Troy Taylor (3:08)

I haven't moved in 20 minutes. Amanda's aunt is on the phone telling me about the threat that was made against her. In the wake of Faith's death and her family's push for answers, it's the first time anyone close to this case has told me they were warned to stop asking questions. And the craziest part about it is the threat appears to be coming From a very unexpected direction. Had you spoken to anyone else about the case?

Sue (Amanda's Aunt) (3:33)

No, No. I talk with Amanda and Caitlin, my daughter, both my sons, and they don't talk to anybody because they're not down around here to talk to anybody. So we don't rattle anything, anybody or ask any questions around anyone because we know that there are different ones who try to keep it down low, and we don't want to, you know, jar out somebody else's when they've got something going on. And so we just kind of keep it among ourselves.

Troy Taylor (4:05)

I asked sue if she received any other threatening calls regarding Faith's case.

Sue (Amanda's Aunt) (4:10)

Just the one. And I was like, I'm the kind of person. Amanda will tell you. I'm the kind of person that's like, okay, go ahead, tell me. Try to bully me, and I'm going to come back at you. I'm going to be bullied up. Okay, tell me to back up. Tell me, sit down. Tell me. Shut up. And, boy, I'm going to be in your face. And when we. Well, you know, this is important. This is important. I mean, somebody murdered one of my family members, and we're not going there. I just. No, I'll ask whatever questions I need to ask. And I tried not to make a big boo boo out of it all.

Troy Taylor (4:43)

I go on to ask if she knows of any other people who received calls around the same time she did, and she tells me there was one other guy she knows of. She's not close to him. She doesn't want to name him by name, and they don't talk that often, but they've compared notes in the past.

Sue (Amanda's Aunt) (4:57)

Yeah, he. He said that they. One of the. Oh, I don't know whether he is a police officer. This one got him and said, you need to back off of that. Be quiet. He said, don't ask questions. This is not your investigation.

Troy Taylor (5:13)

But he was approached by someone who said that. Not a call?

Sue (Amanda's Aunt) (5:16)

No, not a call. He was approached, and I don't know who it was. Have no clue. He was just turning back off. He didn't tell me who it was.

Troy Taylor (5:24)

The scary part about all of it is that it's, you know, it doesn't sound like anyone's saying. They're not saying, you know, worry about whoever may be involved in this. They're saying, you know, worry about the people that are supposed to protect you.

Sue (Amanda's Aunt) (5:36)

That's basically it in a nutshell right there. Don't mess with it because you're, you know, you're going to cause a ruckus.

Troy Taylor (5:44)

I ask if there's any chance she might still be able to get in touch with the guy and if she could possibly find out more about who it was that approached him in terms

Sue (Amanda's Aunt) (5:52)

of, like, yeah, it would take me a few days because sometimes I can't get a hold of him. But I can. I can talk with him and ask him if he can give me more details.

Troy Taylor (6:00)

Yeah, if you can, that'd be great. Just. Just. Just to get an idea of, like.

Sue (Amanda's Aunt) (6:04)

Yeah, I can do that, too. I could ask if he would tell me.

Troy Taylor (6:08)

It seems we're both on the same page. If someone's starting to bite back, well, it probably means we're poking the right bear. The second I hang up from Amanda and Aunt sue, my phone buzzes. It's a voicemail message from Rosemary, and I'm surprised about what it is she's got to share.

Sue (Amanda's Aunt) (6:32)

You have one unheard message. First unheard message sent yesterday at 7:15pm hey, Troy.

Rosemary (6:45)

So I've been doing a little bit of digging, and I came across this case from 2020. So not too long ago, it's McGirt versus Oklahoma. It's a whole new, like, perspective on the way investigations go where a Native American man got his life sentence overturned because he was investigated by the state of Oklahoma and not the tribal police or federal court, and the state has no jurisdiction over tribal land. You know, Kate said when she arrived the Light Horse Police were there. Why would they be there? Is it something that they. They just do? I really think it's something we need to look into because who. Who has the authority to investigate? So it got me thinking. I'm wondering, you know, seeing that Faith was found dead on tribal land, do we know if Ryan or Ronica are Native American? If they are, I mean, it should be possibly a federal investigation or the OSBI or ohp. There's so many different, you know, agencies involved. Who made the decision not to investigate Ryan and Ronica, and maybe this shouldn't even have been their case at all. Maybe it should be federal. I think this could really change the scope of this investigation.

Troy Taylor (8:25)

A few days after speaking with Amanda and her aunt, Amanda calls me with an update.

Amanda (8:30)

I'm thinking, Troy, I'm thinking, so my Aunt Sue. Sue is not her first name. Not many people know her first name. Her first name is not common. But if somebody was just looking up her name to get her phone number, they would. When they called, they would have called her by her first name. They did not. In that. In that call, she said when she answered the call they said, is this Sue. Sue is what everybody calls her, but in an official capacity, like if you didn't know her or didn't know where to look, you would call her by her first name. And her phone number is not common knowledge. It's a pay as you go type phone. People don't just know where she lives, that kind of thing. She's very much. I mean, she's 75 years old.

Mark Girouli (9:20)

Right.

Amanda (9:21)

She's very much under the radar. So we were thinking, okay, so where else would they have gotten her name and her phone number? So if it was just law enforcement calling to just kind of give her an anonymous caution, you know, could it have been in this manner? But she said they used her middle name. So it wasn't somebody who just looked her up through official means because they would have used her given first name. So it was somebody who knew who all the players are, who's asking the questions. And then, you know, small community, everybody knows everybody and everybody knows everybody's business.

Mark Girouli (10:03)

Yeah.

Amanda (10:03)

And then how did they get her phone number? People don't just give out her phone number. She only knows family. So where did they get the phone number?

Mark Girouli (10:11)

100%. No one, like no one involved is going to be able to find her phone number or, or even if, you know, even if put it right out there and say that, you know, it was a hit and run, this random driver, he's not going to have her phone number. He's not going to be calling her, saying, stop asking questions. Right. So you rule out that criminal element of it and you say, well, it comes down to that same thing, which is that it has to be someone in law enforcement or linked to the case in that way. And then they're not operating in any kind of official capacity.

Sue (Amanda's Aunt) (10:38)

So.

Amanda (10:39)

Exactly.

Mark Girouli (10:39)

It can only, you know, that leads you on. That one spot of like, this can only be for one reason. And it's not to say, hey, we're trying to investigate this. Just, just back off and let us do it. It's to say, stop sticking your nose in places that it shouldn't be.

Troy Taylor (10:51)

I ask Amanda how Aunt sue went and getting in touch with a guy she believed had also been threatened. And it seems things had taken an interesting turn.

Amanda (10:59)

The vibe that my aunt got as well as I did from her telling me about it was whatever happened, whatever got him spooked, had to be from a source outside of the criminal element. It would have to come from someone who he knows has the ability to carry out whatever threats they made to him. And to cover it up.

Mark Girouli (11:31)

Yeah.

Amanda (11:31)

She's like, okay, so I'm just gonna back off of him because I don't know, you know, he won't even answer my calls now for me to try to get any kind of context or find out what's going on. But she said he did such a flip on her and her last actual conversation with him. The last time he actually answered the phone, he did such a flip. And the way what he was saying was just like some. It told her something had happened. It's. It's weird. She's like, that is not the way he acts. But she said he just very much was like, le. I don't know. Stop asking me. And I. I don't want nothing else to do with it. And then he has not answered her call since then.

Mark Girouli (12:18)

When was that last time she spoke to him?

Amanda (12:21)

She said it was about a month ago. She said she's called him three times since then, and he has not answered. He has not returned her calls. And he always before.

Sue (Amanda's Aunt) (12:29)

Wow.

Amanda (12:30)

Not anymore.

Mark Girouli (12:32)

Okay.

Amanda (12:32)

Something's up.

Mark Girouli (12:33)

Something big, I think something big.

Amanda (12:36)

Something ain't right. And, you know, I don't want anybody else getting hurt. People are going to continue to get hurt as long as they're able to silence people. They're only able to to create fear if there ain't no light shed on.

Troy Taylor (12:55)

After my call with Amanda, I'm just about to shut my laptop for the night when a new message pops up. It's from a girl named Stevie. She tells me she knows Ryan, that they've recently separated, but that they'd been in a relationship for four years. Right on the back of Faith's death, she wants to know if I've got some time to talk. And of course, the answer is yes. I reach over and switch back on the coffee pot. It looks like tonight I'm gonna need it. I pick up the phone, dial her number, and within seconds, we're diving right in.

Stevie (13:30)

I remember when I first met Ryan, something just told me, you know, stay away from this man. He's not good news. He had went to rehab or whatever. I wrote him on Facebook and congratulated him. Hey, you know, good job going and getting sober and, you know, all that. Well, he wrote me back and, well, I guess he wasn't in California anymore. He wasn't in rehab. He had come home, and somehow we just ended up. He pretty much moved himself in. You know, I was working and taking care of my kids, and he just pretty much took over. I didn't know Faith I didn't know the situation. I never heard the situation. You know, I remember I was working at the pawn shop, and I had seen the first podcast on Faith, and then that's when I seen Ryan's name, and I was like, hold on. I believe I was like, I don't know. I was, like, three months pregnant already. You know, as soon as I heard the podcast, of course I wanted to just up and leave. A month went by or so, and I ended up bringing it up to him, and he just kind of, like, wigged out. Was hella mad because I listened to the podcast, and yada, yada, yada, he used to, like, squeeze me, okay. And Faith was little bitty, right? I'm five ten, you know, I'm not. I'm not little bitty. I'm skinny. But he used to, like, wrap his arms around me, around my ribs and squeeze me. And he would make comments about, like, how he could take me out doing that. I mean, it was just completely random. So, I mean, that always, like, stuck in my head, like, well, is that how I did it? He never knocked me out. He never punched me. And I do have to say that, you know, he never punched me. He did try to choke me out a few times, and he had me on the floor when I was pregnant. I mean, he spit in my face when I was pregnant. And now I've never been to jail. I'm not a violent person. Ryan's the only person I've ever punched in the face, and it was while I was pregnant. He spit my face three times, and that third time, I just, boom, boom, punched him. And then somehow I got on the floor.

Troy Taylor (15:32)

So if you guys got into a situation where you were having an argument, would there be any situation where he would walk away?

Stevie (15:38)

No, never. And I would, you know, of course, like, I would try to go to the other room or, you know, to try to. Okay, Ryan. That's how I. I think that's what I finally learned, is just like, okay, Ryan. Okay, Ryan. Whatever you say, Ryan. Okay, Ryan. I met Ronica when I was pregnant, and whatever. Ryan. And Ryan's kid is almost 3. The day after the baby was born, Ryan ended up going to jail. So I was in the hospital by myself, and I had a premature baby. You know, he was in the nicu. Well, the day they released me, Veronica came and got me because I had no one else to come and get me. I would call Veronica and I would cry, and I would vent to Ronica because Ryan, like, would leave me, you know, I was pregnant and be gone forever in my car and wouldn't come home. And. And she would just always tell me, like, well, one day, whenever you're sick of it, you know, you'll be sick of it or whatever. Like, you don't have to put up with that. That's all she would say. Ryan would always say, like, she doesn't come around because of Faith. Because of what happened to Faith. But he wouldn't say.

Troy Taylor (16:45)

You know, he said she wouldn't. She doesn't come around because of what happened to Faith.

Stevie (16:49)

Yeah. Like, she's got guilt because of that.

Troy Taylor (16:51)

Did he ever tell you anything about that night, what he says happened or what they were doing that night or anything like that?

Stevie (16:58)

He told me that they went to a bar outside of Oka. It's called the Stardust, I think. And he tells me about what happened that day, you know, with Faith. Faith was kind of in one of her moods, as he would say. I don't know. He would say that, like, Faith would try to argue with him or start an argument so she could leave. And I don't. That's not the case because, you know, me going through everything I went through with this man, like, he was. I was starting to start an argument so I could leave. So I don't think that was the case with Faith. I think that's just how he perceived it. But I guess they were at the bar, and they went back to the house, and, like, Faith had just seen her mom and was upset about her brother. And he acts like he wasn't doing anything wrong. But, you know, I know Ryan, how he acts around other people, and I'm sure he was doing something disrespectful and that she poured beer on him, and it pissed Ronica off. So that's when, you know, Ranika and Faith kind of got into it. But he acted like it wasn't a big deal. Like, you know, but why would Ronica take a shower afterwards if it wasn't a big deal? And. And then I asked him a lot, like, okay, so if Faith took off, why were you not right behind her? Y' all were in Sasauqua. It's scary and dark and white girls don't go to Sasauqua if you're from around here. You know, you do not go to Sasauqua at night. And he. He would say, well, because I was caught in between my mom and in between Faith. And I said, okay, so how long did it take you before you went after her? Well, he tells me, like, 15 to 30 minutes.

Troy Taylor (18:36)

15 to 30 minutes. Okay.

Stevie (18:38)

Yeah. And to me, that's just not right. You should have been. You should have been right behind her.

Troy Taylor (18:44)

Does it sound like something he would do if she walked off after she'd had a fight with Veronica? Would he just sit there and wait, or would he go after her?

Stevie (18:51)

No, he would not have been right behind her. He was never right behind me.

Troy Taylor (18:56)

Right, but I mean, like, if she'd walked away, would he have just let her walk?

Stevie (19:00)

Yeah, 100%.

Troy Taylor (19:02)

Right.

Stevie (19:03)

100% that he's got that I don't give a fuck attitude about everything.

Troy Taylor (19:10)

But if they were in a. If they were in an argument, you think he would have gone out after her if he and she were arguing or he would let her walk away?

Stevie (19:20)

I don't know. I mean, I don't know, because even, like, when we would be arguing and I would walk, like, just take off and walk away, you wouldn't be behind me.

Troy Taylor (19:32)

Okay. He'd let you go.

Stevie (19:33)

Yeah.

Troy Taylor (19:34)

Okay. Okay.

Stevie (19:35)

He never followed me. He never, like, never.

Troy Taylor (19:38)

And then. So he. So he said that they. You know, he waited for about half an hour, and then what. What. What happened then?

Stevie (19:45)

And then he got his. Got a flashlight and went looking for her.

Troy Taylor (19:50)

And then he sort of talk you through the detail there. He just. He didn't really get in much.

Stevie (19:55)

He doesn't know.

Sue (Amanda's Aunt) (19:56)

He.

Stevie (19:57)

He doesn't go real deep into detail. He's told me about, like, you know, him finding her and then him hollering and then him saying, like, that's where the Doberman pincher came in. That was what they nicknamed Faith. I think that's like her. That was like her. Ryan and Ronica's nickname for Faith was dopamine. Like a. Yeah, like a Doberman pincher. Because she's little, but she was feisty.

Troy Taylor (20:28)

Wow. Okay, so you. So then if he said to the cowboy, then tell, tell, go tell mom that Doberman's been hit.

Sue (Amanda's Aunt) (20:35)

Yep.

Stevie (20:38)

And then, see, in the podcast, there's a Bobby. Right. Okay, well, Ryan's dad's name is Bobby.

Troy Taylor (20:45)

It is.

Stevie (20:46)

Yeah, it is. And Ryan's dad also has a truck just like the one that's seen on the footage, and he also has a trailer just like the one that's seen on the footage.

Troy Taylor (20:55)

Do you know where Bobby lives, like, an area?

Stevie (20:56)

I sure do.

Troy Taylor (20:57)

You do?

Stevie (20:58)

I do.

Troy Taylor (20:59)

Is it local to where Smurf's place is to we worker.

Stevie (21:03)

Yeah.

Troy Taylor (21:03)

Did he ever talk to you about who was there at the tailgate that night? Like the.

Stevie (21:07)

No.

Troy Taylor (21:08)

Cook Cookout and stuff?

Stevie (21:09)

No, no, from him. It was just them. See, I've heard. So I've been like, you know, okay, I'm a very spiritual person, and I feel like Faith came to me one day, and, you know, like, I really feel like she's trying to help me. Like, I'm about to cry because, you know, she deserves that. She deserves for everybody to know what happened to her. And I felt like she came at me and, like, she's telling me that she's gonna try to be with me. And, like, you know, because I've been asking all kinds of people. Like, I'm not a very. I'm not out there. I stay home. But I do have people in town that come over, and. And, I mean, I bring her up, you know, and so different people have told me different things, and I've been trying to put the pieces together myself, but, I mean, one person told me that there was a party that night. And then another person told me that where we know Faith was found was not where Faith was heard at. And then, um, another person has told me that Ronica went to Shawnee and picked them up that night. And Lauren was hitting on her the whole way back to Smurf's house. And whenever they got there, that Faith took off running. And to my knowledge, they were living with Veronica and they were working, and they didn't have cell phones and all this. But this person who told Matt he was hitting on her the whole way home told me that they had cell phones and that they were living in Shawnee.

Troy Taylor (22:44)

Was Ryan running drugs?

Stevie (22:48)

I don't know. Ryan running drugs. Ryan never had money. I know Ryan knows a lot of people who do drugs.

Troy Taylor (22:56)

I've been told by a couple of people that Ryan would have, like, different SIM cards and, like, use other people's phones with his SIM cards. Is that right?

Sue (Amanda's Aunt) (23:03)

No.

Stevie (23:05)

Do you know why I have. No. I don't know. I could never figure it out. But I would find some cards all the time, and, like, it wasn't the beginning of our relationship. It was more towards, like, the end of our relationship. I mean, I found, like, a SIM card in my window seal and some cards just hidden in random places.

Sue (Amanda's Aunt) (23:27)

I've.

Stevie (23:27)

I found a sheriff's badge.

Troy Taylor (23:30)

You found a sheriff's badge?

Stevie (23:32)

Shawnee patrolman badge, actually.

Troy Taylor (23:34)

In your house?

Stevie (23:36)

Yes, I have. So I've lived in the same house since I was 15. I'm a very observant person, you know, so I notice little things that most people aren't going to notice. I Have little holes in my wall. There's one in my. Little holes, like, little holes, like, perfectly drilled, perfectly placed holes, like, just started

Troy Taylor (24:07)

appearing around your house?

Stevie (24:09)

Yep. There's one in my kids's room. There's one in my living room. There's one in my foyer.

Troy Taylor (24:17)

Oh, you think the house is bugged?

Stevie (24:20)

Yeah, for sure. I know for sure. I know for sure. Behind that whole. There is a camera, and it's a wired camera.

Troy Taylor (24:26)

So you found a camera behind one of those holes?

Stevie (24:29)

I haven't got between the walls or nothing, but I know that's what it is because why is there a hole there? When I take a picture of that little bitty hole, it's like, you know, you can tell there's definitely a camera.

Troy Taylor (24:41)

So when did you start noticing those?

Stevie (24:45)

I probably started noticing now. Two months. Two months before I got. I was done with him. And I mean, like, in my foyer, they were hidden, like this hole that I'm staring at right now. It was hidden behind little mirrors, like you.

Troy Taylor (25:00)

The mirrors that you hung up?

Stevie (25:02)

No, I didn't put them there. He did.

Troy Taylor (25:04)

Okay, so. So he put these mirrors on the wall, Little mirrors?

Stevie (25:09)

Yeah, I took them down.

Troy Taylor (25:10)

And that's where you found the holes behind these mirrors?

Stevie (25:13)

Yeah.

Troy Taylor (25:13)

So the house that you're living in now, is that. Was that your mom's house?

Stevie (25:18)

No, my mom was killed out in Bethel. And oddly enough, I did want to live there. So, like, she's kind of still there, but she's not because she's with me. And I feel like that's why I've outlived her, because she was 32, and I made it to 33. Just turned 33 in December, and me. And I got rid of Ryan January 2nd. I woke up, and he was gone when I woke up. Oh, my God, the relief off my shoulders. Because, I mean, just being around Ryan, I. I mean, I was just so tense all the time. I mean, I would. I felt it in my neck. And ever since he's been gone, the house is lighter. You're lighter, the kids are lighter.

Troy Taylor (25:59)

If you were to try and say what you think probably went down on that night, do you want to, like, have you got any thoughts on that?

Stevie (26:07)

I mean, our. I've tried not to think about it, but that's what makes it so difficult is because, like, I know he sat here and cried to me about Faith, you know, And I know that, like, I want to believe that he didn't do anything to her, but I also know that that look in his eyes when he tried to kill me, so. And as Veronica, I don't. I feel like it's just. That's her son, you know, that's her firstborn son, so she just couldn't have his back. Ultimately, she would have all of her kids back. She would die for all of her kids.

Troy Taylor (26:42)

Yeah. When you said about when he tried to kill you, is that when you were in the bathroom?

Stevie (26:46)

Yeah. Yeah, I saw it. I saw it in his eyes that time.

Troy Taylor (26:55)

I'm just about to finish up on my call with Stevie when something pops into the back of my mind. After Rosemary's voice message the other day, she'd sent me a copy of the McGirt vs Oklahoma ruling, and I'd spent a couple of hours breaking it down and getting a better understanding of what it all meant. It seems that on the back of the McGirt case Rosemary had been referring to, the Supreme Court had ruled 5, 4 that a large portion of eastern Oklahoma is still legally recognized as Native American reservation land. And because it was never officially de. Established by Congress for all legal purposes, it's still considered Indian country. Therefore, specifically relating to the McGirt case, because the suspect was Native American and the crime had occurred on Native American land, the investigation and prosecution of the crime was not considered Oklahoma state jurisdiction. And as it was a major violent crime, it actually fell under federal jurisdiction. And that went on to set the precedent that all serious crimes committed in Oklahoma on Native American land, where the suspect was Native American, but be considered federal jurisdiction under the Major Crimes Act. I don't know exactly what it means for Faith's case, but I have someone on the phone who just might be able to help Give me at least a part of the answer to that. It's a long shot, but the long shots are usually the ones worth taking. You must be getting pretty late for you. So I should let you go. But there was one more thing that I want to ask you about. Do you know whether Ryan or Ronica are Native American at all?

Stevie (28:28)

Yes, they are. They are.

Troy Taylor (28:31)

Okay.

Stevie (28:31)

I know Ryan does not have. I know Ryan does not have his travel card. I know Veronica does.

Troy Taylor (28:38)

She does. You know? She does have it.

Stevie (28:40)

Yeah, she Cherokee. I know she has her roll number. Oh, I believe. I believe so.

Troy Taylor (28:48)

Okay. Okay. Faith's case is still open, and her killer or killers have not yet been brought to justice. If you know anything about Faith, her death, or those who may be responsible, we'd like to hear from you. Please visit EchoSpace Media Tips and either leave a voicemail or send us a message. You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram. Luntforce Trauma Podcast if you're enjoying this podcast, please consider our subscriber option on Apple Podcasts or patreon@patreon.com Echospacepodcasts where you get access to early episode drops, ad free episodes, and bonus content across all of the Echo Space shows. If you'd like to keep up to date with progress on Faith's case, please visit and find follow the justice for Faith Ely Facebook page. You'll find a link to it in the episode.

Mark Girouli (30:08)

Notes.

Troy Taylor (30:09)

Blunt Force Trauma is a production of Echo Space, written and hosted by Troy Taylor. Executive producers are Troy Taylor, Mark Girouli, and Fred Schurzer. Our main theme song is Lose My Mind by Maya Davidoff, and the show also contains audio content from Moby Graudis.