Chapter 3 | Police Girl

Summary

Podcast Summary: Bone Valley – "Earwitness," Chapter 3 | Police Girl

Podcast: Bone Valley
Host: Lava for Good Podcasts
Episode: Chapter 3 | Police Girl
Date: February 4, 2026
Summary Author: Expert Podcast Summarizer

---

Overview

This episode, "Police Girl," investigates the tragic life and death of Yolanda Chambers, a key but vulnerable figure in the 1995 murder case of Deputy Bill Hardy in Birmingham, Alabama—a case that left Toforest Johnson on death row despite claims of innocence. Drawing on intimate interviews, legal transcripts, and law enforcement reflections, the episode unpacks how Yolanda, manipulated and pressured as a teen informant, became pivotal to wrongful convictions and later lost her life likely as a result of her continued work as a police informant. Journalist Beth Shelburne leads a deep-dive into how systemic failures, trauma, coercive policing, and neglect led to Yolanda’s destruction, and highlights broader injustices of the criminal justice system.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Reconstructing Yolanda Chambers’ Life (06:21–17:22)

• Childhood Hardships:

  • Yolanda endured profound trauma from an early age: separation from her mother due to incarceration, sexual abuse by a neighbor (14:11–14:39), frequent stints in foster care, and a suicide attempt at 14 (15:34).
  • Rosa, Yolanda’s mother, details their fractured relationship, her own guilt in “getting [Yolanda] involved” with police, and how poverty and the hope of a $20,000 reward created tragic consequences (13:49–17:22).

• Quote (Rosa Hardy, 13:52):
  "Okay, let me tell you what happened. I gotta tell you everything. Cause I'm not a liar, so I gotta tell you the truth."

2. Police Pressure and the Shifting Testimony (17:22–27:32)

• Extreme Police Interrogations:

  • Yolanda was questioned by Detective Tony Richardson at least 25 times, an unprecedented number for a witness—reflecting both her knowledge and her vulnerability (06:36–07:36).
  • Research is cited confirming child witnesses are easily influenced and more susceptible to trauma (07:36–08:12).

• Courtroom Recantation:

  • In a dramatic court hearing, Yolanda recants previous testimony under pressure from lawyers and the judge, describing police intimidation and the fear of jail (20:51–23:40).
  • Quote (Yolanda Chambers, 21:00):
    "Because the pressure. They was telling me, you know, don't you know you can go to jail for this?... So after they was putting all the pressure on me, I went on and said I was there."
  • Judge Bayhackle chooses to ignore her recantation (24:15–25:13), and the trial proceeds, illustrating deep flaws in the use of coerced youth testimony for capital prosecutions.

• Law Enforcement Justification:

  • Detective Richardson, years later, reflects on the ethics of police pressure:
    Quote (25:13):
    "The rule of an interrogation is you interrogate. And part of that is you lean on people. You put pressure on them. You want them to feel that pressure… as the old saying goes, burst a pipe so that they will start to overflowing and telling you."

• Reporter Pushback:

  • When Shelburne points out (26:15) that "the scenario [Yolanda described] was in the newspaper," Richardson insists on her unique knowledge, even as the show demonstrates the info was public, showcasing both law enforcement’s blind spots and rationalizations.

3. Aftermath and Yolanda’s Troubled Adulthood (27:32–33:50)

• Continued Vulnerability and Addiction:

  • Yolanda’s relationship with her mother further deteriorated post-testimony, as did her mental health. She became addicted to heroin and, in a desperate search for agency, began working as an informant for law enforcement (29:38–30:30).

  • Her mother said law enforcement “gave her money” but offered no protection or help for her addiction (30:30).

  • Quote (Rosa Hardy, 30:30):
    "All they wanted was what they wanted, so they just paid her, and that was. That was it. They just paid her, and that was that."

  • Despite everyone knowing Yolanda was a police informant (“police girl”), there was no attempt by law enforcement to shield her from escalating danger (31:39–32:00).

• Violent Death:

  • Yolanda was found murdered in 2009, shot execution-style, likely due to her role as an informant. The killer was never clearly identified, but suspicion fell on a violent boyfriend who later died himself (33:19–37:36).
  • Rosa and friend Alicia describe the immense toll and how, for years, police showed little interest or urgency in solving the case (37:36–42:24).

4. System Failures and Moral Reckonings (43:00–47:09)

• Systemic Disposability:

  • Advocate Callie Greer explains how “disposable” and traumatized women like Yolanda are used by everyone—the police, dealers, men on the street—and recognized only when “useful” (43:29–44:55).
  • Quote (Callie Greer, 43:29):
    "When you're out there like that, you used by the drug dealers, you're used by the men on the street, the judge, you're used by the police officers, you're used by men that molest you... and so you just used. Yeah, you're just used."

• True Regrets:

  • Detective Richardson admits regret in how Yolanda was handled; wishes more time and humanity had been extended to her:
    Quote (Tony Richardson, 45:16):
    "Yolanda chambers was a 15 year old child that I wish we would have handled at the time a little bit differently."

• Lasting Damage:

  • Yolanda repeatedly told her mother that Toforest Johnson—still on death row—was not the killer (46:45–47:02).

---

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Yolanda’s Honesty and Desperation (Court Transcript Reading):
  (21:00) "I always had to go with them like I was property of them."
  (22:17) "I felt threatened by the police. Cause they seemed like they was the ones that was against me."

