Hot Takes About Climate Journalism

Summary

Boiling Point Podcast: Hot Takes About Climate Journalism

Episode Release Date: May 22, 2025
Host: Sammy Roth, Climate Columnist, Los Angeles Times
Guest: Sadie Babbitts, Supervising Climate Editor at NPR and Author of Hot Takes: Every Journalist's Guide to Covering Climate Change*

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Introduction to Climate Journalism

In this episode of Boiling Point, host Sammy Roth delves into the evolving landscape of climate journalism with Sadie Babbitts, an esteemed climate editor at NPR and the author of Hot Takes: Every Journalist's Guide to Covering Climate Change. The conversation sets the stage by highlighting the critical role journalists play in addressing one of the most pressing issues of the 21st century—climate change.

Notable Quote:
“I believe every reporter is now, to some degree, a climate reporter.”
— Sammy Roth [00:07]

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The Genesis of Hot Takes

Motivation to Write the Book

Sadie Babbitts discusses the inspiration behind her book, emphasizing the need to equip journalists with the tools to effectively cover climate change across various reporting domains.

Notable Quote:
“It's essentially a guidebook, a primer of all the things that you need to know on an immensely huge topic, climate change, to help journalists... to be comfortable with the science, to avoid some of the pitfalls and also have some hope in the process.”
— Sadie Babbitts [05:08]

Broad Audience Focus

Babbitts explains why her book isn't limited to environmental reporters but is a resource for all journalists, regardless of their beat.

Notable Quote:
“If you are a sports reporter, heat is going to be a really big concern. If you're covering football... that is climate change.”
— Sadie Babbitts [06:35]

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Evolution of Climate Journalism

From Denialism to Robust Reporting

The discussion moves to how climate journalism has transformed over the years. Babbitts recounts the early 2000s when climate change was a polarizing topic, often presented as a debate between two sides, thereby fueling denialism.

Notable Quote:
“It's been this sort of tension within climate journalism of, you know, do we see ourselves as active players in trying to solve climate change?”
— Sammy Roth [22:11]

Positive Changes Observed

Babbitts points out significant improvements in recent years, such as the reduction of climate denialism in reporting and a shift towards more human-centered stories.

Notable Quote:
“Stories are a lot more human-centered because climate change impacts all species, including our own. That's been really refreshing to see.”
— Sadie Babbitts [09:25]

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Combating Misinformation and Disinformation

Shifts in Misinformation Tactics

The conversation highlights how misinformation around climate change has evolved from outright denialism to more sophisticated forms, such as attributing extreme weather events to renewable energy sources inaccurately.

Notable Quote:
“There was a lot of misinformation and disinformation being brought about with the governor and blaming what happened on renewables, that solar and wind failed. And that didn't happen at all...”
— Sadie Babbitts [11:23]

Strategies for Journalists

Babbitts offers advice on when and how journalists should tackle misinformation without inadvertently amplifying false narratives.

Notable Quote:
“If it's out there and everyone is spreading it, media outlets...need to be responsible and take the time to debunk.”
— Sadie Babbitts [16:15]

Defining Misinformation vs. Disinformation

Clarifying the difference, Babbitts defines misinformation as unintentional spread of false information, whereas disinformation is deliberate and often tied to agendas like greenwashing.

Notable Quote:
“Misinformation... is unintentional... Disinformation is intentional. This is greenwashing. This is putting a narrative out there and trying to spin it.”
— Sadie Babbitts [14:08]

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Objectivity vs. Advocacy in Climate Reporting

Evolving Views on Objectivity

The episode delves into the nuanced debate of maintaining journalistic objectivity while advocating for solutions to climate change. Babbitts shares her journey from traditional impartial reporting to a more engaged form of journalism that acknowledges the urgency of the climate crisis.

Notable Quote:
“We are all very curious... we're all very curious about, maybe not all, I think at the end of the day, we're pretty curious.”
— Sammy Roth [27:55]

Balancing Fairness and Advocacy

Babbitts emphasizes that acknowledging the reality of climate change doesn't equate to losing objectivity. Instead, it's about presenting factual information and encouraging proactive solutions.

Notable Quote:
“I do think that it's okay to acknowledge that climate change is here. I mean, the science is there.”
— Sadie Babbitts [24:45]

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NPR's Role in Climate Coverage

Commitment to Robust Reporting

As the climate editor at NPR, Babbitts outlines how her team remains dedicated to in-depth and objective climate reporting, despite external challenges like political pressures and the intimidation of scientists.

