BNI 848: Business Matters 130 - Sometimes It Is OK to Step Back

Summary

Detailed Summary of BNI 848: Business Matters 130 - Sometimes It Is OK to Step Back

Released on August 13, 2025, "BNI & The Power of One" Hosted by Tim Roberts dives deep into the complexities of leadership within BNI chapters. In episode 848, titled "Business Matters 130 - Sometimes It Is OK to Step Back," hosts Sam and Michael Martin explore the challenges leaders face, the importance of self-awareness, and strategies to prevent burnout.

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1. Introduction

In this episode, Sam and Michael Martin engage in a candid conversation about the pressures of leadership within BNI (Business Network International) chapters. They address concerns raised by listeners regarding the expectations placed on members and leaders, the potential for burnout, and the delicate balance of maintaining effectiveness without overextending oneself.

2. BNI Culture and Member Expectations

The discussion begins with reflections on a recent podcast episode that delved into the inadvertent culture within BNI where members feel responsible for each other's success. Sam remarks:

"I thought it brought up a lot of interesting things about roles, responsibilities, leadership." [02:04]

Michael echoes this sentiment, highlighting a critical issue:

"There's a level of frustration that's leading to a lot of misperceptions of how BNI works and how you want it to work." [03:38]

They emphasize the importance of clear communication of expectations and the need for proper training and mentoring. Sam points out:

"You don't know what you don't know. That's the first thing that I wanted to say out of that." [04:52]

3. Leadership and Burnout

A significant portion of the conversation centers on the phenomenon of burnout among BNI leaders. Michael shares his personal experience:

"I've been in the exact same boat. I... realized, like, I'm just going to come in and be frustrated and mad and angry... and I stepped off." [09:56]

Sam adds his perspective on the emotional toll leadership can take:

"It's an uncomfortable thing to approach that subject. So that introspection is really important in leadership." [14:15]

They discuss how prolonged frustration can negatively impact both the individual and the chapter, leading to a cycle where leadership roles become seen as obligations rather than opportunities.

4. Mentoring and Onboarding New Members

Both hosts stress the critical role of mentoring in BNI. Michael notes:

"You have to give like an on ramp of time for them to get up to speed to what you've been doing. And that's where that mentoring comes into play." [06:13]

Sam emphasizes the necessity of clear communication and active engagement:

"Have a story for your business, make sure it's clearly communicated... A lot of people nod their heads... but they don't register what you were saying." [06:57]

They advocate for comprehensive onboarding processes to ensure new members are well-equipped to meet BNI's standards and contribute effectively.

5. Personal Experiences and Reflections

Sam and Michael share their personal journeys of stepping back from leadership roles to preserve their mental well-being. Sam recounts:

"I had to step off... because I was in a tipping point. I felt mentally where I was going to detract from the mission and not add to it anymore." [09:54]

Michael relates a similar experience, highlighting the importance of recognizing one's limits:

"I stepped off. And that was 2020, 2025 years ago. And then I just stepped back on this year, like two months ago." [17:16]

These anecdotes underscore the necessity of self-awareness and the courage to prioritize personal health over continual leadership.

6. Solutions and Strategies

The hosts propose several strategies to mitigate burnout and foster a healthier leadership environment within BNI:

• Regular Leadership Training: Michael mentions the annual leadership training aimed at increasing visibility and credibility while addressing burnout by distributing responsibilities more evenly.

  "When it comes to networking, visibility is important, credibility is important... But also the burnout factor." [10:08]

• Encouraging Role Rotation: They suggest that leadership roles should not be seen as permanent obligations but as opportunities that rotate, allowing fresh ideas and reducing the burden on individual leaders.

• Promoting Open Communication: Creating an environment where members feel comfortable expressing frustrations and seeking support without fear of judgment.

• Embracing Mentoring: Emphasizing the role of experienced members in guiding newcomers, ensuring that expectations are met with adequate support and resources.

7. Conclusion

In wrapping up the episode, Sam and Michael reiterate the importance of leadership self-care and the value of stepping back when necessary. Sam reflects:

"I hope it helps others." [19:18]

Michael adds a call to action for listeners to engage with the podcast, share their experiences, and contribute to a more supportive BNI community.

"We definitely want to talk about it, make this show more yours." [20:02]

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Key Takeaways:

• Self-Awareness is Crucial: Leaders must regularly assess their own capacity and well-being to sustain effective leadership.

• Mentorship Enhances Success: Proper mentoring and onboarding can bridge knowledge gaps and align member expectations.

• Addressing Burnout Prevents Decline: Recognizing and addressing burnout early can preserve both personal health and the vitality of the chapter.

• Fostering a Supportive Culture: Encouraging open communication and role rotation can create a more resilient and dynamic leadership structure.

This episode provides valuable insights for BNI members and leaders, emphasizing that stepping back is not a sign of weakness but a strategic move towards long-term success and sustainability within the organization.

Transcript

[Sam]

Sam.

[Michael Martin]

Welcome back to business matters, part of B and I and the Power of One. Tim Roberts. With me, Michael Martin.

[Sam]

How are we doing? Good. We're in the middle of a little heat wave out here in the northeast corridor.

[Michael Martin]

I'm over it. Yep. I'm over it. Make me, like, ready for fall?

[Sam]

It's coming in a few weeks.

[Michael Martin]

I know. So then all of a sudden, it's going to be here.

[Sam]

Only a month away. Yeah, it's about a month.

[Michael Martin]

I did see a picture online the other day of somebody saying, pretty soon this is what golf will look like. And it was all the colored foliage and stuff.

[Sam]

Like, ye.

[Michael Martin]

Yeah.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Michael Martin]

Ready for those days.

[Sam]

Cool. Cool nights. Good for sleeping.

[Michael Martin]

But it's not that bad. I was on a meeting yesterday and with somebody from Arizona who said last week they had hit 125 at their house. So I was like, oh, that's good. Next level. Gross.

[Sam]

That's. Yeah, that's just gross.

[Michael Martin]

Yeah, that is debilitating.

[Sam]

But it's a dry heat.

[Michael Martin]

Yeah, Yeah, I know. My friend says that. Nate says all the time. I go, yeah, so is my oven. You don't see me sticking my head.

[Sam]

It's a little. It's a little toasty. Yeah, a little toasty.

[Michael Martin]

But, yeah, we move forward, so I'm looking forward to the fall. It'll be time.

[Sam]

Me too. Speaking. I, I, I know I talked to you off air. I texted you off air about the podcast that went up as we're recording this. It went up yesterday, but I'm not sure when this will come out, but, man, I thought it brought up a lot of interesting things about roles, responsibilities, leadership.

[Michael Martin]

This is the one that was about BNI inadvertently creating a culture of other being responsible for other people kind of thing.

[Sam]

Yes, yes, yes. That's that. That was the one. I forgot the title of it, but, yeah, that's it. And, and kind of like, like, kind of self or introspection.

[Michael Martin]

Yep.

[Sam]

Self awareness. So I, I thought, you know, I mean, I gotta hand it to the person who wrote in, because it's not easy to just come out and say all that. And I know didn't request anonymity. You know, just like, hey, this is how I feel, and here we go. And so I think that speaks a lot to that person and their character, but it brought up a lot of things. And so, you know, I have my takes on some of the stuff that was.

[Michael Martin]

We should definitely talk. I'll just start with saying, like, yeah, I appreciate anybody who submits anything, and you can always do it. Anonymous. But you could tell in the question, as I read through it, I was like, there's just a level of frustration that's leading to a lot of misperceptions of stuff and how BNI works and how you want it to work. I think one thing in particular was, you know, we've had the debates in BNI before around like, do we need to be taking over leadership at the chapter level as an organization more? And it always comes back to no. It really needs to be peer to peer. You know, you don't want some outside person being like looking at a number and making a decision on things. So. Right. But when you get frustrated and burnt out maybe or whatever, it can, you could definitely sense that.

[Sam]

Yeah, yeah. And, and you know, but it touched on so many things because it's like, well, was everybody clear in their expectations? And not just clear in their expectations, but making sure that people rose to met them, providing the proper training, mentoring, you know, having enough. And BNI's case, one on ones with other people that maybe aren't necessarily about, you know, I give you a referral, you give me a referral. But in the relationship building sense that you kind of coach them along and, and make sure that they know things, you know, you don't know what you don't know. That's the first thing that I wanted to say out of that. Right. It's like, it's a common phrase. So in the case of the person who was writing in, there was a strong feeling that, you know, why do I have to keep following up and why does BNI keep making us do these certain steps for follow up when these people should be, as business owners or leaders already responsible for that and can't they just take the initiative to do it? And now, now in one sense, I completely agree. There's a certain point in time where you would hope that leaders and managers and owners would be cognizant of these expectations and meeting or exceeding them on a regular basis. That that should be the hope.

[Michael Martin]

Correct.

[Sam]

But a lot of times, and at least in my experience, I've met pretty seasoned people who in some areas don't know anything.

[Michael Martin]

Yep.

[Sam]

So when an expectation is given, they don't necessarily have the tool set, I'm not saying skill set, but the tool set at their disposal to meet that expectation right away. So I think if you are a person in a position where you know how this thing is supposed to do or be done, you have to take it upon yourself to spend the time and say, hey, this is how we do things.

[Michael Martin]

Yeah, I think there's, there's right. I think I mentioned it in the pod, I'm trying to remember back. But they're like there's a misconception or misperception too of like people will just immediately get it and immediately have the habits for success in bni. And I try to remind even like our team members that it's like just because somebody joined, like they're not in the habit of coming every week yet they're not in the habit of doing a podcast, they're not in the habit of doing a one to one. These are all new things they're adding to their already probably busy schedule in lives. And because you've been a member for 3 years, 4 years, 5 years, 10 years or whatever and it is your habit, you need to give like an on ramp of time for them to get up to speed to what you've been doing. And that's where that mentoring comes into play and like all that kind of stuff.

[Sam]

But explaining clearly, just like we always tell people when we're talking in this podcast, we're always saying like, have a story for your business, you know, make sure it's clearly communicated. Have goals, make sure they're clearly communicated. Have the tactics to meet those goals, make sure they're clearly communicated. Not where people in the room are just nodding their heads. Now that happens a lot in a group dynamic. A lot of people nod their heads when they, they're either checked out or they're, they don't know where to go, but they don't want to look like right. Someone who doesn't know. So they nod their heads yes. And you're up at the front of the room maybe explaining this time or. And you see all the heads nod and you're like, okay, everybody gets it right? No, that's not the case. Probably half the people are checked out. They thought they had a different thought in their mind at the time. They didn't. They knew they heard sounds coming out of your mouth, but they didn't register what you were saying. That's just being, being human.

[Michael Martin]

So.

[Sam]

So I think the thing in BNI's case that you talked about on the podcast where they're literally in the handbook or the playbook of things that directors need to do and leaders need to do and the constant reminders and the follow up reminders and having the conversations is because they already understand part of the human condition is inattention and not inattention because you're flaky. Just you Got a lot of things going on, and this is like one more thing you're trying to fit in. As you just said, an otherwise busy day or week or whatever. So I, I, I think that as a true leader, a recognizing that people are going to need constant mentoring. This is why teams practice all the time. They practice, they run drills, they practice, they run drills. It's the same practice format, it's the same drills over and over and over again. Is because they, they want that drilled into people's brains as the way to success. And the only way to do that is. So that's, that's kind of the first big thing that I picked out of it. But the other thing that I was really thinking about, and I know you were saying you were talking about, like, you got a sense that the person was struggling somehow and frustrated.

[Michael Martin]

Yep.

[Sam]

And there's also the point where as a leader, you have to be really introspective. And just because you did something really well for the last X amount of years, whatever timeline you have, there are parts of you that are going to change. And if you find yourself getting frustrated with team protocols, the group around you, and you don't like the way it makes you feel in that setting, that feeling of frustration, you have to take a good, hard look at. Are you doing what you're doing for the right reasons? Are you in that role for the right reasons? Have you changed? Maybe it's not the other people, you know, because they're always going to be that way, but especially new people when they come in. But have you changed? I, I had the case where I know you know this in my personal life, I've been on a couple of boards for things that were very near and dear to my heart. Local children's hospital, center for ethics at my alma mater, and a few other things. And I, I had to step off of all of them over the course of two years because I didn't like the way I felt a lot in a lot of these things. Like, I felt like, you know, in some cases, I'm just, I'm just not doing enough. I'm not seeing clearly anymore. I don't know why I'm sitting in the room anymore. And on and on and on. And I was like, okay. Rather than kind of put that on everyone else, I got to take ownership of my own feelings. And I think it's just time for me to step away. It took me a long time to learn that because I was on these boards for, in some cases, over a decade.

[Michael Martin]

Right, right.

[Sam]

But had to really step off because I was in a tipping point. I felt mentally where I was going to detract from the mission and not add to it anymore.

[Michael Martin]

I've been in the exact same boat. I. So I just stepped back on. So I'm on our Franchise Advisory Council, but I had the same thing when I was on the franchise. The founding chairman of the president, whatever they call of the Franchise Advisory Council first got established and then left because I came the national director, so I couldn't be on it. I was working with it. And when I left the national director role, they asked me to go back on the faa. And immediately I realized, like, oh, I'm not in a mental place to be able to do this because I was so frustrated with things. I was like, I'm just going to come in and be. I'm going to be frustrated and mad and angry and everything else, and I'm going to distract from everything else. So I stepped off. And that was 20, 20, so five years ago. And then I just stepped back on this year, like two months ago. So, yeah, I think there's a part of. So we're actually. It's funny timing. Tomorrow is our first chapter success training, which is our annual leadership training for each region. And the reason why we do it every year is there's a couple main reasons. Number one is we want to give people an opportunity to shine. Like I told everybody, you know, when it comes to networking, visibility is important, credibility is important. So you have this opportunity to increase those within what you're already doing as part of the chapter. Right. Like, how do you become more visible in a B and I chapter? Take a leadership role and then. But important is do it well, because you could hurt your visibility and credibility just as much. And so we want to give people an opportunity to do that. But another part of it is the burnout factor. It's not that these roles are, like, overly complicated or should require a lot of time, but unfortunately for some chapters, they become that way because one or two people take on everything. Other people aren't doing their roles. They're not engaged, whatever. Whatever the cultural issue might be in the chapter. So it all falls on one or two people. And I kind of get the sense, like, almost reading that question, like, this is somebody who's burnt out from these roles, and they're just done with trying to get people to do things they should be doing. And their view is, I shouldn't have to tell you to do these things. And it's like, yeah, I agree. But there's also certain parts where you do. Yeah. And that burnout factor, I think really becomes key because. And I think I mentioned, I don't remember, but it's like almost like you should step off because I think they were in leadership, they said for like three or four years. It's like, take a break because your frustration is going to come out and it's actually going to negatively impact you and the chapter at that point. And to be able to step back and just take a breath and reset that mind is important.

[Sam]

We've all had to do it, you know, and it's. And it's really hard to do. I mean, I think the people who go to BNI as owners and, and, and supervisors and managers, they're, they tend to be high achievers.

[Michael Martin]

Yep. Right.

[Sam]

They're people who want to get better, they want to succeed, they want to have all that. So you've got that high achiever thing. And anytime something negative happens with a high achiever, they almost see it as like it's a personal thing, that personal failing or something like that. And I've been through it. I know you've been through it. Talked about a lot. But I think it's important to, to understand that you actually get respected when you do it, because if you're feeling it inside, I guarantee you they're not saying anything. But the other people around you feel it. Yep, I feel that energy. They think something's wrong. They don't want to say it. They're hoping for the best for you. But it's an uncomfortable thing to approach somebody about what they perceive as, in, in yourself, as a, as kind of maybe a personal failing or personal frustration. It's hard to kind of broach that subject. So that introspection is really important in leadership because you have to sometimes step back and let other people bring something new, a new voice, a new face, fresh ideas. It doesn't mean anything you've done has gone by the wayside. If you started something, you're always going to be a part of the foundational team.

[Michael Martin]

Right.

[Sam]

That everything's built on. So, you know, you always have that. You know what I mean? And, and, and so. But it's tough, right? I mean, I've gone through it in my professional career where I've just been like, oh man, this is showing through. And, and you know, I'm impacting the team negatively just because I'm frustrated.

[Michael Martin]

Yeah.

[Sam]

And they're all looking to me and I'm frustrated. So what is that going to do for them? Nothing. It's going to make it worse for everybody. So I'm not.

[Michael Martin]

And.

[Sam]

And again, I'm not saying to the person who wrote in or anyone else in the situation, it's bni, but take. Take a different role. Go. Just go sit back in the membership and reestablish your connections. That's probably the stuff that got you excited in the first place. Recharge your batteries, you know, and if there's a leadership role that opens up down the road, you know, are they new every year?

[Michael Martin]

That's the point.

[Sam]

Maybe instead of taking it, you guide somebody into it.

[Michael Martin]

Yep. Or you take something that's, you know, get in the mentoring. That's maybe whatever. There's. There's a million opportunities. Yeah, I. There's a bit of ego involved in it. I know. I'm speaking personally, too. It's, like, hard to give up.

[Sam]

You know, we all have one. Yeah.

[Michael Martin]

That environment or that. And. And bni, that can happen. BNI is uniquely challenging. And that was kind of with the question from the podcast, too, because they were like, I manage people and they're employees. And it's like. And I think they said, and they're not employees. And it's like. Right. That makes it even. It's a unique challenge to be a leader of people. You actually don't have, you know, control, for lack of a better term, over. You have to inspire and lead that activity. If you're getting frustrated and it's coming through, it's. You becomes very counterproductive.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Michael Martin]

Yeah.

[Sam]

And, you know, and if you're feeling like, you know, I don't want to feel like a failure. You know, recognizing, you know, where you need improvement isn't a failure. That's actually a success. Because a lot of people can't do that introspective part. You know, when I was young, I had people say, if you want to be successful, surround yourself with successful people. You have to kind of. You have to put yourself in the position where you're not the smartest person in the room. If you want to grow.

[Michael Martin]

Right.

[Sam]

You got to do things differently. So I would say that. I mean, there are other topics in here we could go down, but I think the most important thing is you got to. If you're a leader, you have to embrace teaching, mentoring, guiding, asking a lot of questions of other people to help them grow on their journey. And, you know, BNI is, I think, uniquely positioned from a networking perspective because givers gain is your credo. And, you know, if you lose sight of that, which Is easy to do when you're busy and you got a million things going on and you got a business to run. You got people that depend on you, and you get. And you're getting frustrated because you got all that. You have to also give yourself a little something, which is a break from some of that stuff I. I had.

[Michael Martin]

When I left the fac. When I left the national director role in the FAC all together. All of a sudden, like, to your point of. People know or feel it. It was funny, like, years where people, like, I didn't hear from people. I'd see them at conferences and they'd be like, well, we were like, afraid to call you.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Michael Martin]

Afraid to ask. Yeah.

[Sam]

Because, you know, you might have, like, that. That face on, like a scalpel and like, oh, I can't get it.

[Michael Martin]

Well, they were like. Because they'd be like, yeah, I'm here to help. And they're like, yeah, but we were like, afraid to ask or afraid to do this because I'd meet them at conference and I'd share stuff, and they're like, oh, my God, this is amazing. I was like, you just call, like, anytime. And they're like, well, so that was also helpful for me to realize, like, okay, like, yeah, I probably left too late, maybe, like, if that's the case.

[Sam]

But yeah, you'll listen. I. I understand. You know, heavy is. Heavy is the crown. I get it. But when you. I guess the gist is when you find that you can't bottle it up anymore and. And you don't have an outlet for it, recognize that it's time to take a step back and go find it out.

[Michael Martin]

Yeah. Re. Engage. Re. Engage in another part. Re. Engage in. You know, let other people shine. Because again, yeah, you. You just become less effective anyways. So you're not only frustrating and hurting yourself, you're not doing what you think you're doing anyways effectively. So, yeah, I think leadership. The biggest problem in our organization. I'll end with this, is the leadership opportunities are often masked as an obligation. And that's always our challenge, is getting people to. Willing to step up and take advantage of the opportunity. And it's often because the perception they have of the role is based on what they see from others who have been in it. And so we're just always in this, like, you know, I mean, so to wrap it up, like, same thing, like, you might be stuck taking all these roles because nobody else wants to step in, but nobody else wants to step in because they're looking at how frustrated you are. And they're like, I don't want that.

[Sam]

Right.

[Michael Martin]

So it becomes this like self perpetuating issue.

[Sam]

You know, I mean, there's that and then lastly there's the people that just bring it into me. Yeah, bring it into me. They can't say no. And I'm not here to tell you it's okay to say no.

[Michael Martin]

Yep, yep. Absolutely.

[Sam]

All right. Say no to your own desires and your own dreams sometimes, you know, to kind of have mental well being. So I think it was a great question and it really was. I would love to know what the writer ends up doing differently, if anything, and then, you know, revisit it down the road and just see. And you know, we don't have to necessarily make it part of the podcast, but I'm very interested in it. I thought it was great. I think it's contains a lot of leadership things that we all face and struggle. So kudos for writing in and I hope we get a follow up at some point.

[Michael Martin]

Just to see it was such an in depth, like pouring question. Like I put it on top like it came in. I was like, we gotta answer this. This can't, this isn't just something we've already answered.

[Sam]

That's been feeling it for a long time.

[Michael Martin]

So it's like, all right, we gotta talk about that one. It was, it was different and it was very much appreciated. I think I said that too. Like, I appreciate anybody who submits any kind of question because it does take a, a set of bravado to do it and especially though when it's like that level of, of frustration. So. And hopefully it helps. Hopefully it helps others. So if you've got comments, questions, topics, go to BNIP power of1.com, leave it there, let us know. We definitely want to talk about it, make this show more yours. And as always, Mike, good to see you. Talk to you soon. Next time, see.

[Sam]

Sam.