Celebrating America 250: BTW at The Intrepid

Summary

Podcast Summary: Bloomberg This Weekend – Celebrating America 250: BTW at The Intrepid

Date: July 4, 2026
Hosts: David Gura, Christina Raffini, Lisa Mateo
Featured Guests: Ken Burns (documentary filmmaker), Governor Wes Moore (Maryland), Brittany Spanos (music journalist), Kathleen Squires (food writer)
Recording Location: Aboard the Intrepid Museum, New York City

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Overview

This special Independence Day episode of Bloomberg This Weekend commemorates America’s 250th anniversary with in-depth and celebratory conversations about U.S. history, patriotism, pop culture, and unique traditions. Broadcasting live from the Intrepid Museum in New York, the show features discussions with renowned documentary filmmaker Ken Burns, Maryland Governor Wes Moore, pop music journalist Brittany Spanos, and food writer Kathleen Squires. Segments cover the multifaceted history of America, the evolution and status of patriotism and the American Dream, celebrity culture’s new heights, and the delicious details behind a Fourth of July staple—hot dogs.

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Section 1: Revisiting American History with Ken Burns

[02:24 – 13:43]

Key Discussion Points

• Complexity Beneath the Myths

  • Ken Burns criticizes the standard, sanitized teaching of American history, emphasizing how the Revolution is more violent and nuanced than typically presented.

  • He highlights the economic, social, and human elements—the roles of women, children, and non-elite individuals in the nation’s founding.

    “I was taught a kind of superficial, top down, kind of sanitized, almost Madison Avenue, bloodless, gallant story…But I found that more complicated story that much more inspirational and, and obviously more interesting.”
    — Ken Burns [02:36]

• Making History Accessible

  • The idea that “great men” alone founded America is disparaged—Burns notes the value in humanizing figures like Washington, while revealing the broad involvement of ordinary people.

  • His new PBS documentary on the American Revolution aims to make the Founders relatable and examine the involvement of all Americans.

    “You don’t want your sense of George Washington just being the marble statue out there collecting pigeon, you know what, in the park, you get to know him as a human being. He’s dimensional…You know his flaws, but you also know his unbelievable strengths.”
    — Ken Burns [06:45]

• Finding Strength in Our Origin Story

  • Burns argues division is part of America’s DNA and reverting to origin stories in times of crisis gives perspective and resilience.

    “We’re way more divided during our revolution than we are now… What happens when you’re in crisis, you want to go back as an individual and…ask you very first thing, where’d you come from? Who are your parents? What’s your origin story?”
    — Ken Burns [09:14]

• PBS, Storytelling, and Political Polarization

  • Burns discusses PBS funding challenges, avoiding partisanship, and why a nuanced, long-term view of history is needed for all Americans, regardless of background or politics.

    “We don’t have a political ax to grind. I’ve taken stuff out because I don’t want it to be misinterpreted as somehow a political commentary. And that’s why we’ve attracted people young and old, both sides of the aisle.”
    — Ken Burns [11:01]

Notable Quotes

• “It’s the most important event since the birth of Christ.”
  — Ken Burns [08:12]

• “A good story is a good story, is a good story. And may I say, there’s no better story than the story of how we came into being.”
  — Ken Burns [13:40]

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Section 2: Reflections on Patriotism & the American Dream with Governor Wes Moore

[16:43 – 29:30]

Key Discussion Points

• Patriotism as Service, Not Partisanship

  • Moore frames patriotism as a nonpartisan, active commitment involving both military service and public good, from healthcare workers to conductors of the Underground Railroad.

    “Patriotism is not political and patriotism is not partisan…Are you willing to fight for the hope of something that you might not even see yourself, but you are doing it because hopefully future generations will be able to benefit from the work that you have done?”
    — Gov. Wes Moore [18:35]

• The Status and Challenges of the American Dream

  • Moore acknowledges public skepticism about the attainability of the American Dream due to inequality and economic hardship, but insists on the importance of resilience and collective effort.

    “That skepticism can serve as my companion, but I won’t let it become my captor.”
    — Gov. Wes Moore [20:22]

• Opportunity as Earned, Not Given

  • Discussing his initiatives—mass pardons for non-violent cannabis offenses, wage increases, business expansion—Moore highlights the need for sustained effort and policy to expand opportunity.

    “This country has always been littered [with] times of inconsistency and pain and heartbreak… But it was the people who were never willing to give up are the reasons that we are, are here now to this day.”
    — Gov. Wes Moore [22:17]

• States’ Powers and Federalism

  • Moore defends the importance of state-level action and the constitutional balance, citing improvements in Maryland achieved by state and local collaboration.

    “The beauty of the Constitution is that actually a lot of the powers do not fall within the federal government. A lot of powers fall within the state government and it’s important for governors to never lose sight of that.”
    — Gov. Wes Moore [24:35]

• Democratic Leadership and Vision

  • Pushing for a results-oriented approach over labels or internal party divisions, Moore emphasizes moral leadership, action, and urgency.

    “We gotta stop being a place of no and slow and start being a place of yes and now.”
    — Gov. Wes Moore [26:50]

Memorable Moments

• Moore, Maryland’s first Black governor, giving his milestone Independence Day address from a building “…partially built by the hands of enslaved people”—a personal reminder of American progress amid ongoing work. [21:09]

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Section 3: Celebrity Culture and the American “Royal Wedding” (Taylor Swift & Travis Kelce)

[32:29 – 38:37]

Key Discussion Points

• The Swift–Kelce Phenomenon

  • Journalist Brittany Spanos discusses the massive, public-facing, and uniquely American celebrity wedding of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce at Madison Square Garden.

    “This is a very new type of relationship for Taylor…It is very public facing…they do the very celebrity couple things which she really hasn’t ever done with any of her past partners.”
    — Brittany Spanos [33:20]

• America’s Fascination with Celebrity as Royalty

  • With the absence of monarchy, Spanos and the hosts argue that America’s biggest celebrities fill a similar cultural role.

    “We don’t have royal weddings here. Is that why we care about this?”
    — Christina Raffini [34:05]

• Fandom in American Life

  • Spanos draws parallels between intense pop fandom and America’s broader social landscape, where fierce, almost tribal loyalty to celebrities, teams, or politicians mirrors the dynamics of political partisanship.