Notable Quote:
“Climate journalists have a really important role in getting trusted information to people, and we take that very seriously on the climate desk.”
— Sadie Babbitts [28:44]

Collaborative Efforts Across Stations

She highlights NPR's collaborative approach, working with affiliate stations nationwide to cover diverse climate impacts and solutions, thereby enriching the overall narrative.

Notable Quote:
“We lead a group of climate reporters from all around the country who work at NPR affiliate stations...we have these weekly calls and we talk through story ideas.”
— Sadie Babbitts [30:16]

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Engaging the Audience and Encouraging Action

Audience-Driven Reporting

Babbitts shares insights on how NPR tailors its climate coverage based on audience interactions, emphasizing topics that resonate most, such as climate solutions and the intersectionality with health and indigenous communities.

Notable Quote:
“People are interested in what they can do... climate solutions stories resonate with our audiences.”
— Sadie Babbitts [31:38]

Empowering Listeners to Influence Media

Addressing listeners who want more climate coverage, Babbitts advises proactive engagement with local journalists, encouraging them to suggest story ideas and express their interests.

Notable Quote:
“I really encourage people to email their local station...have a story there that you end up hearing, seeing, reading, and connecting with people.”
— Sadie Babbitts [35:23]

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Conclusion and Promotion

The episode wraps up with Babbitts promoting her upcoming book, Hot Takes: Every Journalist's Guide to Covering Climate Change, slated for release on June 2, 2025. She emphasizes the importance of structured, solution-oriented climate reporting in shaping a sustainable future.

Notable Quote:
“How we shape our climate reporting and our stories, it really matters.”
— Sadie Babbitts [34:44]

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Boiling Point offers a comprehensive exploration of the current state and future of climate journalism. Sadie Babbitts provides valuable insights into overcoming misinformation, balancing objectivity with advocacy, and engaging audiences to foster a more informed and proactive public. Her forthcoming book serves as a crucial resource for journalists aiming to enhance their climate reporting skills in an increasingly urgent global context.

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For more insights and updates, listen to the full episode of Boiling Point on your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Podcast Host]

This is an LA Times Studios podcast.

[Sami Roth]

My name is Sami Roth, and I'm the climate columnist for the Los Angeles Times. This is Boiling Point. I've been a professional journalist for 11 years, and this whole time I've only ever written about climate, energy, and the environment. For most journalists, it's the opposite. There are a lot of folks who go 10, 20, even 30 years in this business without writing more than a couple of sentences here or there about the climate crisis, which is pretty crazy considering it's arguably the biggest story of the 21st century. When global warming causes more extreme weather events that affect refugee flows, that's an immigration story. When more intense heat waves reduce labor productivity and make competition unsafe athletes, that's an economic story and a sports story. When oil companies lobby state legislatures even as wildfires get bigger and more destructive, that's a politics story. Journalists do a ton of incredible work, and I hope Americans have realized, especially over the last few months, just how important our work is for a functioning democracy. But the truth is that journalists, like everyone else, are not perfect. We have blind spots, and for a long time, climate change has been one of our collective blind spots. There are a lot of reasons for that, and I'm going to get into them this week with Sadie Babbitts. She's the Supervising climate Editor at NPR and a former professor of practice and sustainability Director at Arizona State University's Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication. Sadie is also the author of a great new book, Hot Every Journalist's Guide to Covering Climate Change. As Sadie writes in the book, and I quote, climate change is now an essential element in many of the stories journalists must report. I believe every reporter is now, to some degree, a climate reporter. Close quote. I would say something similar is true for news consumers. If you read articles or scroll social media or watch videos, you're consuming news about climate change all the time, even if you don't realize it. And that's why I wanted to have Sadie on this podcast. Her book is full of advice that's relevant not just for journalists, but for anyone who cares about climate and how journalists cover it. Hot TakesWhich is a great title, by the way, is a seriously fascinating read. And I'm not just saying that because Sadie asked me to write the foreword. I sat down with Sadie last month in Tempe, Arizona, where we were both attending the annual conference of the Society of Environmental Journalists. Here's our conversation.

[Mary Knoff]

Hi, my name is Mary Knoff, and I'm a producer on Boiling Point. We are here with Joanne o' Neill, Director of Customer Programs at Clean Power Alliance. Hi Joanne.

