Wall Street CEOs Summoned to Discuss Anthropic AI Risks

Summary

Bloomberg Tech Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Wall Street CEOs Summoned to Discuss Anthropic AI Risks
Air Date: April 10, 2026
Hosts: Caroline Hyde (New York), Ed Ludlow (San Francisco)

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Overview

This episode centers on Wall Street's urgent response to the cyber risks posed by Anthropic's new Mythos AI model. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant and Fed Chair Jerome Powell called an off-agenda meeting with major bank CEOs to discuss the potential vulnerabilities emerging as advanced models roll out. The show also covered Anthropic's major infrastructure deals, the ongoing hardware/software market divergence, implications for global tech markets, and highlighted the Artemis 2 moon mission's historic achievements.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Urgent Wall Street Meeting Over Anthropic AI Risks

• Context: Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant and Fed Chair Powell held a confidential meeting with major bank CEOs (including Citi, Goldman Sachs, but notably not Jamie Dimon of JPMorgan) to address cyber threats from Anthropic’s Mythos model.
• Early-stage Concerns: The meeting was characterized as precautionary, focusing on awareness, preparation, and strategies for banks to safeguard consumer data.
• Insider Perspective:

  “The hush hush nature, it really was not meant to be something that was broadcast.”
  – Catherine Doherty, Bloomberg Banking and Finance Reporter [03:22]

• Guardrails & Stress Testing: Anthropic gave limited partners (including JP Morgan, Citi, Goldman) access to Mythos for advanced stress testing and feedback, echoing similar moves by OpenAI.

2. Anthropic’s Compute Demands and CoreWeave’s Big Deal

• Anthropic’s Limited Rollout: Mythos is being rolled out slowly, likely due to compute constraints. Only ~40 partners have access.
• New Infrastructure Deal: CoreWeave’s stock soared after landing a multi-year, multi-billion dollar deal to provide Anthropic with data center capacity, following their massive $21B deal with Meta.
• Market Analyst Perspective:
  Brent Thill (Jefferies) characterized CoreWeave as the “luxury AI builder to the stars,” highlighting their robust backlog ($90B) and industry positioning.

  “None of these companies can build the infrastructure on their own...there's not enough compute.”
  – Brent Thill [07:44]

3. The AI Infrastructure Crunch

• Demand Exceeds Supply: Both Anthropic and OpenAI face significant compute bottlenecks, fueling the need for infrastructure providers and contributing to the hardware rally.
• Energy & Geography: Compute siting is dictated by energy prices – with reporting of OpenAI curtailing UK data center ambitions (Stargate) due to soaring costs.
• Industry Macro:

  “If you believe the CEO of SoftBank that we're going to have half a trillion dollar data centers for AI...we're really, really early in the build out.”
  – Brent Thill [11:24]

4. CoreWeave CEO’s Perspective

• Capital Strategy: CEO Michael Trader details creative funding via bonds and convertible notes, leveraging blue-chip contracts to secure cheap capital.
• Land-and-Expand Model: Each client contract is a launchpad for further expansion within that customer.
• Volume & Quality:

  “We just think it's an incredible vote of confidence from one of the most important labs in the world...it's going to be a launchpad for additional business.”
  – Michael Trader [31:38]

• Compute Constraints: Declines to comment on contract size but confirms Anthropic’s urgent need for high-quality infrastructure.
• Resilience: CoreWeave is committed to continued expansion in the UK despite energy cost volatility.

5. Global Tech Market Dynamics

• Hardware vs. Software: Hardware stocks (TSMC, CoreWeave) surge amid demand for AI infrastructure, while software stocks (including defense AI like Palantir) lag due to perceived disruption risks.
• Asia Perspective: TSMC’s strong results dispel fears of Middle East conflict impacting chip and gadget demand.
• Investor Sentiment:

  “Right now, it's all about AI, infrastructure, energy, air space and connectivity, but geopolitics will be a huge overhang.”
  – Sylvia Jonaski, Defiance ETFs [16:56]

6. AI Impact on Warfare

• Defense ETF Trends: Increased interest in "JEDI" ETF (defense/AI/drone/space stocks) reflecting AI’s crucial role in modern warfare.
• Nature of Conflict Changing:

  “War has changed... It's perhaps not as much about the $200 million missile, but the 2,000 drones that you can send over for, you know, hundreds and thousands of dollars.”
  – Sylvia Jonaski [20:21]

7. Historic Artemis 2 Moon Mission

• Splashdown Anticipation: Crew of Artemis 2 returns from record-setting lunar journey, testing improved heat shield tech after prior issues.
• Space Industry Implications:

  “Can you imagine how small that Apollo capsule was... They hit the top of the atmosphere going 25,000 miles an hour and over the course of 13 minutes slow down to about 20.”
  – Laurie Leshen, Professor of Space Futures, ASU [41:58]

• STEM Inspiration: Mission hailed as a global inspiration, compared to Apollo for its impact on a new generation.

