Inside L.A.’s Solar Megaproject

Summary

Boiling Point: Inside L.A.’s Solar Megaproject Episode Release Date: April 24, 2025

In the April 24, 2025 episode of Boiling Point, hosted by Sammy Roth of the Los Angeles Times Studios, listeners are taken on an in-depth exploration of Los Angeles Department of Water and Power’s (LADWP) ambitious solar and battery storage project, Eland. This groundbreaking initiative represents the largest solar and battery storage endeavor ever undertaken by the city of Los Angeles, aiming to significantly advance the region’s transition to renewable energy.

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Aerial Journey to the Future of Energy

Sammy Roth begins the episode recounting his helicopter tour of the Eland solar farm, situated approximately 80 miles north of downtown Los Angeles in the Kern County desert. The journey provides a panoramic view of the expansive solar and wind farms that blanket the desert landscape.

“As we flew north... it felt like Los Angeles never really ends.” [01:04]

The Eland project comprises two solar farms, Eland 1 and Eland 2, which together are expected to supply 7% of LA's electricity at a record-low price for solar and storage solutions. The visual of countless solar panels stretching across the desert underscores the scale and potential impact of this renewable energy source.

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Unprecedented Scale and Technological Integration

Upon landing at California City’s modest airport, Sammy highlights the sheer magnitude of the Eland Solar Farm, which houses 1.36 million panels—comparable in size to East Los Angeles. The proximity of existing power lines is a crucial factor, enabling the rapid expansion of renewable energy infrastructure without the lengthy delays typically associated with building new transmission lines.

“The fact that LA already had power lines here and was able to build some new ones too, that is a very big deal.” [06:53]

The integration of 172 Tesla lithium-ion batteries within the project allows Eland to store 300 megawatts of solar power for four hours after sunset, ensuring a reliable supply of clean energy even when the sun isn't shining.

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Strategic Vision for Clean Energy Transition

Janice Quinones, LADWP's Chief Executive, provides critical insights into the strategic importance of the Eland project. She emphasizes that Eland is a pivotal step towards LADWP’s goal of achieving 100% clean electricity by 2035, a target that surpasses California’s state mandate of 2045.

“We're on track to get... by 2030, we should be about 98% clean energy.” [14:12]

Quinones outlines the necessity of replicating the Eland model, stating that ten additional projects of this magnitude are required to meet LADWP’s ambitious targets. This expansion is vital not only for increasing renewable energy capacity but also for phasing out reliance on coal and natural gas.

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Challenges and Solutions in Renewable Integration

The episode delves into the complexities of transitioning to renewable energy. Quinones discusses the technical challenges, such as the need for voltage regulation and system stability, which are addressed through advanced technologies like Statcoms and extensive transmission upgrades.

“Switching from fossil fuels to clean energy isn't simple. We've got to move fast for climate reasons.” [08:35]

Additionally, the integration of hydrogen blending at gas plants represents a pivotal strategy in reducing carbon emissions. By substituting a portion of natural gas with green hydrogen, LADWP aims to transition entirely to hydrogen by 2045, further decarbonizing the energy supply.

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Economic and Community Impact

Eland's economic implications are significant, providing affordable clean energy and supporting local economies. Quinones highlights LADWP's approach to maintaining affordable rates despite the substantial investments required for renewable infrastructure.

“We're working on keeping the rates as affordable as we can... probably one of the cheapest increasing rates compared to others.” [23:16]

Being a municipally owned utility allows LADWP to prioritize community benefits and long-term sustainability over shareholder profits, facilitating more strategic and equitable energy solutions.

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Looking Ahead: Confidence in Achieving 100% Clean Energy

Despite the formidable challenges, Quinones expresses unwavering confidence in LADWP's ability to meet its 2035 clean energy goal. She attributes this confidence to the utility’s history of overcoming significant obstacles and its commitment to innovative solutions.

“I'm confident and positive that I'm going to do it. That's 100% our strategy and we're committed to it.” [29:16]

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Balancing Immediate Needs with Long-Term Goals

The episode concludes with a reminder of the delicate balance LADWP must maintain between ensuring immediate energy reliability and pursuing long-term sustainability objectives. Recent events, such as the Palisades fire, underscore the importance of resilient and clean energy infrastructure.

“Whatever might have happened in Pacific Palisades, it's important that city officials don't lose track of the important climate work being done at DWP.” [32:10]

Sammy Roth emphasizes the urgency and significance of LADWP’s initiatives, positioning the Eland project as a beacon of hope and a model for other cities striving towards sustainable energy futures.

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Conclusion

"Inside L.A.’s Solar Megaproject" offers a comprehensive look into LADWP’s transformative efforts to achieve a 100% clean energy landscape by 2035. Through expert interviews, on-the-ground reportage, and insightful analysis, Sammy Roth effectively captures the complexities and triumphs of this monumental shift towards renewable energy, underscoring its critical role in combating climate change and setting a precedent for urban sustainability.

Transcript

[Unknown Host]

This is an LA Times Studios podcast.

[Sammy Roth]

My name is Sammy Roth and I'm the climate columnist for the Los Angeles Times. This is Boiling Point. My favorite days as a journalist are the ones that I don't spend at my computer.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So you said it's already power testing?

[Unknown Speaker]

Eland 1 was energized late September.

[Sammy Roth]

Oh, okay. A few days before Thanksgiving, 2024, I visited the construction site of a solar farm. And it wasn't just any solar farm. It was the biggest solar and battery storage project ever built by the city of Los angeles. It's about 80 miles north of downtown LA in the Kern county desert.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Okay, and when's Eland II going to Integer?

[Unknown Speaker]

I think it's like the end of this week.

[Sammy Roth]

It's technically two solar farms, Eland 1 and Eland 2. And in case you're wondering about all that background noise, I didn't drive to Kern county that day in November. My tour guides from the LA Department of Water and Power, they charted a helicopter.

[Janice Quinones]

The IBV is coming online in March as well. So we have Elite.

[Sammy Roth]

We left from a helipad on the roof of City Hall. The flight took about 40 minutes.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Okay, here we go.

[Sammy Roth]

We wore headsets so we could talk to each other in the helicopter, but it was still pretty hard to hear. It was loud in there. The main thing I was thinking about as we flew north was that it felt like Los Angeles never really ends. Even as we left the downtown skyscrapers behind and moved past the suburbs that sprawl out in every direction, One of the first landmarks on the other side of the San Gabriel Mountains was the California Aqueduct, bringing drinking water to LA County. Then we got to the desert, and suddenly we were swimming in a sea of wind and solar farms, many of them powering Los Angeles. From the air, the solar farms are hard to distinguish. All of them Tetris, like expanses of black wafers tilting toward the sun, surrounded by desert. Even on a cloudy November morning, the panels were gleaming. It was hard to figure out which one was Eland, but eventually we figured it out, and then we were on the ground.

[Unknown Speaker]

Thank you, sir.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Thank you.

[Sammy Roth]

Five months later, Eland one has been running, and Eland Two. It's almost finished. Together, the solar panels and the lithium ion batteries are expected to supply 7% of LA's electricity. Much of that power for a record low price for solar and storage. If you're looking for a dose of clean energy, optimism as President Trump goes to bat for fossil fuels, Eland is a good place to start. It's a reminder that renewable climate friendly power can in fact replace oil, coal and gas affordably and reliably. I saw it happening with my own eyes on today's podcast. We'll show you how after this break.

[Unknown Host]

It's sort of very similar as to being a foster parent. You go in it not for the length of time, but to know that even two months or 10 years can still create a big impact in a child's life. So CASA is a non profit organization that stands for Court Appointed Special Advocate and they specialize in making sure that the child's needs are met, whether it's medical, health, educational and ensuring that the child is receiving the most ability they can.

[Taya Jeanette]

Ever Wonder where your water comes from, what it really means to break up with fossil fuels, or what life might look like in the year 2100. Our friends at the Sierra Club Angeles Chapter, in collaboration with Stranded Astronaut Productions, dive into those questions and more in a new podcast called the Climate Dispatch, launching April 22, just in time for Earth Day. Hosted by Taya Jeanette, the show brings together voices from across the climate movement to share stories, fears and hopes for the future all through the lens of Southern California. Guests include Nayeli Kobo, Tori Stevens, Aru Shainia J and Alison Chin. Plus each episode features music from a local LA band. Listen to the Climate Dispatch at sc.org Climate Dispatch or wherever you get your podcasts streaming weekly starting April 22nd.

[Sammy Roth]

Our helicopter landed at the tiny run down airport at California City, which if you've heard of the place, is probably because of an infamous real estate scheme. I couldn't help but laugh at a rusty fuel tank with the slogan Building for the Future Today. But in a funny way, the fuel tank was right. A master planned city of half a million people overflowing from LA that never panned out. But in a weird way, this slice of the California desert still represents the future. Just the renewable energy future.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Actually, do you mind if we switch and I sit on the side so I can take pictures out the window.

[Sammy Roth]

In case I Getting into the van with all the folks from the LA Department of Water and Power. It was a tight fit, but I wanted to sit by the window and get a good view as we drove through the sea of solar panels. Because that place, the Eland Solar Farm, it was massive. There were 1.36 million panels. Eland was literally the size of East Los Angeles. The reason LA has been able to put so many solar farms in this part of the desert is because there are electric power lines running from here back to the City across the country. One of the biggest obstacles to expanding renewable energy and phasing out fossil fuels is, is that it takes a very, very long time to build new power lines. So the fact that LA already had power lines here and was able to build some new ones too, that is a very big deal.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Which transmission line?

[Sammy Roth]

Remind me of the line that you.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Guys have through here.

[Sammy Roth]

As you can probably tell from the way the DWP folks in the van answered my question, the public utility has a lot of wires running through this part of the desert and they've added a lot of capacity to those wires to accommodate more solar power. Yeah, because the original line was about 675 megawatts.

[Janice Quinones]

Now we build two 900 megawatts.

[Sammy Roth]

That was Ashkan Nassiri, a power system planning manager at dwp. A few minutes later, we got out of the van and walked through two long rows of white storage containers. Together they housed 172 lithium ion batteries made by Tesla. We're going to avoid getting into an Elon Musk discourse today and instead focus on the fact that these batteries can do something extremely special. Collectively, they can store 300 megawatts of solar power for four hours after sunset and help keep Los Angeles powered with clean energy after dark. Ashkhan told me that a few nights before our tour, he was at DWP headquarters in downtown Los Angeles. At 7:30pm he noticed that Elan's batteries were sending 109 megawatts of power to the electric grid. That's enough energy to power 250,000 typical homes. And at this point, half of the Eland project wasn't even operating yet.

[Unknown Speaker]

That's cool, this project. So it's in some ways solar. Seems so simple. You just plug it in. Yeah, but if you look at the.

[Sammy Roth]

Here's Jason Rondou, an assistant general manager at dwp.

[Unknown Speaker]

We had to install new equipment. We had to install what's called a Statcom, which Ashkan will have to explain to you what that does.

[Sammy Roth]

Basically, Jason was saying that switching from fossil fuels to clean energy isn't simple. We absolutely can do it. We've got the technology. It's not crazy expensive, but it does take work. And we've got to move fast for climate reasons. The previous mayor of Los Angeles, Eric Garcetti, set a goal of 100% clean electricity by 2035 based on the best available climate science. The current mayor, Karen Bass, endorsed that goal. 2035. It's just 10 years away. No, really though, does it feel like.

[Unknown Interviewer]

A long time, or does it feel like not that much time? For 2035, it feels like nothing. I know that's how I feel about it.

[Sammy Roth]

In 2023, about 57% of LA's electricity came from climate friendly sources, mainly solar, wind, geothermal, hydropower and nuclear. With Eland, DWP is projecting that this year 64% of the city's electricity will be climate friendly. But getting to 100% by 2035 is going to require a lot more projects like Eland built a lot faster. That's because in 2023, 10% of the city's power still came from a coal plant in Utah that's supposed to be shut down this summer. And even more significantly, one third of the city's power still came from natural gas and other fossil fuel, including from four gas plants in the LA Basin.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Right, because they keep like the power keeps flashing on and off and stuff.

[Sammy Roth]

The good thing is battery technology is getting a lot more common and a lot cheaper, just like solar did over the last 15 years. As we walked through those white storage containers at Eland, I started thinking about the first big battery project I ever visited.

[Unknown Interviewer]

When I was at the Desert Sun, I was at the commissioning in 20. I think this was 2015 or maybe 2016 for the first. I think it was like the first major bash system with Tesla battery packs in the Imperial Valley. It was like a 35 megawatt system that they commissioned with exactly these. And it was such a big deal. It was 35 megawatts.

[Sammy Roth]

As much as I wanted to get a look inside the storage containers and see the Tesla megapacks, that was not going to happen.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Can't really get inside of them. I wish I could, but they're pretty close to the chest with their technology too, so. Oh, Tesla locks this.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yes.

[Janice Quinones]

They have a very intricate monitoring system so they know when they're misbehaving.

[Sammy Roth]

That was Janice Quinones, chief executive of the LA Department of Water and Power. She's got a hard job making sure everyone in Los Angeles has clean drinking water and keeping the lights on and trying to make sure that power lines don't spark fires and supplying water to firefighters when inevitably there is a fire. And now add to that fighting climate change, which means 100% clean energy by 2035, with an interim goal, by the way, of 98% clean energy by 2030, just five years from now or six years back when I interviewed Janice in November.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Okay, so what's the most important stuff that has to happen over the next six years?

[Janice Quinones]

For that to happen. Ten projects like this.

[Sammy Roth]

Ten. I sat down with Janice after we finished touring Elin to ask her what comes next for the city of Los Angeles. We're going to play that interview, but first, a quick break.

[Unknown Host]

It's sort of very similar as to being a foster parent. You go in it not for the length of time, but to know that even two months or 10 years can still create a big impact in a child's life. So CASA is a nonprofit organization that stands for Court Appointed Special Advocate. And they specialize in making sure that the child's needs are met, whether it's medical, health, educational, and ensuring that the child is receiving the most ability they can.

[Halim oh Yudin]

Who's abducting 100,000 children in China each year? And how was a cult where paedophilia, murder and torture were commonplace allowed to operate in Chile for nearly four decades? At True Crime Reports, a new video podcast from Al Jazeera, we'll investigate these stories from the global south and beyond. True crimes that often haven't reached the headlines in the West. I'm Halim oh Yudin. In each episode, we'll take you to a different country. You'll hear from experts and first hand accounts from those right at the heart of these stories. True Crime Reports find us Under Al Jazeera's YouTube channel podcast tab and wherever you get your podcasts.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I'm sitting here with Janice Quinones, the chief executive of the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power, at the pilot lounge at the Mojave Airport in the High Desert. Janice, thank you very much for being with us on the Boiling Point podcast.

[Janice Quinones]

Thank you for having me, Sami.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So we just came from the Eland solar and storage plant. Talk about why this is such a big deal for the city of Los Angeles.

[Janice Quinones]

This is our largest solar battery project that we have so far. It's a big improvement to our renewable portfolio. We'll increase our renewable portfolio by 7.5.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So from what I understand, Eland is going to get you from about 40% renewable to 47.5% renewable, right?

[Janice Quinones]

Yeah. Actually today I just look at my numbers. We're at 44.5. And so we'll be over 50% with Elin.

[Sammy Roth]

Right?

[Unknown Interviewer]

You just actually looked at that before we started recording. You just got that email.

[Janice Quinones]

Yes, correct.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So when will eland be finished?

[Janice Quinones]

Eland will be commissioned by the summer of 2025.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So the work we saw happening today, the final solar panels that they're putting in place, I mean, they've been working on this for A few years. They're almost done now.

[Janice Quinones]

Yeah, this project started in 2017 and so it's been many years in the making. I think we broke ground in 2020 right in the middle of COVID So Elan1 is online now, generating its commissioning dates. It's probably in the next couple of weeks. And then Elan 2 will be sometime in March when finishing and generating and then commissioning after that.

[Unknown Interviewer]

DWP has been building solar for a long time. I mean, I think solar has been around for a long time. What is different or special about Eland?

[Janice Quinones]

The battery storage system. So a couple things. Eland is the largest ones we have is about 400 megawatts of solar with 300 megawatts of battery storage. And the price that we got on this project is unheard of and we will never see prices like this again. We did a really good job on the PPA and negotiating the project.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I remember writing about it it back in, I think 2019 or 20. It was a record at the time for how cheap this was. Right?

[Janice Quinones]

It was a record at the time and it's definitely a record today because we can't even get solar at the prices that we get. This combined project with solar and storage, why is that?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Because I remember at the time thinking like, okay, solar is just going to keep getting cheaper and cheaper. Why has that not happened since then?

[Janice Quinones]

I think everybody knows that we have a clean energy goal and so everybody's racing to that same goal at the same time. And it's. And the benefit of the project developers to increase prices as well.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And there's been some supply chain stuff. Right, with the pandemic as well.

[Janice Quinones]

Yeah, a lot of supply chain issues coming from the pandemic and materials not available and workforce as well.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So it kind of turned out to be the perfect timing to get 7.5% of the city of Los Angeles electricity supply and sign that contract. When you did, huh?

[Janice Quinones]

Yes, we did. Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

The fact that city of LA is trying to get 100% clean energy by 2035, I mean, that's ambitious, right? The state of California, the law says 2045. So you guys are 10 years ahead of that. How's it going? I mean, are we on track to get there?

[Janice Quinones]

We are on track to get on them. By 2030, we should be about 98% clean energy. The last 2% will be the toughest and we're working very hard to close that gap.

[Unknown Interviewer]

That's not that long from now in energy timelines. It takes a long time to build stuff what's it going to take over the next six years to get from 70% to 98% and stop burning so much fossil fuel?

[Janice Quinones]

So for 2030, we need four more eland projects coming online, and for 2035, we need six additional eland sized projects coming online. So 10 additional projects of this magnitude coming into our system.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I mean, I want people to understand what a big deal that is. I mean, we just spent the last couple hours touring this site. This thing is giant. I mean, what did they say? 4,800 acres for the whole project?

[Janice Quinones]

Correct. It's 10 times the Dodger Stadium, including the parking lots.

[Unknown Interviewer]

10 times Dodger Stadium, including the parking lots.

[Janice Quinones]

Including the parking lots.

[Unknown Interviewer]

For anyone who hasn't been in the Dodger Stadium parking lots, those things go on forever.

[Janice Quinones]

Correct.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Okay.

[Janice Quinones]

Yeah. It's about 680,000 panels in each one of the oranges. The projects, Eland 1 and Eland 2.

[Unknown Interviewer]

680,000 solar panels. Okay, so we're talking about close to 1.4 million solar panels.

[Janice Quinones]

Correct.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Total in this site. And you want to build, you have to build four more of these over the next. Not four more just like this necessarily, but something on this order of magnitude. Four more over the next six years and six more over the next five years after that.

[Janice Quinones]

The same megawatts. Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Okay, that's big.

[Janice Quinones]

Yes.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And so what are we talking about? Is it just solar and batteries, or is there other technologies that might come into the mix?

[Janice Quinones]

Yeah, we're looking at everything. We're looking at wind, geothermal, solar. I mean, solar is the most available resource that we have for renewables, but we're looking at every technology that we can put our hands on.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Why is there so much solar here in Kern county that you guys are generating renewable electricity from?

[Sammy Roth]

Because we flew in here from city.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Hall this morning and just flying over this area, I mean, talking with you guys in the helicopter, you and your colleagues from gwp, there was almost a little confusion of, wait, there's so many solar farms. Which one of these is eland? Like, which one of these are the solar projects with batteries that we already have here? There's so much. Why, why so much from Kern County? Why have you built so much?

[Janice Quinones]

Well, I mean, the solar availability here is better than in the in basin. We have. It's sunny, it's sunny, it's hot, it's, it's, it's a desert. We also have the transmission lines close to it, so we have a huge renewable corridor coming through it. We have the capacity to move that renewable energy into the city.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You have power lines with the space. Basically.

[Janice Quinones]

With the space. Correct. And the land here is cheaper, so it makes financial sense for the developers to come in here versus being in the LA proper.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Okay, so this has kind of become a renewable energy hub, right?

[Janice Quinones]

Yeah, correct. And I don't know where you would put 10 Dodger stadiums inside the LA Basin. Right. Like, it's.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I mean, you're going to. Yeah, that's not going to happen.

[Janice Quinones]

It's not going to happen.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And my understanding, I think, from what your colleagues were telling me, is you have space on the transmission lines to put even more renewable energy out here.

[Janice Quinones]

If you need to. Yeah, we are expanding all the way to 3 gigawatts on the transmission lines to move more power from renewable sources into the city.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So for context, 3 GW is bigger than Diablo Canyon, the nuclear plant. That's what, 2.2 gigawatts or something?

[Janice Quinones]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Okay. So people traditionally. And you talked about the batteries and what a big deal the batteries are, and I want to drill into that further. People traditionally, I think, have thought of solar as, okay, it gives you electricity when. When the sun is shining, but not so good after that. Talk about how that's changing and why you said 400 megawatts of solar, but then also 300 megawatts of batteries. What does that give you the capacity to do or the capability to do that you couldn't do before? How is this solar plant actually going to be operated?

[Janice Quinones]

So whenever the sun is not shining, we will use that storage capacity to provide renewable power into the city. And whenever the sun is shining, whatever excess generation we have, we store that excess generation on the battery. So we dispatch that energy either to lower our peak load, that comes after the solar comes out, all the renewables come offline, and you see the huge load coming that comes through our generation plants, or whenever we have emergencies, we can also dispatch the battery power.

[Sammy Roth]

So because you have.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And those are those big white storage containers that we were walking through, the big Tesla power packs, Right?

[Janice Quinones]

Correct.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Okay, so that's soaking up the sun during the middle of the day, and then you send it down those power lines to LA after the sun goes down and it's still hot and people are running the air conditioning.

[Janice Quinones]

Correct.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Does that mean. So that the big gas plants down in Los Angeles, Valley Generating Station in the Valley, the one that had the big methane leak that maybe people have read about, and then the ones on the coast, Scattergood, Haines and Harbor, the fact that you've got these big Tesla power packs up here with all the solar. You won't need to fire those up quite as much. Is that basically the idea, the goal.

[Janice Quinones]

Is that we won't fire them as much. We have to do a lot of transmission upgrades in our systems. We have about 50 transmission projects going right now to upgrade the transmission lines coming from areas like this, but also inside the LA basin.

[Unknown Interviewer]

To make it easier to move the electricity from place to place.

[Janice Quinones]

Yeah. And to get the capacity that we need in the areas that we have. If we are not running the generation plans as much, we have to bring the power from places like this through our transmission lines. So that's why we have to upgrade the system internally. Also. We will run those plants when it gets really hot and we don't have enough reliability locally in the basin. And also to manage voltage fluctuations and how we operate the system.

[Unknown Interviewer]

It's complicated running an electric system.

[Janice Quinones]

It is not easy. Yes.

[Sammy Roth]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I mean, my gosh, what is it? How many people do you serve? How many customers?

[Janice Quinones]

1.6 million. In the electric side, about 900.

[Unknown Interviewer]

On the water side, 1.6 million homes, businesses, other metered properties.

[Janice Quinones]

And then okay, yeah, people is 4 million, but meters is 1.6.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And you've got to keep the lights on and the refrigerators running and the data centers at One Wilshire and everything going 24 hours a day, seven days a week and nothing can break or you're in trouble, huh?

[Janice Quinones]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Losing power is a big deal because people notice immediately. Right. And so our goal is to keep the lights on and the water flowing, but at the same time make sure that it's clean energy and that we do it in an affordable way and we do it in an equitable way. And so every day we're balancing multiple things that we're trying to achieve.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You talk about doing it in an affordable way. You said that you got a record cheap price for. And that was for the first Elan one. Right. So Eland two is a little more.

[Janice Quinones]

Expensive, just a little bit more, but still cheaper than many people will ever be able to get a project like this.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Are people going to notice it in their. In their rates? This build out of renewable energy going to 100% clean energy, is that going to make electricity more expensive?

[Janice Quinones]

We are working on keeping the rates as affordable as we can. There's going to be investments that need to be made that are above and beyond our capital expenditures that we have today. So eventually the rates will increase. But we're probably one of the cheapest increasing rates compared to others trying to get to this clean energy transition.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Okay, so I mean practically speaking, rates at DWP are already lower than they are at PG and E. SoCal Edison.

[Janice Quinones]

The third lowest in the state.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Okay. Yeah, third lowest after what Sacramento and SMUD and.

[Janice Quinones]

Yeah, Sacramento and I think they Imperial.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Immigration, that was what my guess would have been. Okay. And so the rate, the increases that you're looking at, there's probably something, but it's less than others are looking at.

[Janice Quinones]

Yeah. And SMOD just raised their rates too. Just increased by 5%.

[Unknown Interviewer]

SMUD being Sacramento Municipal Utility District. The fact that you guys are municipally, you know, you're owned by the city, you're part of of the city. Does that put you in a better position to do this in an affordable way than an investor owned company, do you think?

[Janice Quinones]

Yeah, we don't have shareholders that we answer to. We don't have to do EPS earnings per share target so that our stock stays on power.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You also don't have to shave off a rate of return, a guaranteed profit for shareholders.

[Janice Quinones]

Correct, Correct.

[Unknown Interviewer]

One other thing that I think is interesting about the timeline here with Eland, it seems to be coming online and I don't know if you planned it this way just in time as well for the release retirement of the big coal plant that you guys operate in Utah. Right.

[Janice Quinones]

I don't think we time it for that specific timeline, but it just happened that it's happening at the same time. So next year is going to be a big year for LADWP because we will be retiring about 13% of our portfolio, which is coal based. And then we're bringing the hydrogen blending in Utah and then solar here at the same time.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Right. So talk about the hydrogen project because. So I guess Intermountain Coal plan to shutting down. Talk about what you're replacing it with.

[Janice Quinones]

Yeah, we're replacing it with natural hydrogen blend gas turbines. So we can burn about 30% hydrogen and 70% natural gas. The goal is by 2035, 2045 will be 100% hydrogen. We went from 1,800 megawatts of coal to 848 megawatts of hydrogen blend. And the best part of this project is that we have storage in place. So it's seasonal storage. We can store for days and months of power. The same thing that the batteries are doing for four or five hours, we can do there for months.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So let me do a little bit of translating here. So coal plant is shutting down in Utah. DWP is building A new power plant. It's going to run mostly on natural gas, which is a fossil fuel to begin with, but with some green hydrogen mixed in. Right. Hydrogen, which is clean burning. And you're going to generate, create the hydrogen with renewable energy so it's totally clean. And then the idea is by 2045, you get that to be completely hydrogen.

[Janice Quinones]

Green hydrogen.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Green hydrogen. Right. You're going to phase out the fossil fuel, assuming the technology evolves as you need it to and you're doing that same thing, or you're planning to do that same thing at those gas plants in the Los Angeles area. Right. The three on the coast and the one in the valley.

[Janice Quinones]

Correct.

[Unknown Interviewer]

How important is that hydrogen strategy to getting to 100% clean energy? Is that an important part to have those five gas plants that eventually are running on hydrogen?

[Janice Quinones]

It's super important because there's no business plan that says that we cannot have generation in basin and there's no other solution for generation in basin, depending on the load that we're carrying. That is not hydrogen as of today. So unless something changes with storage or technology, hydrogen is our outcome.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Okay, so you're saying that you need some kind of fuel, something that you can burn and turn on and off and spin turbines in order to keep the power on in Los Angeles. Because there are some environmental groups who, as I'm sure you know, are following what's going on at those gas plants and who are saying, hey, we don't like gas and we understand why you're doing hydrogen, but hydrogen is risky and not totally proven yet. And we'd prefer if you just did batteries there like you're doing here at Eland Solar. Why don't you just put batteries in those sites and make it totally clean?

[Janice Quinones]

Correct.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Not possible.

[Janice Quinones]

It's a four hour dispatchable load. It's very risky. You need all the space to build that kind of capacity which we don't have. And so from a reliability and resiliency perspective, I wouldn't recommend that. No.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Okay, so you're saying it would be hard because you don't have the space to put the batteries, wouldn't do all of the things physically that the gas turbines or eventually hydrogen turbines would do.

[Janice Quinones]

There's a lot more to running a utility than just the capacity of the generation. We also need voltage mitigations and regulation that the power plants do for us as well.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah. So there's all these different pieces to getting to 100% by 2035. I find this endlessly fascinating and I'm sure You do too. You run a utility. I mean, you've got all of the solar and the batteries that you're building up here in Kern County. I mean, you've got wind. Right. As well. I mean, you guys isn't the second biggest. I mean, this is going to be the biggest renewable power plant that you have. Isn't the second biggest like a wind farm in New Mexico? Does that sound right? The Red Cloud Wind Farm?

[Janice Quinones]

Sounds. Sounds right, Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I mean, you've got the wind in New Mexico. You've got a bunch of nuclear power from Arizona.

[Janice Quinones]

About 13.9% coming from nuclear power.

[Unknown Interviewer]

13.9% of your power coming from the Palo Verde nuclear plant in Arizona. There you go. Hydropower from the Sierra region, not to mention the gas plants which are going.

[Janice Quinones]

To go to Hoover Dam.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Hoover Dam. There you go. I always forget about Hoover Dam and I shouldn't. You've got some geothermal too, from Nevada.

[Janice Quinones]

Geothermal too, yes.

[Unknown Interviewer]

As I recall, it's this fascinating balancing act. How confident do you feel that you're going to get to that 100% by 2035 that you can keep this incredible juggling act going and keep all the pieces in the air and get the coal off the system, get the gas to go to hydrogen? I mean, it's hard. It's obviously not an easy thing. Are you going to be able to do it? It's not a long time.

[Janice Quinones]

I'm confident and positive that I'm going to do it. That's 100% our strategy and we're committed to it. And once you commit to a strategy, all we have to do is solve for the problems. And LADWP has a great history of solving for great challenges. Right. You talk about the aqueduct, talk about having the first hydrogen blended generation plant in the world. There's a lot of things that we're doing first off and that we've been very successful at. We have the talent and the know how and a lot of people are really interested to be. To partner with us to make this happen.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Do you feel like the. I mean, DWP is so well known for its water? I mean, everyone knows the Owens Valley. You know, the water history and the water grab. DWP frequently makes headlines for, you know, for scandals when somebody does something they shouldn't have done. To me, the power system is the most interesting part for the reasons we've been discussing. Why do you think that goes under the radar sometimes?

[Janice Quinones]

Yeah, we have not done a great job at telling our story and so we're being More reactive than proactive. And we're changing that and making sure that people know all the great things that we're doing on the power system, on the water system, and then the company as a whole. We do a lot for the communities, too. And people don't know how much we're integrated into our communities and how much we support the local economy in multiple ways. So I think we will change that in the way that we tell our story.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Do you think that other utilities that are not DWP can do the things that you are doing because you have the geographic reach of all of these energy sources that you happen to have in all of these different places? I mean, and a lot of it is sort of a salacious history. I mean, there's the lines that go out to all of these coal plants that, you know, coal is super polluting, and it's unfortunate that they were built, but that's how things were done. You know, you have just. You have tentacles, right, that go all over the Western United States, and that's one of the reasons why it's easier to now convert them to renewables. Not every utility has that. Not every city, not every company. I feel like you're in a little bit of a position here where maybe not everyone has those advantages. Can everyone else do this? Is it possible to then say for others to follow your lead and say, okay, 100% by 2035, DWP is doing it. We can do what they're doing. Or is it harder than that?

[Janice Quinones]

They can do it in a different way. They have to be intentional about how they communicate with the stakeholders. Like, if you're integrated into the ISO or you're managing other contracts, you have to make sure everybody is attached to the same goal and they're committed to that goal. We are vertically integrated, which means we own our generation, our transmission and distribution system, which helps with that tentacle, but they also have tentacles. They're just not owning them all. So making sure that all the partners on that chain are working towards the same goals, it's almost the same outcome.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Janice, thank you very much for being with us on the Boiling Point podcast.

[Janice Quinones]

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[Sammy Roth]

In the few months since I recorded this interview, DWP has had its hands full for an entirely different reason. Six weeks after I visited Eland, the Palisades fire ignited. DWP has faced several lawsuits alleging that it could have done more to contain the fire, or alternately, that its equipment may have played a role in fueling the blaze. Those lawsuits will take time. But whatever might have happened in Pacific Palisades, it's important that city officials don't lose track of the important climate work being done at DWP 98% clean energy by 2030 100% by 2035. Those are crucial targets. LA is trying to set an example for the world and time is short. We can't lose focus thank you for listening to Boiling Point. I'm your host Sammy Roth. My producers are Mary Knoff and Jonathan Shiflet. Sound design and original music by Jonathan Shiflett. Elijah Wolfson is our editor. Denise Callahan is our studio manager Ben Church is our Production manager Nick Norton is our engineer. Special thanks to LA Times Studio President Anna Magzanian, President and Chief Operating Officer of the Los Angeles Times, Chris Argentieri and Executive Editor of the Los Angeles Times, Terry Tang. Boiling Point is executive produced by Darius Derekshon and created by me, Sammy Roth.

[Unknown Speaker]

The LA Times Sports Video Series Dodgers Debate is coming to your podcast app on March 28th. Tune in for banter analysis and hot takes from me, Dodgers beat reporter Jack Harris and sports columnist Bill Plaschke and Dylan Hernandez. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts.