this race against OpenAI. Listen to this. Speaking for ourselves and I think ideally, probably really for the industry more broadly, it's a very capital intensive business to train AI models.

[Martha Gimbel]

I think the sort of core set of companies that are working to advance

[Bloomberg Tech Announcer]

the frontier are just going to need access to to capital and I think the public market is very well suited to that.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

I want to get deep into this conversation with Bloomberg sharing Ghafari, who spoke to Danya Amade on stage yesterday. You know, it's a pretty simple explanation. Why do companies go public? They need money. And you actually got a little bit deeper into Anthropic's strategy for securing compute relative to OpenAI's. I think that's a really interesting place to jump in.

[Bloomberg's Shereen Ghafari]

Yeah, that's right. Open Air was really early to making some splashy announcements about how big they wanted to go on compute, spending up to a trillion, you know, or around that on these massive projects like Stargate. And at the time that was not at all something that was considered normal. A lot of people critiqued it and thought that was overly ambitious. Now we are seeing Anthropic be quite upfront about the fact that they need a lot more compute and that that is really one of the main, if not one of the main, motivating factors for going public at this time.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Very quickly on stream, what was your other big takeaway? What are you going to be writing about next?

[Bloomberg's Shereen Ghafari]

There's a lot more about just, you know, how these companies are managing the timeline of these IPOs. On the one hand, yes, you have access to more capital, but on the other, Wall Street's going to be be scrutinizing those numbers if they do flip public on the financials. And so these companies are going to have to ask themselves if they're really

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

ready at this exact moment in and amongst it all. Shereen, you and I also broke a story that Brian Chesky, the CEO of Airbnb, is starting a new AI company. What do we need to know?

[Bloomberg's Shereen Ghafari]

That's right. So Brian Chesky, co founder and CEO of Airbnb, starting a new AI lab, sort of Neo Lab, if you will, he will remain CEO of Airbnb and starts to say he will also not be CEO of this new Lab. But this is a sign and this is a bigger trend we're seeing where some of the existing tech founders who still want to go all in on the AI race if they're not directly doing an AI only company do may get involved in these sort of side projects or side companies. So it's an interesting one and it may end up having a design and use UI focus, which is something that Chesky is quite passionate about.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Bloomberg sharing Ghafari Top conversations, top reporting thank you very much. I want to take a quick look at the shares of Broadcom over five days. But remember Broadcom reported its earnings Wednesday night, traded into Thursday. We're down 10, 11% on the week. There was a big negative reaction in that Thursday session to the outlook outlook for the current period as it relates to AI chip sales. Broadcom CEO Hok Tan was one of the biggest speakers at Bloomberg Tech yesterday. He sat down with our executive editor for tech, Tom Giles and talks a lot about potential M and A.

[Broadcom CEO Hock Tan]

Listen to this and it's an interesting question. It's a very valid question because it cross my mind and that on my board on an ongoing basis, not regularly as do we do M and A. So I'll be very flip and give you a straight answer. In the last two years between 24 and 26 this year I would be doubling my revenues. I would create over $50 billion per year annualized on revenue. I'm looking around what can I buy? They even come close to that. And that's the tricky part. I mean is a distraction all M and a distraction to acquire go to regulators. Further distraction to integrate another year. Meanwhile organically this phenomenon we call generative AI and our ability to ship shape them picks and shovels the compute capacity into this demand which is almost insatiable makes it very hard to choose M and A over focusing and succeeding in generative AI compute.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Is there any area where you think you might want to sort of make

[Public/Oppenheimer Advertiser]

an exception to this?

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Whether it's maybe photonics, just to name

[Broadcom CEO Hock Tan]

one area photonics or you mean optics.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

I'm just throwing anything.

[Broadcom CEO Hock Tan]

Yeah. We ran the business. I ran a business model 20 years. I tried to very hard, I know tried to avoid bright shiny objects.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

That was Broadcom CEO Hock Tan speaking with Bloomberg's Tom Giles.

[Public/Oppenheimer Advertiser]

Forces of AI, right?

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

What are they unleashing right now they're

[Public/Oppenheimer Advertiser]

unleashing an incredible capex boom and to

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

this audience and to the topic of the show and created an incredible wealth effect. Right.

[Public/Oppenheimer Advertiser]

So when you see that that is

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

leading to a higher degree of economic growth than anybody expected from those two facets. Right. You've got an incredible surge in investment

[Public/Oppenheimer Advertiser]

spend coming out of this AI demand

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

for investment and a wealth effect that's powering consumption. That was Jeffrey Rosenberg of BlackRock speaking with Tom Keene and Scott Scarlet Fu. And an exclusive event for Bloomberg.com subscribers in New York earlier this week. That conversation coming ahead of the launch of Bloomberg Money Today, a new weekly show hosted by Tom and Scarlett airing every Friday, 12:00pm New York time. Tom Keene's here with us. Bloomberg Money the vertical. So interesting like what he was saying because like in our world, world over here, it's a wealth creation story from AI and on the Bloomberg terminal people have always read about personal finance, the wealth or success of their peers. What do you want to do this show, Tom?

[Tom Keene]

Well, what we want to do with the reps into what you're doing at Ludlow is go downstream from the fancy people you talk to out in the West Coast. I talked today to a gentleman about a company in Bismarck, North Dakota which is directly prosperous from everything that's going on with Bloomberg Technology. This huge follow on effect that Jeff Rosenberg was talking about. And it goes into the general sense of personal finance. We want to lift up that conversation but it goes to this dream of retirement within an America with huge retirement instability and most importantly getting to the wealth management, being in the wealth management and what do you do when you finally made it?

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

All of that is so relevant to like now, this week, next week, the coverage of Space X's IPO and the clamoring of basically wealth advisors on behalf of their clients. But also like what I'm interested Tom, is like how much you think private markets will come into it. There's a lot of aspiration from people around the world to get involved in private companies but the mechanisms aren't there sometimes. And we've written a lot about SPVs, for example, and trying to get in on the secondary market.

[Tom Keene]

The problem with a little bit of lineage as you learn that private markets means illiquidity somewhere down the road. You do that better than me. But I would say it's a big part of what we're doing. But we're really looking much more towards the more prosaic personal finance stories. But also that new access when you see 401ks and retirement plans that have ability in bitcoin, have ability in any kind of alternative investments. That is a whole new world after all. And we're going to focus on that.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

I'm conscious in the moment what one session a market does not make. But actually we're seeing declines extend quite significantly on the NASDAQ 100. Now the Philadelphia Semiconductor index of stocks is down significantly, although part of that is like we were due a correction. Having been up more than 80% year to date, you go to air in 35 minutes time. I don't want to, I don't want to front on it, but just give me an overview of today's show.

[Tom Keene]

I got to ask first, Ed, have you ever enjoyed a correction, have you ever enjoyed a bear market? Is it a whole new thing?

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

You know, that's why I always say one, one session of market does not make stocks go up and stocks go down. And as you taught me over a number of years, zoom out on the chart. Don't look at the red flashing on the screen.

[Tom Keene]

Zoom out over the chart and look at American prosperity which is booming right now in the Caroline Hyde in that love the world. We're going to talk to Liz Ann Saunders. She is on fire about the betting, the speculation in the market. Gabriella Santos and has one single sentence involved. You have to save more. That'll be two of the big focal points.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

We'll look at Bloomberg's Tom Keene. Thank you very much. And please don't miss the premiere of Bloomberg Money Today, 12pm New York time. Okay. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. We have to talk about financial markets. The NASDAQ 100 down 2 1/2 percent. The stocks down 6%. There's a lot of nervousness in the market. The trade is getting hammered on all sides. I would still observe that chip stocks are still up on the week, but the s and P500 is actually down on the week. That means that after nine straight weeks of gains, we fall short of a historic 10th. Economic data is playing a role here. Jobs data for May came in hot. We're looking at wage data and that's why you see that move in the US 10 year yield. There's also some digestion of Broadcom's earnings which were Wednesday night. But that outlook for the current period for chip sales, chip sales that did put some, some nervousness into the market. And a Space X IPO around the corner. There's a lot on the Bloomberg terminal about how that feeds into volatility. Speaking of Today's big number, 100 gigawatts, that's the annual compute capacity Space X says it ultimately wants to deploy in orbit. A lofty goal made no easier by the challenges of building and maintaining networks. Of thousands, even millions of these specialized spacecraft in a harsh, harsh orbital environment. What is a space based datacenter look like? Bloomberg did a mock up of how these craft would work. So this is the body inside. Radiation tolerant AI chips right in here around them, networking layer, power, thermal management, flight control systems. Then for communications, the satellites could rely on laser link around here rather than your traditional radio frequencies. That's kind of the squiggly line beaming back down to Earth, handling that enormous flow of data to power these systems. Absolutely. Massive solar array panels as well as batteries to store that energy when the sun's not that right when it's blocked. This up here is the radiator. On Earth, data centers use air or they use water for cooling in space. Radiators disperse the heat into deep space and they're going to need to handle far more heat than today's current designs out of this world. Yes, our next guest has already started down this complicated road. Philip Johnson is the CEO and co founder of Star Cloud, which launched the first Nvidia H100 chip aboard its satellite this past November. Put myself on the spot here. You tell me what was my explanation of the basics of orbital Data center? Like, did we get it right?

[Philip Johnson]

Excellent, excellent explanation.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

So for you, this is real, right? An H100 inside the form factor of a satellite. Explain how you got to that point, the engineering challenge, the deployment?

[Philip Johnson]

Yeah, for sure. So we, as you rightly mentioned, we launched the first Nvidia H100 in November last year. Actually we launched a satellite which has five GPUs, three from Nvidia, three from ARM. But the H100 was the most, the most important and interesting one. And the way we got there is we started the company about two and a half years ago and we had a very quick development cycle for that first spacecraft. And I think on the screen here, actually you can see one of our early renders of a very large 4 kilometer by 4 kilometer solar panel with a 5 gigawatt cluster in the middle. And that would be for something like training. We're more going to be doing things like right now we're very focused on these small inference nodes. So we'll be launching. We just filed with the FCC for a constellation of 88,000 of them, which enables us to deploy about 20 gigawatts of compute.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

And Philip, you know, we're zooming out now. This is a case study of a 5 gigawatt data center. Can you just reiterate what you said about the scale of the SONG solar arrays? What were the numbers on that?

[Philip Johnson]

Yes, this, this solar on the screen is about 4km by 4km with about a 1km by 4km radiator down the back there. I would say that renders from a couple of years ago when most workloads were for training. And it seemed a more, you know, we wanted to show that if you wanted to do any kind of workload, you could. And so we showed the hardest thing. You know, actually now it looks like 99% of all AI workloads will very soon be inference. And so we don't need to dock together a large structure like that. And that's the reason we're now doing this distributed constellation of much smaller satellites.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

So, you know, Philip, I want to be honest with the Bloomberg Tech audience. I invited you onto the program because this is Space X's pitch, right? A vast network of orbital data centers. And I guess that we in Space X, his case, we're still waiting for the designs and Elon Musk has said that, you know, in the coming weeks he will show his hand on that. You're a company that is already doing this? Yes, at right now, a limited and small scale. I just wondered if you'd account for that, you know, the idea that Space X plans to do this and you know, how Star Cloud will fit in with that.

[Philip Johnson]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think we really are talking about potentially the largest market opportunity ever. We're talking about trillions of dollars per year of capex will be deployed in SpaceX. And so everybody's going to have to have a solution for Space Compute. Some of that will be using Space X. But, you know, certainly lots of other people are going to want more independent clouds. And so we, that's the customer base we're going after initially. Also, we'll be serving workloads to, you know, other spacecraft, providing edge and cloud services for other spacecraft.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

What about the deployment of your satellites? Are you a customer of Space X on the rideshare program or how does that work?

[Philip Johnson]

Yes, we are a very happy customer of SpaceX on both the rideshare program and potentially for dedicated Falcon 9 launches. So, yeah, don't want to speak too soon, but we should have some interesting things to say about that soon.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

You come back on the show when you're ready. Let's end here. What's the ripple effect of this Space X IPO going to be for you? Right? Is that going to be a trickle down?

[Philip Johnson]

Yeah, we're already seeing it. I mean, there's just enormous interest in the Space industry that wasn't there before. So we raised actually the fastest unicorn round coming out of YC ever. So in 17 months, we went from basically zero to $1.1 billion valuation with $170 million raise. I think a lot of that is fueled by people now understanding space, realizing there's a huge market opportunity there. And that's in large part, but because of the SpaceX IPO.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

StarCloud CEO and co founder Philip Johnson, really grateful for your explanation of the technology, but also to hear about what you guys are working on. Come back. Thank you. The challenge of satellites reaching orbit has mainly been solved through reusable launch vehicles, I.e. space X. But one critical bottleneck remains scaled satellite manufacturing. That's partly what Space X needs cash for. Not just Space X startup Apex has just raised more than $200 million as it works to increase production of its satellite platforms for commercial firms and government work, including an involvement in President Trump's Golden Dome missile defense shield. APEC CEO Ian Cinnamon joins us more. Ian, congratulations on the round and thank you for being here. It's interesting what we're doing. We're trying to encompass all of this future economy and the bottleneck of satellite manufacturing. How severe is that bottleneck? Try and quantify it for me.

[Ian Cinnamon]

Satellites have been around for 70 years, right? Satellites themselves are not new. But to your point, Space X has really solved the key part of the space ecosystem, which is how do we deliver the satellites from earth to space. And to give you a sense of how severe the new bottleneck is, which is actually the spacecraft production, the facility that I'm standing in right now, we call IT Apex Factory 1, is capable of producing over 200 satellites per year. That is more satellites than the US government launched last year. And the demand is growing sky high. So for us, we are seeing an enormous shift in the market away from saying, let's launch one large, bespoke, exquisite satellite, and shifting to how do we launch constellations, fleets of satellites that are actually able to work together. And that has led Apex to becoming really that go to spacecraft platform company in the industry.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

And the regular audience of Nova Tech has kind of heard this story before. There's a company in Bulgaria called Enduro Sat, which basically pitches itself as like the TSMC of Bulgaria, but similar contract manufacturer for satellites of third parties. Is that an accurate way to also describe what Apex is is doing right now in the United States?

[Ian Cinnamon]

So Endurance, that is a great company, but fundamentally a different business model from us. So what we do is you could, if you Want to make an analogy here? Right. I would actually say we were the board of satellites. So we go ahead and we say we're going to have a set number of products. A small satellite, a medium one, a large one. Think a sedan, an suv, a pickup truck. We design that upfront. So we're not contract manufacturing someone else's design, it's ours. And we go and produce them in the factory I'm standing in right now ahead of any customer demand. So when somebody says I need 100 satellites or someone like Star Cloud wants to go launch a Constellation, we're able to rapidly supply them in a matter of weeks or months instead of years with a standard off the shelf design.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Let's talk about the money. $200 million raise. You know, what is the priority for you to get scaling here? What is the thing you're acting on most quickly?

[Ian Cinnamon]

Space is expensive, right? Space is full of hardware, it's full of, you know, expensive launches, buying Falcon Nines, buying other launch vehicles and so on. But Apex is in a very fortunate position where we're actually able to operate as a real long term sustainable business. We have now raised 3 back to back $200 million rounds over the last 14 months. And we've raised all of them from a position of strength where we don't actually need the capital, but it's simply a way for us to speed up and actually go faster. So for us that means increased hiring, increased production and more deliveries to our customers for programs like we announced earlier this week with our partnership with Northrop Grumman on space based Interceptors.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Ian, next week Space X will conduct the biggest IPO in history. How is that going to impact impact you in the immediate and also in the future?

[Ian Cinnamon]

It's incredibly synergistic, right? Space X has really opened up the space ecosystem and really paved the way for different customers, whether it be US government, allied nations, commercial customers, to ship their architectures from large, expensive bespoke satellites to fleets of proliferated systems. We supply those proliferated systems. So for us, SpaceX has been a massive tailwind in our favor. That's actually helping the industry move forward at a faster pace. We are a great customer of SpaceX. We have a wonderful relationship with them and we are very excited for their IPO next week.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Ian Cinnamon, Apex CEO, the company raising its latest $200 million found around. Thank you very much indeed. Coming up on the program, we're going to hear from Thinking Machines Labs CEO, the former OpenAI CTO Mira Moradi on what her new startup is trying to achieve that. Conversation from the Bloomberg Tech event coming up next. I have to check back on markets. Look, this is where we're at. There's a lot of red on that screen this Friday. Tech is underperforming and that's probably putting it mildly or lightly. Nasdaq 100 down now almost 3%. The Philadelphia semiconductor index is down 6 and a half percent, its biggest drop since October. There is a lot of chatter out there that while we were kind of due a correction in chips, the index up more than 80% year to date. Anyway. The S&P 500 is snapping as it stands in nine straight weeks of gains run and yields are higher on the eco data. We're going to keep checking that. It's important. This is Bloomberg Tech.

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[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Humans should Stay in the loop for AI, says Thinking Machines Lab CEO and founder Mira Moradi. She spoke at the Bloomberg Tech event last night with Bloomberg's Emily Chang. Listen to this.

[Mira Moradi]

The most advanced AI systems are the most incredible tools for thought that humanity can ever have. And so how can this change the way that we think and where we're still thinking? And it's changing the nature of thought, what we're thinking about. And this part I don't think is actually, this part is familiar to us. You know, since the beginning of time, like technologies have, deep technologies have changed what we think about, like language, writing, numerals. I think this is the opportunity ahead of us, this possibility to expand what we think about and have new tangible things that we think about. And this requires very intentional research work and product work in this direction.

[Bloomberg Tech Announcer]

When I interviewed you, it was early 2023. Chatbots had just changed everything. You were CTO of Open. A few folks I talked to said you basically ran the place saying

[Bloomberg's Shereen Ghafari]

when

[Bloomberg Tech Announcer]

you left and founded Thinking Machines, were you running towards something or away from something?

[Mira Moradi]

I most definitely was running through towards something once I figured out what the thing was. But I had an incredible, I mean I had an incredible experience at OpenAI. I was so incredibly lucky to work with some of the most dedicated and most talented people in the world. And that's, that's incredibly special and I'm very glad, grateful for that experience. And you know, eventually I had my own view of, and very strong view of how I think this technology ought to be developed. And it's very rare to start something from scratch once you have developed such a strong perspective on it. And that's, that's a rare privilege to have. And I think having a company like Thinking Machines gives us an opportunity to focus on where we have the highest conviction and build and orient the entire company around that conviction.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

That was Thinking Machines Lab CEO Miramoradi along with Emily Chang. Software has dominated venture capital for years. But as AI moves beyond on the digital world and into manufacturing, robotics, industrial systems, investors are betting that that next trillion dollar opportunity is wrapping software into the physical world. There's also the small matter of space X's IPO and the ripple effects for builders in and outside of Earth's atmosphere. Joining us now is Nina Shahjan, partner at Index Ventures, an early backer of companies including anthropic but physical intelligence service Titan. And I'm so glad you're here with the thesis. I would just point out there's a lot going on in public markets right now, but Actually, you know, private markets are quite active in physical. I, you know, I was tracking the Data pitchbook, like 2019 to last year. It's going up. What are you saying?

[Bloomberg Tech Announcer]

Yeah, well thanks for having me. It's great to be here. And of course Index and other folks in the Valley have been spending a lot of time investing in the fundamentals of AI which have been really based on lm. So at Index we've done everything from foundation model of anthropic to inference layer fireworks and then a bunch of application companies. But if you take a step back, actually most of the disruption in software has really been around the knowledge worker and that's where a lot of the investment has gone. But there's a big white space which is what does AI do in the physical world? And that's where we've been spending a lot of time.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Yeah. You know, for a really long time in many cycles calls software is eating the world. And now people say, well hardware is eating the world. You're basically saying both, you know, they are joint.

[Bloomberg Tech Announcer]

Yeah, well I think if you look at it, there's all of these functions, electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, aerospace engineers, and for decades they have been using the same software stack. And a lot of these incumbents were built in the 1980s. And there's this huge race, not just the race to get to space, but the race to put better things in the physical world. And unlike some of the things in the digital world, if you get one character wrong in this code, something could actually blow up like a nuclear reactor or a rocket. And so we're really interested in companies that are trying to solve this deeply

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

technical, very domain specific problem, most multimodal, trying to ground the model in real world physics. You know, in the case of robotics, you know, in my study of, of software, you know, the VCs that come on the shows would say we have conviction about this because there's a public market proxy. An example we can point to on how we value this company or the market opportunity for it in humanoid robotics and other physical AI domains. Much harder to do. Is Space X going to be a good proxy for that?

[Bloomberg Tech Announcer]

Well, I think think that's why all eyes are on the Space X ipo. And I think that it's really opened the eyes to folks of just how compelling this market is and how lucrative it could be. And that's drawing a lot of dollars into the private sector in companies that are doing similar things.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Yesterday I was on stage with Trey Stevens from Founders Fund. He made a very simple outline of A thesis on why SpaceX is going to work. Just we'll play the sound bite. We have SpaceX investment in almost every

[Bloomberg's Craig Trudell]

fund, both across our venture funds and our growth funds.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

So there's a ton of exposure for LPs that were with us since the very beginning and even the ones that joined us very recently.

[Bloomberg's Craig Trudell]

I think, you know, the core lesson that everyone has learned from this experience

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

is never bet against Elon. It's just a bad idea. Pretty simple. Don't best bet against Elon Musk. It's a bad idea. I don't know, like how deeply you read the S1 and you and the world that is envisioned for the future or out of this world and how much that gave you conviction in your own thesis.

[Bloomberg Tech Announcer]

Yeah, well, I think the way that we have played it is that Elon is a huge talent attractor. And so actually two of the most recent investments I've made are both in former Space X founders. So one is Scott Morden from revel. He spent 10 years at space X.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

That's right.

[Bloomberg Tech Announcer]

Doing launch control. And his role there, really excitement exposed him to how big of a need there is for better software for hardware, which is why he's now built Revel. And then Sergey Nestarenko, who's the founder of Quilter, spent six years at Space X where he was really frustrated that he had to wait for a human to manually lay out a printed circuit board. Of course, printed circuit boards are really important to everything that's happening in chips. So he started quilter to use AI to autonomously lay out PCBs.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

We just have 30 seconds. You know, I think that we make the point, point that whatever happens with the ipo, it will cause some volatility in public markets one way or another. But from the venture capital industry standpoint, I won't ask you to speak specifically on anthropic. How much do do you guys need some big IPOs to get the world moving?

[Bloomberg Tech Announcer]

Well, I think VC is always rooting for the IPO window to be open. It creates more options for our founders for capital and liquidity. And it's really exciting to see the ones that are lined up for today. And so I think folks will be watching them very closely.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Nina Schajan of Index Venture Partners here in sf really appreciate the thesis on software into physical AI and hardware. That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech Crazy week. This is what markets look like. Look, tech is down. Part of it is eco data. Part of it was coming. Recap the show on the podcast you know where to find it. Really Top conversations From the last 24 hours iHeart, Spotify and on Apple this

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