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- [00:00]
Cincinnati Insurance Announcer
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IBM Representative
lot of noise about AI, but time's too tight for more promises. So let's talk about results. At IBM, we work with our employees to integrate technology right into the systems they need. Now a global workforce of 300,000 can use AI to fill their HR questions, resolving 94% of common questions, not noise. Proof of how we can help companies get smarter by putting AI where it actually pays off, deep in the work that moves the business. Let's create smarter business.
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Christina Raffini
Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News welcome to the Bloomberg this Weekend podcast with David
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Cincinnati Insurance Announcer
Gura, Christina Raffini and Lisa Mateo.
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Christina Raffini
Thanks for joining us for today's selection of conversations from the show.
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David Gura
You can listen to our favorite discussions right here on the podcast, but also make sure to join us live every Saturday and Sunday morning starting at 7am Eastern.
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Lisa Mateo
We're on Bloomberg Television Radio and the Bloomberg Business app, bringing you unique takes and in depth interviews on news, politics, lifestyle and culture.
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Christina Raffini
All right, right now Iran's foreign minister is in Islamabad, Pakistan, meeting with the Prime Minister he also today the President's Middle east envoy, Steve Witkoff and his son in law Jared Kushner are set, we think, to go to Pakistan. But as we were just mentioning, David, we don't have timing on that yet.
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David Gura
No timing. The problem seems to be Iran says there's no meeting planned with those key U.S. negotiators. So here to talk about what is likely to play out, or could play out, I suppose, is Bloomberg reporter Eric Martin, who was for that first round of talks and covers the State Department for us here at Bloomberg. Get us up to speed on what the administration is saying about the prospects for these talks. I think that there was a lot of anticipation going into that first round. It does seem like the expectations are perhaps a bit more muted.
- [03:01]
Eric Martin
Well, certainly this weekend the talks have been a moving or this week the talks have been a moving target. We saw on Tuesday a lot of anticipation waiting for the vice president to get on a plane to go to Pakistan. We saw the last minute changes to that reporting in terms of a meeting in Washington and envoys Kushner and Witkoff coming to Washington instead of going to Pakistan. So like everything, this is very fluid situation. And remember, it takes a long time to go to Pakistan, to get to Pakistan. I experienced that a couple of weeks ago. I'm still recovering my voice from that trip. And so we, you know, I did the math. It took about 26 hours last time around for the vice president's plane to get to Pakistan. 17 in the air, and then there's 26 hours difference from Washington. And so, you know, the earliest we could potentially see them in Pakistan if they were leaving now would be Sunday morning there. This is, you know, an evolving situation. But I think it's a good sign that we're seeing the envoys going rather than a principal like the vice president, because that takes some pressure off of the process. It means that there's not the same pressure to deliver usually, but the president or vice president is the closer they go in when there's a deal. We stayed up all night a couple of weeks ago, a couple Saturdays ago, waiting for the vice president to come out. 15 hours of constant talks, 21 hours on the ground. It was just exhausting. And so, you know, we've seen the Iranians signaling that they're not talking directly to the US they're not expecting to that they're expecting to go on to Russia and to Oman this weekend. And so we're kind of back to the stage where we're having notes pass between each side and where they're not all sitting together at the table. But some positive signs from the reporting that we've had from Iran in that they have a written response to the US Proposal and maybe dialing things down a notch in terms of the envoys, less of a press presence. Most of us are here in Washington trying to get David out to a party tonight. And so, you know, it's something where there's just a little bit less intensity than what we had two weeks ago.
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Christina Raffini
That's really interesting because we've been talking about how it might complicate things, the mismatch levels of folks. Right. Because the Iranian Foreign Minister is over there, you generally want to pair like with, like you expect the Secretary of State to go over there and whether the Iranians would be willing to engage in someone. But as our team pointed out, you know, there's this very special status that Witkoff and Kushner have that is not unlike other administrations. And to your point, one of the criticisms has been the lack of working level meetings. So it seems like you're saying maybe because they're not there, they can actually get things done.
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Eric Martin
There's just less pressure. No one's necessarily expecting a press conference from Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner when they come out. That's not been traditionally the way things have worked, whether it's been in Geneva, in Islamabad, despite all efforts by you and others, despite our best efforts as stalkers to, you know, to chase them down hallways and get them to tell us what's going on behind closed doors. The fact that there's not typically that readout immediately after means that you can kind of lower the temperature a little bit and, and maybe find more flexible landing zones in a process like this. But of course, as you said, Christina, the credibility that the envoys bring, the President's son in law and a close friend of the President, they have that credibility which you don't necessarily have from a career staffer, somebody in the Foreign Service or the National Security Council. So still important and still having that kind of key access and influence and ability to that space to negotiate, but just a little bit less pressure than when it's the Vice President and all eyes of the world are just on, on that hotel.
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David Gura
Eric Martin, great to see you. Eric Martin covers the State Department for us here at Bloomberg.
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Christina Raffini
Thank you so much. Nice to see you back. All right. Joining us now is Republican Congressman Michael McCall of Texas. He of course serves on the Foreign affairs and Homeland Security committees. You know who I did see out last night? David Gura.
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David Gura
Wasn't me, it was the Chairman emeritus was out. He was out about
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Christina Raffini
looking very respectful. British Embassy event, nothing on tour. Thank you for getting up early. I know it's, it's.
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Congressman Michael McCall
Thank you. I'll be sitting at the Bloomberg table tonight.
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Christina Raffini
Excellent. Excellent. This is how we could exert pressure to get this early. I mean, you heard Eric, you're very experienced in foreign policy. What do you give the odds of these talks succeeding in any kind of near term timeline?
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Congressman Michael McCall
I don't see any big breakthrough in the near term. I think his analysis is correct. They. To lower the expectations is smart. If you have the vice president there, that's usually when you sign the deal.
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Christina Raffini
Right.
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Congressman Michael McCall
So I think. I think they're doing this in the right way. You know, Ron is notorious for being dilatory in its tactics, you know, trying to get to a deal but then pulling the rug out the last minute. And then when you do get a deal, it's trust but verify, and it's very hard to trust them. And I think that's the big issue.