8. Labor & Regulatory News

• Apple Store Closure: Apple closes its first unionized U.S. retail store, sparking allegations of union-busting.
• Industry Impact:

  “This upends one of the few footholds that organized labor had at Apple, and it could have a chilling effect on organizing elsewhere.”
  – Josh Adelson, Bloomberg Labor Reporter [49:03]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On AI Risk Preparedness:

  “If you identify and then the tech gets around it...those are the main concerns that are being brought up for these systemically important financial companies.”
  – Catherine Doherty [06:02]

• On Infrastructure Demand:

  “Microsoft said...they don't have enough physical buildings to put the compute in. Everyone is saying this: there's not enough compute.”
  – Brent Thill [07:44]

• On Hardware/Software Market Split:

  “Semis are going straight up and software is going straight down because CapEx continues to explode...”
  – Brent Thill [07:44]

• On STEM Inspiration:

  “Apollo inspired a generation...I really hope we’re going to have the same impact on this generation, the Artemis generation.”
  – Laurie Leshen [45:05]

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Key Timestamps

• Urgent Wall Street Meeting on AI Risks: 01:46–06:23
• CoreWeave’s Big Week & Analyst Reactions: 06:23–10:53
• The Compute Crunch & Infrastructure Demand: 10:53–13:30
• Macro Market (Asia, Hardware vs. Software): 13:30–16:27
• Defiance ETFs on AI/Geopolitics/Defense: 16:27–21:12
• Discussion of Artemis 2 Moon Mission: 38:45–46:33
• Apple Store Union Fallout: 48:15–50:24

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Conclusion

This episode vividly captured the convergence of technological, financial, and geopolitical risks surrounding AI's rapid advancement. Urgent, behind-the-scenes meetings signal Wall Street's cyber anxiety as frontier AI models enter critical infrastructure. Simultaneously, the hardware/software market divide and the infrastructure "gold rush" are reshaping global tech investing. Listeners also got rare insights into the business of compute, AI’s impact on warfare, and the renewed cultural spark of manned space exploration.

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Transcript

[Deloitte Representative]

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[IBM Representative]

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[Core Weave CEO Michael Trader]

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[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Bloomberg Tech is live from coast to coast with Caroline Hyde in New York and Ed Ludlow in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Tech. Coming up, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant and Fed Chair Powell summoned Wall street leaders to an urgent meeting over potential cyber risks from Anthropic new AI model Plus Anthropic has agreed to rent data centers from core Weave to power such AI services. We speak the Core Weave CEO Michael Traitor this hour and after an historic trip around the moon, the crew of Artemis to prepare to splash down today. But first we check in on these markets. An extraordinary rally has occurred over the last few days. I hope on the conflict. Conflict resolution is nearing the US and the Middle east. Of course with Iran, that discussion happens over the course of the weekend. We're up almost 5% on the NASDAQ 100. We're up for two straight weeks and indeed it's the best week we've seen since November of last year. But there is a lot of angst under the surface of what's happening with the course of AI developments. Let's dig into a key story everyone is reading today. Bloomberg has learned that Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant and Fed Chair Jerome Powell summoned Wall street leaders, these leaders to an urgent meeting earlier this week. Sources say the focus was on concerns that Anthropic's new AI model will usher in an era of greater cyber risk. That echoes the lab's own worries. It gave tech financial firms limited access to the Mythos model to help prepare. Let's get all of the discussion with Bloomberg's banking and finance reporter Catherine Doherty. And Catherine, what's notable is the urgency with which this happened, correct? Yes.

[Bloomberg Banking and Finance Reporter Catherine Doherty]

So earlier this week, many of these CEOs were already in D.C. for the financial Services Forum. But the level to which this meeting got arranged, that wasn't previously on the agenda. And the hush hush nature, it really was not meant to be something that was broadcast. Even though you have, you have Brian Moynihan, you have the CEOs from Citi, Goldman, all of these big bank leaders that again, would have already been participating in some form of meetings already around D.C. but this one was meant to be something that was behind the scenes and a precautionary measure, something that is starting the discussion about the concerns that are being raised around these AI tech issues that are coming into view right now. I think it's very early days and the next step after this initial meeting, and again because the discussions are just starting, is how the banks deal with and prevent any further scrutiny that might come up from other advanced tech that they might either be implementing or going to slowly be implementing in the future.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

And look, it was interesting that Jamie Dimon wasn't there seemingly a calendar conflict, but he's already part of the Glass Wing project as it's known already. Mythos. And the power of this AI model of Anthropic was well known. And Anthropic itself had put it into the hands of 40 such partners, including JP Morgan, to ensure that they stress test to ensure that they're on board. So are these CEOs well aware of the power of these AI models? Because, look, Open Air has been doing similar things, trying to educate about the cyber concerns.

[Bloomberg Banking and Finance Reporter Catherine Doherty]

That's right, there are guardrails and that's really why these steps are being taken. This is not just being widely disseminated to these companies or to the public for that matter. So these CEOs, I think for the ones that were a part of this meeting, you have both the discussions of raising awareness and then if you are already aware, what are you doing about it? How are you taking steps, steps to protect your, your data, your internal data that Includes all of the data that you have on the US consumers that you're banking. So these are the kind of things that are being really talked about both from the precautionary level and then strategy wise, how they can put guardrails in place. As you mentioned, some of the companies that are already part of this project, Glasswing, they're, they're testing these things out and that means that they're both looking at how their systems can be improved. Really, these AI models are not meant to be things that are there.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

There's upside as well as downside.

