← Boiling Point
Boiling Point
Taking a Hack at Climate Change
00:38:07
Sammy Roth welcomes award-winning actor Hannah Einbinder to the show. You may know her for her role as Ava Daniels on HBO Max’s “Hacks.” Or maybe you’re familiar with her climate advocacy — including a new campaign for fossil fuel divestment in Hollywood. She and Sammy discuss the intersection between climate and creativity, and why she thinks mushrooms (the legal kind!) will save us all.
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- [00:01]
Hannah Einbinder
This is an LA Times Studios podcast.
- [00:08]
Sami Roth
My name is Sami Roth and I'm the climate columnist for the Los Angeles Times. This is boiling point. Usually when an actor wins an award, they'll use their acceptance speech to thank their family and their agent and their co stars. Once in a while, they might bring up politics or some cause that's especially important to them, but even then, they'll usually keep it pretty sanitized. They'll say something that won't feel too jarring for folks who aren't already singing from the same hymnbook. So when Hannah Einbinder, one of the stars of the HBO series Hacks, won the Critics Choice Award for Best Supporting Actress in a Comedy earlier this year, her acceptance speech was definitely outside the ordinary. She spent the whole thing talking about the climate crisis. She said, and I quote, we are on the brink of a really dark era of climate denial. She called out Chevron specifically for its role in the plastic pollution crisis. She said, fossil fuel companies, and again, I quote, need to pay to clean up the mess that they made. She ended by saying, planet Earth will be fine. It's humanity that's in trouble. So Einbinder doesn't mince word about climate change or about the fossil fuel industry. That's just not who she is. Earlier this year, as the Eaton fire and the Palisades fire were tearing through L A County, Einbinder joined the Sunrise Movement for a rally at a Phillips 66 oil facility in Carson.
- [01:47]
Hannah Einbinder
And the oil companies depend on that fatigue. They depend on our need to compartmentalize. They depend on our anger to subside so that they can continue their dark work. But oil executives don't understand that it is not just anger that fuels us, but love. Our love for each other and our love for our miraculous planet Earth will never dissipate. We cannot stop this effort. Every single one of us must join this movement for the sake of humanity's survival on this planet. And I am sorry to her, but Mars is ugly. We are not going there. We want a future on Earth. Yeah, we want future on Earth. When do we want it?
- [02:40]
Sami Roth
Yeah.
- [02:41]
Hannah Einbinder
And if we don't get it, shut it down. If we don't get it, shut it down. Give it up for Sunrise movie.
- [02:53]
Sami Roth
I don't know this for a fact, but I've got to think. Einbinder is one of the most outspoken people in Hollywood on climate change. So I wasn't surprised to see her name in a press release that landed in my inbox this summer. Hundreds of actors had joined a campaign led by the environmental group Stand Earth, calling on the actors union SAG AFTRA to divest its $5 billion pension plan from fossil fuel companies. Supporters of the campaign included Mark Ruffalo, Jane Fonda, Don Cheadle, Paul Bettany, Chelsea Handler, Eva Longoria, Mark Ham, and of course, Hannah Einbinder. As it turned out, I had just recently started watching Hacks in which Einbinder stars as a young comedy writer who gets sent to Las Vegas to help an aging stand up comedian played by Jean Smart revive her career. I'm only four seasons behind, but better late than never and it's a super, super funny show. Anyway, after I saw the press release about the SAG AFTRA campaign, I started thinking it would be interesting to ask Einbinder what it's been like taking such a vocal stance on climate in Hollywood and also about the environment storylines that have been featured on her show and there are a bunch of them. She very graciously agreed to an interview with some minor spoiler alerts for hacks. Here's our conversation.
- [04:16]
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- [06:14]
Sami Roth
Hannah thank you very much for being with us on the Boiling Point podcast.
- [06:17]
Hannah Einbinder
Well, Sami, I'm pleased to be here. I've been a listener since episode one.
- [06:21]
Sami Roth
Oh, that's very kind.
- [06:23]
Hannah Einbinder
Yes, it was a salve for me when it first out kind of around the fires, so I was really happy to listen.
- [06:30]
Sami Roth
Well, that's interesting that you mentioned the fires, because I was gonna ask you about that. You know, I recently just rewatched. There's a clip that's floating around on social media that just, I think a week and a half after the fires, you were down, down at that Phillips 66 facility in Carson with the sunrise movement. There was a rally they did there. One of my colleagues wrote about it. But you made a pretty passionate speech about how it was the oil industry that really brought us to this point of death and destruction and that we needed to band together and not let our anger subside and not let our love subside and keep going and join together in this climate movement. And I'm wondering if you could just talk now a little bit, One, about how you were feeling in that moment right in the wake of this tragedy. And two, looking back, how you think Los Angeles has responded for better or for worse now that we've had some, you know, some time after these fires.
- [07:23]
Hannah Einbinder
Yeah, it was incredibly heartbreaking. You know, I think that there's like this quote going around, like, climate conscious Internet spaces of like climate change will be viewed as a series of disasters through your phone screen until you're watching it at your front door, basically. And that was my experience. You know, it's something that I have been conscious of and passionate about, you know, speaking publicly about for some time and for it to come home and, you know, confront us here in Los Angeles. You know, I'm a third generation Los Angeleno. My love for the city of LA is really deep and my pride in Los Angeles is really deep. And, you know, even just to today, like, you know, driving down PCH and seeing the utter carnage and seeing so many things that I have strong memories around, just totally melted is so bizarre and terrifying and heartbreaking. So, you know, it's super, super personal on so many levels for me. And the experience of watching that was enraging. You know, it was totally enraging. And we know that there are myriad factors that contributed to the LA fires. Obviously, we know climate was responsible partially. We know that, like, the city's response could have been much better. I guess the only silver lining, and I sort of almost like hesitate to use that word, was like the way that I experienced the fires was our beautiful communities coming together and, like, really acting very quickly. And, you know, all of the mutual aid organizations in LA that had already been up and running, you know, SELA and all the community fridges and, you know, the Pasadena Job center and Eskina Bicycle Shop and, like, Mutual Aid Network, Louisiana, like all of these amazing institutions in la, mutual aid organizing were ready to go. And, you know, Angeleno's, despite all of the horrifically offensive stereotypes about us, we, like, we were a massive community. Like all of the various communities in la, especially Altadena, like, they were huge leaders in the response, and it was moving to be a part of it, and it was moving to see that. And it was the only thing that was, you know, that helped my truly shattered heart, you know, in that time.
- [09:57]
Sami Roth
What I remember writing at the time, I think the first piece I wrote after the fires was that my fear was that in terms of our response to climate change, that it wasn't going to change anything. That, you know, we would. Some of us at least, would be thinking about climate change in that moment and for maybe a couple of weeks afterwards, and then sort of we would go back to our normal lives and climate change would sort of sink back into the background. I don't know. My own personal sense has been that that's sort of happened since then. What's your feeling? I mean, you've continued to talk about it. I mean, and I've continued to write about it. How do you feel? Like others have responded?
- [10:31]
Hannah Einbinder
I think that, you know, yes, I think yes and no. I think for those who were personally affected, this is like. This is forever, you know, for those whose houses were lost and for those who were pushed into, you know, who were evicted by landlords and those who paid a really personal price, this is like going to follow them for a really long time. And, you know, for those of us who stand in solidarity with those people and who view this issue as important, and the fires, as, you know, we're not out of the woods, not even close, you know. You know, we will continue to talk about it, but I think, yeah, I think. Look, I think the pain of reality is so overwhelming that a lot of people have to focus on what they, you know, can do to survive and provide for their families. And it's, like, just too heavy for a lot of people to confront and to stew in, in the way that I think some of us can't help but to. So, yeah, I think yes and no. It's true for some people for some people, it's not. You know, it's like just yet another horror in the myriad horrors that we exposed to daily.
- [11:40]
Sami Roth
So one of the things that I find so valuable about the comedy that you do, talking about the pain of reality and the myriad of horrors, I mean, making climate change and making some of these horrors funny. And we've done episodes on this podcast about climate comedy. Shout out to Esteban Gast, who's one of the best at this as well. But, I mean, that speech that you did at the Phillips 66 terminal, you ended with the great bit about Mars. We're. Mars is. I'm sorry. I'm just going to quote because I wrote this down. I am sorry to her, but Mars is ugly. We are not going there. We want a future on Earth with some cursing in there. And I'm not sure if we're allowed to curse on this show, so I'll just leave it out. But I'm hoping you can just talk a little bit about the power of bringing humor to these issues, and we'll talk more about hacks. But you've done it on your show. You've done it in your comedy special. Everything Must Go. You've done it on Late night. Why bring humor? Why bring jokes to this stuff? What's your purpose in that?
- [12:34]
Hannah Einbinder
Yeah, I mean, I think, like, just for me as a comedian, I'm talking about the things that feel really personal to me, and this is one of those things. And I think that, like, art can be a beautiful Trojan horse for important issues. You know, you hook them with something personal and then, you know, get him on what you really want to say. I mean, you know, I love political comedians. I appreciate, you know, the work of George Carlin, who, of course, is like, such an incredible blueprint for this type of a thing. And it is my also personal coping mechanism. Like when I thought of this joke that I have in my special where I personify the earth as Marisa Tomei yelling at humanity to get the fuck out of her house. Oops, sorry, the f. Out of her house.
- [13:20]
Sami Roth
That's the My Cousin Vinny bit, right?
- [13:21]
Hannah Einbinder
Yeah, yeah. It was from a place of feeling enraged. I was so sick of what I was seeing, and it felt like the last straw for me personally. And so that voice was me at first kind of yelling at, you know. Cause, I mean, Sammy, I don't know. I don't know how you blow off steam, but I yell and scream in my apartment by myself all the time. You know, I get in fake fights with my Enemies all the time. And so I was like, oh, yeah, I guess this could be kind of funny. And I could punch this up with jokes and I can frame it as a character piece. And, you know, it just. It's like almost like, oh, my God, this is so horrific and cringe for me to say, but it's like how I process, you know, my pain is through art.
- [14:05]
Sami Roth
My strategies are much more boring by comparison. I send passive aggressive subtweets.
- [14:11]
Hannah Einbinder
Oh, my God. If I could bear being on Twitter, I would love to follow you, man.
- [14:15]
Sami Roth
No, and I also. I just. I wanted to bring up one specific example that I especially liked that I think is valuable just because it points to a specific policy I loved. You were on Colbert. I want to say this was earlier this year. RIP Colbert.
- [14:29]
Hannah Einbinder
Yeah, man.
- [14:29]
Sami Roth
Not that he won't do something, but you were asked about whether your character, Ava and Jean Smart's character, Deborah, and hacks were ever gonna hook up, which seems to be a topic of great fascination for many fans, understandably. And you turned it into this wonderful bit about how, look, you know, hey, that's probably not gonna happen. But you love it how when you're posting on Instagram about how people should support SB222, this bill in California that would make it easier for people to sue oil companies for damages from climate disasters, you're just always getting these responses about, make them and, hey, it's impossible to kiss on a dead planet. There's no kissing on a dead planet. And I just. I love that because it was obviously super funny, but also, like, you made it an opportunity to bring up this bill that you wanted people to support. Was that. I mean, was that something. I'm just so curious. Was that something like that you had workshopped, like, you went in prepared to say that, or did that just kind of come out on the spot?
- [15:23]
Hannah Einbinder
You know, I went in trying to figure out, like, a way for me to talk about SB222 and that just, you know, I did a little bit of embellishing to make that, you know, work. Like, just kind of like working, you know, the. Like that bit into the. Into the. Just. Yeah, Me talking about it. And I also would like to amend part of that, which is there's no kissing on a dead planet. I want to amend part of that, which is true. But we know, of course, that, you know, the Earth will sustain itself for billions of years until the sun explodes. We know that Earth will be fine, but that it is humanity that will perish. So I do want to you know, that was kind of off the dome. And I want to just, you know, I know your listeners will probably be like, well, actually, the planet is not going to die.
- [16:20]
Sami Roth
Because actually, you know, how very journalistic of you to issue a correction. Very good. Almost nobody does that, actually. I get readers and listeners who say stuff like that all the time, and it drives me crazy. Some of them are good about it, but I try to get that right.
- [16:35]
Hannah Einbinder
Yes, it's important. It's important, yeah.
- [16:38]
Sami Roth
Why did you think it was particularly important? I've heard you bring this up several times. The sort of make polluters pay concept which keeps failing to pass in California, which a lot of people would think, wow, California can't hold oil companies more accountable. I'm just curious, why is that something that you've personally latched onto? Because I notice you've just brought that up on a number of occasions.
- [16:57]
Hannah Einbinder
Well, Sammy, I love revenge. And no, I just think that money is the language they speak. And I think if we, you know, the main goal would of course be to prevent these disasters. But if we live in a system where, you know, the capitalist class not only profits from the emissions, but from the disasters themselves. Of course, anyone who is familiar with the Shock doctrine, a great book by Naomi Klein, will know that they cash in on every element of the climate crisis as long as that system is ruling the day, as it is in America and across the world. This seems like one of the more realistic ways to react to. Would of course be great if we could end what they are doing in the first place. That's the overall goal. But I think right now it's more realistic to just charge them for what they are responsible for.
- [18:00]
Sami Roth
Well, for those who are interested, those bills have not gone anywhere in California yet, but it seems like there are going to be efforts to bring them back next year. So definitely an opportunity to stay tuned. Another thing I'm curious about, there's clearly a lot of folks in Hollywood, in the industry, as we say in la, who try to avoid things getting into anything, quote, unquote, political. Climate change should of course not be political. I'm so curious, since you're so outspoken, what kind of response do you get from fans, from executives, just in general? What kind of feedback do you get when you're out there speaking so strongly about these issues, talking about climate, about the connections between climate and capitalism? I mean, what do you hear from folks?
- [18:42]
Hannah Einbinder
I don't really know what executives think about me. I don't really talk to them. I'm just kind of in my little bubble of, like, other artists. But I get really, like, a lot of love from, I guess. Yeah. The people who follow me online. And of course, like, you know, climate change is only one of the issues that I speak about. I talk a lot about Palestine, and that's obviously incredibly divisive, especially for me as a Jewish person. I get a lot of support from my community. I get a lot of hate from my community. I've made peace with that. But, you know, I agree with you that the issue of climate is so far from political. It's just totally, to me, like, so nonpartisan. It's like, you know, it is one of these issues that is a class issue to me, you know, and most of us are not in the 1%. Yeah. It's just about humanity.
- [19:41]
Sami Roth
How did climate first become something that became so, I don't know, important or personal to you? I guess I'm curious about your process of finding your voice and just this was something that you decided you wanted to really speak out about and take a stand on, because, again, it's not something that comes so naturally and is so personal for a lot of the folks that are probably in your circles in this business.
- [20:03]
Hannah Einbinder
I've had multiple very significant moments of radicalization in my life. I think understanding climate has led me to understand these toxic systems responsible for it and all suffering. You know, as we've talked about capitalism and imperialism and white supremacy and all of these things that, you know, climate is just one of many symptoms, you know, of the sickness of these systems. So I think, you know, it comes from an understanding of greed and understanding of these really toxic systems that sort of dominate our lives. It's also like, you know, I have a deep and profound respect for and connection to nature and the natural world. Like, I love Earth and I love nature and I. And I, you know, I'm fascinated by. By trees and by fungi. And mycology is like a. Is an interest of mine. And I came to mycology as like, sort of a. I became fascinated with mycology via my fascination with trees and understanding that really, like, you know, the trees cannot do their thing without the mushrooms and without the mycelial network and understanding the intricacies of these and understanding that, you know, fungi are closely. More closely resemble animals than they do plants and that trees have access to language and that they are feeling and that, you know, we are learning so, so much about plant intelligence, knowing that, you know, if, like, an elder tree is cut down, all of the trees surrounding it feed it nutrients, like, almost Like a gravestone in the forest. Like, you just can't know that. And, and, and be okay with, you know, people, companies coming in and trying to, you know, deforest. And. And my baby sister Eden is a park ranger, and she was fired by Doge and, you know, from Everglades National. And that is the land where this, like, you know, I hate using these. This word, but alligator Alcatraz is there at the Everglades, and it's just. It's all connected. And I feel so. Just profoundly impacted by these systems that seek to destroy the Earth and increase human suffering. And I just. It's very personal on so many levels.
- [22:44]
Sami Roth
Well, and I imagine that leads you to being in a place of saying, okay, well, I have a, you know, I have a privileged position and a platform where I can raise awareness and I can talk about this stuff and I can spread the word. And so you do that.
- [22:55]
Hannah Einbinder
Yeah. It has never been more clear to me that second to, like, giving. Making people smile and laugh and giving them a little bit of relief from the horror that the function of my abilities as an artist and my platform as an artist is to speak about the things that I see, the maladies in our society and the destruction of Earth. I am under no illusion that my position has any value other than that.
- [23:27]
Sami Roth
I want to ask more about that and specifically about some of the stories on Hacks. But before I do, just possibly the most important question I'll ask you in this conversation, building on what you just told me, the plural of mushroom. I think I've been pronouncing it wrong my whole life. Is it fungi? Not fungi.
- [23:42]
Hannah Einbinder
You know, I say fungi. I don't think fungi is inaccurate. Many of the leaders in the mycological field say fungi, and so that's why I do, but I don't think it's actually. I don't think there is an unequivocal answer to the question. And so I think you're in the clear.
- [24:04]
Sami Roth
Okay, well, if you're following the leaders of the mycological field, then I should just follow them and follow you. Mary, maybe make a note. I'm talking to our producer Mary here. Maybe for the outro for this episode, I can look that up and see if both are acceptable and inform our listeners for real. We'll be back after a quick break.
- [24:37]
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- [25:38]
Hannah Einbinder
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- [26:34]
Sami Roth
Upfront with you and I am woefully behind on hacks. I only recently started watching it.
- [26:41]
Hannah Einbinder
Sammy, I couldn't understand more. You got a lot on your plate, okay? I want you to focus on what you're doing. You don't need to be up on hacks. Okay?
- [26:49]
Sami Roth
But I am watching hacks now. But I skipped ahead and watched the season three episode one day in advance of this conversation where you and Jean Smart go for that walk in the woods and debate about climate change. But so that thing with the mushrooms where she just before we finish talking about mushrooms or she was able to ID that mushroom and you didn't, was that, was that like a gag because you know all about mushrooms in real life? Because in the show you didn't know anything about mushrooms.
- [27:14]
Hannah Einbinder
Sometimes they will pull from my interests but distort them to fit Ava a little bit more. But yes, the mushroom gag was inspired by my real life.
- [27:26]
Sami Roth
Okay. So I mean just the whole through line of that episode where you're walking through the woods together and you've dragged her out into nature which she seems to not be able to stand, but she's putting up with you and you are trying to convince her that climate change is a real problem and she is just Sort of. You're slowly breaking down her barriers to the point where at the end, she finally is willing to not fly in her private jet quite as much and invest in green stocks and put solar panels on the roof, even though it'll ruin the look of her roof. I'd love to hear about how that episode came to be, to what extent that was an outgrowth of your, you know, your passion for this, these issues. Just how did that come about? How much of that was you versus the writers? Talk about that a little bit.
- [28:11]
Hannah Einbinder
Well, it was all the writers. Paul, Jen and Lucia are. Yeah, I mean, they're super like minded with me on all this stuff. You know, they're really. I'm so grateful that they are, you know, aligned. It was important to them. And, you know, Paul and Lucia just had a kid. Like, they're. They're like, really invested in the future of Earth and the dignity of all human beings. And I think, I think that that's where that comes from. And it's, you know, climate is not the only issue that we, that we tackle on the show, but it is an important one. And they. Yeah, that was all them. And I was really pleased that we were able to, you know, I mean, the beauty of, I think the dynamic between the two of them, between Ava and Deborah, is that we can, we can represent both sides of arguments on all of these issues. And it's like a good model for discourse, I think. You know, kind of two people with mutual respect who can, you know, talk it out. I really appreciated the way in which the show explores all issues, but especially this one.
- [29:19]
Sami Roth
When you do stories like that on the show, I guess, what. What's your goal or what do you hope is the outcome? Like, are you trying to, like, change? Would you describe it as, like, trying to change minds or bring people along or raise awareness? I guess. What. Who are you trying to reach or what are you hoping is, like, what's happening in people's heads as they're watching that?
- [29:37]
Hannah Einbinder
I mean, I think it's all of that. I think we know that a lot of the people who watch the show will be aligned, but the viewership is really diverse. We have a lot of different people who, you know, I like, I'll be in the airport and it'll be like some queer person coming up to me, like, love the show, girl. And then another, like, frat guy coming up to me being like, dude, that shit's so funny. Like, you know, we reach a lot of people. And so, like I said earlier, I think they also know that it's an opportunity to kind of Trojan horse, like, these conversations and these views, you know, I think, like, similar to me, I think they would tell you the same thing that, like, this is what they think about. This is what consumes their mental energy. And so they. They make, you know, work about it because that's what they care about.
- [30:24]
Sami Roth
I've written a bunch of stories about the sort of role of entertainment and TV and film and sort of changing hearts and minds. I mean, do you think that that's. I mean, obviously activism is important. Policy, politics. I mean, do you think there's a role for Hollywood and for entertainment in bringing people along? I mean, you're trying to do it in hacks, clearly. I mean, do you think there's. There's value here more broadly? I mean, does the content. Do you think the content we consume, like, is there something significant there? Or is that ultimately a sideshow to the, you know, to the hard work of advocacy and movement building?
- [30:59]
Hannah Einbinder
I mean, I would hope that we could play a role in that because I do think that art is a great vehicle for changing people's minds. You know, I would hope for more of it. I think that Hollywood is not as liberal. True. I mean, I don't even want to use the word liberal because I honestly feel it's such a. It's not even the term that I would not. You know, it's funny, this, like, stereotype, all these crazy commies in Hollywood. Like, I do not see it that way. I see it as, like, a place of immense wealth and frankly, a lot of conservative politics at the top and like, some kind of shallow, like, you know, it's like Human Rights Campaign, obviously. Like, you know, I spoke at their dinner recently, and I sat through a corporate sponsor package where, you know, it was like, thank you to our corporate sponsors. And it was literally like, Chevron logo with a pride flag, BP Oil logo with a pride flag. Like Shell Oil with a pride flag. It's like, you know, Hollywood is kind of similar in that way. So, you know, I would hope that we could actually push further left. That is my, like, genuine hope and desire and goal.
- [32:13]
Sami Roth
No, that makes sense. And on the capitalism sort of business side of Hollywood, to finally bring us to the thing that nominally gave me the idea to reach out and ask if I could talk with you. This campaign to try to get the Screen Actors Guild, sag, AFTRA pension fund to divest from fossil fuels, which you've signed on to the groups that are the environmental groups that are behind this campaign, they say that the SAG Producers Pension Plan has at least $100 million invested in fossil fuel companies according to its latest publicly available tax forms. Just in terms of getting the actual business of Hollywood here moving at least a little bit in the right direction, maybe this is an obvious one, but if you could talk a little bit about why you decided to sign onto this, why you think this matters, that would be awesome.
- [33:01]
Hannah Einbinder
Absolutely. I think it's similar to what I just said. I think we are just trying to put pressure on the fund managers to create some ideological cohesivity to try to be like, hey, let's be in lockstep on these things that we say we are about. I think, yeah, as you said, $100 million in fossil fuels and these stocks do not perform well. So it's a bad investment. Not that that comes close to mattering anywhere near the climate ramifications, but it's, it's, it's just bad all the way around. And we don't, we don't need it, we don't need these investments. And yeah, like you said, I think it's, it's just obvious to probably your listeners the way it is obvious to you and I that it's just not right. And we can't, you know, we cannot call ourselves like, we cannot call Hollywood a liberal institution if it, if it invests in fossil fuels and, you know, subjugates the working class members of this institution to like shitty conditions and like bad hours and you know, like all of these things that need to still change. So it's like, you know, it's an uphill battle, but we gotta, you know, pick these battles and fight them.
- [34:15]
Sami Roth
Yeah, you know, I was reminded, I mean, it's an obvious quote, but it was from Studio 60, the Aaron Sorkin show. He wrote the line, hollywood isn't run by liberals. Hollywood is run by companies or businesses or something super straightforward. But it's like, well, yeah, okay, easy to call that one that holds true.
- [34:32]
Hannah Einbinder
It's true. And especially now, I think there's been like a huge, I don't want to use the word exodus, but like a lot of people from tech have come to Hollywood to run companies and we're seeing that sort of infinite growth model here which is kind of the enemy of art, I think. So yeah, we're just like fighting a lot of crazy stuff, AI, which obviously you know about the climate ramifications of all of that.
- [35:02]
Sami Roth
Oh, yes, all of the electricity use and people keeping coal plants open and building new gas plants that's a. Honestly, it's such a big thing that I haven't been able to really even fully wrap my arms around it. I've been afraid of doing stories about it because it's like too much new stuff to learn. It's kind of terrifying.
- [35:18]
Hannah Einbinder
I just. Oh God. It's horror. It's utter horror. I. And you know, I appreciate this podcast, Sammy, because I listen to it and I feel like I'm. Knowledge is power and I'm arming myself with all of these things. But my God, I mean, I just. I mean. So I know you were saying something. Sorry. Now I have a question for you, which is I know you were saying that you blow off steam by subtweeting, but how do you. How do you. Someone who is so like, elbows deep in this at all times, like, how do you wrap your head around this? How do you stay focused and just how do you feel?
- [36:06]
Sami Roth
It's a good question and I get asked it frequently and I've never had a great answer. I think I'm just sort of a congenitally optimistic person. Despite all the bad stuff, I somehow maintain the belief that we'll figure it out eventually. I take out most of my anger on the Dodgers.
- [36:28]
Hannah Einbinder
I love that episode that you did about the Phillips 66.
- [36:34]
Sami Roth
And when I say I take my anger out on the Dodgers, I mean when they play badly. Yes, of course. Not for climate related reasons, although some of that, but no. And also just the fact that it's my full time job, I think actually helps that I'm focused on this stuff. I feel like I'm in my small way that's frequently hard to measure. I do feel like I'm doing something about it and that helps. And I think everyone has a part to play. I don't think it has to be your full time profession or occupation. You're doing your part as an advocate through your platform and through your voice and through the stories that you're telling. And I think everyone has some version of that that they can do, whether it's big or small. And that's not gonna make everyone feel great or feel okay. I mean, it doesn't just make it suddenly not hard or easy, but that's what works for me. So, you know, again, maybe not the most satisfying answer, but somehow I skate by with that.
- [37:31]
Hannah Einbinder
It's true and it is satisfying. And I too connect to the feeling of like, action is helpful. You know, I think if I was stewing and doing nothing, I'd feel way crazier.
- [37:45]
Sami Roth
Well, and I identify with knowledge as power. And maybe this is a good last question for you. One, I appreciate that you listened to the podcast, so thank you for that. But besides that, where do you turn to for information about climate? Like, what's your news feed or your news diet look like? Where are you consuming information? What would you recommend for folks?
- [38:02]
Hannah Einbinder
Well, I really love democracy now. You know, sometimes I think a lot of stories that I end up reading are on the Guardian. I really like the Guardian.
- [38:11]
Sami Roth
They do really good climate coverage.
- [38:13]
Hannah Einbinder
Yeah, the Guardian, I think, is probably my. More like my most primary climate resource. I think they do a lot of stuff on, you know, plastic and all of these other issues that feel connected to climate. Yeah, I mean, I think also, like, documentaries. Great love. And also I include this in my education, which is like nature documentation. Like, you know, David Attenborough, the Legend, obviously, you know, I think one of his latest ones was. Was kind of more personal and relative to, like, his experience of nature as the climate crisis has worsened. And yeah, I think, like, that any, like, nature education, you know, whether that's like, natural, you know, forest stuff or, you know, ocean stuff or, you know, like, anything around, like, mycology, I think that's also. That also helps my climate education. Like, there's like, a mushroom that they are engineering to eat. Plastic. I mean, mushrooms are the answer, guys, okay? This is a huge and important. There are mushrooms growing at Chernobyl, okay? They are. They store carbon in the earth. They clean it, they break things down. You know, it's like, please, we need to focus on mushrooms. I'm telling you, we need to put psychedelic mushrooms in the water in Washington. We need to drop spores, okay? Over landfills. Somebody get on that. How are we still doing landfills, you guys? This is our solution. Big trash hole. You're kidding me.
- [40:08]
Sami Roth
I promise you, if and when we do an episode on mushrooms, we'll do the mycology episode. I'll have you back on. You can.
- [40:15]
Hannah Einbinder
Oh, my God, yes, my life. Please do that. Oh, my God, it would be so awesome. Oh, my God, that would be so awesome. I'm telling you, like, they. They hold the key, man. Okay? We gotta freaking trust the fungi to clean up this place, man. I'm telling you.
- [40:32]
Sami Roth
With my usual disclaimer that there is no one answer to climate change and we need a silver buckshot, not silver bullet. You heard it from Hannah Einbinder. Mushrooms are the answer. Hannah, thank you very much for being with us on the Boiling Point podcast.
- [40:43]
Hannah Einbinder
Thanks, Sa.
- [40:49]
Sami Roth
So as for those plural mushrooms, Cambridge dictionary says it's fungi, but Merriam Webster says fungi and fungi are both correct. Unfortunately, I did not have time to go consult an actual mycologist. Sorry about that. Maybe someday thank you for listening to Boiling Point. I'm your host, Sammy Roth. My producers are Mary Knoff and Jonathan Shiflett. Sound design and original music by Jonathan Shiflett. Elijah Wolfson is our editor. Denise Callahan is our studio manager. Ben Church is our production manager. Nick Norton is our engineer. Special thanks to LA Times Studio President Anna Magzanyan, President and Chief Operating Officer of the Los Angeles Angeles Times, Chris Argentieri and Executive Editor of the Los Angeles Times, Terry Tang. Boiling Point is executive produced by Darius Derek Shawn and created by me, Sami Roth.
- [42:04]
Hannah Einbinder
My name is Madison McGee. From LA Times Studios comes its latest series, LA Crimes. From deep dives into the Menendez brothers to conversations about why Bravo TV seems to be a hotbed of white collar criminals, we'll cover it all. We'll speak with LA Times reporters and others in the true crime industry to put a lens not just on these cases, but on our own culture's fascination with them and what that says about us. Tune in every Wednesday wherever you stream your podcast.