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- [00:00]
Cincinnati Insurance Narrator
If you follow markets, you know the value of long term thinking. You plan, you diversify, you prepare for volatility. But even the best strategies can't prevent every bad day. For more than 75 years, Cincinnati Insurance has helped individuals and businesses navigate tough moments with expertise, personal attention and independent agents who focus on relationships, not transactions. The Cincinnati Insurance companies Let them make your bad day better. Find an agent@cin fin.com the thing about AI for business?
- [00:38]
IBM AI Representative
It may not automatically fit the way your business works. At IBM, we've seen this firsthand. But by embedding AI across hr, IT and procurement processes, we've reduced costs by millions, slash repetitive tasks, and freed thousands of hours for strategic work. Now we're helping companies get smarter by putting AI where it actually pays off, deep in the work that moves the business. Let's create smarter business.
- [01:04]
Cincinnati Insurance Narrator
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- [02:00]
David Gura
Thanks for joining us for today's selection of conversations from the show.
- [02:03]
Christina Raffini
You can listen to our favorite discussions right here on the podcast, but also make sure to join us live every Saturday and Sunday morning starting at 7am Eastern.
- [02:11]
Lisa Mateo
We're on Bloomberg Television Radio and the Bloomberg Business app, bringing you unique takes and in depth interviews on news, politics, lifestyle and culture.
- [02:23]
Christina Raffini
President Trump has confirmed US Negotiators are heading to Pakistan tomorrow for meetings that will start on Tuesday. And this trade of Hormuz remains a key sticking point between the US And Iran as the key energy choke point remains closed. Back with us is Bloomberg's White House correspondent Courtney Subramanian. And Courtney, if your phone rings during the course of this interview, the President has talked to Jonathan Karl. He's talked to Fox News, he's talked to Ms. Now if your phone rings and you need to take it, nothing here on mine as well. Take the call if you need to. We will proceed without you. Until then though, you have been synthesizing all that the President has been saying in these phone interviews. Give us the latest on what we know of these meetings, the second round of talks that are going to be taking place here in Pakistan as the week, as the week begins.
- [03:02]
Courtney Subramanian
Yeah, as you mentioned, he's given a series of interviews this morning. He's taken to Truth Social. He's trying to set the tone of what to expect in the coming days, and that is that. Special envoy's State of Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner will return to Islamabad tomorrow evening for talks. He has just told Ms. Now that JD Vance is not attending those talks for security reasons. I have, actually, while we're sitting here, texting the vice President's staff to try and confirm that. But I think all of this just underscores in the last 72 hours just how much whiplash we're seeing here and just underscores the unpredictable nature of this conflict and the erratic and sometimes contradictory messaging we've seen from the President. I think it's important to remember that Friday he told us that an agreement was all but agreed to, which included concessions that Iran had never publicly agreed to. He even told ABC that he trusted the Iranians. And then, of course, he crucially left the blockade of the strait in place until an agreement was finalized, which prompted Tehran to close the strait again and set this whole off, this whole situation off. And now we're seeing him again threaten Iranian power plants and bridges if they don't take the deal again, escalating the rhetoric ahead of negotiations, which is, of course, a tactic we've seen him use over and over again in this conflict.
- [04:37]
David Gura
Courtney, one of the things I found interesting is having covered the first Trump administration, as we all did, when, when they pulled out of the Iran nuclear deal the first time, and even on the campaign trail leading up to that, the President was so critical of Iran, saying they couldn't be trusted, they could never be trusted to get into any kind of nuclear deal and stick to it. They couldn't be trusted as negotiators. You know, where has that changed? Why has that changed? And why is the President suddenly willing to. To take them at their word in these negotiations in pursuit of a deal that seems like it's going to look very much like the one he pulled out of in the first place?
- [05:12]
Courtney Subramanian
That's a great question. I do think that the President is looking for an off ramp. I think he is realizing the economic repercussions are really bearing out both globally. But here at home, as we look ahead to November and we see Americans really start to feel the economic pain of this at the gas pump. Right. And so this time, you know, this is a situation of his making, and he is looking for any opportunity to bring this conflict to an end and move on. And so I think that has allowed him to sort of vacillate between this escalating rhetoric where he's really ramping up pressure, but then taking the Iranians at their word that they're going to come to the table and agree to a deal. But as you know, the Iranians are very good at dragging out negotiations.
- [06:04]
David Gura
All right, Courtney Subramanian, our White House correspondent, thank you so much for joining us this morning. Joining us now is former Defense Secretary Mark Esper. He served in President Trump's first administration. Mr. Secretary, thank you for being with us. The first question I want to ask you is when you look at this negotiating team, Steve Witkoff, Jared Kushner, it looks like Vice President Vance, we're learning this morning, will not be going for the second round of negotiations. Do you think they're up to the task?
- [06:30]
Mark Esper
Well, they have the president's trust, so in that regard, they are up to the task. Though I assume that the Iranians will interpret the vice president not coming as a downgrading of this next round of talks, which could be the last round of talks for anytime soon. And so they may pull back on their delegation, which I think it's going to be hard to get a deal done, at least a deal in principle for that reason. And then if you're going to believe the president, then the president says the attacks will begin. Following that, if the talks fell, if they don't sign the deal, I think is what he literally said. If they don't sign the deal on Tuesday before the, before the cease fire, then he's going to go after their energy, after their infrastructure, after their power plants.
