Christina Ruffini (2:25)

You can listen to our favorite discussions right here on the podcast, but also make sure to join us live every Saturday and Sunday morning starting at 7am Eastern.

Leslie Shedd (2:33)

We're on Bloomberg Television Radio and the Bloomberg Business App bringing you unique takes and in depth interviews on news, politics, lifestyle and culture.

Christina Ruffini (2:45)

Our focus this morning. Yes, let's say these negotiations between the US and the Iranians, but much more acutely now what happened last night at the White House Correspondents association dinner in Washington, D.C. the three of us were in attendance there along with many of our Bloomberg colleagues. And to get everyone up to speed, shots were fired early on in that dinner. The President, the vice President, many members of his Cabinet ushered out of that building. The President giving a statement afterward at the White House about what had happened. We know that a suspect has been apprehended from California, but still the uncertainty that followed in the immediate aftermath of that shooting remains. There's a lot that we still don't

Host/Interviewer (3:15)

know and ongoing, I mean, we are assuming a motive. But to what we were talking about earlier, they haven't charged him with that yet. So that means that they haven't proven

Christina Ruffini (3:23)

two charges to come on Monday, both of which had to do with guns,

Host/Interviewer (3:26)

weapons charges, because that is, you know, the clearest thing that they can get before investigating this more. But we need to know more about this subject. And the other big question is basically, how did this happen? And that's something that we think we're gonna be talking about a lot here in Washington. And throughout the week, we were sitting

Christina Ruffini (3:41)

near each other, and it was just a startling moment.

Host/Interviewer (3:43)

It was amazing.

Leslie Shedd (3:44)

It was.

Christina Ruffini (3:44)

And hearing the stories of everyone we've

Leslie Shedd (3:46)

had on this morning of exactly what happened, from people ducking under tables to the confusion, to the fear in people's faces.

Christina Ruffini (3:52)

I saw one woman in tears.

Leslie Shedd (3:53)

So it's. It's an example of what can happen

Host/Interviewer (3:57)

in this type of situation, that people

Leslie Shedd (3:58)

were just confused and didn't know where to go and what to turn and what to do.

Host/Interviewer (4:02)

All right, we've got some sound and some video. We're going to kind of run everybody through what happened. As the President was having his mind read by the evening's entertainment, several thuds could be heard in the ballroom. Initially, neither the President nor the guests took much notice. Then a column of security, Secret Service, and tactical teams swarmed the ballroom. The vice President and President were quickly whisked off stage, followed by the President of the White House press Corps. Weijiajiang Secret Service jumped tables and flipped chairs to rush cabinet members, including Stephen Miller and a pregnant Katie Miller, out a side door.

Don Beyer (4:41)

Can we come with you?

John McCarthy (4:42)

Stephen and Katie.

Host/Interviewer (4:43)

The speaker of the House was rushed through the lobby. Cabinet secretaries were extracted from their tables, while ambassadors, VIPs and guests shut sheltered under them. Journalists ducked for cover while trying to record on their phones. Guests who weren't evacuated were asked to wait. But with an active crime scene just outside the ballroom door, the President instead called a press conference at the White House.

Leslie Shedd (5:04)

Can you describe what was going through your mind, how you were feeling in that moment?

Michael McCaul (5:10)

That's a very good question, actually. It's always shocking when something like this happens. Happened to me a little bit. And that never changes the fact we were sitting right next to each other, the first lady on my right, and I heard a noise and sort of thought it was a tray. I thought it was a tray going down. You know, I've heard that many times. And it was pretty loud noise and it was from quite far away. He hadn't reached the area at all. They really got him. But. So it was quite far away. But it was a gun. And some people really understood that pretty quickly. Other people didn't. I was watching to see what was happening. Probably should have gone down even faster.

Host/Interviewer (5:56)

Back at The Hilton, the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, mayor of D.C. and chief of police held a press conference.

Christina Ruffini (6:02)

I'm not exactly 100% familiar with this building. I do know in this, in this

John McCarthy (6:06)

incident tonight, I know there was a

Christina Ruffini (6:07)

security plan that was developed by the

Michael McCaul (6:08)

Secret Service that the Metropolitan Police Department and I know that security plan did

Host/Interviewer (6:13)

work this evening, leaving many unanswered questions, an empty ballroom and visibly shaken staff left to clean up the mess.

Christina Ruffini (6:21)

Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend, right after this. Getting a tweet here from the president, a post on Truth Social from the President of the United States talking about the prospects of there being a new ballroom at the White House that we've been discussing over the course of the morning. The president brought that up in his comments to the press last night saying what happened last night at the Hilton here in Washington, D.C. is further evidence of the fact there needs to be a space of size at the White House where an event like this could be held. We've talked with Jeff Mason a bit about the complication factors around all of that. That wouldn't be a public venue, of course, but the president here taking issue with the lawsuit that's been filed against the construction of that bar. You see there a very lengthy post. I'm not going to read all of it, but taking that, that litigant to task, suggesting again that this is something that needs to happen and would, would have perhaps prevented what we saw last night.

Host/Interviewer (7:08)

Christina and Jeff, Jeff Mason, in that big block of text, the part that stands out to me is right at the top. And the president says this is the exact, what happened last night is the exact reason our great military, Secret Service, law enforcement and every president for the last 150 years have been demanding that a large, safe and secure ballroom be built on the grounds of the White House. Is that accurate and why is this the thing the president is focused on this morning?