[Podcast Host]

Hello.

[Mary Knoff]

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[Sami Roth]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

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[Mary Knoff]

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[Podcast Host]

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[Mary Knoff]

Well, thank you so much for speaking with us, Joanne.

[Podcast Host]

Thank you. Appreciate it.

[Mary Knoff]

Take the next step in building a more resilient and clean energy future for Southern California. To learn more, please visit CleanPowerAlliance.org PowerResponse Again, that's CleanPowerAlliance.org Powerresponse.

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[Sami Roth]

Sadie, thank you very much for being with us on the Boiling Point podcast.

[Sadie Babbitts]

It's a great pleasure to be here.

[Sami Roth]

So you've been in climate journalism for a long time. I'm curious, what was it that drove you to write this book? To write hot takes? What made you sit down and say, okay, I need to write this now?

[Sadie Babbitts]

So I was a professor for about five years and my Students kept asking me all these questions about climate change and. And I finally was like, I think there's something here. And it actually was an editor who approached me about writing a book, and I had pitched her a bunch of ideas and she was like, no, none of those. But would you be interested in writing about climate change and your experience covering it and advice for journalists? And I thought about that for a while and realized that I had something to say and I wanted to help my students. And when I was writing this book, I actually had my students, former students, at this point in mind as I put this book together. So it's essentially this guidebook, a primer of all the things that you need to know on an immensely huge topic, climate change, to help journalists, no matter where they are in their career, no matter what area they're covering, to be comfortable with the science, to avoid some of the pitfalls and also have some hope in the process.

[Sami Roth]

I think that was one of the things I like most about this book, actually, was that it's not just written for environmental reporters who want to do better climate change coverage. I mean, we're here on the sidelines of the Society of Environmental Journalists conference, this great event that you and I have both been to many a time. But, you know, you didn't just write this book for us. You wrote it for all journalists who want to cover climate, who should be covering climate. Why did you make that choice to write this for everybody?

[Sadie Babbitts]

I had this moment, Sami, where it was this realization that climate is in every aspect of our lives. As journalists, there are so many opportunities to help our audiences understand the impacts of climate change and really connect what I like to call the climate dots. It isn't just a climate desk in a newsroom and a very specific team of people tasked with covering the. The effects of climate change and how we adapt to it and resiliency and all of that. It's really in every aspect of the work that we do. So if you are a sports reporter, heat is going to be a really big concern. If you're covering football, for instance, understanding the basics of climate science can really help your audience, whether that's television or radio or newspaper or digital. Right. Understand what's going on and why players might find their schedules shifting because they can't practice when it in their. In their normal times. And that's climate change. And it's a culture story, it's an economic story, it's a policy story, it's a climate story. And it's literally in everything. In everything. And so I've had multiple conversations with people who are just scared, quite frankly, of, like, it seems so massive. Like, how do you. How do you wrap your head around climate change and bring that into a story? And, and this book ultimately is, I hope, the answer or part of the answer to that, to give people advice of, like, here's how simple actually it is to make those climate connections a lot clearer in your stories, regardless of whether you're, like, covering sports or you're covering culture or you really are on a climate. Whether you're really on a climate desk.

[Sami Roth]

For instance, on a positive note, one of the first chapters in your book, you talk about the things that you've seen change in climate reporting over your years in journalism. The things you've seen change for the better. Talk about what you've seen change. How has climate journalism evolved? What has improved from when you first started doing this work?

[Sadie Babbitts]

You know, such an interesting question, Sami, because I started reporting on climate change at a time where climate change was just sort of coming into the zeitgeist. And it was during the days, so this is like early 2000s, where climate change was really sort of this political hot potato. And I was trying to understand why that was. And I don't think at the time I fully realized what was happening. And looking back at some of my own work and work of others, I was like, oh, this is a moment and an evolution that has happened.

[Sami Roth]

What time period are we talking about?

[Sadie Babbitts]

So we're talking like late 1990s, early 2000s.

[Sami Roth]

Okay. Back when there was still a lot of climate denialism going on, there was.

[Sadie Babbitts]

A lot of climate denialism. And the approach in media was really, to both sides, climate change. And editors. I remember editors saying this to me of like, well, okay, so you've got the climate scientist here saying, you know, climate change is real and it's happening, but there are a lot of people who are skeptical about climate change. And to be clear, like, that is not the case. The majority of scientists agree that climate change is. Is happening and it is real. But in those, those earlier days of climate change reporting, this debate got crafted and, and added to climate change being this really political issue and really fueling climate denialism. And I'm happy to say that looking at coverage today and over like, the last several years, it has gotten so. It has become so robust. You don't see climate denialists referenced or climate skeptics referenced in stories. It's really multiple perspectives. It's a lot more nuanced. I think stories are a lot More human centered because climate change impacts all species, including our own. That's been really refreshing to see. I think the future evolution is looking at solutions to climate change and actually helping people understand the agency that's out there to climate change, that it isn't all doom and gloom.

[Sami Roth]

All that said, you do devote a whole chapter in your book to debunking misinformation and disinformation to help journalists sort through that stuff. And again, I think this is really valuable to consumers of information as well, not just the journalists who are sorting through it as reporters. How has the disinformation and misinformation shifted? It's for the most part not outright denialism anymore. What does it look like today if it's not Climate change isn't real.

[Sadie Babbitts]

I think we see it's still rampant, but it has definitely shifted. Sam, and you know this so well in your own reporting, it's focused on renewable energy and sort of like, you know, I think of, you know, in Texas, we had that big winter freeze and so many people lost electricity.

[Sami Roth]

This is what, 2021, right?

[Sadie Babbitts]

2021, right. And you know, people were in their homes, they didn't have electricity, things were really tough. And trying to get the Texas grid back up and operating. There was a lot of misinformation and disinformation being brought about with the governor and blaming what happened on renewables, that solar and wind failed. And that didn't happen at all, actually. It was natural gas powered plants that weren't working properly because it was so cold. And so that's where we're seeing so much misinformation. And you see these fights happening over solar and offshore wind and wind on land as well.

[Sami Roth]

Offshore wind is being blamed for whale deaths in the Northeast. Not even offshore wind. Studies about where to put offshore wind or how to sight offshore wind.

[Sadie Babbitts]

Exactly. And that's all misinformation. And so there have been moments where I've thought this is a little like playing whack a mole as a journalist trying to truth squad all of this out there. And you can't do that because there is so much in this space. But there are ways that journalists can help people understand what is truth and what is fiction.

[Sami Roth]

Yeah, that was one of the parts of your book I found most interesting, the question of where. Well, even before, how do you do the debunking? The question of even when do you bother to spend time debunking something versus just ignoring it? What, what's your advice on that question? Like when, as A journalist or as someone who's sorting through information, because it's journalists who are doing this. It's also just like, I hesitate to even use the term. It's influencers. It's people with platforms on the Internet. For better or worse. Sometimes for better. I mean, let's be fair. But when is it worth taking the time to look at a piece of misinformation or disinformation and say, okay, like, I'm gonna, you know, dig into this and tell people what's real and what's not real versus just ignoring it because you're afraid of amplifying it even further?

[Sadie Babbitts]

I think that's the challenge. Right. And the worry of amplifying the myth. And I think it's a really tough question, and I don't have all the answers. I talked to a lot of really incredible researchers on misinformation and disinformation.

[Sami Roth]

And by the way, I should interrupt. Define misinformation versus dis. Cause.

[Sadie Babbitts]

Oh, that's a. That's great. Yes.

[Sami Roth]

And this is in your book.

[Sadie Babbitts]

But, yeah, let's get clear on that. I think of misinformation of if my mom were on social media and she saw something and she was like, oh, that really is really interesting. And she would share it around, right? And my mom's not on social media, so she wouldn't do that. But it's sort of like it's unintentional. I think that's the point. You see something, maybe it stacks up with your worldview, and you're like, oh, that's really interesting. Right? So let's say it's about offshore wind and wind and that offshore wind is contributing to whale dust. That is not the case. You might see that and see it on a Facebook page and then spread it to your followers, and then they spread it to their followers, and it sort of, like, creates this sort of, like, echo chamber. And that's really. I mean, it's kind of innocent in that sense of sort of like, oh, I'm just going to share this. What I think is information out disinformation is intentional. This is greenwashing. This is putting a narrative out there and trying to spin it. This is what. This is what we know from really great reporting on oil companies such as Exxon that, you know, the Exxon new project, which. Which really exposed the fact that early days, you know, these oil companies knew about climate change research, and they had a. I had a moment to decide of, like, oh, we could do something with this research. And they decided to downplay it and ultimately push the blame onto consumers.

