Chapter 2 | Don't Know Diddly

Summary

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Bone Valley: Earwitness | Chapter 2 – "Don't Know Diddly"

Podcast: Bone Valley – Earwitness
Host/Reporter: Beth Shelburne
Date: February 4, 2026

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Overview of Episode

In this episode, investigative journalist Beth Shelburne continues unraveling the 1995 murder case of Deputy Sheriff William Hardy in Birmingham, Alabama, and the conviction of Toforest Johnson, who claims innocence. This chapter, "Don't Know Diddly," dives deep into the chaotic days immediately following Hardy’s murder, focusing on police interrogation tactics, shifting witness statements—especially from teenager Yolanda Chambers—and the pressure investigators felt to solve a cop’s murder. Shelburne scrutinizes how the narrative was built on inconsistent and often contradictory testimony from a key teenager, raising troubling questions about the investigation’s integrity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Immediate Aftermath of the Murder and Police Pressure

• Atmosphere of urgency and grief in Birmingham after Deputy Hardy’s murder. Officers wore black mourning bands, and the funeral drew hundreds in sweltering heat (04:03–04:41).
• Detective Tony Richardson leads the investigation, feeling personal and community pressure to “get this done.”
  • Quote: “You want somebody in custody. The lieutenant is telling me we need to get this done. The captain is telling the lieutenant... the sheriff is telling the captain...” (07:04)
• Investigation stalls with only two shell casings and vague vehicle descriptions; community tips flood in after a $20K reward is announced (07:23–08:17).

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2. The Rosa and Yolanda Chambers Tip

• Richardson receives what he calls his biggest lead: Rosa Hardy, a friend of the victim, says her daughter Yolanda knows the killer (08:17–13:53).
  • Key quote from Rosa relayed by Richardson:
    “She told me, she says, my daughter knows who killed Bill.” (13:35)
• Yolanda, 15, is initially hard to locate—a “semi runaway”—but is found and brought in for questioning (13:57–14:24).

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3. First Interrogations—The Shifting Testimony of Yolanda (15:05–25:46)

• Yolanda tells police she, friend Latonya, and two older men (Ardragas “Dre” Ford and Toforest Johnson—whom she misnames “Carlos”) met up late at night. She claims Dre told her they "smoked a cop," which shocks her and Latonya.
• The age dynamic is troubling: 21 and 22-year-old men picking up 15 and 16-year-old girls they met at a club (16:08).
• Their plan to party is interrupted at a motel when police, searching cars near the crime scene, stop them. Toforest is arrested for a misdemeanor and held briefly (18:39–20:14).
• Breaks in the tape: Each time the recorder is stopped, Yolanda’s story shifts to fit police theories—first about what day events happened, then motives, then who was involved (20:24–25:46).
  • Beth notes: “With every restart of the tape, Richardson gets a story that lines up more and more with the first facts surrounding Hardy’s murder.” (23:50)
  • First it was revenge for arrest, then a botched robbery.

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4. Investigator Reflections on Interrogation

• Richardson admits applying different pressures:
  • Quote: “Sometimes we’d have to be stern... sometimes we’d have to be soft. Whatever will work to get this information out of her.” (25:24)
• He can’t explain the reason for stopping the recorder, but insists nothing “sinister” happened.
  • Quote: “Best practice is not to go off the record…” (26:04); “It didn’t stop so something sinister could happen, I can tell you that.” (26:10–26:34)

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5. Suspects’ Interrogations: Contradictions Exposed

• Antonio Green, Toforest’s cousin, describes police searching his house as intimidating and aggressive:
  • "They've already came in both doors...I'm thinking, this must be something serious..." (29:20–30:01)
• Toforest and Ardregas’ stories (and Latonya’s) about the night align with each other and with Yolanda’s first version—that they tried to get a motel room and were stopped by police. None except Yolanda mention the murder (35:27; 35:45).

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6. Yolanda’s Second Statement—A Radical Shift

• Second police interview: Yolanda says she was actually present at the scene of Hardy’s murder, further implicating everyone in the car (38:43–46:31).
  • After a 40-minute break off-tape, police ask if her previous story was true:
    • “No, it’s not the truth.” (39:55–40:01)
    • “I was there when it went down.” (40:23)
  • Now she claims they all drove to the Crown Sterling Suites, met with two new suspects, and saw the murder happen. Details change to match police knowledge—time, parking location, sequence.
  • She describes seeing gunshots, blood on Toforest’s hands, and suspects heading back from the crime scene (45:30–46:31).
  • The tape is stopped and restarted multiple times, with Yolanda’s story shifting each time to align with what police surmise.

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7. Police Response to Inconsistencies

• Even Detective Richardson is skeptical:
  • “Did I believe everything Yolanda told me? No. Hell, no...But Yolanda told a lot of truth while she was trying to hide it by telling lies.” (46:51)
  • He justifies trusting some of Yolanda’s ever-changing story by explaining cops use their experience to sort through lies (47:13).

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8. Disputing Yolanda’s Account

• Other suspects (Latonya, Toforest, Ardregas) flatly deny Yolanda’s version when confronted:
  • Latonya: “That’s a lie. That’s a shame. Okay, so Yolanda’s lying…Well then I didn’t go and I’m telling the truth.” (48:39–49:03)
  • Toforest, under pressure: “I told you all that I can tell you. That’s all I know…I didn’t do it. I was not there.” (50:00–50:56)
• Despite these denials, police double down on their emerging theory, built mainly on Yolanda’s accounts.

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9. Reflection and Foreshadowing

• Beth remarks that Yolanda would be interviewed at least 25 times, and “every time they talk to her, her story will change.” (50:56)
• Raises central question: Why did police lean on Yolanda’s shifting story to build their case?
• Teased for next episode: “Who is Yolanda Chambers?”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“Anybody that was not there when I was there…Don’t know diddly about this case.”
— Tony Richardson (10:11)

“With every restart of the tape, Richardson gets a story that lines up more and more with the first facts surrounding Hardy’s murder.”
— Beth Shelburne (23:50)

“Did I believe everything Yolanda told me? No. Hell, no. Hell, no. But Yolanda told a lot of truth, while she was trying to hide it by telling lies.”
— Tony Richardson (46:51)

“You gonna make me say I did it. I did not do it. I was not there.”
— Toforest Johnson (50:36)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Police pressure and investigation urgency: (03:32–07:23)
• The Rosa and Yolanda tip emerges: (08:17–13:39)
• Initial Yolanda interrogation: (14:24–25:46)
• Richardson on tape interruptions: (26:04–26:34)
• Suspect interviews—contradictions: (35:55–37:04)
• Second Yolanda confession—she claims to have been present: (38:43–46:31)
• Confronting suspects with Yolanda’s new story: (48:37–50:56)

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Tone & Language

Beth Shelburne’s reporting is measured yet urgent, blending skepticism with compassion as she parses police files, witness tapes, and direct interviews. The cops’ tone is a mix of procedural, defensive, and frustrated. The episode is tense, intimate, and often somber.

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Conclusion

This episode exposes the volatility at the heart of the official murder case against Toforest Johnson: a narrative pushed forward by desperate investigators, shaped around a 15-year-old whose story shifted to fit expectations. Shelburne invites listeners to consider not only the inconsistencies but also the human cost of building a murder case on such unstable ground.

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Next Episode Preview:
Why did police keep relying on Yolanda Chambers, a shifting, unreliable witness? Who is she? The investigation into her background and what prompted her changing stories continues next time.

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Transcript

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[Yolanda Chambers]

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[Beth Shelburn]

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[Yolanda Chambers]

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[Beth Shelburn]

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[Yolanda Chambers]

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[Beth Shelburn]

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[Beth Shelburn]

Last time on Ear Witness.

[Sergeant Salter]

Yes ma' am this is Barry from crowd stealing seats hotel again I have.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

A pit what appears to be a.

[Sergeant Salter]

Jefferson county police officer shot in the back of our he is not moving.

[Yolanda Chambers]

He has been shot and it looks bad.

[Sergeant Salter]

And then I just heard one say that's it it's over. We can't do anymore. It's over. We can't save him. He's gone.

[Yolanda Chambers]

Tavares Johnson I remember he was pushing.

[Beth Shelburn]

A drinkers four in the wheelchair.

[Antonio Green]

They came together.

[Yolanda Chambers]

I had saw tafares pushing a drakers in the club.

[Sergeant Salter]

I just had to do signs up and I left.

[Beth Shelburn]

And he was still there.

[Sergeant Salter]

Yeah, he was still there when I left.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

A deputy sheriff working another deputy sheriff's murder. Do you think that was emotional? Yes, it was very. And had it been my decision the day we caught the people that did it. Let's put them on death throat.

[Beth Shelburn]

The murder of deputy Bill Hardy behind the Crown Sterling Suites hotel was the top news Story in Birmingham on July 19, 1995, and police are looking for a cop killer. Someone shot 49 year old William Hardy.

[Yolanda Chambers]

Several times in the hair.

[Sergeant Salter]

It's a slow start, but investigators are throwing everything they have behind the case.

[Beth Shelburn]

The TV news footage shows deputies wearing the traditional black band over their badges, A gesture that expresses grief for a fellow officer.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

We're somber, we're sad, but we know we have a job to do and we're determined to do that job.

[Sergeant Salter]

This is a very difficult night for William Hardy's family. The Hardy home is full of sorrow and pain as they search for answers to a senseless crime.

[Beth Shelburn]

A week after the murder, hundreds of people turn out for deputy Hardy's funeral. Thank you, my brothers.

[Antonio Green]

Thank you, my brothers.

[Beth Shelburn]

Video footage of the funeral shows women in dresses fanning themselves. It's summer in Alabama, a swampy 97 degrees. Someone actually faints in the heat.

[Sergeant Salter]

We are still alive.

[Antonio Green]

We all have to do what Bill has already done.

[Beth Shelburn]

Amen. The church is packed, but at least one longtime colleague of Hardy's isn't at the service.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

I didn't make the funeral. We worked this case so hard and we were so determined to get a resolution. I was working. I didn't make his funeral.

[Beth Shelburn]

Tony Richardson is the lead detective on the case. A prosecutor who used to work with Richardson tells me he's a thorough investigator, a man who gets the job done. But this case is different from any other he's worked before. He's investigating the murder of someone he knows, someone he likes, someone he worked with for almost two decades.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

When you got a deputy sheriff killed over here is high profile and people are expecting things out here. Not only you, you know, you emotional, you want to find the people that did this, you want somebody in custody.

[Beth Shelburn]

In the immediate hours after deputy Hardy's murder, Detective Tony Richardson and his investigators interviewed Marshall Kelly Cummings, the Keebler cookie guy who heard the shots and saw someone drive away. They also interview the front desk clerk at the hotel, Barry Rushakoff, and other people staying at the Crown Sterling Suites who heard voices in the parking lot followed by gunshots. No one they talked to says they actually saw the murder. Just a few witnesses heard the gunshots and then saw a car pull away. The lead evidence technician, who's actually Tony Richardson's brother, Deputy Charlie Richardson. Richardson finds two 9 millimeter shell casings at the scene. A ballistics expert will later say that both casings came from the same gun. And that's pretty much all they have to go on. Police sweep the surrounding area and pull over any vehicles loosely matching descriptions from hotel guests, but it doesn't get them very far.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

Not only do you want somebody in custody, the lieutenant is telling me we need to get this done. The captain is telling the lieutenant we need to get this done. The sheriff is telling the captain, we need to get this done.