Jeff Mason (7:32)

No, it's not accurate. And it seems almost uncomfortable to have to be fact checking the president on something that is not as important as what happened last night. But he is following a political adage which is never let a good crisis go to waste. And I think that's exemplified in what he said last night and in this particular post. The president's ballroom is going through a whole bunch of legal threats that's really gotten under his skin. He wants to have it built before he leaves office at the end of his second term. There are question marks about that, even as there's a big pile of nothingness where the East Wing used to stand. And he is emphasizing that if this event had been there, if that existed, then there would be more security. But you were right to mention, which I did earlier as well, the ballroom at the White House is not going to be a public ballroom for outside organizations to use. And the White House Correspondents association is an organization of journalists, not of that does not.

Host/Interviewer (8:27)

You can't book it like a wedding venue.

Jeff Mason (8:28)

Correct.

Christina Ruffini (8:29)

Some 12 hours after this incident took place, we're getting more information on what transpired, more information about the suspect, Jeff. And across television this morning, we're hearing from policymakers and politicians who were in attendance at this dinner. We're going to hear from a couple here in just a moment. But Todd Blanche, the acting attorney general, was on Meet the Press this morning talking about that investigation. What did he learn? How does that advance the story as we know it of who this individual is and indeed what the focus of this law enforcement investigation is going to be going forward.

Jeff Mason (8:54)

Just getting a few more details, but not a lot. It's a 31 year old apparently teacher from California who traveled to Washington, D.C. by train. To the extent that that's interesting, we know that he had apparently a shotgun, another gun and multiple knives. He stayed at the hotel at the Washington Hilton, which we were referring to earlier as the Hinckley Hilton, and that is how he had those weapons, but still raising a lot of security questions about how he made it down at least two escalators to get very close to the ballroom before he was taken down.

Host/Interviewer (9:30)

All right, Jeff Mason, thank you so much. And joining us now is Republican Congressman Michael McCaul of Texas. He serves on the Foreign affairs and Homeland Security Committees. He was also our guest at the White House Correspondence Dinner last night. Chairman, first of all, how are you? And the first thing I want to ask you is we spent a lot of time standing in that. Well, after this all happened last night, when you went about the dinner last night, do you think there was enough security there? You've been there before. What was your. What are your thoughts?

Michael McCaul (9:57)

Yeah, it's putting my chairman of Homeland Security hat on. As former counterterrorism federal prosecutor, I would say the Secret Service did an amazing job. Capitol Police escorted the members out in emergency vehicles, but the outer perimeter, if you will, was. Was very free access. It's, it's an open hotel. And I think that was part of the risk involved here if you had to analyze it. It's very difficult to harden that kind of environment when you have the President coming in. What I was sort of amazed you had the president and the vice president at the head table and the speaker. So you had the line of succession right there. If a bomb had gone off or something more dramatic, you know, it would be, it would fall to Chuck Grassley.

Christina Ruffini (10:46)

Amazingly, after this took place, you thanked Secret Service and the Capitol Police for squiring you and your congressional colleagues out of the room. Something Joe Matthew brought up a few minutes ago is what it was like to see those security officials on stage. Yes, with weapons. But then how Secret Service, those law enforcement, knew exactly where everybody was. There was an eerie quiet in this space. But talk a bit about that, what you were thinking as you watched all of that unfold. Because I confess, from where I was sitting, we were beginning to eat. There was some commotion, and then it became very, very quiet in the room.

Michael McCaul (11:16)

Well, I heard three gunshots, so I knew something was horribly rolling. And you're not quite sure what's going to happen after that. Right. And I saw the President being taken off the stage, Secret Service jumping up on the stage with their weapons pointed towards the audience. And it was surreal, you know, like, you know, it's not an ordinary event, unfortunately, it's becoming too commonplace in this country. But they went into action very quickly and escorted the cabinet members out of the room. But you don't know what's going to happen quite after that. I didn't know if we're going to have like an AR15 and a spray of bullets and are we going to be diving under the tables? And fortunately, we heard the three gunshots and that was the end of it. But, you know, this country's getting too violent, you know, and the rhetoric needs to tone down, in my opinion. I was at Texas A and M talking about civility in politics just this last week with Henry Cuellar, a Democrat talking about, you know, how we can agree to disagree, but with civility. And I think last night's a good lesson for all of us. And, you know, amazingly, the press, right? We were celebrating the First Amendment and the freedom of the press, and the press were there, along with Republicans and Democrats all together celebrating our Constitution. And the First Amendment does not allow for political violence.

Host/Interviewer (12:46)

We were talking about the First Amendment, but it often comes into contradiction, it seems, with the Second Amendment, especially when your party votes on issues, they've been very reticent more and more. We were talking about Jim Brady and the Brady Bill. That was the Reagan administration. This is a current Republican climate in which almost any gun control, even logical gun control, is impossible to get past. Is that something your party should reevaluate, given what you just talked about, the heated political rhetoric and the violence that we're seeing?