[Bloomberg Banking and Finance Reporter Catherine Doherty]

Exactly. It's meant to be something that helps. Right. Improves and identifies some of the vulnerabilities, but then it's meant to protect. And so the questions have emerged though of if you identify and then the tech gets around it and starts to, to take advantage of those vulnerabilities that they identify. Those are the main concerns that are

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

being brought up for these systemically important financial companies. Catherine, with all the news that's happening when it comes to the relationship of the banks and Anthropic and look, let's talk about the compute needed for Anthropic. Maybe that's in some way why we're seeing a limited rollout of Mythos shares. A core wave though as you can see. Trading up 13% after landing a multi year deal with Anthropic, renting out datacenter capacity to power its Claude AI models as demand for the infrastructure surges. This comes just a day after Core. We've of course announced that whopping $21 billion deal with matter. We want to get an analyst. Take Brent dealers with us. Jefferies, you've got a buy rating I believe $120 price target. Look, how much does the sentiment around Core weave with its Metadil now with its Anthropic deal end up pushing out the price target at least for this company.

[IBM Representative]

Yeah, I mean we have $120 price target to buy and you know the stock obviously started pretty weak on some of the concerns. But I think what we've seen is they continue to sign that they a list talent in a matter anthropic. They have Microsoft, Google. They are the luxury AI builder to the stars.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

They're not luxury being that they offer in video compute in particular Brent or how are we seeing that being diversified at this moment?

[IBM Representative]

Yeah, they're the luxury builder and they basically help assemble what is required for these systems to work. Doesn't matter the ingredients. They'll take whatever you want whether you're you Want a steak dinner, salmon dinner, vegan, whatever. They will assemble according to your needs. And when you have the best data center builders in the world turning to Core Weave, it's a, it's a pretty strong signal. And what I'd say is that none of these companies can build the infrastructure on their own. Microsoft said in their last earnings call they don't have enough physical buildings to put the compute in. And everyone is saying this from the conference this week in San Francisco, there's not enough compute. And that's why semis are going straight up and software is going straight down because CapEx continues to explode. Yet is the ROI pushed out? Perhaps. But Core Weave is going to be caught up into this in the next few years.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

And you say it's been volatile and it hasn't been straight up and the volatility has come about how it affords. And the moment we know we saw some volatile trading just yesterday because when they announced the Metadil they also talked about selling more convertible debt and the idea that they have to finance the revenue growth. How are you getting comfortable with that with Cool.

[IBM Representative]

Well they, you know, in our, in our math they have something like $90 billion of backlog and these customers are, you know, minimum five year deals. They commit a certain amount upfront. We, they just raised capital at a lower cost of capital than they raised because they're getting these from some of the best companies in the world. They're not signing up, you know, Sally or Joe's data center infrastructure down the road. They're signing up Google, you know, Microsoft, the top companies in the world that have ginormous cash flow and have no funding concerns. And again I think the CEO has said this repeatedly Michael, which is, you know, these are contracted, committed contracts that are legally stamped that they can't turn back on.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Yeah.

[IBM Representative]

And so you know, look, the long term question of, of what does the margin look like and can they produce an incredible software like business like what Amazon and Azure did at Microsoft? That's the real question. I think they're leaning that way and if they do this the stock could even go a lot higher. And right now we don't have proof that like that is completely off the ground and is flying with no turbulence. I think that's the direction. And if they pull this off, which is today they build the infrastructure and then tomorrow they're building and capturing the software, these workloads will not move and they will stay with them for a long time. So that's the real question. So I'd Say tactically in a really good spot. I think long term we all have questions about what the model, what the business looks like.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Yeah.

[IBM Representative]

But when you have CapEx going up 70% for the industry, we're going to spend $700 billion and this company has, you know, a 50 to $60 billion market cap and they have $90 billion contracted backlog plus, like I think it pretty much tells you a signal like stocks going higher.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Talk to us about how Anthropic started the week and it felt like a very long week. But if I cast our minds back, they were part of the Google and Broadcom announcement and the idea that they're going to be using ever more tpu perhaps coming from Google, which are of course formed by Broadcom. How much of a need is there for Anthropic to get the compute right now? Can you, do you have any idea of which of the customers that are most in the need and know right now? Because there's some reporting out there that maybe Mythos is being rolled out slowly because these new models have to be rolled out slowly because there isn't the compute to satisfy all our needs.

[IBM Representative]

Well, Anthropic, we've never seen a company get to 30 billion this fast. Right. And so when you think about Anthropic looks like a, it looks like a rocket taken off. We've never seen a company, you know, they beat Google, they beat Amazon, they beat everyone, you know, to this $30 billion target. So no one's seen this. And what we keep hearing from everyone, including my own use of anthropic and in OpenAI, you can see it, they keep throttling users, they keep trying to get you to pay more. They've told you you've reached limitations. We've heard repeatedly that, you know, again, there was a big article that you guys wrote on Amy Hood stalling data center build out at Microsoft and how, you know, she hasn't publicly said this, but how they regret it and they wish they had built more and they just, the last quarter they don't have enough physical buildings. So like right now the demand is so great and it's coming from all angles. You look at matter, Microsoft, Open Air, Anthropic, even Oracle, we've heard, you know, they aren't as price aggressive and they're not price aggressive because they don't have to be because there's really no demand and so they can charge whatever they want. So you're seeing signals everywhere that in this again, I think this is why my group, I cover Software is going straight down and why hardware and semis, you know, memory. Look at SanDisk, look at Bloom Energy, look at what's going on on all the picks and shovels of AI. We are nowhere near built out. And if you believe the CEO of SoftBank that we're going to have half a, half a trillion dollar data centers for AI, but we might have trillion dollar robotics data centers in the future. I mean this, this again, I don't, I don't want to be like it's, it's, these are big, big numbers and we're really, really early in the build out. I think the CW has been saying this, I mean I don't think Microsoft has said this repeatedly. They can't, they sit down and their hair is on fire and literally they cannot keep up with what, what they're doing every single day because the customers are demanding this. And you see it in the revenue numbers from all the AI stories that we're covering.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Brent, thank you. You always spell out so clearly for us. Have a good weekend. Brent Thiel of Jefferies there and stay with Bloomberg Tech. We've got cool, we've coming on. Michael and trader joins in. Less than 30 minutes time in New York coming up. Plenty more to dig in on the AI trade. TSMC sales surging 35% and that's even as Middle east tensions persist. However, Asian stocks today extend their slide and that's a software issue. Brett was just talking about it. This is Bloomberg Tech. Remains a tale of two markets. Let's talk about that. With TSMC for example, hardware defying Middle east volatility with a 35% revenue increase as is infrastructure demand just surges. But software stocks just look what happened across Asia trading for example, they're continuing to struggle and they're sinking here in the US too. Bloomberg's young Lee can talk us through it all. Let's go to the the glass half full TSMC numbers. Phenomenal.