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David Gura
I'm curious. We've been following this. As Eric said, everything's changing hour by hour. I'm curious for you, as chairman emeritus of the Foreign Affairs Committee, are you getting the information that you need about the diplomatic objectives and how these talks are unfolding? Are you, like us, kind of fumbling a bit here, trying to figure out who's doing what and who's running for?
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Congressman Michael McCall
I mean, it could be better. I mean, I. Even in the prior administration, I would get calls from the Secretary of State, I think, on this Democratic administration. Right. I mean, they've been very close to the vest on this, and I understand that. But it's also important to reach out to Congress. We're under Article 1, a separate but equal branch of government. And so I've been to Islamabad. He's right. It's a very long ways away, and it's a very different part of the world. I do applaud Pakistan, though, for stepping up and being an intermediary between the two parties. I'm not very sanguine under this regime in Iran that you're going to have anything in the short term. I. I applaud the president for not hitting, you know, civilian infrastructure. That's almost an act of, you know, of war crime.
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David Gura
It's a war crime. Yeah.
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Congressman Michael McCall
To be honest with you. And so I think this is the right path. I know the markets have responded very well to this. I don't think it's in any best interest to see this drag on, the war drag on, if you will, when they see rising gas prices. There's a lot of pressure, actually, on the White House to get this thing resolved. But I don't know. And I think. I think Iran knows that, too. And I always am very skeptical. I think they're always trying to play us.
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Christina Raffini
But to that point, as we've talked about, the reason this administration pulled out of the Iran nuclear agreement the first time is they said because Iran couldn't be trusted. And even if they answered a deal, it wasn't worth the piece of paper it was written on. Those facts on the ground have not innately changed.
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Congressman Michael McCall
No.
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Christina Raffini
Are they going to be able to get a better deal this time around?
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Congressman Michael McCall
Well, the JCPOA would have legalized a nuclear bomb in Iran today. That's what we were saying back when. We oppose that. You know, I look, as long as this regime is in power, you're going to have this problem. And we've had this problem since 1979. Every president since it has said no nuclear, you know, warhead in Iran, but no president really done anything. They tried the jcpoa, President Trump's first president to actually act and hit Iran where it hurts. But I think, I do think in the early days of this, when the ITIL was with his cabinet underground and they were annihilated and taken out, there was a hope that there could be a regime change at that point in time. But the fact is it didn't happen. And I don't know if the American people have the appetite to stay in long term to finish that job or whether we hand that off to Israel and let Mossad try to do that, I don't know. But as long as this regime is in power, we're going to have this problem.
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David Gura
Let me ask you about that, because there's a big piece in the Times about the state of the new supreme leader. Grievously injured, getting a lot of medical care from a very small group of physicians. People are passing notes to get to him because they're worried about giving an indication of where he might be. But what you're talking about raises this point of who does the US need to talk to if its objectives here are to get some sort of regime change, to really change Iran. Was that a colossal misstep, do you think, by this administration killing those who could have been perhaps partners in trying to change the course in Iran?
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Congressman Michael McCall
Well, after the 12 Day War, they did. They didn't step up and they were not willing negotiating partners. Now they're no longer on this in this world, but there is a line of session in Iran and that's taking place. Their foreign minister seems to be the one, the really the sort of the point of contact for this negotiation. But they, you know, they're going to continue to, you know, as long as this regime's in power, we're going to have this problem. And so, I mean, they've been a source of torture and agony and terror in the Middle east since 1970. 9. And until that regime is gone, it's going to be hard to have peace in the Middle East. It's going to be hard, as Jared Kushner goes there, who is the architect of the Abraham Accords, to have normalization between Saudis and the Arab world. And Israel, we were getting so close to that. That's when October 7th happened, when those talks of normalization were going on. Iran saw that, it lit up its proxies, and that's what we had October 7th.
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Christina Raffini
But given David's question and the fact that, to your point, that regime did not fall, it is still there, and possibly a hardened form, is the Iran we have now potentially more dangerous and unpredictable than the Iran we had before this conflict started.
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Congressman Michael McCall
I mean, possibly their nuclear, their military industrial complex has been severely degraded. And that's the good news. The bad news is the regime still continues to move forward. And I think you're going to continue to have that problem of trusting them. And it's a very fanatical, this is not Venezuela and a decapitation of Venezuela. That was a beautiful military operation. This one, far more difficult, a larger country. It's hard to effectuate regime change without troops on the ground, which I would not recommend. I think we put our troops in the ground there, they become magnets for the jihadists. We saw that in Iraq and Afghanistan for 20 years. I don't think that would be a good idea. I do think Israel, though, with Mossad, remember, they can carry out political assassinations. Congress has made that illegal. They can do things we can't. And I think maybe they're perhaps in a better position to try to effectuate that. It's very complicated, though.
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David Gura
Increasingly, when we talk about Iran, we're talking about China and the degree which China is advantaged by this war continuing. I'm curious, if the president were to call you up and ask for your counsel ahead of his trip to China, what you would say, what are the objectives he should have in making that meeting, that having that meeting with President Xi that's been postponed once already?
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Congressman Michael McCall
I would lay conditions. I mean, the meeting itself is a concession of any president to meet with Chairman Xi, who is perhaps our greatest adversary in the world right now, the great power competition. And I would lay conditions. First, I would say, hey, stop assisting Iran in the region. I would say the same thing to Mr. Putin. Stop providing drone technology, stop providing targeting information on our military. I would say the same thing to Chairman Xi. I'm not going to meet and have a detente like meeting. If you're going to continue to, to arm Iran with your software that helps with your drone technologies. That should be an absolute precondition to any meeting.
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Christina Raffini
We've only got about 3 seconds. Let you go. But I do want to ask you about the Cabinet shuffling we're seeing and the changes in leadership in the president's inner court. Do you think is a positive thing or do you think this is a sign of disarray and chaos in the White House?