Michael McCaul (13:13)

You know, it's interesting as I was talking to your CEO right next to me about this very issue before the shooting, when I met with Michael Bloomberg and he donated my campaign. This is many years ago. He said, you're from Texas and you know, where are you on guns, right? And, you know, we were having this conversation that, you know, of course, the weapons purchased, I think he had a. It wasn't like an AR15. It wasn't. I used to prosecute gun cases. A lot of them were stolen. But there has to be a way to. Usually after the fact, flags come up, like, yeah, I knew this guy and I thought there was a problem, but they don't report it until after. And I had to build like a fusion center to capture the red flags and then be able to act beforehand or at least provide more security if there's a threat out there. So I think there is room for improvement here. I don't think you're going to see my party, you know, infringing on the Second Amendment per se. But, you know, there are certain weapons under the 1968 Gun Control act, you know, like fully automatic machine guns or, you know, and that was an outgrowth of, you know, Robert Kennedy. You know, of course, you had John, you know, JFK assassinated in 60s Robert Kennedy, and then you had Martin Luther King, and we had that legislation in 1968. That's the last time we've done that.

Christina Ruffini (14:34)

Chairman Meredith, I mentioned Michael Bloomberg, of course, the majority shareholder of Bloomberg lp, the parent company of Bloomberg News. When I get that out there, I want to ask you about what Homeland Security is going to do next through the Committee on Homeland Security. Will there be an investigation, do you think? What questions do you have about the way in which all of this unfolded? I think a lot of us took note of the way that security was set up. You rightly bring up the fact this was an open hotel, there were guests there totally unaffiliated with this dinner. What do you want to see investigated in terms of what that perimeter was like, how fortified it was?

Michael McCaul (15:04)

I think we have to. We have to take a look at the outer perimeter now, as I understand he was a guest at the hotel. So anytime you have a big event like that, and, you know, it's known as the Hinckley hotel because in 1981, Reagan was shot there. So it has a bit of a checkered past. And so I do think we'll be analyzing that. I think also it just re emphasizes how important it is to fully fund the Department of Homeland Security and stop this nonsense of a shutdown of a very important agency within our federal government

Christina Ruffini (15:37)

still partially shut down.

Michael McCaul (15:38)

It is.

Host/Interviewer (15:39)

What is your take on the appropriateness of the President's true social post that we just saw this morning and everything we've talked about violence, political rhetoric that the President is focusing on building a ballroom. What's your, what's your take on that?

Michael McCaul (15:52)

Well, let me say first, I think his remarks last night were very gracious towards the press, you know, and to both Democrats and Republican alike. I'm glad he took the high road and the rhetoric which I think needs to be addressed, you know, the ballroom, you know, I was in the East Wing, and he pointed to it. It's a big hole in the ground. It's going to have a lot of security features to it in the basement. But I think, as was pointed out earlier, this is a private association. It's not. That's a federal building, essentially. So I don't know. I mean, I think it would certainly be a lot more secure if it was done in a place like that. The next time the President shows up, I think they're going to tighten up security even more so on the outer perimeter. And again, the line of secession all being there at the same time, I think we ought to take a look at that as well.

Host/Interviewer (16:50)

Is that concerning? Is that something Congress should investigate?

Michael McCaul (16:53)

Yeah, of course. I was really shocked that the President and vice President were at the table.

Christina Ruffini (16:59)

Surprise.

Michael McCaul (17:00)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Christina Ruffini (17:02)

I want to go back to the rhetoric, and I'm curious how hotter rhetoric has shaped the way that you approach your job. Is it something that you give more thought to, God forbid something like this were to happen? How has it shaped the way that you and your colleagues in Congress approach the job? We've seen some reticence to attend town hall meetings if they get pretty fractious. Who knows what might happen? What are the consequences on a day to day basis for having the kind of heated rhetoric that we have in this country?

Michael McCaul (17:27)

Well, we're a reflection of the American people and there is a violent rhetoric out there, but we don't have to be an echo chamber for that. And the irony was I was just at this symposium at a university in my district where we talked about this very issue and how it needs. I mean I've been up there 22 years up here and it's changed for the worse. And it's okay to go on social media and say vile things about the other party and other members of Congress and the President.

Host/Interviewer (18:00)

Isn't some of that coming from the top down? Isn't the President partly to blame for that?

Michael McCaul (18:04)

Well, I think we're probably all to blame. And you know what happens when these, when these things occur. Everybody says the right things for a couple of days and then I'll give this a couple weeks and we're going to be right back at, you know, this violent rhetoric out there and it doesn't seem to change. You can't legislate that. That is a conduct issue, it's a moral clarity issue. And I think the institution is weakened and hurt by, and political politics in general are hurt by this violent rhetoric that is out there today. And I hope members do reflect on this. The ones that want their five minutes of fame on YouTube and social media. I hope they reflect. It's not how I conduct myself. I wasn't raised that way. It's on my value system. I show respect for people that have other opinions and that's what democracy is all about. That's what the press, the First Amendment, freedom of speech and press is all about. And we got to respect each other a bit more last night. I've been in war zones in Iraq and Afghanistan. I've heard mortar shells and Ukraine rounds of ammunition. I'm going to Ukraine and this summer and you know, drones and all that kind of stuff. But you don't expect that, you know, at the Hilton hotel in Washington D.C.

Christina Ruffini (19:24)

do you have confidence in who's going to be leading this investigation? Prosecution? So Cash Patel, not somebody who has traditional background for somebody running the FBI. Mark Wayne Mullen just taking this job over his DHS secretary. Should we be at all worried about those individuals capacity to see this through?

Michael McCaul (19:38)

Well, they're the figurehead. I do think like when I was a federal prosecutor, the line FBI agents lying, you know, Secret Service, they've been doing this for many years. They're professional and they know how to conduct this. I'm a little surprised we don't know anything more about the shooter, to be honest with you, other than he took a train, which I think is very strange. He had a couple weapons and knives. You were there last night, Christina. We were at the table together.

Host/Interviewer (20:07)

Yeah.

Michael McCaul (20:08)

Somehow he runs in, gets pretty darn close to the ballroom and then we heard the gunshots. And so, yeah, there are a lot of unanswered questions. I didn't know if it was going to be like in Austin, Texas, we had the property of all Islamist terrorists. You know, does it look like this is that's the case here? And I don't know what motivates somebody to do something like this. And we don't know the answer to that right now.

Host/Interviewer (20:33)

Very quickly, before I let you go, you said you think Congress should look into why all the cabinet officials were there. You know, the last survivor issue. But I'm wondering, you think there should be a congressional investigation into what we've been talking about, how he got that far, the perimeter and the security precautions around the president.

Michael McCaul (20:48)

Oh, 100%. And we will. And I think the Homeland Security Committee will be charged with that responsibility. But I do let's not lose fact that the Secret Service immediately popped up in the room.

Host/Interviewer (21:02)

Yeah.

Michael McCaul (21:02)

Went into action and the Capitol Police. So I'm very proud of what they did.

Host/Interviewer (21:06)

All right. Thank you so much for joining us. Congressman Michael Paul, nice to see you again. Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend right after this.

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Host/Interviewer (24:29)

we want to turn now to Democratic Congressman Don Beyer of Virginia. He serves on the Ways and Means and Joint Economic Committees. Congressman, thank you for coming down. I know I guess up it's been a long day. I know you weren't at the dinner last night, but I also know you know what's going on and you watched it. I just want to get your reactions to what happened and where you think we go from here and if, and what, if anything, Congress should be investigating.

Don Beyer (24:50)

You know, my youth was dominated by the assassination of Dr. President Kennedy, Dr. King Bobby Kennedy. And we had this long, other than the tragic shots at the same hotel with Ronald Reagan, a long period of time with peacefulness. This has really been upsetting. And you find that on Capitol Hill, there's a lot more security all around, metal detectors everywhere, a lot more Capitol Police. They actually put a lot of money in the budget for personal security for members. And now when we do town hall meetings, we're always talking to the local police, making sure there's two or three of them there, just in case.

Host/Interviewer (25:30)

And that's because the rhetoric has gotten so heated.

Don Beyer (25:32)

Exactly. And it's a terrible thing. You know, I don't support much of what President Trump has done, but the last thing I want is for him to be shot.

Christina Ruffini (25:40)

Let me give you a variation on the question I asked the chairman emeritus, the Foreign Affairs Committee. That is, has it affected the way that you go about your job, your awareness of that rhetoric, a sense that something terrible could happen at a town hall or a public event? Is it something you worry about or think about?

Don Beyer (25:55)

I don't worry. I think my wife worries about it more than I do. Also, I don't feel like I'm a particularly high profile in terms of going virtually viral. You know, if I were AOC or Marjorie Taylor Greene, something like that, I'd be much more worried about it.

Host/Interviewer (26:10)

So we have Attorney Attorney General Todd Blanche was on CNN moments ago. We want to play you what he just said.

Christina Ruffini (26:17)

We've got some sound from our preliminary investigation.

David Gura (26:20)

It does appear the suspect was targeting

Don Beyer (26:22)

members of the administration.

Christina Ruffini (26:24)

I don't. I don't want to go beyond that because we don't have specifics yet about

Don Beyer (26:29)

particular members of the administration, except that

Christina Ruffini (26:31)

we do understand that that was his

David Gura (26:33)

goal and his target.

Host/Interviewer (26:35)

He, of course, is the acting AG I want to correct myself there, but what is your take on the fact that he was there to possibly harm not just the president, but members of the administration and the Cabinet? And people who may not be as high profile may be not safe in this climate either.

Don Beyer (26:51)

Although, you know, if you look through different administrations, a lot of Trump's folks think Pete Hegseth or Kash Patel, they're much higher profile than Pam Bondi than they have been in the past. I'm trying to think. Sometimes you reach back and say, who was that person for Barack Obama? Or Joe Biden, we want to talk

Christina Ruffini (27:12)

about what's happened in Virginia politics over the last few weeks, but let me get one more question to you about this, and that is, how would you like to see Congress's role going forward in all of this? So it's early, early hours yet, not even early days yet in this investigation. The suspect likely to be charged on Monday, as we understand it. What's Congress's role here in the wake of what happened yesterday?

Don Beyer (27:31)

You know, the very first thing, David, I'd say is that we continue to try to improve our rhetoric, you know, that we're the country. One of the things that most upsets me is that we are more divided than we've ever been, maybe back to the Civil War. We seem to have different understandings of who we are in our factories, our. Our understanding of our history. So the notion of treating each other with respect, even though we could have very different policy approaches, seems to still be essential to that.

Host/Interviewer (27:56)

Should Congress be investigating either why so many members within the line of succession were in the same room or the security apparatus and how this all happened?

Don Beyer (28:05)

I was really concerned when I saw Marco Rubio and the vice president and the president. That's really concerning. I know it shouldn't just be one person that that could take over.

Host/Interviewer (28:14)

Should you be investigating that? Should Congress investigate that?

Don Beyer (28:17)

Well, that would be a good oversight thing for sure. On Ways and Means, I tend not to thinking more about the tariffs and the taxes.

Christina Ruffini (28:25)

Fair enough and plenty to think about there. We can talk about that in a minute as well. But let's talk about redistricting and what's happening in Virginia. Indeed, what stalled for the moment in Virginia. I was saying during the break, I was on vacation, traveling through Virginia, and the signs were everywhere. Vote yes, vote no.

Host/Interviewer (28:39)

Oh, really?

Christina Ruffini (28:39)

Yes on this, on this referendum. A few days I still get taken down. It did pass, what your governor had pushed for here, this redistricting that was advantageous for Democrats. Now it's a standstill as Republicans have filed a lawsuit against it. Where does it stand? How do you see all of this playing out? And I don't need to point out we're getting closer and closer here to the midterm elections.

Don Beyer (29:00)

Well, I was glad that it passed with some reluctance. We passed a constitutional amendment four or five years ago getting rid of gerrymandering. So we had the least gerrymandered districts in the country before this. But after Donald Trump said he was entitled to five seats in Texas, it took three in North Carolina, two in Ohio, one Coming up in Missouri, Florida is about to meet. I think to do the same thing, we felt we had to push back and we got 3 million people showed up. It was gubernatorial style turnout for an election in April and it didn't pass by lot 3%. That's 90,000 votes. And now, you know, in a perfect Democratic world is 10 Democrats and one Republican. But that's not a given. We still have to go win those seats and we'll be running in many cases against Republican incumbents who've been there many years and have deep relationships in the community.

Host/Interviewer (29:51)

But I do want to ask you, as we talk about turning down the political rhetoric, it is very hard to get elected as a moderate in Congress right now, partly because of the way these districts are drawn to and the way voters are mobilized that they tend to vote for the extremes of the party, which is why initially Democrats were the, you know, when they go low, we go high party. Is there could there be a potential backlash to changing tactics here and that the things you say that we should have in Congress might be harder to get?

Don Beyer (30:20)

There could be a backlash. But Christine, you go to something that's been really important to me my 11 years in Congress, which is the notion that you have so many safe seats that Democrats have to run to the left in their primary, Republicans run to the right. We typically worry about who's going to take us out in the primary, not in the general election. And that then means when you come to Congress, there's no overlap. When I was a kid, there were lots of very conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans that are. You don't have many of them anymore. Not to get nerdy on you, but there's.

Host/Interviewer (30:48)

We love nerdy. This is Bloomberg.

Leslie Shedd (30:49)

Bring it on.

David Gura (30:50)

Okay.

Don Beyer (30:50)

A Fair Representation act, which I've been pushing for 11 years, takes us back to multi member districts which we had for the first 60 years in America and ranked choice voting. And that then makes you Northern Virginia that I represent would have three districts and you'd be fighting for the middle rather than the extreme it would hopefully bring. Also, you end up, not that you don't want to have the extremes, the Marjorie Taylor Greenes and the like, but it should get cut off those ends and bring people back together.

Christina Ruffini (31:19)

You mentioned your own ways and means. You're also the senior Democrat on the Joint Economic Committee. We just got news that Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina is prepared to go ahead with voting for Kevin Warsh because of what's happened with the investigation into Jerome Powell and the Federal Reserve. Your reaction to that. I wonder if you are a supporter of Kevin Warsh's candidacy for that position and also just your reaction to the way that all of this has unfolded, both the investigation on the Justice Department side and now it being punted over to the IG at the Federal Reserve.

Don Beyer (31:46)

Well, I'm thrilled that they've withdrawn the case against Jay Powell. It was silly to begin with. If you look at cost overruns, there are so many in the federal government for many, many different reasons. And the thought that blaming him for it was pretty ridiculous. I'm so glad that Senator Tillis had stood up for that. And for Kevin, worse. It's interesting you look at his history. He was largely a deficit hawk and somebody that believed in managing higher interest rates. So. And I was very pleased with his testimony saying that he wasn't going to be a sock buffet for Donald Trump.

Host/Interviewer (32:22)

But do you think this is enough for Powell to step away? Because as we've been talking about here, there's no guarantee that they can't restart this investigation. He could do what the president wants him to do and then still end up facing these charges.

Don Beyer (32:34)

Yeah, as we've seen with so many of these investigations, once you get to a grand jury, they throw it out right away. You know, there's a lot, a lot of this is showmanship that and it does have it costs the poor person that's being persecuted, you know, dollars and anxiety, of course. So it's unfair. And the going after political enemies, whether it's a Democrat or Republican, is a bad thing.

Christina Ruffini (32:58)

You again, Joint Economic Committee have a great vantage on this US Economy, its place in the global economy. This war is continuing, lasting longer than the president said it would. And we've heard so many warning signs from our guests, policymakers and experts about what the fallout has been so far and what it's likely to be. As we see in Asia, parts of the world, real difficulty in getting oil, getting refined fuel, products and fertilizer. All that's going to have your sense of what this means for the economy, how worried you are about the prospects of a war that lasts longer and longer.

Don Beyer (33:30)

Well, I think one of the main reasons Donald Trump got elected was because of all the inflation during COVID which is during Biden. And his tariffs have moved us in the wrong direction. And then the war is going to a huge impact on both grocery prices and fuel I'm paying in Northern Virginia. It's only 499.

Michael McCaul (33:49)

Only.

Christina Ruffini (33:50)

Only.

Don Beyer (33:51)

Yeah, that and it could get worse. However, big picture, I still very much believe in the American economy. There was an awful lot of interesting things going on, including, and I know Mike and I, your previous guest co chair of the caucus, there's so much good coming out of AI, including 5% productivity growth in the last quarter and so much danger because of the real plausibility of huge job displacement.

Christina Ruffini (34:16)

You're studying it, weren't you? I remember that you were like studying. I'm still getting a master's or something.

Don Beyer (34:20)

Yeah, I still get nine courses to go out George Mason, but I'm working on it.

Host/Interviewer (34:23)

So we only have a tiny bit of time. But when it comes to spiking energy prices, this is all coming into focus with what's going on in Iran and there's a crunch on supply and demand. Everything else. As you look towards the midterms, as you look towards November, you talk about those kitchen table issues and how they got President Trump into office. Will Democrats take advantage of that and will this help you going into the fall?

Don Beyer (34:46)

Oh, I think so. You know, things look very good right now, but it's April and a week's a long time in politics. But we have many seats. We think we can take relatively few that we need to defend. And with the president's disapproval rating at 58%, this is potentially waive election. Although you look back to Charlie Cook, he said wave elections tend to follow wave elections one way or the other. So there aren't that. We have to temper our expectations. And really you only need three or four seats.

Christina Ruffini (35:15)

Gentleman from the 8th congressional district of Virginia, Don Beyer. Thank you very much for joining us. Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend right after this.

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Christina Ruffini (38:12)

here to discuss more is Rise in Communications founder and former Republican congressional adviser Leslie Shedd and former senior adviser for political engagement during the Biden administration, John McCarthy. Great to have both of you with us. We're we saw you at the dinner last night and John, let me start with you. I'm kind of piecing together each of our own experience of what unfolded there. And I'm curious, sort of where you were in the room and the degree to which in the moment you had an understanding of what was happening. What unfolded after that?

John McCarthy (38:36)

Well, I don't think that anybody in the moment had any, you know, clear picture of what was going on. Obviously it being a room full of journalists, people kind of then once the activities stopped, went around the room and kind of started comparing notes. And I think I heard about six different retellings of what had actually transpired I was sitting at the back of the room, kind of by the door, where a lot of the main central activity occurred. And my face was to the door. And at the time you saw agents kind of come out of that door, you'd hear gunshots. And at that point, people dropped to the table pretty quickly. It's obviously a very crowded ballroom. And, you know, people watching don't always know, but you don't actually know a lot of the people you're sitting around necessarily. So about half your table's kind of under the table, under the tablecloths. Other people have their heads down. That transpires for a couple of minutes, probably, and then folks kind of started to put their heads up, and then there ended up being a lot more kind of noise coming from the center of the room, which, in retrospect, was probably the detailees being kind of removed from the room.

Christina Ruffini (39:29)

Cabinet members.

John McCarthy (39:30)

Exactly. And then the thing that really amazed me is kind of once that seemed to clear, I mean, there was no kind of announcement that everything had cleared. But the thing that kind of amazed me is once you. You're looking up for a second, you look around the room, and I mean, I spent four years in the last administration, and I have always been so amazed by the Secret Service. I mean, without missing a beat, I mean, they stood up and physically stood in front of the president, which I am always amazed by them. And then I was really amazed by the journalists in the room. The fact that they were able to kind of stand up and just start muscle memory, you know, kicking in, start doing their job again, I thought was pretty remarkable. And, you know, people sometimes give this dinner and this weekend a little flack, but. But, you know, as you looked around the room and saw those people kind of stepping in and doing what they're supposed to do in that moment, they kind of reminded you that what they're doing is very important and that a lot of the people who do it are very good at it.

Host/Interviewer (40:15)

And you also said, we've been talking about the other folks who helped make that dinner happen, including all the back of House staff. And you said at some point you saw them with their hands up or.

John McCarthy (40:22)

Yeah, in the kind of rooms that kind of open up off the ballroom, a couple of the doors flung open. And it looked at, you know, at some point that they were kind of being held in kind of a security, like, posture. And that was pretty alarming, too, because at this point, you didn't know what was happening at all. You didn't know if someone was still in the room, you know, you didn't know how many. And again, no one sits and says, okay, now you're clear. Feel free to move about. So it was kind of a jarring posture. And, you know, a lot of the people in that room are probably used to being around, you know, protected individuals, situations like this. Obviously, a lot of the journalists were there for the incident in Pennsylvania with President Trump and January 6, but for these people who are there just to kind of support this function, I've been going to the dinner for years, and I've actually really enjoyed talking to a lot of the wait staff there because they actually take such a point of pride in working there. I actually remember a couple years ago, there was this one man who was a waiter there, and I was asking him how many of these he'd worked at, and he actually went back in and pulled out a bunch of the old programs that he kept there with him, because he always took it as such a point of pride that he gets to kind of work at this historic event. And it really, when you step back for a second, it is exactly what Washington is supposed to be in the sense of it should be about mutual respect. It should be about lowering the temperature and finding kind of comedy in difficult times. So, I mean, again, every kind of player in it, from the waitstaff to the journalists in the room, kind of all ended up doing what they were supposed to do. And it does kind of give you some hope and humanity in pretty difficult times.

Christina Ruffini (41:43)

Leslie, I want to ask you about rhetoric. So there have been these calls to tone down the rhetoric. I mean, I think the conversation about rhetoric began before the event itself. There were a lot of people wondering what tack the President would take giving this speech to the White House Correspondents association and its guests, given he hadn't gone to the dinner before, given what he said to the press before. There was a marked change in his tone last night when he did speak to the press in the briefing room. He was very gracious to the president of the association and also somewhat jokingly, said he couldn't give the speech that he intended to give after what had happened. It's maybe folly to kind of look at a moment like this and predict whether it's going to change things. But does it feel like this is a moment when there's the prospect of change in the way that people of differing views get along?

Leslie Shedd (42:24)

Yes. I mean, I would love to see that. Right. Civility in our conversation. It seems to be gone, and it's really frustrating and scary when you work in politics. To think I can't go to a party with my friends without having to walk, walk through magnometers and have Secret Service and police and roads closed off everywhere just so that we can get together and celebrate the First Amendment. I mean, it's just a really. It's a scary time. I will say one of the things that stood out to me last night with the president's remarks was when he said, you know, it wasn't a Trump event. There were Republicans there, there were Democrats there, conservatives, liberals, members of the media. We were all gathered there together to celebrate the First Amendment. And this horrible thing happened. And it's just, it's scary to me more than anything.

Host/Interviewer (43:12)

But, you know, Mike McCall, your former boss, you know, this a long time, we just swapped you out of these seats. He was saying that this is not something you can legislate. And there is a point to that. So what do you do? You're a realist. You've been in this town a long time, but you guys are on opposite ends and are very close friends. Yeah. What do you do? Does it have to come from. From the top down, or could Republicans in Congress take the lead on this? And will they?

Leslie Shedd (43:34)

I have to, like, I don't want to not place blame on different politicians and people in D.C. for sure, there are definitely some politicians that have not great rhetoric on both sides of the aisle. But, you know, you just said that John and I are friends. I have a lot of friends that are Democrats. Republicans and Democrats get along here. This is our city. We all work together, we all live together. I do think that there's a lot of camaraderie between Republicans, Democrats, journalists, you know, people that work here and that what you see online often are people that don't know anything about DC They've never been here before. They see something online and they want to be a part of a conversation or they have a specific, you know, idea about something and they go off the rails. This guy came from California. So, you know, I think that the congressman's right. They're trying to legislate the way that somebody thinks. And especially in a country that prioritizes free speech, it's going to be hard. I do think that, you know, we want to see more leaders out there trying to lower the tone of the rhetoric. And, you know, Congressman McCaul is a perfect example of that. I think he mentioned this. He was just at a big event like last week, I think, in Texas with Henry Cuellar talking about the importance of bipartisanship and civility. Yeah.

John McCarthy (44:49)

And I mean, I hope that that's true. I think there's kind of two issues at hand here, the first of which is there's not really a political reward for being a centrist and being kind of a, you know, not that flashy, not that exciting elected official.

Host/Interviewer (45:01)

That's true. And that's not what and we're partly to blame for this as well, because that's not what we pick up. We don't.

John McCarthy (45:06)

That was the second point. Exactly. I was going to say that's part of the problem, whether it's the media or the algorithms, it doesn't reward someone who wants to sit and say, have you read my substantive white paper paper on this issue? Instead, it's the kind of snappy soundbite that gets the political reward in the end. So, you know, I think that these elected officials need to step up and remember that they are really elected to be in many ways chief citizens. But simultaneously, both the media and of course, the tech platforms, et cetera, need to also recognize that they play an important moderating force in all of this, too.

Christina Ruffini (45:32)

John will read your snappy white paper on whatever issue you've got.

Host/Interviewer (45:34)

David Gura reads all of the snappy white papers. John McCarthy, Leslie said, hang on. We're going to keep keep you here. Actually, we got to go to break, but we want to keep talking to you more about all of this because a lot to break down and we do want to talk, we want you to fight, but we want to talk a little bit about some of the contentious issues going on on the Hill. We are still in a partial government shutdown. We've got a Fed chair, We've got a whole bunch of other stuff. And the king is going to visit. So we want to discuss all of this. So stay in your seats. And you at home, please stay in your seats. Bloomberg this weekend. We'll be right back on all the platforms. Stick with us this morning.

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Christina Ruffini (49:11)

welcome back to Bloomberg this week. I'm David Gurr with Christina Rufino. We have John McCarthy and Leslie Shedd with us again at the as well. John, let me start with you on what's just transpired over the last hour. That is Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina has dropped his opposition to the nomination of Kevin Warsh. He had blocked it in protest because of what had been happening with the Department of Justice and Jerome Powell. He writes in a statement that he's posted on X with the assurances that he's gotten. I look forward to supporting Kevin Warsh's confirmation. He's an outstanding nominee. And it's time for the Federal Reserve to move beyond this distraction and return its full attention to its mission. Curious for your reaction broadly, but more specifically your reaction to this emboldened Thom Tillis, who, yes, is outgoing, his days are numbered as senator from North Carolina. But what is his attitude toward this, the way that he's approached this, say to you about the way that lawmakers perhaps more broadly could take a stand in a way that they haven't in recent months and years?

John McCarthy (50:04)

Yeah, I mean, outgoing lawmakers tend to be, some of them emboldened. Emboldened, yes. But they also, you, you know, are the most ones open to dealmaking. When I was back in the Biden administration when we were looking towards the bipartisan infrastructure law, the senators who are really available to us are no longer serving. By and large, they're the ones who are willing to kind of cross the aisle, get a couple things done and they're thinking about their legacy. The only thing I would caution here is that assurances tend to not last very long. Inside of the Trump administration, I think we saw a lot of assurances given around the nomination of Secretary Kennedy. We've heard people kind of speak out since saying that they were a little concerned about some of his actions since. So I don't know, you know, what these assurances were, but I don't know that I would, you know, take them to the bank if I were the senator.

Host/Interviewer (50:44)

Leslie, I want to get your take on why this happened, why the DOJ backed off this investigation because the president had gone really hard on this despite members of his own party saying you are, you know, as my mother would say, cutting off your nose despite your face. You have a long term goal. This is going be to complicated. Why was he so set on this in the first place and what do you think ultimately changed his mind?

Leslie Shedd (51:04)

Well, I want to start by saying I am here for Thom Tillis's YOLO like moment right now. I honestly just can't wait to see what happens next on this one because, you know, he's funny and he cares about stuff and he's not afraid to, you know, hold people's feet to the fire. You know, I'm a lawyer too. I like to say I play a lawyer on tv. But you, you know, I think if you go through and look at the case it just wasn't a strong case. And attorneys can actually get in trouble if they are pursuing cases like aggressively over time where they just don't have the evidence to back that up. So I'd be willing to bet is probably a little bit to do with that. Probably definitely to do with the Kevin Moore nomination. I personally thought always that this was a bit of a distraction. We've got a really big election coming up in November, so that and I really like to see, you know, the president and the administration be 100% focused on that right now.

Christina Ruffini (51:56)

We were talking about gerrymandering what happened in Virginia a couple of weeks back. And I'm curious how you see the evolution of this story. So Florida is poised perhaps to do some of this itself. But I think a warning that we got early on was if Republicans initially were to start doing this, it would be this kind of tit for tat thing. And low it seems to have been that. Where do you see all of this leading this conversation about the way that states side?

Leslie Shedd (52:18)

Yeah, I saw, I think, no offense to John, but I think that there was kind of a belief among Republicans that Democrats would roll over because they had been for quite several months at the beginning of the administration, several years,

John McCarthy (52:31)

perhaps the Democratic Party right there.

Host/Interviewer (52:33)

Look at this agreement.

Leslie Shedd (52:34)

Anyway, so, you know, I think what we're at a wash kind of right now, right? Like 10 seats for Democrats, nine seats for Republicans. I go back again to, you know, I just feel like this is a bit of a distraction. It's taking time away from people. It's taking money away, it's taking political capital away that I would rather be seen invested in races that we need to try to protect members that we already have as well as really great candidates that we've got coming up. And, you know, I know there's a lot of attention paid to these federal races, but we've got a lot of really great governors candidates, attorneys general candidates. There's going to be a lot of interesting races this November. So.

Host/Interviewer (53:13)

All right, we've got about two minutes left.

John McCarthy (53:15)

Yeah.

Leslie Shedd (53:15)

Okay.

Host/Interviewer (53:16)

Yeah, no, go ahead.

John McCarthy (53:16)

I would just say it actually exemplifies the tension that's in the Democratic Party right now because, you know, this is something that Democrats would largely not be for. Right. Democrats have overwhelmingly each Congress introduced a lot of good government bills, from money out of politics to independent redistricting. But there's also this new lane of the party that's telling them that they want their nominee to fight more. So I think that this is playing out in a really weird way where Democrats are trying to find their new footing in this new generation. And I think that's why you're seeing some of the kind of, you know, outside groups come in and support with such vigor some of these independent redistricting efforts, you know, reforms, but, you know, these kind of more partisan efforts in

Leslie Shedd (53:50)

practice, trying to correct the overcorrection. Right. With Joe Biden that was this overcorrection, I think, to President Trump and trying to figure out this new happy medium. How can they be, you know, against the way that they don't like the way the president speaks or his policies, but still be interesting and, you know, get attention.

John McCarthy (54:07)

Exactly.

Host/Interviewer (54:08)

We've got a very short jump ball here when it comes to kitchen table issues and the midterms and November. Which party is going to do it better?

John McCarthy (54:16)

Easily? Democrats. The Republican Party. The Republican Party's not been able to focus on this since they got here. I mean, the president had a mandate to lower costs and I mean, take your pick. Ballroom wars, immigration, know, foreign invasions, you know, none of that is bringing down costs.

Christina Ruffini (54:29)

I don't need those. The mentalist here to figure this one out.

Leslie Shedd (54:31)

But Leslie, Republicans, you know, and I know, I know everybody's surprised.

Michael McCaul (54:36)

Right.

Leslie Shedd (54:36)

But I think too the biggest reason is that Republicans have a record to run on right now. I just see a lot of anti Trump stuff for Democrats and, you know, not a lot of ideas.

Christina Ruffini (54:45)

Leslie Shed, John McCarthy, thanks to both of you for joining us here on this Sunday after what was a eventful and difficult weekend for for a lot of folks. Appreciate your perspective here on this Sunday morning.

Host/Interviewer (54:56)

Thanks for joining us on today's Bloomberg this Weekend podcast. Don't forget to tune in live for the show every Saturday and Sunday morning starting at 7am Eastern.

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