• Rosa’s Regret and Grief:
  (27:41) "Looked like it just messed up our lives."

• Police Prioritization:
  Lt. Clemens, Bessemer Police:
  (40:54) "Prioritization. It was kind of low... Today's victims are the ones we deal with most."

• Systemic Failure:
  Beth Shelburne:
  (42:24) "This feels like the system letting Yolanda Chambers down one final time."

---

Important Segments and Timestamps

• Yolanda’s Backstory & Trauma: 06:36–16:32
• Initial Police Pressure & Courtroom Recantation: 17:22–24:15
• Judge’s Decision & Law Enforcement Reflection: 24:15–27:32
• Mother’s Regrets & Yolanda’s Fate: 27:32–33:50
• Friend Testimony on Informant Work: 31:09–31:39
• Details on Murder & Investigation Neglect: 33:19–42:24
• Callie Greer on Disposability: 43:00–44:55
• Police Regret/Reflection: 45:16–45:28
• Yolanda’s Consistent Insistence on the Truth: 46:45–47:09

---

Summary Tone and Delivery

The episode balances factual investigation with human empathy, often returning to raw, personal emotions of those impacted: mothers, friends, witnesses, and even law enforcement. Direct quotes from legal proceedings and family members add authenticity and immediacy, while the host’s persistent inquiries and narrative drive a tone of both sorrow and justified outrage over how the system preys on and disposes of its most vulnerable.

---

Conclusion

"Police Girl" is both an indictment of the criminal justice system’s exploitation of traumatized informants and a profound portrait of systemic neglect. The episode demonstrates how Yolanda’s life and death were shaped by relentless poverty, trauma, and institutional disregard—and that her coerced testimony probably helped convict an innocent man, leaving the true murderer unpunished and her own killing unsolved. The episode’s close leaves the listener haunted by the echo of Yolanda’s final words and the inadequacies of every agency meant to protect her.

Next Episode Preview:
A deeper look into overlooked clues and investigative failures in Deputy Hardy’s murder.

---

Transcript

[Beth Shelburne]

Hey, this is U.S. olympic gold medalist Tara Davis Woodhull.

[Mara McNamara]

And I'm U.S. paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.

[Beth Shelburne]

As athletes, our lives are about having a clear path and a team that.

[Mara McNamara]

You can absolutely trust. So when it came to getting the best mortgage, we chose PennyMac. PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA and you learn more at pennymac.com PennyMac Loan Services, LLC equal housing lender NMLS ID35953 licensed by the Department of Financial Protection and Innovation under the California Residential Mortgage Lending Act. Conditions and restrictions may apply.

[Beth Shelburne]

Do you want to find a stress free way to buy your next car? Start at CarMax and shop your way. If you want to browse with confidence.

[Mara McNamara]

Get pre qualified online with no impact.

[Beth Shelburne]

On your credit score, and shop cars within your budget. From luxury cars to family rides, CarMax.

[Mara McNamara]

Has options for almost every price range.

[Beth Shelburne]

Including more than 25,000 cars priced under $25,000. So, hey, want to get started? Just head to CarMax.com for details and get pre qualified today. Want to drive CarMax?

[Mara McNamara]

There's a fire inside you you can't ignore.

[Beth Shelburne]

Stand still. Not a chance.

[Mara McNamara]

You're a lifelong learner who's come this far.

[Beth Shelburne]

Now we are here to help you.

[Mara McNamara]

Keep going further Capella University.

[Beth Shelburne]

What can't you do?

[Mara McNamara]

Visit capella.edu to learn more. Last time on Ear Witness.

[Beth Shelburne]

Sergeant Tony Richardson, Jefferson County Sheriff's Office. I'm at the sheriff's office headquarters along with Yolanda Michelle Chambers. Yolanda was reluctant. She didn't want to talk. Okay. Now, you mentioned to me that you heard what you thought was three shots. Mm. But when we heard that, we were like. We didn't know what it was. We had to keep at her. We had to pull like Palente. Carlo jumped in. The crazy man. Come on, Jess, let's go. Let's go, let's go. You know, Yolanda, we need this. And sometimes we'd have to be stern, you know, and firm, trying to shake her, you know? Did he have anything on his hand that you told me about? Blood. Blood. Sometime we'd have to be soft. What you have already told me during the times that I have interviewed you. Is that the truth? Whatever. A word to get this information out of her. No is not the truth. No.

[Mara McNamara]

So what she saying?

[Beth Shelburne]

She was there and I was there. That's a lie. That's a lie. That's a shame. Did I believe everything Yolanda told me? No. Hell no. Hell no. But Yolanda told a lot of truth. While she was trying to hide it by telling lies.

[Mara McNamara]

What did it say again?

[Beth Shelburne]

Area of Bora Ave. And Oak street, up a dirt road toward the beginning of the power lines.

[Mara McNamara]

My producer Mara, and I are in Bessemer, a suburb west of Birmingham. This back road is remote. No houses or businesses nearby. Just undeveloped land stretching under a bright blue blue sky.

[Beth Shelburne]

I bet it was this.

[Mara McNamara]

There's a dirt path underneath a stretch of power lines that cuts through dense, overgrown shrubbery. I wonder if she how far down the dirt road she was.

[Beth Shelburne]

Yeah. Wow. It's kind of pretty back here, actually.