[Sami Roth]

Right, gotcha. So maybe the modern day equivalent of that is these sort of faux grassroots groups with ties to fossil fuel industry money running around local communities spreading lies about renewable energy and solar farms are going to give you cancer or something like that, which they're not by the way.

[Sadie Babbitts]

Exactly.

[Sami Roth]

Okay.

[Sadie Babbitts]

Yes, exactly.

[Sami Roth]

So talk about your thought process then. About to go back to the question that I asked five minutes ago before interrupting myself about advice to journalists and people, people sorting through the news about when do you take the time to debunk versus ignoring because you don't want to amplify the bad information.

[Sadie Babbitts]

I think when there's harm involved that it rises to a level of taking it on and debunking. That's one way around it. And we can talk about certain ways of going about that. Right. If it's out there and everyone is spreading media outlets or covering like I think journalists have, you know, need to, need to be responsible and take the time to debunk. And it takes time. Right. It's a fact check. And you can do that in ways that don't spread the lie or the myth. Right. Starting with the headline of a story and getting the truth in the headline right away so you're not repeating whatever that mis or disinformation is.

[Sami Roth]

So don't do a headline that says do solar farms give you cancer? Question mark. We investigate.

[Sadie Babbitts]

Exactly. Exactly. Right. You'd reframe that to be like solar farms don't give us cancer. Right. And you could just go into the story. I think what's really powerful is we know when people are going to start having questions or around big events around the election. For instance, you can get ahead of disinformation by sort of pre bunking and imagining what your audience wants to have answered and getting ahead of what stories might emerge. So offshore wind I think is a really good example of that. You know, we saw this in the last election. These, the, you know, the idea of the offshore wind is causing harm to whales and the research isn't there. And you know, we've done stories about that not being the case and getting ahead of that.

[Sami Roth]

We'll be back after a quick break.

[Mary Knoff]

Hi, my name is Mary Knoff and I'm a producer on Boiling Point. We are here with Joanne o' Neill, director of customer programs at Clean Power Alliance. Hi Joanne.

[Podcast Host]

Hello.

[Mary Knoff]

Clean Power alliance offers many customer programs to save on electricity bills and conserve energy. What is power response? How can listeners participate and are there any incentives for Signing up.

[Sami Roth]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

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[Mary Knoff]

Well, thank you so much, Joanne.

[Podcast Host]

Thank you. Appreciate it.

[Mary Knoff]

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[Sami Roth]

A couple other chapters of your book that I want to ask about that were just so interesting to me, and this one I'll bring up not just because you quoted me in this chapter, but I did enjoy it, that the discussion of objectivity in climate reporting I found really, really interesting. And I'm just going to quote from the book here. You write, Let me find the quote here. You talked about just student journalists who are talking about your conversations with them about sort of, what is the line between journalism and advocacy when writing about climate change? And you write, we had philosophical debates over the answers to that question. Where does the line between journalism and advocacy get drawn? There isn't an easy answer. I refused to declare a political party for years out of fear that someone would call that into question. Was that too far? Probably. However, my views of objectivity have evolved. Anyway, it's an interesting question because my own thinking about this with climate journalism has been that in other areas of journalism, like if you're writing about homelessness, for instance, it's one that always comes to mind. For me, I don't think that anyone who writes about homelessness would think that it's advocacy to say, well, I'm writing about homelessness because I want to help solve homelessness. No one wants to see people living on the streets. Everyone wants to get them housed. That kind of goes without question. Same thing with, like, you know, poverty, for instance. We're all writing, you know, anyone who's writing about poverty wants to help people get out of poverty. That's kind of unquestionable with climate. It's become, and I think this is less and less the case, but it's been this sort of tension within climate journalism of, you know, do we see ourselves as active players in trying to solve climate change? And is that acceptable? As a journalist, my answer has always been, yeah, that's of course why I'm doing this job. Like, why? Why is that even up for debate. I absolutely want to be part of the solution. Whether you say, solve climate change or slow climate change. And that's more of a linguistic, like, you know, can we really solve it? No, it's already happening. But I guess I'm curious how your thinking has evolved in that question, knowing that you come from a more traditional journalistic background and upbringing. You know, where do you see that line today falling between traditional notions of journalism and traditional notions of advocacy? What is your thinking right now, and what sort of advice do you give to your students today and the journalists you mentor about where to stop before journalism becomes advocacy?

[Sadie Babbitts]

It's a great discussion topic. I did grow up in a very traditional journalism background, and I took sort of the gold standard of objectivity, of sort of removing self, trying to be as fair and balanced as possible in my environmental stories and covering climate change. And it was hard because, you know, I grew up in the West. I have a deep love for.

[Sami Roth]

Remind me where you grew up.

[Sadie Babbitts]

I grew up in Salmon, Idaho.

[Sami Roth]

Oh, wow. Beautiful.

[Sadie Babbitts]

It's a beautiful country surrounded by mountains. The Frank Church river of no Return wilderness. And I grew up outside. And I, you know, I have always loved the outdoors and the natural world, and I fundamentally care about the future of the planet. And I think in my early days, I would try to sort of just be open and listen to the people that I was interviewing and take in their stories and then from all different sides and then craft my audio stories primarily in what I hoped was a really fair, responsible way that left it up to the listener. My background is largely in public radio. Left it to the listener to decide for themselves what their take is on the story. And I think that very classic take on journalism doesn't work today. And it also just doesn't acknowledge journalists as human beings. We are. We care about what we're doing. Both of us. We're sitting here, we both care about the environment and what happens. And it's a big reason for why we do what we do. It's why I do what I do. And I still maintain that you have to be fair. And I think that fairness comes in continuing to listen and bring really good and truthful stories to the air and to digital and. But I do think that it's okay to acknowledge that climate change is here. I mean, the science is there. This is all rooted in fact. And I guess in that way, that principle of factual based reporting, that's not changing at all. I feel like my whole evolution has shifted. I will say to come back to the other part of your question about where is the line of advocacy? I think there are really interesting debates, Sammy, about how different newsrooms take this on. The Guardian came out several years ago and said we're going to use the.

[Sami Roth]

Language climate crisis, I think climate emergency even.

[Sadie Babbitts]

Right, Climate emergency. And that in some of the newsrooms that I've been in, that is seen as advocacy. Is that our role to say that? But the science says that. So there's just these interesting tensions I find and I tried to grapple with in my book.

[Sami Roth]

Yeah, no, I totally agree with you on the point about fairness. I think that as long as you're still doing your journalistic due diligence and hearing out all sides and giving people all of the truthful, factual, legitimate information, I mean, you don't want to be repeating lies or misinformation if someone is not coming at you with facts or from a good faith position. It's not your job to just repeat bullshit. Exactly. But as long as you're being rigorous about it, you've just got to follow where the story leads. And if the story leads to climate change as an existential threat and it's an emergency, and it's imperative that if we want to lead healthy, safe lives as individuals and as a species, then it's drastically important that we do something or it's incredibly important that we do something dramatic about this quickly. You know, that's what you've got to tell people. And I think that's what more and more journalists are deciding. And, you know, I think that, I mean, the other thing that I think about a lot is that especially the way that social media and video and audio and just the whole technology and information revolution has transformed media, authenticity of voice has become so much more important. Like the way that journalism used to work with the, you know, the type of attempt to have that neutral voice that you were describing, you know, that that worked for previous generations and that worked in an environment where there were three broadcast news stations and like, you know, one or two or three national newspapers and one local newspaper because their people didn't have a choice. But now when you can get your news from a million different sources and a ton of news influencers on social media or on YouTube and from Joe Rogan or whichever podcast of your choice, like people respond to authenticity of voice and to people who feel like friends or who feel like someone they can trust. So I think if you're not bringing your full self, I mean, not every journalist is going to want to or be able to do this. But if you're not bringing some version of your full self to your reporting, if you're pretending like you're not a human being, like you're trying to act like you're, you know, some anonymous bot who's just repeating statistics or transcribing talking points from third parties, people aren't going to respond to that. They're just not going to want that. They're going to reject you and go get their news from someone who might be or probably is less reputable or less likely to give them good information. So I think the more journalists can embrace that and acknowledge, yeah, we have a stake in this, we care, we're real, we're not going to sound like the New York times of the 1950s. No disrespect to them, they did great work. But I think that the more we move in this direction, not to advocacy necessarily, but to bringing our voices and more of our full selves and to acknowledging where we're coming from. And yeah, we're still going to do rigorous journalism, but we're going to bring our perspective to it as well. I think that's good for confronting the climate crisis and it's good for sustaining our business models, too.