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Congressman Michael McCall
Well, some was due to, I think, you know, malpractice on the part of the cabinet members. I mean, the labor secretary had some really gross violations going on. I think Kristi Noem is a colleague of mine. I respect her. But the, you know, what they did with the vino and how they handled that situation. You know, I was a little surprised by the Attorney General Pam Bondi's firing. There's a piece though that came out in Politico today, it talks about this very issue. He has a limited window on confirmations. So there, there are a few more of these firings in the queue, as I understand it. And so the advice was, look, if you're going to do this, do it now while you have time to get confirmations done before the midterms. Otherwise, don't do it.
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Christina Raffini
Who's next? You want to preview? You have information that we don't?
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Congressman Michael McCall
I'm not going to, well, say for the dinner, you can read politico.
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Christina Raffini
Congressman Mike McCall, thank you so much. Always love it to see you, sir.
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Congressman Michael McCall
Good to see you.
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David Gura
Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend, right after this
- [15:39]
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- [16:36]
Cincinnati Insurance Announcer
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- [17:37]
IBM Representative
a lot of noise about AI. But time's too tight for more promises. So let's talk about results. At IBM, we work with our employees to integrate technology right into the systems they need. Now a global workforce of 300,000 can use AI to fill their HR questions, resolving 94% of common questions, not noise Proof of how we can help companies get smarter by putting AI where it actually pays off, deep in the work that moves the business. Let's create smarter business. IBM.
- [18:16]
Christina Raffini
Global oil prices have climbed back towards their wartime high as the conflict in Iran hits the eighth week. But have we seen the worst of the sticker shock when it comes to energy prices?
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David Gura
With us now in studio is Dan Juergen, vice chairman of S and P Global. He is also the Pulitzer Prize winning author of the prize the Epic Quest for Oil, Money and Power and a new book, the New Map, Energy, Climate and the Clash of Nations. Dan, great to have you with us once again. And I want to pick up with what our colleague Josh Wingrove was saying just a moment ago. He's in West Palm beach with the President. We talked about this notion of kind of energy price relativism that the President seems perhaps pleasantly surprised that oil prices haven't climbed as much as maybe he feared they would, raising the specter of $200 a barrel. Oil. Oil prices are higher, but we're not at 2008 prices, for instance. What do you make of what he's talking about there? The fact that the spike has been sizable, but maybe not as bad as he and others might have feared.
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Dan Jurgens
I think that's. Well, that's true if you go back to the 2008 or 2012-14 prices were over $100 a barrel. If you put that in Today's dollars, that's like $160 barrel. So we haven't seen that. And there wasn't that same kind of disruption that we're seeing now. But the question is, is still the relative calm before the storm, the longer this goes on, the more the risk on the upside grow because the impacts are being felt. The last cargoes have arrived in Europe, in Asia, and an inventories are being drawn.
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Christina Raffini
Is that what we're waiting for? Because my question is, why isn't it that bad? I'm confounded as a foreign policy person about the markets and their resilience and how any sign of life from these negotiations from the White House, they seem to look for any shred of evidence that things are going to be ok. Why is that happening?
- [19:51]
Dan Jurgens
You see a divergence between the financial markets, which as you say, respond to the news, you know, a deal is near or they're going to negotiate, and the reality of people in Asia actually not having enough. Oil shortages, rationing, businesses closing down, restaurants not operating because they don't have energy. So Asia is one area. Europe is starting to feel it, particularly jet fuel, and we're seeing it at the gasoline pump. But it's been there before.
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David Gura
Talk a bit more about that. The pain that many people around the world are feeling. And yes, we're fixated on the market price and futures and all of that, but there's a very real cost that's already taking effect here. And I'm curious, sort of how you assess that level of pain.
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Dan Jurgens
I think what was, you know, I think one of the things that people didn't think about before this happened, if they thought about the Strait of Hormuz, they thought about oil, maybe they thought about natural gas and lng, they didn't think about fertilizer, they didn't think about helium, they didn't think about aluminum, they didn't think about petrochemicals. And it turned out that that region is much more integrated into the corporate global economy because of all the economic development there. So it produces, what is it, about 30, 40% of the world's helium, which you need to make semiconductors or MRI machines. So this is actually unlike all the other things we were talking about in the last 20 years. This is a much bigger disruption of the global economy. But it's Asia because basically, economically, the Strait of Hormuz went east. 80% of the oil, 90% of the LNG went to Asia. And that's where the shortfall is in ways that people really didn't model.
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David Gura
I saw Fatih Bureau of the International Energy Agency saying we were facing the biggest energy security threat in history. And I wonder if you agree with that assessment of the moment that we're, I'm very curious what Dan Jurgens perspective is on this moment in the wider.
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Dan Jurgens
Yeah, I think this is, this is the biggest energy disruption we've ever seen. But as you say, it's ironic that we're not seeing the full price impact. And so time is really the key factor here.
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Christina Raffini
When you look at this, is it so bad? Because geographically there's just really no alternative, as there have been in some other conflicts there. You know, obviously there are pipelines that go out to the Red Sea, but you just can't get that volume through anywhere else. And as we've also been talking about, how concerned are you that this could be a chronic problem? Just because Iran agrees to something in the room doesn't mean they're going to change their minds if they've shown they have the capacity to shut this down.
- [22:13]
Dan Jurgens
Yeah, there was until this happened, there was a thing called the tss, the traffic separator system, where people understood that, okay, in an orderly way, this goes this way, this goes this way. Now there's going to be uncertainty over it. And it raises questions not only about the strait, but it raises the question about freedom of seas on which the world economy and world trade really depend. So I think there's, we come out of this, there's going to be an uneasiness about it, and so much will be critical as to what the outcome will be. Will there be an actual system and understanding of how this operates, or is it something that will fluctuate?
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David Gura
We last spoke with you eight weeks ago, I think the beginning, yes. And it was on the eve.
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Christina Raffini
It was eight weeks ago. I feel like you were just here. Sorry, continue.