[Mara McNamara]

Yeah. There's nothing remarkable about this spot. It's a place you drive past and not even notice. But this is where, on Valentine's Day of 2009, some people riding four wheelers found the body of Yolanda Chambers. I'm still not really sure why I wanted to come here or what I was hoping to learn. I just felt like I needed to see it. There are no clues here about what happened to Yolanda Chambers, why she was killed, or who did it. After the investigation into Deputy Bill Hardy's murder ended, Yolanda would continue to work with police as an informant, and that ongoing contact with law enforcement may have contributed to her murder.

[Beth Shelburne]

Do you hear my menace? Laughter hides my fears.

[Mara McNamara]

Sorrow's deps are endless.

[Beth Shelburne]

In this valley of tears I want to see a revelation I want to know who you are I'm reaching out in desperation to the one who's holding the star to the one who's holding the star.

[Mara McNamara]

I'm beth shelburne. This is ear witness, chapter three, police girl.

[Beth Shelburne]

I'd like to talk about Yolanda.

[Mara McNamara]

Okay. I've talked to Detective Tony Richardson for over seven hours about this case, and he uses a certain adjective to describe Yolanda Chambers over and over again.

[Beth Shelburne]

She was street smart. You remember I said Yolanda was very streetwise, street wise. I'm telling you, if you ever met her, 15 years old, she knew more about the street than I did.

[Mara McNamara]

The dictionary definition of street smart or streetwise, is a shrewd awareness of how to survive based on living a difficult life. But Yolanda was just 15 years old. Detective Tony Richardson questioned Yolanda at least 25 times when he led the investigation into Deputy Hardy's murder. Most key witnesses in murder investigations are questioned a few times, but 25. That many police interviews is almost unheard of. And throughout these interviews, Yolanda changed her story about the night of the murder hundreds of times. Research shows that child witnesses are more easily influenced by police intimidation than adults. And Children entangled in criminal cases also face more adverse psychological consequences. But knowing all this, I still wondered what exactly was going on that made Yolanda change her story so many times. Do you get nervous, like knocking on somebody's door unannounced?

[Beth Shelburne]

I think so, yeah. Just because I don't want to, like, freak people out.

[Mara McNamara]

I know.

[Beth Shelburne]

And I know that I would feel.

[Mara McNamara]

Weird if somebody I didn't know. Mara and I went on a drive searching for the one person we knew of who could give us a fuller picture of Yolanda Chambers life. Someone who has never spoken publicly about this case. The person who got Yolanda involved with police in the first place. Hey, we're looking for Ms. Rosa hardy. Her mom.

[Beth Shelburne]

Why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet hamster Nibbles in our yard for me? Because I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires, I.

[Mara McNamara]

Knew I could trust him to bury my sweet Nibbles after his untimely end. Huh?

[Beth Shelburne]

Nibbles gone too soon. May he scurry in peace. Hey, sorry about your pet, but I just wire stuff. Nibbles would have loved you like a brother. Connecting homeowners with skilled Pros for over 30 years, Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home [e-mail] Breaking news, everybody.

[Mara McNamara]

Not everything is terrible. I repeat, not everything is terrible.

[Beth Shelburne]

The Ripple Effect with Jenna Kim Jones.

[Mara McNamara]

Is proof that the Internet, it hasn't ruined humanity entirely.

[Beth Shelburne]

Author and member of the church, Dave Butler looked at what had happened and.

[Mara McNamara]

Realized that there were other victims in.

[Beth Shelburne]

This tragedy and did something completely unexpected.

[Mara McNamara]

He set up a fundraiser for the family of the shooter who had left.

[Beth Shelburne]

Behind a wife and a child. I think what people recognized is that the 10 year old son of the shooter is also a victim. The widow is also a victim. So it is 9,500 people and a lot of them are giving $5, $10, $20.

[Mara McNamara]

It's like magic, you guys.

[Beth Shelburne]

So put down your doom scroller and pick up your faith in humanity and.

[Mara McNamara]

Join me, Jenna, for the Ripple Effect. It's a reminder that you can start a ripple that changes everything. You really can. Listen to the Ripple Effect with Jenna Kim Jones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Thy ticket lady Jennifer of Coolidge.

[Beth Shelburne]

Well, many thanks, good sir.

[Mara McNamara]

Here is my Discover card. They accept Discover at Renaissance fairs? Yeah, they do here. Discover is accepted at the places I love to shop. Get it with the times with the.

[Beth Shelburne]

Times, you're playing the loot.

[Mara McNamara]

Yeah, and it sounds pretty good, right?

[Beth Shelburne]

Discover is accepted at 99% of places.

[Mara McNamara]

That take credit cards nationwide. Based on the February 2025 Nielsen report. Can we talk to you for just a second? My name is Beth. I'm a journalist and this is Mara. And we're working on a project about Deputy Bill Hardy, and we're hoping to talk to you. We pull up to a low rise apartment complex in Huntsville, two hours north of Birmingham. Outside the first floor apartment, we see big pots of aloe vera plants and leafy elephant ears. The front door is open, and through the screen door, we see a woman wearing a blue dress sitting on an overstuffed leather couch, almost like she's waiting for us to arrive.

[Beth Shelburne]

Hey. I didn't know what was going on.

[Mara McNamara]

Hey, I'm sorry to just show up unannounced, but we didn't have a number.

[Beth Shelburne]

I understand. Because when that happened, I was living in Birmingham, and since then I lived in Cincinnati. But forgive me. You're welcome to come in here.