    “It does feel like such a product of the Internet age…that anonymity of the Internet with the network that you’re building…makes the fandom even more intense, even more kind of parasocial.”
    — Brittany Spanos [37:14]

• Privacy and Crafting Image

  • Taylor Swift’s balance between privacy and public narrative is explored, with Spanos noting her unique brand-building and media savvy.

    “She doesn’t shy away from the fame of it all…she kind of finds that semi happy medium.”
    — Brittany Spanos [35:46]

• Pop Star Academics

  • Spanos teaches a college course on Taylor Swift, joining the likes of other contemporary pop icons in academic study (Beyoncé, Bad Bunny). [38:20]

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Section 4: Coney Island, Hot Dogs & Food Culture

[41:46 – 51:12]

Key Discussion Points

• Coney Island’s Enduring Legacy

  • Lisa Mateo reports live from Coney Island, recounting its storied history and the modern-day spectacle of the Nathan’s Famous Hot Dog Eating Contest, drawing crowds locally and worldwide.

• Hot Dog History, Rankings, & Tasting

  • Food writer Kathleen Squires discusses her all-beef hot dog ranking for Wirecutter, judging on snap/texture, flavor, spice balance, and appearance.

    “The snap of the hot dog is the number one thing that matters. That nice, like texture when you bite into it and it snaps. That’s what a hot dog should be all about.”
    — Kathleen Squires [46:18]

• Regional Diversity: Toppings and Styles

  • Sabrett is crowned the top New York dog. The panel explores regional types, including Seattle’s “butterflied” hot dog with cream cheese and jalapenos. The hot dog’s adaptability and individualism are presented as distinctly American traits.

    “Hot dogs are so American because think about their history. They came here via immigrants… And then because Americans are such individualists, we all across the nation put our own spins on them.”
    — Kathleen Squires [50:08]

• Tasting & Preferences

  • Squires, a “mustard only gal,” prefers grilling. The panel notes the endless variety, including turkey, pork, and tofu hot dogs.

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Episode Highlights: Quotes & Timestamps

• Ken Burns:
  “We’re born in violence. That’s the one thing we don’t want to…talk about. The American Revolution is incredibly bloody…There’s a lot of economics going on here…It’s all going on there in the midst of…what is the most significant revolution in the history of humankind.” [02:36]

• Gov. Wes Moore:
  “While that skepticism is real and justified…That skepticism can serve as my companion, but I won’t let it become my captor.” [20:22]

• Brittany Spanos:
  “It’s really the pillars of celebrity culture in America. Right. It’s a football star, pop star…It’s kind of the very prom king and queen vibe.” [34:25]

• Kathleen Squires:
  “The snap of the hot dog is the number one thing that matters.” [46:18]
  “Hot dogs are so American because…Americans are such individualists. We all across the nation put our own spins on them.” [50:08]

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Table of Noteworthy Segments

| Segment Theme | Guest | Highlight/Timestamp | |-------------------------------------|------------------------|-----------------------------------| | Re-examining the Revolution | Ken Burns | [02:36],[06:45],[08:12],[13:40] | | Patriotism & Opportunity | Gov. Wes Moore | [18:35],[20:22],[22:17],[24:35] | | American Dream—Tensions & Policy | Gov. Wes Moore | [21:09],[26:50],[28:50] | | Celebrity Power & Fandom | Brittany Spanos | [33:20],[34:25],[35:46],[37:14] | | Hot Dog History, Coney Island | Kathleen Squires | [46:18],[47:19],[48:01],[50:08] |

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Tone and Takeaway

Throughout, the episode is warm, lively, and deeply engaged with the stories and traditions that define both the weighty and whimsical sides of American life. From scrutinizing historical myths to celebrating collective identity, analyzing the politics of the present, unpacking celebrity spectacle, and debating the best hot dogs—this is a portrait of America at 250: proud, diverse, questioning, celebratory, and always evolving.

Transcript

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[Christina Raffini]

Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts

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Radio News welcome to the Bloomberg this Weekend Podcast with David Gura, Christina Raffini and Lisa Mateo.

[Christina Raffini]

Thanks for joining us for today's selection of conversations from the show.

[David Gura]

You can listen to our favorite discussions right here on the podcast, but also make sure to join us live every Saturday and Sunday morning starting at 7am Eastern.

[Lisa Mateo]

We're on Bloomberg Television Radio and the Bloomberg Business App bringing you unique takes and in depth interviews on news, politics, lifestyle, culture.

[David Gura]

Few people have managed to tell the American story better spanning all of its history than documentary filmmaker Ken Burns.

[Christina Raffini]

That's right, we spoke to the Brooklyn native and Emmy Award winner to get his perspective on this moment in American history.

[Ken Burns]

I was taught a kind of superficial, top down, kind of sanitized, almost Madison Avenue, bloodless, gallant story. And that's okay to begin with, but I found that more complicated story that much more inspirational and, and obviously more interesting, you know, we're born in violence. That's the one thing we don't want to, you know, talk about. We accept the violence of the Civil war and the 20th century wars we've been in, but the American Revolution is incredibly bloody. Revolution and Civil War and also perhaps the fifth global war over the prize of North America. There's a lot of economics going on here between the 13 colonies that Britain has in the Caribbean that are based on slavery. The less profitable North American ones though, Virginia and South Carolina, trade obviously, obviously, tariffs, obviously, taxation, obviously representation, obviously, inflation, obviously devaluation. It's all going on there in the midst of, you know, what is the most significant revolution in the history of humankind.

[Christina Raffini]

I do think that's a good point because I don't know what it is about reaching middle age. You suddenly get an undying affinity for history. But I was watching your series and reading up on the revolution and it does seem to have been a much bloodier occasion than we were really led to believe or we were taught. Why do you think that is?

[Ken Burns]

I think it's to protect the big ideas that are coming out of Philadelphia. Somehow we think they're going to be diminished, but they're not. In fact, they're even bigger when you realize the chances, the odds at Lexington and Concord on April 19, 1775 were zero. And suddenly, six and a half years later, not so much. Suddenly a very long bloody war. They're 100%. How you, how we got there, who was involved, who were the characters we know, the top down people. But they're presented to us as these kind of perfect marble and therefore they're not accessible. If you make them human and dimensional, then they're suddenly accessible. We can be like them, but we can also find out that there's scores of other people that we introduce you to who are teenagers, little girls, French soldiers, American GIs, if you will, women, 50% of the population. They're there at every battle as our children. It is an amazing, amazing story. And how we beat one of the great powers, the most far flung empire on earth, Great Britain is one of the marvel and with ideas that had never been tested. No. Everybody was a subject under authoritarian rule. And all of a sudden we were suggesting, nope, you could be a citizen. It's as powerful it could get. And it's something to really celebrate on the fourth 250 years is a magnificent achievement. To have gotten there. And I think even in times of division, you want to go back and find out your Origin story that helps you sort of figure out where you are, you know, where you come down on the big questions, you know, and

[Christina Raffini]

maybe because that story is more multifaceted than we may have initially been taught. I know your new series, the American Revolution, it's centered on all of this but the setting of the Declaration of Independence. We have a quick clip and then I'm going to ask you another question. The American revolutionary movement served as a model for freedom from oppression.

[Ken Burns]

America is predicated on an idea that tells us who we are, where we came from, and what our forebears were

[Maryland Governor Wes Moore]

willing to die for.

[David Gura]

Collins said, no taxation without rub, representation. The fear was, if we give in to this precedent, what will they do in the future?

[Brittany Spanos]

Crisis changes people.

[Ken Burns]

It gave different people different ideas about what they should be doing.

[Christina Raffini]

It gave them a space to make this democracy real.

[David Gura]

The founders thought, we can start over again.

[Ken Burns]

We can begin the world anew.

[Christina Raffini]

One of the other predominant narratives when we learn this as kids is it's all these great men. You know, it's a handful of great men who did this. But in your documentary, and as I'm learning more about it, it was great men, but it was also all of us. It was everyone. It was all kinds of regular people. Do you think that's why the documentary has been so popular? We were talking before we came on about the response to this.

[Ken Burns]

Well, the response has just been stunning, and yes, I think it is. Everybody likes a complicated story. Everybody likes, you know, Yellowstone with all its characters. And what you don't want is to have your sense of George Washington just being the marble statue out there collecting pigeon, you know what? In the park, you get to know him as a human being. He's dimensional. And despite the fact that we have 400 first person voices read by 60 one of the finest actors in the world, bringing to life these people, including all of the other folks that are never mentioned in our textbook. In the end, one of the more exhilarating parts of this is you get to say we don't have a country without George Washington. And you begin to understand. You know his flaws, but you also know his unbelievable strengths. And so much of what we're going to be celebrating on Saturday comes and issues from his humility, his great powers of persuasion, to have men fight in the dark of night and to fight for a cause that nobody had ever championed before in the history of humankind, to make people from New Hampshire and Georgia realize they were from the same country, not different countries as they thought, to defer to Congress and then at the height of his military power to give that up and the height of his political power to give that up. And even George the Third, he's not the crazy person that we think from Hamilton in our textbook, but, but a really interesting monarch says, well if he did that George Washington, then he is the greatest character of the age. And guess what?

[IBM Representative]

He is.

[Ken Burns]

And so all of these revelations, just about the so called ordinary people, the bottom up folks who are making this possible, but also those top down, bold face male names that are there at Philadelphia deserve complexion, deserve compl. Deserve to understand what's going on in their lives personally and what they are flawed flaws, warts and all. Nobody's perfect. And the idea that we've made our founders perfect has then made it harder for us to actually get inside the revolution and participate in what is truly one of. I mean I said on the road we say in the film it's the most consequential revolution in history. I've said in the last year and a half of being out promoting it that it's the most important event since the birth of Christ.

[Christina Raffini]

I want to ask you, you have done so many documentaries on so many different significant moments in America's 250 year history. I think about the Civil War which, which aired more than 30 years ago. Vietnam War documentary. When you look at those really divided times in American history, how does that compare to where we are now?

[Ken Burns]

Christina, that's the question for the moment because I think that all of us have a kind of arrogance. Those in the present sort of think, oh, it's the best or the worst. This couldn't be, you know, we' where, you know, the sky has fallen. We're way more divided during our revolution than we are now. Way more divided, as you suggest in the Civil War, in the period after Civil War called Reconstruction, which I'm working on a film series about right now during the Vietnam period, other times of great stress and trauma. And so I think what happens when you're in crisis, you want to go back as an individual and go to that pastor, that professional who's going to ask you very first thing, where'd you come from? Who are your parents? What's your origin story? And I think by going back to the origin story it can give us some strength, strength to go forward. And clearly it's working. You know, for the first time in history, a PBS program entered the top 10 of streaming shows back in November when we first broadcast with extraordinary numbers more than 20 million old fashioned broadcast viewers. And that represented 565 million minutes of streaming. It's now well over 4 billion people are starved for a sense of where we were so that we can know where we are. Just think about it almost as, as. As mathematics or astron. You're going to fix where we are right now by knowing more about where we were. You can't possibly know where you are unless you know where you are, where you've been, and more importantly, where you may be going.

[Christina Raffini]

I do want to ask what your thoughts of how people are approaching history in this country at this moment, especially given that you, you work for pbs. The funding there has been cut. It is. I don't think of your documentaries as politically controversial, but more and more, trying to tell even a neutral story can be very difficult and very fraught, especially with these topics, politics. How do you navigate that?

[Ken Burns]

Well, it's. It's always been tough, but it's more tough for us inside. You know, Mark Twain said, history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes. It means we're constantly working on things that are rhyming. Sometimes those rhymes last throughout the entire production and will last for the entire life of the film. Sometimes, you know, there's a German wife of a German officer coming to the United States who's fearful that Americans eat cats. So if the film had come out last year in 24, or in the fall of 24, a year and a half ago, you know, that was the operative thing. Americans eating cats, long gone, nobody mentioned it, and that was it. So we are very, very conscious of not putting our thumb in the scale. We don't have a political ax to grind. I've taken stuff out because I don't want it to be misinterpreted as somehow a political commentary. And that's why we've attracted people young and old, both sides of the aisle. But we are in a period where people are trying to limit the history, saying it's only one kind of history, which is the way it has worked throughout American history. And quite frankly, though, the funding cutbacks PBS have have really made it tough for us. We're not going anywhere. This has been a huge, big win for them. And we have the opportunity to tell stories that I can't tell anywhere else. I could. I could go to a streamer, I could go to a premium cable and ask, you know, for $30 million to make a film in the Vietnam War, but they're not going to give me ten and a half years to make it. There's going to be layers of suits telling me how to make it. And I'm as proud of that film as any I have ever done because of the complexity that went into it and because fact we were able to avoid the narrow partisan politics that afflict our our daily news. And that's what Americans want to have. What's the long view? What happened? I mean, I had a friend come up to me in the 08 meltdown, which I'm sure you remember in early October of 2008 and said when he was in the financial services, he said this is a depression. And I looked at him and I said in the Depression. And I'd been studied the Depression. Four or five of the various films that I've worked on, I said in in the Depression, in many American cities, the animals in the zoo were shot and the meat distributed to the poor. When that happens, I'll say we're in a depression. But for right now it's a painful, really serious, very deep recession. But you could see his face change, his countenance change. There was a little bit lighter step, as if, oh, you know, the sky isn't falling. And I think this is the great gift of history and everybody is interested in that gift. It doesn't matter who you voted for. It doesn't matter how old you are, how rich you are, what your sex is. It's, it's a good story. Is a good story, is a good story. And may I say, Christina, there's no better story than the story of how we came into being.

[David Gura]

Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend, right after this.

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[Maryland Governor Wes Moore]

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[David Gura]

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[David Gura]

Welcome back to Bloomberg this weekend. I'm David Gura alongside Christina Raffini live from the Intrepid Museum, this decommissioned aircraft carrier on the Hudson river in New York City.

[Christina Raffini]

Right. And we are awaiting the start of this massive ship parade and aerial display, today's historic milestone being celebrated throughout the country and especially on the waterways behind us. You're going to see tall ships behind us shortly. The Vice President, we've seen his his Osprey has taken flight. He's expected to land soon and make remarks. And we're also going to talk to other leaders, including Maryland Governor Wes Moore, who I believe is joining us now. Happy 4th of July. How are you, sir? I'm wondering, as you look at all these events across the country, what do you see as you look back on the 250 years of America? Do you see unity or do you see concern?

[Maryland Governor Wes Moore]

I see a country that has had 250 years of really one of the most remarkable journeys in world History, where we were founded on an idea and founded on a promise. A promise that we were going to see everybody and that we would create something new and unique. That that truthfully has been the greatest experiment in world history. And I think we're now looking at a country that continues to work to honor its promise, and that is the work of patriotism. In fact, I'll be giving an address from the Maryland State Capitol, really talking about how the work of patriotism is a commitment to sacrifice and a commitment to service, that we believe in each other, we fight for each other. That's what's made this country unique in the past, and that's what will continue giving this country strength in the future.

[David Gura]

Talk a bit more about that. The speech that you're going to give there in Annapolis. A lot of veterans will be in the audience for that speech. There's this notion that patriotism has become a contested thing, and I gather that's something that you want to push back against in that speech you're going to deliver.

[Maryland Governor Wes Moore]

It is because patriotism is not political and patriotism is not partisan. You know, patriotism is the people who are willing to fight, fight for the hope of us. The ones who were willing to put on this country's uniform and fight overseas and the ones who were willing to serve as doctors and nurses back home and to heal them when they came home. It was the people who were willing to, you know, willing to fight and to work in the shipyards and the people who were the conductors in the Underground railroad that that patriotism just simply means. Are you willing to fight for the hope of something that you might not even see yourself, but you are doing it because hopefully future generations will be able to benefit from the work that you have done. We are a nation of patriots, and which means we're a nation of public servants. And I think that's the thing I want to be able to focus on, is showing that this is not political and it is not partisan, that no party owns that. That is something that makes this country so special and it's something that, that we must protect.

[Christina Raffini]

I do want to ask you about the status of the American dream. Our colleagues at BBC, I was listening this morning, went out and asked for people to send them messages about what it means to be an American today. And most of them were overwhelmingly positive, but a couple were from people. And I've heard this among first generation families that I talked to or just friends who are immigrants to this country, that the American dream. You come here, you work hard, you Bootstrap yourself up. Anything is achievable is seeming harder and more distant than it used to be for a lot of people, even folks whose whole life wanted to come to America, and now they're not sure that was the right decision. Talk to us about the status, the American Dream. Do you think it is still achievable? And if not, what can we do to change that? What do politicians and lawmakers need to do to make that possible again?

[Maryland Governor Wes Moore]

You know, I think that I understand why people have skepticism. You know, we are in a society right now where people do feel like they're working harder and making less. We are in a society right now where people feel like everything is just more expensive and they're watching people in the highest offices, you know, enriching themselves sitting in these offices. So I understand why there's skepticism. The thing that I would just say is, while that skepticism is real and justified, and frankly, it's skepticism that I have have as well. That skepticism can serve as my companion, but I won't let it become my captor. I won't let that skepticism become something that allows me to forfeit and not forget and forget all everything that people did coming before me. You know, I'm. I'm going to be giving this address tonight or today from the Maryland State Capitol as the first black governor in the history of the state of Maryland, knowing that I'm giving speech in a building that was partially built by the hands of enslaved people. So progress is possible inside of this country. But we just need to make sure that for both our leaders and our everyday citizens, that we understand that the work that is required in order for us to continue to achieve the American dream is work that all of us must embrace.

[David Gura]

Let me pick up on what Christina just asked, because in addition to being governor, you've written many books, and a lot of them have focused on opportunity in this country. And a few weeks back, I had a conversation with Senator Raphael Warnock in which he said he's a bit concerned that the opportunities that he had wouldn't be available to him today if he were younger and just starting out in his life, in his public life. I'm curious if you share that sense and I guess moving beyond just sort of the immigrant story in this country and that notion of the American dream, how you think about opportunity through the prism of the day that we're marking today, the 250th anniversary of this country.

[Maryland Governor Wes Moore]

Yeah, I would say that opportunity is not a straight line. And I think the promise of this country has not been a straight line. I think that one thing we have known about this country was that it was founded on a promise. But truthfully, there has never been a time in this country's history where that promise was, was, was simply given. It has always been earned. And this country has had a long history of complications. And so the, the thing that I would, the thing that I continue to push for is I continue to have a clear understanding that there, that this country has always been littered of times of inconsistency and pain and heartbreak and unfairness. But it was the people who were never willing to give up are the reasons that we are, are here now to this day. And you know, one of the things I'm very thankful for to be the governor of a state and be the governor of Maryland is we're actually actively working to do something about it where, you know, where we've signed the largest mass pardon in the history of the United States of America, giving people a second chance. With misdemeanor cannabis convictions, over 175,000, that we've been able to raise a minimum wage, that we've been able to have the large investments in, in childcare in our state's history, that we've been able to add over 55,000 new businesses since I've been the governor, that we've been able to have the fastest, amongst the fastest drop in violent crime anywhere in the United States of America. That, that these challenges are still real, but we actually have a chance to do something about it. And I just refuse to spend time wallowing on where we are, knowing that the people who came before me didn't do that. And that's why we're in the situations that we have right now.

[Christina Raffini]

Governor, I'm wondering, as a leader of a state, you know, we just finished this very interesting term at the Supreme Court. The President did suffer a few losses, but for the most part, we saw yet again another expansion of executive power. And I wonder, as you think on this 250th anniversary, about the Constitution, that enumerated powers clause, the powers that's not listed here is reserved to the states. How do you think about that balance between states rights, states powers and the federal government? Do you think governors should be doing more? Do you think the, that Washington is taking over too much, or do you think the balance is probably right where it should be?

[Maryland Governor Wes Moore]

No, I think what's really important is for governors to never forget the Constitution. The beauty of the Constitution is that actually a lot of the powers do not fall within the federal government. A lot of powers fall within the state government government and it's important for governors to never lose sight of that. You know, the reason that, for example, in the state of Maryland that we've had amongst the fastest drops in violent crime, you know, anywhere in the United States of America over, you know, over a three year period is not because we activated the National Guard and it is not because we deployed federal, you know, federal troops into our streets. It's because we actually started working together with state and local leaders to be able to bring the kind of results that we are looking for. The reason that we've been able to have, you know, amongst the fastest rises in public education, in public education scores since the end of COVID is not because the federal government did something because in fact, in many ways education is a state run function according to the Constitution. It's because we actually started working together with communities and our educators and, and being able to make sure that our kids should be able to start earlier and be able to learn not just how to be employees, but how to be employers and doing more within code and apprenticeship programs. So I am actually really thankful that governors have a unique opportunity right now to not just protect their people, but protect the Constitution. And I don't think that's something that any governor should ever forfeit to consolidate power amongst the larger federal executive.

[David Gura]

We're talking to Governor Westmore of Maryland on this, the 4th of July, the 250th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence. As we see pictures of Vice President J.D. vance and the USS Kearsurge beginning the inspection of this naval fleet here in earnest. And Governor, I could ask you if you're thinking of running for President. I suspect you would demure. But picking up on what you've said just a moment ago, it does sound like what you were laying out are parts of a vision for how you think the Democratic Party should approach politics more broadly. And something we often ask politicians on the show is who's the leader of the Democratic Party? And I wonder sort of if you see a void there and if you would like kind of what you were describing to be kind of more central tenets of the party of which you're a part.

[Maryland Governor Wes Moore]

You know, I think about the last election that we just had in Maryland this past Tuesday where, you know, we were, we were not only able to win overwhelmingly in our race for governor, but also nominated and supported and endorsed a whole slate of candidates around the state, what we called our Leave no One behind slate. And the only prerequisite that I had for people in the leave no one behind slate, it's not a, it's not a party affiliation nor a wing of a party. The only prerequisite I had was are you ready to disrupt the status quo and are you ready to move fast, to be able to bring real results, results for people? And that is the direction that I think we have to be able to move in, not just as a party, but as a country where we got to stop being a place of no and slow and start being a place of yes. And now we have to understand that the frustrations that people have, they are real. And if you're not focusing on doing everything you can to increase housing, inventory, everything you can to work to control cost, everything you can to be able to create educational opportunities for our kids, everything you can to be able to make it easier for businesses to be able to come and grow and thrive inside of your society, but also making sure the workers are not being left behind in that process, then frankly, then the politics and the people will leave you behind. And so that is the type of leadership that I know we are looking for. Because I know that even in the times of the greatest challenges in our country's history, only two things have gotten us through. It's God's grace and moral leadership. And so we're going to pray for God's grace, but we better be ready to stand up and provide moral leadership as well.

[Christina Raffini]

Before we let you go. You know, you mentioned people are hungry for action, they're hungry for change, they're hungry to see their lawmakers actually do something. And that's partially why we think we've seen this rise of self identified Democratic socialists winning in places like here in New York and in Colorado. I'm wondering if that presents a liability for Democrats going into the fall or if you think there's room in the tent for people who identify in that way under the Democratic Party.

[Maryland Governor Wes Moore]

I think that the thing that we should be focusing on is not, you know, not identifying who should not be part of a conversation. It's about how are you delivering results so people will choose you regardless of who is in the conversation. You know, when I, when I look at, you know, what happened in the state of Maryland, you know, we had candidates from a wide variety of platforms and policy positions. But frankly, the reason that we were so wildly successful with our leave no one behind slate is because these were, these were, these were actions. There's results that people were looking for and they wanted to see the status quo disrupted and I think that's what we were able to provide.

[Christina Raffini]

Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend right after this.

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[Maryland Governor Wes Moore]

Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc.

[Public.com Advertiser]

Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by

[David Gura]

Public Advisors LLC, SEC registered advisor Complete

[IBM Representative]

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[Christina Raffini]

We want to bring our view down to earth. Eastward, just a few blocks from where we are here, Madison Square Garden, where Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey. Chelsea tied the knot last night. Streets were closed, paparazzi were out and hundreds of nypd.

[David Gura]

You didn't go?

[Christina Raffini]

Absolutely not. No, no.

[David Gura]

Forbes puts the cost of this two day affair at more than $20 million. Incredible amount of money. Brittany Spanos joins us now. She's a journalist who covers pop music. And Brittany also teaches at NYU where one of the courses she's offered is on one Taylor Swift. Brittany, good to have you with us. I think when I first heard about this, I thought, no way this is happening. She has untold amount of money. She has a very interesting relationship with privacy, which we can talk about in another. This was like a hugely. This was a spectacle.

[Christina Raffini]

I thought this was really confined to

[David Gura]

this arena, New York City. What did you make of it?

[Brittany Spanos]

Yeah, I thought it was a decoy. I thought that she was going to do it. I mean she has so many properties as she multibillionaire does. And so I was like, maybe it'll be in Kansas City, Rhode island, in Asheville, Pennsylvania. I was like, there's so many options. But this was a big surprise. But I also, I think it's a, this is a very new type of relationship for Taylor where it is very public facing. They go to events together. They do the very celebrity couple things which she really hasn't ever done with any of her past partners. It's always kind of been a little bit behind the scenes. So it makes sense that this is a couple that celebrates.

[David Gura]

Sitting with her husband at the Cavaliers now husband at Cavaliers game. Until the Heim sisters, I guess re upped him one upped him at the Finals.

[Christina Raffini]

All right, as we're talking about America, we're talking about the Declaration of Independence. We don't have a monarchy here.

[Brittany Spanos]

Yeah.

[Christina Raffini]

We don't have royal weddings here. Is that why we care about this? And I'm using we loosely, but like why do we seem to care so much about this?

[Brittany Spanos]

I mean, what we've seen with Taylor Swift as a celebrity in the last few years, specifically with ERAS Tour, which is around the time that her and Travis met. Travis being a man with multiple super bowl rings like this is.

[Christina Raffini]

And Travis, we're on a first name base. Travis, Chelsea.

[Brittany Spanos]

Yeah, Travis. Travis. The, you know, they're, they have the sort of the pillars of celebrity culture in America. Right. It's a football star, pop star, two very well known figures in their fields and you know, it's sort of the, the ultimate type of coming together of an IT couple. You know, they are very celebrated, very talented and also just well known globally.

[Christina Raffini]

Yeah, two different but very big fan group groups kind of merging and so

[Brittany Spanos]

it's, it's really incredible. You know, it's been so interesting to see how that's developed in terms of Taylor kind of reaching this pinnacle in her own career. Travis obviously won a Super bowl within the first year that they were dating. It's kind of the very prom king and queen vibe to it. So there is that royal couple element. But yeah, I think that's why everyone was interested. It's kind of hard for them, any of them to go anywhere anyway. So I guess everyone's going to crowd

[Christina Raffini]

around msg, a large hunk of the city.

[Optum/Chase Advertiser]

Yeah, exactly.

[David Gura]

Let me ask you about the way in which she kind of cultivates her personality, her perception of her personality and image and also relationship to privacy. I mentioned this just a moment ago. So we've had these moments where she's found she's a very private person and then maybe a few months later we have the release of a self funded documentary or a documentary series on the Eras tour. How does she regard her privacy, her image and how does that compare to kind of other pop stars of her renown?

[Brittany Spanos]

You know, I think Taylor tries to find the intersection of it. She really tries to, to find the fact that she is a singer songwriter in the canon of many singer songwriters before her. Joni Mitchell, Joni Mitchell, I mean, you know, she had Paul McCartney there and Stevie Nicks and they are both songwriters who do this, which is being able to pour your personal life into your music. And so she very much reveals who she is through her songs, but then kind of lives the life outside of it. And so we kind of learn about it with the next album of what she just went through, what she just experienced. So you know, I think she, she doesn't shy away from the fame of it all. She doesn't shy away from the fact that she's singing about famous people she's dated or is friends with or has feuds with or you know, any sort of those experiences. But she kind of finds that that sort of semi happy medium. Obviously again, she is a very different kind of celebrity in the sense that she's super famous. And so, you know, she knows that if she goes to a studio on 8th street in Manhattan. There is going to be hundreds of people crowding on 8th street to go see her.

[Christina Raffini]

Before we let you go, I want to ask you about fandom in general. It seems like a very American phenomenon. And I don't know if you feel this, but I feel like it has this extreme fandom, and like nothing Taylor Swift ever can do will ever be bad for some of her extreme fans. Do you feel like that's permeated other parts of our society? Like it's sports fandom. And even the way people look at politicians or issues, they're so immovable now because there's like this. This. This tendency to just commit and stay with it, ride or die. And that can maybe not always be a great thing.

[Brittany Spanos]

Yeah, I mean, it does feel like such a product of the Internet age, where I feel like through social media, the community of fandom is. Is now very much commodified and very much exists in a network way versus fandom before used to be just going to the concerts and meeting other people or going to a game and meeting other fans. So, you know, I think it's that kind of experience of that anonymity of the Internet with. With the sort of, you know, network that you're building through that that makes the fandom even more intense, even more kind of parasocial, really passionate in a way that sometimes moves into kind of a weird, negative way. So I think a lot of that is just the constant experience of it, the 247 experience of being a fan

[Christina Raffini]

these days, and the fact that you can see her go everywhere. Right. I mean, you have to buy a magazine to see, like, a picture of somebody out on the street.

[Brittany Spanos]

Yeah. Like, you know where she went to dinner every night, you know, what she's wearing every day, you know who she's hanging out with, you know who her friends are. Like, we are experiencing it in such a high volume in a way that we've never had experience for many decades.

[David Gura]

Very quickly, before we let you go about 20 seconds here, you teach a course on Taylor Swift. Is there anyone else in this pantheon you could teach a course like this on at this moment?

[Brittany Spanos]

Oh, gosh. I mean, there's so many. I mean, I feel like there's so many great pop stars who are super big right now. I mean, there are other classes on Beyonce and Bad Bunny. And so I feel like those are obviously. Obviously the most obvious answers. But, yeah, I think there's so many great pop stars who've been able to make long careers who are very much worth studying.

[David Gura]

Brittany, great to see you. Thank you very much. Brittany Spann is joining us here on the Intrepid as we do our broadcast here on the 4th of July, 205th anniversary of the US and let us

[Christina Raffini]

know if you expand that syllabus.

[Lisa Mateo]

Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend right after this.

[Public.com Advertiser]

Support for the show comes from public.com, if you're actively involved in your portfolio, you probably catch yourself repeating the same Buying the dip, manually sweeping idle cash, putting on a hedge on Public you can now create AI agents that handle all these tasks on your behalf. Just describe what you want to do in plain English like if the Vix hits 25, buy a put option on the S&P 500 or if my cash balance goes above $20,000, move the excess into my direct index. You approve the workflow and your agent handles the risk, monitoring the market, watching for your conditions and executing your strategies exactly as defined. An investing platform driven by your intent, not just your clicks. You can also get full read and write access to your account via the public API. Go to public.com market and fund your account in five minutes or less. That's public.com market market paid for by

[Maryland Governor Wes Moore]

Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to

[David Gura]

the Public Investing Inc.

[Public.com Advertiser]

Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by

[David Gura]

Public Advisors LLC, SEC registered advisor complete

[Public.com Advertiser]

disclosures [e-mail] disclosures so there's a lot

[IBM Representative]

of noise about AI, but time's too tight for more promises, so let's talk about results. At IBM, we work with our employees to integrate technology right into the systems they need. Now a global workforce of 300,000 can use AI to fill their HR questions, resolving 94% of common questions, not noise. Proof of how we can help companies get smarter by putting AI where it actually pays off. Deep in the work that moves the business. Let's create smarter business IBM when you

[Optum/Chase Advertiser]

own your own business, you own every decision. Now own the card that rewards you for it. The Chase Sapphire Reserve for Business Card brings the best Sapphire Reserve benefits to business owners who expect hard working rewards. Designed to meet the needs of business owners at scale, this Pay in Full card elevates your travel experience and offers premium benefits and value toward business services that will take your business to the next level, fuel your business and maximize rewards. With 8x points on all purchases through Chase Travel, 3x points on social media and search engine advertising, annual partnership credits and more. Make every journey more rewarding with a $300 annual travel credit and access to a network of airport lounges whether you're looking for pre flight activity or time to rest and recharge. Chase Sapphire Reserve for Business. It's the card that gives back all you put in. Learn [e-mail] ReserveBusiness Chase for Business make more of what's yours. Accounts subject to credit approval restrictions and limitations apply. Cards are issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank, NA member FDIC.

[David Gura]

Welcome back to Bloomberg this weekend from the Intrepid Museum on the Hudson river here in New York. We're gonna head back to Coney island where Lisa Mateo is there at a big event later this morning. Lisa, before we get into the event that I'm alluding to, this hot dog eating competition, just give us a bit of history of Coney Island. It's a place that I go to walk and swim from time to time, but share a little history of the place before we get into the contest itself.

[Lisa Mateo]

Yeah, you got it, guys. And it's best to say the Brooklyn girl, Tacony island, bringing back so many memories here. But this is a place of 350 businesses, 50,000 residents. But the history here goes so deep. The boardwalk first opened in 1923 and it has survived the Great Recession, the Great Depression. It has survived it all with so many amazing landmarks. Of course you have. Yes. The, the Brooklyn's Eiffel Tower towers a lot of people around here call it. That's the parachute jump. It is closed. You know, been closed since the 1960s, but it is a staple and a landmark out here. The boardwalk is a New York City official landmark. There is the Cyclone, which I've ridden so many times I can't even tell you. The wonder wheel too on top of it. But on top of it also are the businesses, the restaurants, the people. And that's what a lot of people talk about here. Gotta also tell you about the amphitheater as well, the competition, of course, for the hot dog eating contest. We'll get to that a little bit later. But you can see the stage kind of setting itself for the Fourth of July because every Friday they host fireworks here at night. The the Coney island alliance does. And then on the 4th of July they're actually hosting extra fireworks today. So more for people to enjoy.

[Christina Raffini]

All right, Lisa, I'm gonna have to have you take me out to Coney island because I've never been. I really want to go. She seems like the expert. You don't do our weekend adventures, but Lisa and I went to a spa and a cold plunge without you. So our next weekend adventure will be Coney Island. We do, of course, have to talk about the hot dogs. As you can see, or maybe not see, we've got all of them in front of us. We're about to go through them. But what is. How did this start, this hot dog eating contest of worldwide renown that you are about to bear witness to it?

[Lisa Mateo]

It has. I mean. I mean, Nathan's itself is just a staple here. It's been here for more than 100 years. It started from a Polish immigrant by the name of Nathan who opened up a hot dog cart for hot dogs that were a nickel. Yes, five cents. Of course, the price has gone up since then, but it's just a part of the area here. People started coming here in 1972. They held the first hot dog eating contest. That was in 1972. The winner actually ate about 14 hot dogs. Just to give you an idea of how this has grown since then. The men's eating contest record. They have to eat how many hot dogs they can in 10 minutes. The record for the men's is 76. The record for the women's is 51. So that kicks off later on here for today. But it's just become people coming from all over the world. I want to point out, for those of you watching on tv, behind me, over my shoulder, here, here, there's a family who came all the way from Wisconsin. He brought his three daughters. They're all wearing hot dog hats. And they told their dad, you know what? This has been something you watch every year. We're going to drive down. They drove 15 hours to get here to just watch this contest and. And bring their dad so he can experience it live. There's another guy in front of them who is from Scotland. Came all the way from Scotland here, not for the World Cup. He came here for this contest. So it just goes to show you how many people come out here for this, guys. But I got, you know, my whole plate here of hot dogs. Let me bring it up for you. Here we go. So I don't think I can eat this many, but just to give you a little flavor for the contest.

[Christina Raffini]

Lisa, I know that you are our resident protein expert, but I would like to encourage you not to try to eat. You said 76 was the men 50 something for the 1. Please don't do that. I know. I think you probably could if you wanted to, but I'm begging you, please don't do that. All right. Thank you, Lisa. Hang in there. Maybe feed the crew. All right. This is a holiday that does usually Involve some form of grilling. And even though we don't have a grill out here with us, we do have hot dogs.

[David Gura]

There are a lot. You're a raid on the table. And we have somebody with us who knows an awful lot about hot dogs. That's Kathleen Squire. She's a food writer for Wirecutter at the New York Times. She has tested, hosted you yourself with a team. 31 different hot dogs, all beef, and rated them. We're going to get into sort of the hierarchy of all this, but let me ask you first about the snap. How much does the snap of a hot dog matter?

[Kathleen Squires]

The snap of the hot dog is the number one thing that matters. That. That nice, like texture when you bite into it and it snaps. That's what a hot dog should be all about.

[Christina Raffini]

So where. Which of the ones that you rated was that the number one qualifier? What were the categories you used to rate the different hot dogs?

[Kathleen Squires]

Texture. The snap was a category. The flavor, of course, the balance of the spicing and, you know, appearance, how it sat in the bun, how it mingled with condiments, how it mingled.

[David Gura]

So we have them right here. The Sabret.

[Kathleen Squires]

Yes.

[David Gura]

Which we see around New York City. If you walk around and see hot dog carts, often, they are certain serving. Walk us through why that is the hot dog of excellence here.

[Christina Raffini]

That was the winner, right?

[David Gura]

Yes.

[Kathleen Squires]

Yeah. Sabrette is a New York classic. You'll see the blue and yellow umbrellas all over town. And we thought it had the best snap, the best balance of flavor. It's very New York. It also. It kind of tastes like pastrami.

[David Gura]

Okay.

[Kathleen Squires]

Yeah.

[Christina Raffini]

And price wise, is it high, low in the middle?

[Brittany Spanos]

Middle.

[Kathleen Squires]

It's in the middle. Okay. I think, though, if in town, it's. It's quite reasonable. But if you try to get them, if you live on the west coast, let's say they're a little more pricey.

[Christina Raffini]

Like an import.

[Kathleen Squires]

Yeah, exactly. You're paying for the shipping and import.

[David Gura]

Walk us through the tasting process. So I joked you, have you tasted all 31?

[Christina Raffini]

Do you ever want to look at a hot dog ever again?

[Kathleen Squires]

I'm sitting here right now having one for breakfast.

[Christina Raffini]

But, I mean, hot dogs have to have a bit of a hiatus, I think.

[Kathleen Squires]

I think maybe we'll take a little break after the holiday.

[Christina Raffini]

But it's July.

[David Gura]

But pull back the curtain for us. The wire cutter curtain. How does this process work when you're. When you're testing a product like this one? What goes into that? And sort of what does your team look like, and what are they doing?

[Kathleen Squires]

Okay, so there were eight taste testers on our panel. We came from all over the U.S. indiana, California, Texas, New York.

[David Gura]

Broad geographic diversity.

[Christina Raffini]

Diversity of dog and test. Yes, exactly.

[Kathleen Squires]

We do blind tastings, so we really don't know which hot dog we're tasting as we taste them and making our notes. And so we started by tasting the dogs in their purest form. Just kind of boiled, cut up into pieces.

[David Gura]

No bun?

[Kathleen Squires]

No bun, no condiments. And then we narrowed down to 11 finalists, which we put in a bun, used our toppings of choice, but we had to be consistent with those. And then we judged the how they sat in the bun and again, how they mingled with the condiments. And we came up with our five picks.

[David Gura]

I imagine your Chicago based tester had some opinions on what should be on a hot dog.

[Christina Raffini]

This is very contentious. What you are allowed to put on a hot dog?

[Kathleen Squires]

Absolutely.

[Christina Raffini]

You guys also did you rated regional hot dog toppings. You did a bracket of eight styles?

[Kathleen Squires]

Yes.

[Christina Raffini]

And Seattle won by a 2 to 1 vote.

[David Gura]

What are the Seattle toppings?

[Christina Raffini]

I have no idea what. But a Seattle hot dog topping, that

[Kathleen Squires]

really threw us for a loop. The Seattle dogs are so delicious. They are split, they're butterflied. So when you put the toppings on, they really kind of soak them up and, and get in there. There's cream cheese in the bun, which is a shocker.

[Christina Raffini]

I'm sorry, what?

[Kathleen Squires]

Yes, they spread the bun with cream cheese. But again, it's delicious. It kind of all comes together and there's jalapenos involved, which give it a beautiful nice crunch, some onions. It's a great dog.

[Christina Raffini]

Where can one obtain a Seattle dog in the city? I gotta find one. I gotta go to Seattle for this.

[Kathleen Squires]

Gotta go to Seattle.

[David Gura]

I guess the one that I see missing here is the Vienna Beef hot dog. This is a Chicago tried and true Chicago brand of hot dog. Can I get them in New York? And why are they on your list of.

[Christina Raffini]

Do we have a hard time getting them?

[David Gura]

I think, yeah, they're hard to track down.

[Kathleen Squires]

You can't get them in your local grocery store, but you can order them online, like through Gold Belly or there's other places that can ship them to you.

[Christina Raffini]

Why is this such a quintessential American food?

[Kathleen Squires]

Hot dogs are so American because think about their history. They came here via immigrants, like in the mid 19th century. And then because Americans are such individualists, we all across the nation put our own spins on them. And that's where the toppings come in and kind of the discussion of toppings.

[Christina Raffini]

Amazing. It's a blank slate.

[David Gura]

30 seconds left here. How do you prepare yours? Boiled, grilled. And what do you put on your dog? No ketchup?

[Kathleen Squires]

No, no ketchup for me. I'm a mustard only gal. I grill them. I love grilling, so I love the smoke that the grill imparts in a hot dog.

[David Gura]

You were saying before you did all beef, but there's many people. There's infinite varieties of hot dogs, infinite variety.

[Kathleen Squires]

There's turkey hot dogs, there's pork hot dogs. There's pork blend, pork chicken blends. There's, there's vegan hot dogs out there.

[Christina Raffini]

I say at the risk of getting canceled, I, I do like the tofu hot dogs. They're pretty tasty.

[David Gura]

We won't cancel you here.

[Christina Raffini]

Oh, I'm getting hearts from some of our producers.

[David Gura]

Sorry.

[Christina Raffini]

Here's some tofu hot dogs.

[David Gura]

We will have you back. We'll have you back for round two. We'll do the turkey dogs next, maybe.

[Christina Raffini]

All right, fair enough. Fair enough.

[David Gura]

Thank you. Kathleen Squires of Wirecutter joining us here on set on the Intrepid.

[Christina Raffini]

Thanks for joining us on today's Bloomberg this Weekend podcast. Don't forget to tune in live for the show every Saturday and Sunday morning starting at 7am Eastern.

[David Gura]

We're on Bloomberg Television radio and the Bloomberg Business app, bringing you unique takes and in depth interviews on news, politics, lifestyle and culture.

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