- [07:09]
Christina Raffini
Mr. Secretary, I want to ask you about the chronology here. So we had the announcement from the Iranian foreign minister that the strait was open on Friday morning. Then a few hours later, we saw a great deal of confusion so on, as the president indicated that blockade was going to stay in place. And that's kind of where I want to go with you is the role of that blockade going forward here, the importance of it as you see it. Is it something that you see as being negotiable here? Do you think it will be negotiated upon at those meetings in Islamabad?
- [07:33]
Mark Esper
Well, I think, first of all, part of the blockade with regard to Iran, when the foreign minister came out, what he did say is it would be it was lifted. But he mentioned the conditions. And the conditions, of course, were still that shipping had to follow this new route, which was close to the Iranian coastline between their islands, and that it would be managed by the irgc, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. But that wasn't reported as loudly. It was just that they had opened it. And then, of course, there was a lot of friction within Iran with the hardliners saying that the foreign minister had overstepped his bounds. It was the wrong message. And in fact, they were going to do all those things plus charge tolls. And that caused the counter reaction. Look, I think President Trump putting the blockade on Iran a few days ago was a smart move. I think there's no reason why Iran should allow be allowed to reap the benefits of oil revenues coming out of the Gulf and sustain its fight while shipping from friendly countries is not allowed to go. So I thought that mate was smart. I think it's what put pressure on the Iranians. And I was a little surprised that he didn't lift it when they lifted it. But nonetheless, we are where we are this morning with both sides clamping down on control of the strait. And it effectively bottled up at this point in time once again.
- [08:47]
David Gura
And what do you make of the president's renewed threats here this morning? He says he will go after every single PowerPoint and every single bridge in Iran. No more M. Nice guy. Do you consider that a war crime? And what does it mean for the state as a whole? David was asking earlier, wouldn't that just lead to a failed state if there's no infrastructure left, there's no power center left, there's no ability to have a democracy in Iran.
- [09:09]
Mark Esper
Well, first of all, that's his negotiating style, right? To, to. To threaten to and to amp up the rhetoric and maybe force them to step down or at least reconsider their position, the Iranians. And so. And so he's going back to where he was just about a week ago, I think, in terms of timing. So that's not surprising. You know, this question with regard to war crimes, it all depends on how the planners, the targeteers and the lawyers look at different targets, whether it's a power plant or a bridge or a highway and how close its connection is to the military. So, for example, if you have a power plant sitting on a military base powering that base, then it's a legitimate target. As you get further and further away from such direct connectivity, then it becomes more dubious. And so I think they're gonna have. The military's gonna have to work through all those different issues, case by case, target by target, to come to that final understanding, if indeed that is where the military goes in this next phase.
- [10:06]
Christina Raffini
I think the thing that has led to a lot of the fogginess we've experienced over the last 36 or 48 hours is just not being able to get a sense of the degree to which what the president is saying the Iranians have agreed to is, in fact, what they have agreed to. And you know, well, the difficulties of engaging in any kind of diplomacy or negotiations with Iran, with Iranians. Of course, you were in the first term when the president pulled out of the jcpoa. Talk a bit about that, if you would. The way the US can verify what in fact, the Iranians are actually saying they're doing what they have done. Yes, perhaps this will be haggled out over the table there in Islamabad. But leading up to it, how do we know what we know to ask a very basic and cumbersome question.
- [10:41]
Mark Esper
Yeah, look, it's tough. I mean, obviously the president raises expectations with some of the things he says. Maybe he's picking up spot reports from his advisors, which maybe is missing some nuance, but nonetheless, the expectation was real, or as the president's been saying, that we're very, very close to a deal, that it's that they want it really badly. And then what you hear coming out of Iran as recently as the last 24 hours, where the lead negotiator, Speaker Gallub, has said, yes, progress was made in Islamabad last week, but we are far from a. There are significant differences between our negotiating positions. Now he's lead negotiator, and I'm paraphrasing. And so. But that shows there's a much bigger gap. Now, look, I'll also say that what the Iranians say publicly to the west and what they say privately to their own people are two different things because they're trying to manage domestic audience. So it is hard to parse through what's going on. But when I look at each side's negotiating positions, going Back to the 15 points proposed by President Trump and the 10 points proposed by the Iranians, I just see few areas of agreement. The big issue is there's a major disagreement when it comes to nuclear enrichment, when it comes to returning the nuclear fuel, when it comes to what's going to be the future of the Strait of Hormuz. I mean, when we talked yesterday about what the foreign minister said and what the IRGC is saying is the new normal they want to establish is that they have sovereignty over the strait and they will control and manage who goes through, and they will impose tolls, much like what happens at the Panama Canal. And that's clearly something we, the west, cannot tolerate. So I think this is just going to have to play out over the coming days. I still see the positions, based on my historical understanding of where both sides are, as too far apart to get a deal here in the next 48, 72 hours.
- [12:28]
David Gura
Do you think this conflict was a strategic blunder by the US Given that Iran has now figured out even if it gives up its nuclear program, it has a more powerful card to play
- [12:37]
Christina Raffini
in closing the straits, at least economically.
- [12:41]
Mark Esper
You know, you can't tally the score until the game's over. And, you know, right now, obviously, we've had considerable progress at the military level, which, with regard to taking down the military objectives of defeating their navy, degrading their air defense, their air force, so forth and so on. But at this point in time, at the strategic level, we know that Iran is still refusing to yield to our nuclear demands. And that was ostensibly the reason why we got into this conflict eight weeks, weeks ago, if you recall, in Geneva, Witkoff and Kushner said, look, the Iranians aren't serious on the nuclear issue. We need to try something different. And that's when Operation Epic Fury was lost, was launched. I'm sorry, but would you agree with
- [13:26]
David Gura
this operation in your time, if the President came to you when you were running the Pentagon, would you have said this was a good idea?
- [13:33]
Mark Esper
Well, this happened at times during my tenure. I would say, look, these are the things we can do. But wars are unpredictable. Once you get into them, it's easy to get in, but hard to get out. And I talk about this a lot in my memoir about how we would have these discussions, and it would be myself and the chairman warning about getting into a conflict without positioning troops in advance, without being prepared for a ground war, and without being prepared for all these other consequences we're seeing. So that's. Look, I felt that was my job. A, to prepare plans to go to war, make sure the force is ready, but B, give my best advice with regard to the pros and cons. And, you know, there's been documentation about the President's advisors being at various positions on this with regard to getting it. But the view is he felt emboldened after what happened last June with Midnight Hammer, with the Venezuela operation, and was maybe convinced that if he did this operation decapitated the government, they might fall and clearly it didn't.
- [14:29]
Christina Raffini
Let me ask you lastly about Lebanon, which of course, has been such a crucial issue here. And we have headlines this morning from Israel's defense minister saying he and Benjamin Netanyahu have instructed the IDF to act with all force from the ground, from the air, even during the cease fire to protect our soldiers in Lebanon from, from any threat. A crucial issue here for the US Is the degree to which they and Israel are going to be on the same page. How big a challenge is that going to be going forward here?
- [14:53]
Mark Esper
Well, Israel clearly has different goals than we have when it comes to both Iran and Lebanon. And the Lebanon issue has been dragging on for the Israelis as long as Hezbollah has been in existence since the early 1980s. So and this isn't the first time that there's been some type of agreement or commitment by the Lebanese government to disarm Hezbollah, to move him back up north. So look, I think Israel clearly wants to go in and push the Hezbollah further north of the Latani river, disarm them once again, take out their leadership. But they're playing to President Trump's fiddle right now because Trump wants a deal. And to get the deal, he had to push them to have a ceasefire with the Lebanese, with Hezbollah, to be more specific, in order to get the Iranians to back down a little bit. So I think the question will be is if the ceasefire between the United States and Iran breaks down in three days, will the ceasefire between Hezbollah and Israel also break down? That'll be an important point to watch.
- [15:46]
David Gura
I mean, very quickly, what do you think will happen? Do you think it will break down
- [15:52]
Mark Esper
where the rhetoric is this morning, I see it very hard to get an agreement in 48 hours. So my sense is the president might be forced to launch some type of military tax to live up to what he said rather than kind of yielding or extending the agreement. But who knows? We'll see.
- [16:06]
David Gura
Thank you so much for taking time. Former Defense Secretary Mark Esper joining us this morning.
- [16:12]
Christina Raffini
Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend. Right after this
- [16:18]
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- [17:15]
Cincinnati Insurance Narrator
If you follow markets, you know the value of long term thinking. You plan, you diversify, you prepare for volatility. But in life, even the best strategies can't prevent every bad day a fire, a loss, a disruption that demands immediate attention. When that happens, what matters isn't just what you planned. It's who shows up. That's where Cincinnati Insurance comes in. For more than 75 years, they've helped individuals and businesses navigate life's toughest moments with care, expertise and personal attention. Together with independent agents, Cincinnati Insurance focuses on relationships, not transactions. Their approach is grounded in experience, follow through and trust built over time. Bad days happen and when they do, you deserve an insurance partner who understands risk, respects what you've built and is ready to help you move forward. The Cincinnati insurance companies, let them make your bad day better. Find an independent agent at Cin Fin.
- [18:16]
IBM AI Representative
The thing about AI for business, it may not automatically fit the way your business works. At IBM, we've seen this firsthand. But by embedding AI across hr, IT and procurement processes, we've reduced costs by millions, slash repetitive tasks, and freed thousands of hours for strategic work. Now we're helping companies get smarter by putting AI where it actually pays off, deep in the work that moves the business. Let's create smarter business. IBM.
- [18:55]
David Gura
President Trump says special envoy Steve Witkoff will head to Islamabad for talks on Tuesday that could last until Wednesday after Iran reversed its decision to reopen shipping through the Strait of Hormuz. Energy Secretary Chris Wright was on CNN State of the Union earlier and had this day to say about negotiations.
- [19:10]
Mark Caputo
Negotiations are going very well.
- [19:13]
Mark Esper
A lot of the chatter and noise
- [19:14]
Mark Caputo
you hear in public is really the
- [19:16]
Mark Esper
signs of a regime that's falling apart.
- [19:18]
Mark Caputo
Different factions go in different directions.
- [19:21]
Mark Esper
They're worried about trying to get some leverage at the end of these negotiations. I think President Trump and Vice President Vance have us on a pathway to a good ending of this conflict before long.
- [19:32]
Christina Raffini
Join us now is access is White House reporter Mark Caputo and Atlantic staff writer Nancy Yousef. Mark, let me start with you and just get your read of the latest here, the President making the rounds over the course of the morning, indicating that Steve Witkoff, Jared Kushner can be the point people going to these talks. Curious what you make of that. The latest there and sort of what you think will be notably different at this meeting compared to the one that took place between J.D. vance and his running counterparts last week.
- [19:56]
Mark Caputo
Well, I have no idea what's going to be notably different. One of the things that seems to be a through line is everything seems to be notably the same. The only through line we have so far is that there's generally a cease fire between the United States and Iran, between Israel and Lebanon, but otherwise, everyone keeps claiming that progress is being made. But what's really happening as a result? We've had a few things in Axios that we had reported. One, that there is an idea out there that the US had started to advance of providing Iran access to its frozen assets, its currency, bank accounts, essentially of about $20 billion in return for them giving up uranium to the United States. It's highly rich uranium stockpiles. The Iranians wanted more money, and then the president came out and said he wasn't going to do this. However, there remain the very big issues, which is Iran has highly enriched uranium. The United States has access to Iran's money and has basically frozen them out from it. That's a possible trade item. Iran has closed the Strait of Hormuz. The United States wants it open and has a blockade. Those things seem tradable. And then more broadly, the United States has lots of weaponry and sanctions against Iran. Iran funds terrorist proxy groups like Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis. And so that also seems to be a trade item. But so far, we have not seen anything in writing that clearly shows what's up for trade, what's up for discussion, what the progress is. So until then, you have statements from President Trump and what you just played there, Energy Secretary Chris Wright saying all this progress is happening. And then you have the Iranians saying, no, no, it's not. We do know they're talking because obviously they're talking and also they're not shooting.
- [21:37]
David Gura
I do need to ask you, as we were speaking, your Axios colleague, Brock Ravid was now contradicting the president, who said earlier that Vice President J.D. vance would not be attending these talks. Axios is now reporting that Vice President J.D. vance will lead the U.S. delegation for another round of talks in Islamabad. I know you've been on with us, but I didn't know if you'd heard that as well, and what you said,
- [21:57]
Mark Caputo
I didn't want to come out and say it because I wasn't sure if it had come out yet. It would, it would be a shocking breach of protocol if JD Vance were not there. So when you just listed those two names and didn't list J.D. vance, I was rather surprised. Yes. J.D. vance is the lead negotiator. He's supposed to be, and he's going to be taking that role here as well.
- [22:13]
David Gura
All right, Nancy, let's go to you. I want to talk to you about some of the mixed messaging we're getting, not just from the administration, but also on the Iranian side as well. We've had influence fighting between IRGC members and political, more political elites. We've had this very bellicose tweet this morning or social media post from the president threatening to once again take out Iran's bridges and power plants. But at the same time, going back to talks and saying things are progressing and they think that the US can get a deal. What is going on here?
- [22:44]
Nancy Yousef
So you make a very important point because over the end of the weekend, or at least on Friday, we saw talks about a ceasefire from the foreign minister for only the state news media to say that actually the ayatollah was on board. And the reason that was significant, not just because it impacts the talks, but it was the first real break we'd seen or fissures within the regime, something we've been looking for as a sign of potential fractures for the regime. And so that was noteworthy. But I think you get at a very important point. Point is we're also seeing some broken patterns in the United States where the president, facing challenges in terms of reaching a strategic outcome that is beneficial to the United States, is turning back to tactical threats. We saw this earlier with the threat to kill a civilization. And now, as you note in this latest social media post, he threatened to strike Iranian infrastructure. In addition to being a violation to the Geneva Conventions, doing so doesn't answer the ultimate question that the US Is trying to resolve, which is how to get the strategic outcome that they want. And so it feels to me that we're on a cycle in which we're trying to leverage the US Military superiority to reach an understanding of what we want to achieve through these war aims. And as your colleague noted, there are a lot of things that the United States and Iran are trying to achieve. The nuclear program, reopening the strait, sanctions, relief. What would happen with proxies, the Iranian proxies on the war in Lebanon, the last time there were serious negotiations about this. It took nearly two years to reach an agreement on just one component of it. And so I know there's been a back and forth today about whether the Vice President is attending and what that means. I'm also curious if there will be more technical experts in this next round of negotiations because in the past these negotiations were successful not when the top sort of headline making attendees were there, but when the experts were able to work out these details such that when folks like the Vice President or the President's top negotiator came to the table, it wasn't to iron out the these very, very specific points, but to really sort of put the final signature on it. So I'm curious if we'll see a different tactic in terms of how the United States approaches these talks not just through who's attending from the White House, but who's attending from government agencies that could really help get to a resolution.
- [25:20]
Christina Raffini
Mark, we've got about a minute left, but I do want to ask you about your reporting on what's happening with Cuba because the President has maintained that that's still very much a live issue for him going forward here. I'm struck. The last time I sat down with Cuba's ambassador to the UN he was reluctant to tell me with whom the Cubans had been meeting, wouldn't say if it was Secretary Rubio or others. We now know that there has been a meeting. Give us in this minute that we have left the latest that you know of the status of those conversations as the President's threats continue.
- [25:44]
Mark Caputo
Friday before last eight days ago, a high level State Department delegation went down to Havana, touched down in Havana. First time United States government plan had done that since 2016. When President Obama went. They had meetings with the Cuban officials, Cuban apparatchiks, as well as the grandson of Raul Castro, known as Raulito, also nicknamed El Congrejo, the Crab. And they basically delivered the United States long standing message that you need to have economic and democratic reforms, free political prisoners and start discussing returning seized assets that were taken during the revolution to US Persons and corporate interests. In return, the United States didn't offer much. They offered to help set up Starlink to increase Internet access. They also made very clear the United States did to the Cubans that if there's a huge problem and a humanitarian crisis or societal collapse in Cuba, the United States is not going to stand idly by. That's not a direct threat, but boy, it's an indirect one.
- [26:41]
David Gura
All right, we're going to have to leave it there. Mark Puto, White House reporter for Axios, and Nancy Yousef with the Atlantic. Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend. Right after this
- [26:54]
4imprint Advertiser
Deadlines move, plans change and sometimes opportunities pop up out of nowhere when you need branded gear fast, 4imprint is ready to deliver. 4imprint offers hundreds of promotional products in their 24 hour category. Everything from custom apparel bags and drinkware to writing tools, trade show staples and high tech gear. At 4imprint, they're focused on getting the details right, printing your logo with precision, packing your order with care and shipping it out fast. And it's backed by their 360 degree guarantee. That's 4imprint's promise. Your order will show up right on time, just the way you planned it. That's what it means to be four Imprint certain. So if you're prepping for a last minute event or jumping on a big opportunity, you don't have to settle or scramble. With four Imprint fast, reliable service and peace of mind are built right in. Check out their full 24 hour selection at 4imprint.com 4imprint for certain.
- [27:51]
Cincinnati Insurance Narrator
If you follow markets, you know the value of long term thinking. You plan, you diversify, you prepare for volatility. But even the best strategies can't prevent every bad day. For more than 75 years, Cincinnati Insurance has helped individuals and businesses navigate tough moments. With expertise, personal attention and independent agents who focus on relationships, not transactions, the Cincinnati insurance companies let them make your bad day better. Find an agent@cin fin.com the thing about
- [28:27]
IBM AI Representative
AI for business, it may not automatically fit the way your business works. At IBM we've seen this firsthand. But by embedding AI across hr, it's and procurement processes, we've reduced cost by millions, slash repetitive tasks and freed thousands of hours for strategic work. Now we're helping companies get smarter by putting AI where it actually pays off, deep in the work that moves the business. Let's create smarter business. IBM.
- [29:05]
Christina Raffini
Birthdays this Wednesday, April 22nd. And of course, one of the biggest threats to the planet is climate change. According to a recent study, climate change could cost the world economy some $38 trillion per year by the middle of the century.
- [29:17]
David Gura
And of course, climate change also impacts the food we eat, how we eat it, how we get it. And joining us now is award winning chef, TV host and restaurateur Andrew Zimmern. He's also the author of a new cookbook, the Blue Food Delicious Seafood Recipes for a Sustainable Future. Andrew, thank you so much for joining us.
- [29:35]
Andrew Zimmern
Thank you. Great to be here.
- [29:36]
David Gura
So Explain to us Blue foods, is that like blue zones, we talk about those for health or what does this mean? And why did you want to write this?
- [29:45]
Andrew Zimmern
No, that's, that's my buddy Dan Buettner's book, which is great. In an odd turn of consequences, the production company that I own produces his podcast and he's one of my best friends. A great book. And you should buy that too.
- [29:58]
David Gura
So you're like, blue works for him. I'm going to use it as well. I got it.
- [30:01]
Andrew Zimmern
Exactly. Well, exactly. The United nations used this term over a decade ago and then nobody else did. And my co author, Barton Seaver, and our collaborators at Fed by Blue, who helped vet all the technical information in the book, we all felt it was really important to come up with a way to talk about food that comes from water fish, shellfish, lake fish, brook trout, seaweeds, very importantly, and be able to talk about them from a global perspective as opposed to green foods and green economies, which are obviously terrestrial. If we want to combat climate change, if we want to feed a hungrier planet, if we want to do so economically, and we want to make sure that hunger is, is something that is statistically eliminated on planet Earth, which is actually possible to do, there is a path to success for that, then that all the solutions start with blue foods and our water systems, most importantly, because we have to protect them, but we also have to produce from them at the same time. Every second breath we take comes from the ocean. And by working on the ocean and working in the ocean and all of our water systems, we can do a better job of protecting it and producing from it at the same time.
- [31:31]
Christina Raffini
We're going to ask about at least one recipe here in a moment. But let me just ask you about when I go to the store and buy seafood, what should I be looking for? In other words, in the spirit of going after blue foods, what are the best things for me to target or purchase as a food eating consumer here in America in 2026, you should simply
- [31:50]
Andrew Zimmern
ask the person who's behind the counter or wearing the red vest if they're stocking the frozen aisle or the canned aisle. Because remember, responsibly sourced seafoods that are properly handled are in three places in your markets. But, but ask the person you know about the catch of the day. Ask about what's fresh. Ask most importantly, is it responsibly sourced? The questions that people ask themselves with, with, with fish and shellfish all the time is fresh or frozen, wilder farmed. And those questions are really Irrelevant. There's. There are bad actors in the fresh and frozen space. There are bad actors in the farmed and the wild fisheries management space, but the good actors far outweigh them.
- [32:43]
David Gura
Well, there's a recipe in here for chocolate chip kelp brownies. Seafood can be a dessert. Any other outliers that you think might take some convincing, but you're gonna stand by?
- [32:54]
Andrew Zimmern
Well, seaweed and dessert is just a great way to get something super healthy into your body. The FAO and the OMB all estimate that by 2045, which is 19 years from now, we will produce more seafood by weight in America than we will potatoes. Think about that. Seaweed is the food of the future. It requires very little equipment, and it is all a plus side. I would encourage people to be eating nutritious, oily fish that are good for our brain health and our body's development. A sardine, a fresh sardine, but also a tin one, are literally perfect foods when it comes to our health. We need to be incorporating more foods like that into our diets.
- [33:41]
Christina Raffini
I want to ask you lastly, just about the changes that we've seen in terms of availability of fish, lobster bivalves as well. Climate change is having a role there. How do you think about that in the context of what you're advocating, people leader or go after? How much is that landscape changing?
- [33:57]
Andrew Zimmern
Well, it changes all the time, which is why I've been calling for, in America for, you know, one national agency to help us monitor seafood. Right now we have an Alphabet soup of different agencies, all of which are doing good jobs, but nobody is really talking to each other. It's also why I've advocated for a Secretary of Food, a cabinet level position. Food and food adjacent businesses are one of the largest sections of gdp. You know, independent restaurants alone, forget about farms and all of the food production companies, but just independent restaurants alone is about 6% of GDP. We have food decisions being made by six different Alphabet agencies in Washington D.C. alone. So I think we need to centralize all that under one office. I think the other thing that we need to do is we need to remember that the oceans are always changing. What's available one day is not available the other. Lobsters are marching north to colder climates. So are crabs in search of food. And I think what people should do is they should be communicating more with the person behind the counter at a supermarket, at a big box store, or at a fish store about what that store thinks they should be eating. Let them right now be the gatekeepers for you. Eat lower on the food chain and try to make sure that you become a good global citizen. To answer David's question more exactly, shop the fish, not the dish. If you go into the market and you're gonna make fish and chips with cod, and cod's not there, ask the person behind the counter, hey, I was gonna make fish and chips with cod. There's no cod. What should I use instead? Let those people help be your guidepost. Shop the dish, not the fish.
- [35:43]
David Gura
All right, I think we're gonna have to leave it there. Thank you so much.
- [35:46]
Andrew Zimmern
Have a great day.
- [35:47]
Lisa Mateo
All right.
- [35:47]
David Gura
The book is the Blue Food Cookbook, Delicious Seafood Recipes for a Sustainable Future.
- [35:52]
Lisa Mateo
Stay with more on Bloomberg this weekend right after this
- [35:59]
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- [38:11]
Christina Raffini
Good news now. This week, it's pointed News Quiz. The news quiz for risk takers, David
- [38:15]
David Gura
is back this week. Have you been practicing or studying?
- [38:19]
Christina Raffini
As much as I can. You know, I read regularly and you know Tim beat you.
- [38:23]
David Gura
My very first loss. Tim.
- [38:24]
Christina Raffini
Tell me more.
- [38:25]
David Gura
But I was reveling in this. However, we have a guest star.
- [38:29]
Christina Raffini
We do.
- [38:30]
David Gura
Playing along with us back.
- [38:33]
Mark Caputo
I think this is probably like the most dread and nervous I felt in my career.
- [38:38]
David Gura
Tim and Joe felt the same way. But it'll be fine. It'll be fine. Lisa, our quiz master will make you look good.
- [38:43]
Lisa Mateo
Okay, let me explain it to you because you're new to this ED. Okay, so basically we have three different categories. Okay. Okay, so you have 10, 10, 10, 30 chips in front of you. Okay, nice. What you do with those chips, you figure out how confident you are with each category. If you know the first category, you're gonna put 10 chips, you're gonna put 20 chips, maybe 30, maybe 30 all in one. It depends.
- [39:04]
David Gura
But if you're really confident on one, you can slide them over.
- [39:06]
Lisa Mateo
I'll ask you the question, you write it on your board, and I'll tell you guys to flip it and we'll see who gets right and wrong.
- [39:11]
Christina Raffini
Okay, if he's wrong, what happens? You take the chips.
- [39:13]
Lisa Mateo
And if you're wrong, I get your chips.
- [39:14]
Christina Raffini
Okay.
- [39:14]
Mark Caputo
Okay.
- [39:15]
David Gura
And a little piece of your soul.
- [39:17]
Mark Caputo
Fair trade.
- [39:18]
Christina Raffini
That is a fair trade.
- [39:19]
Lisa Mateo
Okay, so let's get to the categories. Categories. Okay, first category is investigations. Second category, business leader. And third category, cons.
- [39:32]
Mark Caputo
Does cons mean like pro and cons or con artists or convictions?
- [39:37]
Lisa Mateo
Okay, thank you.
- [39:39]
Christina Raffini
Not that I'm an expert in any of those, but it's good to ask. Yeah, it's like asking the spelling bee to spell the word correct in the sentence.
- [39:47]
Lisa Mateo
Okay, are you ready for the first question about this? How are we betting? How are we betting?
- [39:51]
Christina Raffini
I put nothing on the first one.
- [39:51]
Lisa Mateo
You put nothing on the first one. Christina has 10.
- [39:54]
Mark Caputo
Go five.
- [39:55]
Lisa Mateo
No, you can't go five.
- [39:56]
David Gura
Let's do it in 10.
- [39:57]
Lisa Mateo
Come on.
- [39:57]
Mark Caputo
Oh, I say I can't literally half heartedly do it.
- [40:01]
Christina Raffini
Let's go 10, 10.
- [40:02]
Mark Caputo
All right, 10.
- [40:02]
Andrew Zimmern
Okay.
- [40:03]
Lisa Mateo
Okay, so you're going 10 on the first. So 10, 10, 10. Okay, good. All right, here we go. The question is Begonia Gomez was charged with influence peddling and commercial bribery. Her husband is which country's premier. Oh, her name is Begonia Gomez.
- [40:20]
Christina Raffini
I.
- [40:21]
Lisa Mateo
Her husband is which country's premier.
- [40:24]
David Gura
Which country.
- [40:25]
Christina Raffini
I really.
- [40:28]
Lisa Mateo
No, come on, David.
- [40:29]
Christina Raffini
All right, this is red is.
- [40:32]
Mark Caputo
Sorry, we all radio audience.
- [40:34]
Christina Raffini
I also love the music, which is the reason I like to ask.
- [40:36]
Lisa Mateo
He does. Okay, flip it. What do you got, David? Let's start with David.
- [40:39]
Christina Raffini
You got Colombia.
- [40:40]
Lisa Mateo
Colombia, Christina.
- [40:41]
David Gura
Spain.
- [40:42]
Lisa Mateo
Ed. Spain is the answer.
- [40:44]
Christina Raffini
I bet none.
- [40:45]
Mark Esper
I bet none.
- [40:46]
Andrew Zimmern
For the record, David, I read the news and watch the television guru only.
- [40:52]
Lisa Mateo
So you didn't bet anything, David. Okay, so you're winning it.
- [40:54]
Christina Raffini
We're doing well.
- [40:55]
Lisa Mateo
We're doing well. We're doing well.
- [40:56]
Christina Raffini
We're winning.
- [40:59]
Lisa Mateo
We're against David. Here we go. Next one category. Business leaders. Are you ready? Okay.
- [41:03]
Mark Caputo
Oh, hold on.
- [41:04]
Andrew Zimmern
Sorry.
- [41:04]
David Gura
Yes.
- [41:05]
Lisa Mateo
Are you going with 10 for business leaders?
- [41:06]
Mark Caputo
Yes.
- [41:07]
Lisa Mateo
10 again. Okay, good. You're going with 20 for business leaders. Okay, Big money.
- [41:12]
David Gura
Big money.
- [41:13]
Lisa Mateo
A man allegedly threw a Molotov cocktail at the San Francisco home of which business figure. What was the name of this business figure?
- [41:25]
David Gura
It's the other one that's gonna be. It's the other one. It's the two. If it's one of them, it's the other one. I'm gonna be mad.
- [41:30]
Mark Caputo
Ooh.
- [41:31]
Lisa Mateo
All right, we're all ready. Flip it.
- [41:33]
Christina Raffini
Sam Altman.
- [41:33]
Lisa Mateo
Sam Altman. Sam Altman. Sam Altman all over. Yay. Everybody got it. Okay. Good, good, good, good. All right, excellent.
- [41:39]
Christina Raffini
For the record, I've got 20 points
- [41:40]
Lisa Mateo
for that, but they still have their.
- [41:43]
Christina Raffini
Their 20 as well.
- [41:44]
Lisa Mateo
22. So we're all tied up here.
- [41:46]
Christina Raffini
All right, this is a big.
- [41:46]
Mark Caputo
Should have had more conviction that I was going to do a good job.
- [41:51]
Lisa Mateo
You should have known that one.
- [41:53]
David Gura
Well, you're not there yet, Ed.
- [41:55]
Lisa Mateo
All right, are you ready for the cons? Okay. This is like one the French city. Oh, no, no. Okay, the founder comment.
- [42:03]
David Gura
Ever.
- [42:03]
Lisa Mateo
The founder of which annual New York event was arrested on charges that he stole money raised for charity. What is the name of that New York event?
- [42:13]
David Gura
I know this. Cause I hate this thing.
- [42:15]
Lisa Mateo
Yes.
- [42:15]
Mark Caputo
So do I have some issue with the question, which we can get into.
- [42:19]
Christina Raffini
Let's do.
- [42:20]
David Gura
I think the category was misleading.
- [42:22]
Mark Caputo
No, we'll get to it.
- [42:22]
David Gura
Okay.
- [42:23]
Nancy Yousef
He's kidding. He's not fake.
- [42:24]
Mark Caputo
Hopefully I'm right.
- [42:25]
Christina Raffini
Okay.
- [42:26]
Lisa Mateo
Okay, flip it. What do we got?
- [42:28]
Christina Raffini
The Met Gal.
- [42:28]
David Gura
Met garbage gala. David. SantaCon.
- [42:31]
Lisa Mateo
Santa Con.
- [42:32]
Mark Esper
Oh, I read this.
- [42:34]
Christina Raffini
This is a charity event.
- [42:36]
Mark Caputo
The issue that I have is, like, we have SantaCon in San Francisco as well. It shouldn't be like a university New York City thing.
- [42:44]
Lisa Mateo
Didn't it start in New York?
- [42:45]
David Gura
I don't know, but it had to have started.
- [42:47]
Christina Raffini
Am I right about that?
- [42:48]
Andrew Zimmern
Am I wrong?
- [42:48]
Lisa Mateo
Did you bet? Oh, I get your chips, David, you're down.
- [42:51]
Christina Raffini
This is probably my most loathed year in the city.
- [42:54]
Lisa Mateo
All right.
- [42:55]
Christina Raffini
Not to be a grinch, David.
- [42:56]
Lisa Mateo
We gotta go for a bonus then. You know that.
- [42:58]
Christina Raffini
I do appreciate it.
- [42:59]
David Gura
Santa Claun is your most loathed day or this current news quiz is your most loathed day?
- [43:03]
Christina Raffini
Find out at the end of the segment. Okay.
- [43:07]
Andrew Zimmern
All right.
- [43:07]
David Gura
We've got a bonus.
- [43:08]
Lisa Mateo
All right, we have a bonus.
- [43:09]
Christina Raffini
And only a minute left.
- [43:10]
Lisa Mateo
30. Only minute left. Okay. Ed has 30, Christina has 30. And you have 10. 20. David.
- [43:16]
Christina Raffini
Yeah.
- [43:16]
Lisa Mateo
All right. Antitrust. This is the category for the bonus.
- [43:19]
Christina Raffini
All in.
- [43:19]
Lisa Mateo
Yeah, all in. Okay, okay, okay, okay. All right, here we go. Which confectioner, a large consumer of hazelnuts, was a target of European Union antitrust raids this week? Which confectioner? What is the name?
- [43:34]
David Gura
I can't think of the product. I can't think of the company.
- [43:36]
Lisa Mateo
It's a large consumer of hazelnuts.
- [43:38]
Mark Caputo
Oh, is there a distinction? No.
- [43:40]
Christina Raffini
Does it so delicious on a piece of bread, though.
- [43:43]
David Gura
I hope spelling is not counting here.
- [43:47]
Lisa Mateo
Come on. The name of the company.
- [43:49]
Christina Raffini
I wrote Nutella.
- [43:50]
Mark Caputo
Now.
- [43:50]
Lisa Mateo
The name of the company.
- [43:53]
Christina Raffini
Sorry.
- [43:55]
David Gura
That's exactly what I was saying. I was gonna write Nutella and I couldn't remember.
- [44:00]
Mark Caputo
I just didn't know how to spell it.
- [44:02]
David Gura
I did not spell it correctly either.
- [44:03]
Nancy Yousef
Sorry.
- [44:04]
Lisa Mateo
Camera.
- [44:05]
Mark Esper
Ferrero, look at you getting your cameras right.
- [44:09]
David Gura
I did not know until I was reading about this thing that made Nutella. I didn't know that.
- [44:14]
Mark Caputo
But let's be honest. Nutella inside of Artemis 2 and the spacecraft was a bigger story. It was this.
- [44:19]
Christina Raffini
With respect, it floated right past the debate about the game. Perhaps more than the game itself. Don't tell our colleagues in the game department.
- [44:27]
Mark Caputo
I sandbagged you guys here. This was great.
- [44:29]
Lisa Mateo
You did fantastic. You did really good.
- [44:31]
Courtney Subramanian
You're gonna have to come back.
- [44:32]
David Gura
You did okay.
- [44:33]
Christina Raffini
Thank you, Lucy. I appreciate that patronizing statement. All right, you can test your knowledge on all 10 questions. Take the ported news quiz@Bloomberg.com. yeah, probably me.
- [44:46]
David Gura
Thanks for joining us on today's Bloomberg this Weekend podcast. Don't forget to tune in live for the show every Saturday and Sunday morning starting at 7am Eastern.
- [44:54]
Christina Raffini
We're on Bloomberg Television Radio and the Bloomberg Business app bringing you unique takes and in depth interviews on news, politics, lifestyle and culture.
- [45:09]
Andrew Zimmern
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