[Beth Shelburn]

Nine hours after Hardy is killed, the sheriff's department announces a reward for information. The reward amount would eventually grow to $20,000. Adjusted for inflation, that's about 40 grand today. And once a tip line is announced, the phones start ringing. One caller says a guy known as Big man told him his cousin was involved. Another says a member of the Disciples gang carried out the murder. Officers sift through this information, trying to decipher what's worth pursuing and which callers might be pranks or people just interested in the reward money. Days go by, and they still don't have a suspect. And then Detective Richardson speaks to a woman named Rosa Hardy. And what she tells him eclipses every other lead he has.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

And she told me, she says, my daughter knows who killed Bill.

[Yolanda Chambers]

Do you hear my man? Laughter hides my fears Tears Sorrow's deps are endless in this valley of tears I want to see a revelation.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

I.

[Yolanda Chambers]

Want to know who you are up I'm reaching out in desperation to the one who's holding the stars to the one who's holding the star.

[Beth Shelburn]

I'm beth shelburn. This is ear witness. Chapter two. Don't know diddley.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

Anybody that was not there when I was there Anybody that was not there when Hardy was shot don't know diddly about this case.

[Beth Shelburn]

When I first got the enormous trove of records in the investigative file, I spent hours and hours just staring at my computer, overwhelmed by thousands of pages of documents. Right away, I knew I wanted to talk to Tony Richardson, the lead investigator in Hardy's murder. His name is on most of the police reports, and it's his voice we hear on a lot of the interrogation.

[Sergeant Salter]

Tapes, short of Tony Richardson, Jefferson County Sheriff's Office.

[Beth Shelburn]

Today's date is when I first call him for an interview. He says it would be best not to talk with me. But Richardson keeps talking for 25 minutes. It seems like he's got a lot on his mind. Two weeks later, he agrees to go on the record.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

Listen, I've decided I'm going to speak with you concerning your podcast.

[Beth Shelburn]

Great. I'm really glad to hear that. My producer, Mara, and I meet him in a conference room of a local library. Hi, how are you?

[Detective Tony Richardson]

How y' all Doing?

[Beth Shelburn]

I'm Beth. Tony. This is Mara. Nice to meet you, too. We were gonna have you sit here just so he's dressed casually. Jeans, a black sweatshirt, a US Marines ball cap, and a toothpick he keeps in his mouth the entire interview.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

Somebody, when they hear this, they're gonna be questioning my integrity, you know? Is this guy telling the truth, or is he just telling a story? So I'll talk you to death. Let's get started.

[Beth Shelburn]

When Detective Tony Richardson first gets that tip from Rosa Hardy, he goes over to the Ford dealership where she works as a receptionist.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

I was always pretty thorough. I wrote everything down.

[Beth Shelburn]

He writes in a report that Rosa Hardy told an officer that her daughter had information concerning the crime. The police report reads, Ms. Hardy told us that after she arrived for work at 12 noon of 7:19, she heard a police officer had been killed. She bought a newspaper and learned the victim was someone she and her family knew personally. Rosa knew Deputy Hardy and his wife. They have the same last name, but they're not related. They were good friends. The report goes on to say that Rosa's daughter, Yolanda Chambers, called her at work. Rosa told her that the officer that had been killed was Bill Hardy. According to Rosa, her daughter Yolanda responded, mama, I didn't know it was him. And then Yolanda went on to say she knew who killed him.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

She says, my daughter knows who killed Bill.

[Sergeant Salter]

Well, great.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

Will she talk to me? I don't know. She kind of reluctant. She don't want to do it. I'm trying to get her to do it. And I was just begging her, you know, let's figure out a way to get her in. We need her.

[Beth Shelburn]

But Rosa isn't sure where Yolanda is.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

I think at the time, Yolanda was a semi runaway or whatever, but she wasn't there. Okay, so we worked very hard with mom to get Yolanda in.

[Beth Shelburn]

Later that evening, Rosa calls the sheriff's office and says Yolanda is at her apartment. And that's where Richardson picks her up. He brings Yolanda to sheriff's headquarters for questioning.

[Sergeant Salter]

Sergeant Tony Richardson, Jefferson County Sheriff's Office. Today's date is July 24, 1995. The time is 11:20pm I'm at the sheriff's office headquarters along with Officer James Blanton of the Birmingham Police Department and Yolanda Michelle Chambers. Yolanda is a Black female. She's 15 years of age. Again, what I want to talk to.

[Beth Shelburn]

You about is Yolanda is by herself in a room with detectives and a tape recorder.

[Sergeant Salter]

So I guess the Best way for us to proceed is for you to tell me first of all, when you learned that Deputy Hardy had been killed.

[Yolanda Chambers]

All right, if I'm not mistaken, it was a Friday. Me and one of my girlfriends, her name is Latonya. Me and her and two guys were supposed to hook up that night. And, you know, they're older than us. One is 21. They call him Dre. He's in a wheelchair.

[Beth Shelburn]

Dre is our Dragus Ford's nickname. And for some reason in this interview, Yolanda refers to Taforest as Carlos.

[Yolanda Chambers]

He has a brother named Carlos. So we, you know, we were supposed to hook up, you know, after they left his.

[Beth Shelburn]

Taforest and Ardregas are not related, and Taforest's nickname has never been Carlos. It's unclear why Yolanda refers to him this way, but she tells police that Ardregas called her around 2am he and Taforest had left T's place and were on their way to pick her up.

[Yolanda Chambers]

You know, they be on time. They call us roundabout, two or three, you know, be like, come on.