[Sadie Babbitts]

I don't think of of your newsletter, the boiling point. You have that authenticity and that voice and is actually in the early days of when you started writing that newsletter that I also like, I found myself going, oh, I could say more and feel more comfortable about that because you do create that trust with your readers. Right. And I think you strike a nice balance.

[Sami Roth]

I'm glad to hear that. What's happening? What's it like at NPR these days covering climate change? Obviously, NPR has been in the news a lot with federal funding stuff, but I mean, you guys continue to do great climate change reporting, and you're obviously a crucial part of that. What's the atmosphere been like and what's it like at NPR covering climate these days?

[Sadie Babbitts]

Yeah, so I'm a climate editor at npr, and we are continuing to cover climate change robustly, rigorously, as we always have. And that's not going to change. There is such a powerful role of journalism. There always has been at this particular moment in time. I feel like climate journalists have a really important role in getting information, trusted information to people, and we take that very seriously on the climate desk. And so I think that we are covering climate change in a way that we would with regardless of administration. It's the same approach that we've taken with every administration, which is relying on the facts, talking to scientists, which is increasingly difficult because scientists are worried about retribution. We're talking with federal workers. We're having conversations. And so many journalists trying to bring those stories, those connections to people of, you know, what changes in environmental regulation, climate policy mean for everyone. And that's not going to change.

[Sami Roth]

That's good to hear.

[Sadie Babbitts]

Yeah.

[Sami Roth]

How many people do you have on your climate desk? Okay, hang on. I have to always count them. Oh, Sadie's counting on her fingers now. Approximately.

[Sadie Babbitts]

Okay, let me do. I want to get this right.

[Sami Roth]

Okay.

[Sadie Babbitts]

Okay, so, so we have three.

[Sami Roth]

She's narrating in her notebook.

[Sadie Babbitts]

I know, I know.

[Sami Roth]

Narrating here.

[Sadie Babbitts]

Yes. So 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 9, I think. So we're at 9 right now.

[Sami Roth]

That's fantastic.

[Sadie Babbitts]

Yeah, There you go. I did the math.

[Sami Roth]

You counted to nine. I'm proud of you.

[Sadie Babbitts]

But the other thing I'll mention about this, so we have a really great team at npr, and we're covering climate solutions. We're covering the intersection of health and climate change, which is such an underreported area. We're covering a lot of accountability in climate spaces. We're also looking at climate change and the intersection with indigenous populations as well, with one of our fellows. The other thing is I lead a group of climate reporters from all around the the country who work at NPR affiliate stations, member stations. And, you know, we have these weekly calls and we talk through story ideas. And I feel, you know, like we, we often will bring those stories from local stations to npr. And it's just such a great way to understand how climate change is, is impacting across the country. And so that's also a really cool project that we're working on.

[Sami Roth]

And I'm guessing you find that listeners want this stuff.

[Sadie Babbitts]

They do, yes, absolutely.

[Sami Roth]

Yeah. And, you know, I don't know if you saw this. I'm sure you did the new initiative out of Covering climate now, the 89% project.

[Sadie Babbitts]

Yes.

[Sami Roth]

So for folks listening Covering Climate now, this great initiative out of Columbia Journalism Review and the Nation magazine, they partner with news organizations across the country to help them provide better climate coverage, basically. And just recently they launched this initiative, the 89% project, which is basically trying to focus on highlighting the research that shows that on average, around the world, between 80 and 89% of people in most countries want their government to take stronger action on climate change. It's a little lower in the US but still 74% here, which when you think about how hard it is to find bipartisan consensus on anything 74% is a pretty high number. And in some countries the number is even above 90%. So I just, you know, I feel like it's important to recognize that. And it sounds like you found this at npr. People really want to hear about climate change. And I would guess that journalists who are not climate and environment journalists probably would not expect that in the same way that most politicians don't seem to recognize that.

[Sadie Babbitts]

That's so true, Sami. And we hear that a lot from our audience. Sometimes we'll do call outs and ask people what they want to know about climate change, which I think is a really good practice for journalists to. People are interested in what they can do. I find when we do climate solutions story and look at different ways that people are addressing and companies are addressing climate change, those stories resonate with our audiences. And also just in terms of covering climate disasters and hurricanes, making the climate connection, and I think that that's a really important point at the end of the day is like every, every time we can, like as journalists, make that climate connection clear in our stories.