[Mara McNamara]

Rosa lets us into her tidy apartment. There's a painted wooden sign on the wall that says, there is always, always, always something to be thankful for. And a paper program from Yolanda's funeral sits on the coffee table next to framed family photos. Well, I appreciate you letting us in, just us showing up unannounced. But we're, like I said, working on a project about Deputy Bill Hardy's murder. And so we were just reaching out to people that knew him and. And wondered, you know, if you could share anything about him that you knew Yalls relationship.

[Beth Shelburne]

Well, I met him through his wife, Diane.

[Mara McNamara]

Even though Rosa and Deputy Bill Hardy share a last name, they aren't related. Patricia Diane Hardy is Bill Hardy's widow. Rosa sometimes refers to her as Pat, but mostly calls her Diane.

[Beth Shelburne]

Diane and all of us. We grew up together in Selma because her mom used to do our hair. My mother had three girls and three boys. And her mother, Ms. Bailey, she did our hair every two weeks, so we were friends.

[Mara McNamara]

Rosa and Patricia both eventually move to Birmingham, where Patricia marries Bill Hardy and they all remain close friends.

[Beth Shelburne]

Diane and I talked all the time on the phone, but after that happened and Yolanda was involved, she kind of shied away from me. I don't know why. You know?

[Mara McNamara]

And then how did your daughter get.

[Beth Shelburne]

Wrapped up in the case? Okay, let me tell you what happened. I gotta tell you everything. Cause I'm not a liar, so I gotta tell you the truth.

[Mara McNamara]

Rosa begins by going Way back to the first time she and Yolanda were separated when Rosa was arrested and charged with drug possession.

[Beth Shelburne]

And I ended up catching a case, going to Tuckweiler.

[Mara McNamara]

Julia Tutwiler Prison for women is the only maximum security women's prison in Alabama. Rosa pleaded guilty and was sent there for three years. During this time, eight year old Yolanda went to live with Rosa's mother in Selma. When Rosa was released in 1991, Yolanda told her that she'd been sexually abused by a neighbor.

[Beth Shelburne]

She said, this guy there used to molest her. My mom would have him to come over and help her with her homework and he molested her. So when I got back mentally, she was all messed up.

[Mara McNamara]

Yolanda was 12 years old and it.

[Beth Shelburne]

Was a rock between a hard place because my mother said it didn't happen. But I told my mother these exact words. I said I wasn't there to protect my daughter. And if she told me something happened to her, I believe it. But then after that, you know, she would run away from me a lot. After I came home from prison, she would run away. And I ended up letting the state get her because I was nervous about it. And she ended up in foster care. And when she would go to foster care, she would run away.

[Mara McNamara]

When she's 14 years old, Yolanda is hospitalized after attempting suicide and receives a few months of counseling. And then the next year, when she's 15 years old, Yolanda officially becomes a ward of the state, living full time in foster care in group homes. The state is supposed to be in charge of her care, but according to an assessment ordered by a county social worker, they don't know where she is for several months. That summer, On the night of Hardy's murder, Yolanda is staying with a friend at the apartment where Taforest Johnson and our Dragus Ford pick her up around 2 in the morning. A few hours later, police stop them at the Super 8 motel and tell them they're looking into the murder of a police officer.

[Beth Shelburne]

So when I talked to her the next day, I was employed at Adamson Ford. I was the receptionist there.

[Mara McNamara]

When Rosa gets to work that day, she reads in the newspaper that their family friend, Deputy Bill Hardy, has been shot and killed. A little while later, she gets a call from Yolanda.

[Beth Shelburne]

I said, you know, last night someone killed Bill over at the hotel. Cause he was moonlighting over there. And these were her exact words. She said, mommy, I know. Who did I say? You do?

[Mara McNamara]

Rosa says Yolanda didn't give her names. But after the call, Rosa Tells a police officer that her daughter has information about the murder.

[Beth Shelburne]

Cause I just felt like I owed that to Pat. You know, like I said, we were good friends. We weren't strangers, and we had grew up together in Selma. And I just felt like, you know, I should have. I was supposed to let somebody know sometime.

[Mara McNamara]

After talking with police, Rosa hires an attorney to pursue the $20,000 in reward money. Was she ever compensated for being?

[Beth Shelburne]

No. And I thought that after I had told them, because they did say, you know, there was some compensation. They never did give me nothing.

[Mara McNamara]

Law enforcement rewards are set up to entice people in tough financial situations, people like Rosa and Yolanda. Police say rewards are necessary to penetrate the culture of silence in communities impacted by crime. But they can also be a means to manipulate, because it's up to police to decide whether the information is valuable enough to merit the reward. That means detectives can dangle the money while they work with witnesses, but then choose to never pay it. To state the obvious, Yolanda is extremely vulnerable when detectives first bring her in for questioning. In a clinical analysis she underwent that year, a psychologist wrote that Yolanda was friendly and outgoing, but could also be verbally aggressive and manipulative. She also observed that Yolanda was attention seeking, especially with men. For over a year, detectives questioned Yolanda at different foster homes and shelters, sometimes pulling her out of class, a pattern that frustrated Yolanda because she was trying to get her ged. It seems like police were really relentless with her.

[Beth Shelburne]

They were. They were. And she would call me each time when she would be away. She said, mama, they. They coming again today. I said, for what? She said, I don't know, mama. Mm.

[Mara McNamara]

Do you think that they pressured her?

[Beth Shelburne]

Sure they did. Sure they did. What you got for us? You got to tell us something. I remember saying that. Mm. She just told me, mama, you shouldn't have even said anything. Those were her words all the time.