[Bloomberg Asia Tech Reporter Young Lee]

Absolutely. So TSMC is the most valuable company in Asia and it's the world's largest founder chip maker. So its first quarter result were important and investors were looking for clues whether the impact from the prolonged war in Iran before the cease fire had any impact on the demand for the data center or gadgets like the iPhone. And it's clear that looking at this first quarter result which were higher than projection, that that is going to ease the concerns about this war having an impact on the data centers or demand for a data center or the, the gadgets like the iPhone. So the, the war in the Middle east has been pressuring the energy prices and the shipping routes and there were concerns and these earnings are going to give clues to investors whether there will be impact on the tech giant spending plan. The shares also rose. The shares rose 2% in Taiwan overnight and is also rising in the ADR is also rising in the US it was close to the February peak all time high in Taiwan. So it's clear that there's a rally in the hardware tech space.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

I mean a very round number right now, 2,045 points. But then on the downside, same thing is happening here in the US People are selling off software. What sparked it in Asia?

[Bloomberg Asia Tech Reporter Young Lee]

Absolutely, that software sell off. We saw that spreading to Asia overnight, especially the India market which has heavy exposure to software stocks. All saw a big sell off in, in the software names. And this is the resumption of the disruption fears that we saw before the war in Iraq, Iran and definitely there was the, there was a buy Asia tech names, hardware tech name before the war started and during the war. The high flying hardware tech stocks were the most beaten down during the war. And we're seeing kind of a reversal story here. We're seeing the resumption of the sell off in the air software name not only in the US but also in Asia and this recovery in the beaten down hardware tech memory chip or other hardware tech names in Asia.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

We want to thank you all over what's happening with Asian trade. Let's bring it back to the United States and more broadly. Sylvia Jonaski is with us, CEO at Defiance. ETFs saying the markets are being driven by two powerful forces right now as well. And one side is a growth. On the other side it's geopolitical tension. And look, as we head towards a weekend where there will be discussions and Vice President Bonds flying out at the moment to hopefully secure a more secure and resolution to the the conflict. How does that affect your what you're seeing in terms of purchasing of the ETFs?

[Sylvia Jonaski, CEO at Defiance ETFs]

Yeah, so it's really interesting, I think that what we've seen over the last couple of months or so is that a lot of the thematic ETFs that are in the AI space, whether it's AI power, whether it's infrastructure structure, whether it's like the straight ship names, you know, they've taken a hit very much like they have in other crisis scenes. Whether it's, you know, Ukraine tension, whether it's Covid things like this and you know, lo and behold we hear that a resolution Lucian could be on the way and all of these names start to rally again into the market. So I think I'll just be looking at what happens with the geopolitical conflict because I think that long term this is the investable story. It's all about AI, infrastructure, energy, air space and connectivity. But I think that the geopolitics will be a huge overhang if we don't see a resolution there. Expect a lot of market volatility, expect a pullback. If we do hear that the cease fire is more than a ceasefire and we're sort of moving forward, then I think the market's back on track for a positive, potentially positive year.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

But with the angst, of course, with war. It's about people and humanity.

[Sylvia Jonaski, CEO at Defiance ETFs]

Yes.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

But there's also supply chain, people's access to raw materials they really need in the rest of the world. And that's a chip story in many ways.

[Sylvia Jonaski, CEO at Defiance ETFs]

Yeah, I mean that's, that's a huge story now, but again it will depend on when this ends. Right. So I think if there's a resolution to the conflict soon, a lot of what we're seeing on the supply side will be resolved in a month or two.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Right.

[Sylvia Jonaski, CEO at Defiance ETFs]

It won't be overnight, but I think we'll get back to kind of reverting to the mean there.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

But I think we'll get back to all the problems with supply chain that already exists.

[Sylvia Jonaski, CEO at Defiance ETFs]

That already existed, but it won't kind of pile on and get worse.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Right.

[Sylvia Jonaski, CEO at Defiance ETFs]

But I think if this goes on for another month or two, then you really start worrying about things like inflation, the price of oil, gas and energy and how that factors into the consumer's wallet. And then the stock market, I mean

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

energy prices have been factoring into the build out where course reporting the open air is curtailing its Stargate UK ambitions because of energy prices there. How much are you seeing the ETFs showing that either that we're in a bubble or indeed that there's still this more worry that the stranglehold, the chokehold is, is really a lack of energy and a lack of infrastructure.

