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- [00:01]
IBM Business Representative
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- [00:29]
The Hartford Insurance Representative
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- [01:09]
Michigan Business Promotion Representative
Hartford, Connecticut as industries evolve faster than ever, companies need an environment that accelerates strategic growth and Michigan delivers on that promise. From emerging startups to global enterprises, Michigan offers what executives value most a resilient, innovative ecosystem, diverse communities that attract top talent, and a quality of life that supports work life. Balance with our unified Team Michigan approach businesses, scale faster and compete at the highest level. Michigan Pure Opportunity Seize your opportunity@MichiganBusiness.org
- [01:44]
David Gura
Bloomberg Audio Studios podcasts Radio News welcome to the Bloomberg this Weekend Podcast with David Gura, Christina Raffini and Lisa Mateo. Thanks for joining us for today's selection of conversations from the show.
- [02:03]
Christina Raffini
You can listen to our favorite discussions right here on the podcast, but also make sure to join us live every Saturday and Sunday morning starting at 7am Eastern.
- [02:10]
Lisa Mateo
We're on Bloomberg Television Radio and the Bloomberg Business App bringing you unique takes and in depth interviews on news, politics, lifestyle and culture.
- [02:23]
David Gura
Joining us now is Democratic Senator Jeanne Shaheen. She's the ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and co Chair of the bipartisan NATO Observer Group. Senator, thank you so much for being with us. I first want to ask you what your take is on with you the events. Thank you sir. We have a bit of a delay. I apologize. I should have known that the events overnight and the impact on US Force position in the Middle east, both our military and diplomatic installations.
- [02:53]
Senator Jeanne Shaheen
Well, I think like all Americans, I offer my deepest condolences to the families of those service members who have been lost. You know our men and women in the Middle east have performed in an outstanding way and they will continue to do that. But what we need to do is to bring this war to a close and get the President to get Iran back to the negotiating table. He has not accomplished any of the goals that he set out for the war in the beginning. Whether it's getting rid of the Iran's nuclear program or changing the regime. We have a more hardline regime in place. We haven't dealt with the enriched uranium that's on site. We haven't destroyed their ballistic missile capability. And furthermore, Iran now is controlling the Strait of Hormuz and that was never an issue before with respect to their nuclear program. They continue to support proxies across the Middle East. So now is the time to get them back to the table, they to address these issues because it seems clear that while we are going to degrade their capability, to finally address all of these issues is not going to be possible just by a bombing campaign.
- [04:09]
Christina Raffini
You sit on the Foreign Relations Committee, the Armed Services Committee, and I hear you on your call to get Iran back to the table. But I wonder what route you see for doing that. You mentioned the President's goals here, what they were at the onset of this conflict. They have changed. There's been a plasticity to them over the course of this war so far. I wonder if it's clear to you what their objectives are and again, how you would get them back to the.
- [04:31]
Senator Jeanne Shaheen
Well, when you say plasticity, I assume you mean they've gone back and forth.
- [04:34]
Christina Raffini
Yes.
- [04:36]
Senator Jeanne Shaheen
When you say plasticity, what we've seen is that the President announces different goals from day to day. The problem is there hasn't been a strategy for this war. We need a strategy. We need to figure out how we're going to get Iran back to the table so that we can actually negotiate. Unfortunately, the President is the one page, two page memorandum that he announced that was signed by Iran and the United States was open to vast interpretation and it basically provided Iran everything they wanted and yet they're still not satisfied. So we've got to have come up with a different strategy. And so far the President hasn't shared that with Congress or the American public how he's going to do that.
- [05:19]
David Gura
I wonder how concerned you are that Iran seems to be employing a different strategy now with its tactics with attacking these bases. They have different munitions. They're barraging them with cheaper munitions before firing the ones that they can target better. And there's also reporting in the Wall Street Journal that perhaps they are getting targeting information and help from either China or Russia. I'm wondering if you have any, any insight into that intelligence and what you think about these tactics, if you're concerned about an escalation.
- [05:47]
Senator Jeanne Shaheen
I don't have any insights beyond what's been publicly reported. But it does go to the point that we need to get Russia back. We need to address their war in Ukraine. We need to continue to degrade their capability, and that's what the Ukrainians are doing. We need to put pressure on Vladimir Putin. Now is the time. There is momentum on Ukraine's side. And if we can, if Ukraine can defeat Russia there, then that puts real pressure on them in the Middle East. We need to look at China. One of the things that we have just introduced, reintroduced this week, is the Graham Blumenthal sanctions bill that would target the top users of Russian oil and gas, and China is the number one user. And if we can shut down their ability to access that cheap Russian oil and gas, that has a real impact on them and it restricts their abilities in the Middle East.
- [06:43]
Christina Raffini
Senator, let me ask you about that bill. So there's the debate in the Congress about it and what it should do, but the president has a lot of latitude here. Were it to be passed, he would choose to implement those tariffs, those secondary tariffs or not. And I'm very curious, sort of, as you've been a party to these conversations with the White House, with the U.S. trade Representative, your sense of the eagerness or willingness of this administration, the President in particular, to impose those tariffs, if in fact this is. This has made law. We've seen the way that he has operated with regard to Russia in the past, the unwillingness to impose sanctions and tariffs like this previously. Do you think that he's at a point at which he would likely put those tariffs of 100% in place were he given the ability to do so?
- [07:27]
Senator Jeanne Shaheen
Well, the momentum, as I said, is on the side of Ukraine. And the fact is, this is a very different bill than the bill that was originally introduced by Senators Graham and Blumenthal. It is much more narrowly crafted. It's aimed at the top five users of Russian oil and gas. It's aimed at the shadow fleet. We've already sanctioned the shadow fleet from Iran, and that's had a real impact on their ability to sell oil. So this would have a real impact on Russia. And what we know right now is that they're losing over 30,000 casualties a month. Their economy has taken a big hit. If we can really put pressure on Vladimir Putin, it's going to have an impact. That's what this bill is designed to do. And what we've seen from it would be a fitting tribute to Senator Graham to be able to pass this. When we were in Ankara at the NATO summit last week, we heard from the White House that they were supportive of the legislation. The treasury and the trade representative are both supportive. So this is the opportune time to get this bill passed. We have 62 sponsors in the Senate now, and we're still working on more. So let's get this done and let's put pressure on Vladimir Putin and shut down his war machine.
- [08:50]
David Gura
Senator, a little less than an hour ago, the president posted on Truth Social that Republicans should add Iran to that sanctions bill. He says that's what Lindsey wanted to do and was going to happen in Portland. I'm wondering if you had any inkling that the late Senator Graham wanted to expand that bill to include Iran and if you think the inclusion of sanctions on Iran would either delay or compromise all that support you just mentioned.
- [09:16]
Senator Jeanne Shaheen
Well, Senator Graham never raised the concern about putting Iranian sanctions on the bill. The fact is we. We have significant sanctions on Iran. When the war started, we put additional sanctions on Iran. I think if the president wants to do that, let's do it in a separate bill. But this bill is moving. As I said, it's targeted in a way that is important and comes on the heels of the G7 conference where everyone, including President Trump, signed on to a communique that said we need to support Ukraine and put more pressure on Putin. That was echoed at the NATO summit. We know that that's what it's going to take to get Vladimir Putin to the table. So far, we have not been successful at getting him to the negotiating table. And let's put more pressure on him to do that.
- [10:10]
Christina Raffini
Senator, we're talking to you in London. As you mentioned, you were at Ankara for the NATO summit a few days ago, and I'm very curious to get your perspective on how Europeans are regarding the United States. I think everyone would say this was a, at least a relatively successful summit in the context of past NATO summits the president's been a participant in. But we have seen Europeans kind of react or comport themselves differently as the US has begun to kind of disengage with some traditional aspects of their relationship with Europe. How do you see that relationship today? Are you worried about it? What's the path forward as you see it?
- [10:44]
Senator Jeanne Shaheen
Well, as you pointed out, the NATO summit was very successful. Not only did we highlight the additional spending on defense. All 32 NATO countries are now at 2% of GDP, which had been an earlier goal. They're working their way up to 5% of GDP. We have a number of countries that I think 7 now that are over 3%. And so it was an opportunity both to highlight that and also to highlight the opportunities in our defense industrial base. We know that we're addressing threats from China in the Indo Pacific, from Russia, in Europe, from Iran, of course, and North Korea. We know we've got to work together with our allies and partners, and we've got to improve our defense industrial base in a way that allows us to work more collaborative together to do co production. And we focused on that at the NATO summit in a way that I think was really important. And we didn't hear from our European partners that they were concerned about the United States. What we heard was the importance of all of us working together, cooperating. I'm here in England with a bipartisan delegation from the Congress for the Farnborough Air Show. It's one of the biggest air shows in the world, and the American presence here is bigger than it's ever been in the past. And everyone's talking about how do we work together, how do we continue to innovate to keep America ahead of the competition when it comes to aerospace, which is so important to our future.
- [12:19]
David Gura
Senator, I'm assuming you didn't get that gift from Erdogan at the NATO summit that some of the other delegates got. I think we're calling it the Erdogan Special. But assuming you didn't go home with any new weapons, I do know that you met with Ukraine's President Zelensky while you were there. It seems like this is a very pivotal time in that conflict. And there's also some tumult happening in Kyiv right now inside his government. What was your conversation with Zelensky like, and what is your take on what's going on with the leadership of the Defense Department in Ukraine right now?
- [12:50]
Senator Jeanne Shaheen
Well, we talked at the NATO summit about what Ukraine's successes, about their drone production, their innovation when it comes to drones and how critical that's been to the conduct of this war. One of the people who has been very important in helping to change that direction when it comes to drone production and the new way of waging war has been their Defense Minister Fedorov, who was dismissed by President Zelensky. Now there are demonstrations. I think President Zelensky has said he's going to listen to what people have to say, and I hope he's going to be responsive to that.
- [13:27]
Christina Raffini
I want to ask you about this period that we're in. When you look at the Ukraine conflict, this 4:40 day period that the President Zelensky is really emphasizing additional strikes on Russia. We've seen him strike ships in the Strait of Azar as well. How do you view the kind of pivotal nature of this moment in that conflict? And the images that we saw yesterday from the President's Twitter account were really extraordinary. The strikes that Ukraine made on Russia, what does it tell you about the trajectory of the conflict and indeed what Ukraine needs at this point in terms of support?
- [14:00]
Senator Jeanne Shaheen
Well, again, there's no doubt that momentum is on Ukraine's side right now. And that's why we need to be thinking about every avenue we can to support Ukraine. We saw tremendous support for Ukraine after the NATO summit, pledging billions of dollars in support. Looking at President Trump said to President Zelensky, we agree you should be able to produce the Patriot missile and interceptors in Ukraine. That was a big step forward. And thinking about how we put pressure on Russia now and Vladimir Putin is really critical. And that's why this Russia sanctions bill that we have that would sanction their financial entities, their oligarchs. Also look at those countries that are benefiting from that cheap Russian oil and gas and shut that down because that shuts down the support for Russia's war machine. And that's what we need to do. Their economy is on the brink. It's teetering. The casualties that they're losing are just unbelievable from America's prospect. When you think about in less than three months, Russia's losing as many people on the battlefield as we lost throughout all of Vietnam. So now is the time for us to take action. I'm hoping Congress will do this, will get this bill passed and think about all the other ways that we can try and bring Vladimir Putin to the table to end this war.
- [15:30]
David Gura
Senator, it does seem that this is at least moving towards a level of pressure that Putin really hasn't felt prior to this. But there is some concern with that. And that is if you corner someone, they're going to react. Are you concerned that a desperate Putin could do something really abhorrent like the use of tactical nukes? And what can the US or its allies do to try to prevent that?
- [15:55]
Senator Jeanne Shaheen
Well, I think what Vladimir Putin is doing right now is already abhorrent. And the concern is that if he's successful in Ukraine, or even if not, the one place where he could escalate is against a NATO country and that's why doing everything we can to bring him to the table is critical. Look, he's lost his foothold in South America with Venezuela. He's in danger of losing Cuba. He's lost his foothold in the Middle east, in Syria. Now is the time to add to that pressure to get him to the table.
- [16:31]
Christina Raffini
Let me just ask you to look ahead, if you could, at the way in which you're going to get more answers to questions that you have about the administration's strategy going forward here. I'm curious what's front of mind for you, what you'd like to learn more about and if indeed there has been any improvement in the ability of the committees on which you sit, again, Armed Services and Foreign Relations, in getting information about strategy from this administration?
- [16:53]
Senator Jeanne Shaheen
Well, not that I'm aware of. We have a hearing before Appropriations on Tuesday afternoon where Secretary Hegseth and Secretary Rawlins will come in for their supplemental budget request. We have very few details about what they're planning and what that would mean going forward for the war in Iran. We need to see that transparency. The fact is, in order to be successful, Congress and the administration should be working together. And the president and Secretary Hegseth have not provided any of those details.
- [17:30]
Christina Raffini
Senator, thank you very much. That's Senator Jean Shaheen of New Hampshire, of course, sits on the Foreign Relations, Armed Services and Appropriations Committee's joining us today from London ahead of the Farnborough Air Show. Appreciate your time. Thank you very much.
- [17:40]
David Gura
Thank you, ma'.
- [17:40]
Lisa Mateo
Am.
- [17:41]
David Gura
All right. We're going to go now to the latest headlines with Lisa Mateo.
- [17:44]
Lisa Mateo
You got a guys, lettuce recalls tied to a cyclosporitis outbreak. It continues to spread. And now select Wal Mart locations. They have removed four bag lettuce salad products manufactured by Taylor Farms. The retailer said they pulled the items which are sold marketside store brand as a precaution. Now there have been no confirmed illnesses tied to those products. Ontario Premier Doug Ford is firing back at the president Trump's criticism of Canada's wildfire response. The president took to truth Social on Friday, threatening higher tariffs to deal with the cost of, quote, filthy polluted air. Now Ford called the president's rhetoric unacceptable and suggested dropping lumber tariffs would help clear forests. Ford said Ontario has 191 active wild forest fires, poor air quality not affecting today's World cup finals when Argentina defends its title against Spain in New Jersey this afternoon. Now Argentina looking for its fourth title and battling and they're battling Spain, who is going for their second and the match today is going to be attended by 80,000 spectators including President Donald Trump. Another 50,000 fans will attend a free watch party on Central Park's Great Lawn. A host committee's study shows the World cup has produced 1 point billion in direct economic impact during the group stage period. And FIFA. Yes. Also introducing a star studded closing ceremony alongside a first of its kind halftime show for the final. It'll feature Madonna, Shakira, Justin Bieber and BTS David and Christina.
- [19:13]
Christina Raffini
I'm excited for Shakira perennial presence.
- [19:17]
David Gura
I follow the guy who makes her skirts online. They're very, they're very fringy. Very.
- [19:20]
Christina Raffini
All right, well that's an interesting tidbit.
- [19:22]
David Gura
All right. This is going to be a hard pivot on a less, a less fun topic now.
- [19:26]
Michigan Business Promotion Representative
All right.
- [19:27]
David Gura
As we just talked about with Senator Shaheen, Russia hit Ukraine with the largest ballistic missile barrages so far in the four year old war. Ukrainian President Zelensky says it involved more than 50 missiles and 120 attack drones. And now he's asking for more interceptors and more sanctions on Russia.
- [19:41]
Christina Raffini
Comes after Ukraine struck in Russia yesterday. I spoke to President Trump's former deputy Secretary of State at the Aspen Security Forum. Steve Biegun told me President Trump truly wants peace. But Vladimir Putin does not share that goal.
- [19:52]
Steve Biegun
He sees war as is a wasteful exercise. He also also sees it as a failure of diplomacy, a failure of negotiation. Very much in the context of how President, President Trump likes to approach global tensions like this. But he's got a bit of the conceit of the negotiator too, which is, I think he believes everything is negotiable. In this case, it's just not the case. Putin doesn't want a negotiation. Putin wants Ukraine and he wants all of it. American presidents, President Trump and even to a greater extent President Biden before him wake up every morning and think how do I avoid a direct war with Russia? But Vladimir Putin wakes up every morning and thinks how do I win a war against America? And that's that. I think that mismatch is very much on display. No matter how much President Trump wants a peaceful end of this war, Vladimir Putin's not going to give it to him because peace is not his objective.
- [20:44]
David Gura
It's a really interesting point. I think America for decades has failed to understand some of its foes, rationale and the ways of thinking. And Russia especially. We just don't seem to frame ideas and concepts and diplomacy the same way a lot of times. So that gets us in trouble.
- [21:01]
Christina Raffini
Thinking as you were talking just about what a cornered Putin might do. Secretary begin expressing very similar concerns here about the irrationality of somebody backed into a corner in the way in which it seems like President Putin is, at least in small form, 100%, but doesn't
- [21:13]
David Gura
feel like he has any options. But that's always dangerous. It's also dangerous. You know, power pours a vacuum if he goes, if he ever goes, what replaces him.
- [21:19]
Christina Raffini
Yeah, and I should say he, echoing what the senator said just a moment ago, that he really feels like this war has changed its trajectory here in recent weeks, that Ukraine does have the upper hand going forward here. Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend, right after this.
- [21:37]
The Hartford Insurance Representative
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- [22:33]
Public.com Representative
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- [22:46]
Optum Representative
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- [23:46]
Okta Representative
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- [24:26]
David Gura
After a long, complicated, mostly joyful journey, the 2026 FIFA World cup is finally here. Spain is going to be taking on Argentina as that team tries to be the first to win back to back World Cups, A feat not achieved since Brazil in 1958 and 1962. So to bring this all to a nice close, we let Gura go get a coffee and we invited Bloomberg Business of sports reporter host Randall Williams on the sofa. Here with me to help interview our next guest, we have Real Madrid and German national team center back Antonio Rudiger. Thank you so much for coming in. We really appreciate this. Thank you for coming in.
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Antonio Rudiger
Absolutely. I'm excited.
- [25:00]
David Gura
All right, boys, who's going to win this game?
- [25:03]
Lisa Mateo
Who?
- [25:03]
Antonio Rudiger
Let's ask the professional first.
- [25:06]
Randall Williams
I think that's a tough question. And who? Obviously, because I play in Spain, I'm going for for Spain. But it's a tough match because Argentina is really, really a strong opponent and yeah, but still I root for Spain.
- [25:24]
David Gura
Fair enough.
- [25:25]
Antonio Rudiger
So everyone who is analyzing this game say that Spain keeps the ball away, they don't allow you to have it. And that's how you know, ultimately they could beat Argentinas if they score first and then play. Keep away from your perspective, what makes Spain a difficult opponent.
- [25:38]
Randall Williams
If you see the way how Spain played the whole tournament, they were always dominant, they played as a team and they have also great individual quality with La Mina Mal and I think that's a great, they have a great mix, great mix of team. But then you see Argentina is. They have Lionel Messi and then they have the soldiers and that makes them very dangerous.
- [26:04]
David Gura
How has this World cup been overall? I mean, I know obviously Germany didn't go as far as I'm sure you would have liked because. But you've been here, you've been playing and even Watching was very controversial to start the venue, but it feels like, I mean, people have called it a worldwide sleepover. The fans, the Americans. We've gotten along pretty well. And from a player's perspective, just how was it?
- [26:23]
Randall Williams
No, I find it very, very, very positive because you see a lot of different nations meet together and the main focus is the World cup and the joy in the people and all the emotions and cultures are meeting together and everyone supports. And this is just great.
- [26:46]
Antonio Rudiger
How is your experience just being around the US Cities? One of the things that was unique was that you were traveling all throughout, you know, back and forth to the base camp and then out to the matches themselves. What was your experience like as you were traveling and experiencing the different cultures in those cities?
- [27:00]
Randall Williams
This, for me personally, it was. First of all, we are there for a job like the traveling. That's part of it.
- [27:08]
David Gura
It's a work trip.
- [27:09]
IBM Business Representative
Yeah.
- [27:10]
Randall Williams
America. America is a huge country. So that's why we knew that before.
- [27:14]
The Hartford Insurance Representative
Yeah.
- [27:14]
Randall Williams
But just meeting the people around, because me, I like to have walks outside and just connect with the people and yeah, the people being great, they've been great. Because normally when you come to the U.S. you think like people will not recognize. Recognize you or something like this. So you think you have more peace.
- [27:30]
David Gura
But not in America, sir.
- [27:32]
Randall Williams
Not at all.
- [27:33]
David Gura
It's all super fans recognized on the, on the street.
- [27:35]
Randall Williams
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But the approach, I like the. I like the approach. It's very respectful.
- [27:39]
David Gura
Really.
- [27:40]
Randall Williams
This is really something very, very nice.
- [27:42]
David Gura
Any favorite moments, favorite interactions?
- [27:44]
Randall Williams
Favorite interactions? Yeah, like not favorite. Because they all been the same. Like, it's more about the approach. Approach. The way people speak to you. Like, very friendly, always please and thank you. Like very well educated.
- [27:59]
David Gura
Oh, that makes it. Thanks, thanks fellow Americans. We appreciate that on behalf. You mentioned Messi. You've played, I think four times in your career. What makes him stand out as, as a player? Is he. Is he worth the hype? Is he really as good as, as his reputation?
- [28:16]
Randall Williams
Well, I think we are all seeing it. And he's now, don't. I don't want to say anything wrong, but I think he's now 39 years old.
- [28:24]
David Gura
That's.
- [28:25]
Antonio Rudiger
Yeah, is 39.
- [28:26]
Randall Williams
So then you know that. And he's still delivering on the world stage, so I think we don't need to speak more like.
- [28:35]
David Gura
Fair enough.
- [28:36]
Antonio Rudiger
I want to go back a couple weeks when Flo Baligan, the US striker, he was, he was given a red card. Some say that red card shouldn't have been given out but, but based on the rules, it should have. And we see President Trump get involved. He asked FIFA to review it. As you were watching all of that unfold, what was your perspective?
- [28:53]
Randall Williams
Well, yeah, it's difficult. It's a difficult topic especially for the player. For the US Team, I think, I wouldn't say that is the fault why they got eliminated, but I think that also plays a part.
- [29:09]
Antonio Rudiger
Belgium came out fire especially.
- [29:11]
David Gura
It had to be a hard head game too definitely.
- [29:14]
Randall Williams
So yeah. But I think my personal opinion, he should have stayed out of that game.
- [29:20]
David Gura
If you were the coach, would you have played him or would you have kept him out?
- [29:24]
Randall Williams
Well, if I would be the coach of USA is. It's the Talisman, it's the most, one of the most important players in the squad. No, I would play him.
- [29:32]
David Gura
All right, all right, all right. You mentioned the age, Messi's age. This, this World Cup. Bloomberg did an analysis has more players in their mid and late 30s than any other World Cup. In 2026, 6% of the 48 national team squads were players on or around 48 of the 20 oldest ever players to play in the World cup match took the field in 2026. You're still a young guy, but career longevity in sports is hard. Is this encouraging? How are people achieving that in their things? Is that something you think about on a day to day basis when you're playing is, is how long you can do this?
- [30:06]
Randall Williams
Absolutely, I'm thinking about it. But first of all, like we all always hoping and praying that we stay healthy and but with the amount of games we have, it's not always easy. So that's why like I'm now in my 30s, so I'm 33. So I'm also looking at always sleeping well, doing the right things. Yeah. To be at that at this highest level because the young guns, they're coming out, there's always new talents. So the competition is huge. So that's why we have to look out for. But as the statistics say, we old men doing a good job.
- [30:43]
David Gura
All right, well we only have a couple minutes left and I know you want to get to your foundation because as you look at maybe not after soccer, but inconcurrent with and just life outside of football. What is your foundation and what does it do? And I know you guys have a big event coming up.
- [30:57]
Randall Williams
Yes. Yeah. As you mentioned, my foundation, I think this is my biggest drive, my biggest drive. And that's when I want to leave my legacy, my personal legacy. And my foundation is about young kids in Sierra Leone. And it's about health education and sports development. And this is, that's what, that's why. Also, I have my foundation gala in Washington, D.C. on the 21st of July.
- [31:28]
David Gura
We think our tickets got lost in the mail, but we hope it's gonna be a good party.
- [31:31]
Randall Williams
Oh, it's gonna be, it's gonna definitely be a good fundraising gala and then a good party.
- [31:36]
David Gura
Okay. Perfect. Perfect. Expansion good or bad?
- [31:38]
Randall Williams
Bad.
- [31:39]
David Gura
Okay. Thank you so much for coming in. I encourage everyone to go to the website, take a look at the website, website of the foundation and what you guys are trying to do. And I know you're going to do more of that coming up. Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend right after this.
- [31:57]
The Hartford Insurance Representative
Support for the show comes from public.com if you're actively involved in your portfolio, you probably catch yourself repeating the same actions. Buying the dip, manually sweeping idle cash, putting on a hedge on public. You can now create AI agents that handle all these tasks on your behalf. Just describe what you want to do in plain English, like if the Vix hits 25, buy a put option on the S&P 500 or if my cash balance goes above $20,000, move the excess into my direct index. You approve the workflow and your agent handles the risk, monitoring the market, watching for your conditions and executing your strategies exactly as defined. An investing platform driven by your intent and not just your clicks. You can also get full read and write access to your account via the public API. Go to public.com market and fund your account in five minutes or less. That's public.com market paid for by Public
- [32:53]
Public.com Representative
Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, LLC. SEC registered advisor complete disclosures available@public.com disclosures
- [33:07]
Optum Representative
let's talk about healthcare for a second. It doesn't always work the way people expect it to. If you've ever waited on a prescription refill or had a hard time getting the care you needed, you know the feeling the system should just work better for everyone. That's exactly what the people at Optum are trying to do every day. They're a healthcare company linking patient care and pharmacy services and using data and technology to drive the whole system so care is connected, not complicated for patients and providers. Things like making it easier to get care that looks at the whole person. From primary care doctors to mental health support and even in home care. And then using technology to make sure they all work together. Technology designed to help doctors spend less time on busy work and more time with their patients and those prescriptions. Optum is working to bring costs down, save patients money and make it easier to get refills. Little by little, Optum is helping make healthcare work as one for everyone. Head to business.optum.com to see how these
- [34:06]
Okta Representative
days it seems like AI agents are just about everywhere you turn every field and every function. But without identity, you can't trust they'll serve your business instead of jeopardizing it. Fortunately, Okta helps you get identity right by securing your AI agents identities, giving you a single layer of control, a single standard of trust. So whether an AI agent supports a single user or your entire enterprise, with Okta you'll turn risk into opportunity. Secure every agent, secure any agent. Okta secures AI.
- [34:45]
Christina Raffini
Welcome back to Bloomberg this weekend. I'm David Gur with Christina Raffini. And Dinosaur skeletons have recently become a horizon hot new asset class coveted by the ultra rich. They're seen as an alternative to traditionally owning a piece of art or a sports franchise.
- [34:58]
David Gura
But with a market that's not yet stable or regulated, problems tend to occur. Bloomberg wealth reporter Devin Pendleton for the Big Take investigated the recent failed auction of the dinosaur shot.
- [35:10]
Devin Pendleton
Shen was a T. Rex that the auction house Christie's announced in 2022, and it was going to be the first T. Rex ever to go on sale in Asia. This was poised to be a major sale. Shen's auction never went forward. About 10 days before the scheduled auction date, Christie's pulled the sale. There are fewer than 50 known t. Rex specimens in the world. So the sudden appearance of Shen out of the blue seeming was a little fishy to a lot of people in the paleontology community, which is small. People know each other, they know the specimens, they know when what's coming to market. So this raised some eyebrows. Peter Larson is a commercial paleontologist and he's sort of a famous figure in the paleontology world. He is a T. Rex expert and he actually led the team that excavated. Stan Larson is a controversial figure. In the 1990s, he served 18 months in federal prison for customs violations related to a fossil discovery. Now when he saw the announcement, he just instantly felt this jolt of recognition. He knew Shen, or at least he knew Shen's skull. When he discovered Stan, he made cast copies of all of Stan's bones. And that's a big part of his business, is selling these cast copies, can sell them to museums, can sell them to private collectors. Basically he sells these bones so that somebody can have A copy of Stan, that's a bone by bone reconstruction without actually having the real bones of Stamp. Ultimately, Christie's did pull Shen from auction. In a statement, Christie said that when questions are raised about a lot that it cannot answer in a timely fashion, the auction house withdraws the lot for further research.
- [36:50]
David Gura
7 Pendleton is here with us. Bloomberg News wealth reporter it is. There's so much unpack here, literally and rhetorically there. It's shocking to me how big of a market this is become so quickly. I remember I first read about this maybe less than a year ago, and it seems like it's only gone up. I was reading in your article Finance your ken Griffin spent $44.6 million on a stegosaurus. Leonardo DiCaprio, Nick Cage, other celebrities have also gotten into these. But when, when one is purchasing a giant dinosaur skeleton, how do you know if it's authentic or not? What are you looking for? Because it sounds like there are a lot of copies out there.
- [37:27]
Devin Pendleton
Potentially there could be potential copies out there. You want to make sure, of course, what you're buying, what you're spending millions of dollars on is authentic. And so there's a lot of paperwork that behind that that you're going to really need to ask for. And by paperwork, you want to know exactly where the dinosaur was found, you want to know the coordinates, and really importantly, you want to see video and photo documentation from the minute a spade was put in the dirt to kind of take this thing out. Because there's funny business that can happen between when the bones come out of the ground and between when they're reconstructed as a specimen that you buy. And you need to be able to track all of it.
- [38:01]
David Gura
That's so funny. It's like a provenance for works in the art world, but this time you want to see the whole process of this thing being excavated.
- [38:08]
Devin Pendleton
Exactly. And provenance is the very word that they use, really.
- [38:11]
David Gura
All right, well, look at that. I knew a thing I do want to ask you. Where did this market come from? How big is it at this point? And do you expect it to grow?
- [38:20]
Devin Pendleton
So the market's really old. I mean, this goes back, of course, since dinosaurs were discovered in the Gilded Age. There's great colorful stories about Gilded Age barons kind of fighting over finding dinosaurs and laying claim to finding great dinosaurs and funding digs. So it's not, it's not new, but certainly it's taken on new velocity in recent years. You could definitely say. I mean, even in recent months, even it's. Who knows where it could go. I mean, this really is sort of worth kind of at the very beginning of this market, is sort of a mature, like, real sort of investable part of the market space where you see auctions, houses really getting into it and putting money behind it and muscle and entire shows and auctions dedicated to this space. Like, there's. There's a lot of potential, has a lot of, you know, buyers and sellers, traders, dealers. Pretty excited.
- [39:10]
David Gura
Is there any kind of regulation? I mean, you talk about commercial fossil brokers in your piece. I didn't know that was a thing. Who was keeping track of where these are coming from, how many of them are? And as you mentioned the piece, like, sometimes you can recognize that that's a skull that you've excavated or that you own, because they have, you were telling me they have very unique qualities and scars or marks and. And they can be identified, certainly.
- [39:33]
Devin Pendleton
Especially if you're talking about the skulls and I mean, especially the T. Rex, right? Yeah, they're very. They're very big and they've had incredibly violent lifestyles. So you're going to see marks from. From disease. You'll see holes that are signs of healed wounds. You might even see gashes, things that look like bite marks. I mean, you're going to see a lot more trauma there than you would like on a human skeleton. And it's not just knowing that you recognize that skull, but there's just not that many of them because there's so few that are really in. That you could put together to be back in one piece, that they're just singular. And they've given them names, too, which really, like, also just, you know, clicks it into your head like, oh, that's Stan. I know that skull.
- [40:15]
David Gura
We've got about 30 seconds left. But why is this a market? What is so compelling about these. These remnants from the past and especially the T. Rex. What is it about these creatures that people are just so drawn to?
- [40:27]
Devin Pendleton
I mean, it's such a. Just part of consciousness. Like, since we were little, they're just. They fascinate everybody. There's really nobody who I've come across in the years working on this story that's not like, dang, that's cool. You know, it's just something very primal in us that finds this fascinating. And the T. Rex is amazing. As someone put it to me, it can just eat you in one bite. There's not a lot of things out there that can do that, and they're just cool.
- [40:49]
David Gura
I have to say, if I had gobs of disposable income. This might bother me.
- [40:54]
Christina Raffini
A dinosaur.
- [40:55]
David Gura
If I had a giant foyer and needed something to put in it like
- [40:58]
Christina Raffini
this, I mean, it'd be a giant foyer. Foyer to those who are watching here in the States.
- [41:04]
David Gura
But either way, whatever you're gonna call it, I want a stegosaurus in it.
- [41:08]
Christina Raffini
All right, sure. I mean, I was. She's talking about the magnetism of these. If you go to like the Natural History Museum here, it is crazy to see them.
- [41:14]
David Gura
They're just incredible. But it's also shocking that they can replicate them so well. Now you can only tell with a ct. Scan it.
- [41:19]
Christina Raffini
Cat scan it.
- [41:22]
Lisa Mateo
Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend, right after this.
- [41:29]
The Hartford Insurance Representative
Support for the show comes from public.com if you're actively involved in your portfolio, you probably catch yourself repeating the same actions. Buying the dip, manually sweeping idle cash, putting on a hedge on public. You can now create AI agents that handle all these tasks on your behalf. Just describe what you want to do in plain English, like if the Vix hits 25, buy a put option on the S&P 500. Or if my cash balance goes above $20,000, move the excess into my direct index. You approve the workflow and your agent handles the risk, monitoring the market, watching for your conditions and executing your strategies exactly as defined. An investing platform driven by your intent, not just your clicks. You can also get full read and write access to your account via the public API. Go to public.com market and fund your account in five minutes or less. That's public.com market paid for by Public
- [42:25]
Public.com Representative
Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, LLC. SEC registered advisor complete disclosures available@public.com disclosures
- [42:39]
Optum Representative
let's talk about healthcare for a second. It doesn't always work the way people expect it to. If you've ever waited on a prescription refill or had a hard time getting the care you needed, you know the feeling the system should just work better for everyone. That's exactly what the people at Optum are trying to do every day. They're a healthcare company linking patient care and pharmacy services and using data and technology to drive the whole system so care is connected, not complicated for patients and providers. Things like making it easier to get care that looks at the whole person, from primary care doctors to mental health support and even in home care. And then using technology to make sure they all work together. Technology designed to help doctors spend less time on busy work and more time with their patients and those Prescriptions. Optum is working to bring costs down, save patients money, and make it easier to get refills. Little by little, Optum is helping make healthcare work as one for everyone. Head to business.optum.com to see how.
- [43:38]
Okta Representative
These days, it seems like AI agents are just about everywhere you turn, every field and every function. But without identity, you can't trust they'll serve your business instead of jeopardizing it. Fortunately, Okta helps you get identity right by securing your AI agents identities, giving you a single layer of control, a single standard of trust. So whether an AI agent supports a single user or your entire enterprise, with Octa, you'll turn risk into opportunity. Secure every agent, secure any agent. Octa secures AI.
- [44:18]
David Gura
All right, you do the intro.
- [44:19]
Christina Raffini
I'm stacking up my. Stacking your chips. It's time for pointed. A special Sunday edition of Pointed. Lisa Mateo off yesterday back here.
- [44:27]
David Gura
She's great, but it is nice to see you.
- [44:28]
Christina Raffini
Yes. And we would not, you know, it would take a lot of training for somebody besides Lisa.
- [44:32]
David Gura
We never pointed without Lisa.
- [44:34]
Christina Raffini
Fairly and efficiently as Lisa runs the game. Pointed, of course. Our weekly news quiz. Lisa, walk us through.
- [44:40]
Lisa Mateo
You were just hoping.
- [44:41]
David Gura
Now it's fair. Now that he's been winning, you're running it fairly. When I was winning, there was controversy
- [44:48]
Christina Raffini
characterized in the trade press as an overwhelming victory for me last week.
- [44:52]
David Gura
Like trade press? Text with your mom.
- [44:55]
Christina Raffini
You know, it's. She freelances for those.
- [44:59]
David Gura
My family watches this very closely, and my father did congratulate you on your victory.
- [45:03]
Christina Raffini
So thank you, Mr. Feeny. I appreciate that. It's classy movie.
- [45:08]
Optum Representative
Disloyal.
- [45:09]
Christina Raffini
Disloyalty.
- [45:10]
Lisa Mateo
In classics, they love G. Okay? So for those of you who are not listening, loyal, and have not heard about.
- [45:15]
Christina Raffini
Welcome to the show.
- [45:16]
Lisa Mateo
Here's how it goes. Here's how the game plays out. Okay? So they each have 30 chips in front of them, okay. Into three different categories. They will place their bets depending on how confident you feel about each category. Okay, so you're gonna place your bets. They have whiteboards here. They're gonna write their answers and reveal them. Our three categories.
- [45:33]
Christina Raffini
What are they?
- [45:34]
Lisa Mateo
Are you ready for them?
- [45:35]
Christina Raffini
I'm ready.
- [45:35]
Lisa Mateo
Okay. First is food.
- [45:36]
Christina Raffini
Food. Okay.
- [45:37]
Lisa Mateo
Second is Smart Home.
- [45:39]
Christina Raffini
Yeah.
- [45:39]
Lisa Mateo
Interesting. Third is Credit cards.
- [45:41]
Christina Raffini
Credit cards.
- [45:42]
Lisa Mateo
Okay. So think about it. How do you want to place?
- [45:46]
Christina Raffini
I don't know much about smart homes.
- [45:48]
Lisa Mateo
You don't?
- [45:49]
David Gura
That was my instinct as well.
- [45:50]
Christina Raffini
I'm gonna double up on credit cards, and I'm gonna go nothing on smart.
- [45:55]
Lisa Mateo
Nothing on smart.
- [45:55]
David Gura
Homes. Christina, I'm gonna regret this, but I'm gonna do the Rafini split. We're gonna.
- [45:59]
Lisa Mateo
We're gonna do any 10 across the
- [46:01]
Christina Raffini
board someday that'll collapse, but, I mean, it has before.
- [46:04]
Okta Representative
Let's see.
- [46:05]
Lisa Mateo
All right, Food. We're going for food. Ready?
- [46:07]
Christina Raffini
Yes.
- [46:08]
Lisa Mateo
Well, on the food one, he does Chipotle. Rolling its burritos into what country? Opening its first location there on Thursday.
- [46:17]
David Gura
I did see this because I thought it was crazy. She's excited.
- [46:21]
Christina Raffini
She's excited. I actually have no ideas.
- [46:24]
Lisa Mateo
Oh, you don't?
- [46:25]
Christina Raffini
Have I mentioned I've been in the field Always?
- [46:26]
Lisa Mateo
What city?
- [46:27]
David Gura
No, we don't care. I don't want to hear about Addison anymore.
- [46:30]
Christina Raffini
Yeah. Okay. I'm going to. To go with.
- [46:31]
Lisa Mateo
Okay, flip it.
- [46:32]
Christina Raffini
Japan.
- [46:33]
David Gura
Japan thought it was Mexico.
- [46:34]
Lisa Mateo
Mexico is correct. Yay.
- [46:36]
Christina Raffini
Because, you know, they're strangers to burritos. I feel they really need Chipotle.
- [46:41]
David Gura
I understand why guys like I like
- [46:43]
Lisa Mateo
Taco Bell tried, and it didn't work.
- [46:45]
David Gura
There was a reason for that.
- [46:46]
Lisa Mateo
Yeah. So they're going to try. They're saying their fresh ingredients are going to make a difference.
- [46:50]
Christina Raffini
Interesting.
- [46:51]
David Gura
Okay. Someone from the Sally's West.
- [46:52]
Christina Raffini
I feel like Mexico knows a thing or two about burritos.
- [46:57]
David Gura
Market makes a better taco than I've ever had in the US So.
- [47:00]
Christina Raffini
All right, all right. I guess I need to think more logic.
- [47:03]
Lisa Mateo
More logically, because now I have David
- [47:06]
Christina Raffini
Gerda's in the lead. Let's see what she knows about smart homes.
- [47:10]
Lisa Mateo
Smart homes. Let's see how smart you are on smart homes. OpenAI developing a physical manifestation of chat GPT for the home. What kind of device is it? What is the name? What is. What kind of device are they developing? This is OpenAI.
- [47:24]
David Gura
Yeah, I might know this one, too.
- [47:25]
Lisa Mateo
A physical.
- [47:26]
David Gura
Ooh.
- [47:27]
Lisa Mateo
Manifestation of chatgpt for the home. What kind of device is it? I love our music.
- [47:34]
Christina Raffini
It's very sick. I don't know.
- [47:35]
Lisa Mateo
I mean, it's like he's erasing.
- [47:37]
Christina Raffini
Yeah, but.
- [47:38]
IBM Business Representative
All right.
- [47:38]
Christina Raffini
I don't know. I was gonna write like I know. Well, you helped me erase last time, which actually helped me. I wrote a pod. You know, like a pod. Like you talk to it. Like the home pod. Like you talk to a speaker.
- [47:49]
David Gura
Like an Alexa.
- [47:50]
Lisa Mateo
Well, since she wrote speaker, she's correct. Called a smart speaker.
- [47:55]
David Gura
But you didn't bet anything on that one.
- [47:56]
Christina Raffini
That's true. I don't really care. I just wanted to.
- [47:58]
David Gura
I was actually going to defend you.
- [47:59]
Christina Raffini
Did you see how I just naturally fought that? Even though I had no skin in the game.
- [48:03]
David Gura
I was about to defend you, and then I realized you had no chips on it. So I would have argued. You got that right.
- [48:07]
Christina Raffini
I was rough on you.
- [48:08]
Lisa Mateo
I'm sorry, David.
- [48:09]
Steve Biegun
Okay.
- [48:09]
Lisa Mateo
All right.
- [48:10]
The Hartford Insurance Representative
I'm going to.
- [48:11]
David Gura
I'm going to continue keeping all my chips over here, but you double stack so you can.
- [48:15]
Lisa Mateo
So he. So we have. Christina's still in lead. Okay. Credit cards. We're moving on to credit cards.
- [48:19]
Christina Raffini
I don't mean to point out errors in the control room, but I did see this question flash across the screen a moment ago.
- [48:23]
Lisa Mateo
Oh, you did? Okay.
- [48:24]
Christina Raffini
I didn't read it. I just want to show everyone I didn't read it.
- [48:26]
David Gura
I didn't see it at all.
- [48:28]
Christina Raffini
But I wish I had. It was there and then gone. And I thought, God, what an edge I could have gotten.
- [48:31]
Lisa Mateo
So close. So close.
- [48:33]
David Gura
Sometimes they put it in the wall behind us and we're both too dumb to look. And the controller will be like, you
- [48:37]
Christina Raffini
know, the answer is but on display.
- [48:39]
David Gura
I say that all the time.
- [48:40]
Lisa Mateo
Ok. Credit cards. Americans filed a record number of what last year? That's the term for petitioning a bank to reverse a credit card transaction. So what do you call that when you petition a bank to reverse a credit card transaction?
- [48:55]
Christina Raffini
What is that called?
- [48:57]
Lisa Mateo
And there was a record number of them.
- [48:58]
Christina Raffini
A record number.
- [48:59]
Lisa Mateo
Record number. People want to get their money back.
- [49:02]
Christina Raffini
Get that money back.
- [49:03]
The Hartford Insurance Representative
Right.
- [49:04]
Lisa Mateo
What do you got?
- [49:05]
David Gura
I think they're called chargebacks.
- [49:06]
Christina Raffini
I wrote disputes.
- [49:07]
Senator Jeanne Shaheen
Chargebacks.
- [49:09]
Christina Raffini
Oh, for God's sake. I feel like it's a synonym. And fewer characters to boot.
- [49:14]
Lisa Mateo
Chargebacks. I don't know.
- [49:16]
David Gura
My desire to defend you on the one where you've bet a bunch is. He's not totally wrong. It is. It is a dispute.
- [49:21]
Christina Raffini
But, you know, come on.
- [49:22]
Lisa Mateo
But that's not what the answer is.
- [49:23]
The Hartford Insurance Representative
I'm sorry.
- [49:23]
Christina Raffini
It's not. I feel like she's done a 180.
- [49:28]
Lisa Mateo
I'm back.
- [49:28]
Christina Raffini
What's ready to go in the week between last week and this one?
- [49:32]
David Gura
First of all, I was too comfortable randomly all topics. I know, and I know about chargebacks because Tell us why. Really hurting. A lot of small makers that I follow complain all the time about them. They like vintage shops or people who sell things, will send someone to something and they will pay like $350 for a handmade jacket. And then the person will say it was bad and get the charge back. And the person who made it, it's very hard for them to get that money back. To get them like the actual person because the bank side with the customer. And these small like makers are getting, they're getting losing a lot of money.
- [50:03]
Christina Raffini
All right.
- [50:04]
Lisa Mateo
It's not good. All right. I think we need a bonus.
- [50:06]
Christina Raffini
We have one bonus. We have what? Limited time.
- [50:08]
Lisa Mateo
Limited time. Public health.
- [50:10]
Christina Raffini
Public health.
- [50:10]
Lisa Mateo
Cyclospora belongs to what broader category of pathogen and it shares the name with a 2019 film.
- [50:18]
Christina Raffini
Yeah, yeah. Okay.
- [50:19]
IBM Business Representative
Oh, oh.
- [50:20]
Lisa Mateo
He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I got this.
- [50:21]
David Gura
I got this.
- [50:21]
Christina Raffini
All right, let's see if we can get your checks.
- [50:24]
David Gura
Bad ones. Parasite, parasite.
- [50:26]
Okta Representative
Ding, ding.
- [50:27]
David Gura
David, Good.
- [50:27]
Christina Raffini
Thank you. I don't know how much you get it back.
- [50:30]
Lisa Mateo
We'll give you all the chips back.
- [50:31]
Christina Raffini
Lisa Mateo, thank you very much.
- [50:33]
David Gura
It's a draw.
- [50:34]
Christina Raffini
She redeems herself in the end.
- [50:35]
David Gura
Lisa Mateo.
- [50:37]
Christina Raffini
Wait a minute while they fight this one out. And I relish.
- [50:40]
David Gura
Where's the review like they have at the world fight.
- [50:43]
Christina Raffini
There's no var in pointed. You can test your knowledge on all 10 questions. Take the Pointed News Quiz@Bloomberg.com pointed and of course, it's available on the Bloomberg Business app.
- [50:52]
David Gura
Thanks for joining us on today's Bloomberg Weekend Podcast. Don't forget to tune in live for the show every Saturday and Sunday morning starting at 7am Eastern.
- [51:00]
Christina Raffini
We're on Bloomberg Television Radio and the Bloomberg Business App, bringing you unique takes and in depth interviews on news, politics, lifestyle and culture.
- [51:13]
The Hartford Insurance Representative
When you're running a business, the best days are the ones where priorities stay on track. For midsize and large companies, risk can affect multiple parts of the organization at once, from property and liability to cyber and regulatory challenges. At that level, managing risk becomes an ongoing discipline. At the Hartford, the focus is on helping businesses manage risk before it turns into something more disruptive. And when losses do happen, that work is paired with insurance coverage shaped by years of underwriting, risk engineering and claims experience. Learn more@thehartford.com RiskMitigation risk policies provided by Hartford Fire Insurance Company and its property and casualty affiliates, Hartford, Connecticut.
- [51:53]
Okta Representative
These days, it seems like AI agents are just about everywhere you turn, every field and every function. But without identity, you can't trust they'll serve your business instead of jeopardizing it. Fortunately, Okta helps you get identity right by securing your AI agents identities, giving you a single layer of control, a single standard of trust. So whether an AI agent supports a single user or your entire enterprise, with Okta you'll turn risk into opportunity. Secure every agent, secure any agent. Okta secures AI.
- [52:24]
Michigan Business Promotion Representative
As industries evolve faster than ever, companies need an environment that accelerates strategic growth, and Michigan delivers on that promise. From emerging startups to global enterprises, Michigan offers what executives value most a resilient, innovative ecosystem, diverse communities that attract top talent, and a quality of life life that supports work life. Balance with our unified T. Michigan approach, businesses scale faster and compete at the highest level. Michigan Pure Opportunity Seize your opportunity@MichiganBusiness.org.