[Mara McNamara]

Yolanda's statements about the night Deputy Hardy was murdered lead to four people charged with capital murder, including Taforest Johnson and Ardragas Ford. But because Yolanda keeps changing her story. In the fall of 1996, Ardregas Ford's attorney, Richard Jaffe, asks for a hearing. He wants to examine Yolanda's testimony and competency as a witness. The transcript from this hearing is extraordinary. So we asked actors to read for Judge Alfred Bayhackle and Yolanda Chambers. Richard Jaffee agreed to read his own words. The hearing begins. Yolanda takes the stand and is sworn in. Richard Jaffe starts by asking her why she keeps changing her story.

[Beth Shelburne]

Were you there at the Crown Sterling? No, sir. You were not there? No, sir. What made you change your mind and. And lie and say you were there? Because the pressure. They was telling me, you know, don't you know you can go to jail for this? And that's all I was thinking. That's all I had in my mind. Jail. I don't want to go. And, you know, they was just telling me, we know you was there. You know, we can find out evidence that you was there. And just all the pressure, they was put on me. So after they was putting all the pressure on me, I went on and said I was there. I said, maybe if I go on and say I was there, maybe all the threats and everything will end about me going to jail as a juvenile.

[Mara McNamara]

At this point in time, Yolanda has testified in front of the grand jury and at multiple pretrial hearings. She has also missed one important court date. Judge Bayhackle questions her directly.

[Beth Shelburne]

At which hearing did you not show up? At the one that they had last Monday? I don't know which. Why didn't you show up? Cause. Cause I didn't want to get up there and lie. Do you feel threatened by anyone? Has anyone threatened you so that you've gone into hiding? I felt threatened by the police. Cause they seemed like they was the ones that was against me.

[Mara McNamara]

Later, Jaffe questions her about what happened when detectives stopped the tape recorder during interviews.

[Beth Shelburne]

After he, you know, somebody puts so much pressure on me. And then they get to saying, well, Yolanda, you know, you was there because such and such said this, and this person was here, and I know you was with this person. I'm gonna quite naturally go on and say whatever the person wants me to say, whether it's the truth or whether it's a lie. Whatever the person wants me to say, I'm gonna go on and say it. And there was so much stress and pressure on me, and I couldn't have my mama around when they was questioning me or my attorney. So I just went with the flow. Whatever they wanted me to say, I would say it. How do you feel about what you've done to our Dragis Ford and to Forrest Johnson? I'm sorry for doing it, but I didn't know any better. And I feel like I was. Even though I was lying, I feel like I was taken advantage of, too, because my own mother wasn't even there to be a comforter for me. Because every time they came and got me, they wouldn't let my mom, come in with me. I always had to go with them like I was property of them.

[Mara McNamara]

At the hearing, Jaffe argues that Yolanda's testimony should have put an end to the state's case.

[Beth Shelburne]

They should have dropped the case. They should have dropped the case at the point where she had already perjured herself at the preliminary hearing and at the grand jury. And now she's saying, I perjured myself. So how do you, ethically, if you're a prosecutor, take a death penalty case, even a shoplifting case to trial if all you've got is perjured testimony? How do you do that?

[Mara McNamara]

But after the hearing is over, Judge Alfred Bayhackle makes his decision. He chooses not to accept Yolanda's recantation and denies the motion to dismiss the charges. The case moves forward as if this hearing never happened. More than 25 years after this hearing, Detective Tony Richardson and I discussed this moment when Yolanda said under oath that police pressured her to change her story.

[Beth Shelburne]

The rule of an interrogation is you interrogate. And part of that interrogation is you lean on people. You put pressure on them. You want them to feel that pressure. You know, you don't threaten them or anything like that, but you want them to feel that pressure that you leaning on them. And you want that pressure, as the old saying goes, burst a pipe so that they will start to overflowing and.

[Mara McNamara]

Telling you, well, where does that leave the truth? I mean, she's clearly perjured herself somewhere because she's testified that she was there and witnessed the murder on multiple occasions. And then she testifies on the stand in court that she's made the whole thing up, and she did it because of pressure, and y' all have been coercing her.

[Beth Shelburne]

If we had been coercing her and pressuring her, and I'm sure that that happens or has happened in the past. Let's say that happened in the early 1800s. Okay? Nobody in modern age does that. Anyway, let's say that she was pressured in, coerced. Did she tell things that she couldn't have known that unless she was there? Yes.

[Mara McNamara]

Like what?

[Beth Shelburne]

Well, like, for instance, the scenario about how it happened. The scenario about how the deputy came out of the back of the hotel. We know the deputy came out of the back of the hotel. We're not telling her this. She came in and told us.

[Mara McNamara]

But that was in the newspaper.

[Beth Shelburne]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Mara McNamara]

It was in the newspaper. Hardy was killed at the back entrance of the hotel. And this was reported in the first article published the day of the murder. It was also on the news the morning of his death. A reporter gestures to the hotel's back door.

[Beth Shelburne]

Work as hard as they can on this. We are at the back door of the Crown sterling Suites where 49 year old William Hardy was found shot twice in the head. Not much. So what I'm saying is here you have Yolanda Chambers, who after all these years, from day one, has been called a liar. And I'll be the first to tell you, she is, or she was. But as an investigator, you have to sort through this. You have to figure out what's the truth in this to help build a case.