[Sylvia Jonaski, CEO at Defiance ETFs]

Yeah, I mean what I would say is I would almost take the criterion view on that because if anything we've seen inflows back into the air. Energy trade, like the, the energy and infrastructure infrastructure trade for example, has been probably one of our most popular in the last couple of weeks. Couple of weeks because I think investors are looking at it and saying like we already have this backlog as you're saying right now, is using 4.5% of the world's energy in two to three years, it's supposed to be 10%. Throw on top of that the geopolitical issues and you know, the supply issue there. What happens over time? It becomes more expensive. These companies could benefit from this over time. So I do think that overall it does benefit infrastructure in the Future. Future.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Your ETFs very much a hardware exposed rather than software exposed and at the moment software housing a terrible day of it as well. Even names like Palantir, which are a defense play, and even President Trump himself talking about Palantir and, and the application in war. What's interesting, we spoke with the CTO a couple of weeks ago talking about how this is an AI war. Just take a listen for a moment.

[Podcast Host / Advertiser Voice]

Obviously current, current operations are ongoing, but I think people will reflect back and

[Bloomberg Labor Reporter Josh Adelson]

say this is the first large scale

[IBM Representative]

combat operation that was really driven, enhanced,

[Bloomberg Labor Reporter Josh Adelson]

made substantially more productive with technology, with AI.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

And really we did see the CTO articulating that we've never seen a conflict like this. As I expose how much is that being shown in some of your ETFs, Jedi, for example, those that are focused on war and drones.

[Sylvia Jonaski, CEO at Defiance ETFs]

Yeah. So Jedi has, has certainly, you know, had its day in the sun. I think a lot of investors have, have flocked to it for that reason. It holds stocks like Palantir and it also holds the drone companies like Kratos for example. Aero Environment. What happens here is that war has changed. Right. It's perhaps not as much about the $200 million missile, but the 2,000 drones that you can send over for, you know, hundreds and thousands of dollars. Right. And it's more effective. They're unmanned drones and things like this. It's more about information and the ability and priority of decision making versus just tanks on the ground.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Right.

[Sylvia Jonaski, CEO at Defiance ETFs]

I think AI has changed completely the way, way that the world will approach war. And so if you think about that, you know, we've, we've had trillions of dollars of spending in aerospace and defense since the Cold War. It's the highest amount of spending that we've seen and that's projected to just continue to grow at a 20 to 30% CAGR after Iran and the conflict, who knows even more.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Right.

[Sylvia Jonaski, CEO at Defiance ETFs]

So I do think that a lot of the drones, the satellites, the space names, the Palantirs, longer term will be on the eyes of investors for that reason.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Not to mention with a Space X IPO coming up and Artemis ongoing. Silvia Jabilant, it's been great having you with us.

[Bloomberg Banking and Finance Reporter Catherine Doherty]

Thank you.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Thank you. Of Defiance ETFs coming up, we'll discuss the major AI models that come out thick and fast this week. What do they compete against and how is that competition between the Frontier labs? More on that next is Bloomberg Tech

[Deloitte Representative]

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[Bloomberg Tech Host]

it has been a busy week for model releases with new announcements from China's Alibaba as well as anthropic matter. Let's break this all down. Bloomberg's reporter Shereen Ghaffari. It's been an extraordinary week and just the fear factor alone around anthropic and methods. How are you discerning whether it's real worries about its power or real lack of compute? That means it's doing a slow rollout here.

[Bloomberg Reporter Shereen Ghaffari]

So it's a fair question. Until we have this model rolled out more widely, it's going to be difficult to say. Right now There are under 50 organizations, partner organizations, that can actually get their hands on this model. That being said, from the few people who have publicly experimented with it and talked about it, they are taking it seriously. And as Bloomberg reported this morning, the government is as well hosting a meeting among some government leaders leaders to talk about the potential vulnerabilities to the financial sector that technologies like this could raise if released.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Shane, what is all this meant for OpenAI? Because it's been an extraordinary week for them as well in terms of public relations, but also what's been happening in terms of them saying to their own investors, according to your reporting, that look, we're, we're ahead of the game because we've got more compute, but yet they're not going ahead with certain compute projects in the UK for example.

[Bloomberg Reporter Shereen Ghaffari]

Yes, again, you know, everyone is parsing different signals here and trying to understand which way things are headed or rather why certain decisions are made. But what we do know is that there is still this compute crunch in that all the major AI labs say they need much more compute in order to be able to serve their customer and that their customers. And that tracks with what we're seeing in terms of restrictions on free usage with some of the major vendors. And you know, they're charging more. Right. For the most premium products. So with Open Air, what we know is that they still very much have these ambitious plans for Stargate to roll out lots and lots of gigawatts of energy that people have never seen before in terms of the size numbers for powering AI. At the same time, we are seeing a pullback on that UK site, a pause, citing energy concerns, inciting regulatory concerns. So price does matter here. They can't pay an unlimited amount for it.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Shreen Gafari, you're across all of these things. It's so busy. We didn't mention what's been the new Spark announcement from Matter and what's happened with video in Alibaba and China. We so appreciate you joining today. Thank you. Coming up, we're going to talk about that compute crunch. Speaking with Michael and Trader Core, we've CEO this is Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. Let's check in on these markets because we're saying it all show it's a tale of two halves and as that 100 is showing with a hardware outperformance in particular at the moment we're up 4, 10%. In fact we're up more than 4% on the week now even as we see consumer prices jump. That core level of inflation actually relatively tame. So we got some support for risk assets. We've got planned peace talks throughout the weekend. That is the macro perspective. But then we're also thinking about the software sell off by 2.6% on the ETF that drops tracks software names once again tumult really ensuing from what the likes of anthropic status models other developments really mean for this area. Look at Palo Alto Networks. Here's a company that's actually helping with the Mythos trial. When you think about Glass Project in particular Glass Wing project where they're testing with some 40 partners to be able to get ahead of any cyber risks. Palo Alto Networks is one of those but it's still up by 7%. Worst day in two years. As we worry about how software names are reconfigured in the age of AI call, we've though benefits on the hardware side. We're up 12% because there is an absolute need for compute and infrastructure and today they announced that they're doing that for Anthropic. Let's get to the CEO of Core. We've now Michael in trader joins us. You've just had $21 billion deal announced a messy yesterday. You have Anthropic today. Michael, what does this mean for your investors in terms of the clarity of revenue growth coming forward?

[Core Weave CEO Michael Trader]

Yeah, first of all, good afternoon. Thank you for having me. But it has been a, you know, a unique couple of weeks for us here because not only have we really made tremendous progress with, with with the likes of Metta and Anthropic, but we've also had tremendous overwhelming success in the capital markets as we continue to, to build the funding mechanisms to be able to, to ensure that we are able to execute on our our roadmap for growth.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Let's talk about those funding mechanisms because you're looking at unique ways to be able to get access to credit lines by using basically the power of your customer. The fact that Matter is the one that's coming to you for the compute and the strength there you're also tapping though. Well, convertible notes was what was issued yesterday as well as bonds with seeking billions of that, how much more debt are you going to have to take on to fuel the growth?

[Core Weave CEO Michael Trader]

So you know, we're, we've been very creative about how we kind of look at the capital markets, making sure that we can execute on our plan for, for in the most cost effective way. And so you know, we, we issued eight and a half billion dollars worth of bonds at a minus of a minus paper because of the quality of our counterparties. And you know, that was a tremendous reduction in our weighted average cost of capital. And then we came back yesterday, we did the largest dual offering ever and that was both the, the, the, the convertible note that we issued as well as a tranche of high yield, you know, really positioning us well for the capital requirements. And it's just the oversubscription to, to these, to these tools that we're bringing into market, to the paper that we're bringing to market really provides tremendous transparency to us, to our investors, to our clients about how much access we are going to be given to capital as we continue to execute on this strategy. And you know, people are really confident the cost of capital keeps coming down in our ability to kind of drive the compute that is so dear to all of these model creators and product people who are producing product for, for artificial intelligence. You know, it's just been, you know, an extraordinary week both on the, on the capital raise side as well as the, the client contract side.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

As the cost of capital comes down, it gets more. How much more money do you need need to get from the debt markets? Michael?

[Core Weave CEO Michael Trader]

Yeah, so, so look, you know, our, our strategy continues to be success driven, right? And so we go out and we execute a contract like the one we just did with Matter. And now with that contract in hand, we will go into the capital markets and we will raise debt that will be at a very low cost of capital to be able to build the infrastructure to deliver on that contract. Each of our contracts are profitable and drive wonderful return. And at the parent company we're just looking to continue to scale into this, you know, unique opportunity to kind of build, you know, an enormous company that is instrumental in delivering infrastructure to the world.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

How much does anthropic need?

[Core Weave CEO Michael Trader]

So we're not at liberty to speak to the size of that contract. It is a multi, multibillion dollar contract, but really much more importantly than that from Our perspective, this is the first contract that we've executed with them. It's the first time that they've used somebody out of one of their core investors. And they came to us because of the quality of the infrastructure and the software solutions that we provide. And so, you know, we just think it's an incredible vote of confidence from one of the most important lands in the world. And we think that it's going to be a launchpad for additional business between us and them. Just as every other client that we've, we've brought on really all the major clients. They come on, they do a contract with us and it's a land and extent expand strategy for both, both parties. You know, we really build from that into a very broad based relationship where we become an integral part of their infrastructure strategy.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Let's talk about Mythos. Does the slow unveil of the model to unique partners, does that signal an issue with compute?

[Core Weave CEO Michael Trader]

So look, you know, the strategy that, that, that Anthropic is using to, you know, as they kind of bring their products to market is really, you know, you know, it's, it's, it's their strategy. You know, our job in this ecosystem is to provide as much infrastructure at the highest cost, quality that we can. Right. And they came to us, they engaged us because they have demand for COMPUTE because of the wonderful products that they are bringing to market. And that's, you know, being echoed across the different labs, you know, universal. And you know, our, our role in this is really to go ahead and to deliver the infrastructure that these companies are going to need and currently need to be able to successfully deliver their product to market. That's what our role is. We do.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Michael, I'm fascinated by the global perspective you have here because the geopolitical environment that we live in at the moment means that energy prices are driving up, particularly over in Europe and the uk Open air. We have reporting that they're pulling back on their Stargate project in the UK because energy is getting too expensive. And yet they're going out to their investors and saying, look, we're ahead of the game, we're ahead of anthropic because of our computer that we have. What are you seeing in terms of people trying to rearrange where that computers access from?

[Core Weave CEO Michael Trader]

Yeah, look, you know, the way I kind of view it, my background really is within the commodity space is that people are going to be very thoughtful about managing the cost of delivering infrastructure. And some of that is going to come from the energy side. It's going to be, hey, where can we get electrons that are effectively priced so that we can continue to drive our company? But it's also going to come from places like Core Weave, where our software and the yield on the compute that we build is just higher than other alternatives because of the quality of the software environment that we built. And so you're seeing both sides of that coin really being driven and you're seeing the success of our infrastructure and the adoption of our infrastructure because of the part that we can, you know, impact. And so we, we, we look at the different energy markets, we place our infrastructure in lots of different places in order to mitigate localized risks such as what's happening in Europe at the moment. But, but we really do think that the part that we can directly control is the quality of the infrastructure we deliver.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Would you pull back from the U.K. michael?

