B (3:54)

Clock.

A (3:54)

He tells me that that was like a 30 second conversation because as soon as they were like, well, I'm going to keep the decision, I was like, bye. First time in a long time where I drove home and as soon as I walked in the house I went to the fridge and got a beer and sat on my deck. What the hell kind of day did I just have? Yeah. Then I woke up this morning feeling like, okay, like this is all fine, this is all good. We'll move forward. It's probably better we figured this out now instead of two months from now or a year from now or whatever and because there'd be more damage done if that was the case. So I go this morning into Microsoft. I'm like, all right, I got to change the email, turn off access to all our tools and stuff. And in that I think I'm doing it all right and so that I can get access to it. And all of a sudden I can't log in to out to Microsoft like and I freaked thinking like I think I just shut down my account. Like I think I just gave ownership to this email address to the account which is the admin account. And I can't get into that one even though I changed the password. Cause I can't authenticate it because that it was and did try to get onto Microsoft. I don't know if anybody's. You have to Google the Microsoft phone number first of all because if all their support online, you have to log in. And I couldn't log in cause it wasn't recognized. It suddenly said it wouldn't recognize my account. Yeah, took me that Google the number call 15 times before I can get a human online. Because every time I'd answer a question it would lead to this solution of like, oh well, go try to change your password. Thanks for calling Microsoft. Goodbye. Like then you get the, oh, try to this finally get it and realize I didn't log out, it was just an error code or whatever. But man, there you go. That's my last 24 hours.

B (5:34)

24 hours. Yeah. Well, it's interesting because like I know in this case the, the person that is in question here was somebody that you were very excited about. I was super excited off air two weeks ago. You were telling me about them and I know you were really excited. I could see it. And you know what's interesting because we've talked about kind of like higher slow, fire fast. But we haven't talked about even if you hire slow, which I know you did on this one because you've been planning this for a long time and I know you talked about it in terms of your long range vision. We had that whole podcast about kind of planning for the future when we said, hey Everybody, we're in Q3, so you better be going, you know, what do you do that even if you do hire slow, you know, and the person is like that, we talk about fire fast. If you see that they're overtly just, you know, not right doing something wrong, like in a really pernicious way that can't be helped. Like you haven't, you've, you know, trying coaching and all that kind of stuff, they just can't get it. That's one thing. But in this case, somebody who kind of comes in and you're putting a lot of stock into them, you've, you've had expenses for training, you've done all this stuff and you really believe in this person and then they suddenly are like, man, I don't know if this is for me.

A (6:50)

Yep.

B (6:51)

And you know, I, it's, it's tough because. And I think there's the great lesson of don't count your chickens before they're hatched.

A (7:03)

100.

B (7:03)

So, you know, you see it all the time. Like in big companies, they make major announcements for, for people and then all of a sudden like one month in, that person's gone suddenly or whatever. And it's like, you know, and then you see other companies that will, they've been going through the hiring process for a year or two for a key position and they basically announce it a week before the person's supposed to start. So they've done all the vetting. The person's. If they've gotten cold feet, they're kind of over it by now. Or they've talked. They either talked out of it or they're. The search continues is the headline or whatever. But I think as you were explaining how it kind of went down to me off air. We don't have to get into the details. I think you did it the right way. You know, like the person was committed to leaving and. Or maybe kind of non committally committing, you know, like they were like, well, you know, I think. And then they start blaming like, well, it's because of this and it's because of that. And basically you tried to work through it quick and then the second time they did it, you were like, okay, done.

A (8:05)

Yeah, it was, it was so off putting, I'll tell you. I can't, I don't want to completely bury you. No, no, no. I think the person really missed a huge opportunity. I think this person could have really done some really good things. And so that was like the shocking part of it. It was like, wait a minute, what? Like I don't. But what was off putting was instead of being honest about what it was because the more I thought about it and then I talked to other people of like, okay, what kind of conversations do you have? And without asking like, hey, did they say this or do that? You just start being like, yep. Nope. I think my gut of what happened here is probably right. Was never what he, what this person said. It was immediately like, oh, it's all your fault, so I'm gonna. It was like, that seems odd. Like the things that they were complaining about, like I said, could have some validity to it. We're all things that are relatively easy to fix. Or if I was in that situation and everybody's different and I was having some of these feelings, I would go and be like, hey, I'm having these Feelings. Can we fix them? And if somebody was like, now, screw you. We're not fixing anything, then maybe. But that wasn't. I was like, give me. What. What's wrong? And I even laid out, like, here's how we can fix these things, like, tomorrow. And when. When the five hours later or whatever, it was like, no, I still want to resign. It was like, oh, those weren't the issues. Those definitely weren't the issues. And that's when I was like, okay, effective immediately. Good. Well, I wanna. Nope, nope, we're good. We're out. Bye.