[Mara McNamara]

Throughout my conversation with Rosa Hardy, she expresses regret about involving Yolanda in Deputy Hardy's murder investigation.

[Beth Shelburne]

She resented the fact that I even mentioned it. So we didn't really communicate about it. But in the end, you know, I felt so many times, even after she died that, you know, I just had a lot to do with how she ended up. I don't know if I did the right thing by speaking up. Looked like it just messed up our lives.

[Mara McNamara]

At 17, Yolanda got pregnant and gave birth to a baby girl. Rosa says the child's father was never part of their lives. Yolanda would go on to have a second child, a son with another partner.

[Beth Shelburne]

Such a beautiful picture of her.

[Mara McNamara]

Yeah, she was a really pretty girl.

[Beth Shelburne]

She was. And she got mixed up in all kind of stuff, I tell you.

[Mara McNamara]

Rosa shows us pictures of Yolanda where she appears happy, smiling, holding her babies. In one photo, a large tattoo of a jaguar is visible on Yolanda's chest. Rosa tells us after she got Yolanda involved in this case, their relationship was never the same.

[Beth Shelburne]

And she was very mean to me, called me a bitch in front of anybody, but we were not close at all.

[Mara McNamara]

According to Rosa, the baby boy's father wanted to marry Yolanda, but he wanted her to get some sober first. By then, Yolanda had developed a debilitating dependence on heroin. To get by, Yolanda sometimes worked at a strip club in Birmingham's West End. She was also arrested several times for theft and writing bad checks. But she wasn't sent to rehab or sentenced to prison for these charges. Instead, Yolanda leveraged the one relationship where she felt she had some value. The police.

[Beth Shelburne]

I might be talking too much, but I'm going to tell you this. I found out that she was snitching on drug dealers and they were paying her. The FBI, they gave her money. They would come by the apartment and give her money. So eventually I ran across one that had come to the apartment one time, and I had told them that they needed to take care of my daughter, and they said that they would.

[Mara McNamara]

Rosa says that police were knowingly supporting Yolanda's addiction with no regard for her health or the incredible risks she was taking informing on drug dealers. My producer, Mara, spoke with Rosa over the phone about this. Do you think they were trying to protect her in any kind of way?

[Beth Shelburne]

The police or FBI? No. No, they wouldn't. No, they were not. No, they didn't care. All they wanted was what they wanted, so they just paid her, and that was. That was it. They just paid her, and that was that. And they told me that wasn't anything going to happen to her. And see, when she went missing, I called them and told them that she was missing. And they were very short with me and told me, just like this, oh, she'll show up. She just don't want her avengers. That was the reply.

[Mara McNamara]

Rosa connects us with an old friend of Yolanda's named Alicia.

[Beth Shelburne]

Hey, how y' all doing?

[Mara McNamara]

Hi. Good. How are you? Who confirms that Yolanda worked as an informant. Yolanda would sometimes crash at Alicia's house before walking to the corner where officers would pick her up.

[Beth Shelburne]

And then she got out and walked all the way down to the end of the corner. She was like, I'll be back.

[Mara McNamara]

Alicia tells us it wasn't a secret that Yolanda was informing. Do you think a lot of people knew?

[Beth Shelburne]

A lot of people knew?

[Mara McNamara]

Yes.

[Beth Shelburne]

Yes. They always call the police girl and don't talk to me.

[Mara McNamara]

Oh, really? Some people even called her police girl. But law enforcement gave Yolanda no protection, and she took no precautions.

[Beth Shelburne]

Cause, see, she was so into her bad habit, she didn't care who knew she was snitching on people. So the hit could have came from anywhere.

[Mara McNamara]

Yolanda's murder was part of a string of tragedies in Rosa's life. All three of her children died young. When Yolanda was six years old, her older sister Sabrina, died from asthma complications. And a few years after Yolanda's death, her brother Darius was killed. Darius was openly gay, an activist in Chicago. He was waiting at a bus stop when a group of men approached him and beat him to death. Media reports stated the men wanted his cell phone, But Rosa still wonders if it was a hate crime.

[Beth Shelburne]

It's devastating when you lose your kids, you know? But I have to push through it. We, you, me, we all are gonna die. What hurt is the way they left. I think about them, miss them so much. I Do I miss my kids?

[Mara McNamara]

The people who loved Yolanda hoped she could get help overcoming her addiction. Sometimes it seemed like Yolanda wanted that, too.

[Beth Shelburne]

She told me that she was sorry about the way she had d to me and Deirdre mistreated me. And then she got killed.

[Mara McNamara]

The autopsy report shows that when Yolanda was killed, she was wearing black corduroy pants, a black T shirt under a black zip up jacket and gold slip on flats. Her T shirt had a heart and a peace sign on it. She had been shot three times in the head and once in the chest. A bullet had gone through her right hand as if she'd held it up to defend herself. She was 29 years old.

[Beth Shelburne]

That she was a very troubled person and demons had took over her. And don't think I'm crazy when I say this, because there are certain such things. Even when she died, you could see the demons in her, in her casket. She was dead so bad. The girl in Selma that had her body, she said that she had been shot up with dope. She had hit straight through here with a bullet. And she begged me not to look at her. She said, please don't look at her. She said, remember her the way you knew her. But I just had to see her. And she opened her up and she let me look there.

[Mara McNamara]

We wanted to know if Yolanda's murder was connected to her relationship with police. So we filed a freedom of Information request with the FBI. Was she in fact working with them as a paid informant? As of this recording, the FBI has emailed us to say they have identified at least two 50 pages of relevant documents. But our request to read them is in a long line of other requests. We won't be able to see the documents until 2025.

[Beth Shelburne]

Why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet hamster Nibbles in our yard for me? Because I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires, I.

[Mara McNamara]

Knew I could trust him to bury my sweet Nibbles after his untimely end. Huh?

[Beth Shelburne]

Nibbles gone too soon. May he scurry in peace. Hey, sorry about your pet, but I just wire stuff. Nibbles would have loved you like a brother. Connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years. Angie, the one you trust. Define the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home [e-mail] Breaking news, everybody.

[Mara McNamara]

Not everything is terrible. I repeat, not everything is terrible.

[Beth Shelburne]

The ripple effect with Jenna Kim Jones.

[Mara McNamara]

Is proof that the Internet, it hasn't ruined humanity entirely. Byu Our currency is service and mentoring. Our currency is relationships.

[Beth Shelburne]

Our currency is people.

[Mara McNamara]

That's the kind of experiences that we want to create.

[Beth Shelburne]

We did not invent tailgates.

[Mara McNamara]

We don't have a corner on the market of good. That's really the framework for what Cougs Care became. It's like magic, you guys.

[Beth Shelburne]

So put down your doom scroller and pick up your faith in humanity and.

[Mara McNamara]

Join me, Jenna, for the Ripple Effect. It's a reminder that you can start.

[Beth Shelburne]

A ripple that changes everything.

[Mara McNamara]

You really can.

[Beth Shelburne]

The response we got was huge. The camaraderie we got was huge.

[Mara McNamara]

We had a national endorsement from Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes about our specific service project.

[Beth Shelburne]

Listen to the Ripple Effect with Jenna.

[Mara McNamara]

Kim Jones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thy ticket lady Jennifer of Coolidge.

[Beth Shelburne]

Well, many thanks, good sir.

[Mara McNamara]

Here is my Discover card. They accept Discover at Renaissance fairs?

[Beth Shelburne]

Yeah, they do here.

[Mara McNamara]

Discover is accepted at the places I love to shop. Get it with the times. With the times. You're playing the loot. Yeah, and it sounds pretty good, right?

[Beth Shelburne]

Discover is accepted at 99% of places.

[Mara McNamara]

That take credit cards nationwide, based on.

[Beth Shelburne]

The February 2025 Nielsen report.

[Mara McNamara]

So you don't know who killed your daughter?

[Beth Shelburne]

No, I don't know who killed her. But she did call me and told me that if anything had ever happened to her, this guy had threatened her.

[Mara McNamara]

This guy was Yolanda's boyfriend. Both Rosa and Yolanda's friend Alicia believe he killed Yolanda and told me their relationship was volatile. I haven't found any other evidence connecting this person to Yolanda's murder, so I'm not going to name him here, but I look up his record and find that he pleaded guilty to drug trafficking and served time in federal prison. Alicia says when she found out that Yolanda had been murdered, she figured he'd finally learned Yolanda was informing on drug dealers. I also learn this person was killed in 2015, and I don't know if police ever connected him to Yolanda's murder. Rosa says after Yolanda's funeral, she had some contact with a detective in Bessemer about her daughter's murder, but she hasn't heard anything in years.

[Beth Shelburne]

Your call has been forwarded to an automatic voice message system. At the tone, please record your message. Hey.

[Mara McNamara]

This message is for Lieutenant Clemens. My name is Beth Shelburne. I spend weeks trying to connect with Bessemer police to find out if there's anything going on with Yolanda's murder investigation. I leave messages, and finally I get Lieutenant Christian Clemens on the phone. I tell him the same thing that I said in the messages, that I'm looking into Yolanda's murder. He says he'll call me back. But after two months, Mara and I decide to just go there in person. Lieutenant Clemens, here we come.

[Beth Shelburne]

Hey. Can I help you?

[Mara McNamara]

Yeah, I'm here to see Lt. Clemens.

[Beth Shelburne]

What's your last name?

[Mara McNamara]

Shelburne. We wait in the busy lobby of the Bessemer Police Department until Lt. Clemens emerges from behind a heavy steel door. So we have both called you about this case that we were just trying to get an update on for this project that we're working on. Yolanda Michelle Chambers.

[Beth Shelburne]

Tell me a little bit more about it, because I remember it being an older case. I haven't been able to do anything on it at all.

[Mara McNamara]

I feel like I'm stuck in a loop. I keep giving this guy the same information. Yeah, we're just trying to figure out, like, why you haven't gotten back to us. Why?

[Beth Shelburne]

Oh, it's just.

[Mara McNamara]

He tells us that Yolanda's case is low on the totem pole of priorities.

[Beth Shelburne]

Prioritization. It was kind of low.

[Mara McNamara]

Why was it low?

[Beth Shelburne]

Today's victims are the ones we deal with most. You know, it's really just prioritization of cases. We have five detectives. We have 24.

[Mara McNamara]

Even though Lieutenant Clemons is perfectly polite, it seems like he's not going to spend time on this case. But we give him the information we've learned about Yolanda's murder, including the name of the possible suspect. Maybe if any evidence from Yolanda's body was preserved, police could test it and match it against this possible suspect. He served time in federal prison, so his DNA would be on record. I ask if we can look at the investigative file, and he promises to get back to me.

[Beth Shelburne]

Okay. Okay.

[Mara McNamara]

Well, thank you for your time.

[Beth Shelburne]

You're welcome. You, too.

[Mara McNamara]

A few hours later, Lt. Clemens calls and tells me that Yolanda's case is still open. He says he'll look into the evidence that's being held in a storage unit. I appreciate it. Yeah.

[Beth Shelburne]

Just so you know, my next step is to go out to our storage building where all of our old records are kept, old cases, and look for the case file on this and kind of go through it again to see what was done, what needs to be done, and go from there.

[Mara McNamara]

So I wait to hear back from Lt. Clemens, but he never calls again. This feels like the system letting Yolanda Chambers down one final time.

[Beth Shelburne]

So my name is Callie Greer.

[Mara McNamara]

For many years, Callie Grier faced the same struggles as Yolanda Chambers, like drug addiction and charged interactions with police. Callie is now an organizer and educator focused on advocating for poor people in Alabama. I asked her for some perspective on Yolanda's life, death, and her involvement with law enforcement.

[Beth Shelburne]

They find these vulnerable people that are on drugs for black, some of them white, street people, people that are on the street, unsheltered, unprotected, underserved, disposable, invisible people. When you're out there like that, you used by the drug dealers, you're used by the men on the street, the judge, you're used by the police officers, you're used by men that molest you and your family. You're used by your moms, your aunt's boyfriends. And so you just used. Yeah, you're just used. And you have no sympathy, you have no worth, no morals. You have no. None of this stuff that makes you feel human.

[Mara McNamara]

Callie says that when officers give informants attention, call them by their given name. That's powerful for people who are otherwise ignored.

[Beth Shelburne]

How somebody saw you, recognized you, they actually call my name, you know, because you have not been called that name, your name, you've been called everything else but that. Crackhead or prostitute, drug addict, convict, criminal, unpicked mama. So I see that with her.

[Mara McNamara]

Callie holds compassion for Yolanda, a grace that didn't seem to be extended to her by law enforcement or the court system. Yolanda Chambers was most valuable to law enforcement when she was traumatized. I think this is something Detective Tony Richardson realizes too.

[Beth Shelburne]

Yolanda chambers was a 15 year old child that I wish we would have handled at the time a little bit differently.

[Mara McNamara]

What do you wish you would have done differently with her?

[Beth Shelburne]

Well, I wish we would have taken more time in this whole thing, the whole case. I wish we would have taken more time. I wish that I would have taken more time with Yolanda. I wish that I wouldn't have looked at her as a streetwise girl. And I think in looking at her as a. And she was streetwise, I treated her like she was older and streetwise instead of treating her like she's 15, scared to death, don't know what to do, which way to go. And I. And I did that because I've got a police officer that's been shot.

[Mara McNamara]

In the years following Hardy's murder. And for the rest of Yolanda's life, she didn't talk with her mom much about the case, but there was one thing Rosa says Yolanda told her consistently over the years.

[Beth Shelburne]

And this is what she always said too. The one that did the time, he wasn't even the one that did it. Now she did tell me that she said he didn't even do it.

[Mara McNamara]

So Taforis Johnson is the one. He's still in prison.

[Beth Shelburne]

Uh huh. But she said he wasn't the one that did it.

[Mara McNamara]

Wow. Next time the overlooked clues and lost leads we investigate the investigation into Deputy Hardy's murder and what detectives miss while they fixate on Yolanda. Ear Witness is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number One. Executive producers are Jason Flom, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardes and me, Beth Shelburn. The investigative reporting for this series was done by me and Mara McNamara. Producers are Mara McNamara, Hannah Beal and Jackie Polley. Kara Kornhaber is our senior producer. Britt Spangler is our sound designer. Additional story editing from Marie Sutton. Fact check help from Catherine Newhan. Special thanks to Gracelyn Presswood for playing the part of Yolanda Chambers, Brett Knight for playing Judge Alfred Bayhackle, and attorney Richard Jaffe for playing himself in the courtroom scene of this episode. And special thanks to Taforest Johnson's legal defense team. You can follow the show on Instagram, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook and Twitteravor. Good. To see behind the scenes content from our investigation, visit lavaforgood.com earwitness.

[Beth Shelburne]

It never happens at a good time. The pipe bursts at midnight. The heater quits on the coldest night. Suddenly you're overwhelmed. That's when HomeServ is here for 4.99amonth. You're never alone. Just call their 24. 7 hotline and a local pro is on the way. Trusted by millions, Homeserve delivers peace of mind when you need it most. For plans Starting at just $4.99 a month, go to HomeServe.com that that's HomeServe.com not available everywhere. Most plans range between $4.99 to $11.99 a month. Your first year terms apply on covered repairs. Forget whatever plans you have this weekend.

[Mara McNamara]

Because you're staying at home and playing on spinquest, and there's never been a better time to sign up than right now.

[Beth Shelburne]

New users get $30 coin packs for just $10.

[Mara McNamara]

All the table games you love with.

[Beth Shelburne]

Hundreds of slot games and real cash Prizes. That's at spinquest.coms P I N Q U-E S T.com Spinquest is a free to play Social Casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. It's football season and now you can.

[Mara McNamara]

Get anything you need for game day delivered with Uber Eats.

[Beth Shelburne]

Well, almost.

[Mara McNamara]

Almost anything.

[Beth Shelburne]

You can't get a running back, but baby back ribs. Yes, Uber Eats official on demand food.

[Mara McNamara]

Delivery partner of the NFL.