[Core Weave CEO Michael Trader]

No, no, we have no intention of pulling back from the uk. We are well positioned there. We have, you know, a great relationship with, with the energy companies, with the, the data centers and, you know, with the, with the broader economy over there. And we absolutely will continue to build and expand our footprint in those jurisdictions.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

MICHAEL and Trader, I always wish we had more time with you. Thank you. It's been a busy week. Give me some rest. We appreciate it. Corvette CEO coming up. Been a busy week for four NASA astronauts. They flew around the moon. Returning home may be the most dangerous part. We'll discuss the expectations for Artemis 2 splashdown. That's next. There's Bloomberg Tech.

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[Bloomberg Tech Host]

around the moon, the crew of Artemis 2 is preparing to splash down in the Pacific Ocean this evening. Now, the three Americans, one Canadian, have broken record for distance traveled by humans in space were the first to witness parts of the lunar surface as they traveled closer to the moon than people have been in 50 years. Now they're preparing for a pretty fiery plunge back into Earth's atmosphere in a major test of the Orion capsule's heat shield. Let's discuss that and what to expect with Bloomberg's space reporter Sana Prashanka. And Sana, why is this such a test for Orion and the capsule?

[Bloomberg Space Reporter Sana Prashanka]

Yeah, so during the first Artemis 1 mission, we saw that there were some issues with Orion's heat shield. Upon reentry. They had noticed some chunks of it had basically, you know, fallen off when when The Orion capsule splashed down and so that was kind of a test of what is to come. And you know they're trying out a different type of reentry this time in which the Orion capsule will be exposed exposed to those fiery temperatures for less amount of time. So you know NASA says they feel very confident in the performance of the heat shield this time around. But you know time will tell just

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

with Lockheed Martin built Orion crew capsule in particular, how has the company been navigating through this as well and how, how have all entities worked together to ensure that this is the safest possible splashdown?

[Bloomberg Space Reporter Sana Prashanka]

Yeah, so Lockheed Martin said that has said that they have done a very comprehensive investigation following Artemis one of their heat shield and you know what exactly went wrong and have done more testing with the heat shield of you know, the current capsule to ensure that they wouldn't face the same issues again with this different type of re entry. So they definitely feel confident and they have also engineered a new, new type of heat shield for the following Artemis mission starting with Artemis 3. So you know they've said that they have really investigated the issues, worked through them, fix them and that will be implemented on the subsequent missions following this one.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Sana, it's been as busy. Thanks for joining us Sana Prashanka there, our space reporter. Let's get even more with Laurie Leshen. She's professor of space future at Arizona State University. 4 Former head of a NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory first whenever to do that and just the scale of the anxiety as we wait for them for this splashdown at 5:00pm Pacific Time, 8:00pm here in New York.

[Laurie Leshen, Professor of Space Futures at Arizona State University]

Yeah, I mean it's definitely one of those pins and needles moments we, we tend to, you know, it's a little bit like waiting in line for, for a roller coaster. You're both nervous and excited. We're so thrilled to have the astronauts coming back down. But it is going to be a pins and needles moment for sure until they are safely back on the ship after they land in in the ocean.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Talk about some of the numbers here. 10 metric ton Orion capsule, about twice the mass of the Apollo capsule as you put it Lori. And what speeds are they hitting and how hard is this to scientifically ensure that the heat protection is that so

[Laurie Leshen, Professor of Space Futures at Arizona State University]

it is, it's a 10 ton, a 10 metric ton capsule about twice the mass of Apollo when it reentered the atmosphere. So it's bigger which is great for the astronauts. We've seen the cramped quarters. Can you imagine how small that Apollo capsule was and, and yes, they hit the top of the atmosphere going 25,000 miles an hour and over the course of 13 minutes slow down to about 20 miles an hour. That should be their hit points velocity, you know, under the, under parachutes going nice and slow, coming down into the Pacific. And other number I love is the heat shield gets to be about the temperature of the surface of the sun, about 5,000 degrees Fahrenheit. That's really hot. And so this is one of the biggest challenges of spaceflight is, is our atmosphere is great to help us slow down, but it heats the heck out of everything. So we've got to make sure those heat shields work. And I think the work between Lockheed Martin and NASA and probably subject matter experts even beyond those two organizations have really contributed to the confidence that we have going in to today's re entry. But we'll still all be on pins and needles.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

I mean and the confidence that's been built over the last nine days or so. This mission, we don't want to touch on all the word here at the moment, but has been remarkably significant successful.

[Laurie Leshen, Professor of Space Futures at Arizona State University]

It has. And, and look, we will celebrate like crazy once the astronauts are back on Earth and then we can really breathe and take that moment to celebrate what an extraordinary accomplishment here in the year of the 250th birthday of our country to once again inspire the nation and really the world with great science. You know, their flyby of the moon was. As a scientist that made my heart go pitter patter and also all of the data and information that we've gained about Orion and how it works and whether there are things we'll need to tweak before future missions. A lot of that data is resident on the capsule itself and in the brains of the astronauts. All of that will get downloaded once

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

they're back on Earth and then push us forward to Artemis 3 then.

