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Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News. Bloomberg Tech is live from coast to coast with Caroline Hyde in New York and Ed Ludlow in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Tech. Coming up, TSMC posts a strong forecast and results lift peers, a sign that demand related to AI remains robust. This is Open Air focuses on its infrastructure, striking a deal with Cerebras for compute and hunting for hardware partners across data centers and consumer devices. And the mayor of New York City is suing a delivery tech company, accusing it of breaking local worker protection laws. We'll get into that in a moment, but first we check in on where the markets are and actually we're managing to rally in the NASDAQ 100 after two days of losses. It's all about that TSMC headline that you were just discussing, Ed, and the rejuvenation and maybe wading back into these key names. Nvidia indeed. One of the key points rides is higher Bitcoin, though not feeling much of the love. There's also a delay to a key Senate markup on the market structure bill. So that's putting some pressure on the ecosystem more generally. But watch for crypto. But you're looking at tsmc. Yeah, the world's most important chip contract manufacturer, telling us capital expenditures up to 56 billion this year. Top line growth 30%. Two markers that the demand is intact. But ASML, the most important chip, equipment making, machine making, name first European company in a long time to breach $500 billion of market value. Shares trading at a record high. Why? Because TSMC is the number one buyer of its gear. There's a lot to get into. Let's get to it with Bloomberg's Peter Elstrom out in London. This TSMC forecast, it's big. It's big for markets, it's big for the industry, it's big for AI. Very interesting though to listen to CC Way give a note of caution on how deploying that capital carefully is important. Yeah, that's right. The earnings report from TSMC was very, very strong. As you said, they forecast that revenue is going to be up close to 30% this year. As you mentioned, they're boosting their CapEx outlook too. It's going up more than 35% at the high end of that range, up to $56 billion. As you say, that's from $40.9 billion last year. So it's a big boost. It's very clear who's going to benefit from this. As you mentioned, ASML is one of the big benefic. Its shares were up to a record today. Applied Materials up today to a record. KLA is also up to a record. So you see that these chip equipment makers are definitely benefiting from this. But as you suggested, CC Way in the call afterwards was not exuberant about this. He was not reassuring in all respects about the trade. Somebody asked him directly, do you think that we're in a bubble at this point? And he said, yes, you're asking us whether the demand is real. So beyond the capital spending is demand on the other side. He said, I'm very nervous about this. He said, we're investing 52 to 56 billion dollars. If we don't do it Carefully. There could be a big disaster for tsmc. Just to be clear, TSMC is the one that's spending tens of billions of dollars for these new fabs that are going to come online two or three years down the line. Nvidia is not doing that. Nvidia is just buying chips from them, as is Apple, and makes its chips via tsmc, one of its biggest revenue drivers and is also trying to steer us as to where the memory story goes as well. Peter, how did you hear about whether or not that's going? High end phones at least you touch on a very important point. There has been a shortage of memory chips, especially for some of these consumer electronics, smartphones and the like. That's partly because there's so much demand for the AI to pair the memory chips with AI that that's squeezing up a lot of the capacity that's out there from Samsung and sk, Hynix and Micron in particular. So that's driving up prices. CC was asked about that. He said that he thinks it's going to be manageable going forward. That is a big issue though, especially for smartphones and consumer electronics. Peter, Elite Edge chip Fab is a fixed cost, 15 to 25 billion dollars. It takes several years to come online and you can't know what the demand will be when it does come online. Right. No one has a crystal ball, but a part of this is geopolitics. TSMC is at the heart of trade talks between the US And Taiwan and is under pressure to put more capacity in this country, the United States. You're touching on a very important point. Maybe. Let's start with the company challenge here. Historically, TSMC has done all of its important manufacturing in Taiwan. It's easier. It's a very contained location where their engineers can share intelligence across the country, across the island. And now they're trying to also build in the United States and they're building more and more fab. So right now the US and Taiwanese officials are talking about a trade deal that would lower some of the tariffs for Taiwanese goods going into the United States. And as part of that deal, we understand that TSMC will probably step up its investments in the United States. They're talking about adding four or five fabs on top of the existing ones that they already plan to build. So TSMC has said we don't want to do our most cutting edge chips in the United States, but they are increasing capacity there. That will be part of this deal. We anticipate that could come, could come out publicly over the next week or so. Bloomberg's Peter Elstrom, thanks so much for the breakdown. Let's turn our attention to New York City mayor now. Sorry Mandani. He's keeping his promise on focusing on better working conditions and pay for food delivery drivers. Now the city is accusing DoorDash and Uber of depriving workers of more than $550 million in tips due to changes in their apps. But NYC is even looking to shut down a company called Moto Click behind the scenes delivery tech company that works with these big platforms, accusing it of breaking local worker protection laws. Nox Miles Miller has the latest and Moto Click is the focus for you. What's it been up to? Yeah, according to the mayor's office, Moto Click has not been paying the required minimum wage rate and has been deducting canceled and refund orders directly from these workers paycheck. The city filing a lawsuit in a state supreme court here in New York City and say that these practices left some of these couriers owing money to the company and they say that they will work with Uber and Grubhub and DoorDash. What is central here is that this is the new focus of the new mayor primarily focus on the gig economy and food and delivery tech and really making sure that these new laws that protect these workers, whether it be wages, whether it be other fairness issues, are top of mind and front and center. That is what he is announcing today and he is putting the onus on these companies doing really an education campaign to make sure that these companies know how they should protect their workers. What we know is that this company in particular Motorcycle, integrates their point of service program, point of sale programs to generate orders from photographs of receipts, really the last mile of that delivery until it gets to your home. We know that this is really a focus of the mayor's office because he's appointed a former head of the enforcement division of the FTC as well as Julie Su, the former Labor Commissioner and he's been Labor Secretary for President Biden and he's also getting a lot of advice from Lina Khan, of course ran the FTC and was very critical of fees and more importantly the fees of these kind of companies and what they did. Limo Miller, Miles Miller, thank you very much. And Caro, you know, you and I have reflected on this story in the last couple of days that the main thing the audience needs to know is that come January 26, in that state or city at least there is new laws. It's codified the set of rules that protect the issue that Mars has just been outlining. Yeah, Motorclick is one issue and quite a significant step that even a city would look to shut a company down. But also what's been being reported on is the fact that Doordash and Uber made changes to their own apps. And when you pay a tip, many would say it's rational to pay the tip after the service. But it's meant that those tips have come way down for some of these drivers and they're being accused of costing drivers about $550 million in tips is something that they're going to have to navigate and narrate. As the story continues, we asked what would New York's new mayor do with the tech industry. This is a sort of early play of what his intentions are now. Coming up on Bloomberg tech, OpenAI ramps up its real world ambitions looking to shore up US Hardware supply chains for future devices. We have more on that next. This is Bloomberg Tech. OpenAI well, it's looking to bolster its US hardware supply chain. Its company looks to find partners for its push into consumer devices, into robotics, and also of course, into data centers. And the ChatGPT maker has put out requests for proposals from various component companies in the United States. New Mexico figment. It covers OpenAI joining into some more. This is about a local supply chain, but this is all about signaling where the future revenue is going to be coming from for the company. Right. It's true. Some of this is in keeping with the data center expansion that we've of course talked about before. But the idea of getting into robotics and supply chains for that is a little bit of a new development here. We know that OpenAI has made some key hires on the robotics front. They haven't really said too much about it in recent months. And this is the first real signal in a while that they're serious about it and serious about focusing on manufacturing for it in the US Now I will say what's interesting is there's the hardware element of it, but also they're focusing a lot on the software and building the brains behind these AI robots. Are we looking for clues, Seth, of what a consumer facing device looks like from OpenAI? What form factor is as far as I can tell, we still a little bit in the dark there? I think we are. And to be honest, it feels like opening. I might also still be a little bit in the dark here. I mean, the last remarks that we heard from Johnny Ives and Snap, his company was acquired by them, is that there's a dozen or more different design possibilities here for it, and he's almost overwhelmed by the different possibilities here. But it seems like it might be a subtle device and I think most folks are expecting something in the next year. Bloomberg. Seth Figgman, who's our editor leading the team there, thank you so much. Stay with OpenAI. The company has signed a multi year hardware deal with Cerebras giving OpenAI access to 750 megawatts of computing power. According to sources, the agreement is valued at more than $10 billion and would expand OpenAI's efforts in AI infrastructure build out. Let's get to Bloomberg Senior Tech Editor Mike Shepherd. Mike, what do we need to know? Well, this is just the latest massive data center deal that Open Air has inked over the past year. Early in 2025, we saw them sign a 10 gigawatt deal with India valued at roughly $100 billion and a second 6 gigawatt deal with AMD. So this is just another instance of them looking for more hardware suppliers. And it's just another sign that the demand for infrastructure is still there, especially on the hyperscaler side. For Cerberus, this is a big moment. This is the deal that the CEO Andrew Feldman, who has been on this program before, says will launch the company into the big leagues. They say that their technology runs as quickly as and more efficiently than in videos and they are really trying to challenge the market leader in this space for AI chips and AI hardware. And what they are looking to do now is perhaps expand on that. And the company is also in talks for a capital raise of as much as $1 billion that would take their total valuation to $22 billion. Now, this deal is not complete on the raise, but it certainly is drawing more attention to a company that is trying to establish itself as a real market competitor to AMD and Nvidia in this area of AI chips. Bloomberg's Mike shepherd, thank you very much. There's many more news stories out there today in the world of tech car, there are. It's time now for talking tech. At first up, Alibaba is looking to unify its various services in its AI app, Quinn. The company is looking to connect the likes of Taobao, Alipay, Fliggy to the Quinn app, offering users just one single platform to shop, to book, travel, to pay for services with the help of AI plus Amazon. While it's challenging Sachs's Chapter 11 filing claiming the luxury retailer breached a deal tied to selling Saks products on Amazon and that its equity stake is now presumptively worthless Sachs is seeking court approval to access as much as $1.75 billion in financing to pay vendors payroll and other expenses. And Elon Musk's X AI when it's disabled the ability for users to generate sexualized images of real people using its CROC AI chatbot in a post on X and the company says it has, quote, zero tolerance for any forms of child sexual exploitation, non consensual nudity and unwanted sexual content. The changes apply to all users on X when using Grok and they include premium subscribers and okay, Coming up, A grid operator cuts its power demand Foreclosure cast offering a reality check to the AI boom that Conversations Next this is Bloomberg Tech. Every day millions of customers engage with AI agents like me. We work round the clock and have the facts at our fingertips. We're fast and effective, but incredibly patient. And we're built on Sierra, the leading AI powered customer experience platform. No hold music, just answers and action. Visit Sierra AI to learn more. That's Sierra AI. Support for the show comes from public. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com market and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com market paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation. Complete Disclosures available at public.comDisclosures As a contractor, I don't pay for materials I don't use, so why would I pay for stuff I don't need in my mobile plan? That's why my biz plan from Verizon Business is so perfect. Now I can choose exactly what I want and I only pay for what I need right now with my biz plan. Get our best price as low as $25 a line. Visit verizon.combusiness to get started today New lines only. Price per month with five plus lines includes auto pay and paper free billing and promotional discounts Taxes, fees, economic adjustment charge applicable Add ons prices and terms apply Guarantee applies to base monthly rate and stated discounts only. Add on prices Additional offers in 3-31-2026, The biggest grid operator in the U.S. pJM Interconnection cut its power demand forecast for summer 2027 by more than 2% to about 160 gigawatts. That may seem surprising prizing given that big cloud providers and AI firms keep talking up their need for electricity. And even more so when you consider that PGA manages the region which includes datacenter heavy Northern Virginia. So what does all this mean? Let's bring in Mehdi Pariah, CEO of the Washington D.C. based International Data Center Authority, a think tank, but also global advisor on data centers. This data set is really important throughout industry. A lot of people have said keep watching it, but what it indicates is that there is a big difference, right Medi, between those projects announced on datacenter capacity and those that are actually being built and those that are actually utilizing electricity, not just contracted for it. What do you make of it? Yeah, yes, we see this happening all the time. The what's, what's announced is usually very different from what's actually planned and deployed. So reports need to rely on planned projections, not announced projections. And you know this, this report doesn't really relate to the actual reality of the data industry for simple reasons. First of all, you know the, the 164 gigawatts deviation to 160 gigawatt is just 2.4% drop. And the way power companies work, they, they try to double the projected average and this is not a significant drop in terms of power production. However, the fact that the data center industry is actually growing, not by any ways diminishing, is because of the fact that data centers are not just bottlenecked by power, but also by water, by connectivity, by human capital, by policy, taxation, and so many other reasons. That's why, for example workforce. There's simply not enough people out there to run data centers. But the most important reasons that this report could be misleading is two reasons. First, chip maturity. Because chips are evolving so fast that it became so difficult for data center owners and operators to build data centers fast enough that before they become obsolete, it usually takes 24 months to build a data center. And chips were changing monthly, on a monthly basis, practically. But in 2026, we're predicting that a lot of maturity and clarity. Ready? Yes. How valuable Is this data? Right? Because what PGM does is tell us their forecast for the next five years. Summertime peak demand, wintertime peak demand. And then they tell us that by 2035 they expect that that demand forecast to keep growing. That's quite a long time horizon. Yeah, but, but one of the main reasons that I don't find this report too relevant is because it's totally ignoring on site power generation. Because, because of the slow development of the power companies under them, meeting the demand needs of the days of the owners operators, a lot of these companies are reverting to on site power generation. If you want to grab a gas turbine, you can't find anything in the market today. Everything is backlogged. So a lot of people are reverting to onsite power generation, whether it's gas, solar, other means, hydro and including as a Mars, you know this, this report totally dismisses the fact that a lot of these other industries relying on site power generation and not on the grid. And that's why you really can't depend on the world. Many I've seen Caterpillar stock go way high because people have been trying to bring on local power generation in this way. But you know, Mars, they're not really out there in the field yet. I mean that's something that we factor in at least in five years time, right? Yeah, I mean the maturity process, you know, governance, everything outside of the country. Nuclear is becoming very popular. United Arab Emirates for example is a, is a nuclear country. They're building data centers at gigawatt capacities. So when you look at the world map, nuclear in general is becoming the solution to go to for data centers and some hours for outside power generation of the way to go. But in the meantime there's a transitional fuel which is natural gas which everybody is relying on and that is totally being, you know, dismissed in most findings and most reports. So the projections of power companies trying to provide electricity on the grid doesn't really reflect the reality of the data center industry growth. We're going from 60 gigawatts to 300 gigawatt capacity in just five years. And that's not, that's not even a very optimistic explanation of the market. It's a very conservative projection because looking at the company like Nvidia where chips and the development of AI is totally blocked and bottlenecked by the development of speed of growth growth of data centers, you will see that there is no other option where companies like Nvidia are hunting for data center power so that they can sell more Chips many. Can I get this straight then you think that ultimately this power provider is underestimating how much power we're going to be needing in five years time? Definitely. It's totally underestimated. So what does that mean for the consumer? You are someone who goes around and advises government worldwide about what to do in terms of getting their data centers online. What does that mean in terms of power prices for the everyday consumer? The only way countries can keep up with this is either you need to stop technology from growth which is not possible, or every day is touched by data centers and AI and the evolution of technology. This interview wouldn't be possible. The flights, everything around us is only possible through technology and ultimately through data. So you cannot stop that. What you need to do at the national level, government level, you need to make sure that you're provisioning enough power to your people, to your citizens as you don't burden your citizens by the cost of electricity. By making sure that you're not just sitting around letting the market drive things, you need to make sure that you are always ahead of the Ghana unfortunately governments aren't as informed as they should be. So that's a major task for us when we advise governments. Mary Paravi, we thank you for your time. CEO of International Datacenter Authority. A pretty busy man right now. Let's stick with ultimately that story about power grids by PJM about that outlook for the forecast and bring in Bloomberg's Noreen Malik who's been writing up all about this for the unwell, unbathed in deep knowledge of power and how it works here in the United States is a hunt. Is the outlook of 160 the right one do you think? How do they come to these sorts of numbers? Yeah, just to quickly put context, power demand has been so like flat in PJM that they still haven't touched the all time record that was hit in 2006 which is 165 gigawatts and they won't get there until 2028. So this pullback now for next year for of about nearly 4 gigawatts, that's a lot. That's four nuclear reactors worth of power, power supply. And so I think what PJM is trying to do, this is an industry that is overwhelmed with so many requests to build power plant data centers that can consume as much power as cities. This is all being passed on to consumers. So they're trying to find out what's actually happening and on what timeline and this is specifically for next year, but then. And that will affect consumers prices because they had a shortfall of nearly 6 gigawatts in the capacity auction. So now that shortfall is smaller. So it has direct costs in consumers. I think longer term what you're hearing is right, like those numbers are going to change a lot. We might see a hockey stick type of momentum here. Right. Norm, real quick, the reason that this data kind of piques the interest is that PGM goes back and only includes projects that will take some load that they think are actually going to be real and be built results. Just explain the methodology they use. Yeah, this is actually a new methodology. They have historically not had that much insight into what's happening on the demand side. They usually look at power generation but this demand is coming so fast that they went back and with the work with, while working with utilities looked at which projects have like engineering contracts, construction contracts and electricity service contracts. So these are more real. That's not to say you can, you can't see more, but you are seeing also a huge scramble to build on site generation. Bloomberg's Noreen Malik, great reporting. Thank you very much. Coming up, hardware makers Apple, hp, others feeling the pain of the memory crunch. That's next. Rising memory prices are starting to make investors nervous, especially when it comes to hardware makers that rely heavily on those components. You can see it in the stocks. Shares of Apple and HP have been under pressure this year. Apple down more than 4% so far in 26hp down more than 6%. Bloomberg equities reporter Ryan Vasilik has been writing about exactly that. The situation is right. Severe, severe demand for memory storage and high bandwidth in the data center is making tight supply for everyone else, shooting prices up. But now we're seeing it in the equities, those names that rely on it most. What do we need to know? Hey, good morning. Thanks for having me. So we've been talking a lot about how strong the memory and storage companies have been, especially this year and in recent months. Sandisk, Western Digital, Seagate, Micron. The flip side of that is those other customers for those companies like you said, hp, Dell, to a certain extent, all these companies that may consumer hardware, they are seeing this in the form of higher memory prices which is having an impact on their margins on their cost of goods. It's really become something of a major concern for these companies. HP being probably the most prominent example there is a lot of concern about what is this going to mean for their ability to have favorable prices for PCs? What will raising prices do to demand? What will keeping prices steady Due to margins. A lot of concerns there because memory is a pretty big component for building out PCs and smartphones, products like that. What's interesting is we tie it back to TSMC results and we hear from the CEO who sort of guided us to the idea that the memory chip price increases actually aren't going to affect perhaps Apple so much that big customer because they send the high end phones. But really it's an HP and a Dell story. Is it because they've got less of a margin to be able to take a hit, they have to pass it on to the consumer? Yeah, absolutely. So a lot of these companies have like supply agreements that are probably going to last for the first half of 2026 or so. After that, this equation is going to get a lot tougher. A lot of the rise in these memory prices has occurred over the past several months. So it is something people are worried about, especially as you look into the second half of 2026. I know we just started, but people are already looking there, really looking at what is this going to mean for their margins and how should we consider them on a valuation basis. If you have this suddenly new increased cost in the form of higher memory chips. There is an upside for someone and that is the memory names themselves. We were just cycling through the charts, right, on a one year basis, some of those memory names are up hundreds of percent, some of them more than 1000%. This has changed the forecast fortunes and also I guess the reputation of some of the names like Sandisk, Western Digital, Seagate, Ryan. Yeah, absolutely. So historically a lot of these companies traded at much lower multiples because they had a pretty shorter cycle in far as their boom and bust cycle go. So you would see something like a PC refresh cycle or an iPhone or smartphone upgrade cycle and you would see a little bit of a boost in the memory prices and then you'd see it fall back again and you'd see the stock sort of reacting to along that sort of cadence. But now you have these new customers, all these hyperscalers, all of this money that's being spent on AI that has really changed the kind of equation, the kind of cycle that these companies are operating under. So you've really seen just so much growth coming out of these companies and really so far it doesn't seem like it's going to stop anytime soon. Seems like memory prices are continuing to be biased upwards and that just has people being very optimistic about their prospects from here. Especially since a lot of these companies continue to trade at a discount to Your in videos of the world and so forth. Always with some of the most read stories. Thank you very much. Let's get a market analysis now. In fact, Oscar Deshkai is with our senior analyst over at Swissquote. And what's really interesting, you've been thinking about some of these bottlenecks and we think memory is one. We've been thinking about how infrastructure is one of them as well. But thinking about how power is to impact. How are investors trying to play this? Are they still worried about an AI bubble? Are they still all in on the areas that still are in demand? Well, there are now bottlenecks are trying to pop as you say. One is energy memory chips. We also have a heavy rise in metal prices, especially copper prices that are pressuring input prices higher. And these pressure and input crisis started to worry investors in many segments. Not all segments are concerned, but many segments except especially hallway companies and data centers are now feeling the pinch of higher input costs and eventually higher energy prices as well. And one of the other problems is obviously the trade tensions, potential shock to supply chains and all of that is just playing quite negatively into this optimistic AI narrative that we had seen over the past three years. And then comes tsmc that sort of ease a lot of that anxiety saying that demand, we see it, sure, we're cautious, but we see it and we build. What does that mean about the ultimate story? How much did optimism get breathed back? Well, it did. TSMC beat estimates. That was not a surprise. That's just another quarter of very strong results from tsmc. And they say that the demand and I remain strong and they're building more data and more and more chip plans. Excuse me. And that also justifies CSMC is building chip plants outside the United States, in Japan, in Europe and obviously in the US as well. So the demand remains strong. But building these chip plants and building the data centers requires confidence. And the confidence the supply of companies is unfortunately not infinite. Infinite. So that is going to be a bottleneck and that's going to be a capacity constraint that could eventually become a headache for the sector and the growth expectations. If I showed you a long term chart of memory spot pricing, it would be for a number of years basically steady. Only because of the severity and the surge in the last month at this juncture do we need to start talking about the impact of memory. You mentioned energy as well on inflation and have a more economic discussion about what this shock, this bottleneck is causing. Well, obviously there are now rising worries about the fact that all of these demand and resources being limited is going to start pushing prices higher for the memory chips. We are talking about very big numbers. I mean 30% rise only last quarter according to Samsung's report earlier this month. And as Ryan also said, I mean this is a very important component component of hardware companies and it will eventually start pressuring their, their profit margins and leads to price pressures. Now the question is how much of these costs, of these additional costs will be pushed onto the end customers. The reality is that we do not know but the higher the demand, the higher the prices will going to be going up and the higher the pressure will be on the profit margins there. The competition, competition is going to be important. The higher the competition or the bigger the, the impact on profit margins and these companies will not be able to push the prices too high because well then there will be, there will be implications on the demand side. The memory bottleneck. Is that going to be the talking point of this technology earnings season? Well, yes, I think that is going to be one of the major talking points along with energy and the metal prices as well. Well, all of these input prices are rising. The other thing that we will be really watching very closely in this earnings season is the obviously the headline numbers, but not only we will be also looking very closely into how the revenues are being booked and how the loans are also being booked in order to not let the technology companies build this narrative but also try to dig into the risk that could be underlying. We thank you Oscar Deshka, great to have you. From Swiss quote. I mean we're talking about energy, we're talking about power. And we have some breaking news at the moment, all regarding the offshore wind ban that Trump had imposed. It's been blocked for a second time in the US Court. So Equinor has won a ruling to resume a US Wind project that had been halted by President Trump. So Ed, this all fits into the context of power, the need for it, but also the clampdown on certain green projects from the current administration. Okay. Coming up, four astronauts landed safely back on Earth last night in NASA's first ever medical evacuation. But it comes to space. President Trump is more focused on defense. We have the latest on that next this is Bloomberg Tech. Support for the show comes from public on public. You can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated Assets are completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com market and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. 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One reason the US has stressed its need to take over Greenland is for the Golden Dome air and missile defense system. Let's talk about that. The technical difficulties, the challenges, the operations. Laura Crabtree, Co founder, CEO of Epsilon 3, a provider of Resource management software for the space industry. And really you've done such a deep dive on how technically difficult Golden Dome will be to execute from a partner perspective. Talk us through it, Laura. Yeah, so the biggest challenge, I think is not necessarily going to be just the technology. It's going to be the cooperation between the government and the commercial partners that are providing solutions to the government. And that is everything from the technology, the acquisition of programs, the operations of those programs, and then everything in between. And so I think not only the cost is a little bit of a risk, but also the risk of the number of people that need to be involved in Golden Dome and the number of things that need to go correctly for the Golden Dome to be a successful program. I mean, aside from the fact of the geopolitics of it all, as Secretary Hegseth has been saying, that Greenland is vital to us plans to build the Golden Dome missile defense shield in particular, I'm, I'm interested in ultimately whether you think it will get pulled off and in what succession. How is your software? How, how are people thinking about aligning partners? Yeah, the one thing that I keep going back to is the demonstration of the commercial partnership in companies like Space X, the coordination with NASA, the coordination with all of the different partnerships that Space X has formed over the lifecycle of the company, and all the partnerships that are going to need to come from the Golden Dome. So I think looking at that and the technological challenges for that and the communication and coordination, we've taken a look at how much we need to be able to provide our commercial partners, to be able to work in concert with the government partnerships that they are forming in the future and right now so that we can make sure that it is as successful as it can be at this stage. Laurie, in a Golden Dome is, is an idea, a proposal, a plan for missile defense. But increasingly the focus of the administration, as we discussed at the top, is space as either a war fighting domain or a critical domain to defense. You know, leveraging your experience at Space X. But currently, what's your assessment of how this administration is going about that as a priority? Well, I think from the discussions I've had, the priority is on acquisition, letting the commercial partners develop technology and then having the government acquire it. I think there's still some work to be done on acquisition of programs, acquisition of technologies, and then how the partnership actually works between them. And then I think there's probably some financial discussions that also need to be worked out a little bit. But there. Yeah, you're right. It is still in development. So I think a lot of those things are in discussion. And I'm very hopeful that some of the roadblocks that we've seen in the past to government acquisition will be removed going forward. I've got to ask you about a first ISS medical evacuation. No, Space X at the heart of it, but NASA moved incredibly quickly. Again, reflecting on your time in industry, what you made of it, and you know, we say on this program a lot the ability to put humans into orbit and return them from ISS is now routine through Space X. Is that more evidence of that? It absolutely, absolutely is. And the partnership that was formed when I started at space X in 2009, it didn't, it didn't start as it is right now. There were still open questions on whether or not Space X was going to come to the table with real hardware, with real operational mindset. And we did prove to NASA that we were there to basically run a successful program. And over the course of the number of years that we've been working with them, we've really built a level of trust with NASA such that they can move quickly, they can make decisions quickly. And I think part of that is the underlying software and infrastructure and decision making that has been sort of part of the program from the beginning. And that has enabled, enable them to move quickly and deorbit a crew in a very short period of time. Something that is not easy. The technology is there. Clearly we have returned many humans from space at this point. However, the decision usually is multiple weeks, months. And you know, if you have six months of planning, you know what the weather is going to be, you know exactly who does what, you know, the stowage, you know, everything. But in order to move quickly, you need to have all of that very well planned out. And I think that it is a really nice thing to see the, the, the movement in that. And now You've built Epsilon 3 and now your customers are not just NASA itself, but other rival space companies. There's a worry that Space X is too dominant. Would you say it is? I would not say it is. I would say that we need companies like Space X to have a lot of success, to show the market how impactful a very, very large and successful space company can be. And it's also enabling a lot of other companies to get to space quickly and effectively and also at a, at a cost that is much lower than previous. So it's actually enabling the rest of the space economy. And I'm really glad to see it. It's something that I wanted to be a part of from the beginning of my journey in this industry. Laura Crabtree, CEO and co founder of Epsilon 3. Thank you very much. Crucial to both space and defense tech, rare earths. And on Wednesday, President Trump signed a proclamation aimed at securing US access to critical minerals. The move to reduce China's dominance in the supply chain has spurred investors to pour money into the startups and companies in the sector, some of which are focused on the green energy transition. Joining us is Bloomberg Climate Tech editor Brian Kahn. Gives some hope. What the President wants to do is cut into China's dominance, but actually there's, there's a whole industry, a lifeline being provided to green tech. Yeah, that's right. It's definitely, I would say that President Trump is nicely focused on green tech, but there is very much a knock on side effect. Yeah, a side effect. Yeah. And you know, for the green tech industry at this point, they'll take it. There's a lot of pushback. You know, we just heard earlier about the offshore wind back and forth. But you know, there are some wins that are happening and when it comes to rare earths, that is one of those wins we've seen by the President putting sort of the weight of the federal government behind it and pushing for this onshoring of the supply chain. We've seen a major investment from the private sector, including a record set last year of nearly $630 million. But I think it's worth just going back big picture because rare earths, extracting them is an incredibly messy and climate impactful affair. So is that why green energy gets a lifeline? How and what types of companies do well out of this? I mean the companies that are going to get a lifeline out of this are, you know, for just one example, EVs. If you look at the rare earth, you know who's using Rare Earths. But 22% of all use last year was through EVs, bikes, you know, E Mobility, essentially. So those are the kind of companies that can really benefit from seeing a more diverse supply chain. You know, in addition to that, there are other parts of the tech industry writ large that use them as well as defense. But I'd say like when you're looking at where are the biggest gains that could be made, it's going to be E Mobility that could see the biggest boost from Seymour. Rare earth production, the national security element, clearly important. Brian, sorry if this is a dumb question, but where is the President going to find these rare earths if he's not going to get them from China? Well, there are a number of ways to kind of get them in. Some of the interesting ways that we're seeing some of these companies in the US work is actually looking at mining waste. So there's a company called Phoenix Tailings. Their big thing is taking mining waste from other processes and basically sort of digging out, essentially maybe a little more fancy than digging out, but they're essentially getting the rare earths that are hidden in there out of that mining waste and processes processing it. And they've just opened up a plant in New Hampshire actually last year. You know, they're producing a pretty small amount at this point. It's about 200 tons annually. That's a very small fraction of the 620,000 tons that China produces. But it shows that there are going to be some unique ways to get into the supply chain beyond just mining them out of the ground. Brian Kahn, fascinating. Thanks for joining us. We appreciate it. Now, coming up, good Oracle making a big bet on Nashville. The workers don't seem to be keen on locating in the company's new global headquarters. On that next this Bloomberg Tech. Oracle may be an attractive bet for investors, but the company is struggling to lure workers to its new global headquarters in Nashville, Tennessee. Blue Most Brady for has been covering Oracle's efforts. And what's interesting is, you know, go back a couple of years and Larry OSM was positioning. This is like this is going to be world 8 HQ. They want people, they're hiring there, there are postings. But actually behind Missouri and California, that's actually pretty low down the total workforce table. What are they pitching here? Right. If you're sitting in California or Seattle, which is where a lot of experience, cloud infrastructure people sit, and you hear, let's move to Nashville. Maybe you love country music and you're stoked, but in a lot of cases that we're hearing, they say, well, you know, there's not a whole lot of industry out there. What if I move out there and I get laid off? You know, so this is one of these tales of the tech industry wanting to become more distributed across the US Lower cost of living, lower taxes. But, you know, your talented workforce is still clustering in these west coast hubs. You've been speaking to local officials over in Nashville. They still seem pretty upbeat. Yeah, I mean, they're excited, right? You hear one of the most important tech companies, companies wants to bring 8,000 workers and develop a new campus. That's great news for local economic development. Just the question will be how long does it take to attract all of these people? What does it look like? And does it bring these network effects? I mean, the campus is on track, they are developing it. It's just a question of hiring at this point. Nashville is a good time. I can attest to that at a minimum. But what you were saying about, you know, industry and footprint, this is something that's happening with Austin, Texas, right? There is actually more of an industry footprint there. What about leadership? Where's Larry Ellison currently basing himself and spending his time? Well, that's what's so interesting about the HQ designation, right? I mean, Larry Ellison spends most of his time in Hawaii or Florida. Old CEO Safra Katz did as well. What gives national some real credibility though, is that their new co CEO, Clay McGuire, he sits there in Nashville. Right. So if you want to cozy up to the boss, you might say I'm putting on the cowboy hat. Brody Ford. You would skip a cowboy hat. That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech. It's great to see Brody out there in San Francisco with you, right? Yeah, it's great to have him here. He's really owned this beat. Not just of infrastructure, but software as well. I've got a lot of things in my head about memory, memory chips, memory process, pricing. Recap our discussion on that from the show through the podcast. 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