[Beth Shelburn]

Ardregas asks Yolanda to bring along a friend for Ta Forest. So after they pick up Yolanda, they all drive to pick up her friend Latonya Henderson, who lives a few minutes away. I want to take a moment to address the age gap between Taforest, Ardragas and the girls they're picking up. Taforest is 22, Ardregas is 21, Latonya is 16, and Yolanda is 15. To Forest and Ardregas met Yolanda and Latonya at a nightclub two nights prior to picking them up after teas. It's likely that the girls lied about their age to get into the club where they met. But I don't know if Taforest and Ardregas knew how old they were. I don't even know if it came up. The age of consent in Alabama is 16. But regardless, guys in their early 20s picking up teenage girls, it's just problematic.

[Yolanda Chambers]

Him and Carlos came and got me and we went on, headed to West End park, pick Latonya.

[Beth Shelburn]

Yolanda says that once they get to Latonya's house, it takes a while for Latonya to get ready.

[Yolanda Chambers]

We had to wait on Latonya about 40 minutes to get ready, take her bath and stuff because she didn't have on no clothes.

[Beth Shelburn]

Latonya finally sneaks out of her bedroom window to meet them. Once the girls are in the car, Yolanda says that something is off and our Dragis seems nervous.

[Yolanda Chambers]

You know, and I like, what's wrong?

[Advertiser]

What's wrong?

[Yolanda Chambers]

We just gotta get to the room. We need to, you know, go somewhere and just chill out.

[Beth Shelburn]

So.

[Yolanda Chambers]

You know, they were riding around. You know, we were talking. Let me smoke the cop.

[Beth Shelburn]

According to Yolanda, Ardregas says the other guy in the car with them, Taforest had smoked a cop, me.

[Yolanda Chambers]

And the same was like, huh. You know, at first we thought they was, like, playing y' all got us in the car with y' all and y' all and did some, did a crime.

[Beth Shelburn]

Somehow. This revelation that Taforest and Ardregis were supposedly just involved in the murder of a police officer doesn't deter their plans. She says the four of them drive off to look for a hotel room.

[Yolanda Chambers]

We rode around in Homewood. First we went to the Fairfield Inn.

[Beth Shelburn]

But she says the Fairfield Inn was booked solid. And so they head across the street to the Super 8 motel.

[Yolanda Chambers]

So when we went right across to the Super 8, a whole lot of cops came from notice. Sheriffs and everything just came. And, you know, they had everybody get out the car.

[Beth Shelburn]

It's there in the Super 8 parking lot that officers tell the group they're investigating the murder of a deputy who was shot and killed earlier that night a few miles away at the Crown Sterling Suites Hotel. Remember, officers were on the lookout for cars in the vicinity of the crime scene. And this is why they pull in behind the Monte Carlo in the Super 8 parking lot. One of the officers later testifies that he tried to extract Rodregas from the car before learning that he's paralyzed. The officer makes Taforest get out of the car, put his hands on the trunk while he pats him down, then looks inside the Monte Carlo with his flashlight. He finds nothing suspicious and decides to let everyone go except Taforest because he has a misdemeanor warrant for driving without a license. So police take Tiforest to the Birmingham City Jail, and he bonds out later that afternoon. Meanwhile, Ardregas license is expired, so police won't let him drive home. And he leaves the Monte Carlo in the Super 8 parking lot. He and the girls get a cab to go home, and Yolanda crashes at a friend's house. She says she calls her mom later that morning.

[Yolanda Chambers]

I called my mom this next morning. She said, yes, but you know, that bill is big. I say.

[Beth Shelburn]

That click. It's the sound of an officer turning the tape recorder off. We don't know what's being said between Yolanda and investigators when the tape is stopped. But Yolanda's first interview isn't over. The tape starts rolling again.

[Sergeant Salter]

Okay, go ahead.

[Yolanda Chambers]

Yeah, I was telling my mom about it, and she said, yolanda, you know the police officer got killed last night. I was like, yeah, okay, let me.

[Sergeant Salter]

Stop you again, okay? Because I want to make sure that we get it on the record. Now, you have already mentioned in your statement that this was a Friday, it.

[Yolanda Chambers]

Was a Tuesday, because that's when they have happy hour. Yeah. The night before.

[Sergeant Salter]

What time?

[Yolanda Chambers]

It was going on Wednesday morning, around about 2.

[Beth Shelburn]

Yolanda says that Carlos, remember that's what she's calling to Forrest, told her the time that he shot Deputy Hardy.

[Yolanda Chambers]

But, yes, it did have him around about 12. Around that hour.

[Sergeant Salter]

Who told you that?

[Detective Tony Richardson]

12:30.

[Yolanda Chambers]

Carlos.

[Beth Shelburn]

And then Yolanda suggests a potential motive. She says Deputy Hardy had arrested Taforest before and that's why he supposedly shot him.

[Yolanda Chambers]

You know, because I think B had arrested him or something before Carlos.

[Sergeant Salter]

Mm. You know where you arrested him at?

[Yolanda Chambers]

I think it had something to do while he went to prison.

[Beth Shelburn]

An officer turns the tape recorder off for a second time. When the tape resumes, Yolanda offers a different motive for Hardy's murder. Now, she says they killed him after an attempted robbery, and since Hardy had seen their faces, it just made sense to kill him.

[Yolanda Chambers]

The most things for them to do was kill him.

[Beth Shelburn]

In the last minutes of the interview, detectives ask Yolanda why are gone to the Crown Sterling Suites. And she says they wanted to get a room because they sell drugs. They ask her if she knows anybody else. These guys run with.

[Sergeant Salter]

These guys run with.

[Beth Shelburn]

Yolanda points to the photos of two other men in a stack that police show her. You hear Richardson say she has identified Omar Berry and Quintess Wilson.

[Sergeant Salter]

She has identified Quintess Wilson. This guy you're looking at, you know him as what?

[Yolanda Chambers]

Red.

[Sergeant Salter]

Okay. That's the photograph of Omar Berry.

[Beth Shelburn]

These two other young black men are added to their list of suspects. This first recorded interview lasts about 35 minutes. And right at the end, an officer asks Yolanda if anyone has made promises to her.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

They don't mean to promise us to.

[Sergeant Salter]

You about the statements you just made?

[Yolanda Chambers]

No. Just don't think, Kevin.

[Beth Shelburn]

She answers. No. Then we hear her say, the only thing y' all gonna. And then there's seven long seconds of silence.

[Sergeant Salter]

This is Sergeant Richardson. This is going to conclude this interview at this time, 11:55pm.

[Beth Shelburn]

I listened to this interview over and over again. And what stands out is that each time officers stop and then restart the tape, there's a Shift in Yolanda's story. At first, she says it was a Friday that she heard about Hardy's murder. Then after the tape stops and restarts, Richardson prompts her for the date and she corrects herself and says it was a Tuesday night going into Wednesday. With every restart of the tape, Richardson gets a story that lines up more and more with the first facts surrounding Hardy's murder. That he was shot on Wednesday morning behind the Crown Sterling at 12:50am and then there's the motives. Yolanda provides. First, that Taforest killed Hardy because Hardy had arrested him previously. But we know Hardy had not arrested Taforest. At the time of his death, Hardy worked in court services. His duties involved serving subpoenas and directing traffic outside the courthouse. I've seen zero evidence that Deputy Hardy ever came into contact with Taforest Johnson. After the tape stops and restarts, Yolanda gives a second motive. That the crime started as an attempted robbery that ends in Hardy's murder. I asked Tony Richardson about his approach with Yolanda.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

Yolanda was reluctant. She didn't want to talk. She didn't want. We had to keep at her. We had to pull, like pulling teeth, you know, Yolanda, we need this. And sometimes we'd have to be stern, you know, and firm, trying to shake her. You know, sometimes we'd have to be soft. Whatever will work to get this information out of her.

[Beth Shelburn]

There are a lot of stops and starts, and I wonder what is going on then, like, the tape stops and then it restarts.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

I couldn't tell you.

[Beth Shelburn]

When you go off the record with people, I mean, what. What is best practices for.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

Best practice if not. Is not to go off the record. That's the best practice. I mean, once you cut the tape on, unless the tape runs out and you changing the tape, you don't cut it off until you're done. There's no way I can tell you why the tape stopped. But I will tell you this. It didn't stop so something sinister could happen. I can tell you that.

[Beth Shelburn]

What would you do off the record, though?

[Detective Tony Richardson]

I mean, somebody could have wanted to go to the bathroom more, could have just motioned for a break or. Or could have even motioned to say, cut that thing off. You know, there's no way I can tell you why it was cut off. I. I can tell you there's nothing sinister here. There's. I mean, there's no smoking gun here as far as doing anything that was not above board. Never. Never occurred. Never happened. Never happened.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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[Detective Tony Richardson]

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[Sergeant Salter]

Lenovo. Lenovo.

[Beth Shelburn]

Why have we asked our contractor we found on Angie.com to be our kid's legal guardian? Because he took such good care when redoing our basement that we knew we could trust him to care for our kids, all eight of them, should something happen to us.

[Yolanda Chambers]

Are you my dad now?

[Antonio Green]

No, sorry.

[Beth Shelburn]

I do basements. Connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years.

[Sergeant Salter]

Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home [e-mail].

[Antonio Green]

It was early in the morning and I was just lounging around in my apartment, you know, and I had. My front door was open and where I was sitting, I could see out the door, and here I see just cars, unmarked cars.

[Beth Shelburn]

In July of 1995, Taforest and his cousin Antonio Green were living together. But on the morning of the 25th, Antonio is alone in their apartment when police cars pull up.

[Antonio Green]

I see him pulling up in the front lot in the back, and I'm like, oh, what's going on over here?

[Joyce Ford]

You know?

[Antonio Green]

Next thing I know, they're at my door and they asked, was Tafarus Johnson there? I said, no, no, he's been staying here. But while he asking me this, they've already came in both. Both doors. So they're already in my house. They're going down the hallway. So I'm thinking, now this, this must be something serious, you know, whatever it is. So the guy's telling me what's going on.

[Beth Shelburn]

Officers say they're looking for Taforest because they think he might know something about.

[Antonio Green]

A murder, something or when they said murder, that really just threw me all the way to the left. Cause violent. He was never violent. You know, rambunctious teenager, young kid doing what all of us were doing as far as partying and having a good time and all this. But violence, never. He was never a violent person.

[Beth Shelburn]

As officers walk through Antonio's house, his phone rings. It's his grandfather and he says, police are at his house too. Antonio hangs up and the phone rings again.

[Antonio Green]

The phone rang again. I answered it and it's him. It's DeForest. I said, hey, man, where you at? He said, I'm headed up there now. I said, yeah, there's folks looking for you anyway. Yeah, that's what I heard. I don't know what they want, but I'm finna go and see now. I'm going up there at the house now and see what they want. So he did.

[Beth Shelburn]

Taforest tells his cousin he has no idea why police want to talk to him, but he goes to meet with them at his grandfather's house.

[Antonio Green]

Grandfather's house. And I heard him over the radio say, we got him in custody and only then would they leave the house.

[Beth Shelburn]

Police take Taforest to sheriff's office headquarters for questioning. On the morning of July 25, the day after they first talked to Yolanda Chambers, Detective Tony Richardson and his partner Tom Salter asked Taforis to walk them through the evening of July 18, the hours leading up to Deputy Hardy's murder.

[Sergeant Salter]

What was you doing at five o' clock in the evening propped up by Gas World? Who would you have hung out to?

[Beth Shelburn]

Forrest. Ghost says that around 5pm he was getting his hair cut at a neighborhood spot called Gas World Park. Gas station. Part barbershop and nail salon, part convenience store. Afterwards, he met up with his little brother at his mom's apartment complex.

[Sergeant Salter]

You was hanging out outside up there? Yeah, we be outside up there on the little park or around walking. Just something that to do. Just try to find something to do.

[Beth Shelburn]

Trying to find something to do when there's nothing to do. As Tafores tells this to police, he has no way of knowing that he's describing one of his last few days of freedom.

[Sergeant Salter]

So you got somebody to take you home because you're hungry? Yeah. What'd you fix? It's a balloon. Had a bologna sandwich? Yes, I cooked me some bologna.

[Beth Shelburn]

He fries himself a bologna and cheese sandwich, plays Sega and listens to the radio.

[Sergeant Salter]

Listen to the radio. See, I think I stayed at home. The dragons came. I think I stayed there till he came to pick me up.

[Beth Shelburn]

He stays there until his Friend are Dragus Ford picks him up in his 1971 black Monte Carlo to go to T's place. While police ask to Forrest about the night Hardy was killed, others are out looking for Ardregas Ford. They knock on the door of his mom's house. Here's Joyce Ford.

[Joyce Ford]

3 o' clock that morning, I stayed in Central Park. Somebody knocked on the door and I said, who is it? And they said, jefferson County Sheriff, ma'.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

Am.

[Joyce Ford]

So I looked out the window. They were everywhere. I opened the door and I was kind of nervous. And they said, is a Dragons Ford home? I said, no. Then they said, well, can we come in? I said, I don't have anything to hide. You're welcome to come in, but do you have a search warrant? And they said no. I said, well, you can't come in. They said, well, we have some questions to ask and can you bring him in when he get home? And I told him when he got home, I told him what happened. And he said, yeah, Ma, I'll be glad to go.

[Beth Shelburn]

So Joyce drives our Dragis to the sheriff's office headquarters. On the morning of July 26, Detectives Richardson and Salter ask him what he was up to on the night of the murder. Richardson asks him what time he picked up to Forrest.

[Sergeant Salter]

First time you saw him? Tuesday was about 10 o' clock at night.

[Antonio Green]

About 10.

[Sergeant Salter]

About 10.

[Beth Shelburn]

Once they get to tease. Hardraguez says his beeper is going off all night. It's Yolanda Chambers.

[Sergeant Salter]

She had me in paging, but I wouldn't call her back. So after we left Teas, he had.

[Beth Shelburn]

Just met her the previous Sunday at another nightclub called the Jaguar. In separate interviews, both Taforest and Ardragas tell detectives they hung out at tees until past 1am catching up with old friends like Mama Cat and Quesi.

[Sergeant Salter]

We stood right there. We were fucking with that girl, Mama Cat, who I was telling you about Mama Cat and Quesie.

[Beth Shelburn]

But after they strike out at the club, Ardregas says he finally calls Yolanda around 2:30am.

[Sergeant Salter]

So I called her, told her I was gonna come get her.

[Beth Shelburn]

Ardregas says he and Taforest pick up Yolanda and then head to her friend Latonya's house. And just like Yolanda told police, he also says that Latonya doesn't come out to meet them right away. He remembers this clearly because it was kind of annoying.

[Sergeant Salter]

Took a long while to come out the house at this time of night. You know, we ain't got time to.

[Antonio Green]

Be waiting on nobody.

[Beth Shelburn]

Detectives also Bring Latonya Henderson in for questioning. She talks to a female officer without a parent or lawyer present and she says the same thing.

[Yolanda Chambers]

So Yolanda done pick you up around 3 o'?

[Detective Tony Richardson]

Clock?

[Yolanda Chambers]

My time I got in the car is around 3 3am in the morning.

[Beth Shelburn]

Okay, all four of them say they leave Latonya's house and try to get a room.

[Sergeant Salter]

Like I said, we pulled up at the Fairfield Inn. We went to the Fairfield first.

[Beth Shelburn]

Pull up in the fair field just like Yolanda says. They tell police that the Fairfield Inn is booked, so they head to the Super 8 Motel. This is where officers stopped them as part of their sweep of cars across Homewood. At this point, Ardragas, Taforest, Latonya and Yolanda have all independently described similar versions of the night to detectives, with one huge exception. No one in the car says they know anything about Deputy Hardy's murder. Except Yolanda.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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[Advertiser]

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[Beth Shelburn]

Fun.

[Advertiser]

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[Sergeant Salter]

Lenovo. Lenovo. Why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Hamster Nibbles in our yard for me?

[Sergeant Salter]

Because I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires, I.

[Beth Shelburn]

Knew I could trust him to bury my sweet Nibbles after his untimely end. Huh?

[Sergeant Salter]

Nibbles gone too soon.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

May he scurry in peace.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

Hey, sorry about your pet, but I just wire stuff.

[Beth Shelburn]

Nibbles would have loved you like a brother. Connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years.

[Sergeant Salter]

Angie the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home [e-mail] Today's date is July 26, 1995. The time is 12:37, two days after.

[Beth Shelburn]

Her first recorded interview with police, Yolanda Chambers is back in for questioning. At first, Yolanda tells a similar story to her first interview. That she heard Ardregas say that Taforest killed a cop.

[Sergeant Salter]

Did he say anything else?

[Yolanda Chambers]

No.

[Beth Shelburn]

The tape recorder is turned off. 40 minutes later they start recording again.

[Sergeant Salter]

Hey, Sergeant Richardson, I'm restarting the. The time is 20 minutes to 2. We took a short break. We gonna get started again. Yolanda, during our break time, we talked some about the. The incident or the case. Now, I want to ask you now what you have already told me during the times that I have interviewed you, is that the truth? No, it's not the truth?

[Yolanda Chambers]

No.

[Sergeant Salter]

Did any of that you told me, did any of that occur?

[Yolanda Chambers]

It occurred, but it was not nothing that I had heard.

[Sergeant Salter]

Okay, so are you telling me that you didn't get this second hand, that when this deputy was shot and killed that you.

[Yolanda Chambers]

No, I didn't get it secondhand. I was there.

[Sergeant Salter]

You were there?

[Yolanda Chambers]

I was there when it went down.

[Beth Shelburn]

She says she was actually there when Hardy was shot. And she's about to tell detectives a completely different version of what happened that night.

[Sergeant Salter]

Okay, tell me about that.

[Yolanda Chambers]

Well, when I told you that they were supposed to to come get me around by getting by 11:30, they did come and get me at the actual time.

[Beth Shelburn]

Yolanda now says that Taforest and Ardregas came to pick her up around 11:30pm instead of 2:00am you know, after they.

[Yolanda Chambers]

Came and got me, went and got the science, she was ready and.

[Sergeant Salter]

Wait a minute, you mean brought way right out?

[Yolanda Chambers]

Well, right on now.

[Beth Shelburn]

Okay, Yolanda says that Latonya hops right into the car instead of taking a long time to get ready.

[Sergeant Salter]

Did you know at the time where y' all were going?

[Yolanda Chambers]

Yeah.

[Sergeant Salter]

Where were you going?

[Yolanda Chambers]

To the Crown Sterling.

[Sergeant Salter]

Okay, so did y' all go to the Crown Sterling?

[Yolanda Chambers]

Yeah, we went. We went.

[Beth Shelburn]

She now says they left Latonya's house and went straight to the Crown Sterling Suites Hotel.

[Sergeant Salter]

And what time do you think you got there?

[Yolanda Chambers]

A little after 12. Cause Drake has drive real fast.

[Sergeant Salter]

So when you say a little left between.

[Beth Shelburn]

Yolanda names an arrival time that fits neatly with Hardy's murder, which was around 12:50am and then she says that Ardregas and Taforest were meeting up with some guys at the hotel to do a.

[Yolanda Chambers]

Drug deal no later than 12:15.

[Sergeant Salter]

Okay, and where did y' all come?

[Yolanda Chambers]

On the side? Not on the side, on the side. Right across from where the bank is.

[Beth Shelburn]

She says they pull up on the side of the hotel across from another car that flashes its lights at them. Inside that car, Yolanda says she sees three people, and two of them are the guy she previously identified in photos that police showed her. Omar Berry and Quintess Wilson. Yolanda says that Omar and Quintes walk over to Ardregis car and Taforest gets out to join them. Yolanda, latanya and Ardregas stay in the car, and Yolanda says this is when she sees Deputy Bill Hardy walk around the side of the building. In the final six minutes of this recording, Yolanda tells a disjointed version of events. She says Deputy Hardy meets up with this group of men in the parking lot and they huddle up, then all walk toward the front entrance of the hotel. She says they're gone for 30 to 40 minutes when Taforest, who she calls Carlos, jogs back to the cars.

[Yolanda Chambers]

So Carlos jumped in the car.

[Joyce Ford]

Man.

[Yolanda Chambers]

Come on, let's go. Let's go, let's go.

[Sergeant Salter]

Let me stop you there.

[Beth Shelburn]

Now, up until this point, Yolanda has not mentioned Hardy's murder.

[Sergeant Salter]

Okay. Now, you mentioned to me that you heard what you thought was three shots.

[Yolanda Chambers]

When we heard that, we were like. We didn't know what it was. We didn't know what was going on.

[Beth Shelburn]

This is the first time there's any mention on tape that Yolanda heard gunshots. She confirms it after Tony Richardson brings it up.

[Sergeant Salter]

So you heard those shots before he ever ran back to the car?

[Yolanda Chambers]

Yes, when they were calm. Long period of time.

[Sergeant Salter]

Okay.

[Beth Shelburn]

This version of events does not line up with what Richardson knows about the crime. Hardy was murdered at the back entrance of the hotel, not the side near the bank where Yolanda says they were parked. And definitely not the front of the hotel where she claims this group of men disappeared with Hardy.

[Sergeant Salter]

Now this is what you're telling me?

[Yolanda Chambers]

Now this is the honest guy truth.

[Sergeant Salter]

Okay? Why didn't you tell me from the start that you related?

[Yolanda Chambers]

Because I was scared. I didn't know what was going to happen. I thought she was. I didn't think. I went to. Hey, I just want. Since I had. Since I knew about it, you know, I just wanted to let you know that I had some information about it, but I didn't want you all to know how there the actual time.

[Beth Shelburn]

The recorder is turned off yet again for almost an hour. When the tape starts up again, Sergeant Salter asks the questions.

[Sergeant Salter]

Ms. Chambers, we need to clarify something about where y' all were parked at at the Crown Sterling Suites. And it's my understanding that y' all drove in to the parking lot, to the back door.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

Is that correct?

[Yolanda Chambers]

Correct.

[Beth Shelburn]

Yolanda now agrees that they were parked at the back of the hotel where Hardy was shot. There's no discussion on tape about why this detail changed. And then her story changes again. She says she didn't just hear the shots. She says she sees Deputy Hardy falling to the ground right after he shot.

[Yolanda Chambers]

I heard the first shot. Then I looked over. He had already fell. He was falling.

[Sergeant Salter]

He was falling when you saw him. Who was standing in front of him when you saw him falling?

[Yolanda Chambers]

It looked like Carlos.

[Sergeant Salter]

Did you see a gun at that time?

[Detective Tony Richardson]

You didn't?

[Sergeant Salter]

Did you hear another shot?

[Yolanda Chambers]

I heard. I heard exactly three shots.

[Sergeant Salter]

You heard three shots? Okay. Then what happened?

[Yolanda Chambers]

And then they started running.

[Sergeant Salter]

Who started running?

[Yolanda Chambers]

All of them.

[Sergeant Salter]

Okay.

[Beth Shelburn]

Sergeant Salter then prompts her to talk about what she sees when Taforest gets back into Ardregas Monte Carlo.

[Sergeant Salter]

Did he have anything on his hand that you told me?

[Yolanda Chambers]

A little blood. Blood?

[Sergeant Salter]

Did you think he was hurt?

[Yolanda Chambers]

Yeah, I thought something had happened.

[Sergeant Salter]

Did you see how he got the blood on his hands?

[Yolanda Chambers]

No, I just seen the blood. I was like, don't put it on me.

[Beth Shelburn]

Yolanda Chambers statement to police has gone from hearing Ardregas say his buddy smoked a cop to actually being at the Crown Sterling Suites when shots were fired and seeing blood dripping off to Forrest's hands.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

Did I believe everything Yolanda told me?

[Beth Shelburn]

No.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

Hell, no. Hell no. But Yolanda told a lot of truth while she was trying to hide it by telling lies.

[Beth Shelburn]

Why do you think she told a lot of truth? Like what convinced you that some of what she was telling you was truth and some wasn't?

[Detective Tony Richardson]

You know, police officers, through their knowledge, investigative skills, history, you know, they know how to put things together. So I start talking to you, but I already know in my mind, before you ever start talking, what happened, how it happened, it.

[Beth Shelburn]

After two days of on the record interviews with police, Yolanda now says that she to Forest and Ardregas, her friend latonya, along with Omar Berry and Quintess Wilson were all there at the Crown Sterling Suites when Deputy Hardy was killed. But all five people she places at the hotel deny being there. The officer who interviews latonya Henderson confronts her with Yolanda's latest story. So what she saying?

[Yolanda Chambers]

She was there and I was there. That's a lie. That's a lie. That's a shame. Okay, so Yolanda's lying. She surely is. Okay, so y' all never went to Crown Sterling. Y' all only went to Super 8.

[Beth Shelburn]

That's it.

[Sergeant Salter]

I don't know what Crown Sterling is.

[Yolanda Chambers]

Is Crown sterling my Super 8?

[Joyce Ford]

No.

[Yolanda Chambers]

Well, then I didn't go and I'm telling the truth.

[Beth Shelburn]

Police also confront Taforest with Yolanda's story.

[Sergeant Salter]

You know what I'm saying? Everything that I did, I explained it to you. Exactly how it happened. Everything except the trip to the Crown. We ain't take a trip down. Yes, you took a trip to the Crown. I'm sure we did.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

Yes, you did.

[Sergeant Salter]

I'm. Sir, I didn't go to the Crown. Oh, you went to the Crown, I hope. Crown Sterling sweep. No, sir, I ain't been to the Crown Sterling since I've been home. That's honestly God true.

[Beth Shelburn]

They interrogate him for over two and a half hours. No matter what Taforest says or how many times he states plainly that he was not there and does not know anything about the murder, investigators don't believe him.

[Sergeant Salter]

How about giving me some of the information that you just having a hard time giving me, Officer? I gave you everything that I know about Tuesday night. I don't know anything else. I. I can't make myself tell you nothing. I don't know. I told you all that I can tell you. That's all I know. I see now all I'm doing, I'm just getting. That's all I'm getting. I'm getting. I don't know who killed that man. I ain't killed that man. I gave you all that I know, so I can't give you nothing. I don't think you give us all that you know.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

I'm trying to give you all the.

[Sergeant Salter]

Information that I know that. Oh, man. Lord have mercy. I gave you. I don't know anything, Officer.

[Detective Tony Richardson]

Why?

[Sergeant Salter]

You know what I'm saying? No, you didn't. You gonna make me say I did. I did not do it, Officer. I was not deaf.

[Beth Shelburn]

From this point on, detectives rely on Yolanda to build their narrative about the murder. They'll go on to interview her over and over again, at least 25 times. And every time they talk to her, her story will change. So why did police continue to lean on this 15 year old girl even though they caught her in so many lives? And who is Yolanda Chambers? That's next time. Ear Witness is a production of Lava for Good podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one. Executive producers are Jason Flom, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardes, and me, Beth Shelburn. The investigative reporting for this series was done by me and Mara McNamara. Producers are Mara McNamara, Hannah Beale and Jackie Pauley. Kara Kornhaber is our senior producer. Britt Spangler is our sound designer. Additional story editing from Marie Sutton, fact check help from Katherine Newhan and special thanks to Taforest Johnson's legal defense team. You can follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook and Twitter VA4 Good to see behind the scenes content from our investigation, visit lavaforgood.com earwitness.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Every year people make the same fitness goal, train harder. But most fail because recovery gets ignored. Especially connective tissue that muscles depend on to grow. Frog fuel was developed by Navy SEALs and perfected by a Stanford trained scientist delivering 15 grams of nano hydrolyzed collagen protein that digests in just 15 minutes. It's science backed and ready to drink. No mixing, no sugar, no junk. This year, don't just train harder, recover smarter. Go to frogfuel.com that's frogfuel.com Stay unbreakable.

[Advertiser]

Every Lenovo is built to let them move. Let them put a chicken on a skateboard, please let them scale, copy and change it up. Let them make a purple sky with raining soccer balls incoming. Let them launch their vision to the world. Let them make Powered by Intel Core Ultra processors, Lenovo gives creatives everything they need. Lenovo.com let creatives create Lenovo Lenovo. Well, the holidays have come and gone once again. But if you've forgotten to get that special someone in your life a gift. Well, Mint Mobile is extending their holiday offer of half off unlimited wireless.

[Beth Shelburn]

So here's the idea.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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[Sergeant Salter]

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[Beth Shelburn]

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