[Laurie Leshen, Professor of Space Futures at Arizona State University]

Right, so, and it's going to go fast. Now this is what I love. You know, I was involved in this program back at the very beginning, back in 2011 when the very first Orion capsule came off the, you know, was being built and the SLS was born essentially. And now it's taken us a long time to be flying humans back into deep space with these two fabulous with the rocket and the spacecraft. But now it's going to go faster. So Artemis 3, we hope to launch in next year. So I expect, I expect you're going to hear very soon an announcement of crew more specifics about the mission which we've changed the mission profile from what was expected previously in order in part to accelerate this and hopefully accelerate getting boots on the moon, which we hope will happen in 2028 on Artemis.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

For you're back in academia, what does these moments, I mean, I just think about my kids coming home from school every day at the moment with various art projects and things that been doing around Artemis too. What has it done in terms of inspiring those that are studying under you, those that are now going to study under you?

[Laurie Leshen, Professor of Space Futures at Arizona State University]

I think it's a great moment. The, you know, Apollo inspired a generation around the world to pursue innovation, to pursue technology, to, to ask hard questions and do things that we thought were impossible. I really hope we're going to have the same impact on this generation, the Artemis generation. And we're really seeing massive amounts of excitement and not only from, you know, space geeks like us, but from, from everybody that we talk to. And so it's a great moment of opportunity for us in this country to continue to drive STEM learning and innovation.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

And Jared Eisenman, of course, the administrator, how important has NASA's focus been on this? To be bold. But also what about the money and what more is needed right now from the government?

[Laurie Leshen, Professor of Space Futures at Arizona State University]

Right. I do think Jared has been a real breath of fresh air coming in and trying to drive the agency to move faster, but do so smartly. I also know that he understands, based on personal experience, the risks involved in human spaceflight. And so we're going to fly when we're ready, but we need to start moving things out of the way. When I was director of jpl, I had this group I called the Snowplow team, which is can we get stuff out of the way for the technical folks who are trying to get us further, faster and get things done? We've got to be the people that clear out that clutter. And I know that he's really committed to that. And, and it's great because NASA needs that. It's become a bit bureaucratic and, and it's great to have that breath of fresh air.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

And Jared, mind your tenure. You were launching several new NASA missions. Laurie Leshen, it's always so great to have you on. Thank you so much. Former director of NASA Jet Propulsion Lab, currently the professor of Space Futures and Arizona State University. Now coming up, Apple, it's permanently closing its first unionized store in the United States. On the next. This is Bloomberg Tech. Time now for talking tech. And first up, shares of China's Sharetronic Data. They plummeted 20% following US charges against Supermicro Co founder for allegedly smuggling Nvidia chips. The company denies a relationship with Supermicro, but records Show ShareTronic procured $92 million worth of Nvidia H100 and 200 processors, which have been banned from sale to and within China. Meanwhile, Nvidia backed Lumentum said demand from the biggest US Tech companies for its optical components is accelerating and would be sold out through all of 2028 later this year. The company is investing at least $100 million to expand its specialized factories in Japan. And the Stock is up 50, 1500% over last year as investors bet on photonics as the essential plumbing for the next generation of AI data centers. Meanwhile, Apple is shutting its first unionized retail store in the United States. In June, citing declining conditions at the mall, the company said in a statement that the employee can apply for open roles at Apple in accordance with a collective bargaining agreement. Union representing Towson employees called the movement union busting, saying Apple's claim about the agreement is, quote, simply false. Let's dig into that. ReMax Joshua is here with more on this story. So is it that the mall isn't performing well or is it that this was the one rare case of unionization?

[Bloomberg Labor Reporter Josh Adelson]

Well, this tees up what is likely to be a years long legal battle potentially over that question whether this was illegal retaliation or simply business decision. It's not inherently illegal for a company to shut down a unionized location, but it is illegal for a company to retaliate against workers for organizing by shutting down. And across various industries it is often one of the biggest fears workers have about unionizing is that it could lead the company to retaliate by shutting down their business.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

How would evidence be weighed here? I mean several retailers we know, Crate and Barrel, Banana Republic, have pulled back from that particular mall, but then on electronics sellers as well. And so what is it that you've tended to see come forward in these years long battles?

[Bloomberg Labor Reporter Josh Adelson]

The U.S. labor Board, when it conducts an investigation, talks to various witnesses, looks at documents. Sometimes there are internal communications that come up that influence the decision whether to issue a command complaint. Then the case proceeds through many steps after that that can end up in federal appeals court. The union will point out as they have that Apple, they say, is not letting the union members that are losing their jobs get the same right to transfer to other jobs that workers at the other two stores being closed down are getting. And the union argues that shows the animus against the union here in the meantime. Meantime, though this upends one of the few footholds that organized labor had at Apple, and it could have a chilling effect on organizing elsewhere. Regardless of what happens with a potential

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

legal case, the International association of Mechanists and Aerospace Workers, how do they think Apple will unionize ever again or not?

[Bloomberg Labor Reporter Josh Adelson]

Briefly well, they're arguing that they will put pressure on the company, including looking to elected officials. We've seen sometimes these fights become as much about a company's brand and reputation as about the day to day profit of the company, and unions look for whatever leverage they can to push back in these situations.

[Bloomberg Tech Host]

Josh, it's great to have you here live to talk through the story. Bloomberg's Josh Adelson there now. That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech. Do not forget to check out the podcast. Find it on the terminal as well as online on Apple, Spotify and Iheart from New York. Happy Weekend. This is Bloomberg Tech.

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