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David Gura
You are on the eve of going to run your conference in Texas, Sarah Week. And I'm very curious with that in the rearview mirror, what those conversations were like. I imagine that your agenda had to be adjusted and changed as a result of what was happening in the Middle East. But what were the conversations like among executives that you had on stage, indeed had on the sidelines?
- [23:13]
Dan Jurgens
There are two things. One goes to what we were talking about, which is the sense that that the market was underpricing risk the longer it goes on. And I think that was a very strong message. And from the company people you heard, they were focused on constraints, logistics, how do you get supplies how do you make up for supplies? So they were not looking at what the futures markets were doing, expectations. They were saying, how do we deliver oil? The other big thing, of course the theme of the conference was big tech meets the energy industry. Where are you going to get the electricity for all the air development and what will be the sources? And so that was the theme that was in place before the crisis. But you could see really when it was late January when the military buildup started and that's prices were already rising before the war started.
- [23:55]
Christina Raffini
So what is the solution for that? I mean, as we talk about big tech data centers, this sudden spike in requirement coming, at the same time there is an energy crash crunch. Green energy is not very popular right now. Alternatives are not very popular right now. Is that something that needs to be reevaluated? Do they need to reevaluate how they move this oil through the region? Is anyone talking about an alternative long term plan so that we're not dealing with this every few years if this happens again?
- [24:19]
Dan Jurgens
Well, I think that out of this is going to come a bigger focus on energy security. And the Gulf countries themselves are going to say what do we do to protect ourselves? What do we do in terms of investment within the Gulf and outside the Gulf? But I think that, you know, this is the first, you know, we're in the China, 20% of the cars built in the world this year will be EVs. And that's going to get a tick up from this.
- [24:44]
David Gura
Certainly in our last block we talked about the blockade, the utility of it, the degree it's weighing on negotiations that are unfolding. And I know that there's been some debate about what that the presence of that blockade, the strait being effectively closed, going to mean for oil prices going forward. We have the President, United States saying, I'm going to paraphrase him here, he's got all the time in the world. If that blockade persists, if we see the kind of stalemate that we have been seeing for three months or six months or whatever, what is the effect that's going to have here?
- [25:11]
Dan Jurgens
Well, you know, of course, sitting here, it's hard to believe that it will last for another three months or six months. But a lot's happened that we already, this was all war was going to be over in five days. I think there are two things. One is that question and the leverage point about how bad is the Iranian economy? How much strain can it take without the resources? And that's the bet of the, of the US Blockade. I think The Iranian blockade, which it basically is, is that they can wage war in the world economy and the pressure will be so great that they'll come out in a better position. And in a sense, it's a clash between these two blockades that's unfolding now.
- [25:45]
David Gura
We haven't talked about. Sorry, no, no. On this point, we haven't talked about Carg island in many weeks now. But that was something that was kind of looming as something the US Might do, try to take Carg island or destroy Carg island, play out that scenario for us here, too, if things really go south in Islamabad, if there isn't any advancement in these talks. And President Trump, as he says he will pursue his military action once again targeting power plants, infrastructure, and perhaps the refining capabilities of Cargill. What does that mean?
- [26:10]
Dan Jurgens
Well, Winston Churchill said once that once the war starts, what happens? Whatever your plan is, what happens is unforeseeable and uncontrollable. And we're sort of in that state right now. I think Kharg island, as I understand it's doable, but it's also very vulnerable from the shore because it's fairly close in and Iranian artillery and drones and so forth. I think one of the factors here that is new is that really the new form of warfare that was really beta tested in Ukraine is now being played out in the Gulf region. And that would affect decisions about Carg
- [26:43]
David Gura
island, the cheap drones and other cheap drone.
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Christina Raffini
And we were talking. It's been fascinating to see this pivot for Vladimir Zelinsky has had a good run of luck with Orvan being ousted in Hungary and getting new allies in the Gulf as he's in Saudi and visiting the region.
- [26:56]
Dan Jurgens
And then trying to paraphrase, he has some cards now.
- [26:59]
Christina Raffini
He does indeed. I want to go back to something you were saying earlier. When you look at these two economies talking about the Iranian economy and how long they can last. But there's another issue here, and that's the U.S. economy. And we were just talking against the admiral about wars of attrition. When you look at who can outlast if this becomes a waiting game, you've got the very serious straits the Iranian economy is in, but you've also got some not happy American consumers and a midterm coming up and a president and a party who wants to get reelected. If this lingers into the fall, who blinks first?
- [27:28]
Dan Jurgens
Well, we certainly know that there's one thing, we see it every two years, every four years, that gasoline prices really matter and they really matter at the Polls and clearly that's in and everybody's calculations right now. But you look at the position of the US economy we're going to grow 2% or more this year that the and I think this is one of the things that the financial markets are so driven by what's happening with data centers that vast. Is it going to be 800 billion or trillion dollars of investment this year that that's to going bolstering the overall economy. Obviously gasoline prices remain. It's the most sensitive political price in this country. But our economy overall is, you know, is the envy of many other people and Iran's economy is actually in shambles.
- [28:13]
David Gura
Let me put an unfair question to you as the last one. I know you're not an expert on monetary policy, but we have a Fed that's adamant they can kind of see through this conflict or they said that at the beginning of it. How difficult does that become if this conflict persist? What's the effect going to be?
- [28:26]
Dan Jurgens
Well the question is where we're in an inflationary period beforehand for a lot of reasons including the amount of expenditure and so forth. What's happened to supply chains once you build energy security resilience in that as cost and then simply all the inflationary impacts that come from these higher prices. And so you're going to in order to see through inflation through this period, you're going to need really good glasses.
- [28:51]
David Gura
You're going to need really good glasses. We will leave it there. Dan Jurgen of S and P Global
- [28:54]
Christina Raffini
Vice Chairman, I feel left out. You both have really good glasses. It's a very unfair note to end
- [29:00]
Dan Jurgens
on one does think about that.
- [29:04]
David Gura
Thank you very much for taking us. I was great to have you. Our first show now to have you again with that update was hugely, hugely beneficial. I think as I say this is going to be a critical issue at this Fed meeting. I think that the decision is pretty much preordained. But I think there'll be a robust debate about how the Fed looks at this conflict the longer that it lasts.
- [29:18]
Eric Martin
Right.
- [29:18]
Christina Raffini
We're not expecting them to take action, but this is going to be a big point of discussion.
- [29:21]
David Gura
So we'll look to the middle in a while to see sort of what the conversation was like there. And certainly when we have the succession, when there's a new Fed chair, we'll see how he approaches the economy in this matter.
- [29:31]
Lisa Mateo
Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend. Right after this
- [29:38]
4imprint Announcer
Deadlines move, plans change and sometimes opportunities pop up out of nowhere when you need branded gear fast 4imprint is ready to deliver. 4imprint offers hundreds of promotional products in their 24 hour category. Everything from custom apparel bags and drinkware to writing tools, trade show staples and high tech gear. At 4imprint, they're focused on getting the details right. Printing your logo with precision, packing your order with care and shipping it out fast. And it's backed by their 360 degree guarantee. That's four imprint's promised your order will show up right on time, just the way you planned it. That's what it means to be four Imprint certain. So if you're prepping for a last minute event or jumping on a big opportunity, you don't have to settle or scramble. With four Imprint. Fast, reliable service and peace of mind are built right in. Check out their full 24 hour selection at 4imprint.com 4imprint for certain.
- [30:35]
Cincinnati Insurance Announcer
If you follow markets, you know the value of long term thinking. You plan, you diversify, you prepare for volatility. But in life, even the best strategies can't prevent every bad day. A fire, a loss, a disruption that demands immediate attention. When that happens, what matters isn't just what you planned. It's who shows up. That's where Cincinnati Insurance comes in. For more than 75 years, they've helped individuals and businesses navigate life's toughest moments with care, expertise and personal attention. Together with independent agents, Cincinnati Insurance focuses on relationships, not transactions. Their approach is grounded in experience, follow through and trust built over time. Bad days happen. And when they do, you deserve an insurance partner who understands risk, respects what you've built and is ready to help you move forward. The Cincinnati Insurance companies, let them make your bad day better. Find an independent agent@cin fin.com the thing
- [31:36]
IBM Representative
about AI for business, it may not automatically fit the way your business works. At IBM, we've seen this firsthand. But by embedding AI across hr, IT and procurement processes, we've reduced costs by millions, slashed repetitive tasks and freed thousands of hours for strategic work. Now we're helping companies get smarter by putting AI where it actually pays off. Deep in the work that moves the business. Let's create smarter business. IBM.
- [32:14]
David Gura
Trump says he wants to clean up the Lincoln Memorial. Reflecting police. Driving around the city yesterday saw that it's empty. There's no water in it.
- [32:21]
Christina Raffini
They drained it, right?
- [32:22]
David Gura
They've drained it. I drove by the Fed building, still under construction. Anyway, he wants to do this out of America's 250 birthday, which of course is this July.
- [32:29]
Christina Raffini
He says that new floor color you're seeing on your screen, there it is. Quite blue it is. American flag blue. That's just one of the many architectural projects he's undertaking as president, and the biggest one may be yet to come. So this week we took a tour of the city with our colleague over at City Labs to look at how the president is trumpifying D.C. architecture and design. The nation's capital has a few nicknames, the District, the Swamp. But it's also the City of Monuments, memorializing the fallen, commemorating conflict, and preserving past presidents in stone. When you look at government architecture and people building monuments or associations or foundations or buildings that are literal foundations, what are they mostly for?
- [33:14]
Kristin Katz
Well, they stand for people, they stand for places. They stand for significant moments in history.
- [33:20]
Christina Raffini
Kristin Katz covers the architecture for City Lab at Bloomberg. He took us to the site of a potential new addition to DC's landscape, the proposed Trump Triumphal Arch. It's quite beautiful, as you can see. And this monumental arc will beam at 250ft tall. The edifice would sit at this grassy patch in the middle of a traffic circle at the end of Memorial Bridge.
- [33:42]
Kristin Katz
This is where the arch will go.
- [33:43]
Christina Raffini
And it's going to be how high?
- [33:45]
Kristin Katz
250ft tall.
- [33:46]
Christina Raffini
How tall is that?
- [33:48]
Kristin Katz
The Lincoln memorial is about 100ft tall. So it's going to be two and a half times that.
- [33:51]
Christina Raffini
So they want it to be taller than the Lincoln Memorial.
- [33:53]
Dan Jurgens
Much taller.
- [33:54]
Kristin Katz
Much taller than almost any structure in Washington.
- [33:58]
Christina Raffini
The monument, colloquially called Arc de Trumpf, has already raised protests from veterans groups who say it will destroy the line of sight across the bridge.
- [34:06]
Kristin Katz
Memorial Circle is open for a reason. This is a site that stands between the Arlington House, which is Robert E. Lee's former home, and the Lincoln Memorial, which is, of course, the memorial, the monument to Abraham Lincoln. So it's a symbolic bridge. It represents the reunion of the country after the Civil War. And, you know, the detractors of the ark say that it would just stand between that symbolic unity.
- [34:37]
Christina Raffini
You're supposed to be able to see from one down to the other.
- [34:39]
Kristin Katz
You're supposed to be able to see from one down to the other. Now, the arch is going to be so big that the design renderings show that you could actually see Arlington House and the Lincoln Memorial from under it. Okay, But I don't know that that necessarily means it's not an occluded blocked view.
- [34:58]
Christina Raffini
When asked, the President seemed unconcerned.
- [35:01]
Dan Jurgens
That circle has sat there vacant for
- [35:03]
Congressman Michael McCall
hundreds, like 150 years or something.
- [35:06]
Dan Jurgens
Veterans are the ones that should like it. It's called the Triumphal Arc.
- [35:09]
Congressman Michael McCall
It's in honor of the veterans.
- [35:11]
Christina Raffini
And this isn't the only place the current president is leaving his mark or his name from the Kennedy Center. When did this go up, Kristen?
- [35:19]
Kristin Katz
This was a real surprise when this went up. It just kind of happened overnight. There was no act of Congress. There was no announcement.
- [35:25]
Christina Raffini
And it's above.
- [35:26]
Kristin Katz
It's above Kennedy's name on the Kennedy
- [35:29]
Christina Raffini
Memorial to the former US Institute of Peace. Did they stick on the letters?
- [35:33]
Kristin Katz
They did, yes. This happened in December. It's now, I think, technically the Board of Peace, a slightly different organization from
- [35:42]
Christina Raffini
an aesthetic architecture perspective. Why do people put their names on things? And is that something you typically see in a democratic society?
- [35:49]
Kristin Katz
It's generally not the case that US Presidents go and just put their names on buildings that they like or want to have some association with.
- [35:56]
Christina Raffini
Is there another president you can think of who has pushed through this many physical changes in Washington in recent memory?
- [36:02]
Eric Martin
No.
- [36:02]
Kristin Katz
It's really interesting. You know, if you look back, the changes have been so sudden. You have to really go back to the era of LBJ and Great Society.
- [36:12]
Christina Raffini
There's also the demolition of the historic White House East Wing to make way for a ballroom, paving over the Rose Garden lawn into a patio, and gold embossed everything.
- [36:22]
Kristin Katz
There's a lot of gold lettering happening at the White House these days.
- [36:25]
Christina Raffini
Is that what style is that? Is that neocolate classical? Is that, is that early Mar A Lago? Does it have a name?
- [36:30]
Kristin Katz
I think Mar A Lago might be
- [36:32]
Christina Raffini
closer than the White House says. The ballroom will be paid for by private funds. The funding for some of the other projects, including the arch, is still unclear. What's also unclear is how many of these alterations will be completed before the president leaves office or endure after he's gone. We're getting kicked out.
- [36:51]
Kristin Katz
They didn't put Trump on the security. Security truck.
- [36:54]
Christina Raffini
Oh, yeah, you want to get that? It's not on the truck. And props to our crew who managed to get the shot, while who you don't see is the security guard almost immediately to his left there talking to us. We got one shot at that. We got about 30 seconds up there before they immediately shoomp and we're like, you gotta go.
- [37:14]
David Gura
Unbelievable.
- [37:17]
Christina Raffini
Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend. Right after this
- [37:23]
4imprint Announcer
deadlines move. Plans change and sometimes opportunities pop up out of nowhere when you need branded gear fast. 4imprint is ready to deliver. 4imprint offers hundreds of promotional products in their 24 hour category. Everything from custom apparel bags and drinkware to writing tools, trade show staples and high tech gear at 4imprint. They're focused on getting the details right. Printing your logo with precision, packing your order with care and shipping it out fast. And it's backed by their 360 degree guarantee. That's 4imprint's promise. Your order will show up right on time, just the way you planned it. That's what it means to be four Imprint certain. So if you're prepping for a last minute event or jumping on a big opportunity, you don't have to settle or scramble with 4imprint fast reliable service and peace of mind are built right in. Check out their full 24 hour selection at 4imprint.com 4imprint for certain.
- [38:19]
Cincinnati Insurance Announcer
If you follow markets, you know the value of long term thinking. You plan, you diversify, you prepare for volatility. But in life, even the best strategies can't prevent every bad day a fire, a loss, a disruption that demands immediate attention. When that happens, what matters isn't just what you planned. It's who shows up. That's where Cincinnati Insurance comes in. For more than 75 years, they've helped individuals and businesses navigate life's toughest moments with care, expertise and personal attention. Together with independent agents, Cincinnati Insurance focuses on relationships, not transactions. Their approach is grounded in experience, follow through and trust built over time. Bad days happen, and when they do, you deserve an insurance partner who understands risk, respects what you've built and is ready to help you move forward. The Cincinnati insurance companies, let them make your bad day better. Find an independent agent@cin fin.com.
- [39:21]
IBM Representative
the thing about AI for business, it may not automatically fit the way your business works. At IBM, we've seen this firsthand. But by embedding AI across hr, IT and procurement processes, we've reduced costs by millions, slashed repetitive tasks, and freed thousands of hours for strategic work. Now we're helping companies get smarter by putting AI where it actually pays off. Deep in the work that moves the business. Let's create smarter business. IBM.
- [39:59]
David Gura
Welcome back. It is now time for this weekend's pointed news quiz on the road this weekend in the nation's capital with another guest competitor. Who do we have with us, Christina?
- [40:07]
Christina Raffini
It's Jeffy. Jeff. Jeff Mason.
- [40:09]
David Gura
Jeffy Jeff.
- [40:10]
Dan Jurgens
I want to win this game, but
- [40:11]
David Gura
you have to tell me how it works. Oh, well, we can't do it. Fortunately, Lisa Mateo is here.
- [40:15]
Christina Raffini
That is quizmaster Lisa Mateo's job. She'll run you through it.
- [40:17]
Lisa Mateo
All right, here's how it's going to work. Okay, so there are three categories. Jeff. Okay, these are stories from the week. So if You've been keeping up to date with them. You have. We used to have 30. Now we have 12. Because you're here 12 chips and front of you. And what you do is, as I say, each category, think about how confident you are. Like. Or do you want to place all your bets on the first category? Or maybe do you want to spread them out evenly? You know, everybody has a different
- [40:41]
David Gura
point.
- [40:41]
Dan Jurgens
Oh, darn it.
- [40:42]
David Gura
Okay.
- [40:43]
Lisa Mateo
But if you get it wrong and you place your chips. I get those chips. So you lose them.
- [40:47]
Christina Raffini
Yes, very.
- [40:48]
Lisa Mateo
If you get it right, you keep them. Okay. All right, you ready to play?
- [40:50]
David Gura
It's off on a bonus round as well.
- [40:51]
Lisa Mateo
And there's a bonus round. Okay, that's the best part. Okay, here are your categories.
- [40:55]
Congressman Michael McCall
Okay.
- [40:56]
Lisa Mateo
First category is insurance.
- [40:58]
David Gura
Great.
- [40:58]
Lisa Mateo
Second. Second category is crypto.
- [41:01]
Christina Raffini
Okay.
- [41:02]
Lisa Mateo
And third category is media. All right, so where. Where are we placing our bets?
- [41:06]
Christina Raffini
I think this might be David Gur's week, finally. I think it is.
- [41:10]
David Gura
I feel like you're a secret insurance fiend.
- [41:14]
Christina Raffini
I am not. I'm gonna split evenly and pray to the news God.
- [41:18]
David Gura
All right, Evenly.
- [41:19]
Lisa Mateo
Okay.
- [41:19]
David Gura
Putting most of my chips. All right. Media. I like that. Most on media.
- [41:23]
Lisa Mateo
Most on media. Okay.
- [41:24]
David Gura
Half the other two.
- [41:25]
Lisa Mateo
And you're putting none on the first category.
- [41:27]
David Gura
It's customary for me to skip the first category. Okay, interesting.
- [41:30]
Lisa Mateo
We're getting into it. Let's get to the question. Okay, here's the question. For insurance. Live event organizers are using which bespoke form of insurance to protect against nature related losses.
- [41:41]
David Gura
Wow.
- [41:41]
Lisa Mateo
So what is that type of insurance called?
- [41:44]
David Gura
Wait, this isn't like multiple choices?
- [41:47]
Christina Raffini
No, you have to write it down. It's Jeopardy. Style.
- [41:49]
Lisa Mateo
If you do. If you play it online, they do give you multiple choice. So if you want to play this
- [41:53]
David Gura
is the real world, it's not online, Jeff, so.
- [41:55]
Lisa Mateo
But here, you got to use in the studio. We give you no choices.
- [41:58]
Christina Raffini
I don't even know if this is a real word.
- [41:59]
Congressman Michael McCall
I'm.
- [42:00]
Christina Raffini
I'm. I have no idea.
- [42:01]
Lisa Mateo
So again, live event organizers using which form of insurance to protect against nature related losses. Do we have answers written on your boards?
- [42:07]
David Gura
I'm going to put two down.
- [42:08]
Lisa Mateo
Wait, are we. Oh, she's crossing off. She's crossing off. She's trying another route. Oh, Christine is ready.
- [42:13]
Christina Raffini
All right. I don't think that's right either.
- [42:15]
Lisa Mateo
Okay, flip it, David.
- [42:16]
David Gura
Reveal of God or force majeure.
- [42:17]
Christina Raffini
I wrote force majeure.
- [42:19]
Lisa Mateo
Force majeure.
- [42:19]
Dan Jurgens
I wrote disaster coverage.
- [42:21]
Christina Raffini
Coverage.
- [42:22]
Lisa Mateo
It's called parametric insurance.
- [42:25]
Christina Raffini
Lisa Mateo.
- [42:26]
Lisa Mateo
I'm telling you. Did you know that actually, Bad Bunny used it in his concerts in case they get rained out?
- [42:31]
Christina Raffini
Parametric insurance.
- [42:33]
Lisa Mateo
Parametric insurance. Who knew? Hand over the tip.
- [42:36]
Dan Jurgens
Reluctantly.
- [42:37]
Christina Raffini
So, at the moment, since David didn't bet on that, he's doing better than us. We got to pull it together, man.
- [42:42]
Eric Martin
Acceptable.
- [42:43]
Christina Raffini
Agreed. I have never lost to him. If I lose to him, it's going to be you. All right? It's going to be great.
- [42:47]
Lisa Mateo
Okay.
- [42:48]
David Gura
Never go back to New York, but
- [42:50]
Lisa Mateo
I think I might get you on crypto. I don't know. We'll see. Crypto is the next category.
- [42:53]
David Gura
Crypto, Digital currency.
- [42:55]
Lisa Mateo
And you put. Okay. You place a bed.
- [42:57]
Christina Raffini
We bought our money on it.
- [42:58]
Lisa Mateo
Okay. Crypto billionaire Justin sun is suing which crypto company, saying it is on the verge of collapse. What is the name of that crypto company? Company. His name. Crypto billionaire Justin Sun. He's suing this company. What is the name of that company?
- [43:18]
Dan Jurgens
Okay, Jeff, you're not writing anything.
- [43:20]
David Gura
Jeff, do you like the music? Jeff likes the music. I can tell. Music is great.
- [43:25]
Lisa Mateo
It's soothing.
- [43:26]
David Gura
Yes.
- [43:26]
Lisa Mateo
Okay, we got our answers. Let's flip it. Okay.
- [43:29]
David Gura
World Liberty Financial.
- [43:30]
Christina Raffini
Oh, I said dogecoin.
- [43:32]
Lisa Mateo
No idea. Jeff Mason. That is definitely not the winner. You have experience, David.
- [43:37]
Dan Jurgens
Kara, what are we doing?
- [43:39]
Lisa Mateo
This is his time for you to
- [43:42]
Christina Raffini
come on this quiz. Wait.
- [43:43]
Dan Jurgens
This is not my fault.
- [43:44]
David Gura
You didn't know the answer either.
- [43:46]
Christina Raffini
It's never your fault. It can't be my fault. It's got to be your fault.
- [43:49]
Lisa Mateo
I am getting my little.
- [43:50]
Christina Raffini
We got two minutes left. All right, here we go. Next one.
- [43:53]
Lisa Mateo
Media. Media. You can make up for it.
- [43:56]
Christina Raffini
Here we go. I knew this was gonna happen.
- [43:59]
Lisa Mateo
Satirical news brand, the Onion.
- [44:01]
David Gura
Oh, yes.
- [44:01]
Lisa Mateo
Trying to license the intellectual property of which website.
- [44:05]
Christina Raffini
I have to remember the name of it. It's. I'm gonna go. Oh, it's on the tip of your tongue. Come on, come on, come on. There we go. I got it. I got it.
- [44:11]
Lisa Mateo
It's come to her.
- [44:11]
Christina Raffini
Okay, I got it.
- [44:13]
Lisa Mateo
What is the name of that website? We need good answers. Jeff Mason's on it.
- [44:18]
Christina Raffini
Flip it.
- [44:19]
David Gura
Infowars.
- [44:19]
Lisa Mateo
Infowars.
- [44:20]
Christina Raffini
Infowars.
- [44:20]
Dan Jurgens
Theonion.com.
- [44:23]
4imprint Announcer
they bought it.
- [44:23]
David Gura
They bought it.
- [44:25]
Lisa Mateo
Good try, Jeff. I love that.
- [44:27]
Christina Raffini
You are right. It is Infowars.
- [44:30]
Lisa Mateo
Infowars.
- [44:31]
Christina Raffini
And they've changed the logo, and it's like a rainbow now, and it has the onion in the middle of it because they. In the lawsuit, they won it.
- [44:37]
Dan Jurgens
Yeah.
- [44:37]
David Gura
Oh, this is Ben Collins, who used to be a colleague at msnbc. Way back when. But he's now the CEO of the Onion, and he has kind of engineered this entire purchase. It's a wild thing.
- [44:47]
Christina Raffini
That's a great job.
- [44:48]
David Gura
Yeah. What do they get out of that? That's interesting, us talking about it, Right?
- [44:53]
Congressman Michael McCall
Here we are.
- [44:54]
David Gura
Ding, ding, ding.
- [44:55]
Lisa Mateo
Are you ready for a bonus?
- [44:56]
David Gura
I certainly am. I believe I've won the game.
- [45:00]
Lisa Mateo
0 right now.
- [45:01]
Christina Raffini
Can I come back at the bonus? I can't come back at the bonus.
- [45:04]
David Gura
I think it's all
- [45:07]
Dan Jurgens
right.
- [45:08]
Lisa Mateo
Anyway, I'll give it to you anyway. Okay. It's podcasters.
- [45:11]
David Gura
Okay. Yes. This is my day podcasting.
- [45:16]
Dan Jurgens
Rigged.
- [45:16]
Lisa Mateo
Okay, pull it together.
- [45:18]
David Gura
Here we go.
- [45:18]
Lisa Mateo
The company Unwell is in turmoil with staff turnover. Turnover and an influencer feud. So which podcast host is the co CEO of that company? Unwell.
- [45:32]
Dan Jurgens
Oh, no.
- [45:34]
Eric Martin
Unwell.
- [45:35]
Lisa Mateo
Not doing.
- [45:36]
Christina Raffini
Not doing well. Unwell.
- [45:37]
David Gura
It's the know your podcasters day. You're on.
- [45:40]
Lisa Mateo
So which podcast host is the co CEO of Unwell?
- [45:45]
David Gura
Time is nigh.
- [45:46]
Lisa Mateo
Oh, Jeff, you're not even trying to. You're not even writing anything.
- [45:51]
David Gura
I used my no idea chit already. Alex Cooper.
- [45:55]
Lisa Mateo
Okay. Alex Cooper.
- [45:56]
Christina Raffini
Yeah. I said call me daddy. Alex. I couldn't remember my last name. Yeah.
- [45:59]
David Gura
What? She gets credit for that?
- [46:01]
Lisa Mateo
Yes, she gets credit for it.
- [46:03]
Christina Raffini
Mateo Alex.
- [46:04]
David Gura
Call your daddy Alex Scuber.
- [46:06]
Lisa Mateo
Call your Daddy. Yes. The fourth most popular podcast in the U.S. she's fleeting with Alex.
- [46:11]
David Gura
Carmen, our colleague, wrote a big piece about this and it's been a hit on the terminal website. Check it out.
- [46:16]
Christina Raffini
I feel like this is the cycle of. Of these young leaders who make all this money and then it seems to happen across industries.
- [46:22]
Eric Martin
So I heard.
- [46:23]
David Gura
I can't speak from experience. Anyways, the pointed news quiz can be taken at bloomberg.com/pointed. You can find that on the app as well.
- [46:29]
Christina Raffini
He's going to be in all day. We're going to have to. We're going to have to do this. With David Gura as the winner. Thanks for joining us on today's Bloomberg this weekend podcast. Don't forget to to tune in live for the show every Saturday and Sunday morning starting at 7am Eastern.
- [46:45]
David Gura
We're on Bloomberg Television Radio and the Bloomberg Business app, bringing you unique takes and in depth interviews on news, politics, lifestyle and culture. For many men, mental health challenges aren't recognized until they've already taken a toll.
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4imprint Announcer
Work pressure, financial stress, changing relationships and traditional expectations around masculinity can quietly wear
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David Gura
men down, often without clear warning signs.
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4imprint Announcer
In season three of the Visibility Gap, Dr. Guy Winch and his guests explore how these pressures show up, how to spot them earlier, and how men can access meaningful support.
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Congressman Michael McCall
Listen to the new season of the
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4imprint Announcer
Visibility Gap, a podcast presented by Cigna Healthcare.
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Christina Raffini
This Mother's Day Celebrate all the women
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Cincinnati Insurance Announcer
who make life brighter with a gift from Pandora Jewelry. Choose jewelry that reflects what she means to you and the moments you share.
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Kristin Katz
Make it even more meaningful by personalizing
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Cincinnati Insurance Announcer
your piece with an engraving in your own handwriting, something no one else has, either a date, a name, or something unique to you. Because the best Mother's Day gift says more than I love you.
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Dan Jurgens
It says I appreciate you.
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Cincinnati Insurance Announcer
It says, I see you.
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4imprint Announcer
Find the perfect Mother's Day gift at
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Dan Jurgens
your local Pandora store or online@pandora.net Lots
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Lisa Mateo
of places can expose you to identity theft.
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4imprint Announcer
That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more
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David Gura
than anyone can do on their own.
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4imprint Announcer
If we find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, we alert you right away, all through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com iheart Terms apply.