B (9:32)

Yeah, you gotta do it because it's just, like, dragging things out. And, you know, it's. It's. There's a couple things, you know, that person, from your perspective, that person has missed an opportunity. I also think, you know, because you were so. You were so thoughtful ahead of time about what you wanted to accomplish. There's also a bit of a lost opportunity for you. But I don't think it's in any way negative because I think you've also learned something, too, about personality. And maybe in the hiring process next time. What other questions can you ask to maybe get this type of a person out? And, you know, a long time ago, when I was in ski business, we had a guy come in as a. As a vice president of the company and. Or sales manager. He was ridiculously experienced. Like, but he went through the onboarding, which can be a laborious, boring process. Like, when you do corporate onboarding, it's like all these rules and regulations. But he was great because he taught me, no matter how good you think you are or what level you're coming in, he's like, in order for me to do my job effectively, I have to know how everybody works, how everybody thinks, how they present themselves. So he went through the onboarding and he asked a ton of questions. He never said, oh, we do it this way, or I don't know why we're doing it like that, or, I don't have to go through this. I'm super experienced. Never did it once.

A (11:05)

That came out of this person's mouth a lot, from what I'm finding out, which was crazy. Yeah.

B (11:10)

And he was. And this is. I'm telling you, this guy was, like, really experienced. And he was like, okay. And he'd ask questions. He never, like, commented, like, well, you should think of this as he's going, like. But he was making a ton of notes. And ultimately he was able to process kind of how everybody kind of functioned and kind of their personalities. So that when he really assumed the role that he was hired for, and not just in name and title, but in practice, he had a great rapport with people because he could approach all the people in the various aspects of the business in a really good way that kind of married to them and didn't make them feel like they were being like, you know, beneath him or anything like that. He was great, and I learned that from him. So, you know, it's kind of like there are people that really, if they really see it as an opportunity, they're gonna. You're not gonna have any of those types of problems. And I think in the hiring process, trying to have those conversations about kind of ego is. Is really important. But also, you may have to look at the way you kind of explained as a business owner, Are you explaining that process to them in a way that makes sense to them up front? Because sometimes, you know, we've talked about it where you get the head nodders like, okay, yeah, huh. Yeah, there's a kind of PCU that's going. Seems like it's going in the right direction, but maybe they're not paying attention because you told them everything to expect. Then they go through it and they're like, well, this is what I expected. Well, how could it not be? We literally said, yeah, well.

A (12:50)

And what I think the reason for this person leaving was, too, was a direct question. We asked, like, multiple. Everybody asked in the interview because it was a concern going in. And it teaches you. Part of it is that, you know, when somebody wants something in their interviewing, they are pretty. They could be very convincing. Right? Because they've kind of thought of their answers ahead of time and. And they've played it out. And, you know, so that's why, again, I've always said, like, hiring is not 100%. Nobody bats 100%. And I, I wanted to share it to be like, look at me. Like, this is. This is not the first time. This is actually. We actually had a hiring. This was a couple years ago where we hired for a role down there, and the person left for another job within two months. And what pissed me off most about that one was like, we just gave him a really expensive, like, Christmas gift. It's so bad. But anyways, we don't b. We don't bat a th. But it is. It is eye opening on, like, okay, like you said, like, how could we have asked it differently? And I do think when we hire a replacement, which we're going to do quickly, that person will be set up for even more Success. Because there is some things that were said that I was like, we should have done this differently, or we can add this to that process.

B (14:02)

Absolutely.

A (14:03)

And that's.

B (14:04)

That's important that you do that.

A (14:05)

Yeah. And that's good. But it was like, man, I just couldn't wrap my head around. I'm like, this is why you're residing. I was like, are you serious?

B (14:12)

Here's the thing, and I'll say this. In the moment, you feel like, what a waste. What a waste that person, like, like, did for themselves, and what a waste for my business. Get that out of your head as fast as you possibly can. Because ultimately, what I've learned and in the long run, that don't mean anything.

A (14:31)

It doesn't. It's sitting in the wall, doesn't mean it.

B (14:34)

That just kind of stewing it, like, I got it wrong can lead to a lot of things, like not doing it better next time. Well, maybe we don't even need that role. And you can kind of pull back and kind of. Kind of make this cascading series of really poor decisions. I look at it this way. In the long run, those type of people that wash out, they either were with your company and they did what they did while they were there and thanks, but they're gone, or they were never really going to impact your business the way you had hoped or foreseen at all, and now you just move on to someone who will.

A (15:04)

Yeah, I think what the good thing, like I said, was this happened a week and not a month or two months or five months or whatever. Further down the line, it's like, okay, it's as frustrating as it is that it was a week. It was like, I think this. I think this person is a great person. I really don't have a problem with the person. And I think, again, I'm sad by the fact that I. I really think this person missed some massive opportunities down the line. But what. The only thing that pissed me off was that I think the reasoning behind it was illegitimate. Like, I just wish somebody would have been like, hey, listen, yeah, this isn't gonna work for me.

B (15:41)

And I've been like, fine, but sometimes that's really hard. So they just kind of take easy ways out. But it. But you did the right thing and just saying, okay, well, tell me, like, just so. And even if you coach this, all right, I get you want to leave, and that's fine. Obviously, you're free to do what you want, but can you just give me a few things that maybe I can look at so we can improve upon in our process going forward. Just like, you know, he's probably. Or she's probably asked in the past for people like, hey, how can I improve? Or whatever. You know, I, I think that's all you can really do in this case, but learn from it and, and move on. It kind of sucks when it happens, but it also shows the peril of putting kind of an emotional stake in somebody new.

A (16:26)

Yep.

B (16:28)

Because I know how excited you were because.

A (16:30)

Yep.

B (16:31)

You probably. You probably spent 10 minutes off air two weeks ago.

A (16:34)

Yeah.

B (16:35)

Talking about this person and. And on and on and on, which was great. And I could see hear the passion in your voice and all that.

A (16:42)

But I thought we had a great thing.

B (16:44)

The risk then, despite all that, if it doesn't work out is. And I know you're not going to be in this case. I, I know part of the benefit of doing this podcast is you're going to say it on here and vent it out and then it's done. But everybody needs a way out of kind of getting over that because you don't want paralysis, you know, from this type of thing affecting your business. So learn from it. Move on. Just go back and hit the road immediately. You know, it's not that they're a bad person. Sometimes things just don't work out. I mean, that's all it is.

A (17:17)

You know, it's. I don't hold any animosity. Like, I, you know, people will end up figuring it out, especially in certain regions, but I.

B (17:25)

Sometimes they're doing you a favor because I've gone home and reflected at home and said, this isn't right for me for whatever reason, and therefore it's not right for them. And, and they may not go about leaving the right way.

A (17:43)

However, I think that's what happened. I do. I honestly think that that's what happened. When I reflected on and heard different conversations and all that, I think it was very much that. I think the person reflected and realized that the role required more than they thought, maybe. Or just wasn't the right fit or was it going to work out well or what have you. Yeah. My only gripe is, I wish you just said that instead of the, like, wow, this person did this and this person said that, and this person didn't do this, and you guys all suck. So that's okay, dude.

B (18:14)

Like, no, yeah, I, I hear it. You know, the best course of action is cut bait, move on.

A (18:19)

Yeah. So I was like, just be done.

B (18:21)

With it, because any, Any, Any minute spent talking about it is a minute of wasted time and opportunity. And I know it's hard, like, especially at the outset, but I. I like what you did, though. You know, you. You got the call, you went home, you had a beer.

A (18:35)

No, beer has tasted better. That. That beer was awesome.

B (18:37)

You know, sometimes you got to do that. You gotta remember, like, self care. I'm not saying you have to have a beer or whatever, but, like, just take a break, breathe. A little bit of self care goes a long way. But had you not done that, you know, that. That second conversation might have been, you know, not as fruitful.

A (18:55)

Yeah.

B (18:55)

You might have been arguing for a person that really just needed to be gone.

A (18:59)

Yeah, I started that way. And then I think I realized, like, okay, listen, like, I. I can tell you the solution to the problems you're giving me. You have to decide if you want them. So the way the first conversation end was that it was kind of like, at first, it was shock. And I'll tell you, my first initial gut reaction was to tell the person, bye, like this. Like, like. But I didn't. I was like, tell me, like, what's going on? What happened? And in that conversation, we talked for a while. I was like, okay, these are all fair. If these are real, these are all fair things. I go, here's the solution. I literally laid out the solution, and I said, but you have to decide if you want to be part of the solution or not. And so that's what he's like, all right, give me 24 hours. And then when they called me back in five, I knew exactly. I was like, that's when he's like, when they were like, yeah, I'm sticking to my decision. Okay, bye. Like, yeah, that's it. We're done.

B (19:47)

That's good. That's a great. It's a great way to do it. You know, you'll get beyond it quicker.

A (19:53)

The next person who we're going to hire is going to be even better. Like, that's. They're going to be better situated. We're going to learn from it. And.

B (19:59)

And you'll have a different approach to the interviewing process. And, you know, your teams will have a different approach, possibly to the onboarding process when you get somebody on and all those things are positive. And I. I am like the. You can absolutely get lemonade out of every lemon.

A (20:19)

Yeah. I think this person's gonna do.

B (20:21)

Got to be willing to ask the questions and look in the mirror a little bit, and you'll end up in a much better spot.

A (20:26)

I think this person does. Will do great things.

B (20:28)

I'm like, hey, I'm sorry that happened to you. But you know what? On the other hand, I'm glad it happened to you because now you're not going to have a person who's checked out half the time because, you know, they couldn't bring themselves to. They made a commitment in their mind. They wanted to commit. Maybe they really like the team, but then it wasn't for them.

A (20:44)

And.

B (20:44)

And I've been on both sides where people, like, resign almost immediately, which is almost the best way for it to happen.

A (20:51)

Yeah.

B (20:51)

Or they're in it for a while and, you know, they're not putting in the time and the effort and the energy and because they're feeling like this isn't for me. And they've got that kind of nue that goes along with it.

A (21:05)

And I think the person did us a favor. I think. I do believe that they did what was right by them and ultimately what was right by us. And it was better that it happened now, like, when I reflect on. It's better that happened now, like you said, than two months from now. I hold no animosity. I think I still believe in this person. I will go back to my heartbreaks as I think this person missed.

B (21:29)

Yeah.

A (21:29)

Huge opportunities down there.

B (21:31)

And here's the other thing.

A (21:32)

But that has to be on them. That's their decision.

B (21:34)

I've. I've also seen it, Tim, where someone in this exact kind of scenario doesn't work out, and then they come around two years later and they're ready to go.

A (21:47)

Yeah. That's when my ego might be like, too bad.

B (21:50)

Well, yeah, but that's when you gotta, like, you know. You know, if they tried not to burn a bridge, there's probably a reason. And I. I don't think you should burn bridges on either side of it. But you don't. You don't really know. I've had people that I like, like loved and admired dearly, that worked for me and left. And while I was like, ah, that really is gonna suck for us in a moment, I've never tried to keep them.

A (22:16)

Yeah.

B (22:17)

Because I know that when. Sometimes when people make the commitment and they work up the courage to come in and tell, you know, somebody they worked with for years, hey, I gotta go. There's an opportunity for me over here. I'm like, dude, you're ready. Go for it. And I can tell you, out of a lot of Those things, probably 20 to 30% or so came back within two to three years.

A (22:44)

Right.

B (22:45)

And I was more than willing to, like, put them back in and find something for them because I knew how they could perform, but they had to go out and find themselves.

A (22:54)

Yeah, we just had that, you know, that story with a different employee.

B (22:57)

Yeah, yeah. You know, you got. You got to go out and find yourself and, you know, and, and that's okay because typically when they come back, they are way more grounded. They know who they are, they know what they want, they're ready to commit. So you don't know what the future holds. But, you know, the conversation might be different.

A (23:17)

Yeah.

B (23:19)

But you, you know, you never know.

A (23:21)

Yeah. I, I, Again, I. Maybe that's the case, and maybe we'll be open to that. I think. I. Anyways, the point of the whole podcast was to show, like, we all have crazy weeks and crazy days and.

B (23:34)

Yeah.

A (23:35)

It just has been one of those. The one this morning, though, when I text you because we were supposed to record earlier and I thought I locked myself out. I was, like, ready to throw my computer against the wall because I was like, how the hell did I just do this?

B (23:45)

Like, I know.

A (23:47)

Where is my brain? It's unbelievable.

B (23:50)

It's probably because you were still emotionally jacked up.

A (23:54)

Well, I. Well, yeah, I think there was just this, like, this is still happening.

B (23:58)

Yeah, it happened. But, yeah, you start fearing the word. Yeah. It's like this whole thing, that's the importance. What do we say? Like. Like a couple months ago, we were talking about, you just gotta step back and breathe.

A (24:10)

Yep.

B (24:11)

When. When the proverbial stuff hits the fan, as an owner, as a manager, as a leader, you gotta know when to just step back and say, take a breath. Well, let me think it through rationally. And usually it's. It's much simpler a solution than when you're in the emotional state, because when an emotional state, everything's the end.

A (24:34)

Right.

B (24:34)

And, you know, so, yeah, we all, we all go through it. Sorry that you had that the last 24 hours.

A (24:39)

It's just been a day. It's all good. I like it. I think at the end of the day, it'll. It'll. Like we said it. It's better for everybody. It's better for them, better for us.

B (24:48)

We're in it with you all out there listening. Yeah. Yeah, we're definitely in it with you.

A (24:53)

So we'll. We'll move forward. But anyways, good to see you again. We'll be back. If you got any questions, topics, etc, go to bnipowerof1.com you can leave them there, let us know and we'd love to hear from you. We'd like this show to be more of yours, so hear what challenges and struggles and whatever else you're facing that we could maybe be of help with.

B (25:12)

All right. Bye, everybody.

A (25:13)

See it?