BNI 877: Business Matters 135 - What If I Don't Believe In Their Product?

Summary

Podcast Summary: BNI & The Power of One – Episode 877

Title: Business Matters 135 – What If I Don't Believe In Their Product?
Host: Tim Roberts
Guest: Michael Martin
Date: February 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode addresses a common and sensitive challenge in professional networking and referral groups: What should you do if you don’t personally believe in, or are uncomfortable with, another member’s product or service—especially if you’re expected to refer clients or contacts to them?
Tim Roberts and Michael Martin dig into perceptions of “controversial” products, the responsibilities of referrers, the role of trust and education, and practical steps for maintaining both your reputation and relationships in BNI and the broader networking world.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Referral Dilemma: Question Raised (03:55–04:39)

• Listener’s Question: What if a BNI chapter member offers products I don’t believe in (e.g., whole life insurance, reverse mortgages, timeshares)? How do I handle the pressure to refer those I’m uncomfortable with?
  • Products often come with stigma due to misunderstanding or misuse.
  • The question has two sides: the referrer’s comfort and the intentions/actions of the member being referred.

2. Dealing with Personal Biases (04:39–06:48)

• Michael points out the role of personal biases:
  • “You may have your own internal biases about things that may or may not apply to the person you’re thinking about referring.” (04:46)
  • Your dislike of a product doesn't mean it’s wrong for someone else.
• The importance of trying to inspire belief in products for authentic referrals.

3. Understanding the Product vs. the Provider (06:48–08:31)

• Tim highlights two main reasons behind negative perceptions:
  1. Misunderstanding the product.
  2. Inappropriate sales tactics, often motivated by commission rather than client needs.
• “It comes down to: is this person referable?... Do I believe that this person will only use this product in the right circumstances?” (07:52)
  • Sometimes, the product isn’t the issue—it’s how it’s sold.

4. Referral Responsibility: Risking Reputation (09:01–12:22)

• Michael: Referrals are high-risk because your reputation is on the line.
  • “A referral is me putting my reputation on the line for you. And that’s high risk.” (11:05)
• Salespeople, especially in emotional or financial products, must work harder to prove they’ll do right by the client.
• Negative referral experiences quickly sour future recommendations and relationships.

5. Practical Steps for the Concerned Referrer (12:27–14:05)

• Tim’s actionable advice:
  • Schedule a one-to-one with the member.
  • Be honest about your concerns, and seek to understand their perspective.
  • “Let’s have a conversation around this and see if you get to a point where it is the product…or the person.” (12:27)
  • There’s no requirement to refer everyone in BNI—your comfort and reputation matter.

6. Open Communication & Education (13:15–15:10)

• Michael: Be ready to explain your concerns, and base them on personal knowledge rather than hearsay.
  • “Anytime you have a question about something...Go to the source, ask, and then make up your mind.” (13:59)
• The BNI vetting process and open communication should reduce the prevalence of “bad actors” or outsiders pushing inappropriate products.

7. Avoiding Product Pitches in Networking (15:33–16:58)

• Tim argues that discussing specific products in BNI presentations is counterproductive:
  • “You should never talk about the product in BNI because there’s too many products to talk about…You are probably trying to sell the product to the room.” (15:33)
  • Focus on describing the ideal client for referrals, not product details.

8. Chapter Culture: Addressing the Issue Together (16:58–18:53)

• Chapter leadership should identify and correct members who are “pushing” products inappropriately.
• Utilize mentors and education coordinators to coach better networking behavior.
• Members need to have open feedback loops for constructive criticism.

9. Whole Life Insurance Example: A Nuanced Product (18:53–19:36)

• Tim: Many people’s skepticism toward products like whole life insurance stems from a lack of education or from observing it being used inappropriately.
  • “There are really legit circumstances where that is a perfect product…But the amount people try to sell it versus how many people that’s a perfect product for is out of whack.” (18:53)

10. The Bottom Line: Trust, Transparency, and Boundaries (20:11–24:00)

• Openness and willingness to learn can often resolve concerns—or at least lead to clarity about one’s discomfort.
• Ultimately, only refer when you trust the other member will act in the client’s best interest.
  • “Your job is to trust...that the individual will do that no matter what the product.” (22:22)
• If you’re uncomfortable after genuine efforts, you’re justified in not referring.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Internal Bias:
  “You may have your own internal biases about things that may or may not apply to the person you’re thinking about referring.” — Michael Martin (04:46)

• On the Referral’s Weight:
  “A referral is me putting my reputation on the line for you. And that’s high risk.” — Tim Roberts (11:05)

• On Sales Ethics:
  “If you take a referral and you do something not great...that gets back to the person who did the referral…What do you think is gonna happen? I’m never gonna send that person a referral again.” — Michael Martin (10:57)

• On Product Pitches:
  “You should never talk about the product in BNI...you are probably trying to sell the product to the room.” — Tim Roberts (15:33)

• On Open Communication:
  “Go to the source, ask, and then make up your mind whether you want to do it or not.” — Michael Martin (14:05)

• On Respect for Referrals:
  “Everyone has to acknowledge that every referral is innately personal. And you have to respect it.” — Michael Martin (21:19)

• On the Ultimate Goal:
  “The number one job you have when you get a referral...is make the person who passed you the referral look good.” — Tim Roberts (22:02)

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Important Timestamps

• Referrer’s Dilemma Introduced: 03:55–04:39
• Bias v. Reality in Product Assessment: 04:46–06:48
• Product Misuse vs. Provider Responsibility: 07:24–08:31
• Reputation Risk in Referrals: 09:01–11:17
• Actionable Advice—One-to-One Conversation: 12:27–14:05
• Product Pitches in Networking?: 15:33–16:58
• Whole Life Insurance Example: 18:53–19:36
• Key Takeaways and Summary: 20:11–24:00

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Summary & Takeaways

• Start with Self-Reflection: Are your concerns about the product actually about the specific person selling it, or based on hearsay or misunderstanding?
• Prioritize Honest Communication: Schedule a one-to-one; explain your doubts; seek real education about the product and the fellow member’s approach.
• Guard Your Reputation: Only give referrals you feel confident about—there is no BNI rule that you must refer everyone.
• If You Sell Controversial Products: Focus on demonstrating client-centered ethics and avoid pitching products in presentations.
• For Chapters/Leadership: Be proactive in guiding and educating members about best practices, and foster a culture of open feedback.
• Remember: Every referral is a personal risk; trust and credibility are at the heart of effective networking.

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome back to business matters. Part of bni Power of One with me live in person. Not on Zoom.

[B]

Not on Zoom.

[A]

Michael Martin. How are you?

[B]

I'm doing great. It's been a bit.

[A]

Yeah. Been a minute, but we got a new mic. So you sound good.

[B]

I sound better.

[A]

Yeah, it'll be much better.

[B]

It's the power, the power of computer technology.

[A]

We're getting more professional with is cold. I guess we can do our weather updates as we do.

[B]

It's frigid. It's 12 below zero. When I. And I know, I know the people out in the Midwest are like, oh, that's a warm day for us. But you know.

[A]

Yeah. For all my friends in Florida. Yeah, not so much.

[B]

Not so much. Yeah, not so much.

[A]

Yeah. No, it's brutal. I'm. I can't. We're still in January. I hate this month so much. Just because of how long it takes to get through.

[B]

Yeah, I know, I know.

[A]

Like still in January. We still have.

[B]

And the days are getting longer, but the days are also getting colder, which is kind of crazy. So bad planetary dynamics. Yep.

[A]

And we're in that ten year cycle of two foot storms coming.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We just got out of one. And I know it's been a bit. I mean, I don't think we've recorded for over a month since before, before the Christmas holidays.

[A]

Is that. That's true?

[B]

I think so. And I know because I. You had a little bit of travel and I was sick as a dog for about three weeks.

[A]

Oh, that's the worst. So, yeah, it was back in early December.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's been a minute in. Yeah. And then we had like all that stuff that went through obviously since then. We talked about at that time that we had taken over northwest Florida. We've now added three other franchises to the organization. So we've got Polk County, Florida, which is really being operated as part of central Florida now. And then Essex and Middlesex County, Massachusetts, up by us here in this.

[B]

A lot of expansion of opportunities for businesses in the area. So congratulations on that.

[A]

Yeah, we're excited.

[B]

Yeah, it's definitely exciting.

[A]

It's a, it's a whirlwind. We're hiring like crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's, you know, we can always talk about that process too. And, and we did hire somebody, even an admin that lasted two weeks or back in that process.

[B]

I know we were talking about a couple, you know, this hiring thing and how important it is to your business to get your hires right.

[A]

Yep. But even when you do your best to do that. Yeah.

[B]

You never really know. So you're just trying to mitigate any potential downside.

[A]

Yep. Yep. Luckily this one only lasted two weeks, so.

[B]

Right.

[A]

There's a waste of time. It wasn't a month or two months.

[B]

Right, right, right. Yeah. If they're gonna fall out during the training period, that's the best time to fall out. So.

[A]

All right. So as always. And so we are looking for topics, looking for questions, business related, whatever. Go to bnipowerofone.com we're going to go one that's BNI related but I think really ties into outside of being like most B and I topics. Do you can tie and talk about general business stuff off?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

It's asked to be kept anonymous, which I always tell you if you're worried about being outed or just whatever, do that. We're perfectly fine with that. Although they did put in the comments. Can you buy our region next? Which is very nice.

[B]

We won't say the region.

[A]

No. Nope. But we've gotten a couple of those too, which is awesome. And if we could, we would. So it says. Hi Tim, Love the Love your podcast. I binged eight hours on a long drive recently and so they're real CEUs and I know you'll be proud, which we are. That's a lot. My wife wouldn't listen to me for eight hours.

[B]

Eight hours.

[A]

Never mind. So here's the question. How do I handle chapter members? And this is a question. We'll talk about both sides. Sure, there's a B and I thing, but so NETworking in general, BNI, but also business because I want your sales take on it. How do I handle chapter members with controversial products? I do not believe. And this is the question. So this is not me saying this. I do not believe in whole life insurance, infinite banking, reverse mortgages, variable annuities, time shares, etc. How do I deal with chapter members who want me to refer on these products that I do not believe are in the best interest of the target client? They often offer other products that are okay, but they push these controversial ones during presentations and one to ones.

[B]

Yeah, I think there's a few things to unpack here. Now that I've heard the entire question.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And I think the first thing to unpack is you may have as a referrer, you may have your own internal biases about things that may not apply may or may not apply to the person you're thinking about referring. So you may not believe in timeshares, but a person you might consider referring unless you have A very specific conversation about the viability of timeshares in their life. As one of the examples from that long list, you may get it wrong. They may be interested in timeshares, I don't really know. They may be interested in reverse mortgages based on their financial perspective. So I think that if you don't believe in, would be natural to say you're not going to refer to it. Right. I've always talked about, in my career about trying to inspire belief in your product. And if people believe in your product, they're going to refer it more, they're going to purchase it more, they're going to talk about it more in a positive light. But if you don't really have belief, you can't really sell a product. You certainly can't refer in good conscience to another person. There's a flip side to it, though. The person that has those products that you don't believe in might be able to address very specific financial needs or personal goal needs than you're able to do.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So you might think they. Because in this case he's saying, well, they sell other things that I actually do believe in.

[A]

Right. Well, one of them, obviously with the list of this, you'd be like somebody who's ever selling life insurance.

[B]

Yeah. You know, life insurance. And he believes in that. But, you know, I, I don't know what the motivation is or why they don't believe in all of those other things or why they think they're controversial. You know, So I think that's important for that person to kind of unpack to see if they're assessing the referral process in a fair way. That's.

[A]

Yeah. So my advice on that part, we'll start there from your. Because there's two sides to this piece. Both you as the member who has the issue or concern, and then there's the member who's networking with you, which I have concerns on. So number one is some of these things are only controversial in perception because of two parts. One, misunderstanding of the product itself. Correct. So I would definitely challenge you to be like, hey, maybe you need to sit down with this member and really learn or get their perspective on why these products are valuable or important because you might have some very misunderstanding guided misconceptions about them.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And number two is those a lot of those products that you've listed are also sold inappropriately, which leads to. That I don't believe. And so, like people will push whole life insurance is a great product, but not for everybody.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Right. It's Like a. It's a select group of people. So if somebody's pushing whole life insurance because it's the biggest commission product they have now, it's not really even a question. Right. It's not even a question of is the product referable. It comes down to, is this person referable?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because, like, do I believe that this person will only use this product in the right circumstances, or are they actively trying to sell that product to everybody because of the commission structure? And so I speak from that, from experience. When I was with Northwestern, there were reps, especially newer reps, who were pushing whole life in inappropriate situations because it was the biggest commission product.

[B]

Right, right, right, right.

[A]

And so then that's like, well, maybe it's not the product that you have an issue with, it's how that product has been sold, either to you or you perceive that product is going to be sold in the situations like it's going to be pushed on everybody. That's more of a referral ability to the person.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I think the dynamic that's also at play is if I. So in the real world, you were an insurance person. So I'm going to say in my little scenario here, you're the person that I'm thinking about giving a referral to. I have a friend, a family member, you know, somebody close to me that I. That I think might benefit from some of the things you have, but. But not others. And I'm in this quandary because I have a personal relationship with this person.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You don't yet.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So the thing is, okay, well, what if I refer him? And what if it goes wrong? What if, you know, is my friendship going to be, you know, at stake? Is my family relationship going to be at stake? Because believe me, when it comes to money, those things are real.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I think that if you're the person selling the product, you have to understand that that's where the headspace is of people that are going to give you referrals. And I don't really care what the product is, actually.

[A]

No, I don't.

[B]

It doesn't really matter. So if I'm on the other side, I would say, okay, I know they feel this way, so I have to do what's right by the client. Correct. So I have to work hard. The hardest part of my pitch to this, in this case the BNI Networking group, is how hard I'm gonna work to make sure that the client gets what's best for them. And I'm gonna demonstrate that through actually putting the client in the best product for them.

[A]

Right. Not for me and not for you, based on your mistakes.

[B]

And unfortunately, because it's in kind of the financial side of things and money's a lot tougher than, say, selling cars.

[A]

That's far more emotional.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. It's emotional. So I have to demonstrate maybe over a longer period of time that I'm going to do right by people and it's just going to take more work. So you have to kind of know that going in. Because if you take a referral and you do something not great, and that person is either unhappy with the product that they, quote, unquote, got sold into, because that's the excuse that it's no longer buyer beware. It's always, well, it's your fault for selling it to me, and you push me into it and you force me. You know, all that kind of stuff that happens, that gets back to the person who did the referral in the first place.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And now they're sitting there going, what do you think is gonna happen? I'm never gonna send that person a referral again.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Because it ends badly. So I think.

[A]

Well, what you're talking about is. What we talk about, we mentioned is what is a referral? A referral is me putting my reputation on the line for you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's high risk.

[B]

High risk. It is. That's why it's so hard to do.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And why. When it works. Right. And people have the client's best interests in mind, ultimately it provides better results over time. Right. You know, and that's, I think, what a lot of people miss on the sales side. So if you're in. If you're a member that's selling financial instruments, which, again, have. I love the way you said it. There's a lot of emotion attached to it, then you have to be extra careful. You have to kind of step above and beyond. That's why you have to go through so much, you know, training, federal training, you know, things you can and can't say. You know, all that stuff is because, you know, those are tools to help you guide the person in the right way. And if you do that, you're going to overcome a lot of these kind of objections in people's heads about. Yeah, I don't know about that product.

[A]

Well, you're battling. You're battling the shady people. Right. Who give that product a bad reputation, whatever that is, the timeshare, the whole life insurance, any of these things. There's. There's just, unfortunately, too many Shady people that do the wrong thing that leads people to believe it. So, all right, let's just take. What would you do if you're the, if you're the member submitting this question.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you're like, I don't believe in these products. How do I handle it? I would tell you the first thing I would do is schedule a one to one with them. Now he says they push these controversial ones during presentations and one to one. So that's a separate issue. Like if they're doing that in a one to one, I'm going to get to the other member side of it. But do a one to one and be brutally honest and say, listen, I have these significant concerns on this product that you offer that you have talked a lot about. Here's why I have concerns. Let's have a conversation around this and see if you get to a point where it is the product. Maybe it was a lack of knowledge of the product. Is it. You'll get a sense of it's the person, are they pushing this product? And you're going to be like, I just don't feel comfortable. And then you just don't refer. Like at the end of the day, there's no policy in BNI that says you have to refer everybody in the chapter.

[B]

Right, Right.

[A]

And for a reason. And this would be one of them. Yeah. So but if you do a true one to one and you're. And you're humble and honest enough to say, listen, I'm uncomfortable with these talk about it, you'll leave with either clarity on why you're uncomfortable and maybe there's an opportunity to solve that, or clarity on, no, I'm really still uncomfortable with this and I'm not moving forward and that's okay.

[B]

And I think, I think in that I think it's a great way to start and I mean just go and learn. But also be prepared to explain why you think they're controversial. You don't like them. Now, is it personal experience or is it because Johnny told you that his best friend Pete's brother Billy's cousin Bob.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, had a bad experience in 1978.

[A]

Right. Or you read some article online, you.

[B]

Know, that should never be your own foundation. Anytime you have a question about something, you know, I'm always like, be direct. Go to the source, ask.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then make up your mind whether you want to do it or not. I think that that is a great first step. I want to put this in before I, before I forget because I think it's also important for the people that are creating the chapters. This is like an important conversation to have with any prospective new member about how here's what BNI really stands for. So you can't come in and just push BS because you won't get referrals. Right. So you need to do a really clear job of explaining your product value. You have to treat people right because we're going to know if you don't and it's not gonna work for you. And bad news travels way faster than good news. Oh yeah. So, you know, I think through the vetting process, the other members should, I think, kind of feel a little better about who's in there. Now there's also kind of their whole perspective and bias here where saying they push it. Okay, well what's the definition of push here?

[A]

Right.

[B]

They mention it because it's just part of the, part of just how they think to explain the things they do. If they're up there for a minute and they're like, I got this, I get this, I get this, I get this, I can do this, I can do this. They're just trying to rattle off a bunch of stuff in a very short amount of time. If they're having one on ones, I mean, how many one on ones did they have with you already to be pushing it every time?

[A]

Well, I know members who have done that, so it could very well be happen. So this gets to the second part. Let's talk about from the members perspective, who's selling these things? Yeah, this question alone tells me that that member is messing up in a couple of ways. So number one, one of the things we train heavily on because of experiences, when it comes to life insurance in particular, you don't talk about the product. You should never talk about the product in BNI because there's too many products to talk about a lot. And if you're doing that, you're literally selling the product because you cannot ask a fellow member, short of, let's say an accountant or somebody really tied into somebody's finances, which is few and far between in your chapter to understand what is actually the ideal client for a whole life insurance product versus a term product and what term product and what annuity and what like if you're getting into that kind of conversation, you are probably trying to sell the product to the room. That's just the likelihood of experience. So you're already. Your strategy needs to change from the other side of this of like, I don't want to get into concerns around my product because the people who have the concerns aren't educated enough to even know why their concern is legit or not. And I need to keep it really focused just on end user. Who am I looking to get referred to so I can have the appropriate conversation and figure out the appropriate product.

[B]

And your chapter leadership should be spotting that immediately. Yeah. Or at least if you having an issue, you should feel comfortable enough to go to your chapter leadership who obviously vetted you in right. To say, hey, you know, I'm stuck here. I feel like they're trying to sell their product here in a way that's not really befitting to what we're supposed to be doing. And I'm a little confused. At least tip them off so they can go to have a mentor and say, hey, I don't know, do mentoring session or something like that.

[A]

Chapters have mentors, but they have education coordinators who can speak to you just.

[B]

Kind of shape it. Hey, we're here to help you shape your message too.

[A]

Right. Or again, so in our regions it would be like the leadership team can use the education coordinator and do a general topic of hey, let's not talk about product because it. It doesn't help any of us to hey, you should take training or hey, as a chapter we should take training on weekly presentations because we'll come in and talk about. Don't talk about the pro. Right. Like, so there's ways to get around it and to address it. That helps everybody. But it also comes down to as a chapter you should be because. Because of the design of these. Of one person per profession. You're our person. We should have open conversations. Say if I know something I think that's hurting you, would you want to know about it? They're going to say yes. Be like I think talking about.

[B]

And if they say no, then you have to decide if they're the right.

[A]

Right for the chapter because their renewal date.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

Like when are they coming? Yeah, well, which. But that is true. Right. And again, unfortunately, there's a lot of BNI chapters who fear having those internal conversations because we're peers and we're trying to. And I don't want to upset them because then they won't refer me. There's like the fear of loss stuff which hurts you way more than anything else. But yeah, I think in the same. Because when they say they're pushing it in presentations and one to ones to me that immediately is like, well, that person's messing up. Like that shouldn't be happening at all. Thinking on the whole life insurance. When they hit someone with me. Because I know, I'll tell you, like when I read that and he's like, I don't believe in whole life insurance. I was like, you're probably not fully educated on it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because there are really legit circumstances where that is a perfect product for somebody.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But the amount people try to sell it versus how many people that's a perfect product for is out of whack. And that's why it's got a bad reputation is people definitely try to sell it to people who don't need it. It's not the right fit. They try to oversell like the return and blah blah, blah, blah, blah.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So I felt I fell victim to that a long time ago. Yeah.

[A]

Although like when I was young I was like, I know people who. There's one friend of ours who's a friend of our fellow friend Nate who has used that product to finance a ton of things in their lives and like they're their own bank and it's worked really well. He's really independently wealthy. Like it's a great product for him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But when you're like new and upcoming, it's probably not the best product for you. Like strategically thinking. I used to hate even like how much they would trade on it. But so anyways, I think full circle. I think that there's a couple things. One is you got to be open to your own biases on it. Right. You got to ask yourself, like, why do I not believe in it and do a one to one to at least give a chance to get educated by an expert on what your concerns are to justify whether they're legit or not. And at the end again, they might, you might leave there going, nope, I definitely still don't believe in that product.

[B]

Or I even more don't believe.

[A]

Right, exactly. So and that. But give that the chance and have that honest conversation with your member about like I'm having a hard time referring you because I don't believe in these. And we need to address that and have that conversation and then hopefully good things come from that or you're going to be more so and don't. If again, if it's the other side. There is no policy that you got to refer everybody in the chapter.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Refer those you are. Because it is your reputation on the line and especially on certain products. It's even more hyper vigilant. On the flip side, if you're a member and you're pushing your product and you're worried that other members in your chapter might be feeling the way this one doesn't in theirs. You got to readdress your approach because it should not be going that way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Um, because. Yeah.

[B]

You're.

[A]

If you're talking about whole life and you're. You're selling it.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I'll, I'll say this. Everybody that gets involved in networking of any kind, and I think BNI in particular, and I'm going to tie it back to your podcast from the other day, is that everyone has to acknowledge that every referral is innately personal.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And you have to respect it.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

On both sides of the equation, you have to respect it. So what does that mean? It means, and I know you're going to talk about more core values, but in your podcast yesterday, you were talking about givers gain and why that's so important and how it's kind of the foundational part of this whole thing. So you have to take it from a giving mindset, even though you're getting a referral.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You have to take it, you have to receive it from a giving mindset.

[A]

Yep. I like that.

[B]

And that means taking care of that person, that referral, as if it were the other person.

[A]

Yeah. We talk about the number one job you have when you get a referral. The number one focus is make the person who passed you the referral look good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That is the mindset. Yeah. You gotta make them look good. And because again, it comes down to, if you really think about it, is this person just risked their reputation on me and I need to guard that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if you go into that mindset, then you'll do. You hopefully you'll do what's right. Does that mean every member in BNI does it? No, because this is humans and there's what it is. But that should be the mindset of it. And in order to refer people, you need to trust the. That the individual will do that no matter what the product like. Again, you might have biases on the product, but if you're like, well, they offer some things I like, but I don't like this. Your job is to trust, not job, but your goal is, do I trust that this person's going to go and just have the right conversation and offer the right product? And not because it sounds to me almost more like I'm concerned if I refer this person, they're only going to go in and talk about this thing.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And that's a different thing.

[B]

And that's a different thing. But I think that goes to your point of having that conversation. Because, you know, the other, the other part of this is that if you, this person who you think right now might not be a good referral partner because of what they're doing or what your perception of they're doing is, you might be closing the door on somebody who's a great referral partner for you.

[A]

Right? Yep.

[B]

So if you don't have that kind of quid pro quo, at least have the conversation for a better understanding. You're never gonna be able to quantify what you might be walking away from and the benefit to you. So have the conversation.

[A]

I'm going to add this one less thing. What you can't do is go to this person, do a one to one and say, listen, I'm going to refer you, but you're not allowed to ever talk. You can't do that again. Now you're stepping in. You don't know what's right for that person and everything else. You know what I mean? So yeah, yeah. You have to go in and say, do I trust that this person's going to do what's right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if you don't, then that tells you what you need to know. And I would leave it with that, but it would start with a more focused onetoone with that open, honest conversation.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

All right, my man, good to see you.

[B]

Likewise.

[A]

We'll be back. And as always, if you got questions, topics business related, what have you been I power of1.com. We will definitely get to it. Have a great day.