[Sami Roth]

And that's a whole chapter in your book, by the way. That is a whole chapter cover climate solutions. Another good reason to read the book.

[Sadie Babbitts]

Yes. Yeah. And it's sort of, you know, I, you know, I read so much at the end of the day on climate change where I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna, I'm going to just like pull the covers over my head and, you know, but that's not a good way to be. Right. And so how we shape our climate reporting and our stories, it really matters. Right. And I think what would it be like if the tables were turned and the early days of climate journalism weren't so doom and gloom and that it wasn't so politicized? Right. And there wasn't this big debate over climate denialism and is climate real? And what if the story, the body of work from journalists was focused on solutions and a future of the planet that is greener and brighter and lighter and great clean air, all of that. I don't mean to sound Pollyannish, but I think we might be in a different place.

[Sami Roth]

I think we would definitely be in a different place and hopefully we will be in a different place in the future because of that. Yes, I hope so. One more question. Most people who listen to this are not journalists, but they are people who consume news, who read their newspaper, news organization online, or they get news from social media in some way. They're consuming news that's produced by journalists. In one form or another. If they want to see their local news outlets provide more coverage of climate or better coverage of climate change, what can they do to encourage that? How can they prod or poke or nudge their local journalists and editors to do better on covering climate change? What steps can they take?

[Sadie Babbitts]

That is such a great question. And I think especially I work in public media and the public really matters if you're seeing that and you want stronger coverage or different coverage or you're curious about a question around climate change and you'd love a reporter to tackle that. I really encourage people to email their local station or get in touch with their digital outlet and say, hey, have you thought about doing this story? I'd love to hear this story. I've been following your coverage for a long time. Here's what I'd to like. You know, here's something I'm curious about, and I think, like, it's so important to engage with people as journalists, and it can be challenging because we all have really busy lives and, you know, and deadlines to meet. But some of the best stories come from people who feel motivated to write in. Call up, send an email to say, hey, have you thought about this? I think at the end of the day, we're all very curious about, maybe not all. I think at the end of the day, we're pretty curious.

[Sami Roth]

It's a prerequisite for being a journalist.

[Sadie Babbitts]

Absolutely. And so if you, like, if somebody reaches out to me with a question, I'm gonna go explore it and see. And then ultimately, maybe there's a story there that you end up hearing, seeing, reading, and connecting with people.

[Sami Roth]

Great advice. Just please don't email me about nuclear fusion again. I'm not gonna do that one. Sadie, thank you so much for being with us on the podcast. Hot takes is out June 2nd. I hope everyone goes and read.

[Sadie Babbitts]

Thank you so much, Sami. It's really great to be here.

[Sami Roth]

Every Journalist's Guide to Covering Climate Change will be released by island Press on June 2, 2025. If you want to order a copy, we've got a link in the show. Notes. Thank you for listening to Boiling Point. I'm your host, Sammy Roth. My producers are Mary Knopf and Jonathan Shifflet. Sound design and original music by Jonathan Shiflett. Elijah Wolfson is our editor. Denise Callahan is our studio manager. Ben Church is our production manager. Nick Norton is our engineer. Special thanks to LA Times Studio president Anna Magzanian, President and Chief operating officer of the Los Angeles Times, Chris Argentieri and executive editor of the Los Angeles Times, Terry Tango. Boiling Point is executive produced by Darius Derekshon and created by me, Sami Roth.

[Taya Jeanette]

Ever wonder where your water comes from? What it really means to break up with fossil fuels? Or what life might look like in the year 2100? Our friends at the Sierra Club Angeles chapter, in collaboration with Stranded Astronaut Productions, dive into those questions and more in a new podcast called the Climate Dispatch, launching April 22, just in time for Earth Day. Hosted by Taya Jeanette, the show brings together voices from across the climate movement to share stories, fears and hopes for the future all through the lens of Southern California. Guests include Nayeli Kobo, Tori Stevens, Aru Shainia J and Alison Shin. Plus, each episode features music from a local LA band. Listen to the Climate Dispatch at sc.org Climate Dispatch or wherever you get your podcasts. Streaming weekly starting April 22.

[Sami Roth]

The LA Times sports video series Dodgers Debate is coming to your podcast app on March 28th. Tune in for banter analysis and hot takes from me, Dodgers beat reporter Jack Harris and sports columnist Bill Plaschke and Dylan Hernandez. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts.