Traffic, Trains and Trade-Offs

Boiling Point

Published: Thu Apr 17 2025

California’s climate goals demand a radical rethink of how we build — and how we move. Carter Rubin of the NRDC breaks down the promise and peril of permitting reform, why it’s so hard to build climate-friendly cities, and what it’ll take to get Angelenos out of their cars.

Summary

Boiling Point: Traffic, Trains and Trade-Offs

Episode Release Date: April 17, 2025
Host: Sammy Roth, Climate Columnist for the Los Angeles Times
Guest: Carter Rubin, Director of State Transportation Advocacy, Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC)

Introduction: California’s Transportation and Climate Challenges

In the episode titled "Traffic, Trains and Trade-Offs," host Sammy Roth delves into California's intricate relationship between transportation infrastructure and climate change. Despite California's reputation as a climate-friendly state, persistent issues such as congested freeways, gasoline-dependent vehicles, and sprawling suburbs continue to exacerbate the state’s carbon footprint. Roth emphasizes the urgent need to reimagine urban landscapes like Los Angeles and the San Francisco Bay Area by enhancing public transit, increasing housing density near transit hubs, expanding electric vehicle infrastructure, and reducing traffic congestion on major highways like the 405.

Permitting Reform: Shovel Ready vs. Shovel Worthy

Roth introduces Carter Rubin from the NRDC to discuss the state's legislative focus on permitting reform—a process aimed at easing construction approvals for projects like wind farms, housing developments, and transit systems. Rubin clarifies the distinction between "shovel ready" and "shovel worthy" projects:

Carter Rubin [04:24]: "We certainly would not support streamlining highway expansion or sprawl development that impacts ecosystems. It's really important that the legislature focuses on shovel worthy projects, not just shovel ready projects."

Rubin explains that while accelerating construction can address immediate climate and housing needs, it must not come at the expense of environmental degradation or community disruption. The challenge lies in ensuring that permitting reforms prioritize projects that align with California's climate and clean air goals, avoiding the perpetuation of outdated infrastructure priorities like fossil fuel highways.

The Iron Law of Traffic Congestion: Interstate 80 Case Study

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the ongoing expansion of Interstate 80 (I-80) near Sacramento and Davis. Rubin critiques the planned widening of the Yolo Causeway section from six to eight lanes, arguing that it will ultimately lead to increased traffic congestion rather than alleviating it. He cites the "iron law of traffic congestion," which posits that adding lanes temporarily eases traffic but ultimately attracts more drivers, returning congestion to its original state or worse.

Carter Rubin [11:17]: "What we know happens is in the short term, people see that traffic's flowing a little bit better... until we just end up back where we started."

Rubin highlights NRDC's legal challenge against Caltrans' flawed environmental analysis for the I-80 expansion, pointing out inadequate mitigation efforts for the additional traffic and the lack of exploration of alternative solutions that promote public transit and reduce car dependency.

Investing in Public Transit: Capital Corridor and Future Prospects

Rubin contrasts the detrimental effects of highway expansions with the benefits of investing in public transit. He lauds existing projects like the Capital Corridor commuter rail service, which, despite operating with polluting diesel locomotives, exemplifies the potential for effective transit solutions when prioritized correctly.

Carter Rubin [13:06]: "If Caltrans had its priorities right, it would have thought through... electrify our rail system so that the trains are cleaner and they can travel faster."

He envisions a future where electrified, high-capacity rail systems replace congested freeways, offering reliable and environmentally friendly alternatives for both passengers and freight. Rubin underscores the importance of robust transit infrastructure in reducing greenhouse gas emissions and improving quality of life by decreasing reliance on personal vehicles.

Wilshire Subway Extension: A Catalyst for Change

Roth and Rubin discuss the Wilshire subway extension, a crucial urban transit project set to connect Koreatown to Westwood. Rubin praises the project as potentially transformative for Los Angeles, facilitating rapid transit between major hubs and fostering a shift in the city’s mobility paradigm.

Carter Rubin [26:18]: "The Wilshire is the one project that I think people are like underestimating... It is going to remap what people think about mobility in the region."

Despite decades of delays due to technical, financial, and political challenges, the Wilshire extension represents a major step toward a transit-oriented future. Rubin asserts that completing this project will demonstrate Los Angeles's commitment to sustainable transportation and set a precedent for future infrastructure endeavors.

Housing and Transit: Fostering Sustainable Communities

Addressing the intersection of housing and transportation, Rubin emphasizes the importance of Transit-Oriented Development (TOD) in combating California's housing crisis while promoting sustainable living. Programs like Los Angeles' Transit Oriented Communities (TOC) incentivize the construction of higher-density, affordable housing near transit stations, creating a synergistic relationship between increased housing availability and enhanced public transit usage.

Carter Rubin [32:55]: "If we all work together and if we're in a kind of zero sum thinking where, well, I don't want to contribute to the solution because I don't think my neighboring city is going to do it, that's when we get stuck."

Rubin advocates for expanding such programs, highlighting voter support for transit and housing initiatives as evidence that communities are receptive to these sustainable development models.

Overcoming NIMBYism: Community Support and Electoral Backing

Contrary to the common perception of widespread NIMBY (Not In My Backyard) opposition, Rubin points to strong electoral support for transit and housing projects in California. He cites multiple instances where voters have approved significant tax measures and infrastructure projects, demonstrating community backing for sustainable development.

Carter Rubin [33:34]: "Voters in LA county have approved taxing ourselves four times to build public transit... That's right. And in LA City, voters recently approved the Healthy Streets LA measure..."

Rubin explains that while individual projects may face localized opposition, the broader electorate tends to favor investments in public transit and housing, indicating a collective willingness to embrace change for the greater environmental and social good.

Environmental Justice: Repairing Past Harms and Building Equitable Infrastructure

The conversation also touches on the importance of addressing historical environmental injustices, such as the construction of freeways through marginalized communities. Rubin underscores the need to prioritize infrastructure projects that not only advance climate goals but also rectify past harms by enhancing community well-being and reducing pollution exposure.

Carter Rubin [22:39]: "One of the things that I would prioritize in terms of our transportation investments going forward is repairing the harms of the past."

Initiatives like the Reconnecting Communities program exemplify efforts to reinvest in neighborhoods affected by highway construction, focusing on improving air quality, expanding green spaces, and ensuring that new developments support the health and prosperity of existing residents.

Conclusion: A Path Forward for California’s Climate and Transportation Goals

In wrapping up the discussion, Roth and Rubin highlight the critical need for California to accelerate the transition to sustainable transportation systems. By prioritizing public transit, implementing thoughtful permitting reforms, and fostering Transit-Oriented Development, California can significantly reduce its transportation-related greenhouse gas emissions and enhance the quality of life for its residents.

Rubin remains optimistic about the state’s progress, noting that collaborative efforts between government, communities, and advocacy groups are paving the way for a more sustainable and equitable transportation future.

Notable Quotes:

Carter Rubin [04:24]: "We have to make sure it's the kinds of projects that are helping get Californians get around more affordably... without the impacts on ecosystems and neighborhoods."
Carter Rubin [11:17]: "The iron law of traffic congestion since the 1960s... people adjust their driving behavior until the road is back at full capacity."
Carter Rubin [26:18]: "The Wilshire is the one project that I think people are like underestimating... It is going to remap what people think about mobility in the region."
Carter Rubin [33:34]: "Voters in LA county have approved taxing ourselves four times to build public transit... they really like this stuff, they vote for housing bonds, they vote for transit infrastructure."

This episode of Boiling Point provides a comprehensive exploration of the complex interplay between transportation infrastructure, housing, and climate change in California. Through insightful dialogue with Carter Rubin, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the challenges and opportunities in creating a sustainable and equitable transportation system that meets the state's climate goals.