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Host 1
Bloomberg Audio Studios podcasts Radio
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Political Analyst/Reporter Emory
News welcome to the Bloomberg this Weekend
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Host 1
podcast with David Gura, Christina Raffini and Lisa Mateo. Thanks for joining us for today's selection of conversations from the show.
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Host 2
You can listen to our favorite discussions right here on the podcast, but also make sure to join us live every Saturday and Sunday morning starting at 7am Eastern.
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Host 3
We're on Bloomberg Television Radio and the Bloomberg Business app bringing you unique takes and in depth interviews on news, politics, lifestyle and culture.
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Host 2
President Trump saying he'd consider having the government take stakes in leading AI companies. Here's what he told Bloomberg's television's chief political correspondent Annmarie Hordern on Air Force One yesterday.
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Political Analyst/Reporter Emory
Companies potentially taking these equity stakes. Have you spoken to Sam Altman or
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President Trump
you know, there's a concept out there, there's so much money and it's so big that there are concepts where pieces could be given to the American public, where the American public essentially becomes a partner with the company, with the companies. And I will tell you, yeah, I have, I have spoken. All of them. There's something very interesting about it where it almost becomes a partnership with the American public. And we'll look into that. We are looking. I actually have a meeting scheduled in the very short, very near with did you know that? With all of the companies. And we're talking about it where the American people can benefit from the success of AI and by doing that, they're going to like it better because we're leading China, we're leading everybody in the world with AI and we want to keep it that way. It's probably the biggest industry maybe that we've ever seen.
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Host 1
Which companies in the meeting?
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George Arison (Grindr CEO)
All of them.
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President Trump
All the big ones. Yeah, all the big ones. They're all coming to the White House probably next week.
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Host 2
President talking to Anne Marie there at 35,000ft talking about these businesses and government essentially being partners there. President teasing ahead to a big meeting next week with all of the big AI companies. If you couldn't hear that over the sound of the plane, these comments coming as SpaceX, Anthropic and OpenAI prepping for their major IPOs.
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Host 1
That's right. And Emory joins us now. She is in Bedminster where the president is waking up this morning. Anne Marie, thank you for coming on. We do want to talk about that. I mean the president. Good question. The president seemed to get pretty animated talking about this plan, something that Sam Altman kind of came to him with this idea last year. I'm wondering what it would look like and has a bit of a PR problem. Do you think this would help?
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Political Analyst/Reporter Emory
This potentially could help because I think a lot of American people see the amount of money these companies are spending. They're putting data centers across the country. They're having these incredible explosive IPOs. And Bernie Sanders, senator from Vermont, you know, caucuses with the Democrats and independent, but self described socialist Democrat, put out an opinion piece recently and he's been talking about this for years and saying that AI is built on all of our collective knowledge, our culture, journalists, books, et cetera. And the American people should have a stake in that. So this is something that Washington writ large has been talking about, especially the populist right and the populist left. And the president has also expressed interest in prior in taking stakes in companies. This isn't new for this president. We've seen this with MP Materials, Lithium Materials, intel, of course, with that 10% stake, there was a golden share as well with US Steel. So this has been kind of the direction of travel. Trump has been willing to take the party and so he's willing to have this discussion with all of these companies. It's still early innings, though. And actually what this would look like, this look like a dividend to American people. Would this be some sort of sovereign wealth fund? Those details still very much in discussion.
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Host 2
Emory, let me ask you just about the role that David Sacks is playing in this administration today. He was the President's adviser on AI issues during the first part of this, his second term. I gather he's no longer in any kind of official capacity, but still speaking with the President. And I'll just read a bit from a tweet that he sent on an AI meeting here. Nationalization of AI will accelerate the corporate government fusion we've already been sliding toward. Conservatives rightly fear a central bank, digital currency. They ought to be even more concerned about central government AI, a system with even more totalistic power over information, decision making and human behavior. Put that tweet in context. We had this postponed executive order on AI regulation. What ultimately made it to the President's desk is kind of a voluntary system through which these companies could give over their most sophisticated models to the government, I guess, 30 days in advance. And again, that would be a voluntary thing. It wouldn't be compulsory. How is this administration looking at AI regulation more broadly as we talk about the prospects of these public private partnerships and the prospects of further regulation?
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Political Analyst/Reporter Emory
Well, I think when it comes to regulation as well, this is just baby steps. This is all voluntary. And I think potentially, if you see more political pushback, I mean, did you see all the commencement speeches with the students doing AI, Potentially we're going to get more of this type of direction of travel, whether it's regulation or whether it's the government wanting to take these stakes in companies. In that tweet, David Sacks also went on to say, America will win the AI race with China, but will end up with a CCP style social credit system in the United States. Basically, this is what China, which is supposed to be our, you know, most important adversary, this is what they like to do with their technology companies. And he does not think that is a winning strategy and doesn't think, you know, it's the basis for capitalism and to produce the best AI models, which is why everyone is watching this so closely, because it's all happening at the same time. The pushback is happening at the same time as all these companies are, are going public. And at the same time, the government has to weigh a plan. Would they actually want to do something when it comes to a number of these companies. And yesterday while we were on Air Force One, we got the news when we landed, the president actually signed and an executive order about having to make sure you have a diversity of AI models. And, you know, I think this really stems from the whole fight the DOD is having with Anthropic. And they are saying that they are going to move away from Anthropic because of obviously the spat they're having with Claudia Monday.
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Host 1
It's been interesting to watch a Republican president be so involved with private sector entities. You know, we've also seen the administration make some deals with some other companies, including Intel. It doesn't seem like something the president is least bit afraid to do. But I'm wondering how that's going down with other more traditional Republicans, the ones that are left anyway, if this makes any of his otherwise allies a bit nervous.
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Political Analyst/Reporter Emory
Well, this week on Surveillance mean John and Lisa spoke to the former vice president. Mike Pence had a longer conversation with him as well at the Economic Club of New York. And this is something he pushes back on. He does not think that this is the conservative way. The conservatives believe in free market enterprise, not nationalization of companies. And I asked him, him, could you ever imagine that we would be in a position where you see a number of direct stakes into the private industry from a Republican president? And he hesitated for a second. He was like, no. But that is why people think that potentially this is going to happen, especially with these AI companies. And I did have a chance to also ask the president this idea, these concepts you're talking about is something we hear on the very far left when it comes to Bernie Sanders. And the president said that, you know, when it comes to some economic policy issues, that him and Bernie Sanders are somewhat aligned and pointed to the fact that there was a number of Democrats that voted for Bernie Sanders in the primary, of course, for the 2016 election, and then ended up voting for him. And I think the most obvious one obviously being Joe Rogan.
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Host 2
Emory, let me ask you, you took the long way to Bedminster yesterday. You went through Wisconsin to get there. And while the president was doing an event, he also sat down with Kristen Welker of NBC News for an interview that's going to air on Meet the Press tomorrow. And something that came up, of course, is what happens next in the Middle East. Let's play a bit of sound here from that interview that Kristen did with the president in which he talks about how he sees the path forward here.
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Host 1
You have been Saying for months, Mr.
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Host 3
President, that Iran is begging to make A deal.
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Political Analyst/Reporter Emory
They are so desperate to make a deal.
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Host 3
Why haven't they made a deal with you yet?
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President Trump
Because they. It's a very hard thing for them. They've had great independence. They've dealt with very weak and ineffective leadership on behalf of the United States and other countries, frankly, that were. That allowed them to get away with murder. And I don't. I think they can't believe they're in the situation where they've been virtually decapitated.
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Host 3
But if they're so desperate, Mr. President,
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Ad Read Announcer 2
why haven't they said yes to the terms you're proposing?
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President Trump
They're proud. There are things they never thought they'd be doing that they're going to have to do. They've got no choice. And it takes a little while.
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Host 2
Emory, let me ask you what he means by it takes a little while. I think there's growing impatience among a lot of Republicans for what's playing out here. The lack of progress, the kind of Groundhog Day nature of the way that this has played out. We've really lived that in real time on the weekends where you'll hear the president kind of jawboning the fact that there's a deal almost ready to go. We're waiting towards the end of the week, almost.
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Host 1
Almost every week. Yeah.
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Host 2
And by Sunday, we're kind of back to where we were. So talk a bit about that. Sort of the way that the president sees this proceeding versus the realities, certainly on the ground in the Middle east, where it seems like Iranians are quite content to wait this one out. As the pressures become more and more acute on the oil market, the global economy generally.
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Political Analyst/Reporter Emory
Well, it's really a test of who has the most patience and who can outlast this when it comes to the blockade, the blockade in the Strait of Hormuz. And I think the President going to Wisconsin highlights the pressure he's under domestically, especially that third Congressional District. These are farmers. They've seen fertilizer prices up some 40% since the start of the war, obviously, diesel prices, gasoline prices also higher. Because what is going on with the conflict of the Middle East? But at the same time, the president is also conflicted to give concessions to this regime because he began this attack, as well as with Operation Epic Fury last summer, because he has three clear red lines and he has had them for years when it comes to Iran, no nuclear weapons, no aiding of proxies, and needs to stop their ballistic missile program. The problem is this is existential for this regime. So. And they don't have the same sort of domestic pressures in a midterm election year the way this president does. So that is really why this is so difficult in terms of getting a deal. The president did say though to this group of farmers, it's all going to come down. He was almost saying, please stick with me. We had to do this excursion, as he calls it. But he said it's either going to end with a piece of paper or the hard way. So he's continuing those threats to Iran. And it does seem to be that his patience may be wearing thin. But, but clearly the President does want a deal. And when you speak to, we spoke to the Chevron CEO recently and you speak to energy analysts, they're saying we're basically living off buffers around the world. We are living off the bottom of tanks, living off the bottom of inventory levels. And potentially that's why this summer, which was peak driving season in the United States, we can see a real uptick
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Host 2
in prices benefiting also from like a lack of Chinese demand in a way I think that they didn't forecast or reduce Chinese.
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Host 1
Really interesting chart. No, if you watch that chart and it just drops very. But I do want to go back to what you were just talking about and that's the affordability crisis and who has more time here? Especially as you said, this president and his party have a midterm coming up. It seems faster and faster and all those issues could come to a head. We know that chief of staff Susie Wiles and others within the administration were very against this conflict because they wanted the president doing exactly what he was doing this week. Going out talking to voters, talking about these kitchen tables, table issues. You talked about a kitchen table issue that we've been talking about kind of non stop here this morning. We're going to play some sound genius
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Political Analyst/Reporter Emory
price for the game three you're going to is $8,000 everyday Americans can't afford these sports.
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President Trump
Well, I know, but they can watch it on television. It's sort of semi free to watch it on television. But that's the way life goes. You know, you have some. And now if the game wasn't a big, if the team wasn't a big success, you could go very easily. So you know, you can, you could do that too. That's the way life is.
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Host 1
I mean if you can't afford tickets, watch them on tv. This comes on the heels of him saying, you know, he doesn't really care about gas prices or financial situations of particular Americans. Do you think that's going to hurt him even with some of his big supporters out in places like you were just visiting.
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Political Analyst/Reporter Emory
Think so. Because I think actually the Democrats and you could see that on Twitter have taken now this message and using it on the follow up of the president saying he doesn't think of Americans financial situations, which I think we need to give more context. The president was saying he doesn't think of Americans financial situations when he's dealing with trying to get a deal with the Iranian regime about nuclear weapons. But in an election year, these are not the kind of sound bites you want swirling around being semi free. That's life tough tarts. And you know what, it's not just the Knicks game. And to the president's point, you know the Knicks have been, have never been here. It's been decades since the 90s. We've been here. Obviously you guys feel it in New York as well. Me and David were talking last night after that that excruciating, painful final two minutes of that game. So sure, maybe even the Knicks is idiosyncratic. But it's not just the Knicks is the point.
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George Arison (Grindr CEO)
Yeah.
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Political Analyst/Reporter Emory
World cup tickets on average are also $1,000. What is the meaning median take home for an everyday American worker? It is about eleven hundred dollars a week.
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Host 1
Yeah.
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Political Analyst/Reporter Emory
How do you take a family if you have children? How do you take your family to day out at a sporting event? And that was really the crux of what I to get to the president for. This is the Knicks. Whether it's the World cup, it is just highlighting the K shaped economy at the same time every day on Bloomberg we're talking about, you know, the billions of dollars companies are spending and people are about to make when it comes to SpaceX anthropic OpenAI IPOs.
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Host 2
Emery, great to talk to you. I hope we could talk about that when Bama Mitchell Robinson Technical Wanted to get into that a little bit. Maybe the fight between Brunson and Fox on the sidelines.
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Host 1
Stop it.
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Host 2
Great to see you. Embry Horton from Bedminster this morning. Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend right after this.
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Host 1
Look, it's June Pride Month here in New York and around the world, and Grindr is the world's largest network for LGBTQ people. The app is now evolving into what it's calling a global gaborhood, integrating AI or as the CEO calls it, gay eye. That's right.
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George Arison (Grindr CEO)
Right.
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Host 1
And looking into expanding its product line beyond just the dating app.
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Host 2
Well, that includes live events like a pop up concert with Madonna took place Thursday night in Times Square. In the past year, Grindr's revenue is up 38% while its share price has dropped by half. For C Suite Saturday, we spoke to CEO George Arison about the future of the company.
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George Arison (Grindr CEO)
I can't control what the stock does. The stock's going to do its own thing. And I think that over the long term the market is pretty efficient. Over the short term it's not. Not sometimes. And I think Grindr does have some complexity for people to understand. But we do have an incredible business. I mean, the company has grown 25/% every year over the last four years. Since I've been around even longer, it's growing at that pace or higher. EBITDA has also been getting better. We did more EBIT last year than we did revenue in 2022, which I think that's the number I really like. And it's going to continue going up, and I don't see anything that in the next three, four years is going to slow us down. Like, we have a very strong plan and execution is really, really strong. The team is doing everything that needs to be done to make the business work really well. So I think my job from the investor perspective is to keep meeting with people and telling them our story. And I think over time, it'll take care of itself. You know, we had some challenging things happen last fall when one of our shareholders had issues with his pledged shares, and that led to a squeeze on on him and resulted with share price coming down quite a bit. So I think there is some recovery that needs to happen from that. And that does take time. I mean, it's only been three quarters, so we'll. We'll keep kind of plugging along. And what I do tell the team is to not focus on the share price, because that'll be distracting. We should focus on execution. And ultimately, the market is pretty hushed.
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Host 1
You did a survey last year and you found that one in three gay relationships started on Grindr. And that's been kind of an evolution because I think when I first started learning about it, it was thought of as a hookup app, but now several. Actually, most of my friends who've gotten married in that community met on Grindr. What does that do to your business model? And how is the dynamics of what people are using the app for? Change?
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George Arison (Grindr CEO)
Yeah, the actual number is 50%, so it's even higher. It's pretty incredible.
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Host 1
Every wedding I've been to, it's.
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Bloomberg Tax Reporter Danielle Moyo Dunn
How did you meet Grindr?
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George Arison (Grindr CEO)
I mean, for me, one of the most cool kind of moments when I was just getting started, actually wasn't CEO yet, but I was doing the roadshow for us going public, and we met with this one investor and he's like, let me show you this picture. And he pulls out his picture from his brother's wedding where brother and his husband had met on Grindr, and they had this like little Grindr logo where you could take a photo in for every guest.
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Host 3
At the wedding?
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George Arison (Grindr CEO)
Yeah, at the wedding. So people decided. I'm like, well, this piece is going to probably go well because I don't have to like, explain to him what we do. I think in the gay world, in gay culture, things are pretty fluid, right? So casual dates or hookups leading to long term relationships, actually very common. Internally we tend to joke that if, you know, a gay couple hooks up three times and then doesn't go on a date, probably will never go on a date. Whereas a straight couple, if it doesn't go on three dates prior to a hookup, that relationship probably won't. That's right.
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Host 1
It's just a different three date rule.
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George Arison (Grindr CEO)
So it's. So it's, you know, that's just how the culture is. But the reality is that a lot more gay men today want to be in long term relationships than was the case, say, when I was in my 20s. And you know, Andrew Sullivan, who was probably one of the primary architects of the case for gay marriage over the years, you know, he would make this argument that if we allow gay marriage, then gay men will move more in the direction of what street people do, which is getting married and having stable long term relationships. And I think that's very much happening because if you survey men under 35, you know, over half of them say that they want to be in a long term relationship and a quarter of them say they want to have children. So I have kids. I've always wanted kids. But when I would say that I wanted kids in my 20s, I was literally like the oddest ball out. 1 in 100. So society is changing dramatically in part because of the recognition of. Of marriage. And that's really positive. And obviously Grindr is in an awesome place to help with that because that is where people meet and we have the critical mass of people to meet each other.
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Host 1
We want to ask you about AI and I understand you, you know, you something. You've coined gay I through the app.
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Host 2
I see what you did there.
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Host 1
All right, tell us what it is, how it works, and if it's been worth the investment. Because one of the things we're looking at, especially right now, is, is the ROI on these investments. And whether or not they're the juice is worth the squeeze for some of these.
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George Arison (Grindr CEO)
Yeah, I am. So we, we've been way ahead of the curve on the AI. Had built an AI company in 2018, not on Gene, because genres were out back then. But having done that, and that company has done very well and was very good for everybody involved. I knew that I was going to be a huge foregrounder because we have so much data and that creates unique opportunities. So we both have invested a ton into building AI products for users and those are going really well. We are, you know, have a lot of them are already out in this product and the feedback from users is very positive. We're building a new AI tier which is a more premium tier that is powered with Gai, that it will be already in beta with a bunch of users and will be live towards.
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Host 1
What does it do to just really hyper tailor?
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George Arison (Grindr CEO)
It gives you a lot more information about people you're talking to and creates transparency for both parties about why that connection might make sense. Then we've also done a ton of investment in how we work and Grindr is really like, I actually call it Terraforming, not transforming because the change is so massive. Our engineering team, you know, started adopting AI coding much earlier than most people and today 80% of the code that's written in Grindr is not written by humans and AI generated. It's all AI generated and engineers jobs is fundamentally changing. It's no longer writing code, it's actually architecting the code and managing synthetics that are writing the code. So every engineer is becoming an engineering manager. In effect organizations are going to become flatter as a result overall. And you know, in March when we were planning for Q2 engine came to the planning meeting and said that they don't have enough work and we need more projects. I've been building software for 20 years and I've never had anything like that happen to me. And don't get me wrong, like our team works extremely hard. We are a very hardcore culture. We're not like Space X but in the layer of where do you fall in the hardcore. We're very much closer to SpaceX than we are to an average company. So these are not people who are not working super hard. But we still had like more capacity because because of what AI is doing to how productive we are. I, I don't care how much money we spend on tokens, honestly because every dollar that's spent on tokens is way more output than you'd ever expect. I think companies that are worried about the spending are actually not well managed because then probably people are running around doing things that don't need to not using to be done. But I don't want to give numbers out because these were combination numbers that were shared with me. But, but one of the very large tech companies that recently was in the press a lot being worried about token spend. I did a rough. I heard what the total number of Their concern was, and by on an order of magnitude basis, like they were, say, at 20k per engineer, and we are roughly running like 50k per engineering token usage. But I'm happy If that became 100, because I know for a fact already that what we're getting on the other side is way more value. Well, tonight.
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Host 2
So let me ask you lastly, just about politics, and I'll confess, we were both in Washington for the White House Correspondents association dinner. And alas, neither of us got the invite to the party that you threw in the run up to that. We're not bitter about it, but it was a popular party, and I think popular because there were so many people there from both sides of the aisle, attracted a broad swath of people. How do you view engagement with politics, with Washington? The job of any CEO in this day and age is to make that part of the role. You have to engage with regulators and with lawmakers.
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George Arison (Grindr CEO)
So about six months into me starting my job, I get this note from the person who was leading Grinder for Equality, which is our public service arm, telling me that this horrible situation is developing in Egypt where Egyptian police is arresting gay men and then using their phones to honey trap our gay men. And I'm like, okay, who in D.C. do we call? Because, like, you know, America has a lot of influence around what happens in Egypt. And we didn't have a single person to contact because we had zero relationships in Washington, which I thought was kind of totally unacceptable. And then secondly, it felt to me like a lot of the groups that should be advocating on behalf of gay rights and do were becoming very partisan. And I am of the opinion that you cannot accomplish stuff in D.C. no matter who's in power, unless you're bipartisan, because it takes 60 votes to get anything done in the Senate. But also for things to stick around, you need both sides to be bought into it. And I felt like we were uniquely positioned to be able to do it because we are a business and we can talk to both sides of the aisle. And that's what we've been striving to do. And so far we've been very, very happy. There are specific things we care about. Decriminalization of homosexuality in certain countries where it's illegal marriage equality, access to fertility treatment for gay couples in the US in the same way that it's available to others, and then access to std, preventative and treatment medications and services, which matters to all our users. This is not a issue that's like 60, 40 on Grindr. It's most of these issues are like 9010 or 1000 and we can make massive headways on those if we bring people together to advocate for them.
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Host 1
Do you think given your background, you're in a good position to try to talk about these issues to a more conservative leaning government? I mean, I know you grew up in what was then the USSAR is now Georgia. That's not a place that's very friendly towards alternative Leviticus lifestyles. Does that give you a way to talk about this to people who may have a knee jerk?
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President Trump
No.
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Host 1
But when you talk to them about the human rights aspects of it and how it can benefit society as a whole, they're more able to have that conversation.
- [29:09]
George Arison (Grindr CEO)
It certainly helps me better appreciate the challenges that our users face in countries like that. I mean, one of my first board meetings at Grindr, we were discussing whether to enable Grindr in Iran or not. And this was like something we had shut down because of U.S. sanctions. And we're getting messages from local activists and users saying we would prefer for you to be on and take the risk of being caught by the government that we use in Grindr to not having a way to connect with each other because there's no other way to
- [29:36]
Host 1
do that because the risk of having that on your phone is really substantial. Yeah.
- [29:40]
George Arison (Grindr CEO)
So I'm like not a normal board discussion of what you're going to be dealing with. I remember going to see the Secretary of Labor about a year ago or nine months ago and we were talking about, hey, we want to make sure that, that if we do things on ivf we should, that should be extendable to gay couples because gay couples are not actually receiving the treatment themselves. It's usually a surrogate that's receiving treatment and like you should be able to transfer that service on. And her response to me back then was like the President said all families, that includes gay families. And like some people might not expect that from this administration, but I'm like, there's no question about that. And that's actually the kind of rule that they issued on IVF and ensure, you know, earlier this Q2. So that was a really good meeting on our end and a very good outcome for everyone. And so I think people are generally very willing to listen. And that's not to say that there's obviously a huge number of people in the Democratic Party who have been massive champions of gay rights and they've been great at engagement with us. And obviously it's really imperative for us to be working very closely with them and ensuring that they have the right information and to be able to do the incredible work that they do on behalf of all Grinder users.
- [30:48]
Host 1
George Erison, Grinder CEO I thought it was really fascinating giving what we've been talking about all week, these tech stocks, the evaluations and whether or not these companies are finding it worth it. That he said for his smaller team of engineers it is completely worth it and they had a very high spend on tokens and it was worth every single penny.
- [31:03]
Host 2
Just want to underscore what he said there that engineers at the company were literally proposing to him that he not hire any more engineers. This was making such an impact, I was making an impact on the business that it actually would lead to a lesser need to hire more engineers, which is the thing that you wouldn't think engineers would be they'd be advocating for
- [31:20]
Host 1
more of them, but 100%, but you know, they're expanding, they're trying to do new things and they're trying to do live events and they seem to think that they've got it handled from from a back end coding perspective. Thanks to Tools. Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend, right after the this if
- [31:38]
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about modern home shopping. It's sort of become a fun side hobby, right? Scrolling listings at night, dreaming about kitchens you've never seen or backyards you haven't even stepped foot in. All from the comfort of pretty much anywhere. Redfin knows a lot of people like you want to own but are stuck in this browsing mode loop. That's where Redfin flips the script. With listings that update within minutes and tours you can book right from the Redfin app, you can see your dream home the moment it appears. Now, liking a listing is easy, but actually landing it, that's where Redfin comes in. Redfin has over 2200 agents with local expertise and Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents. That means they want to help you win, not just window shop. Redfin is built to help you go from just looking to wait. This could actually be home. So become the newest neighbor on the block. Visit redfin.com to start finding and start owning. That's redfin.com.
- [34:20]
Host 1
The 79th Tony Awards are tomorrow at Radio City Music hall here in New
- [34:24]
Host 2
York to be celebrated and to be, you know, honored. While I have a family and feels really grounding to me, I just didn't think that it were possible. You know what I mean? It's just not something that you see happen a lot. Like especially for me, I wouldn't have ever expected this.
- [34:42]
Host 3
It means more than I can really express.
- [34:45]
Host 1
I keep trying to find new words to really encapsulate the feeling. I don't think there are.
- [34:51]
George Arison (Grindr CEO)
There's a story that connects all of
- [34:55]
Host 2
what seems to be disparate personalities.
- [34:59]
George Arison (Grindr CEO)
But it's a family affair. And I think it's absolutely appropriate that
- [35:05]
Host 2
now when the world is so troubled
- [35:08]
George Arison (Grindr CEO)
that you can come to the theater and watch a huge international family actually love one another.
- [35:19]
Host 2
A handful of Tony nominees and honorees. New York Governor Kathy Hochul pushing lawmakers to extend a tax credit put in place during the pandemic with the hope it will help New York retain its appeal to producers. As we heard from Bloomberg Tax's Danielle Moyo Dunn critics question whether the subsidy
- [35:34]
Bloomberg Tax Reporter Danielle Moyo Dunn
is worth really began, like you said, as a way to help these shows when they had no one going right. But since COVID 19, Broadway's facing a lot of challenges still just like how we all complain about the price of everything going up. That applies to Broadway, too. You know, what it takes to make sets and costumes. So they've continued the program, they've added more funding, and the idea is to just make it a little easier to fund a Broadway production.
- [36:06]
Host 2
Who's eligible for this? Like, when you look at the shows that are on Broadway today, how many of them are taking advantage or 8 to take advantage of these credits?
- [36:13]
Bloomberg Tax Reporter Danielle Moyo Dunn
It's a great question because it really is carved out for Broadway and Off Broadway specifically. So Broadway, you know, shows that are in a Broadway theater defined as, like, in the theater district with 500 seats or more, can get up to 3 million in tax credits. And then Off Broadway productions, which is, you know, defined a little differently, they're smaller. They can be in elsewhere throughout Manhattan, can get up to, I believe, $350,000 in tax credits. So a little smaller.
- [36:42]
Host 1
And are there strings attached to that? I know with some of the movie credits, I think of this more as a movie thing. Right. They did it in Georgia, they did it in New Orleans, and it was. It was effective there until they pulled the credits, but they also came with a lot of strings attached. Are there rules you have to follow in order to qualify?
- [36:57]
Bloomberg Tax Reporter Danielle Moyo Dunn
So that's kind of one of the big criticisms of the program. There really aren't. It's basically interesting. If you meet the requirements in terms of how much you paid for the show and it's on a designated Broadway or Off Broadway theater, then you qualify. And there are state lawmakers and budget watchdog groups who really feel like this doesn't make sense. You have money going to shows financed by Disney and billionaires who are getting tax incentives. And these shows that have to start in smaller theaters aren't getting support because they don't qualify.
- [37:34]
Host 2
I'm just curious generally how Broadway's doing. So we started off by talking about COVID 19, and we knew, well, the effects that that had on theater here in New York and elsewhere. Are we back to where we were? Sort of how big a need, aside from this kind of competitive argument that we've been talking about, is there for subsidies like this?
- [37:50]
Bloomberg Tax Reporter Danielle Moyo Dunn
Yeah. So, I mean, Broadway is rebounding since the pandemic. So according to state comptroller data, Revenue, gross revenue, or. Sorry. According to state comptroller data, the attendance is back to pre pandemic level. The Broadway League has reported that revenue is. The 202425 season was one of the highest grossing seasons they've ever recorded.
- [38:16]
Host 1
Wow.
- [38:17]
Bloomberg Tax Reporter Danielle Moyo Dunn
So from that position, they are doing well, but what Broadway producers and directors will tell you is, yes, but it's getting much harder for investors to see a return on these shows. The shows are getting more expensive to produce. You know, you have, like, Stranger Things, it was like 35 million, according to forms with this.
- [38:39]
Host 1
Okay, but is this mission creep? I mean, does it have to be $35 million? Like, I think about Chicago and the fact that, like, the reason the Chicago we all know now is the very stripped down, you know, no cost changes, bands on stage. That was a choice, but only out of budget necessity, because that was the money they had at the time. There are ways to do these shows that do not cost $30 million. Is this just kind of playing into that and making it so that to your point, these bigger productions, you do spend this much money and you may not be getting the return?
- [39:06]
Bloomberg Tax Reporter Danielle Moyo Dunn
Well, I think it's two things. Right? I think. I think, yes, you're right. They don't. You don't have to put on a $35 million production. Right. If you don't want to. Obviously, if you want to do something with intense special effects like Stranger Things, it would require that amount of money. You know, what we're seeing more of is actually plays. You think of like Glengarry Glen Ross, where you have a smaller cast, but you have these big names attached to it, and that allows them to, you know, see a return faster because really all of the money is going to these salaries. It's a pretty small production, and it's a. It's a better bet for the producers.
- [39:45]
Host 2
Just pull it back to these credits. And you mentioned some of the criticism against it has to do, you know, with how restrictive they are. Not restrictive, I guess. Here we are in New York State, facing a massive budget shortfall of what, $6 billion. What are the other things that critics are saying about the prospects of this continuing or the need for this to be something that's implemented in New York?
- [40:05]
Bloomberg Tax Reporter Danielle Moyo Dunn
Yeah. So I think the big thing is if it is going to continue, there should be more strings attached to it. So there's technically a provision that if these shows are very profitable, they should have to return some of the tax credit, but none have actually triggered it to date, which is a little confusing because there's definitely shows that have gotten it and done well. So that's something state lawmakers feel like maybe we could tighten up that language. So there is actually some payment back into it. So that's something that they're exploring. And I think this is going to be a big conversation especially next year since the benefit is set to expire in September 2027. So there is a time hook for them to kind of figure it out.
- [40:45]
Host 1
Oh, interesting. We have to come back and keep us updated how it's doing.
- [40:48]
Host 2
Danielle, thank you very much.
- [40:49]
Bloomberg Tax Reporter Danielle Moyo Dunn
Thank you very much.
- [40:52]
Host 3
Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend right after this.
- [40:58]
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- [42:01]
Ad Read Announcer 2
about modern home shopping. It's sort of become a fun side hobby, right? Scrolling listings at night, dreaming about kitchens you've never seen or backyards you haven't even stepped foot in. All from the comfort of pretty much anywhere. Redfin knows a lot of people like you want to own but are stuck in this browsing mode loop. That's where Redfin flips the script with listings that update within minutes and tours you can book right from the Redfin app. You can see your dream home the moment it appears. Now, liking a listing is easy, but actually landing it? That's where Redfin comes in. Redfin has over 2200 agents with local expertise, and Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents. That means they want to help you win, not just window shop. Redfin is built to help you go from just looking to wait. This could actually be home. So become the newest neighbor on the block. Visit redfin.com to start finding and start owning. That's redfin.com.
- [43:10]
Bloomberg Tax Reporter Danielle Moyo Dunn
All right.
- [43:11]
Host 1
Now for the Weekend Pointed News quiz.
- [43:13]
Host 2
I wait for this every six days out of the week. I'm counting down.
- [43:18]
Host 1
Listen just because you've been doing better lately doesn't mean this is going to persist.
- [43:22]
Host 2
So, Lisa, self esteem, I need.
- [43:24]
Host 1
Well, Lisa had the sheet out. You walked by her earlier.
- [43:27]
Host 3
You are cheating.
- [43:28]
Host 2
Allegations of malfeasance are flying. And I want to let the viewers. This is a man who accuses me
- [43:34]
Host 1
of cheating on a bi weekly basis. Lisa. Lisa.
- [43:36]
Host 3
All right, let's get to the coins. Okay, so for those of you who have never played with us, here's how it works. They have 30 chips in front of them. 30 each. And they're going to base those. Poker chips? Yes, poker chips.
- [43:47]
Host 1
There you go.
- [43:48]
Host 3
And we have three categories. So they're going to base how much they're going to bet on each category.
- [43:54]
Host 1
How you feel.
- [43:54]
Host 3
How you feel confident about each category. All right, You've been doing this 10 across the board, David, it's been working for you.
- [44:00]
Host 2
I didn't do it last week. I did like 30 on one, and that was really stupid. So.
- [44:04]
Host 1
So he learned his lesson.
- [44:05]
Host 2
I'm going to go.
- [44:06]
Host 3
Let's get to the categories.
- [44:07]
Host 2
All right, what do we got? Hold on.
- [44:09]
Host 3
AI is the first category. Second category is securities fraud. And third category, story is movies. Okay, so where do you feel more confident?
- [44:17]
Host 1
Pretty broad story.
- [44:19]
Host 2
I'm sure I read it to that there.
- [44:20]
George Arison (Grindr CEO)
I'm gonna do.
- [44:21]
Host 1
I'm doing my usual.
- [44:22]
Host 2
I'm doing 10, 10, 10, 10 on AI.
- [44:24]
Host 3
Okay. None on security spread.
- [44:27]
Host 2
And then 20.
- [44:28]
Host 1
I'm not. I'm not feeling great about that strategy.
- [44:31]
Host 3
Good strategy. Okay, ready for your first question?
- [44:33]
Host 2
So ready.
- [44:34]
Host 3
Let's get to AI Okay. Chip makers have discovered that the cooling ability of which lab grown stone is superior to copper and aluminum. Lab grown stone. Where have you been? Hearing a lot about lab grown stone.
- [44:50]
Host 1
I drew a little visual aid for you. Really?
- [44:52]
Host 3
Oh, she drew a picture, too.
- [44:54]
Host 2
Crystals.
- [44:54]
Host 1
Crystals.
- [44:54]
Political Analyst/Reporter Emory
What did you dream?
- [44:55]
Host 3
Diamonds. Diamonds, For God's sake. Yes.
- [44:58]
Host 2
Can AI get more expensive, please? Maybe.
- [45:01]
Host 3
But shares of Chinese companies that produce those diamonds, they jumped as much as 50% in a matter of days because of this news.
- [45:07]
Host 2
I hear you can't tell the difference now between lab grown diamonds and the real thing.
- [45:10]
Host 3
No. And I have to say that the diamond did fall out of my engagement ring when we were away in Washington.
- [45:16]
Host 2
I forgot this. I think I might forget this wild story. Lisa and I never followed up on it.
- [45:21]
Host 3
I lost it. So Mama Mateo may be going for the lab grown replacement.
- [45:26]
Host 2
I feel so sad that that has remained lost. You mentioned that, and it was a weekend.
- [45:32]
Political Analyst/Reporter Emory
All right.
- [45:34]
Host 2
If you found a diamond at the Washington Hilton. You can send to take care of Bloomberg.
- [45:38]
Host 1
We didn't have a bad enough weekend. Lisa also lost her ring.
- [45:42]
Host 3
Okay. Securities fraud. Let's move on so I can forget about this. Okay. Investor Andrew Left was found guilty of securities fraud. What trading strategy is Left?
- [45:52]
Host 1
This one, too.
- [45:54]
George Arison (Grindr CEO)
But it's the trading strategy.
- [45:55]
Host 1
It's definitely not because it was in a movie.
- [45:59]
Bloomberg Tax Reporter Danielle Moyo Dunn
That's why she knows.
- [46:00]
Host 3
Hey, whatever it takes.
- [46:01]
Host 2
Sad. I put it on this.
- [46:02]
George Arison (Grindr CEO)
But.
- [46:03]
Host 3
Yeah, go first.
- [46:05]
Host 1
Short selling.
- [46:05]
Host 2
Short selling.
- [46:06]
Host 3
No, Both of you.
- [46:07]
Bloomberg Tax Reporter Danielle Moyo Dunn
You got it.
- [46:08]
Host 3
Right?
- [46:08]
George Arison (Grindr CEO)
Correct.
- [46:08]
Host 3
Correct.
- [46:09]
Host 1
Also, that story was absolutely everywhere.
- [46:10]
Host 3
It was. He's found guilty of using social media posts to manipulate stocks. And that's the issue. That's a no.
- [46:15]
Host 1
No.
- [46:15]
Host 3
All right, so how are we doing on points wise?
- [46:17]
Host 1
Oh, I have, like, all of my little chips here. David. Are you missing it for your chips?
- [46:21]
Political Analyst/Reporter Emory
David?
- [46:21]
Host 1
You're missing a couple of your ships.
- [46:23]
Host 2
Lisa. Mateo. But we're ready for this next category.
- [46:25]
Host 3
All right.
- [46:25]
Host 1
You did Hope you know this.
- [46:27]
Host 3
You gave them to me. Okay, Movies. This is where we're gonna do good. Okay. Backrooms. Have you heard of the movie?
- [46:32]
Host 1
Thank God that's a title I can remember.
- [46:34]
Host 3
Yes. Okay.
- [46:34]
Host 1
Yes.
- [46:34]
Host 3
It earned 118 million on its opening weekend. What genre of Internet horror folklore is it based on?
- [46:42]
Host 2
Oh, it's Internet horror folklore.
- [46:45]
Host 3
Oh, it's.
- [46:46]
Host 1
It's such a weird name.
- [46:48]
Host 2
It's a weird, weird name.
- [46:49]
Political Analyst/Reporter Emory
Yes.
- [46:50]
Host 3
It's a genre of Internet horror folklore. What is it based on?
- [46:55]
Bloomberg Tax Reporter Danielle Moyo Dunn
I don't know.
- [46:57]
Host 3
This is a tough one. I know. I know the movie.
- [47:00]
Host 1
I literally saw this and thought, lisa's gonna use this for pointed. And I can't remember if I got it right.
- [47:04]
Host 2
Scare tube.
- [47:05]
Host 3
Scare tube. What did you write?
- [47:06]
Host 1
Oh, it's. I couldn't remember if it's creepy spaghetti or creepypasta Creepy pasta. I got it.
- [47:11]
Host 3
Right,
- [47:13]
Political Analyst/Reporter Emory
Right.
- [47:14]
Host 3
Okay. You have to explain this to me. Okay?
- [47:16]
Host 1
I don't. I don't know what it is. I just saw the term I don't know.
- [47:19]
Host 3
Because memes with the genre offerings spread via control C and control V, which is pace. So maybe it's like.
- [47:26]
Host 1
Like control V duplicating it. I don't.
- [47:28]
Host 2
Strokes.
- [47:29]
Host 1
Maybe because it's creepy Copy paste. Any younger people in our control room know what this is?
- [47:34]
Host 3
I'm trying, people.
- [47:35]
Host 1
I'm trying, really trying.
- [47:37]
Host 3
The youngins I know.
- [47:38]
Host 2
Have you watched these movies?
- [47:39]
Host 3
No, but Obsession was the other one from a YouTube filmmaker that my son was. Was really talking about. He's like, you gotta see this movie.
- [47:44]
Host 2
Do you have to See it?
- [47:45]
Host 1
No, no. I do know it started on YouTube and it's, it's now being distributed by a 74, which is a very big company. And it's like. But isn't like the number one movie right now? It is.
- [47:53]
Political Analyst/Reporter Emory
Really?
- [47:54]
Host 2
You've seen none of these movies?
- [47:56]
Host 1
No, I don't do like that kind of horror. I'll do like.
- [47:58]
Host 2
Too scary.
- [47:59]
Host 1
No, I just.
- [48:00]
Host 2
Too gripping. Too emotionally.
- [48:03]
Host 1
I don't. You know what, Lisa? What's the bonus?
- [48:05]
Host 3
Too scary. All right. Bonus is protein. Yes.
- [48:08]
Host 1
Okay.
- [48:09]
Bloomberg Tax Reporter Danielle Moyo Dunn
I'm so excited.
- [48:10]
Host 2
I've got nothing to wager or live for here
- [48:15]
Host 3
about the shortage. A dietary craze. Cause shortages of which cheese? How about a good byproduct?
- [48:21]
Host 2
Cheese byproduct.
- [48:22]
Host 3
That's found in caramel.
- [48:24]
Host 1
Think about your nursery rind.
- [48:25]
Host 3
High protein waffles. Okay.
- [48:28]
Host 2
I know this.
- [48:29]
Host 1
You do know this.
- [48:31]
George Arison (Grindr CEO)
Yeah.
- [48:31]
Host 2
That's a pretty big hint.
- [48:32]
Host 1
You're fine.
- [48:33]
Host 3
So good. So you need.
- [48:34]
Host 1
I want you to feel included.
- [48:35]
George Arison (Grindr CEO)
Yeah.
- [48:36]
Host 3
What is this?
- [48:37]
Host 1
Cheese byproduct.
- [48:39]
Host 2
Do you use that? Enjoy it.
- [48:40]
Host 3
Oh, I enjoy it every morning.
- [48:41]
Host 2
Cheese routine.
- [48:42]
Ad Read Announcer 3
Yes.
- [48:42]
Host 1
I gotta get better about this. Lisa yells at it. I put it in my cheek. Protein intake all the time. There we go.
- [48:47]
Host 3
Way you guys are right. Yes.
- [48:49]
Host 1
No way.
- [48:50]
Host 2
How do you decide what to take of all of these things?
- [48:52]
Host 3
Cause it's like extra protein.
- [48:53]
Host 2
Yeah. Well all. Yeah. I just see the tubs of this stuff.
- [48:56]
Political Analyst/Reporter Emory
Yeah.
- [48:56]
Bloomberg Tax Reporter Danielle Moyo Dunn
I go.
- [48:57]
Host 3
I don't know. I look at like different things. Calories, too. How much sodium is in it sometimes too. But it's all like the protein craze. So now like, these companies are starting to alter what they put. Like how much whey. Maybe we can find something else. Maybe they'll use pea protein instead of like the whey protein. It's, it's, it's, it's a lot.
- [49:13]
Host 1
I have to say I'm very suspicious of protein being in things that it doesn't need to be in. Like, not like a shake or a bar, but like. Yes. Our EP just says Doritos. I don't need protein in my Doritos. I don't need protein in my clear Starbucks drink. Like, I find that. I don't know, it seems too chemically.
- [49:28]
Host 3
It's a marketing thing.
- [49:28]
George Arison (Grindr CEO)
Thing.
- [49:29]
President Trump
Yeah.
- [49:29]
Host 1
I feel like I don't know how effective it really is.
- [49:31]
Host 3
Say it has it, you'll buy it.
- [49:33]
Host 1
Okay, so I'm going to just go
- [49:34]
Host 2
home with all of my little test your knowledge on all 10 questions. The pointed news quiz is available on the Bloomberg business app going to keep
- [49:40]
Host 1
making this out for our radio listeners. I want to make sure our radio
- [49:43]
Host 2
listeners you want to thank our fine viewers and listeners for their attention.
- [49:49]
Host 1
Thanks for joining us on today's Bloomberg this Weekend podcast. Don't forget to tune in live for the show and every Saturday and Sunday morning starting at 7am Eastern, we're on
- [49:57]
Host 2
Bloomberg Television Radio and the Bloomberg Business app bringing you unique takes and in depth interviews on news, politics, lifestyle and culture.
- [50:08]
Ad Read Announcer
If you're feeling off fatigue, mood changes, skin shifts, yet your labs say everything's normal. You're not alone. Meet Oestra from Inner Balance, the first all in one prescription strength bioidentical hormone cream that's natural and effective and only takes one drop 10 seconds a day. Oestro replaces five to six products women typically use to treat symptoms and is third party tested to ensure the highest quality. Visit innerbalance.com today to start feeling like yourself again. That's innerbalance.com Paramount plus is now the
- [50:41]
George Arison (Grindr CEO)
home of all your BET favorites.
- [50:43]
Host 1
What?
- [50:44]
George Arison (Grindr CEO)
Yes, with all new episodes of Tyler Perry's Divorce Sisters you've always liked, a little drama, plus a whole new world of movies like Last Gladiator 2.
- [50:52]
Host 2
Now I will control an Empire original
- [50:55]
George Arison (Grindr CEO)
series like the Shy.
- [50:56]
Host 2
Just make sure we protect each other
- [50:58]
George Arison (Grindr CEO)
and live sports like ufc.
- [51:00]
President Trump
Welcome to the history books.
- [51:03]
George Arison (Grindr CEO)
New home, same family. Your BET favorites are now on Paramount plus. Subscribe now.
- [51:10]
Political Analyst/Reporter Emory
This is Bethany Frankel from Just Be with Bethany Frankel. Most dog food is marketing, not nutrition. That is why Biggie and Smalls eat just food for dogs. Real 100% human grade food with ingredients I actually recognize. And yes, I do see the difference.
- [51:27]
Ad Read Announcer 3
Better digestion, healthier skin, more energy, dogs that feel better.
- [51:32]
Political Analyst/Reporter Emory
My babies. If you've been on the fence about
- [51:35]
Host 1
switching, stop overthinking it.
- [51:37]
Political Analyst/Reporter Emory
What's more important than your furry babies and their health? Go to justfoodfordogs.com right now and get 50% off your first box. No code needed.
- [51:45]
Ad Read Announcer 3
Just try it.